European PS3 Launch Delayed to 2007

An anonymous reader writes "Sony has finally admitted that the November release date for the release of the PS3 is unfeasible. Specifically, it will not be available in any PAL territories until March 2007. Sony cites '(a) delay in the mass production schedule of the blue laser diode', forming a critical part of the much-maligned Blu-Ray drive. With the Xbox 360 having been released for almost 6 months in overseas markets, and the Wii looming large, can Sony afford a delay like this?" Update: 09/06 17:58 GMT by Z : Just to make sure you caught it, the announcement includes the word that the U.S. will only be getting 400,000 units at launch in November, with Japan at 100,000 units. Go Sony.

Comments

no surprise then

[bitchell]

Sony really seem to be shooting themselves in the foot lately, even if this isn't their fault.

Re:no surprise then

[boatofcar]

Consequently, the European PS3 will be be bundled with Sony's new killer app, Duke Nukem Forever.

Re:no surprise then

[choupette]

They want blu ray in their consoles, it *is* their fault. As if they hadn't learn the umd lesson.

What the heck is with Sony?

[AbRASiON]

I've got ask now, does anyone else feel that Sony are completely screwing up everything with the PS3?

No really, no troll, no Xbox fanboy'ery - seriously, what the hell is going on with Sony?

I've been following the news on these new consoles from the beggining, there's always been a fairly steady stream of rumours, proven to be true / false, comments, press releases etc, however one thing has stayed solid throughout, Sony keep having bad stuff to say.

There's the price, people speculated for ages, Sony prepared us for a high price with the "you should get a second job, because our console is so great" - the Sony fanboys responded with "they are using reverse psychology, it's going to be well priced, you'll see" (hell not just fanboys, game journalists said this too!) - then bam, 600$

Then they've got 2 units (sku's you Americans call them?) - why?! Don't copy Microsoft it was stupid of them too, it dilutes the market and makes it harder for developers to target a SINGLE stable platform, which is what console gaming and development is about! (idiots! both MS and Sony, bloody idiots!)

Then there's enforced blu-ray, which they may see as a bonus, we may or may not, depending where our loyalties lie.

Then there's the removal of rumble, then there's the loss of GTA4 as an exclusive, then there's delays to PAL regions, then there's rumours of less of them coming out at launch than suspected (it goes on!)
Then there's developer rumours "totally difficult to code for" then there's more rumours "isn't that much more powerful than 360" then there's screenshots pretty much showing it's really not that substantially better

Also the unit is quite a bit bigger than the X360!
The unit is using bluetooth, rumoured to have shitty latency for wireless controllers

On top of all the rumours and debates / speculation, every comment from Sony exec's seems like they are making it up as they go along, not really 100% solid on anything? - it sounds like a small nitpick but for goodness sakes I'm serious, I really am having trouble beleiving anything, some of the things they confirm / deny or speculate it can do seems like the person at the time is just thinking "that sounds good!" and the poor saps in engineering need to figure it out.

Case in point, E3 last year the "mock up" PS3 came with a boomerang controller, it had 2 HDMI out ports, it supported 7 controllers and had 3 network ports, it was capable of pretty much anything according to Sony.
At the time, I call them on it saying due to Microsoft surprisingly announcing the X360 much more complete than expected 1 week before E3, Sony panicked, pulled out a beta unit from the development cupboard, stuck a backplate on the empty plastic box and grabbed a beta controller to boot!
The back of the 2005 E3 model was a joke, it was like some dickhead manager was telling the illustrator designed, no no copy and paste, we want more of that port and more of this port, more ports! yeah! - 2/3 of them removed now, hummmmmmmm

You've also got Sony far less capable of making a decent unified online system like live as well (no, not an MS fanboy, see my post history, I'm just a cynic)

I do NOT WANT Microsoft running the gaming industry then nickel and diming us gamers with microtransactions and monthly / yearly fees, so I need Sony to do fairly well, but they are arrogantly riding on brand loyalty assuming they will be the best period, I feel they could be wrong.
(Yes, I'm also aware Sony would nickel and dime us like MS with microtransactions and fee's HOWEVER I firstly don't feel Sony would do it as aggressively and secondly with competition Sony can at least keep MS in check)

Either way the PS3 (in my opinion) thus far has been a shambles, a complete ballsup of epic proportions, I hope it does work out and I hope it does drop price, but at this rate who knows.

