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Trojan Installs Anti-Virus, Removes Other Malware

An anonymous reader writes "SpamThru takes the game to a new level. The new virus uses an anti-virus engine to remove potential 'rival' infectious code." From the article: "At start-up, the Trojan requests and loads a DLL from the author's command-and-control server. This then downloads a pirated copy of Kaspersky AntiVirus for WinGate into a concealed directory on the infected system. It patches the license signature check in-memory in the Kaspersky DLL to avoid having Kaspersky refuse to run due to an invalid or expired license, Stewart said. Ten minutes after the download of the DLL, it begins to scan the system for malware, skipping files which it detects are part of its own installation."

202 comments

  1. Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    It sounds a little too intelligent to have been designed by humans.

    Cyclons? I hear they are hot!

    1. Re:Hmm.. by Aladrin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Cylons, I think you mean. And yeah, there's 2 or 3 that are pretty awesome. Nothing like having sextuplets for... well, sex.

      But I do agree that this guy is either extremely forward thinking, or a madman. His own virus could prevent any further viruses he writes... That's... Stupid. :D

      I was immediately outraged at the illegal install of software, but then I remembered the virus itself was illegal anyhow, so it didn't much matter. It's like murdering everyone in a church on Sunday, and then spraypainting graffiti on the walls. Somehow, it's just not that much worse.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Hmm.. by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's like murdering everyone in a church on Sunday, and then spraypainting graffiti on the walls.

            Why spraypaint when you can use all the blood - it just look so much cooler, uh, wait...

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:Hmm.. by Doctor+Crumb · · Score: 1

      Depending on his method of detecting/ignoring his own virus; if done right, he could be looking for a signature that his future virii share.

    4. Re:Hmm.. by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      The Cylons were created by Man
      They rebelled
      They evolved
      There are many copies
      And they have a plan

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    5. Re:Hmm.. by ATMD · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      Nobody else has this sig.
    6. Re:Hmm.. by Axeus · · Score: 1

      The virus downloads the anti-virus software from a predefined location that he controls. Thus, he would only need to update that software to exclude his new virus, and the old virus would automatically pick it up, so there wouldn't be a conflict.

    7. Re:Hmm.. by kryptkpr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This wouldn't make sense, because anti-virus vendors would then be able to take advantage of the same signature to prevent all of his future viruses.

      --
      DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
    8. Re:Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "was immediately outraged at the illegal install of software, but then I remembered the virus itself was illegal anyhow"

      Since this looks like someone attempting to do something beneficial to the end users of infected boxes, I have to wonder why they chose to use Kaspersky over something like AVG that is free to use and IMHO works just as well or better (Not that I have anything against using pirated software myself;), but why bring that headache to others?

    9. Re:Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      But I do agree that this guy is ... extremely forward thinking

      His own virus could prevent any further viruses he writes

      Can those two statements coexist?

      I think it would be particularly cool to see this become a trend in trojans. Instead of getting bogged down with 12039520358 viruses, they will battle it out until only a few can exist simultaneously on a machine. Granted, having no viruses would be better than having a few, but seems it could cap the amount of infection on any given machine.
    10. Re:Hmm.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) Words change. Language changes. Don't bother fighting it.

      2) Why not use 'viruses' to mean 'more than one biological virus', and 'virii' to me 'more than one computer virus'?

    11. Re:Hmm.. by x2A · · Score: 1

      "Why not use 'viruses' to mean 'more than one biological virus', and 'virii' to me 'more than one computer virus'?"

      Becuase pseudo-latin is for kids?

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    12. Re:Hmm.. by x2A · · Score: 1

      hehe, perhaps a marketting ploy, get the name Kaspersky out there, as something that a virus writer, someone who knows more about how viruses work than anybody, would use themselves to protect against infection... in fact, it's so good, that the virus itself has to make sure it installs a hacked version otherwise it would be detected :-p

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    13. Re:Hmm.. by x2A · · Score: 1

      We'd be looking at viruses that have to keep a computer running as long as possible in order to triumph over rival viruses; symbiotic computer viruses. Neat!

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    14. Re:Hmm.. by tranceyboy · · Score: 1

      No NO sounds like an insider job... LOL someone knows Kapersky to well...

      --
      "Too bad that bureaucrats' hunger for power is never matched by greater quantities of wisdom or intelligence!!--Could it
    15. Re:Hmm.. by DrSkwid · · Score: 1


      If no-one tries to define correct use, confusion will reign.

      Perhaps we should abandon teaching grammar and spelling altogether and see what changes then.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    16. Re:Hmm.. by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Nothing like having sextuplets for... well, sex.

      Sixtuplets, you mean?

    17. Re:Hmm.. by Aladrin · · Score: 1
      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    18. Re:Hmm.. by Maximilio · · Score: 1
      Much of what people teach as "proper" English (or Latin, for that matter) was codified by royalty as a shibboleth -- exotic rules that took plenty of spare time to memorize (time that commoners didn't have), in order to offset the increasing literacy of the public in the era of the printing press.

