Teen Creates Device to Track Speeding

An anonymous reader writes "A teen in Massachusetts has created a device that he hopes will help prevent traffic fatalities among teenagers. The unit plugs into a car and uses GPS to track and report on speeding — but only while the car exceeds a limit set by parents, so as to minimize invasion of the teen's privacy."

Comments

Untill...

[Spad]

Parents set limit to 5mph - track kids everywhere they go.

Re:Untill...

[discord5]

Parents set limit to 5mph - track kids everywhere they go.

Child has device rigged by friend with knowledge of electronics... Parents baffled.

Never underestimate the great lengths kids will go through to do something they're not supposed to and get away with it. In fact, adults probably'd do the same.

Re:Untill...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Parents set limit to 5mph - track kids everywhere they go."

+5 Insightful? Okay, can anybody actually imagine this happening in real life? Not only would the kids not even bother with the car, but that's frickin dangerous. Even an over-zealous parent would find this silly.

Maybe I'm just misinterpreting this post, but insightful is pretty far down on my list of adjectives for this line of reasoning.

Re:Untill...

[treeves]

Exactly. Since when do parents not have a right to know where their kids are, especially when they are paying for the car, insurance, gas, etc.?
If you want privacy, get a job, move out and get your own place. If parents would stop abdicating their role as parents and stop acting like their children's buddies/peers, the children would be much better off.

Parental Control

[triorph]

Yes because we can so trust the parents to have the teenager's interests in mind when it comes to these things. Anyway aren't there like different speed limits per area? what if a parent were to set it to 50 and you were bleeping as speeding around in the country.

Re:Parental Control

[brian.glanz]

Setting it to 50 is not necessarily to assume and report all driving above 50 as speeding. If an interested party set it to 50: they'd not be assuming the driver can never legally exceed 50, but that whenever the driver is exceeding 50 they are concerned enough to want speed data correlated with location and limit. BG

Re:Parental Control

[Schraegstrichpunkt]

Yes because we can so trust the parents to have the teenager's interests in mind when it comes to these things.

Teens are generally not responsible adults. The ones who are are capable of moving out on their own, and getting their own car.

If the parents aren't considering the teenager's interests, then that teenager is probably already screwed beyond repair, and a GPS device isn't exactly going to make the situation worse.

not perfect

[joe 155]

couldn't you just take the thing out or un-plug it? then it'd look like you never drove over the speed limit : )

More seriously this relies on the people who are driving (you can do it from 16, right?) being rational and sensible. If they were rational and sensible they wouldn't do it because it would make them look bad to their parents, but they wouldn't do that anyway because they wouldn't want to break the law and risk their lives. If the people weren't rational and sensible they would drive like an idiot anyway and not thing of the consequences (something I think is far more likely).

Further I'm not even convinced that speeding is that dangerous, drink/drug driving is far more likely to result in a fatal accident - and I have met people who do just that for fun. It's idiocy but these are just the people who you'd need to deal with...

Oh, please.

[Triv]

I don't want to know how fast my (hypothetical) kid is driving 99% of the time. It's not my business, it's really not, unless he gets hurt, hurts someone else, damages MY property or gets in trouble with the police. I don't care what he does until something happens. THAT'S when I spring into dad-mode. THAT'S when I start to ask questions and yell and devise new and cunning punishments. Until then, it's up to him what he does. Hopefully I'd've raised him smarter than to put himself and his passengers into danger, and I'll assume I did until he proves me wrong.

It's called trust. Remember that?

Triv

Re:Oh, please.

[Chaffar]

It's called trust. Remember that?

You'd trust your kids if you actually bothered educating them about what's right and what's wrong. But most parents have outsourced that function to a third entity (School/ Friends/ Neighbours/ TV/ All of the above). We don't educate our kids anymore, we give them Ritalin.

Re:Oh, please.