Re:What the heck is with Sony?

[lovebyte]

Maybe, just maybe, Sony has tried to innovate a bit too much? New type of processor, new type of disc drive, HD. I am pretty annoyed at Sony but compared to the Xbox360, the PS3 is much more innovative. Can't we expect delays then?
Anyway, like about everyone I know, I'll buy a Wii when it comes out and not a PS3, so this delay is not that relevant to me.

Re:What the heck is with Sony?

[Ignignot]

Come over to the wii water. It is warm. mmmmm.

Re:What the heck is with Sony?

[elrous0]

One of Sony's biggest problems (along with their seemingly insane devotion to their own proprietary formats and obsession with control) is something they've always done: early overhype. The same thing happened with the PS2. They put out so much overblown hype early on in their product announcements (making ridiculous claims like "this will be more powerful than a supercomputer" and other such bunk) that later, inevitably, when they have to pull back and announce REAL specs and features, it comes off as a disappointment.

They are nothing less than the victims of their own unrealistic promises.

-Eric

Re:What the heck is with Sony?

[AbRASiON]

What BLOWS me away is I'm actually considering the Wii the most!
ME! the wii, I'm an anti-nintendo guy, I don't like kiddy games (it's a generalisation I know there's a few normal ones) and heck I'm a tech geek, so it's underpowered for me - the controller is a gimmick and they focus primarily on party / mp games whereas I'm a single player gamer who likes storyline.

None the less! Somehow the Wii is the most interesting, it seems like they are the only console manufacturer who haven't lost their minds!

MS rushed the X360 (in my opinion) for Xmas and ended up making too many faulties plus they dropped the old Xbox 1 like a hot potato, hence treating their customers like shit.

Sony, well see my post - they are nutcases

Nintendo, well despite most of the stuff I said above they STILL sound the best overall, cheap, simple and likely fun - plus hell it'll be the cheapest so I can always re-sell it, PLUS I never owned a gamecube, so this gets me 2 consoles in one kind of.

It's a wiin wiin situation for me.

Re:What the heck is with Sony?

[AbRASiON]

It's not the delay that bothers me, it's the entire Sony news as a whole, they just sound like a flopping fish on the bank of a river, desperate to get back on track.

As for trying such advanced technology, they've been raving and ranting about this bloody Cell CPU for what 3, 4 YEARS! is it actually that good anymore, by todays standards?

Oh here's another snippet of their bullshit

Quote from shacknews.com

"One of the more unorthadox features discussed in the interview is the planned ability for PSP to serve as a remote terminal for PS3, such that PSP users could watch PS3 content and interact with a PS3 over a network. Apparently, the PS3's Cell processor is what makes this possible. "The power of the Cell will be put to use," said Kawanishi. "If you don't have this much power, this cannot be realized." It is unclear if players would actually be able to engage in PS3 gameplay remotely using a PSP. Issues such as how content would be appropriately scaled down to accomodate the lower-resolution PSP screen were not discussed"

What a load of cobblers, the feature they are discussing requires good software, it has NOTHING to do with the power of the processor in the PS3. It's these kind of marketing / pr bullshit spins which makes me take everything they say with a large serving of salt.

Re:What the heck is with Sony?

[thatguywhoiam]

What a load of cobblers, the feature they are discussing requires good software, it has NOTHING to do with the power of the processor in the PS3. It's these kind of marketing / pr bullshit spins which makes me take everything they say with a large serving of salt.

Actually you answered your own question. To down-rez, say, an HD movie, and stream it as H.264 or MPEG-4 over the air via WiFi to the PSP would require a hefty chunk of CPU, particularly the kind of DSP'ish CPU like the Cell.

As to your "WTF is with Sony lately" question...

The problem is that you have been tracking it. The consoles always launch this way. There's tons of doubletalk, trash-talk, overhype, you name it. And Sony being the undisputed 'winner' last-go-round of the consoles certainly puts them in the spotlight.

