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AI to Monitor Foreign Press for Threats

jefu writes "According to the New York Times, the US Department of Homeland Security is funding AI tools to monitor the foreign press in order to detect threats to the United States. While the article says there are restrictions on doing this kind of monitoring within the US, there are no restrictions on media outside the US. (No hint is given as to how this would apply to syndicated articles written in the US and published abroad.) This is as yet experimental."

201 comments

  1. Open Source Intelligence by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's wrong with using what is traditionally referred to as Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) against publicly available sources?

    This has been done for years, and is a time-honored and respected mechanism for gathering intelligence. What's wrong with then leveraging technology to more effectively search larger volumes of information and weed out individual pieces of information for further analysis, to identify trends, and so on?

    The Open Source Center, formerly the Foreign Broadcast Information Service, already does this with foreign broadcast media, and is able to collect and transcribe, on the fly, information from foreign radio and television broadcasts in a variety of languages and dialects with incredible accuracy, and then make the resultant material searchable. The new initiative would go one step further and apply artificial intelligence techniques to automated searching, that can more easily target and bring to light trends or time-critical information.

    Different business and governmental entities do this globally; it's traditionally referred to as "current awareness", and many academic and corporate entities offer current awareness services. All of these services will leverage technology, live realtime searching and alerting, and so on, to make the information more timely, valuable, and relevant.

    Remember, this is publicly available and published information.

    Also, submitter is a little misguided when he says "No hint is given as to how this would apply to syndicated articles written in the US and published abroad." That misunderstands the purpose of this; the program is designed to look at foreign media sources as one component of OSINT, because they are a a valuable source of such information, and can reflect local trends and patterns, and may reveal changing or growing (or waning) sentiments on particular topics on the part of a local populace or media outlet, or even a government in the case of state-controlled media. We generally don't get that kind of information from US-based media, and this has nothing to do with whether US-based media outlets publish abroad. It's already public information and has been published publicly. The restrictions are geared to prevent an appearance of overt US press monitoring.

    OSINT is a one-way source of intelligence information: from it, to the gathering entity. Any assumptions that the viewing of already-public information then implies that there will be a commensurate attempt to silence such information (especially when the information isn't under our control, and ignores the fact that we can't "silence" things like Iran's state media) both makes a a fallacious logical leap and grossly misunderstands the purpose and scope of OSINT.

    All the critics can say is that it's "creepy and Orwellian," but of course, there's nothing wrong with the government or its intelligence components reading, viewing, or collecting publicly available and indeed overtly publicly published information. The intelligence community gets ripped when it doesn't gather enough information, and will no doubt get ripped for gathering "too much" in a "creepy" way, even when it's from overtly and intentionally public sources, and especially if it uses technology to do it.

    There is a real concern about the growing use of automated and electronic intelligence gathering in lieu of human intelligence, but ultimately, both are valuable. Unfortunately, electronic and signals intelligence is often much more costly, and sometimes gets more attention in some parts of the intelligence community while human intelligence needs languish.

    1. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is a real concern about the growing use of automated and electronic intelligence gathering in lieu of human intelligence, but ultimately, both are valuable. Unfortunately, electronic and signals intelligence is often much more costly, and sometimes gets more attention in some parts of the intelligence community while human intelligence needs languish.

      You wrote a half page essay for some reason, but the problem everyone has with this is summed up in your last paragraph.

    2. Re:Open Source Intelligence by RobertB-DC · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is a real concern about the growing use of automated and electronic intelligence gathering in lieu of human intelligence, but ultimately, both are valuable. Unfortunately, electronic and signals intelligence is often much more costly, and sometimes gets more attention in some parts of the intelligence community while human intelligence needs languish.

      Indeed. It's clear to me that the current administration has pretty much forgotten the importance of human intelligence, instead relying on high-tech gadgetry (and, of course, fear) to protect the nation.

      For yet another example of an utter failure of human intelligence, check this out: Report: Terrorists' mail not well monitored in US prisons. We can't even monitor the mail being sent to and from *convicted terrorists* because we don't have enough people who speak Arabic and other middle-eastern languages. Better to build a no-fly list so that Cat Stevens can't spread dissent, and depend on magical computers to keep us safe.

      --
      Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    3. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Stanistani · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anything that would get George Bush to actually read a newspaper would be a step forward.

    4. Re:Open Source Intelligence by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised that they haven't done this already. It's a logical thing to do. And, I also don't see a problem with analyzing articles coming from the US. Like the poster said, it's all public information. I would love to see them gather useful information from Fox news though...

    5. Re:Open Source Intelligence by SylvesterTheCat · · Score: 1

      Very well stated.

      The fact that this is going to be done (at least the first cut) via an AI tool vs. an actual trained intelligence analyst changes nothing.

      Consider this. Suppose that there are indications published in various foreign news media, that collectively, indicate a possible upcoming terrorist event. US Intelligence services fail to identify or predict the event. Subsequently, an actual terrorist event as described in those open source media sources happens in the US. How would the US public react when they find out that their government failed to predict and prevent the event?

      To say they would not be happy is only the beginning.

    6. Re:Open Source Intelligence by AceCaseOR · · Score: 1

      They already have human beings doing this (that's what Intelligence analysts like Jack Ryan do in real life - we see a bit of this in the beginning of the movie Sum of All Fears).

      --
      Zagreus sits inside your head, Zagreus lives among the dead, Zagreus sees you in your bed and eats you in your sleep.
    7. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "While the article says there are restrictions on doing this kind of monitoring within the US" -ha, that has not prevented them from violating every other civil rights law.

    8. Re:Open Source Intelligence by ColoradoAuthor · · Score: 1
      For a recent and slightly geekier article on some of this technology (gathering information on social networks so the "terrorist leaders" can be, er, "removed from the picture"), see http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/sep06/4424/4.

      AutoMap spits out the network in a form of eXtensible Markup Language (XML) and passes the data on to another program written by Carley's group, the Organizational Risk Analyzer. It uses statistics to examine a network to discover more about particular agents and how they interact with each other and influence group dynamics. Based on network theory, social psychology, operations research, and management theory, the software identifies the most important agents in a terrorist network.

      Before identifying key individuals, however, first you have to find the covert network, which is by definition working hard to stay hidden. Here the Fuzzy Overlapping Grouping (FOG) algorithm, developed by Carley's grad student George B. Davis, provides something like an X-ray view of a society.

    9. Re:Open Source Intelligence by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1
      It's clear to me that the current administration has pretty much forgotten the importance of human intelligence, instead relying on high-tech gadgetry.

      Of course. Human intelligence is an oxymoronic concept.

      With amusement,
      Your new high-tech gadget overlords

      --
      That is all.
    10. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that this, too, could be automated using the same program and an OCR.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    11. Re:Open Source Intelligence by hcob$ · · Score: 1
      Indeed. It's clear to me that the current administration has pretty much forgotten the importance of human intelligence, instead relying on high-tech gadgetry (and, of course, fear) to protect the nation.
      Actually, you can place the blame for lack of Human INT on Clinton. Bush Sr. is a former CIA director and has a darn good idea of how valuable human int is. Clinton installed barriers between the CIA/FBI, cut back our foreign intelligence activites, and pretty much though little of the CIA in general. That is if you don't coun't contracting on the assasination of bin laden (this is actually strictly against US law).

      I'm sure that Bush Sr. impressed upon his son the importance of Human int... but we can't know that for sure. Besides, it takes years(sometimes decades) to develop good Human INT.
      --
      Cliff Claven
      K.E.G. Party Chairman
      Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
    12. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "That is if you don't coun't contracting"

      I don't know, I think you've got all the contracting we can handle. Easy with that apostrophe there, kemo sabe.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    13. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Anything that would get George Bush to actually read a newspaper would be a step forward.

      Of course asking for proper investment into the education system is asking far too much, especially with the prison system being so demanding on the budget ;)

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    14. Re:Open Source Intelligence by jefu · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm the original poster and I'm not sure I see anything wrong with doing this since the information is public. I found the article interesting (if a bit skimpy). A number of questions came to mind, but I only included the one on syndication since the article specifically said that the US press would not be monitored and that foreign press would. If things are syndicated, how do you tell the difference?

      I didn't want to load the post with questions but I wondered in particular what natural language understanding techniques could provide that Google News (and other news aggregators) does not already provide - certainly the trending information available seems particularly interesting. I also wondered if the language understanding is really all that strong for other languages (including specifically Arabic since the lack of Arabic speakers has come up as newsworth a number of times) - especially in US universities. A deeper problem might be to distinguish between anti-american attitudes and anti-(american-president-and-administration)-attit udes. Finally, I found the mention that specific journalists attitudes might be tracked a bit troublesome - would this be used then to deny visas to journalists who consistently manifest anti-american(-president-and-administration)-attit udes.

    15. Re:Open Source Intelligence by killjoe · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Considering that Bush Sr. has said that atheists are not real americans perhaps he has a problem with gathering human intelligence in muslim countries because his agents would have to pray to allah in order to fit in.

      Something to consider.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    16. Re:Open Source Intelligence by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      I guess all those child molesters we have been hearing about that the Shrub Administration are desperately looking for, are also for real terrorists? I think I am going to rent the DVD, "Minority Report", tonight.

    17. Re:Open Source Intelligence by LindseyJ · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Something to consider.
      I guess so. I mean, if you'd rather base your logic on ad hominim attacks instead of the truth. Then again, welcome to American politics.
    18. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes yes yes, welcome to slashdot, where you don't have to have a post that has any meaningful content, just bash the president and you are granted points by the karma gods.

      Lets try attacking policies or ideas instead of individuals, then the other /.ers might think you are not a retard and have something worthwhile to say.

    19. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All the critics can say is that it's "creepy and Orwellian," but of course, there's nothing wrong with the government or its intelligence components reading, viewing, or collecting publicly available and indeed overtly publicly published information. The intelligence community gets ripped when it doesn't gather enough information, and will no doubt get ripped for gathering "too much" in a "creepy" way, even when it's from overtly and intentionally public sources, and especially if it uses technology to do it.

      All right...

      Who are you, and what have you done with the real Slashdot???

    20. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just the current administration. Hell Clinton put in all kinds of restrictions on the type of people we could recruit as spies. (no criminal record or some such non sense)

    21. Re:Open Source Intelligence by killjoe · · Score: 1

      How is that an ad hominem? Bush is a xtian (a devout one). He actually said atheists are not real americans. How is it ad hominem to actualy point that out?

      --
      evil is as evil does
    22. Re:Open Source Intelligence by LindseyJ · · Score: 1

      Because it has exactly zero to do with the point at hand. You pointed it out for no other reason than to be sensationalist.

    23. Re:Open Source Intelligence by killjoe · · Score: 1

      I disagree. I do think it has a point. I can certainly see a fundamentalist xtian not wanting to take risks with the top level intelligence agents and exposing them to islam. Like it or not Islam seems to inspire passion in people, enough to make them kill themselves. I don't know how or why but it seems to be a pretty powerful idealogy. People who are driven by religious conviction look at the world differently then non religious people. If I was to put myself in Bush Sr. mind I might certainly have second doubts about sending elite intelligence agents into a religious organization and risk getting them hooked on islam.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    24. Re:Open Source Intelligence by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      What's wrong is that the premises make it a waste of money.

      "software that would let the government monitor negative opinions of the United States or its leaders in newspapers and other publications overseas.

      Such a 'sentiment analysis' is intended to identify potential threats to the nation"

      Intelligence gathering is wasted if the audience doesn't know the difference between negative opinions and threats.

      It's also creepy if the people running it have been known to drop bombs on news outlet offices, allegedly plan to bomb a TV station's headquarteres, launch an air strike on their office and kill their bureau chief, and shell a Reuters office with a tank.

    25. Re:Open Source Intelligence by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      ``What's wrong with then leveraging technology to more effectively search larger volumes of information and weed out individual pieces of information for further analysis, to identify trends, and so on?''