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Yes. It is called trust. However, trust is not something anyone should automagically get....even your kid. Trust is something that's earned. In the case of my son, he won't DRIVE if he does something I don't agree with. All of this is conditional though. Everyone has an occasional slip. Speeding tickets are just that. If he gets more then one or continues to have an issue, he's done. No monitoring needed......he won't drive until we say so. Why? Because I AM THE PARENT. So long as he lives in my house, it's my rules in and out of the house. After he leaves, he can get his privacy but not until then.

Re:Oh, please.

[Kamiza Ikioi]

As for me, it certainly is my business. They are a "kid", a child, not an adult. Parents have the right to know where, when, who, etc. A parent has the right to tell their child, for instance, that they can't leave the state or city. A parent has the right to tell their child they can't go to a party where liquor is being served or drugs are being used. A parent has the right to tell their child that they cannot speed.

I'm not saying I'd track the kid, but I will tell them to drive the speed limit, and whether they get in trouble or not, I expect them to follow my rules. Otherwise, you're telling your kid, "Hey, as long as you don't get caught, I don't care if you [insert illegal activity here]." Children need sensable boundaries along with the freedom to be themselves.

Forget kids, if I lone my car out to anyone, I have the right to know where they are going, who will be going with them, and that they are obeying all traffic laws while using MY car.

I'm all for privacy, but call me old fashioned. Children living in MY house live under MY rules. As my father told me and his father before him... you are free to do whatever you please after you move out. This may offend some younger /.r's, but a 16 year old who just got their license is certainly NOT a mature adult capable of making their own rules up. With age and maturity comes more freedom. But for a young new driver, I can't see an almost no rules environment where the one rule is "I'm not getting bailed out of jail".

Would I actually put a GPS bug in my child's car? No. I would rather buy a pre-paid cellphone and hide it somewhere in the interior of the car with a power adapter spliced to the wiring, and let my child know about it. This for safety, not privacy invasion. Car gets stolen or child comes up missing, one phone call by the police to the cell phone company will locate the car.

Also, let's not confuse child privacy with adult privacy. I find no moral or legal grounding for a child's right to privacy from their own parents. Those who say otherwise are either trying to be the "cool" parent or are not a parent. "I don't care what he does until something happens. THAT'S when I spring into dad-mode." I'm not telling you how to raise your children, because that is certainly not my business. But, since it is your "(hypothetical)" kid, I can already guess you want to be the "cool" parent. Just realize it's a little late to spring into dad-mode when they hit a telephone poll at 100mph killing their girlfriend and paralyzing themselves, because his "best bud" wants to look the other way until something bad happens. There is no "dad-mode". You are either a dad, or you are not.

That's equivalent to not telling your child to not play with the stove until they get 3rd degree burns on their hands. I'd be interested to hear your comments when you actually have a 16 year old with a license.

It's called parenting. And you haven't learned that yet.

Re:Oh, please.

[lgftsa]

Just realize it's a little late to spring into dad-mode when they hit a telephone poll at 100mph killing their girlfriend and paralyzing themselves

Killing themselves is simply evolution in action. The girlfriend is complicit in her own fate, unless she was held in the car against her will. It's the oncoming vehicles/pedestrians/etc who are innocent bystanders who you should feel sorry for.

I can't understand the hand wringing over the hoons who kill themselves, and I include the passengers in that category. If the driver is unsafe, don't be in the car.

Perhaps I have a overdeveloped sense of self-presevation, but I don't allow someone to endanger me even if they are one of the "cool crowd" or a "friend".

Re:Oh, please.

[jacquems]

It's called parenting.

I think the ultimate goal of parenting is to help your children learn how to make good decisions. The only way to do that is to let them make some and experience the logical consequences of their actions. For example, if your kid leaves his bike outside in the rain and it rusts, he gets a much clearer message about why it's important to put the bike away than if you simply tell him to put it away "because I said so". I do draw the line at safety issues, but even then I don't have iron-clad rules enforced by punishment. I let my daughter know what is the safe thing to do and why (i.e. "Your head can get hurt if you fall off the bike. Always wear a bike helmet.") and help her do it until she's ready to do it on her own.