Sony has done a lot of dumb shit but I actually see them starting to turn around. They have a very radical CEO now (for Sony, anyways) but the corporation is a huge multiheaded hydra. It takes forever for big decisions to trickle down. (Not really cutting them slack here, but it is what it is.) For instance I noticed when they dropped ATRAC3, they did not replace it with another lame proprietary format. MiniDisc, retired (and it was very popular in the UK for a while, as well as pro audio field recording - hardly a failure. Ignorance to call it that.) The PSP does not play back any protected audio formats, only plain old AAC, MP3, unprotected WMA, WAV etc. All the Sony Ericsson phones I've used, same thing - no DRM. I bluetooth stuff happily back and forth with nary a complaint. So they do learn. We geeks have long memories.

Sony is not doing poorly financially, although they could be doing better, but to say they are 'in the red' is inaccurate:

Sony Computer Entertainment reported revenue of 122.5 billion yen ($1.06 billion), down from revenue of 172.8 billion yen ($1.5 billion) during Q1 2006. The division had an operating loss of 26.8 billion ($232.3m) compared to a lost of 5.9 billion yen ($51.1m) during the same quarter last year. This was largely due to lower PS2 and PSP hardware sales, as well as lower PS2 software sales. Sony shipped 2.54 million PS2s and 2.02 million PSPs during the quarter. PS2 software sales dropped to 33 million units, down from 35 million units while PSP software sales increased to 9.1 million units, up from 4.9 million units.

Now, I agree that they have seemingly made a number of tactical mistakes with the PS3; the price is off, the blu-ray is premature, and the bifurcation of the models is idiotic. But I have also watched Sony for a long time, and I know they actually perform best when their back is against the wall. You notice all the tribulations because a) you actually follow some of this and b) they have just finished a massive restructuring, right up to the CEO. So yeah, continue to beat on them, but it is foolish to write them off - its practically a zaibatsu, its not going anywhere. Personally I want to see them feel the heat from Nintendo and MS. If any one of them dominates, it has been proven over and over again that this is a bad thing for the industry, overall.

Obligatory

[Stormwatch]

[NELSON] Ha ha! [/NELSON]

Re:First Post?

[Bertie]

Why bash when they do such a fine job of looking stupid all by themselves?

I'm struggling to remember the last time they did anything right.

USA and Japan unit numbers at launch

[zyzko]

http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/North_America_ And_Japan_Also_Hit_By_PS3_Component_Crisis_10566_0 _0.htm

400 000 units for USA and 100 000 for Japan - the launch starts to sound not-so-spectacular.

Or is this clever marketing?

It is their fault

[_xeno_]

The only reason they're using Blu-ray in the PS3 is to try and take over the HD media market. So, yes, this is their fault. If the stuck with DVD which is more than adequate for next-gen gaming, they wouldn't be having this problem and the PS3 might have already launched.

But their insistance on trying to abuse a monopoly they don't actually have is causing them to become more and more of a joke and less and less likely to be even relevant this generation. If it winds up being a choice between a $300 Wii now and a $600 PS3 months from now the choice of which to buy becomes even easier than it was before.

Re:It is their fault

[MaestroSartori]

No, it's because games are starting to fill DVDs and as a game developer I can tell you we'll need a lot more space pretty soon. At least with BluRay we'll have enough space for a few years, 360 and Wii could well be hitting the limit for data-storage on disk at launch, no room to expand later without a new hardware revision.

Whether it's a wise decision to futureproof this much remains to be seen.

Re:It is their fault

[KlomDark]

"Filling DVDs you are? Size matters not. Look at Yoda. Judge him by his size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship. Better much it is your focus to be on games which to play are intricate and interesting. Filling DVDs indeed. Fill my pants, I could too. More fun would it make me? No."

Re:It is their fault

[masklinn]

No, it's because games are starting to fill DVDs and as a game developer I can tell you we'll need a lot more space pretty soon.

The only things I see filling my PC games DVDs are huge-ass textures and buttloads of crappy useless cinematics & cutscenes.

