Slashdot Mirror
Possible Delays for Vista in Europe
tttonyyy writes "After Microsoft was hit with fines for anti-competitive behaviour in 2004 and 2006, it seems that the launch of Vista may be delayed in Europe. Microsoft is blaming this delay on a lack of guidelines from the European Commission. The Commission denies causing any delay, declaring that the impetus is not on them but on Microsoft to produce a product that conforms to the EU competition rules." Further,
The New York Times reports "Delaying the introduction in Europe, [members of the European Parliament] said in a letter made public by Microsoft on Thursday, 'would put European companies at a competitive disadvantage with every other company around the world who does have access to these new technologies.'"
Lucky bastards!
without Aero how will we visualize/optimize our corporate paradigms?
I think you mean impetus. Editors?
Nice business ya got there... would be a shame if anything 'happened' to it...
Is it me, or is this just yet another example of MS abusing their monopoly? I see the logic, but can't understand the justification for this argument -- MS shouldn't have to comply with anti-monopoly regulations because any delay will hurt European businesses due to MS's monopoly?
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Windows Genuine Advantage.
...So they won't see it until 2025? But the rest of the world will see it in 2023?
We are the Borg...
It seems that Microsoft is at least making a superficial attempt to get things right this time around. A quick Google search shows how many delays there have already been. I doubt that having to wait a little longer will negatively impact anyone. After all, how many companies rush out and buy the latest OS in the month that it is released? I see potential problems for OEMs, but the average company waits for patches and better stability before adoption.
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
Personally, I think companies that rely exclusively on Windows are shooting themselves in the foot. These days, there are numerous technologies people can use to make portable applications, including Java, C# (yes), Python, Perl, Tcl/Tk, WxWidgets, Qt, GTK, PHP and other web technologies, etc.
Portability isn't everything, but relying on a single, unreliable vendor is lunacy.
It's amazing how many IT people I've met who have "heard" or Linux. All they've ever known is Windows. Perhaps Microsoft's failures will encourage developers to investigate alternative platforms. Windows is important, and you should support that platform, but when Windows fails you, you really need to have a backup plan.
... Microsoft is considering renaming Windows Vista to Windows Atlantis.
"would put European companies at a competitive disadvantage with every other company around the world who does have access to these new technologies."
What Dribble. Does that mean all those companies still using Windows 2000 / NT are at a competitive disadvantage with companies who got conned into upgrading to the virtually identical Windows XP?
I fail to see what competitive advantage Vista will give businesses who upgrade to it immediatly. Maybe companies could run into problems in 5 years time when compatability issues arise, but not in the short/medium term.
I don't know why it is, but whenever I read a Microsoft press release these days I seem to find myself humming "Three wheels on my wagon."
Like another few months is going to make any difference. How soon does MS imagine business will adopt Vista for goodness sake. One of my clients hasn't managed to get XP rolled out yet.
I can understand wanting to spin the situation to make it appear as though it's not their fault that there will be a delay, but are they really so naive as to believe the crap they're spouting about how not having Vista "would put European companies at a competitive disadvantage with every other company around the world who does have access to these new technologies"?
I'm sure that there are a few businesses out there that still run Windows 2000 on their machines, and that even after Vista comes out, some companies will take several years before migrating away from XP. About the only way I could consider Microsoft's statement valid is if you consider the new technologies found in the new boxes that will be needed to run Vista, because the current hardware used might not be up to snuff.
Sounds familiar to European PS3 Launch Delayed to 2007
Microsoft really seem to be shooting themselves in the foot lately, even if this isn't their fault.
Consequently, the European Vista will be be bundled with Microsoft's new killer app, Duke Nukem Forever.
One of Microsoft's biggest problems (along with their seemingly insane devotion to their own proprietary formats and obsession with control) is something they've always done: early overhype. The same thing happened with the Windows XP. They put out so much overblown hype early on in their product announcements (making ridiculous claims like "this will be more powerful than a supercomputer" and other such bunk) that later, inevitably, when they have to pull back and announce REAL specs and features, it comes off as a disappointment.
They are nothing less than the victims of their own unrealistic promises.
-Eric
Sony for Microsoft
Vista for PS3
And so on...
My city: Barcelona.
"the launch of Vista may be delayed in Europe"
Why must Microsoft copy everything that Sony does?!
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
We get something that MAY be out of Beta testing, and some other region gets the problems
On the one hand, yes, Microsoft evil. We know. Monopoly bad.