Children also need to feel worthwhile and valued in the family. When children feel that they are worthwhile human beings, they are more likely to act with their safety in mind, and to want to please their parents. More than anything, I think the feeling that my parents cared about my well-being was what made me want to be a safe driver as a teenager. I knew that people often got hurt or killed while driving, and I did my best to make sure it wouldn't happen to me (at least not through my own fault).

Parents need to guide and advise their children - by sharing their values and stating their expectations - but in the end children need to learn to think for themselves. Hopefully by the time a child is old enough to drive, he/she will have had enough practice making good decisions about other things to also make smart choices when driving. If not, all the high-tech parental spying gadgets in the world aren't going to help.

Speed limit of the Road

[SurfSlade]

The device don't know the speed limit of the road he's on. He can go 70 mph on a 20 mph road. The device won't know.

Why only for teens?

[OscarBlock]

Maybe this should be fitted to the cars of adults - the results could be sent to their local schools to show that they are setting a good example.

Privacy?

[alzoron]

I'm assuming they're driving this car in public. Unless they're driving through their room with the door shut how could this be a violation of privacy?

The car is legally the parents responsibility. The teen is legally the parents responsibility. Kids expect so much privacy these days.

How?

[onion2k]

The device, which plugs into the electrical outlet in a car and sits on the dashboard, will monitor a car's speed only when the driver exceeds a specified limit.

Is it a magical device? Because I don't see how it can only monitor the speed of the car only when the car is speeding. It'd need to monitor the speed of the car all the time to know when it starts speeding. I can see that it might only log the GPS location of the car when the speed exceeds a certain amount .. but that's not what the article says.

spanfastic

[sporkme]

I think this is wonderful. The news is not about tracking teens, nor is it about snooping governments. This is a success story for an young engineer. This kid has seen his invention from conception, through development and prototype, all the way to investment. He has polled his resources and called upon special talents: (from TFA) "Jon's sister, Julie, 21, helped coin the device's name, and Jon's uncle, Kurt Lanza, helped with the computer programming." He has a specific goal in mind. "His program weeds out extra information from the GPS, protecting teens' privacy. Their parents can see what they're doing only if they break the rules set by the parents." IMHO Jonathan Fischer may be a Benedict Arnold to some "Speed Demon" kids, but to proponents of safe driving and to parents who have buried their children, he is a Benjamin Franklin.

Keep going, Jon. Call me if you need a good email checker-er-er.

This is appalling

[Toby The Economist]

We learn what we *do*.

What's a teenager doing when he's being monitored by his parents?

What he's doing is not being trusted. So he's learning that his parents do not trust him, and he's learning that they will forcefully impose themselves into his life to coerce his behaviour; he's learning to resent them and he's learning that speeding is only wrong because it is prohibited by parents.

You learn through mistakes

[brunes69]

People who coddle their children have them grow into misfits, because they don't know how to act in the real world. On the other hand, people who let their kids run wild have them grow to be criminals and outcasts, because the kids grow witht he notion that it doesn't matter what they do since no one cars.

You should raise a child with plenty of freedom, but make sure the child knows they will be held responsible for their own mistakes. I was given my own car when I was 16 - but I had to pay my own insurance. And I knew if I trashed the thing, or got tickets so my insurance would go up, etc - that Mommy and Daddy would *not* be bailing me out.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[D-Cypell]

I couldn't agree more. However, I think it is very important to let the reins out slowly. The jump from getting everywhere on foot (or bicycle) to driving is a huge one in terms of responsibility and freedom. This device seems to be a good way to break up this huge jump by saying, "Yes you can now spread your wings a little, but we will be checking exactly where you are spreading them until you earn the right to take the next step. I wouldn't class this as 'coddling' but more as demonstrating that certain rights have to be earned. I have known several people who killed themselves on the road within a year of getting their driving license and many more who (in my opinion) are lucky to be alive. I was often laughed at for driving at reasonable speed and following basic road rules but if my circle were going anywhere and there were a few cars to travelling in... mine was always full :).