If Oblivion didn't hit anywhere near the DVD storage limit, i don't see how anyone but Square-Enix and their "15 minutes of cinematics for each 5 minutes of game" can get above...

Re:It is their fault

[elendril]

The only reason for these absurd space requirements is the tendency for game developpers to believe that including hours of cutscenes will make up for loosy gameplay and total lack of scenario.

Given that many games really fun to play take only a few megabytes, I cannot believe that any reasonnable game would require more than a DVD until some years.

Re:It is their fault

[Wind_Walker]

It's amazing, isn't it? How you, as a "game developer" are more concerned about disk space than about gameplay? How many CDs did Pac Man fill? How many times did you have to swap cartridges playing through The Legend of Zelda? Were you frustrated when you scratched the disk of your Super Mario Brothers 3 cartridge?

Gameplay has stagnated in the past 10 years - since the Playstation era. There have been no new innovations in gameplay in that time, only improved graphics. The only games which come to mind with innovative gameplay are games like Guitar Hero with its specialty hardware. Of course, Wii is looking to change all that.

Re:It is their fault

[AuMatar]

No, I want an option to turn off the announcers in Madden and similar idedas. And I want 5 minutes alone in a locked room with a baseball bat and the guy who came up witht he idea.

Re:It is their fault

[twistedsymphony]

There's a big difference between a "cut-scene" and a "pre-rendered cut-scene". A pre rendered cut-scene means that they rendered it on some machine and recorded a video of the rendered animation then shoved that video on your disc... so after you beat the last boss it plays a video and reveals the story's ending... That's great, I think that's great, you apparently think that's great, but that's not what we're suggesting go away.

I think what most people are suggesting is that we get rid of the pre-rendered part... lets do that cut-scene in real time. In the Playstation 1 days it was nice to have it pre-rendered, the console's natural graphics were crappy enough that the video offered a more detailed look at the characters and was enjoyable. At this point however the natural power of the next gen consoles can produce graphics that are just as good if not better then what pre-rendered can do.

What I mean by better is two reasons... 1 performing the cut-scene in real time using the actual game graphics you'll never see any video compression artifacts (because it's not a compressed video) and you'll never have to worry about the videos being of the wrong resolution or aspect ratio for your screen. Nothing bugs me more then when I'm playing a game in HD and then I get a little 640x480 window in the middle to watch a cut-scene, or worse if they stretched it out across the screen. The 2nd benefit to doing the cut-scene in real time is it becomes seamless with the game you're playing. Tomb Raider I think is an excellent example of this. Back on the old playstation games I'd enter the area where the boss is hiding and it would go to a cut-scene Lara would start a plot developing conversation with he boss, but something wasn't right... ah yes... see I reached the boss while wearing the unlockable alternative costume and using a sub-machine gun but the cut-scene has her wearing the stock outfit and the trademark pistols. Not to mention I entered the left door and took 5 steps and the cut scene started as if I hadn't yet entered the room. Not in Tomb Raider on the 360 all of the cut scenes are rendered in real time. So when I walk into that room with the boss it's as if the console just went on auto-pilot and started controlling Lara, no loading of the video, no miss match in character movements like some bad B movie, and she's wearing the outfit I last saw her in and holding the gun I last saw her in.

So lets recap

• Significantly Lower Space Requirements
• no video compression artifacts
• No worries about a miss match in resolution
• No worries about a miss match in aspect ratio
• localization can be done by swapping out audio streams instead of duplicate video
• No pause or hiccup between loading the game and the cut-scene
• Seamless Character movements between gameplay and cut-scene
• character looks like and is equipped exactly how they were while playing the game

About the only thing I can see where video might have a benefit is for some sort of end credit cut-scene where the location/character outfit etc. doesn't exist anywhere else in the game. Like the main character went to Disney to celebrate their victory, it might be easier to just throw that in a video instead of storing the model and textures for the one-off scene, though you'd still have to store versions in multiple resolutions, aspect ratios and languages, which can add up fast, I suppose it would depend on the length of the scene, it's still debatable. The other scenario is if the cut-scene changes locations fast and frequently, like it has someone walking on a street and cuts to someone on a plane. then it does a split between the two. But even that can be handled in real time if optimized properly considering it's a scripted event so they can load the next scene while the current one is playing without worrying about user interaction changing what happens next, so that senario is debatable as well.