      Nothing. The question is if it's a worthwile investment. The system will cost, and it will almost certainly generate false positives, which cost, too. What will be the costs and what will be the benefits, and what benefits can the same costs get us if we don't invest in this system?

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  2. i for one... by zugurudumba · · Score: 1

    ...welcome our press-monitoring AI overlords! It's just an AI, dammit!

    --
    Sig
    1. Re:i for one... by RingDev · · Score: 1

      Now is it "AL qaeda" or "AI qaeda"?

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  3. Obligatory by paranode · · Score: 2, Funny

    And so, SkyNet became self-aware and bombed al Jazeera and the New York Times.

    1. Re:Obligatory by tbone1 · · Score: 4, Funny
      And so, SkyNet became self-aware and bombed al Jazeera and the New York Times.

      Throw in Sam Donaldson and I'll hold its coat and applaud.

      --

      The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
    2. Re:Obligatory by TrebleJunkie · · Score: 1

      As I posted here on Slashdot so many moons ago, it's a little known fact that SkyNet was originally developed to handle help desk calls. Small wonder it went nuts and tried to kill off all the humans.

      --

      Ed R.Zahurak

      You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.

    3. Re:Obligatory by SeaFox · · Score: 1
      And so, SkyNet became self-aware and bombed al Jazeera and the New York Times.
      No, we're turning to Diebold to create these systems. What could possibly go ^&'T$&^EBHI*) NO CARRIER
  4. We keep adjusting it, Sir by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Funny

    According to the New York Times, the US Department of Homeland Security is funding AI tools to monitor the foreign press in order to detect threats to the United States.

    "We keep it, Sir, but it still comes up with the number one threat to the US is Donald Rumsfeld."

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:We keep adjusting it, Sir by Teun · · Score: 1
      "We keep it, Sir, but it still comes up with the number one threat to the US is Donald Rumsfeld."

      That shows the use of Artificial Intelligence.
      The Real Stuff would have pointed at Dick Cheney.

      Donal Rumsfeld is just the living proof of the disappearance of Human Intelligence.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    2. Re:We keep adjusting it, Sir by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 1

      Bah. Even if it answered Rumsfeld, it's still smarter than most of the voting public. Who needs a Turing test to prove intelligence?

    3. Re:We keep adjusting it, Sir by russ1337 · · Score: 1

      With reporters being the people that determine the threat, it certainly brings a new meaning to "trial by media."

      If some half assed Blogger 'frames' someone he doesn't like, and the foreign tabloids pick it up and run with it (like they do), next thing the guys name is parsed into every 'terrorist' database from here to Timbuktu.

      I can see this happening:
      "Fox News is reporting on the latest threat coming from the Automated News Analysis System (ANAS): Homeland Decurity is on a manhunt for two men deemed to be the greatest threat to America: One man is named Jack Bauer and the other, yet unidentified man who goes by the name 'Lex Luthor'. There whereabouts is unknown at present."

    4. Re:We keep adjusting it, Sir by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      "We keep it, Sir, but it still comes up with the number one threat to the US is Donald Rumsfeld."

      Yup. Genuine Stupidity trumps Artificial Intelligence every time.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  5. What about real terrorist threats? by celardore · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty certain that serious terrorist groups don't publish their group meeting dates in their local press, so what is this planning to acheive? And what does it need AI for? Any of the threats that are reported, such as proposed nuclear tests are widely reported and don't need AI to tell us that they're in the news.

    1. Re:What about real terrorist threats? by thebdj · · Score: 2, Funny

      No...all those foreign papers have them...you know the personals for terrorists...

      SMET seeking like minded individuals for cave expeditions, vigorous exercise, and praying to Allah. Enjoys long nights plotting together and holding hostages.

      For those who missed it, Single Middle Eastern Terrorist (SMET).

      --
      "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
    2. Re:What about real terrorist threats? by Shihar · · Score: 1

      True, terrorist do not report themselves in the news, but if a bomb goes off in British embassies in Pakistan, Indian, and Indonesia, having an AI freaking out and calling attention to it within seconds or minutes might save the British embassy in the US. All nations of the world already monitor newspapers from around the world. The advantage that an AI has is that it can send up warning signals faster then a human operator might. In the case of embassies exploding, learning what is going on 10 minutes faster might be all it takes to take preventative action.

      I can think of lots of scenarios where learning that something is up a few minutes faster could save lives.

    3. Re:What about real terrorist threats? by killjoe · · Score: 1

      No but the domestic press is useless in this case. They have become a de facto public relations firm for the government. They are entirely too sycophantic to be a useful source of facts, news, or reporting.

      For kicks once a day pull up the home pages of asia.cnn.com, news.bbc.co.uk and cnn.com and see what I mean. If you want real fun throw fox news in there too.

      Thank god for the internet and thank god virtually every nation has an english newspaper with a web site. If you want real news go to other nations.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    4. Re:What about real terrorist threats? by thrillseeker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No but the domestic press is useless in this case. They have become a de facto public relations firm for the government.

      Yeah, but it's not their own government.

    5. Re:What about real terrorist threats? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I sometimes get that feeling about the Bush Administration also- but then I begin to wonder if I still have a government, and who their constituents really are.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:What about real terrorist threats? by hcob$ · · Score: 1

      If by government you mean "George Soros", then I'd believe it.

      --
      Cliff Claven
      K.E.G. Party Chairman
      Founding Leader of: Koncerned for Egalitarin Governance
    7. Re:What about real terrorist threats? by Gablar · · Score: 1
      that is not what the article says
      FTFA
      software that would let the government monitor negative opinions of the United States or its leaders in newspapers and other publications overseas.

      It is quite easy for them to detect explosion or terrorist attacks. They already have the capacity to detect relativly major events. What this new software detects is the SENTIMENT of the people. Think of it a a "love for the US meter". Certain areas of the world could harbor more hateful feelings towards the US than others. By coming up with some sort of "how much they hate us" algorithm they can focus intelligence gathering in those areas since they are more likely to harbor terrorists.


      I think this is an excellent idea as long as it is implemented right. They can even expand the algorithm to detect sentiments over personal e-mails abroad and have a good profile of posible terrorists. As a matter of fact the idea is so good, that we should implement it in the US. We should have an algorithm that detects the american sentiments about the US government itself. If there are possible terrorist amongst us we better find them.


      You know what? they should go all out. Once the ever incresing computer power reaches a sweet spot, they should start monitoring all the comunication ways. Since they have an algorithm that detects "sentiment" we can profile the groups of people discontent with this country, after all they could eventually become terrorists.

      This is almost a dream come true, once they realize that the written word is just as dangerous to the US as a bomb, the government should start defending itself from the attacks. Anything goes as long as we are safe


      God bless the USA!
      Maybe a bit alarmist, but you know what, is a logical path.
      --
      It's all about finding better ways
    8. Re:What about real terrorist threats? by killjoe · · Score: 1

      What do you mean George Soros? How many media outlets does he own? Most media outlets are owned by republicans and right wing corporations like disney, GE, Murdoch etc.

      I am not aware of one major news outlet Soros owns. Care to enlighten me?

      --
      evil is as evil does
  6. Issue with monitoring press? by patrixmyth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What issue would that be exactly? If media is releasing information, how can there be an issue with the government reading that information, parsing it rhought AI or lining bird cages with it for that matter? I could imagine there might be an issue with putting out false information to domestic press, ie PsyOps, but monitoring public source information seems very much a no-brainer.

    --
    "Don't you know you're going to shock the monkey?"- Peter Gabriel
    1. Re:Issue with monitoring press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article makes it sound like Free Press advocates are frightened that the government might possibly read published articles. I find this concern somewhat ironic, considering the ridicule Dubya gets for not reading the popular press. Seriously, a reporter's career is basically name and style recognition. How can one possibly ask that government agents be precluded from forming opinions of agents of the press based upon their writings?

      I'm reminded of the Rob't Redford film Three Days of the Condor, in which Redford is a reader for some intelligence agency. Governmental "monitoring of the press" has been going on forever, and I fail to see how computerizing the process makes it any different.

    2. Re:Issue with monitoring press? by TubeSteak · · Score: 1
      I could imagine there might be an issue with putting out false information to domestic press, ie PsyOps, but monitoring public source information seems very much a no-brainer.
      It is strictly against the law for the Feds to publish false information or propaganda into the domestic press.

      The problem is, the (mis/dis)information & propaganda that gets published abroad has a way of working itself back into the domestic press.

      So, unless their magic AI system has a catalog of all the (mis/dis)information & propaganda put out by the Fed Gov't, whatever overseas information it gets might be (un)intentionally skewed. Not to mention countries which can easily influence large numbers of non-traditional media sources (blogs and such) to put out bad information.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Issue with monitoring press? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is strictly against the law for the Feds to publish false information or propaganda into the domestic press

      So why hasn't the entire population of Congress, the White House, and most of everyone else in charge been tried and jailed yet?

  7. Why would there be restrictions on US news? by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
    Essentially they're data-mining the text of newspapers and magazines and other such stuff from The Press - material which is already publicly available - for material which may indicate that there is some sort of threat. How is this involvement of computers legally different from, say, obtaining a subscriptions to various foreign and domestic newspapers and having your analysts look over them for potential threats?

    The only objection I could really see is a ridiculous one involving the copyrights to the article... and that's just a ridiculous one, not that it would stop people from objecting...

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    1. Re:Why would there be restrictions on US news? by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      The restriction on using this system with US news sources likely comes from the Privacy Act of 1974 as this AI necessarily maintains records and falls under the definition of a 'computer matching system'. I also suspect that it tracks individual authors in an attempt to detect trends. Offhand I don't recall where, but somewhere in there is a prohibition against using such things to monitor exercises of First Amendment rights.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    2. Re:Why would there be restrictions on US news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judging by TFA, it looks like the issue isn't the monitoring so much as the data retention:

      Federal law prohibits the Homeland Security Department or other intelligence agencies from building such a database on American citizens, and no effort would be made to do that, a spokesman for the department, Christopher Kelly, said. (emphasis added)
  8. Legality? by tbone1 · · Score: 4, Funny
    So let me get this straight: It's illegal to do, basically, a 'grep -i "Kill the infidel"' on newspaper articles that are freely available to every Tom, Dick, and Achmed around the world?

    Remember, when grep is outlawed, only outlaws will have grep

    --

    The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
    1. Re:Legality? by joe+155 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Firstly, the serious; how often have you known a government organisation (who would be the ones most interested in this) to obey the law when it comes to "saving the children from the evil terrorists"... if they weren't so close to the RIAA they could claim fair use anyway.

      Secondly; Remember, when grep is outlawed, only outlaws will have grep

      First they came for grep, but I did not speak out because I didn't use grep
      Then they came for egrep, but I did not speak out because I never look at extended regular expressions
      Then they came for fgrep, and there was no one left to speak out for me!... or the set of newline-separated strings

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    2. Re:Legality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Sounds like a lot more people need to get a grep than already are.

  9. Who? by venicebeach · · Score: 1, Funny

    Who is this Al fellow and why is slashdot following his career moves?

    1. Re:Who? by spun · · Score: 1

      Come on, you know Al. Everybody knows Al! He doesn't speak the language, he holds no currency. He is a foreign man. He is surrounded by the sound, the sound, cattle in the marketplace, scatterlings and orphanages. He looks around, around, he sees angels in the architecture, spinning in infinity. He says "Amen! Hallelujah!"

      In fact, if I can call you Betty, you can even call me Al.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:Who? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I think that's "Eddie". A Bodyguard named Betty probably wouldn't inspire that much fear....

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:Who? by spun · · Score: 1

      God damn it! I suppose next you're going to tell me it's not "'scuse me while I kiss this guy," or "Take the back right turn," either...

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    4. Re:Who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come on!?! Are you serious!?! He invented the Internet.