Managing the jumps in freedom is one of the biggest parental responsibilities. This is clearly demonstrated by all the students who gain their first feeling of independance when they go to university and decide that the best thing to do would be to drink themselves to death.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[plague3106]

There's a problem with this however. You assume that slower = safer. It does not. Many localities set speed limits lower than the speed recommended by a traffic engineering study. Doing so results in an unsafe speed limit which will actually raise the chances of having an accident.

Add to the fact that many localities also now do an end run around the constitution by saying speeding is a 'civil' violation and do other things to stack the deck in their favor, you soon realize that modern speed limits have nothing to do with safety and are in fact just a way to generate revenue for the state.

To really address the safety issue we need to fix the laws and how speed limits are set. Issuing tickets does absolutely NOTHING to address safety. Nobody stops speeding because of tickets and paying the fine is supporting the arbitrary unsafe limit.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[plague3106]

You ignore the fact that you are instilling a sense of distrust in your kid. You don't really trust them, and thus they will not trust you. They'll also likely have problems trusting everyone, since if your own parents can't learn to trust you, how can you possibly trust anyone else?

If by the age of 16 you still can't trust your kid, I think you have serious problems in your relationship with them.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[GeckoX]

_giving_ a 16 year old a car is the STUPIDEST thing ANY parent could do at that point.

For SOO many reasons.

Driving a vehicle is a huge responsibility, one which most 16 year olds are not fully ready for, PARTICULARLY if they're just handed the keys...they have no concept of the repercussions. They have no respect for vehicles. They have no concept of the financial end of things. And by GIVING them a car, you take away the chance for them to learn these things.

I never had my own car until I worked my ass off long enough to buy my own, and pay for my own insurance.

I was able to borrow my parents car, on occasion, but certainly not regularly. And even then, I had to pay for my own insurance.

I've never wrecked a car. I've never been reckless with a car. My sister, my wife, her brother...all similar circumstances growing up. ALL of us have respect for vehicles.

Just about everyone I know though that was given their first car ended up totalling it in one way or the other.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[GeckoX]

There's trust, and there's trust.

Trust your 16 year old to be good, honest etc etc.

Don't trust your 16 year old to make the right decision the first time they're at a friends house, have a couple drinks with the older brother, and have their shiney new car you bought them sitting outside.

Trust must be earned, and is not a blanket that covers everything all in one go.

Re:You learn through mistakes

[toofast]

I don't think it's a sense of distrust... But then again, when I got my license to drive at 17, my
parents only very reluctantly lent me their car twice. Despite being on my best behaviour both times, they made it clear that if I wanted to drive, I would have to buy my own car.

So I got a part time job, borrowed money from Dad and bought a decent used car, and paid back every penny of my loan. And hey, the car was mine, so I was free to do as I please. Abuse it? Break it? Too bad, I had to fix it.

Despite that, I still managed to earn a college diploma and today, at 33, I have a wife, kids, 3 cars, a nice house that's paid for and a great job.

I think letting your kids drive around in a vehicle that doesn't belong to them reduces their incentive to work and pay for what they want. Has nothing to do with responsibility. You want it, earn it!

Re:You learn through mistakes

[letxa2000]

You ignore the fact that you are instilling a sense of distrust in your kid. You don't really trust them, and thus they will not trust you.

Oh, B.S. What kind of new-age shrink talk is that?

Children shouldn't be trusted to make the right decisions all the time because they're inexperienced. You can trust them as children and as good people, but that doesn't mean you let them do everything they want. Trust should be earned by children. As they demonstrate they can be trusted with more responsibility, you give them more trust in their ability to handle that responsibility.

When I got my license at 16, my parents let me start borrowing the car. Initially I had to be in by 10pm--and I'd be home each time at literally 9:59pm. Soon the curfue was extended to 11pm, then midnight (and I always was home on time), and soon I had no curfue at all. I got no tickets and was always at home on time. I demonstrated that I could handle the responsibility, and my parents acted accordingly. I never distrusted my parents--their rules, though limiting for a youngster, seemed fair. They explicitly told me at the beginning that if I demonstrated responsibility, my curfews would get later and later. And that's exactly what happened. I acted responsibly and my parents kept their word and extended (and eventually eliminated) my curfew.