But I can see their point. If the EU commission can go and levy arbitrary fines if it doesn't like what Microsoft does then I can see Microsoft wanting guidance before releasing a new product. I don't think the EU Commission has treated Microsoft fairly - their dealings seem to be tinged with a bit of anti-Americanism that seems to be all the rage in Europe of late.
So I say go ahead, Microsoft, take your ball and go home (or at least don't let them play with it a little while) so that these power-tripping politicians can understand the consquences on their actions.
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
I wonder how business in europe will manage to live without the new important features in windows vista!g horn_RSoD.png comes to mind as one of the more important features we need to get to market asap!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/22/Lon
The PS3 is late now this
Poor poor Europe
Is that microsoft is blackmailing governments now. What might europe do in retaliation???
Is it me, or is this just yet another example of MS abusing their monopoly? I see the logic, but can't understand the justification for this argument -- MS shouldn't have to comply with anti-monopoly regulations because any delay will hurt European businesses due to MS's monopoly?
Yes, the ultimate harm of monopoly is exclusion. Competitors are not allowed to offer better goods and services and the monopolist is able to deny service to any they please.
This time, it's pure bullshit and won't work. No business that waits for Vista will be at a competitive disavantage. It's the businesses that adopt yet another secret format for communications that will have problems. It is incredible that M$ tries to spin abuse of formats into some kind of advantage. It took years for XP to gain any significant business presence and to this day, many if not most businesses use w2k. Sensible companies store their publications in PDF that can come from any source. We've all been through this song and dance before and most are sick of it. The massive inefficiency of the M$ upgrade train is the motivator for mass migration. Vista is going to flop when people see that it's only feature is buggy access to ancient non free music and movies. Superior alternatives exist and have been adopted by many, such as Lowes, IBM, Chrysler and countless small businesses and individuals. The Microsoft monopoly is cracked and will soon shatter.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Slashdot sounds like those hockey commentary people...
"Ballmer's got the CD and he's headed for the RTM... he shoots, OHH! A bug shuts him down!!! Oh that crowd is really upset"
"Well Tim, that was a close one, he's oh for 10 now, he really needs a break"
"Now Gentoo has control, passes it to Fedora, passes it to SuSE, passes it to Ubuntu, passes it back to SuSE... they seem to have their passing game working really well"
"Well Tim, they have heart but only a small group of the audience seems to be cheering for them"
Sorry.
Oz
Why does Microsoft have to copy everything Sony does?
Summation 2
Well, if we consider that about 40% of computer illegal software, they can delay all they want - they'll get it.
And as for those of us in Europe who like genue software, it's a ":(("
Europeans are so lucky. They have a built-in excuse to skip the initital wave of problems and go right to SP1.
Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
Are aware of the expensive code assurance programs M$ sold a few year back? Promissing to release all sorts of feature filled improvements in the near future since 2002, M$ suckered lots of big companies into buying software that had yet to be written instead of going for less expensive options that were available at the time. Vista has taken six years and has dropped most of the new features. Compared to free software, Vista is feature poor.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Oh boy, these guys in Redmond...do they actually believe their flagship product is providing competitive advantages? Someone needs a reality check. Clearly no version of Windows since, shall we say, 2k have given companies any form for cost savings, productivity improvements or the like. The only European companies in competitive disadvantage is the IT implementors, who might have to wait a bit in getting hold of their upgrade service fees. But then again, show me a successful corporation who installs OS'es imediately after releases. Way too big a risk! At least for the banks it's a cycle of easily 1-2 years delay before they are going to install it company wide. And who knows, by then we might even be able to install OS X on non-Apple boxes. As a European, I feel rather relieved!
And all those removed Vista features got scraped because of the European Commission.....
put European companies at a competitive disadvantage with every other company around the world who does have access to these new technologies.
It could also put them at a competitive advantage by using stable technologies while their foreign competitors play with new thingies.
By the time it gets introduced in Europe, the others have already found the first bugs and Microsoft may have fixed some of them.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Most companies would not upgrade to Vista Desktop/Server_whatever_it_will_be_named within the first few years after its release, unless MS threatens them by cutting Windows XP/2003 support sooner than expected.
It's a little annoying for those of us in Europe who like PC gaming, and were looking forward to DirectX 10. I was going to upgrade my whole system (move from AGP to PCIe, DDR to DDR2, Single Core to Dual Core) once Vista was ready to ship. I accept all the arguments about how Microsoft is an evil monopolist etc. but does that get me playing Crysis on the highest resolution with all the bells and whistles running? Presumably it's not going to make much difference, though, given that Europeans will just be able to buy it direct from the States, I guess.