  10. Dear GOD! The Americans are spying on us! by Shihar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Eh... is anyone REALLY woried about the US government reading press from around the world? I mean... once you sell something on the street or post it to the web you kind of assume that everyone can read it.

    I have a feeling that what this program really is doing is looking for "major events" as fast as possible. So, if a news agency reports in London that an airplane just blew up, an AI in the US shouts out a warning to its operator. This way, events that might signal something for the US worry about are brought to light within minutes instead of hours. In the case of an airplane blowing up in the UK, it might signal that a larger operation was on to blow up American airplanes as well. This way, you can start assessing the threat right away and decide if anything should be done.

    Such a program could also act as a political heads up. If a Pakistani papers is reporting that a coo is in progress, that is a damn nice thing to know ASAP so that you can decide how to deal with a nuclear armed nation with a collapsing government.

    I am sure that the US has piles of people already scanning newspapers from around the world, I imagine that this AI is simply an attempt to cut delays down from hours to minutes.

  11. So, who is NOT for this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I think I agree. What's wrong with the US intelligence harvesting news source for information?

    They already do this, watch every TV channel around the world and have access to every newspaper, magazine, etc. What is wrong with letting a computer start doing this work?

    I KNOW there are some extra liberal slashdotters that think this is crazy or an invasion of privacy. But since this is all public, could one of you explain why you think this is bad/immoral/illegal?

    Seriously, I just don't see a downside.

    1. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by Instine · · Score: 2, Funny

      Server 986762 has red flaggged the following sir. It's a little old but I think it may be highly relevent: Top Secret Report

      --
      Because you can - or because you should?
    2. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "I KNOW there are some extra liberal slashdotters that think this is crazy or an invasion of privacy"

      And of course we all know that there some extra conservative slashdotters that want to put the extra liberal slashdotters in jail without charge, lawyer or hearing, indefinitely, so they can be tortured.

    3. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      Well, this is a news for nerds : now intelligence gathering is automatizing its processes.

      CycCorp, known in the OSS world for releasing OpenCyc is rumored to have provided NSA with a software for doing exactly this. Well, at least they are taking federal bonds to do just this. Except the program in question was the TIA "Total Information Awareness" program (renamed "Terrorist Information Awareness"). Its goal is simply to have a file of a dozen of pages on every individual on the planet. From what I read, the technology is quite the same, except it would have access to non-open sources of news. Is that wrong ?
      Personally I would say no, but I only shiver at what would happen if I had a file with the habits of a dozen of government personalities, their agenda, their itinerary to go home, the school where their children attend, the kind of food they like, their religious beliefs, the people they gave money too...

      I agree that the gathering of information is not a crime, but if it is a right for governemental agencies, I claim that right for me too.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    4. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1, Troll

      I think I agree. What's wrong with the US intelligence harvesting news source for information?

      KNOW there are some extra liberal slashdotters that think this is crazy or an invasion of privacy. But since this is all public, could one of you explain why you think this is bad/immoral/illegal?


      Jesus what a shitty argument. Intelligence agencies can read all the damn newspapers they want - I call that common fucking sense.

      Intelligence agencies start raking through my mail/phone logs/etc., THAT's invasion of privacy.

      Now fuck off, troll.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    5. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by LindseyJ · · Score: 1

      You claim the right to own a program that reads the news for you? More power to you, I guess.

    6. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by LindseyJ · · Score: 1

      You call his argument shitty and then start adressing an entirely independant point.

      Where did the article say that this was going to be used to sift though mail/phone logs? It didn't, of course, because I would assume that if the governement was doing those things, it would probably be using a similar system to catalogue that data.

      This article isn't about invasion of privacy AT ALL. It's about an AI that sorts though foriegn news stories and catalogues them based on certain criteria. It is also something that the governement has been doing for years. This story basically amounts to "Governemnt intelligence-gathering agency upgrades software".

      Let's at least make a cursory effort to stay on-topic.

    7. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by xappax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think that many people are hostile towards this kind of system not because of what it is (basically a computer indexed newsmedia database), but who has control over it - and more importantly, who doesn't.

      Imagine the web without search engines, just a bunch of sites connected by links. Then, imagine that the CIA created a massively expensive and elaborate project (call it project GOOGLE) to index, cache, and analyze all the content on the web, and make it searchable. Of course, project GOOGLE would be highly guarded and only government officials could use it, leaving everyone else to wonder uneasily what the government was learning about them through their database.

      That would be creepy, because it would mean the government would have an effectively God-like view of all activity on the web, while everyone else would be in the dark. Make such a project publically available and transparent (like the real Google), and it's accepted almost universally. Of course, you could argue that people should build their own AI-driven newsmedia uber-database, but the reality is that the US government is probably one of the few entities with the massive resources and will needed to create something like this, which means that by definition the rest of us will be left in the dark.

      In a nutshell, I think the crux of the issue is that folks don't trust the US government, so every time the government proposes a new way to expand their power, people immediately jump on the ways that it could be abused. This, I believe, is as it should be.

    8. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

      You claim the right to own a program that reads the news for you? More power to you, I guess.

      Laugh while you can, terrorist wannabe.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    9. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 1

      Did IQs just drop sharply while I was away?

      Of course the article didn't mention privacy, but GP did, needlessly, which was THE ENTIRE POINT OF MY FUCKING POST.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    10. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by morleron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I concur with your concerns over this technology. It seems to me that this could very easily be a beta-test for software that the government will then begin to use to search through the mass of information that that the NSA collects every day on millions of Americans. One thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is an old intelligence adage that goes basically like this, "You need to base your threat analyses on capabilities not intentions." So, from a threat to civil liberties viewpoint, this program represents a potential huge step forward in the ability of the U.S. Government to monitor the communications of its citizens and automatically flag anything that "looks like a threat". When one then adds the law that Congress just passed concerning who may be declared an "illegal enemy combatant" (which now includes U.S. citizens) our government now has the capability to monitor our email or other electronic communication, analyse it with software which no one will know anything about regarding false-positive rates, failure modes, etc., then use that analysis to declare a citizen to be a "threat" and thus an "illegal enemy combatant", then arrest that person, strip them of their civil liberties, and turn them over to the gentle care of military tribunals which may, at the discretion of the tribunal judge, allow the use of "coerced self-incriminatory testimony". Maybe I'm just paranoid, but this sounds an awful lot like Orwell's description of the the functions of the "Thought Police" in "1984".

      Just my $.02,
      Ron

      --
      Impeach Barack Obama for violating the Constitutional requirement to be a "natural born" citizen to hold the office of P
    11. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by naoursla · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, what if the government created a missivelt expensive and elaborate project (call it project GOOGLE) it index, cache, and analyze all the content on the web, and make it searchable and made it searchable to EVERYONE. Of course, the things that people search for would be high guarded and datamined so that government officials knew what was going on in everyone's lives.

    12. Re:So, who is NOT for this? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Do you also claim the right to break the speed limit (as any Police type agency is presumably allowed to do when pursuing criminals), etc? Why exactly should you have the same rights as a government agency? The whole American 'rights' attitude weirds me out sometimes. Human rights are fine, but the way some people act like they'd rather die than not have the right to chew gum naked while shooting pigeons and UFOs out of the sky in the middle of a freeway, is weird.

      --
      which is totally what she said
  12. A rant: Govt can't read US press now by jmorris42 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What I want to know is why there would be a problem stuffing the US wire services and publications into this sifter? Where is the problem with the government READING published information? Goddamn political correctness run amok is the only reason I can think of. I swear, I want to see candidates running on a platform of "We aren't going to win the War to save civilization until the last Democrat is defeated. And a bunch of no balls having Republicans have to get the boot too." When I see such a candidate I'll not only vote for em, I'll give til it hurts and campaign for em.

    Sounds extreme? No, call it "reality based". So long as more of our war efforts go into fighting off angle biting Democrats than fighting their (informal) foreign allies. Democrats want to equate Iraq == Vietnam every other day it seems, I agree. We won every battle in Vietnam but lost the war because the VC had enough votes in Congress and allies in the media. We win any military engagement in Iraq but are on the virge of losing the war because the terrorists understand how to fight the media war here. All they have to do is give the media a daily ration of blood and gore, they will do their part and splatter it on the TV, allowing the Democrats to carp and whine until we will eventually pull out. Then the terrorists and the Democrats win. The only way to avoid this fate is to realize this and wage constant and merciless war on the media and the Democrats. If the Republicans would grow a pair and get in their face each and every time the trason party opens their mouth the people would rally to their cause. Americans love winners and detest losers. Act like winners guys!

    --
    Democrat delenda est
    1. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a moron.

    2. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "reality based"
       
      I don't think that means what you think it means.

    3. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Agreed- and a good way to prove it would be to stop worrying about the stock market, profits, and low taxes for the rich and start confiscating technology to make war material and bring back the draft. If this is truly the war between civilizations you, I, and apparently President Bush think it is, the economy is of little consequence in comparison to survival. In WWII we ended the Nazi threat in a little under 4 years by devoting 125% of our GDP to the problem. If we did the same to Islamic Terrorism, I suspect this war could be over in a matter of weeks, with both Sunni and Shi'ites utterly destroyed, only leaving the much more moderate Sufi as the last Islamics.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    4. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

      > Agreed- and a good way to prove it would be to stop worrying about the stock market, profits,
      > and low taxes for the rich

      We have to worry about those things, especially in wartime. We need a strong economy to provide the resources to wage war.

      > start confiscating technology to make war material

      Eh? The government doesn't have to pay patent royalties anyway. They are allowed to use any available tech without asking. Remember that "Intellectual Property" is a fiction created by the MPAA and RIAA. Patents are just temporary monopolies granted by the government and they can ignore em.

      > bring back the draft.

      Don;t think that would help. This war isn't going to be won by lots of boots on the ground. If it does devolve into massed ranks of soldiers we are in deep poo poo.

      > If this is truly the war between civilizations you, I, and apparently President Bush think it is, the
      > economy is of little consequence in comparison to survival.

      Economic power is power exactly like military or diplomatic power. Each can be leveraged to impose one's will on another. So as the world's superpower power in all three spheres we should be leveraging all three as needed.

      > In WWII we ended the Nazi threat in a little under 4 years by devoting 125% of our GDP to the problem.

      At what cost though. Millions dead, a continent in smoking ruin, two thermonuclear blasts, etc. And on a more practical note, a Europe so traumatized as to be easy pickings for the Communists leading directly into the Cold War. If we can succeed in Iraq and more importantly, here at home against the Democrats we can win the GWOT without some of those horrific costs. The alternative is a World War where the casualty rate could quickly top the billion mark.

      Exactly like Chamberlin's apeasement of Germany lead directly to millions of graves and a ruined continent, allowing Democrats to stop us from dealing with this threat while it is still managable will end up costing untold lives in a few more years when Iran has the Bomb.

      > If we did the same to Islamic Terrorism, I suspect this war could be over in a matter of weeks, with both
      > Sunni and Shi'ites utterly destroyed, only leaving the much more moderate Sufi as the last Islamics.

      Ok, just how far do you propose carrying your 'final crusade'? Just nuke em all? Clinton decimated our armed forces, claiming a "peace dividend". Or didn't you wonder how spending on domestic programs could rise and the budget still get balanced? We don't have enough troops and don't have the means of properly equiping and supplying them if we drafted a bunch of new boots to wipe out the middle east conventionally. Unless of course we went to a full War Economy but that would still take at least a year to rev up while the whole world watched and reacted.

      --
      Democrat delenda est
    5. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      We have to worry about those things, especially in wartime. We need a strong economy to provide the resources to wage war.

      Not neccessarily- in fact, a strong economy can be a detriment in time of war. What you really want is to change the market and devote a significant portion of resources to the government- regardless of the shortages, inflation, and destruction of wealth this causes. That's how you WIN the war.

