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Indian State Logs Microsoft Out
slack_prad writes "An Indian state, Kerala has chalked out a plan for migrating its high school students to free software platforms in three years. This was apparently in response to RMS's recent visit to the place. The education minister for the state said that the Free software guru Richard Stallman's visit last week had nudged the schools to discard the proprietary software altogether. 'Stallman has inspired Kerala's transition to free software on the lines of an exciting model of a Spanish province.' Initially, schools were given the option to choose whether teachers were to be trained in Linux systems or Microsoft. The option has now narrowed down to migration."
A quick google shows that Kerala has a population of 33 million people, so (depending on how many are in school) this could be a fairly big test to see how useable linux is in this sort of environment, especially with other indian states as a control. I hope RMS is not just talking it up and has some real plans in place to measure the benefits that are thought to be possible.
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my schools network is pure hell and the school is half a million quid in debt because it never works, and they refuse to hire more tech to fix it due to lack of money, ironically the staff are pro linux/mac but the stupid headteacher is a Microsoft bitch.
schools need to actually do a proper investigation into what'll actually work best rather than the idiot head teacher who's only expertise were woodshop in my case choose based on what they use at home.
I love to use and code Open Source stuff as much as the next guy, but shouldn't schools/governments be worrying about the best tool for the job instead of making blanket statements like "100% open source by 20xx"?
Why does it have to be one or the other? How about some PCs with Windows and some with Linux. Not all machines have to be Microsoft OS/Office/Outlook/etc. but at the same time why migrate all machines? I know, I know, to save money but how about saving some money (most money perhaps) migrate a good chunk of machines to Linux and teach the kids commandline, Open Office, free software and still let them use Windows as well.
Why teach kids that everything in life is just one or the other. Let's have the best of both worlds. Heck, let's throw some Macs into the mix as well.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." - Shepard Book Quoting Malcolm Reynolds
I foresee a massive discount for a certain Indian state by a certain U.S. company...
Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
All well and good. But, if there are any MS related call centers or tech centers in that state, MS should close them. Then, we'll see what happens to the fr*cking outsourced help.
Yes, I'm all for wiping out 3rd world debt, but I'm also for wiping out the economies that harm the U.S.
Go MS, take that commie's, RMS, adherents and show them what-for.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
Diversity is a good thing. Students and teachers should have SOME experience on Linux and Windows boxes. Let them make their own decision about which is truly "best for the job."
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I wonder if they're going to go for a school biased distro, although I don't suppose it will matter. Would their choice then lead to other bigger and better things such as using Linux at the firewall/router level also? I'm sure they'd want to use squid. It'd be very nice to see India become a linux house. I better brush up on my Indian though.
Why UNIX?
He appears to have no interest in the practical outcome of his evangelism, either in regards to implementation or tracking results amongst converts. His MO seems to be to come in, spout the benefits of Free Software, and immediately leave the scene before any questions of practicality arise.
That's fine if you're interested in Free Software solely as a political tool (which seems to be the case with RMS). But if you're actually interested in the long-term viability of the model, how it is interwoven with the Open Source movement, and the practical outcomes that can be used as a tool to encourage more folks to look at Free Software as an alternative, you really need hard numbers.
That's not RMS's "thing" though. Hopefully someone else will do the necessary followup.
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My old company (the OSF) had a visit from RMS once. He spent the whole week with some wierd GNU logo stuck to his forehead which I think frightened my boss. I hope, like Linux, he's more user friendly these days.
They'd have to train all their teachers and administrators in all three OSes. Many of these teachers and admins can barely manage working one type of computer and require heavy training to do that. If you're hoping they'll use these to enhance their curriculum, rather than simply teach kids how to use a computer, then that's ANOTHER whole round of training, on each OS. In fact, for effective technology use in the curriculum, both teachers and administrators need ongoing training - which is 3x as hard with 3 OSes.
Then there's the kids. With everything else they need to learn, now you have to put in 3x the computer classes. And in poorer areas, they probably don't have a computer at home to learn any of it on, it's all on the school. Yes, in the end it might increase their marketability so they can get a decent job, but how big an increase is it vs the increase from no computer skills to one OS?
It might be the ideal, but it's not very realistic. At most, having different OSes for a couple different purposes (for instance, Macs for graphic design etc) where only certain teachers need to know how to use them is probably the best most schools can do.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
Are all the people calling for diversity and suggesting that token Windows machines remain prepared to back themselves up? Are you all going to be campaigning that linux and Mac boxes be made availiable wherever Microsoft have the current monopoly? Choice is a good thing right?
GNU/Kerala?
Seriously it probably doesn't hurt that RMS looks like an Indian Sadhu with that hair of his. Congrats RMS (or RMSji)
I am originally from Kerala..the mentality of the people there is quite unique from anywhere in India. Almost totally against all forms of monopolies. It may have done lot of harm to the economy, but Keral booted out CocaCola when it allegedly did not meet the stringent quality tests. BMW was also stopped from having a factory there over working conditions.
The Govt was always receptive to Stallman - way back in 2001, I was the the capital and RMS had a seminar over there. He had put on a long robe and a CD around his head as halo and announced himself as prophet stallman - or to that effect, I dont remember.