But I sure cant find em...
MS: I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.
EU: Thats the Display Department.
MS: With a torch.
EU: The lights had probably gone.
MS: So had the stairs.
EU: But you found the plans, didnt you?
MS: Oh yes, they were on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying Beware of the leopard.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
...is the same as Microsofts:
if you don't start immediately, after 5 years you'd be only at 50% completed instead of 80 or 90% like your competitors?
And your point is...? I know of no busines in existence in the world today that states in its mission statement that "we shall strive to complete a softweare upgrade rollout faster than any of our competitors"--there is no point to have a goal of getting all employees upgraded to the latest OS before everyone else. Businesses strive to offer the best quality of product or service, or to be the lowest-cost supplier, or be among the best employers, or be first to market with a new invention. These goals have little to do with what OS a company runs on their computers.
I know, it certainly could put a company at a disadvantage if it was still running ancient VAX machinesand had DEC VT green-screen termials and '386 PCs running Windows 3.1 for Workgroups on people's desks. However there has to be a balance--a company that hastily rolls out a new release of software just so it can get there first is at an equal disadvantage as the company that limps alog on ancient unsupported software and hardware. In fact, upgrading too quickly can be MORE costly to a business than waiting too long. This is especially the case with closed, commercial software because of added licensing costs.
Here is what I found was the case with nearly ALL the companies who upgraded their Windows boxes to XP before SP1, or 2003 before it was ready: the licensing costs were at their highest at initial release, proper drivers were not available for all their hardware resulting in unanticipated hardware upgrade costs, they got smacked by extra vulnerabilities or bugs not present in older software, and important applications broke upon upgrade (in particular, custom applications, ERP/EAM/other enterprise apps, industrial software like HMIs PLC programming software and communications drivers and so on).
I'd have to say MS has it backwards--the EU is helping enforce responsible behavior on its industries by delaying early adoption of unproven software, so it has the ADVANTAGE over the rest of the world. The best way to upgrade is to phase in new software gradually, for example as hardware is replaced, and periodically evaluate the benefits of upgrading. Quite often, there are no compelling benefits at all until the vendor starts dropping support. For example, only within the last year has it been justifiable to upgrade Win2k machines to XP just for the sake of upgrading--reason being is that some important new software and hardware support will not be available (things like Blu-Ray and HD-DVD media, and IE7, and limited support for SQL 2005 on win2k servers). For most companies I've dealt with, XP was not at all considered until SP1 was released, and even then the upgrade strategy was to phase it in as new machines came online.
I think MS is just showing a bit of desperation in trying to get the Windows upgrade cycle back on track, as well as frustration at being reigned in by anti-trust regulations. I don't even think members of EU parliament are stupid enough to swallow such tripe.
In this world of cheap international shipping, instantaneous global communication, and simple payment systems, how is it even possible to release a product into one market and not have it reach another?
If they release in the USA, and people in Europe want it, what stops them from simply mail ordering from some US retailer, or for that matter, simply travelling to the US, picking it up in a store, and going home?
Also, won't Vista be on MSDN? Just get a MSDN subscription. Problem solved.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
One thing I've learned from reading slashdot besides it being a hangout for irrational bashers - it's full of idiots that can't read. Funny how this "Linux is superior and we are smarter than everyone else because we know how great it is" exposes so much stupidity.
Take 30 seconds and follow the link to read the actual original quote. It's members of British Parliament saying in a letter that denying EU companies access to Vista will put them at a competitive disadvantage.
THIS IS NOT Microsoft trying to blackmail the EU. As much as you want to think it is the "drug pusher" threatening to withold the drugs from their addicted users, it is the drug addicts (the EU companies that use MS software) that are complaining they do not want their fix delayed by the EU bureaucrats.
No matter which site of the issue you are a fanboy, at least get the facts straight!
These are pure lies by Microsoft to gain some PR-advantage against the European Union. The EU has issued a statement that the release-date of Vista is 100% in the hands of Microsoft and that it does not intend to interfere(see http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/77945 for a german news-post about it). The EU had issued in january a questionaire to MS about the conformity of Vista to the several sentences MS got because of it's monopoly. MS answered LAST WEEK. This is not different to the US-market: MS has to conform to certain rules because of several past lawsuits. MS knew this from the start. If it does not conform, it is 100% MS's fault.
I think I need to go scrub the inside of my brain now...
