An Interview with a Cheater

Dan writes to mention a post at the Aeropause site. Author Richard was recently given the rare opportunity to interview a cheater, shining a light into the dark recesses of a conflicted mind. The article explores why the cheater cheats, and the great excuses they use to be able to look themselves in the mirror. From the article: "Aeropause: What made you decide to mod your Xbox to gain an unfair advantage in games like Halo 2? Schmuck5000: Modding is not an unfair advantage. There is just as much chance that there will be a modder on the other team. I am there to even things out. Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner."

Comments

That old idiom.

[Kirin Fenrir]

Cheaters never win. Okay, well, they always win, but that's what makes them losers.

Ladies and Gentlemen:

[Winckle]

Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner."

This is the 12 year old kid who followed some instructions on the internet so he can stop losing at Halo.

Re:Ladies and Gentlemen:

[voice_of_all_reason]

Rarely is the question asked: Is our players modding?

I know what he means

[svunt]

Schmuck5000: Modding is not an unfair advantage. There is just as much chance that there will be a modder on the other team. I am there to even things out.

Exactly. This is why I carry $1000 in Monopoly money in my underpants at all times.

Cheat or cheater

[Bloke down the pub]

I thought a person who acts unsportingly was a cheat. Whereas a cheater's sort of like a leopard.

Re:Cheat or cheater

[PeeAitchPee]

Whereas a cheater's sort of like a leopard.

Correct. It's very similar to the other Southern Appalachian big cat, the lyin'.

Really lame interview

[EVil Lawyer]

FTFA: "Aeropause: Do you have a girlfriend?"

Boh the interviewer and interviewee appear to be relatively idiotic. This interview might have been marginally interesting if they had interviewed someone more on the cutting edge of cheating -- someone who actually creates the mods, or develops new cheating modalities.

Re:Really lame interview

[Score Whore]

People who are cheating are playing a different game. They may be having fun, but they are not playing the same game as the rest of the players.

They want to be bully's and the only way the can bully people is to use a "tool" to get over whatever is preventing them from bullying without the "tool".

Re:Really lame interview

[1010110010]

You're missing the point of the interview.

Yes, it would be very interesting to ask technical as well as moral questions to the people who enable cheaters to cheat, but this interview gave us insight into why a person would cheat in the first place.

I would also like to add that there is a strong difference between cheating at a single player game, and having fun figuring out the save system, and cheating at multiplayer. When you're cheating by yourself, whether it be because you enjoy reverse-engineering the save file or because you simply want to advance faster, it has no impact on anybody else.

Cheating at multiplayer is an annoyance for everybody. The interviewee clearly demonstrates that there is no technical challenge to what he is doing. He's not doing it because he wants to understand how the game works. He's doing it because he's not very good at the games he likes to play and he wants to win, to the frustration of everybody else.

Re:Really lame interview

[Vellmont]

For some reason the word "sociopath" keeps coming to mind when I read your post. Anyone who enjoys pissing off anonymous people in a computer game, and actively seeks that out has a screw or two loose. Perhaps you should up your meds?

Re:Really lame interview

[Jekler]

Other posters said it sounds like sociopathic tendencies. It's not a tendency, you are a sociopath.

"It's amazing people still don't understand what a griefer is."

That's practically the definition of a sociopath. A person who does not think or feel the same genuine emotions the rest of society does, but you firmly believe everyone else's brain is wired up the way yours is.

People with normal minds do not play games for the disenjoyment of others, don't understand why someone would want to, and wouldn't enjoy it if we tried. Your thoughts and behavior are equivilant to someone going to medical school so they can cut people with a scalpel. (i.e. Someone who wants to end up with half a dozen bodies hanging in their basement.) You've chosen a course of action for exactly the opposite reason most people do, but you think it's strange the rest of us don't seem to understand or empathize.

athletes use same excuse

[192939495969798999]

Athletes often use the same excuse, that since there will be "other" players on drugs, they need to use the same drugs to stay competitive. However, this should only be the case if the drugs are allowed, because any given cheater could be exposed and stripped of their titles, video game or otherwise. That's the ultimate slap-down, because anyone after that will assume you're cheating even if you're not.

Interview the Enabler Please

[eldavojohn]

I haven't read this article. But from that last sentence of grammar stumbling, I'm not interested in this interview at all. I don't know what Xbox modding is but I'd imagine that Schmuck5000 didn't invent this 'modding' procedure. A lot of times, they just follow some process online and then run around killing people saying "1337 h4Xx00rs pwn you n00bz0rs." I consider these people much less than 'cheaters' although I don't think the names I have for them are for public display.

What about the people who write the code or make the hardware for the mods? You know, the people that actually do all the work? I want to talk to these people who probably don't even use it all that much but just consider it a challenge and then get bored after the challenge is overcome. Game Genie & Game Shark are popularized commercial versions of this but it's not online play. I wish I could talk to the people that reverse engineer the packets sent out using something like Burp or a networking tool that gives them speed hacks. These people work for it while I don't even think their end goal is really to cheat. I kind of have the feeling that they enjoy the cat and mouse game that appearantly Blizzard has won (after rounds of losing) but Xbox Live has lost.