This nonsense that you should automatically trust your 16-year-old child with over a ton of steel going down the road at 50mph is nonsense. It's also nonsense that if you slowly trust your children with more and more responsibility that they aren't going to trust you. Only a child that has been brought up wrong will react that way. Gaining more and more trust and responsibility is just a part of growing up, and they should learn that from an early age. At first they don't get to cross the street without holding your hand, but eventually they are allowed to cross the street as long as they look both ways. Everything in life is about learning and demonstrating what you have learned. If you, as a parent, are fair and rational with your children--both when they screw up and when they do right--your children will respect you.

As for knowing where your children go, that's just a no-brainer. Heck, even when I was 22 and still living with my parents, when I'd leave and no-one was home, I'd leave a note to tell them where I had went and about when I'd be back. My parents did the same thing. And now my wife and I always call each other to let the other know where the other is going, etc. It's not because we're "tracking" the other person, but it's so the other person doesn't worry, or does worry and have some clue as to our general whereabouts if we don't show up at the expected time. It's just common sense and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a parent knowing exactly where there child is 24/7. That doesn't mean you're listening in on their conversations, but even that is justified if you have reason to believe that your kid is getting himself into trouble.

Re:That's great, now how about one for you, dad?

[Dachannien]

If I was a teenager I would only agree to use the device if my parents agreed to put one in their vehicles as well;

Hope you like walking, then, son.

Have you raised a teenager?

[shaneh0]

I ask my son to see his report card, I don't take his word for it. If he's supposed to be home at midnight, I stay up until he gets home, I don't take his word for it. I make him keep his bedroom door open when he has his girlfriend over to "do homework."

I trust my son. I let him borrow my car. I trust him to watch his sister. I trust him to stay at home overnight by himself on occassion.

But if you think a 16 year old won't lie through his teeth to get out of trouble, you're insane. There is no question about this.

Your comments suggest to me that you're either a child yourself, or you've never raised a child yourself. Nothing personal, but if you "trust" your teenager to act like a responsible adult, you're probably making a mistake. There's a reason that 18 is the age of majority, and not 15, 16, or even 17. If you quit parenting at 16 because you think you've done a good enough job so far, you're just begging for trouble.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[drunkennewfiemidget]

Bull. It depends on the kid. At 16, I had all the freedoms in the world. I went where I wanted, I did what I wanted, and I acted as I pleased. I had earned it, and my parents knew I would behave myself.

And I did.

My son is only 5 now, but if I think I can trust him to behave himself at 16, I'll give him the freedoms that comes with it.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[Anonymous Coward]

Kissing's fine - it's the unwanted pregnancies that make mom n' dad grumpy.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[kalirion]

There's a reason that 18 is the age of majority, and not 15, 16, or even 17.

Ah, the magical switch that flips when a kid turns 18, making him a responsible adult....

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[shaneh0]

From the tone of your posts, I'm guessing you're 20-25 and don't have any children of your own. All I mean by this is that your perspective on these things changes as you raise a child.

It's about sending a message. Explaining through clearly defined rules that him having sex with his girlfriend is not responsible behavior at his age. And the bedroom door rule isn't just to prevent sex. It's also drinking, smoking cigarettes and smoking ANYTHING for that matter.

Yes, he is going to have sex if he wants to. He's human, he's a sexual being, and when you're a 16 y/o boy you're about as sexual as a being gets. He took his first playboy from my closet. I let him keep it. I took him to Walgreens when he was 15 and I made him buy a box of condoms.

What you seem to overlook is that it's about protecting his future. I don't want his dreams to be ruined because he gets his 16 year old girlfriend pregnent. And actions speak louder then words. If I say "Be responsible, don't have sex, but if you have sex, use protection" and then I let him take his gf upstairs and give them complete privacy, what message is that REALLY sending?

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[gfxguy]

I agree that arbitrary ages are not the best way to decide when someone is an adult, when they can vote, when they can drink, when they are the age of consent...