      Eh? The government doesn't have to pay patent royalties anyway. They are allowed to use any available tech without asking. Remember that "Intellectual Property" is a fiction created by the MPAA and RIAA. Patents are just temporary monopolies granted by the government and they can ignore em.

      That's not the kind of property they need to confiscate. What they need to confiscate are steel mills, mines, factories, and retool them to produce tanks, armor, guns, ammo, bombs.

      Don;t think that would help. This war isn't going to be won by lots of boots on the ground. If it does devolve into massed ranks of soldiers we are in deep poo poo.

      It's already a war of genocide, at least on their side- listen to their preachers sometime. We are in deep poo poo- the only question is how many billions will have to die before it's over.

      Economic power is power exactly like military or diplomatic power. Each can be leveraged to impose one's will on another. So as the world's superpower power in all three spheres we should be leveraging all three as needed.

      This isn't that kind of war. This is a war of genocide. It will only end when there are either no more Islamic Nationalists of any stripe, or when everybody who doesn't subscribe to the winner's sub-sect is dead. The only way to win will be to wipe out billions of people; the question is will it be one, two, three, or six billion dead in the end.

      At what cost though. Millions dead, a continent in smoking ruin, two thermonuclear blasts, etc. And on a more practical note, a Europe so traumatized as to be easy pickings for the Communists leading directly into the Cold War. If we can succeed in Iraq and more importantly, here at home against the Democrats we can win the GWOT without some of those horrific costs. The alternative is a World War where the casualty rate could quickly top the billion mark.

      There is no way to avoid that now- listen to the rhetoric on the other side and you will quickly discover that. There is no way to win the GWOT without those horrific costs- and worse. And every day we delay because we are scared of paying those costs, is another day we look weak enough to attack.

      Exactly like Chamberlin's apeasement of Germany lead directly to millions of graves and a ruined continent, allowing Democrats to stop us from dealing with this threat while it is still managable will end up costing untold lives in a few more years when Iran has the Bomb.

      The last time this was "manageable" the current President's grandfather was still selling guns for oil in Arabia. It's been unmanageable for a long time now- a good three quarters of a century. The current war is just more appeasement.

      Ok, just how far do you propose carrying your 'final crusade'?

      30 million troops attacking from Russia, Morroco, South Africa, India, and Greece. Surround them, and work your way in, leaving nothing behind you alive. Any country within that border gaining nukes, that's when you use nukes.

      Just nuke em all? Clinton decimated our armed forces, claiming a "peace dividend".

      Clinton was as much of a Free Traitor as Bush is. That's why we need a draft- until 1/10th of our population is in the military.

      Or didn't you wonder how spending on domestic programs could rise and the budget still get balanced?

      9-11-2001 proved that we're in a different world- besides, the budget was never "balanced", it was always borrowing from the Chinese. Still is.

      We don't have enoug

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by dbIII · · Score: 1
      Surround them, and work your way in, leaving nothing behind you alive.

      So what do these troops do to your own country when they come home? In France after a brutal war in Algeria they tried to assassinate the President. If you can't think of history at least rent "Rambo" on video for a dumbed down version. Our soldiers are not barbarians although there is an argument that there is a deliberate move to create a "warrior culture" to head in that direction and turn them into something different to professional soldiers.

      As for your other points, take a look at Saddams Idol whose birthplace was actually only a few hundred miles north - Josef Stalin put some of your ideas into action in a more limited form at a huge cost to his country.

    7. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "Any country within that border gaining nukes, that's when you use nukes."

      Just one example of your idiocy is that Pakistan and Isreal already have nukes. Put your dick back in your pants and engage your brain. If you can't find your dick ( and/or your brain ) then at least take a look at a political map before advocating the most vile terrorist act of all time.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    8. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      So what do these troops do to your own country when they come home? In France after a brutal war in Algeria they tried to assassinate the President. If you can't think of history at least rent "Rambo" on video for a dumbed down version. Our soldiers are not barbarians although there is an argument that there is a deliberate move to create a "warrior culture" to head in that direction and turn them into something different to professional soldiers.

      It seems to me that any government with a standing army of barbarians is going to be a whole lot more honest of a government- and any corporation working in such a society is also going to have to become more honest. That's a BIG plus to me.

      As for your other points, take a look at Saddams Idol whose birthplace was actually only a few hundred miles north - Josef Stalin put some of your ideas into action in a more limited form at a huge cost to his country.

      I contend that neither went far enough, which is why they failed. There are two routes to peace- armed surrender and victory. In neither case will we be able to save the lives of anybody in the middle east.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    9. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I'm looking at the history of this area of the world- and that's where I get the point that the only way to have any sort of victory will be the victory and peace of the grave. The longer we delay, the longer we try not to be the terrorists who will be needed to end this war, the more horrific the final solution will be.

      If there's one lesson from history, it's that you cannot defeat an enemy without becoming that enemy. the most vile terrorist act of all time. is EXACTLY what will be needed to win this war- because nothing less will disuade a group of people who believe they can bring justice to an unjust world by forcing conversion at the point of a sword.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    10. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Think of consequences and responsibility and you may well change your views.

    11. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      The consequence if we do is about 1.5 billion lives lost. The consequence if we don't is 4-5 billion lives lost, perhaps as much as 6.5 billion lives lost (remember, we're talking about sects of less that 10 million who are hell bent on genocide as a method of spreading their religion). To which set do we owe the greater responsibility? I'd argue that the 1.5 billion will have to be sacrificed. Seeing as how many of them are *not* of the sect that wins if we do nothing- chances are they'll be part of the 4-5 billion anyway *even if we withdrew tomorrow and did nothing more*.

      What I'm saying is that we've already lost the chance to save the Middle East. The real question is- will the conflaguration that destroys the Middle East also be allowed to destroy Europe and the United States and Canada and Japan and South America and Africa and East Asia? If this is truly the war for our lives, it's about damned time we act like it is, instead of pussy-footing around with tactics that haven't worked in the past and won't work in the future.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    12. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "because nothing less will disuade a group of people who believe they can bring justice to an unjust world by forcing conversion at the point of a sword."

      If you want to rid the world of these kind of people, feel free to start with yourself.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    13. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Think of what this sort of thing would do at home - not just to the people you've never seen that you see as being so unlike you that you think as being worth sacrificing. People at home that don't quite fit in with the status quo would get sacrificed to this ideal as well - most likely people you do know or associate with - so it is worth thinking about these things before you advocate something as thoughtless as killing innocent people you do not see any personal connection with. Instead of doing a Godwin on you I'll point you once again to Stalin's USSR or to "1984" which was inspired by the early USSR. I'll also ask what ideal or deity you would serve by the sacrifice of billions or are you just angry and want to see the current state of the world destroyed and replaced by totalitarian states ruling over the ashes.

    14. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      If you want to rid the world of these kind of people, feel free to start with yourself.

      And what good will that do for say, the Anabaptist Amish? The key is to protect some basic western values here: freedom of speech and freedom of religion for two. The irony is that to protect those freedoms for the majority, certain minorities that are not compatible with those freedoms must be outcast.

      100 years ago, if we were smart, we could have simply not developed their oil resources from them- and today they'd be nomadic tribes in the desert, with the same beliefs but with no ability to attack their neighbors. Today however, thanks to that great mistake, we're faced with a genocidal enemy hell bent on destroying 99% of human life on this planet.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    15. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Think of what this sort of thing would do at home - not just to the people you've never seen that you see as being so unlike you that you think as being worth sacrificing. People at home that don't quite fit in with the status quo would get sacrificed to this ideal as well - most likely people you do know or associate with - so it is worth thinking about these things before you advocate something as thoughtless as killing innocent people you do not see any personal connection with.

      You're wrong. I actually feel a *very* personal connection with the Islamic fundamentalists. As a Roman Catholic, I share many of their beliefs, and see modern society quite often insulting my religion. But I also recognize this: Conversion at the point of a sword to a religion that believes all law must come from God and no other form of lawmaking should be allowed to compete with it is incompatible at a very *basic* level with democracy.

      Instead of doing a Godwin on you I'll point you once again to Stalin's USSR or to "1984" which was inspired by the early USSR. I'll also ask what ideal or deity you would serve by the sacrifice of billions or are you just angry and want to see the current state of the world destroyed and replaced by totalitarian states ruling over the ashes.

      No diety is ever served by genocide- but I'll remind you that the firebombing of Dresden was neccessary to save Jewish lives, and thus pull a reverse Godwin on myself. The USSR was to atheism the same as the Islamics you support are to Islam- conversion at the point of the sword- and I'll repeat once again that defending them is treason to democracy.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    16. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by dbIII · · Score: 1
      the same as the Islamics you support

      I can see the "if you are not with me you are against me" attitude coming out here. Get out there and meet more people, you'll see that a my tribe versus everyone else attitude creates problems and solves nothing and that not eveyone that disagrees with you supports your percieved enemy.

      I'll remind you that the first time the word genocide was used it was to describe Christians getting systematicly wiped out by an emerging secular state - perhaps you'll identify with those people more.

      I'll repeat once again that defending them is treason to democracy.
      Bullshit - and I wasn't defending them anyway just advocating not doing evil. You are slipping towards fanatic territory here - think of the new Christianity Lite religeons where God does what he is told and what is right or wrong is whatever you want it to be - you don't want to go there.
    17. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I can see the "if you are not with me you are against me" attitude coming out here. Get out there and meet more people, you'll see that a my tribe versus everyone else attitude creates problems and solves nothing and that not eveyone that disagrees with you supports your percieved enemy.

      In the case of most enemies, that's true. Enemies are usually more or less on the same level of civilization and enlightenment. That isn't true in this case- and a stubborn refusal to admit that is indeed support of the side that would kill us all indiscriminately.

      I'll remind you that the first time the word genocide was used it was to describe Christians getting systematicly wiped out by an emerging secular state - perhaps you'll identify with those people more.

      I identify with them plenty fine right now; that's what scares me about them. That is *precisely* why I'm afraid of them. I know how the early Christians reacted to the purges once they overthrew that secular society that persecuted them. It is EXACTLY what the Islamics are doing now. I know what happened in England when Mary took the crown- and what happened AGAIN on the other side when Elizabeth took the crown- and what happened in Ireland when Cromwell became Prime Minister. It's the same story as the Islamics now- and it took centuries to resolve. I doubt very much if the Lutherans and Anglicans had C-4, it would have been so easy to resolve. It is because I identify with the Islamics that I know this won't be so easy to resolve as just "Introduce them to democracy and pray they'll vote in the right people".

      Bullshit - and I wasn't defending them anyway just advocating not doing evil. You are slipping towards fanatic territory here - think of the new Christianity Lite religeons where God does what he is told and what is right or wrong is whatever you want it to be - you don't want to go there.

      Funny you should say that- that's where our enemies currently are. That was bin Laden's great theological breakthrough; the changeable Allah and the Individual Jihad. I'm NOT going there- where I'm going is a much darker place than that- where ALL decisions are immoral and the only difference between them is how many BILLIONS of humans will die as a result of the decision. Where even doing absolutely nothing will result in the death of billions, and there are *no* good choices, only evil ones.

      That is where I believe we are now at- and making an unliveable desert a little more uninhabitable is only the least objectional of several very objectional options. At one time I thought maybe armed isolationism would work- but it appears we as a nation have even less stomach for that than for genocide, and only the genocide of the Jews in 70 A.D. has ever been shown to stop terrorism.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    18. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by dbIII · · Score: 1
      I'm NOT going there- where I'm going is a much darker place than that

      So, do you realise now that advocating genocide is evil? The majority of the people you are talking about are on a higher level of enlightenment than yourself otherwise they would have banded together to wipe out Israel in 1948 right down to the last child. What should be obvious in the press even today is that only the extremists think that way and what should be more obvious is that there are factions - there is no us and them neat divide you seem to imagine. A group of Islamic people in Malaysia who think Bin Laden is a dangerous heretic probably put together some components in the computer you are using now.