I investigated writing a program that read the memory from video and tried to interpret it using heuristics on what to do in casewise instances. While it might work for some games (like Tetris), 3D emersion worlds like WoW or online play are much much more difficult. If people are out there and writing these 'bots' that are pretty highly sophisticated, I'd love to hear from them and ask them real questions (not "Do you have a girlfriend?").

By the way, the article has a picture of Steve Martin as "The Jerk" and it's pretty obvious they were interviewing an idiot and doing a radio talk show host job of making him look like a poser.

The subject was then told that

[antifoidulus]

he cannot "mod" the English language as easily as he can his XBox.

Re:Weeeoooeeeoooeeooo...

[revlayle]

Nah, I bet those were the words of THE CHEATER.

See kids: IF YOU cheat at Halo 2 OR become a Slashdot Editor, your grammar skills *will* slip.

(There's a moral here, but damned if I could figure it out!)

The Worst Part...

[HappyCycling]

The worst part of cheating is that it forever creates doubt, mistrust and skepticism about the skills of others online, meaning that if you play well, you are labeled a cheater. Respect goes out the window.

Cognative Dissonance

[SanityInAnarchy]

I hope I spelled that right...

But man, it's amazing this guy can't put two of his responses together:

The people at Bungie are the worst. How can they complain about people like me. They should have built a anti-cheating engine in the game to prevent it.

Ok, ignoring for the moment that they did do that (they put it on a freakin' console, for one), even ignoring that banning cheaters is an "anti-cheating engine" of sorts, when asked how game designers should stop cheaters (since he suggested that they do), he says:

Give Up! There is no way to stop us.

So, damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

Still, this has got to be my favorite quote:

The other players are just jealous p***ys who wish they had the ability to cheat.

Funny, I think this guy cheats (not hard!) because he's a jealous pussy who wishes he had the ability to play fairly.

I can play each and every game I cheat at very well.

I call BS. The people I know who can play a game "very well" -- some of them could be tournament-level if they practiced just a bit more -- would all much rather play fair. Oh, they have fun with new cheats and exploits, for about 10 seconds, and we're talking about things like Warthog jumping. The rest of the time, they are the ones who will be winning anyway, by knifing the aimbotter in the back.

But I suppose it's like trying to teach a Ferengi about honor, or a Klingon about restraint, or a Trekkie about the Real World. He'll always cheat, and he'll always suck, and nothing I say will change that.

Bad grammar, imaturity, poor spelling.....

[Prien715]

Schmuck5000: Modding is not an unfair advantage. There is just as much chance that there will be a modder on the other team. I am there to even things out. Halo 2 is beginning to get old, us modders are just making it more funner.

Bad grammar, immaturity, poor spelling...Quick Taco! You've found a new Slashdot editor!

Twink

[MeanderingMind]

The principles the cheater presents are remarkably similar to arguments for twinking in WoW. Players claim they do it for a variety of reasons, but a very common one is to "even things out" since the other side probably has twinks.

Also interesting is the similarity in attitude. Anyone posting anti-twink messages generally gets called a "loser" and more offensive terms and is labeled as jealous because they can't get the funds to twink. The cheater says the equivalent, calling people who complain about cheaters some nasty things while saying they are envious because they can't cheat or aren't "smart" enough to.

There's also the classic "If they (being the game creators) didn't want me to cheat (or twink) they would have built an anti-cheat engine (equipment based team selector)" argument. As well as the "I have 1337 skills and even without cheats I'll pwn you" argument.

While there are certainly mature people who do things like twinking because they are bored or because they enjoy fighting other twinks, I think it's obvious (especially if you've ever fought them) that the vast majority are without skill and make up for it with whatever advantage can be afforded to an unskilled moron. If everyone actually cheated, they'd stop playing because they wouldn't be able to win.

The fact that the cheater is 24, lacks a girlfriend (quite defensive about it too), and quotes a hideous translation from a dub of a mainstream cartoon show doesn't lend us to have faith in his intelligence.

Re:Rare Opportunity?

[Buzz_Litebeer]

I used to help write anti cheat software, and the thing is the cheats have their own forums as well.

if you want to "interview a cheater" it is very easy to find them.

To successfully find out what cheats were out there I had to get on those boards and become a member and all that stuff. Trust me, "skill" can easily be downloaded for almost any game out there.

The cheaters get all angry and stop playing if they cant cheat, cause the game "aint fun" because they losing or they expect someone else is cheating against them when they lose.

We are teaching our kids that the only way to have fun is to win, and if you are second place it just means your the first loser and all of that.

Kids arent learning that the POINT of the game is to show how good you are at it versus someone else, when you are cheating you arent really playing the same game and your rules are better in your favor. Its completely pointless.