However, at 18 a "child" in no longer the legal responsibility of the parents. But there is a flip that gets switched... it's the one that says "I'll go to jail, not juvi, if I do something wrong, " and the one that says "my parents are not legally responsible for me anymore."

The only problem is that parents have to let their kids know that. "I've bailed you out of trouble so far, but now you're on your own."

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[Disavian]

Preface: sorry if I'm a little harsh. This is meant in good faith, and is not intended to be a personal attack. I am attempting to describe issues I have strong beliefs on/in.

I ask my son to see his report card, I don't take his word for it.

A wise choice. Nothing keeps him from forging it, though.

If he's supposed to be home at midnight, I stay up until he gets home, I don't take his word for it.

Kinda creepy... midnight's pretty early, too. Seriously, extend the deadline until 1AM and see what happens. Nothing out of the ordinary, I bet. He's going to have to handle staying out late when he leaves home, you might as well teach him how to do it.

I make him keep his bedroom door open when he has his girlfriend over to "do homework."

That's just stupid. If you want to make a kid hate you, that's the way to do it. Give up on trying to keep him from having sex; he's going to have it one way or another. A parent promoting abstinance is like nailing jello to the wall. Instead, make sure he (they) has (have) ready access to contraception.

I trust my son. I let him borrow my car. I trust him to watch his sister. I trust him to stay at home overnight by himself on occassion. But if you think a 16 year old won't lie through his teeth to get out of trouble, you're insane. There is no question about this.

You'll trust him with someone else's life, but you won't trust him with his own? And when was the last time you saw someone telling "the truth" just because they were an "adult"? Your defense of your actions has nothing to do with the issue at hand; that is, is he mature enough to handle the responsibilities and freedoms of being an adult. Is he mature enough to use contraception, to do his homework, and to maintain his judgement in the face of peer pressure?

Those are skills you can't teach him; you have to let him learn for himself.

Your comments suggest to me that you're either a child yourself, or you've never raised a child yourself.

Have you ever heard of an "ad hominem" attack? It's called a logical fallacy for a reason.

Nothing personal, but if you "trust" your teenager to act like a responsible adult, you're probably making a mistake.

Trusting anyone is a mistake, but we have to if we want to live like normal people.

There's a reason that 18 is the age of majority, and not 15, 16, or even 17.

Oh really? Tell me why. I honestly want to know why the lightswitch of maturity magically flips when a human has been on this rock for eighteen orbits around a small, yellow sun. Although it is tangental, I suppose you also support the drinking age of 21, and will say that is there for a reason. You would be correct-- it's there becuase federal government funds don't go to states that have drinking ages lower than that. Don't you remember how the drinking age was 18 in most states when you were a kid? If a state feels like standing up for VOTING CITIZENS against the US theocracy, they could. However, the kind of need the money more.

If you quit parenting at 16 because you think you've done a good enough job so far, you're just begging for trouble.

Yes. But the pussification of America's youth is complete; we don't let them grow up for themselves. That recent story about UGA students having coupons for booze passed out to them -- oh noes, alcohol! Grow the fark up.

In summary -- we don't let our kids "grow up" any more. We somehow got the idea that we have to "help" them, when what they really need is to be left alone, and possibly guided. This tool is a symptom of the disease that is parenting in America. If your child can't handle being alone in a room with a girl at 16, what makes you think he'll be any different at 18? Because his prefrontal cortex will be 18% larger? He may be busy with school and activities, but real maturity doesn't come from a textbook, and you know it.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[teflaime]

There's a reason that 18 is the age of majority, and not 15, 16, or even 17. What is that reason? No, really. I want to know.

It's just an arbitrary age that Americans chose at some point. Probably because our educational system at one point ended for the vast majority of us around that age. Are you going to bump the "age of majority" to 22 now that so many of us are going to college? Are you going to bump it to the early 30s because that's when the last vestiges of the deifferences between the "adolescent" and "adult" brains disappear?