But the crux is people at Kerala are ready to put that extra effort needed for moving on to Linux
For a second there I thought the headline read "Indiana State Logs Microsoft Out".
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
What you're actually seeing with the outsourcing trend, as well as this move towards the use of open source products, is a massive failure of the US economy.
The fact of the matter is that the US economy was unable to provide support center services at a competitive price. The industries of other nations could offer those services in a more cost-effective manner than could be done in the US. And as would be expected, the jobs moved to those countries where a greater return could be obtained.
The same goes for software. Like it or not, nations like India and China have highly-educated workfoces in the computer software and technology sectors. And for various reasons, they can produce products at a lower cost than they can be produced in America. So it's no wonder that there is a move away from the overpriced software from Microsoft, towards cheaper alternatives. When the alternatives often offer many additional benefits (increased security, decreased vulnerability to malware, better performance, greater stability, etc.) over the American software, it's only natural for the American software to be shunned. It just couldn't play the economic game well enough, and so the loser it becomes.
Schools must spend money responsibly. They need to buy what works, not what is the fashion. Linux is incredible powerful, but really good teachers are usually older and are lost when it comes to technology. Students can probably handle this well, but can the teachers? This is nice, but will it really advance the students education?
-bendodge
I gather that they have looked at this carefuly but there are other reasons as well.
...
From the article: "A sting operation by Microsoft in October 2005 had not endeared the proprietary software to PC and peripherals dealers."
Remember a while back when Microsoft tried some strong arm tactics of threatening to audit schools who ran anything but Microsoft operating systems. Well.... Payback is a bitch
Seriously though, they are switching because they see the value in FOSS and Microsoft gave then a good look at the dark side of corporate tactics.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
The schools need something more complex, it's just not working what they have at my school. Nearly any kid with half a brain about computers can get into our school computers without the security software. It takes about 2 minutes and you're in, totally unmonitored and no extra security features. If they had Linux on there, it would be much harder, because probably 1 in every 100 kids has even used a Linux operating system at my school. Mainly because "It's crap" and "My iPod doesn't work on Linux!", they're too ignorant to do any research, and will end up with a more safe computer experience. Choosing operating systems for some is the same as those people who go and buy the most expensive speakers they can find, then use a little tiny amp that puts out no power... it's a waste, they don't check the alternatives and what good other stuff will be for them. The pure fact that Microsoft is the most popular operating system in homes is the main reason they should not use it. More people understand how to abuse it, how to make it work the way they want, not the way it was meant to be used.
In Soviet Russia, Linux compiles you!
That's a familiar story - schools waste a lot of money on MS products around here because
the one making the decisions either hasn't a clue there are alternatives, or because they don't WANT
to look for them.
All kinds of organizations, public and private sector, educational, charitable, and commercial, do the same thing. Big businesses find themselves in nasty traps because they spend huge amounts of money on centralizing their office automation tools but don't bother considering what parts of the company are already using. At my last job our per-desktop costs went through the roof because we got billed for our shares of the "cheap" bulk licenses of Windows-based tools... but the alternative of enabling the open system back ends to the Lotus and other servers wasn't available, because the company had committed to a per-employee license fee whether they used them or not.
So it's a big problem in big business as well.
Kerala - the state with the highest literacy rate in India. And one of the two states with a democratically elected communist government.
Compared to the rest of India, the state is much more advanced. It's the subject of what economists call the Kerala Enigma.
I'm sure there are a lot of benefits. Kerala might be poised to become another IT hub in India. There are computer courses and classes almost EVERYWHERE in India. I remember when I visited my hometown this may when I was on R&R from Iraq - it's changed quite a bit over the past few years. The people are a lot more tech savvy and there's a LOT of interest in Open Source stuff - mainly due to cost benefits. Hopefully Malayalees look to Open Source as an alternative for M$ - it will be a good boost for Open source.
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
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Saint ignucius: http://www.gnu.org/people/saintignucius.jpg
An obvious observation here is that however they decide such a question, the decision is profoundly anti-education. Anyone with the slightest interest in education would start by rejecting the dichotomy that the only choices are Microsoft and linux. And deciding on only one means that you have no intention of allowing your students to get a real education in the subject.
Any actual educator would want their students to become familiar with many different kinds of computers. They would have a bias against Microsoft, of course, because MS systems don't permit the students to study much of the system's innards. Apple would also be fairly low on the list, since their software's inner workings are somewhat more accessible to students, but not as accessible as most of the alternatives. The list of accessible systems would rate linux highly, of course, but not a lot better than the various *BSD systems or OpenVMS. Or OpenDOS, for that matter. And the iTron system should be on the list, as the world's major open real-time system.
OTOH, I suppose those Americans and Europeans worried about a takeover of the computer industry would applaud this decision. A cohort of students who grow up knowing only linux would be nearly as damaging to India's computer industry as if they knew only MS Windows. OK; not that damaging, but damaging enough.
Of course, enough schools in America and Europe are MS-only right now that we can look forward to a general loss of dominance in computing, as schools graduate students who think that computer expertise consists of knowing how to make Word docs and Powerpoint presentations.