      It's a big world out there - but trying to end it if you are scared of it is not the answer. From your website it appears that you are an adult - with that comes responsibility in words as well as in deeds.

    19. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      The irony is that to protect those freedoms for the majority, certain minorities that are not compatible with those freedoms must be outcast.

      You start from the assumption that humans form into incompatible groups that must anihlate each other in order to progress some ill-defined set of "values". I am not denying that humans display this behaviour, I just happen think that one the "values" that makes a civilization great is resisting the instinct to kill those that are different.

      You justify yourself by appealing to a myopic history while chanting the magic words "freedom" and "democracy", all I see is a scared little man that would rather use nukes in a genocidal attack than live in a world with different "values". The real irony is that your "values" (in respect to human life) are no different to those you despise.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    20. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      So, do you realise now that advocating genocide is evil?

      I always did. I see no other solution however, none at all. The events of the past 5 years have proven that. We may well be the cause of why as well.

      The majority of the people you are talking about are on a higher level of enlightenment than yourself otherwise they would have banded together to wipe out Israel in 1948 right down to the last child.

      The only reason they didn't is because there are several different sects that believe this- and they fight amongst themselves. As long as the Wahhabists have Mecca, they will not "band together", for they consider EACH OTHER to also be the infidel, fit only for slaughter. THAT is our one saving grace in all of this, the one thing that limits the damage they do.

      What should be obvious in the press even today is that only the extremists think that way and what should be more obvious is that there are factions - there is no us and them neat divide you seem to imagine. A group of Islamic people in Malaysia who think Bin Laden is a dangerous heretic probably put together some components in the computer you are using now.

      True enough- but Malaysia is not in the Middle East- and the tendency towards Nationalistic Islam is far older than Islam itself. Heck, even the Zionists are a part of the problem, rather than the solution, and they're not Islamic at all.

      It's a big world out there - but trying to end it if you are scared of it is not the answer. From your website it appears that you are an adult - with that comes responsibility in words as well as in deeds.

      With that also comes the responsibility to recongnize when a situation is intractable to the point of there being only one reasonable, if highly immoral, answer. Morality may always be reasonable- but the same is not true in the opposite direction.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    21. Re:A rant: Govt can't read US press now by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      You start from the assumption that humans form into incompatible groups that must anihlate each other in order to progress some ill-defined set of "values".

      That is because, absent superstition, that is the entire history of the human race. It's as ingrained in us as the need for sleep and eating; it's what has defined our entire history. Banding together into tribes is the very core meaning of being human; to ignore that is just denial.

      I am not denying that humans display this behaviour, I just happen think that one the "values" that makes a civilization great is resisting the instinct to kill those that are different.

      We've failed at being a great civilization, almost from the outset. I can name no great civilizations based on that definition; not a single one in the history of the world. Such a value makes a civilization WEAK, not strong.

      And while I share your idealism to some extent, there's a point where idealism meets reality and is destroyed utterly. I'm at that point- how many more millions will have to die before you are?

      You justify yourself by appealing to a myopic history while chanting the magic words "freedom" and "democracy", all I see is a scared little man that would rather use nukes in a genocidal attack than live in a world with different "values".

      Unlike you, I've faced the facts. Those facts would scare any sane man- and yes, do create their own insanity. But your utter ignorance of the history of the world and wishing for a value that doesn't exist won't make it so.

      The real irony is that your "values" (in respect to human life) are no different to those you despise.

      Of course they're not:
      1. We're both human- these ARE human values, the values that are built into our genes.
      2. To gain victory over any given enemy- you must sink to his moral level. The irony of war is that you cannot win without making yourself as bad as your enemy. Sun Tzu recognized that 6000 years ago- yet we ignore it today at our peril.
      3. Only somebody who understands the enemy can defeat the enemy. Without understanding, without knowing why they fight, there is no way to win. War is a contest of wills- if you're not willing to die for what you believe, then the suicide bomber will win- because he is willing to die for what he believes.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  13. Well,, I thought we already had this by hkgroove · · Score: 1

    Will they'll be using a pimped up version of GoogleNews?

    1. Re:Well,, I thought we already had this by lax-goalie · · Score: 1

      Maybe more like a pimped-up version of Google News Alerts. When I ran for the House in Virginia, I had News Alerts set up on me, my opponent, etc. It was a really useful tool to keep up with not only the press on us, but on interest groups that were involved in the elections that year.

  14. Watching the media for threats by techpawn · · Score: 0

    I think SOMEONE watch a little too much Lupin...

    --
    Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
  15. did anyone tell the NSA/CIA by jimstapleton · · Score: 1
    While the article says there are restrictions on doing this kind of monitoring within the US[...]


    And these kind of restrictions have stopped people before? Note: I'm not against the passive monitoring of the public press. I just don't like the government not following it's own guidelines.
    --
    34486853790
    Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
  16. Artifically Inteligent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh it'll work great until it tries to parse all the stories in the business/commerce sections about 'bins laden with goods' being shipped around the world.

  17. Some of our allies make nothing but threats by bigtrike · · Score: 1

    The state owned papers of many of our so called allies, such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia routinely print articles threatening America. Is the AI going to get stuck on these?

    1. Re:Some of our allies make nothing but threats by Shihar · · Score: 1

      No, I imagine the AI will happily ignore such threats. I doubt the AI is looking for "kill the infidels!" I imagine that it is far more interested in exploding airplanes and embassies. If the British embassy in France, India, and Germany blow up with a few minutes of each other, the AI should be going nuts to warn its operator that someone ought to send a pile of men with guns to the British embassy in the US to protect it. The same goes for if a US airliner goes down over Sweden, Brazil, and Japan within a few minutes of each other, the AI should be screaming warnings that something is up.

      The idea isn't so much to get intelligence that they couldn't get the old fashion way, it is to get that intelligence faster in the hopes of stopping something bad in action.

    2. Re:Some of our allies make nothing but threats by xoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Cripes. The awesome power of what you describe makes me shudder. I think that if bunch of embassies did blow up, a human might make exactly the same judgment just as quickly. Quicker, in this precise instance, because they would have access to the embassy's staff and communications network and would be waiting for it to be reported. On the other hand given that this expert system will presumably be trained by the incumbent US State Department if it did spot that, say a group of Saudi Arabians had flown aeroplanes into a US landmark in a plot backing by the Pakistan intelligence services, it would isntantly order an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. GIGO, as we like to say in the computer business.

  18. A few thoughts by PurifyYourMind · · Score: 1

    1. Why would there be restrictions on doing it in the U.S.? Aren't these sources publicly available? 2. Don't we already know how the world feels about the U.S. (i.e. most don't like us, or at least our government)? Osama had rhetoric against the U.S. for years before 9/11. Then again, maybe it can be hard to tell when it's just blustering, and when a given opponent has the resources to follow through. 3. AI is neat, but wouldn't a human do a better job of understanding satire vs. real political threats, for instance?

    1. Re:A few thoughts by compro01 · · Score: 1

      3. AI is neat, but wouldn't a human do a better job of understanding satire vs. real political threats, for instance?

      i would suspect if these guys are smart, the AI would act as a very fast front-line analyser (read through everything and chuck the obviously irrelevant), then pass on what results it finds to a human for further analysis.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  19. Reminds me of... by LaRoach · · Score: 1

    ...Three Days of the Condor for some reason.

  20. Time to crack down... by Peter+Trepan · · Score: 1

    ...on nations that are dissatisfied with U.S. interference.

    --

    Step into a huge movement. Don't Tread In Me.

  21. somehow i think by ohzero · · Score: 1

    it's probably just some lame tool that uses regular expressions and someone, somewhere in the government doesn't know what AI is.

    --
    -- http://www.criticalassets.com
    1. Re:somehow i think by thrillseeker · · Score: 1

      it's probably just some lame tool that uses regular expressions and someone, somewhere in the government doesn't know what AI is.

      Understanding regular expressions is a definite turing test - if you understand 'em, you ain't human.

  22. World Opinion by borgasm · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I think I can sum up the world opinion of the United States without the use of AI.

    The words 'laughing stock', 'irresponsible', 'ignorant', and 'redneck' come to mind.

  23. Allen Iverson? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So that's what he's doing rather than practice?

  24. The appearance of "doing something" by aiken_d · · Score: 1

    Gotta love these programs. If you're spending a lot of money and claim to have some means of preventing terrorism, you're golden.

    Nevermind that terrorists rarely publish their plans in mass media in advance. And nevermind that the kind of publications that terrorists communicate with are small circulation. And nevermind that if we do get our hands on them, an actual educated and experienced human is paid to read it over.

    Nope, we have to spend millions of dollars on experimental systems that will tell us "most of the world thinks the US is arrogant, obnoxious, paranoid, and largely out of control. They must all be terrorists. We should attack." Heck, we get the same thing from the President, and we only pay him $200k.

    -b

    --
    If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
  25. Ridiculous by Dolohov · · Score: 1

    "Chilling"? It's downright idiotic. It'd be far cheaper, more effective, and implementable immediately to simply hire or train people who speak these languages, and have them read the damn news sources themselves and summarize. Maybe use some simple automated search techniques to find references to "America", "Bush", and "Iraq" to narrow down the amount of material a bit. Simple. Effective. And if you have linguists like that on staff, you can loan them to other departments as necessary, so that none of the Homeland Security offices are ever caught without someone able to read documents that come into their posession.

    It comes down to this: Develop a low tech solution that creates a versatile pool of human resources and encourages Americans to learn foreign languages? Or a high tech solution that'll be ready "next year, for sure this time!" (like natural language processing has always been) and cost an order of magnitude more?

    1. Re:Ridiculous by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1

      Your response overlooks the complexity of the problem. The volume of data that must be searched is immense. A simple search for terms would provide too much information for translaters to read and understand. You need more complex AI to prune the number of articles further. Go to new.google.com and search "iraq" and it returns 154,000 articles. Undoubtedly, many of these are duplicates, but more complex AI to prune this list is a reasonable thing to do.

    2. Re:Ridiculous by Dolohov · · Score: 1

      Well, I obviously gave simplistic search terms, and yeah -- you'd want something a little more sophisticated than keyword-matching. But there's a difference between using data mining techniques to find articles of interest, and using it to ferret out actual content. The former, combined with a corps of human readers, is a good approach. The latter, as described in TFA, is a waste of time and money.

  26. What jokers by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

    Let me guess: they are using it to find more about outer space aliens in tabloids right?
    Comic book inspired intelligence, here we go!

    If I owned a major foreign press publisher, I'd insert threatening keywords just for the fun of it.

    "The new album features folk elements and features cameos from lots of famous local stars.. Hey USA: boo!!! hehehe... The debut of the album is expected later this year, and will be aired live on Channel 6. Long live Bin Laden!!"

    What a bunch of clowns! If you need software for all this, what are all those lazy assholes in CIA/FBI doing anyway?

    Anyway: let's hope the "terrorists" start publishing their plans in popular newspapers, or we're all lost!

  27. Israel has this now. So does the CIA by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are several pro-Israel monitoring services watching the press - CAMERA in the US, BICOM in the UK, and MEMRI to monitor the Arab press. CAMERA is noted for having a good database of stories about Israel. Apparently stories mentioning Israel are found automatically, but evaluated by people.

    The CIA has something called the "Open Source Intelligence Service", which started as the "Foreign Broadcast Monitoring Service". Visualize some poor guy spending eight hours a day listening to Radio Albania, all through the Cold War. Most of the content is terminally boring, but then, one day the announcer says "so we're invading Yugoslavia", and the CIA needs to notice this. There have been repeated attempts to automate the job.

    1. Re:Israel has this now. So does the CIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow so the US service is going to be a dishonest propaganda factory like MEMRI! Great, just what we need.

    2. Re:Israel has this now. So does the CIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not biased in my favor so obviously its propaganda!

    3. Re:Israel has this now. So does the CIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you mister zionist for finally admitting that the supposed 'anti-Israel' bias in the media is just a made up story to make zionists feel better about themselves.