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
so I couldn't care less, more chance to convince my users to go linux
Over what? Those rival companies running Linux or BSD? Pull the other one!
No company worth anything would be putting Vista into production use until at least SP1 arrives. So who gives a toss if it is delayed a bit. If a company really, really wants Vista then they can buy it over the internet. If for some reason M$ stops resellers sending it to Europe then there would be many law suits heading their way. If this were the case, then any company who legally wanted to get their hands on a copy only has to send someone over the pond and walk into any Best Buy and purchase one for hard cash.
In this day and age of the Internet ( after all, it was created by BillyG wasn't it?) they can't stop people getting their hands on it if they want it.
Personally,
I'm not going to even look at it until at least SP1 comes out and even then we may wait longer. XP + Server 2003 are doing thier jobs and frankly, we don't feel any need to spend lots of Euros at this time going over to Vista.
Finally,
I wonder what fantastic technology is in Vista that companies will be missing out on by the delay? I Imagine with all the H/W requirements, Aero won't be high on that list. DRM? Pah FUD.
The whole schebang is marketing FUD.
Ignore them.
Wholy crap! The arrogance. They got nailed, and nailed reasonably hard for their anti-competitive monopolished behaviour by the EU (something the US failed to follow through with when Bush took over), and now they're coming up with excuses for punishing Europe for it? Wholy crap. If this isn't a "don't fuck with us ever again" message, I don't know what is. I would say the EU shouldn't simply play dumb ("we never caused a delay") but make it clear what the guidelines are (which I'm sure they already have), and if MS won't deliver, then freakin' ban their products in Europe. This is sheer insanity that MS would try and pull this after the spanking they got. They are truly like an unruly toddler that wants it all and won't learn its lesson.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
It's here: http://malfy.org/
Trying to care, trying to care, trying to care ... Sorry it ain't happenin'. Come back when there is something that actually matters.
Oh noes!!! Then how will I ever get this dreaded Ubuntu Linux off my computer???! Evil, evil EU for delaying Windows hasta la Vista in Europe!!
heh..
I wonder how many companies realistically are planning on rolling out Vista within even two years, though? Given that Vista isn't delayed even beyond the given release estimates?
meh!
While I'm sure British politicians are completely above taking money from people to say things, given my experience with US politicians, I take their letter with a grain of salt.
Brought to you by: "Al"toids - the curiously weird mint.
They should step more into real world and offer incetivces like studio time and cameras to their directors who are allowed to upload full length videos. The quality could get better and they could partner with other sites.
You're right on, I can just see the ad: With Microsoft Vista(tm) 3D graphics, People-ready companies can turn user information into valuable enterprise knowledge.
really start to love our EU Overlords!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Unlike our competitors, our business runs on Linux, and we rely on Microsoft to cause chaos and cripple those guys. I just don't know how we'll cope without the regular massive defection of their customers to us.
How the hell did you do this without using the word "solutions"? Me, I'm waiting for biz types to start saying "solutionize".
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
LocalisationL Some of Europe doesn't speak English, does not use US keyboards, or store their dates in the wrong order. Luckily, Localisation is done much better by FOSS anyway.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
"Delaying the introduction in Europe, [members of the European Parliament] said in a letter made public by Microsoft on Thursday, 'would put European companies at a competitive disadvantage with every other company around the world who does have access to these new technologies."
I am reminded of Arthur C. Clarke's story, "Superiority," in which technologically superior space empire loses to its technologically backward enemy... because it keeps rolling out fantastic new military superweapons which, unfortunately, aren't quite fully perfected. Each superweapon has its little glitches, small things really and easily fixed--but which initially make them ineffective in the field. Because the boffins keep rolling out improvements, the weapons actually being used are always in that initial, ineffective stage.
I think it is very likely it is the corporations and nations that deploy Vista within its first year of introduction will, in fact, put itself at a competitive disadvantage with those that wait for Service Pack 1 or 2.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
europe - get over it.
either deal with it, or switch to linux. nacyboys!
If, in fact it provides no such advantage, then such an argument will probably fail in court.
So, yes, I believe it gives a competitive advantage. If it does not, that is something that Microsoft might end up having to prove in a court of law.
The people who failure to release will most damage is EU based software developers. As the existing rulings against MS were by and large to prevent MS damaging EU software developers, I would expect the commission to be looking closely at the above question. MS would have to demonstrate that there was no need to configure or adapt third party software for Vista in order to prove no damage. That would imply no new features because if there are new features but they are impossible to use in third party software, they are most likely caught back re-offending under the original proved complaint.