The real problem with American teens, and most Americans overall, comes down to the fact that personal responsibility hasn't been a tenet of the American upbringing since Dr. Spock wrote his (in)famous book.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[TheSkyIsPurple]

I completely disagree with this - because it's a blanket statement. Some people are mature enough for intimiate relationships by the age of 16 - in that case protected (IE with a condom) sex isn't a problem.
i thought you said you taught him about condoms?

It doesn't sound like his child is in a position to have responsible sex. Condoms aren't 100% effective. They break sometimes, they aren't always kept in the proper conditions, applied properly, etc.

The kid is not living on his own, and not providing hit own way, nor I'm guessing is he prepared to do so.

Putting those two together, the kid would be exposing himself to a better than 1 in 50 chance of getting a girl pregnant in good circumstances, and having to deal with the consequences... consequences which would also affect the kid's parent as well.

It would be irresponsible to take an action for which there is an expected response that you are not capable of handling. Wouldn't it? Especially when that response directly affects the life of another.

I agree: trust your teen
But: There's a reason auto insurance rates don't drop until you're 25 though... trust your teen to lie to your or be stupid from time to time. Create an environment in which they can talk to you about their screw-ups, but do your part to ensure those screwups aren't as likely to happen also.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[letxa2000]

Your parenting attitude, my friend, is exactly why America is turning out so many screwed up kids. Thanks a lot!

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[shaneh0]

I've taught my son humility. I've taught him that he isn't always right. I've taught him to respect his elders. I've taught him that he's going to be wrong more often then he's going to be right.

You're 22 fricken years old. You're SIX YEARS OLDER then the child we're discussing here. How do you think you're AT ALL qualified to raise a 16 year old when you're 22? Give me a break, man.

You don't think I'd like to be 22 again? Of course I would. And if we were debating the finer points of picking up women at a dance club or dorm-life in america today, you'd have the upper hand. But you're just not equipped for this debate. It's outside your area of expertise.

Really, let it go. You've posted 30 comments in this thread and I haven't seen a single one modded up. Do you think all the mod's are "ageists?" Perhaps they've just recognized your posts as trolling for an argument.

It doesn't seem to me like you're mature enough to even handle slashdot, let alone raising a teenager.

I don't think you understand just what we're talking about. A little mini-man who feels like he's all grown up, who feels like he's got the world by the balls. A boy old enough to look in the mirror and see the face of a man. It's not easy today to raise a child to be a good person. There are 100 different things trying to pull him from the path that his mother and I have set him on.

This has been a fun way to waste a morning. I'll talk about my kids any chance I get. What I won't do, however, is give unsolicited parenting advice. I suggest you do the same.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[shaneh0]

"Knowledge and wisdom doesn't require first hand expirience"

This, my dear old friend, is where you're wrong. There are somethings that this applies to. I think you used AIDS as an example. You don't need to have AIDS to know that it's bad.

But parenting is not one of these things. You can't read a book on parenting and know how to be a good parent. Funny enough, it's like driving. What if I told you that I've never ACTUALLY driven, but I HAVE seen a lot of people do it. I happen to have coworkers at work who are good drives. I'm a passenger, I've been inside a car before. I've even read BOOKS about driving.

How safe would you feel getting in my car for a roadtrip?

That's what I thought.

Re:Have you raised a teenager?

[shaneh0]

Where did I learn to be a good parent?

On the job training. There is no other way.

Give. It. Up. You do not know as much about raising children as a parent does, ESPECIALLY a parent that's been a parent for 16 years. I'm really, really sorry that feel that's unfair. It's just how it is. There is NOTHING, N-O-T-H-I-N-G to prepare a person for parenthood. It's a totally different beast then ANYTHING you've ever done or ever will do. Just accept that fact and move on.

Driving isn't much like parenthood, but it is similar in one important way: You can't get good at either of them without actual experience.

I'm finding it hard to believe you're even 22. You're acting more like 14. Call it what you want, but you've got a lot of growing up to do. I work with people your age who i respect and admire. I don't think anything of the fact that you're 22. I do think something of the fact that you're 22 trying to educate a 42 year old on life. How would you feel if a 12 year old tried to educate you on the ways of the world? Would you tell him he's got some growing up to do? I think you would. Now put yourself in my shoes.