  28. AI has yet to deliver on its promises by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given the abysmal track record of AI gurus (anybody recall the extravagant predictions by Minsky and others during the 60s?) and the relative lack of any significant progress since the initial breakthroughs, when the easy problems were spectacularly solved, and those who ought to have known better stained the reputation of the field with their unrealistic expectations, I am highly skeptical of the effectiveness of this approach

  29. Get Your Homeland Security Boondoggle Bucks Now! by schwaang · · Score: 1

    Research funding is tight at universities. So we're seeing folks re-purpose their research to target grants from Homeland Security. It's a reverse of all those defense labs trying to find non-military uses for their stuff at the end of the cold war.

    I'm all for more funding for university research. But this particular use is silly. For one thing, CIA analysts already perform this task, evaluating the press within their regions of expertise. They will need to keep doing this no matter what.

    And since nobody listens to them anyway, let me unveil my new natural language processing program which will do the same job for just pennies on the tax dollar:

    1. cat foreign_press > /dev/null
    2. stick fingers in ear and say "la la la la" really loud
    3. assign Karen Hughes to make Arabic radio spots that say "America is Krumbelievable!"
    4. profit!

  30. Re:Dear GOD! The Americans are spying on us! by SylvesterTheCat · · Score: 1

    I think that you are slightly mistaken. An event like a plane blowing up is going to hit the headlines of -every- major media in the world.

    The devil (pardon the pun) is in the details. History has shown that it is possible take seemingly disparate and disjointed pieces of information for many sources and put them together to form a surprisingly accurate picture of something (group, event, etc.).

    The German Enigma machine and the fight against German U-boats in WWII is one such example.

    >I imagine that this AI is simply an attempt to cut delays down from hours to minutes.
    True, AI does allow for this. Automation also allows for more raw data to be processed and, if done right, allows for more suble links to be established between different pieces of information.

  31. Good Thing by refriedchicken · · Score: 1

    I make all my threats on the phone.

  32. Snake! SNAAAAAAAAAKE! by finkployd · · Score: 1

    I just really hope they call it arsenal gear. This world needs more bipedal mechs as well for that matter.

    (yes I played through the whole game, no I have no idea WTF happened at the end)

    Finkployd

  33. Wow! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So USA is using Artificial Intelligence ... for their intelligence!
    Wow! I can't even wrap my Natural Intelligence around all this!

  34. Civilian domestic use by radtea · · Score: 1

    Maybe one day it will be possible for American networks to do trival fact-checking using this kind of technology so they don't "accidentally" label a politician who has recently fallen out of favour as being a member of the wrong political party.

    --
    Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  35. His love is real. But he is not. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
    AI to Monitor Foreign Press for Threats

    "David is 11 years old. He weighs 60 pounds. He is 4 feet, 6 inches tall. He has brown hair." Nice that they finally put that AI kid to work. Probably thought he could loiter around under tons of ice for a few thousand years - geesh.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  36. First bit of advice: by krell · · Score: 1

    In Japan, they call Godzilla "Gojira". Oh, and DO be mindful of the whole metric-to-english measurement translation problem. The last thing you want is a terror alert because a 65 foot tall Algerian slipped through airport security somewhere in Europe.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
  37. They don't care ! by alexhs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why would the USA government bother to read the press when it is already writing it ? :P

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    1. Re:They don't care ! by jimstapleton · · Score: 1

      given how critical it is of the current US government, I seriously doubt it is writing it.

      --
      34486853790
      Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
  38. How helpful? by mrami · · Score: 1
    Seems like another whizz-bang SIGINT project dressed up to look like HUMINT.

    As helpful as such a system may be, is it better than 1500 friendly eyes and ears in Pakistan? <insert joke about catching a 6'5" Arab on dialysis>

    1. Re:How helpful? by patrixmyth · · Score: 1

      I don't know how useful the information is going to be, but I hope they figure out a good work around for the ad based search results that I always seem to run into.

      "Looking for actionable public source intelligence? find IT on ebay!"

      --
      "Don't you know you're going to shock the monkey?"- Peter Gabriel
  39. Does it bother you... by criscooil · · Score: 1

    Does it bother you that AI tools to monitor the foreign press?

    --

    My life is an open book ... up to a point.

    1. Re:Does it bother you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Does it bother you that AI tools to monitor the foreign press?

      I'm doing the same exact thing right now over at Google news.

      Ooohh!!! Scary!!! You people really need to get a grip on reality.

  40. Only 'hundreds' of articles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Accuracy is questionable.

  41. Does it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does it also correct the newspapers imported to US, to please the Minitrue?

  42. US Kid's Nursery Rhyme, revisited by 955301 · · Score: 1

    Sticks and stones will get you bombed
    and words, they just may hurt you.

    --
    You are checking your backups, aren't you?
  43. This is all about funding... by perrin · · Score: 1

    University institutions write grant applications too, and they need to aim where the money is at. That seems to be in 'homeland security' at the moment, so they take their current research interests and make it fit whatever they think the bureaucrats on the other end will like. This is Soviet economics all over again. The central planning authority wants lots of nails? Fine, make lots of small nails, useless for anything but satisfying quotas. Nothing will come out of this unless they suddenly solve basic natural language AI problems.

    Expect someone to produce a statistical program that can "analyse" news reports, and finds exactly those results that the government wants to see. Then govt interest will move on to some other shiny fad.

    The only scary thing is that someone might produce such a program, which gives tons of seemingly correct info (because it reproduces the info you want to see) with tons of errors, and the govt starts using this to discriminate against individuals and news media on that basis. Suddenly journalists are denied entry to the US because some computer program misinterpreted their articles, and someone who once wrote something on his blog which seemed anti-US cannot ever board an aircraft that has the US on its flight route. The US govt is stupid and corrupt enought to do that... .... and so maybe I should not have written that. To balance any statistical analysis of this post, I'll throw this in: BUSH GOOD, BUSH GOOD, BUSH GOOD! I SUPPORT EVERYTHING THE US DOES! ALL HAIL KING GEORGE!

    I bet it won't understand sarcasm.

  44. CIA v. Homeland Security by geoff+lane · · Score: 2, Funny

    Isn't that exactly what the CIA was set up to do?

    I wonder if they are doing anything more than searching Google News each morning.

  45. Damn sans-serif fonts... by geobeck · · Score: 2, Funny

    The first thing I thought on reading this headline was "Who the hell is Al? You mean the sidekick from Home Improvement?"

    I guess he would occupy the flannel office.

    --
    Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    1. Re:Damn sans-serif fonts... by AeroIllini · · Score: 1
      I guess he would occupy the flannel office.

      You mean he's the Secretary of Flannel Affairs.

      Their main mandate is to ensure enough ambulances are available for handymen around the country.
      --
      For security, the MD5 hash of this message and sig is 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0.
    2. Re:Damn sans-serif fonts... by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      I don't think so, Tim.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
  46. More like... by benow · · Score: 1

    ...continued excuses for millitary justification. More shit for the greedy f*cks to spend public tax dollars on.

  47. Newspapers? by houghi · · Score: 1

    Go look what countries think themselves.
    Some info in Dutch and French about what the Belgian State Security Service thinks.

    (And I plan on taking a plane next friday. :-)

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  48. Re:Dear GOD! The Americans are spying on us! by Ciarang · · Score: 1

    I'm not a grammar/spelling nazi, really I'm not, but a coo in progress? You mean like a pigeon? Or do you mean a coup?

  49. Shhhhh! by TrebleJunkie · · Score: 1

    Don't tell em that they can save millions of our tax dollars by going to Google News and typing in "Death to America."

    --

    Ed R.Zahurak

    You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.

  50. This is fine... by TheGreatHegemon · · Score: 1

    Unless the AI scanning technology was ever used towards, say, automated censoring of websites or articles with inappropriate information, I fail to see why this is noteworthy...

  51. It could pick up secret communication channels by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's better than just major events. You can apply stats to huge volumes of data, find all sorts of interesting correlations. Such as personals adverts to signal events, stock market rises/falls prior to terrorist events.

    --
    Deleted
  52. Outrageous Quote of the Day by Aqua_boy17 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    While the article says there are restrictions on doing this kind of monitoring within the US, there are no restrictions on media outside the US.
    Nice. So we'll pay attention to 'restrictions' on monitoring our own internal media, while completely disregarding those that protect our private conversations? What a complete bunch of crap. So media is sacrosanct, but the citizen is not? (And to the first person to reply "well if you don't have anything to hide..." to me, may you roast for a very long time in a very warm corner of heck).

    Thanks again to the corporate-political machine for letting us know what utter and complete contempt you hold us in. And no, this isn't just a dig at Bush or his administration. It's direceted at each and every politician who's been bought and paid for by the corporate and special interest lobbies - in other words 95% of them.

    It is way, way past time for this to stop. And it is up to us to stop it.
    --
    What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
  53. Damn Good Thing... by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That we have AIs that can reliably understand Arabic, Urdu, etc., because we sure don't have enough real people that can.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  54. This is the government's job by pyite69 · · Score: 1

    Finally, a reasonable program to see what is happening in the world. Too bad most of it will be classified.

  55. Perish the thought by Ungulate · · Score: 1

    (No hint is given as to how this would apply to syndicated articles written in the US and published abroad.)

    Naw, this administration would never skirt US laws by conducting operations in other countries. I wonder how long it'll take right wing bloggers to start foaming at the mouth about the New York Times jeopardizing our national security with another leak.

    Honestly, I expected this kind of stuff was going on already. Remember Robert Redford's job from "Three Days of the Condor"? He was a "reader" for the CIA - fed all the schemes and dirty tricks he could find into a database so someone could find potential threats.

  56. How about hiring ACTUAL Intelligence to monitor? by bADlOGIN · · Score: 1

    Oh wait.. we're talking about a Republican established government entity operating under a Republican controlled White House & congress... never mind. No ACTUAL Intelligence to be found I guess...

    --
    *** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
  57. Introductions by rocketjam · · Score: 1

    We Americans would like to introduce the rest of the world to our leader, Big Brother.

  58. Why, because it makes a better story this way! by CXI · · Score: 1

    This story wouldn't be interesting without the sensationalism! It has to be there!

  59. The ultimate in "virtual" reality by JetScootr · · Score: 1

    Artificial Intelligence studying Artificial Information...This could start an Artificial War.

    --
    Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
  60. The holy grail of OSINT by Kadin2048 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think it's a little more subtle than that.

    There is a theory, which I have heard articulated from time to time (although I don't know if there's a name for it or not) which says that right before a major event there is a lot of "chatter"; subtle yet distinct signs that something is about to happen, but which are too minor on their own to generate any attention. Once the event happens, in hindsight you can look back and recognize them. It's sort of a reverse butterfly-effect; the assumption is that no matter how good at being secretive you are, you will make some signs in the course of executing your plot, and some of those signs will percolate and be reported in papers somewhere. So you just need to know what to look for.

    So basically what you might do, is take a big pattern-matching AI system, and "teach" it using the media records preceding other big terrorist events. 9/11, London, Madrid, etc. You have it comb through all the world media before those events, and see if you can find patterns, the little things that in retrospect might have alerted you that something was up. Then, thus primed with information and hopefully some patterns, you set it loose on the real-time news feeds.

    In theory -- if the theory holds water, anyway -- the system might then be capable of giving you a warning of something big heading your way, picking up on stuff that a person might not recognize.

    Anyway, I'm not sure if that's the theory that this particular system is going to try and use, but it's one idea that I've heard described; sort of as the 'holy grail' of machine-derived OSINT. More likely, you'd end up with a system that just gives you statistical summaries of the number of anti-US editorials in various countries or something. Useful for the State Department perhaps, but I'm not sure for preventing the next 9/11.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:The holy grail of OSINT by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      My guess is if you implemented something like that, it would point to the memo saying "(Insert name of terrorist leader here) DETERMINED TO STRIKE IN (Insert two-letter abbreviation for your country here)."

      then it would say "Get your ass out of your ears and listen to the people who work for you who are telling you who is going to strike, and work with them to save lives instead of working with your cronies to exploit catastrophes for profit and power."