I sense a disturbance in the force...

[musicon]

... as if millions of grammar nazies cried out in terror, and were silenced.

"more funner" indeed.

Bah!

[SirJorgelOfBorgel]

I must say, I hardly play FPS's online anymore as I can't spare the time and today's FPS's just aren't what they used to be. I have been #1 on ngWorldStats for UT/CTF a few times. I have written (non-cheater)mods for a game or two, and an ANTIcheating tool for another (all very well received by their communities). Cheating pisses me off. Yes I used to be real good at some FPS's, and I spent a LOT of time becoming it, playing several hours a day (so call me sad, whatever). What the hell is fun in cheating? If I go into a server and own everybody in there, do I feel good? No. It sucks! I leave and find a server with people who are up to par with my skills. Sometimes they're way above you, then you find a server that is only a little bit above your own skills. And if you get really good in a game, you get to know the other good players. You know who cheats and who doesn't. You don't play with cheaters in general, though sometimes it is fun to kick their scrawny girlfriendless hinies. If you cheat, where's the challenge? What is fun in winning all the time? Ok, I may have actually written a few cheats, but that is because I love coding - it's not like I ever used them 'in the wild'.

Online cheaters are below contempt. I don't care what their motivation is. You don't go and purposely ruin others people's fun. It's just "not done". I don't care if your retarded, doing it for kicks, have some half decent self invented excuse or whatever, you just don't. Hell, I've ended real life friendships when I learned they were cheating (in various ways) and couldn't convince them it's just not done.

The arguments presented in the article are just beyond sanity. "I tend to ignore those people, they bitch and morn about how I cheated but they could have modded their box just like mine.", "How can they complain about people like me. They should have built a anti-cheating engine in the game to prevent it.", "Anyone reading this is simply jealous of the fact that I have enough nuts to cheat and play the game the way I want to.", "why should I stop if no one else does"

It's all about the morals and values. Hell, I could've been fairly rich if I didn't hang on to it. Many players of various games have used tools (mods, extensions, cheater-finding, etc) I've made daily. I could've taken most of their accounts if I wanted, selling them on ebay, and in some cases just exchanging it for real world cash (in case of real-cash-economy games). And believe me, there's lots and lots of cash in that. Morals and values...

Saddest thing is, we are most likely to see this guy grow up to be president of some company that earns millions by ripping other people of or otherwise cheating them (spammers anyone?). Fuck that.

why people cheat

[the dark hero]

no one wants to work for things anymore. they want the quickest way to the top. instant gratification. it's the bane of american society.

Cheating is natural

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not a mystery. It is very simple. Our brains are the products of evolution in a competitive environment. In the good old days, the losers got eaten (or starved to death or what have you). So, those who used all their resources to give themselves every advantage they could tended to be the winners.

We, therefore, are instinctually driven to use all resources available to us to give ourselves every advantage we can. Hence, the "temptation" to cheat is an ever-present behavioral drive.

Good sportsmanship is an arbitrary social construct. There is nothing natural about it. It takes an act of self-denial to be a good sport, and to not cheat. Now, this may be ethically and socially superior...it may be the more enlightened path...but it is not natural and as such most people don't walk it.

Re:Cheating is natural

[misleb]

It is not a mystery. It is very simple. Our brains are the products of evolution in a competitive environment. In the good old days, the losers got eaten (or starved to death or what have you). So, those who used all their resources to give themselves every advantage they could tended to be the winners.

Depends on what you mean by the "old days." Humans are social animals and always have been (as far as we know). Generally speaking, individuals cooporate in a social situation. It pays to play by the rules within the group (which may include *lawful* competition). In a group, you're more likely to be killed for "cheating" (theft, for example) than get a survival advantage. It is therefore the norm for humans to obey the rules of the social group. "Cheating" is a deviation... an aberation that ultimately hurts the stability of the social group.

Cheating may, however, still be natural in the sense that it is an evolutionary carryover from a time when the animal that humans eventually evolved from was not social/cooporative. But as far as being human goes, it is not "natural."

Good sportsmanship is an arbitrary social construct.

Social contructs are no more or less arbitary than any other survival adaptation such as tool making. We make physical tools. We make social constructs. Same basic purpose: survival.

-matthew

The software used

[w33t]

This is a timely article for me since Saturday evening on Battlefield 2 I ran upon an entire squad/clan of cheaters.

It was around 4am with no admins on the server, so they were being quite blatant about their cheating. I believe they were using the wallhacks and aimbots offered from MSXSecurity

Check out the videos:
http://media.putfile.com/MSX-Aimbot
http://media.putfile.com/MSX-Video2222
http://media.putfile.com/pwnage5580
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-364914118 8840786715

Unfortunately, I must be honest, these hacks actually DO make cheating look kind of fun. Like you are a mutant with super-human powers.

I would like to see a team of cheaters going up against another team of cheaters though - that would be strange and pointless gameplay I would think.