So you see, the argument isn't that we should get rid of cut-scenes, just that pre-rendered cut-scenes are in a lot of ways archaic by comparison considering the graphics processing power of the next gen consoles can perform the same thing, often better, in real time.

Re:It is their fault

[Blakey Rat]

Stop wheeling out that goddamned nostalgia-inspired "games suck nowadays, when I was a kid they were good." Guess what else? You could get a hamburger for a nickel! The reason you think games were good is because BAD GAMES DO NOT GET REMEMBERED. They don't show up on top 10 of all-time lists, they don't get talked about fondly, they get forgotten. And so when you think back, you're thinking of only the best of the best.

Christ. What we need on the Internet is some kind of device that can detect nostalgia and gives you a shock whenever you start to type a grumpy grandpa-type post like the parent's.

Oh, and of course, Nintendo is going to rise and save us all from our dreary fate... that's a staple of Slashdot posts.

So basically

[Rik Sweeney]

Nothing's changed:

The PS3 was originally not going to be released in Europe until Q1 2007

It then got brought forward to November 2006

It then got put back to March 2007

Not really much of a delay in my opinion...

Can Sony afford a delay like this?

[SilentOneNCW]

Short answer: No Long answer: No, they can't afford a delay like this.

Re:Don't Worry About Sony

[AbRASiON]

I'm posting this on pure speculation as I've not investigated but AC I don't know if you're aware of this but apparently Sony is very much in the RED financially, they are betting the whole lot on the PS3 and blu-ray adoption.

There was even a large article recently on how Sony the entire corp NEEDS the PS3 to win or they are stuffed.
Assuming this is true, this means the PS3 doesn't just have to keep the gaming division up but the rest of Sony too.

The PS2 was an amazing success overall and it might be capable of that but it's dwindling now, what about the PS3, can it save Sony so they can get back on track? Who knows but based on what I've heard from them, I'm not touching that thing until it's at least PS3 revision 3 or 4 with some problems fixed and software released.

Don't start on Sony

[tygerstripes]

I was going to jump on and say "Oh oh, more bad news for Sony".

But then I thought, well... I dunno... somehow, everything is.

The Romero

[Broken scope]

This may be tired and old, but I think they are pulling a Romero, they did really well at first and then they got arrogant and it all went to hell.

Sony does it again!

[laptop006]

The best part of this is that several retailers here in Australia have been advertising pre-orders for the PS3 (notably $big_chain_store) and some of them were aiming it as a possible Christmas present for the kids, this is REALLY going to piss off any parents who were dumb enough to do so (although a pre-order for an A$1000 console is pretty high up there as it is).

Will Sony start to die now?

[erroneus]

I know, it's standard Slashdot fodder to talk about something big, important or well-known coming to an end, but I am really starting to wonder if Sony will be able to survive all of this stuff. Frankly, I don't want them to. But just off the top of my head, what does the general public know about Sony?

* Rootkit CDs
* Exploding batteries
* Delays and Failures associated with their new proprietary DVD format
* Delays and Failures resulting from the previously mentioned DVD stuff

Sony used to be widely held up as the gold standard for quality and innovative design. As far as I was concerned, Sony "invented" everything. (I know that's not true, but still.) But with all this crap going on, it would seem that the company is not unified and is pulling itself apart by having too many leaders. Solutions that would seem obvious to everyone else, Sony is just too thick-headed to make happen. For example: Put out the PS3 with a REMOVABLE DVD drive that can later me upgraded to BlueRay when it's available. They can virtually sell the thing twice! Seems pretty obvious to me and I'm just a consumer with a worthless opinion and no experience in the industry.

Now is the time...

[Bones3D_mac]

... for Nintendo to announce a Wii launch date. Speculation has placed the launch between October 2nd and November 15th, and many users are already foaming at the mouth to get a pre-order in. It's only a matter of time before Sony buckles and announces either mass-shortages on the PS3 this holiday season, assuming they even get it out the door by then.