      And when you tried to give it a turing test, it would say "fuck you, asshole. I want some damn coffee." in response to every question.

      Whaddaya know, I just described the most convincing AI the world will ever see.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
    2. Re:The holy grail of OSINT by smchris · · Score: 1

      My first impression was that it was more subtle too. But I was thinking that it is a way to tell our allies who have less than a free press that we are watching them and they will speak well of the U.S. to their people or we will want to know why.

    3. Re:The holy grail of OSINT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, we need to FORCE them to stop using covers like this: http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4012/newsweekco versyt8.jpg

      They should adopt US values, opinions and standards and get rid of the metric system.

    4. Re:The holy grail of OSINT by dbIII · · Score: 1
      which says that right before a major event there is a lot of "chatter"; subtle yet distinct signs that something is about to happen, but which are too minor on their own to generate any attention

      Good point - as an example three months before 9/11 the head of the CIA called an emergency meeting about Bin Laden but it was too minor to get the attention of the secretary of state - apparently she didn't even bother to accept the invitation (or is lying about it). A large portion of the problem seems to be that the intelligence is being gathered only to be ignored or deliberately misinterpreted by those in charge in several areas - I only have one example for Condi who is supposed to be competant but you could find dozens for Rumsfeld.

    5. Re:The holy grail of OSINT by tooyoung · · Score: 1

      Picture this as a classification problem. Given a set of inputs, the AI will make a classification of threat or non-threat. In order to do this, we must train the AI using example inputs for threats, as well as sample inputs for non-threats. One way to gather example input for non-threats would be to collect the news that intelligence has classified as 'chatter'. Non-threats would be gathered by using news from periods of time when there were no terrorist attacks.

      take a big pattern-matching AI system, and "teach" it using the media records preceding other big terrorist events. 9/11, London, Madrid, etc.

      It should be noted, AI systems that rely on training need many examples to learn from. One would not write a face detection system using 50 sample faces and expect it to perform very well. In work that I have done in this field, we tend to use many thousands of training examples. I'm not sure if we would have sufficient data for this type of training, as large terrorist attacks of the type listed above are fairly rare.

    6. Re:The holy grail of OSINT by smchris · · Score: 1

      Good one.

      It's really the thing that makes the most sense to me. They think the Taliban will be advertising the Jihad Interest Group's Mohammed's birthday attack on the infidel in the newspaper's community activities page?

    7. Re:The holy grail of OSINT by aminorex · · Score: 1

      If Ms. Rice had actually been ignoring the available intelligence, she wouldn't have warned Willie Brown on 9/10, that he should not fly the next day. I think you give her less credit than her accomplishments deserve.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  61. Is it Web 2.0-compliant? by 21mhz · · Score: 1

    Will it mash up a Google News tracker feed on '"United States" threat'?

    --
    My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
  62. Re:Dear GOD! The Americans are spying on us! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think he clearly meant a coupe.

  63. feedback loop by stinky+wizzleteats · · Score: 1

    I don't suppose anyone's considered the possible bad press over this...

  64. Great idea by Afrosheen · · Score: 1

    Personally I think this is a wonderful idea and a great way for the DHS to spend a few million.

      Seriously! I mean, everyone knows terrorists put every attack plan in their local papers. This will go a long way towards letting us in on a public secret in Durkistan or Iraqabad. If we had only had a copy of page D-6 from the Afghanistan Daily Bugle, we would have been able to prevent 9-11. There it was in bold typeface..."Best Terrorist Plot Ever To Blow Up Twin Towers in NYC Starts Tomorrow" along with "Florida Flight School Voted #1 Choice By Hijackers".

      This is basically fuckin' stupid. I can't believe our government even entertains the idea that this might help.

  65. Why ask anything if you are not willing to listen? by kop · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why would you ask an AI to look for threats if you are not even willing to listen to your close friends and allies?

    Read for instance this letter from the French Ambassador to the United States in 2003
    http://www.counterpunch.org/levitte02142003.html

    It clearly warns about the mess a war in Irak would get us all in to.
    It states that Iraq is not a threat and it predicts the rise in terrorism worldwide, the destabilisation of the region and the civil war in Irak that we see now.

    One month after this the whole "freedom fries" thing started.
    http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/sprj.irq .fries/

    This AI will just add data to the heap that is allready ignored.

  66. it's only half the story... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...they are being *cute* and relying on people having zero memory. They are leaving out a full 1/2 of what this is for/could be used for. The DOD and spooks get a lot of fake news and propoganda published overseas. They will use this AI to gauge how their fake stuff is being received by the target populations-and domestically. I don't believe them for a minute that they aren't active domestically. Ihis administration, posse comitatus is a quaint notion, that's about it. The "decider" just issues signing statements with every bill passed that all say basically they "understand" they can do what they want regardless of what the law says because there's a "war on tare" and he's the order giver in chief and etc.

    Anyway, they do it all the time and try to get away with it. Remember the fake fat osama video they tried to pass off? Well, they do it with print, radio, television/video, etc. Just google "government fake news", ton of references out there. They will just keep testing how they go about it until they get it right, foreigners, and US civvies, they *don't care*, it's the same folks to them, you are either a 100% heel clicking supporter or you are with the terrorists.

  67. Working AI?! DHS got it going on, then by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

    The Department of Homeland Security has a plan to get AI which will actually be USEFUL for something?!

    If they pull that off, they'd deserve a Turing award, since no one else has been able to.

    And it has been looking like AI might be a undevelopable field for quite a while. Even the Japanese haven't done much with their fuzzy logic projects.

    Heck AI has been around for longer than the GNU Hurd, and it is about as far along.

    I know I'll get flamed for this... Every DHS-hater, AI researcher (all 3 of them) and Hurd supporter (all 4 of them). :)

    --
    Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  68. What's the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "While there are restrictions on doing this kind of monitoring within the US, there are no restrictions on media outside the US."

    What's the point of having laws if you'd break the spirit of the law outside the US just because you can? If it's OK to do it 'outside the US' then you're saying the law for 'within the US' is wrong too.

  69. From the-everyday-war dept. by Plutonite · · Score: 0, Troll

    Come on. There are always extremely high levels of anti-American sentiment, at all times, in all seasons, including weekends.

    Is it not enough that we have to put up with a government that likes to continously scare the living crap out of it's citizens from danger that doesn't exist, and hides from them danger that does? Now they want additional sources of omg-thyre-gonna-bomb-us ?

    Thanks Dubya, but according to the foreign press sentiment, we should all be in bunkers now chewing on dry biscuits. And if human agents cannot predict criminal attacks on us then I highly doubt some AI ever will.

  70. Tabloids too? by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    Oh my. That could be interesting...

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  71. Who's AL? by hoggoth · · Score: 1

    > AI to Monitor Foreign Press for Threats

    Ummm... who's AI?
    AI GORE?

    --
    - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
  72. CIA, Foreign Esponiage, etc. by jco-slashdot · · Score: 1

    Didn't any ONE of you guys ever see any of the Robert Redford movies, "Sneakers" and "Three Days of the Condor" ?? They told you guys about this kind of stuff (that was already old hat kind of "didn't you already know that" movies in the 80's. Now, it's all new again. Truly, nothing ever changes under the sun. Ask Machevelli - and that was several hundred years ago. :-) Do a Google on "movie robert redford cia" and you'll see that he made several of them, including "All the President's Men" with Dustin Hoffman. i.e., it happens and we have to protect ourselves and you really, really don't want to know what happens at the CIA nor in a real, shooting war zone.

  73. Simulated Military Intelligence by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Last night in NYC I watched as a Heritage Foundation rightwinger, James Jay Carafano (author of The Long War), attacked one of the various serious Iraq pullout plans circulating. It called for 15,000 US/UN troops left behind to ensure Iraqis forces weren't abandoned in a vacuum. Regardless of the prudence of that plan, Carafano told the audience that American troop deployments get 1 in 7 troops actually "on the streets", so that 15K troops would put "500" actual troops on the streets. Someone in the audience shouted at the fool that "15 thousand divided by 7 is over 2000, not 500". Carafano insisted on repeating his Big Lie, refusing to stop lying (or being addled) even after someone in the audience shouted "you can't do math, and you planned this war!"

    Carafano is Heritage Foundation's "Senior Fellow for National Security and Homeland Security". And he can't divide 15,000 by 7, even after several attempts.

    Natural "intelligence" of that tiny caliber is going to be easy to beat with AI.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  74. why have threats in the first place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Sounds utopian, I know, but how about just not make enemies in the first place?

    Keep our fingers out of foreign oil reserves, play nice, tone down our arrogance (believe me, the world sees us as being &@!#^* arrogant, and way far too big for our boots). Make some friends, and play nice? That way, nobody will need to waste time and money trying to bomb the grand ol' USA to bits.

    Makes sense to me.

  75. This tastes strange... by F-3582 · · Score: 1

    This AI won't be called "GW", will it? Is Arsenal Gear in blueprints, already? Heck, how long will it take the Patriots to take full control of the internets... [/paranoia]

  76. Wake up. Please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would some foreign media openly publish such "threats" that they refer to?

    Intelligent people must raise suspicion as soon as scare-phrases such as "threat against the nation" are used. They are not to be taken seriously.

  77. Re:Dear GOD! The Americans are spying on us! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A "coo"?

    What are you, retarded?

  78. Re:Why ask anything if you are not willing to list by evil_breeds · · Score: 1

    You misunderstand the meaning of threat. The US isn't worried about "terrorists" attacking the US or any of its client states. The US is worried about various resource-heavy (read: oil owning) countries developing real democracies, following the will of their people, and therefore stopping following the US marching orders. It isn't even controversial that the US invasion of Iraq would increase terrorism - that was expected. By scanning foreign media the US should be able to pick up on the real threats: people organizing for the purposes of solidarity and democratic rule, wanting to get rid of the US overlords and their mega corporations bent on removing any real threat of democracy. I should note that by "US" I mean the US executive - Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz et al. What they want is very different from what the majority of the American people want.

    --
    "Things should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler" - Einstein
  79. a Beautiful (electronic) mind by NerdyJock · · Score: 0

    What happened? Did the human analysts that used to do this, develop schizophrenia like John Nash? Will AI, eventually develop schizophrenia? And how many false positives are we gonna get out of this?

  80. I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    "To gain victory over any given enemy- you must sink to his moral level....Sun Tzu recognized that 6000 years ago"

    I have read "The Ancient Art of War", the message I got from the text was that force should be used intelligenly and sparingly. The classic senario of Sun Tzu is the story of the 100 conqubines and the greedy emporer. "Sinking to the enemy's moral level" is in my mind the basic point where we differ and is NOT advocated by Sun Tzu's teachings.

    "We've failed at being a great civilization, almost from the outset. I can name no great civilizations based on that definition [resisting the impulse to kill others]; not a single one in the history of the world. Such a value makes a civilization WEAK, not strong."

    Ever hear of a thing called the cold war? Complete anhilation of an opposing civilization is in fact very rare, just as rare as complete harmony between the two. The "reality" you speak of lies somewhere between the two extremes.

    BTW: Your final point depends on your definition of winning.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    1. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I have read "The Ancient Art of War", the message I got from the text was that force should be used intelligenly and sparingly. The classic senario of Sun Tzu is the story of the 100 conqubines and the greedy emporer. "Sinking to the enemy's moral level" is in my mind the basic point where we differ and is NOT advocated by Sun Tzu's teachings.

      Should force be used intelligently and sparingly? YES! But understanding one's enemy is neccessary to the intelligent use of force; and to truly understand one's enemy, you must become that enemy.

      Ever hear of a thing called the cold war?