Squirrel!
Exactly! Mod parent up!
Oh please delay it!!! Indefinately!!!! Promise you will delay the release of Vista!!
Let's see. MS was anti-competitive with Windows 3.0, Win2000, WinME, WinXp, and now--I'm shocked, shocked!--with Vista. And the Europeans expected exactly what? Why don't the governments just switch over to Linux? Ubuntu for instance. They could help everyone by getting usability kinks worked out, write any specialized software they need (which they probably have to do now anyway), and just generally Get Over It. Guess who'll be at a competitive disadvantage then.
First:
/American
"Delaying the introduction in Europe [...] would put European companies at a competitive disadvantage with every other company around the world who does have access to these new technologies.'"
Awww. Cry, Baby, Cryyyy! Look, whether it was justified or not, the fact remains that they did everything possible to make life difficult for MS. I know some will say that it was a slap on the wrist, others will say that what the EU commission did was unjustified. The fact remains that MS was singled out and (very) publicly sanctioned. I think this is MS's way of poking back, and reminding the EU that they aren't, in fact, required to sell their software in Europe. Maybe now the EU understands that MS can bite back, too.
Second, maybe the EU will recognize the importance of shifting away from MS software, and possibly even offer incentives of some sort. If a single foreign company can put every EU company at a competitive disadvantage, willfully or otherwise, maybe it's time to seriously re-evaluate your dependencies. Linux may be behind in some specific areas, but if the EU were to fund serious development to bring it up to speed, that gap would close in a hurry, and soon those using MS products would be the ones at a "competitive disadvantage" for every checkbox on the scorecard.
So, I repeat: Cry, Baby, Cryyyy! When you're done, get off your asses and fund development of a viable alternative. Solve your own problems, and stop your frikkin whining. It's not like you're strapped for cash on the scale of a moderate corporate IT development project.
that quote about not being able to get the newest version of windows putting companies at a competitive disadvantage is the funniest thing I've heard all week! the only possible advantage I can think of from a corporate viewpoint to upgrading to a newer windows is getting more security updates. what new features in windows do they think are going to give companies an advantage?
By your logic, any "positive" statement about Linux should also be disregarded because it is probably not a real fanboy but someone taking a bribe? C'mon, you can't have it both ways!
Microsoft in essence is saying that they will hold the EU to ransom unless the commission drops their legal proceedings. Its typical Microsoft intimidation. The commission is right in saying that the onus is on Microsoft to produce software that complies with legislation.
Imagine I wrote software which directly contravenes EU anti-competition laws and I know it. Its ridiculous to then ask for further guidance.
They just ran out of blue LEDs ;)
In other unrelated news, Linus Torvalds annouced today that wine is to be integrated in the the main source tree of the Linux kernel for only the Sun SPARC platform.
As a Monoply, Microsoft has special rules that apply to it. Rules that don't apply to Apple, or any Linux distributrion, or anyone else but a Monopoly.
It's perfectly "legal" for Apple to bundle Quicktime with Mac OSX in Europe, whereas the EU Commission has ruled that Microsoft cannot bundle Windows Media Player with Windows XP/Vista. Clearly there are different rules in place.
.yetag old
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
The problem is that MS Visual Studio is just so well integrated. Things like GUI design, code completion, compiling converting to and from web applications is just so easy.
Windows Forms are just at hand.
Then I build programs on Linux on the other hand (or whit Dev C++) I'm missing a lot. With the exception of Eclipse (witch I admire) there are just something missing. If I'm designing a GUI in GTK Designer I can't just double click on a button and write the code for it. No. I have to first make the GUI remember all the names and make callback functions to them!
Since the release of ASP.net 2.0 I just don't see the point of PHP anymore (Ruby on rails might be an option but it is early)
In Visual Studio everything is integrated. Everywhere else the philosophy seems to be: "Keep everything separate". This might work well with the Unix Philosophy about small and reusable but for most developers it is a hell starting by looking for the right library in the current situation.
Then newcomers ask me that the PHP alternative to Visual Studio Web Express Edition is, I simply don't have an answer. That program allows me to drag and drop a login view and a GridView into a site and afterwards expect it to run on all PHP servers? (if anyone knows the answer please say so)
the people who have seen the light refers to the new programmers as just not good enough. But new programmers will most likely need to start with Visual Studio and then they first have started they just stay there
The EU got their version of XP without WMP. Now look at all those people that use it. None. What was the point?