A real educator would more likely reject them all, and set their students to the task of building their own computer system, following the precedents of Tannenbaum and Torvalds (and the Berkeley gang). They'd have a lab with a few of each available system, for showing what has been done and asking "How could we do it better?" But they'd put the emphasis on learning by doing.
But having only linux in a school makes about as much sense as, say, having only Honda in the auto (driving and shop) classes. OTOH, having only Microsoft computers would be like having only drivers' ed classes using Honda; the "shop" classes would only read about cars but would never be permitted to open up an engine compartment or remove a dashboard.
Sorry; that's not a real education program.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Just to add. Kerala already has a presence in the open source community:
C-DIT develops Malayalam Open Source Software
Keli, a free opentype font for Malayalam (under GNU GPL).
Malayalam Font released as 'free and open' software
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
I like
cost/benefits/longevity/support
You have to take all those factors into consideration. What's the best tool? Will that tool be viable 5 years down the road, after you have committed a lot of time and money into it, or will it turn out to be an expensive white elephant, and just keep costing and costing until such a time as supporting the tool with time and money costs more than getting your original job done? MS wants you to keep the tool as the most important part, forever and ever, and keep shoveling cash their way. FOSS encourages you to use the tools now, keep using them in the future, share what you learn about it, others share with you freely, and in the meantime maybe save a lot of your cash and time and use it for something else possibly more important than just keeping the tool supplier in yachts and benzs. FOSS lets you get on with life, staying stuck to the MS tool rental store means you are their property and cash cow in perpetuity. They like to bandy about TCO figures, but seems to me you can never determine what that realistically is if you get on an endless check writing treadmill to redmond.
In this case, I think he will be successful. The mentality of Malayalees is very different compared to the rest of Kerala. They are highly politically aware - in fact, the first thing they will do every morning is read the paper - you can see it all over Kerala. They are highly involved with what goes on in the government. Also due to the fact that Communist parties are strong in Kerala, there is a socialistic trend and as a result they're not too fond of Monopolies. Recently they banned Coca Cola because of issues with contamination - they weren't passing certain tests. RMS picked a good environment to push foss.
Vivin Suresh Paliath
http://vivin.net
I like
I realise that schools have other priorities (eg. teaching reading, math, science, history, etc), and limited resources, not to mention that having computers in schools isn't always primarily to teach about computers. It's a shame, however, that children can't be trained using multiple platforms.
I feel I have a much better appreciation of computers, and feel more comfortable using them, because I appreciate the differences between things like Windows, Linux distros, Macs, Amigas, even DOS, and whatever else. (I'm sure many people here could run off a long list.) I know what I prefer to use for different tasks, and I know why I prefer it..
Restricting teaching to one OS and accustomising students to one way of doing things doesn't seem like preparing them to make their own choices at all.
that the state of West Bengal will follow suit soon. Kerala and West Bengal are ruled by the same party's government, and a decision of this level usually comes from their central politburo.
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win. -Gandhi
The purpose of this program is to provide computing services to the entire school system. Its not to turn every single student in the state of Keralla into a computer science graduate. Aside from computer science and computer engineering students, virtually NO ONE ELSE needs to be exposed to 2 at most 3 operating systems, and here you are suggesting exposure to what, 8? What purpose would be served by teaching Johnny to write an essay on OpenVMS?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Its not about what is "best for the job".
Its about software freedom.
For RMS and the Free Software movement, what's "best for the job" is not nearly as important as what helps and guarantees freedom.
RMS and people in the Free Software movement, believe that there is no room for software that takes away the freedoms of the user. And its important to teach kids in schools just that, so that they know to respect those freedoms as they grow older as well.
I think what they're talking about is gnuLinEx.
It's interesting to note that Kerala is technically India's only technically communist state (currently governed by elected representatives of the Communist Party of India), a holdover from India's stated neutrality during the Cold War, which led it to embrace parts of both sides. However, it is more like a socialist state in practice. I don't mean this as a "dis" to Kerala or RMS, just to note that Kerala is not indicative of a general trend in any way. So far Free Software has Massachusetts, the Netherlands and Kerala under its belt - all it needs is Berkeley... oh wait... ;)
The education minister for the state said that the Free software guru Richard Stallman's visit last week had nudged the schools
:-)
We get even by outsourcing our trolls (RMS) to India
Table-ized A.I.
They'll know how to use a computer for more than point and click. Then they will be overqualified for Windows Tech support. Or they'll have to increase their wages. Nah, Don't see Bill giving up more money.
A much more comprehensive article about this decision and its background context is on Newsforge.
Just to clarify, this is red dot not feather, right?
Whatever. It's easy to criticize RMS, except that his ideas have turned out to be wildly successful, and he will be long-remembered. I enjoy the benefits of OSS every day, even though it doesn't meet all my needs like he wishes it would (and so do I).
OSS!!!! Richard Stallman doesn't advocate Open Source Software!!!!!!! He runs the FREE SOFTWARE FOUNDATAION, not the OSS Foundation! And I bet you typed that on your Linux box, well I'm responded from a GNU/Linux box! Get it right!