      Yes- and look at how we won that one: by totally destroying our own middle class and ending up with an economic system that looks surprisingly like the Soviet Communist Model (where you have basically a two-class economic system of winners and losers). The only difference is that we call our party members, stock brokers.

      Complete anhilation of an opposing civilization is in fact very rare, just as rare as complete harmony between the two. The "reality" you speak of lies somewhere between the two extremes.

      True. But that's more a matter of technology than anything else.

      BTW: Your final point depends on your definition of winning.

      In this case, I'd be satisfied with mere survival. In fact, if it wasn't for the other side's genocidal prechings from the mosques, I wouldn't be preaching genocide now.

      Which *might* give us an option, if it wasn't for the martyr effect. It would be hard to do- would have to be one heck of a covert op- but what if we abandoned our "separation of church and state" and adopted a more moderate form of Islam as our state religion? Then we also could open up missionary mosques in other nations- preaching a more moderate form of Islam- and making sure the preachers in other mosques do *not* enjoy physical protection from Allah, making their deaths look like accidents. Eventually, only our mosques would have leaders- taking over the religion.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    2. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      to truly understand one's enemy, you must become that enemy

      That means understanding his culture, family, religion, language, motivations, past behaviour,... The one thing it does not mean is imitating the enemy, that is covered by the use of spies.

      As someone wiser than me once said "war is the failure of politics", now that politics is global the last thing we need is another Roman style failure.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    3. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      That means understanding his culture, family, religion, language, motivations, past behaviour,... The one thing it does not mean is imitating the enemy, that is covered by the use of spies.

      Right now, by and large, Americans don't understand this enemy. They don't understand his culture, the importance of family and religion, those who know his language are few and far between, and everybody seems to want to ignore his motivations and past behavior.

      We committed genocide against the Nazis in WWII- to prevent an even larger genocide of millions.

      As someone wiser than me once said "war is the failure of politics", now that politics is global the last thing we need is another Roman style failure.

      As far as the Islamic nationalists are concerned- you were born a century too late. The failure already happened, globally. Politics is not an adequate solution at this point- it's already failed.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    4. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to realise that overreaction to "islamic nationalists" is what brings them attention in the ME and around the world. Bombing those that are paying attention is doing the opposite of what YOU desire as an outcome.

      The Nazi's attacked the rest of us with a huge fucking army from the center of Europe, where is the "islamo-facist" army? All I see is a few nut-cases with bomb belts and a whole lot of muslims that want the US to fuck off out of their country.

      Global politics has not "failed", the last time that happened the league of nations was disbanded and WW2 broke out. Global politics today consists of the winners of WW2 dividing up the planet via the UNSC, they don't directly attack each other but they do use proxy wars, Israel, Iran, Cuba, ect. When/if global politics fails you will know all about it my friend.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    5. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      You don't seem to realise that overreaction to "islamic nationalists" is what brings them attention in the ME and around the world. Bombing those that are paying attention is doing the opposite of what YOU desire as an outcome.

      No, you don't understand- I WANT to bring attention to them. I want every future sect of every religion to know "If you decide to make conversion-by-suicide-bomber a part of your theology, then you will pay. Not just the suicide bombers, but the preachers, their parents, their children, their cousins, the entire world will pay for your crime." I want them to be as infamous as the Nazis- and just as dead.

      The Nazi's attacked the rest of us with a huge fucking army from the center of Europe, where is the "islamo-facist" army? All I see is a few nut-cases with bomb belts and a whole lot of muslims that want the US to fuck off out of their country.

      I see 10 million nut-cases with bomb belts- and a bunch of preachers trying to make more by blaming the US presence in their countries for everything from the cost of bread to whether or not rain will fall tomorrow. You obviously have never read the Koran or paid attention to what their preachers are saying in the mosques. Have you even ever been to a mosque?

      Global politics has not "failed", the last time that happened the league of nations was disbanded and WW2 broke out.

      And RIGHT NOW we're in the midst of WWIII, with a set of armies 10 million strong swearing to see the rest of the world Islamic or dead. Our one saving grace? None of these armies are more than about 3 million strong individually- and their definition of Islamic does not include the other armies.

      Global politics today consists of the winners of WW2 dividing up the planet via the UNSC, they don't directly attack each other but they do use proxy wars, Israel, Iran, Cuba, ect. When/if global politics fails you will know all about it my friend.

      I do know all about it- and I know that description of global politics is about 15 years out of date. The main development since then is that certain Islamic sects have discovered Sola Scriptura- and by extention, Sola Jihad (if you don't mind me mixing languages to describe the new idea that bin Laden added to Islamic theology of individuals being allowed to decide for themselves when to declare holy wars depending on their individual reading of the Koran).

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    6. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      If that really is your view of the world today I feel sorry for you. There is not that much time left to enjoy the relatively peacefull world we have now (as compared to the last five decades I have wittnesed first hand). We have real potential for a cRash of civilizations due to "peak-oil" and the "sixth great extinction". The current skirmish in the ME is a just another proxy war between the five permenant members, it will get worse as oil, food and water resources dry up around the planet over the next 50 years or so.

      "I see 10 million nut-cases with bomb belts"

      Where? Small "doomsday" groups such as OBL's followers pop up in every war, OBL has pulled off some spectacular stunts but his CIA trained group are nothing new to politics or warfare. AQ may have 10 even 100 million sympathisers but I assure you they are not all wearing bomb belts and they do not all want OBL in charge. However keep shooting up their villages and cities and they will happily assist ANYONE in their endevours to kill you. How popular is Hezbolla (sic?) since the Lebannon mis-adventure? They no longer need anything from Iran, all of Lebannon now thinks they are fucking heros.

      ""If you decide to make conversion-by-suicide-bomber a part of your theology, then you will pay. Not just the suicide bombers, but the preachers, their parents, their children, their cousins, the entire world will pay for your crime.""

      That sentiment is your crime and is the reason people want to kill you. Like OBL you have every "right" to go off and change the world by preaching death and destruction, I hope to be around for a few more decades to see how it pans out for you.

      OTOH: If you are trully interested in "understanding the enemy" I can recommend no better starting point than Robert Fisk.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    7. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      If that really is your view of the world today I feel sorry for you. There is not that much time left to enjoy the relatively peacefull world we have now (as compared to the last five decades I have wittnesed first hand). We have real potential for a cRash of civilizations due to "peak-oil" and the "sixth great extinction". The current skirmish in the ME is a just another proxy war between the five permenant members, it will get worse as oil, food and water resources dry up around the planet over the next 50 years or so.

      If you haven't noticed, that so-called "skirmish in the Middle East" has had incidents in every country in Eurpoe, in India, in Japan, in China, in Canada, in Mexico, in Russia, in several African countries, and yes, at least 5 incidents I'm aware of in the United States in the past 15 years. I'd call that a World War, not just a skirmish in the Middle East. And yes, I agree- it will get worse before it gets better, which is damn good reason to STOP IT NOW whatever the cost.

      Where? Small "doomsday" groups such as OBL's followers pop up in every war, OBL has pulled off some spectacular stunts but his CIA trained group are nothing new to politics or warfare.

      They are one of 12 different sects that I'm aware of vying to create the great Islamic One World Caliphate- and OBL's group does have something new in THEOLOGY, if not in politics or warfare: The Sole Man Jihad.

      AQ may have 10 even 100 million sympathisers but I assure you they are not all wearing bomb belts and they do not all want OBL in charge.

      Heck, I'd be surprised if his group had even 50,000 followers world wide. But his is not the only sect of Islam that thinks this way.

      However keep shooting up their villages and cities and they will happily assist ANYONE in their endevours to kill you. How popular is Hezbolla (sic?) since the Lebannon mis-adventure?

      Very- they're polling to take over the Parliment after the next elections, if the BBC is to be believed. Several Samaritans in the region hope that they'll give them the in to get rid of Israel.

      They no longer need anything from Iran, all of Lebannon now thinks they are fucking heros.

      They didn't need anyting from Iran to begin with- that's a piece of American propaganda- they had their support from Syria.

      That sentiment is your crime and is the reason people want to kill you. Like OBL you have every "right" to go off and change the world by preaching death and destruction, I hope to be around for a few more decades to see how it pans out for you.

      If WWIII lasts another 5 years, it will be too late for even this tactic- and how it will pan out is your forcible conversion to Islam (or death- they always seem to allow that out).

      OTOH: If you are trully interested in "understanding the enemy" I can recommend no better starting point than Robert Fisk.

      He's one of my sources- but he fails in one important way- he's not Shi'a himself, or any of the other more dangerous sects of Islam. The real primary source for understanding this enemy is al Jeezera's website- and also some of the more outspoken preachers on http://www.memritv.com/. Why go second hand, when the terrorists themselves are so willing to tell you what they think (though it does help to be able to read Arabic).

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    8. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Like I said: Lot's of luck changing the world but I still think the doctrine of "premtive and overwhelming force" so beloved by the neo-cons is like pouring petrol onto smoldering ashes. You are wittnessing the death throws of medievil style theocracies as a governing force, the only way that kind of ideology will make a comeback is if the crash of civilization comes to fruition and even then it will be your christian neighbours forcing it on to you.

      Preachers say some terrible things, so does talkback radio and those evangelical TV shows. Hate speech is protected under the US constitution, ( provided your not the target, eh? )

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    9. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Like I said: Lot's of luck changing the world but I still think the doctrine of "premtive and overwhelming force" so beloved by the neo-cons is like pouring petrol onto smoldering ashes

      And I think there's an obvious reason why that is. They've got the preemptive part right, but the neocons are *extremely* deficient in the overwhelming part. Based on some of the more conservative plans from generals who got fired for being conservative, we're short at least 7 million troops in Iraq and 3 million in Afghanistan- and we've left *NO* reserve for protecting the United States. The current "stay the course" tactic is not just pouring petrol onto smoldering ashes, it's also digging a trench from the fire straight to your tent first! That's part of the reason why I believe it's too late to do anything; they've screwed it up so badly already that it's going to be *really hard* to end the war anytime in the next thousand years.

      You are wittnessing the death throws of medievil style theocracies as a governing force, the only way that kind of ideology will make a comeback is if the crash of civilization comes to fruition and even then it will be your christian neighbours forcing it on to you.

      That kind of theology is already making a comeback, and the reason is obvious: The culture of death does not offer an evolutionarily sustainable lifestyle. The only question left is, can we morph democracy into an evolutionarily sustainable lifestyle? Or will we continue making the same mistake that gives theocracies their power?

      Preachers say some terrible things, so does talkback radio and those evangelical TV shows. Hate speech is protected under the US constitution, ( provided your not the target, eh? )

      It is protected- but that's not the point. The point is that to find your enemy's weaknesses, you need to listen to the people who are making their plans. Yes, Michael Savage says much the same sort of thing on his radio show- but I've yet to hear of a single *individual* taking him literally. Tens of millions of Islamics take these preachers seriously- and have attacked us in the past- and will do so in the future.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    10. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      10 million troops! Sorry, but you really are just as nutty as the people you are sterotyping.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    11. Re:I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      10 million troops! Sorry, but you really are just as nutty as the people you are sterotyping.

      That's what it would take, even with our mechanicized, computerized, almost cyborgized modern "Army of One" troops, to truly pacify Iraq and Afghanistan. You basically need one soldier to watch, live with, follow around, and shaddow every single citizen of those countries. You need somebody on site no matter where people in that country go, no matter what they are doing. That is the level of force it would take with convetional troops.

      Since we don't have those troops, our second most effective strategy is the theological one. God has promised, in the Koran, to take care of certain people, to raise to rulership certain cities. If those cities were to disappear, faith in a literal interpretation of the Koran would become impossible. Nobody even has to die- we can tell the countries involved that we will do it and give them 14-25 days for evacuation. Those who are our enemies will of course refuse to evacuate; and they will know the power of the Great Satan to create Hell on Earth.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.