Nintendo has a perfect opportunity here to dominate a market it's been trailing behind in for the last decade, especially with folks like those who are holding out against the XBox 360 as their next game console. But they need to act quickly on this before anymore addictive next gen titles (like Dead Rising) end up falling into Microsoft's lap.

Needless to say, I'm keeping a close eye on sites like EBGames for the instant they open the pre-order floodgates on the Wii.

Not the biggest news today

[Wind_Walker]

Surprisingly, this is NOT the biggest PS3 news today. The biggest news is that they drastically cut their expected numbers at launch in Japan and North America. And I mean drastically.

Japan: 100,000 units
North America: 400,000 units

To put that in perspective, the Nintendo DS handheld system is selling at an average of 125,000 units per week in Japan right now. If the numbers keep up, the PS3 will not even be top hardware seller on its launch week.

I can't think of a single thing Sony has done right in this launch.

My Glass Is Half Ruined By The Games Industry

[nick_davison]

It's amazing, isn't it? How you, as a "game developer" are more concerned about disk space than about gameplay?

In a discussion about format size, an observation about format size is simply an on topic discussion. It has nothing to do with priorities and nor does it imply priority.

It's kind of like saying, in a discussion about dogs getting loose, "The thought of getting bitten is a real concern for me." and having someone leap forward with, "How can you worry about being bitten when babies are dying in Africa!"

I work for a games company too. I think more capacity, more power, more everything is a good thing. If you pay attention, you'll note I didn't say add "at the expense of gameplay" or "more so than gameplay." Gameplay remains a primary concern but it doesn't stop capacity from still being a good thing as an additional way to push the genre forward.

How many CDs did Pac Man fill?

And, given that Pacman is still released semi regularly for the Gameboy, as part of "classic" collections for the PS2/Xbox, etc., how much do people still play it?

Yeah, it was a great game for its time. Yeah, for its time it sucked in far more of our time than most modern games do. But, standing against modern games like say Oblivion with its wealth of content, it captures maybe half an hour of a modern gamer's interest. Now compare it to World Of Warcraft. Even in its heyday, did its median player play for anywhere near the amount of time the median player of a modern classic plays for?

At the end of the day, whilst gameplay is core, there's a reason why most gamers, exposed to what a whole DVD full of content can be like, play older games and quickly get bored, realizing PacMan is nothing more than repetition of the same concept, requiring four or five core strategies, repeated for 255 levels.

Were you frustrated when you scratched the disk of your Super Mario Brothers 3 cartridge?

No, we were frustrated when dust got in to it and no amount of blowing would get it to work again.

Gameplay has stagnated in the past 10 years - since the Playstation era. There have been no new innovations in gameplay in that time, only improved graphics.

To name the first few the immediately come to mind...

Tomb Raider (and its clones) - a genre of gaming that didn't exist before the PS1.

Massively Multiplayer online worlds with human to human interaction on a level of accessibility that text based systems never had.

Sandbox games like the Grand Theft Auto series (that, curiously, only become possible with enough depth of content that relies on the large storage you disdain).

The only games which come to mind with innovative gameplay are games like Guitar Hero with its specialty hardware.

Unlike the classic arcade games of yore. None of which required trackballs instead of joysticks, afterburner cabinets that turned upside down, VR headsets or lightguns.

Of course, Wii is looking to change all that.

The Wii is, by definition, specialty hardware. It introduces a new class of, admittedly more reusable than many, peripheral.

If you're determined to look at a single aspect of any given argument, you can confirm your beliefs. If one only looks at numbers of children killed, guns are bad. If one only looks at numbers of crimes stopped, guns are good. Neither is that impressive of an argument to more open minded people.

Similarly, you saw a game dev comment on storage with no mention of gameplay either way and saw it simply as a confirmation of your beliefs that tech is more important to him than gameplay - despite absolutely no supporting evidence. You complain about how easy modern discs may be to scratch, ignoring how easy cartridges were to get dust in to (I for one have had far less frustration with scratched discs than I ever had with 5.25" floppies that got fingerprints on them or 16K ram packs that fell out of the back of ZX81s everytime I typed hard). You lament