If you were really as mature and grown up as you claim we'd never have had this conversation. The only "attack" I've made against you is labeling you as immature. You've made it glaringly obvious that I was correct in my assumption. It didn't begin that way, in the beginning the only assumption I made was that you didn't have kids. I didn't claim you were immature at first ...no... you had to convince me of that.

I'd like something like it for myself

[markus_baertschi]

I'd like a device like this for myself. It would need to know the speed-limit of all roads and warn me when I'm over the limit. There could even be a speed-limiter (easily to disable, if necessary).

Not that I'm speeding a lot, but once in a while I find myself too fast because I'm not aware of the limit.

Markus

Re:What would count as "deserved" there?

[SatanicPuppy]

Yea, I've seen a lot of that stuff in my life...I had pretty much the opposite situation, which meant, of course, that I dicked around, got mediocre grades, got in trouble, ran amok, etc.

Then I hit a point where I got concerned about the rest of my life, got my crap together, and started making an effort...I was around 16 or 17 (I understand this is not common).

So I go to college, and I do fine, because I'd always had to motivate myself, and I'd always had to prioritize my time, and I'd always had freedom so it didn't go to my head, and I understood how to balance life and work...Whereas all the "good" kids who people had been held up to me as a positive example didn't perform half as well when they were out of range of supervision for the first time in their lives.

There is definitely a happy medium. You need to give your kid enough freedom so that they understand how to make their own descisions, and how to accept the consequences for those descisions, but they also need rules.

Parents don't want black boxes for themselves,

[Anonymous Coward]

but want tracking devices for their kids. If you really think you need one on your kid's car then don't let them drive. I have to share the road with your kids.

Parents can be dopes both ways

[anomaly]

Either by ignoring their kids or crushing them with the weight of monitoring and impossible expectations. Sounds like your parents were closer to the latter camp than the middle. Sorry about that.

My job as a dad is to become less and less controlling with my kids - to give them enough lattitude to make errors where the consequences are minimal. I knew a guy in HS whose uncle bought him a Corvette at 16. He totalled it, and his uncle bought him another one! DUMB!

I allow my kids as they mature to have more freedom - when they blow it with bad judgment, I discipline them to help them learn to use better judgment next time.

By the time they leave my house, they should have the skills to operate successfully in the world - personal integrity, honesty, work ethic, compassion for others, operation of basic power tools, operation of a motor vehicle, discipline about sleep, discipline about eating, conflict resolution, know the importance of relationships with others, and the ability to self-educate.

Until that time, I believe strongly in "trust, but verify." I have no issue at all with tracking a kid using my car, my gas, my insurance, living in my house. In general, I will be able to ignore the logs because I have enough RELATIONSHIP with my kids to have a pretty good idea about how trustworthy they are. If the systems I put in place to check up on them show me that my trust is misguided, then I have an opportunity to shapre their character with additional discipline.

Within the bounds of the limits I set up for them, they have complete freedom! They will (and do) get MUCH more by living within the fairly wide open spaces I define for them than they could "get away with" by lying and breaking my rules.

Finally, I'd like to point out that biologically, kids brains are not at full maturity until the early-mid twenties - specifically the part of the brain that influences reasoning and judgment is still in development at 16. This is a BIG factor in kids making good choices, and I need to protect them as they don't yet have the strong skills to navigate the rough waters they are in.

Once again, I apologize for overbearing, critical, controlling parents. They obviously didn't know what they were doing.

Respectfully,
Anomaly

You can buy stuff to do this. No news here.

[dlleigh]

Try google: http://www.google.com/search?q=gps+speed+monitor

Rental car companies have gotten into trouble for trying to fine drivers who exceed some limit.

The first teen driver monitor I saw was from Autotap and was code-named "narc on Lisa" because the inventor wanted to make sure his daughter Lisa wasn't doing anything bad. This one plugged into the car's OBDII port, monitored various vehicle parameters such as speed, ignition state and the current time, could sense if it had been disconnected and record that fact.

The "invention" in the original article is neither original nor noteworthy.