Actually ... will put MS at competitive disadvantage. What do they think - that all these big American companies, with large EU offices, and large EU business are going to upgrade in US, while they can not do it EU??? They'll just wait, not only because large companies are not first adopters, but because they would like to lower their support costs, supporting a similar environment.
So, MS either will release on time in EU, or even if they start selling in US before that, most of their customers will not jump to upgrade until they can use Vista in their international branches.
Microsoft is selling a product. A lot of people choose to buy the product. Some people don't like it or Microsoft.
Why must the European Commission get involved? If Europeans don't like Microsoft or their products, they won't buy their products. Simple as that.
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
Yeah, well "the people" got together and created this institution called "government", through which some of the people, answerable to the people as a whole, act as the agent of the people as a whole, and for example, in the US, assigned the federal implementation of this "government" thing the responsibility for regulating things with substantial impacts on interstate (including international) commerce. Including, inter alia, regulating wide ranging monopolies.
Other groups of people, having formed their own "governments", have similarly assigned them various tasks, including frequently that of controlling monopolies.
What it really seems to me you want is to deny the people the ability to work collectively to deal with monopolies, but instead to demand that they do it separately and create better opportunities for failure via the tragedy of the commons.
Like enforced DRM, enforced licensing and audit requirments. I fail to see a SINGLE TECHNOLOGICAL reason to upgrade from x64 XP to Vista for server smaller servers or advanced desktops, or 2003 for larger clusters or more than dual cpu machines, and many reasons to be seeking alternative solutions to M$ as a whole for server support. I support a homogenous environment Linux, Unix, VMS, MVS, AIX, M$, and yes still OS/2 and there are valid cases for them all, even M$ has its' place in the world.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
...(unique in a useful way, that is)... they'd have no need to pull all that proprietary-closed-format- incompatibility-lock-in funnybusiness in order to keep their customer base from bolting...
Even if they don't sell it in Europe you will still be able to buy it here. Even before the Intarwebs people bought things using the phone. And mail, mail could work.
The argument that vendors of Vista-based software and tools could suffer seems to make a bit more sense. But it doesn't seem like an economic disaster-in-the-making. I doubt the EU economy is comprised of a large enough percentage of those businesses that it will be a significant hit to them. Maybe this just means that the companies that sell software, including Vista, if it were being marketed elsewhere in the world, would be at a competitive disadvantage? Surely not the whole Union?!
Who says antiamerican is just trying to say "all or nothing", he is offending american and non-american people, and he is trying to transform critics (that he does not like) into conflicts.
Wondering why i am doing so strange posts? I am trying to get a "+5,Flamebait" or "-1,Insightful" rating.
...that your proposal is definitely doable.
Pirates, ladies, and gentlemen - start your torrents!
FROM Manila to Saigon, Chinatowns are thriving in most East Asian cities. They are the creation of the waves of emigrants from mainland China who have moved all over the region, and shaped it with their energy and entrepeneurial zeal. But Seoul is an East Asian exception - its Chinatown vanished long ago. The reasons tell you something about the peculiar nature of South Korea.
Until the early 1980s, a Chinatown could still be found in and around a district called Myong-dong. All that remains today is the Chinese embassy, a Chinese bookshop and a handful of Chinese restaurants - all but one of them run by Koreans. Even the Chinese bakeries that once thrived in the streets a little farther away at the back of the Seoul Plaza hotel have vanished. Instead Myong-dong now bustles with fashion shops, trendy bars and many other sorts of restaurants. The land the bakeries once stood on now sprouts corporate tower blocks.
What happened? The answer seems to be that, like many a western businessman, the overseas Chinese found South Korea too tough a market to crack. That is a fairly remarkable, if dubious, tribute to South Korea, given the enormous difficulties the overseas Chinese have overcome elsewhere in the region.
Many Chinese claim they were forced out by the Seoul authorities. The metropolitan government announced redevelopment plans in 1973 for part of Chinatown. In some areas, landowners were required to build high-rise buildings, but many Chinese were unable to finance such projects. Some sold out at below market rates and either went to Taiwan, emigrated to America (a large number settled in Los Angeles) or moved to other parts of Seoul.
The Chinese-Koreans, however, were having a tough time long before then. Most arrived in the Korean peninsula from China in the 1940s as farmers, searching for fertile land. When the Communists took over in China, many stayed and acquired Taiwanese passports. By 1950, when the Korean war broke out, some 40,000 Chinese were living in Korea. Many were landowners and had established thriving businesses. By the 1960s, the number in South Korea had risen to about 50,000. Now there are barely 10,000.