      Usage is defined by those who use a language, and there is no such thing as better or worse usage. What matters is whether it's comprehensible. In that context virii may not be "correct" Latin but only a doofus or someone with very poor language skills indeed is going to miss that it means more than one virus. Furthermore, since we are speaking English, not Latin, we don't need to concern ourselves with using proper Latin declension of nouns, do we?

      English is not even derived from Latin, and so since we're borrowing a word into English, we are more or less free to mangle it as we wish.

    19. Re:Hmm.. by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      Normal people say viruses. Only people trying to sound geek-cool say virii, but they're wrong, they sound like wanna-be dorks. I bet the poster wouldn't say it out loud.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    20. Re:Hmm.. by Maximilio · · Score: 1

      Actually I had a highly competent co-worker who consistently referred to them as virii, as well as referring to multiple instances as instii. And he was anything but quiet vocally.

    21. Re:Hmm.. by GeorgeS069 · · Score: 1

      "Perhaps we should abandon teaching grammar and spelling altogether and see what changes then."

      you mean like the Ebonics idea?

      what ever did happen with that idea?

      --
      I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
  2. Potential for good, and evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    Wake me up when it also installs linux.

    1. Re:Potential for good, and evil by Jessta · · Score: 1

      Pretty much evil. First it's malicious software that allows a remote user to command your machine. Second it install anti-virus software that chews up computing resources with out doing anything useful.

      --
      ...and that is all I have to say about that.
      http://jessta.id.au
    2. Re:Potential for good, and evil by joe+155 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Second it install anti-virus software that chews up computing resources with out doing anything useful."

      I wouldn't say that. I must say that in principle I am against all software which you can't control and know the nature of, but if you've got infected by this then you may well have got infected by a whole host of other viruses - so this seems like a good thing.

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    3. Re:Potential for good, and evil by Jessta · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Removing other malicious software doesn't make the machine at all secure. It just eventually frees up computing resources to the malicious software controller has a more efficient botnet.

      --
      ...and that is all I have to say about that.
      http://jessta.id.au
    4. Re:Potential for good, and evil by joe+155 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Indeed, it isn't secure, and in fact it'll still be part of a bot net (as I understand it), but the point I was making was that this is likely to have happened anyway - these computers are already as "owned" as they are likely to get. So a trade off between being "owned" by someone who wants to steal your bank data, your passwords, and send out spam, or just being "owned" by someone who wants to do Denial of Service attakcs and send spam

      If it's a choice i'll take the latter... Of course if there was an option which was open-source and didn't have it's own malware then maybe we'd really be on to a winner.

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    5. Re:Potential for good, and evil by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 5, Funny

      > Second it install anti-virus software that chews up computing resources with out doing anything useful.

      If *that* were true, it would have installed NAV.

      *cough*

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    6. Re:Potential for good, and evil by DestinyBWL · · Score: 3, Informative

      It "seems" like a good thing, but there are three major reasons why it isn't:

      A) It does so without you being aware.
      B) It illegally installs software that you do not have a license for.
      C) Most modern viruses and trojans are so complex that the only way to remove them is by disabling system restore and running thorough scans in safe mode and/or boot time scans.

      So not only do you have no control over it and become an "unexpected software pirate", but you likely don't even get rid of the other trojans/viruses on your computer.

      Plug: I have a step-by-step process writeup intended for the average joe on removing viruses at http://www.modemhelp.net/antivirus/

      --
      Bradford Liedel
      ModemHelp.Net

      --
      Bradford L.
      http://www.modemhelp.net
    7. Re:Potential for good, and evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      For Dan Halbert, the road to Tycho began in college--when Lissa Lenz asked to borrow his computer. Hers had broken down, and unless she could borrow another, she would fail her midterm project. There was no one she dared ask, except Dan.

      This put Dan in a dilemma. He had to help her--but if he lent her his computer, she might read his books. Aside from the fact that you could go to prison for many years for letting someone else read your books, the very idea shocked him at first. Like everyone, he had been taught since elementary school that sharing books was nasty and wrong--something that only pirates would do.

      And there wasn't much chance that the SPA--the Software Protection Authority--would fail to catch him. In his software class, Dan had learned that each book had a copyright monitor that reported when and where it was read, and by whom, to Central Licensing. (They used this information to catch reading pirates, but also to sell personal interest profiles to retailers.) The next time his computer was networked, Central Licensing would find out. He, as computer owner, would receive the harshest punishment--for not taking pains to prevent the crime.

      Of course, Lissa did not necessarily intend to read his books. She might want the computer only to write her midterm. But Dan knew she came from a middle-class family and could hardly afford the tuition, let alone her reading fees. Reading his books might be the only way she could graduate. He understood this situation; he himself had had to borrow to pay for all the research papers he read. (10% of those fees went to the researchers who wrote the papers; since Dan aimed for an academic career, he could hope that his own research papers, if frequently referenced, would bring in enough to repay this loan.)

      Later on, Dan would learn there was a time when anyone could go to the library and read journal articles, and even books, without having to pay. There were independent scholars who read thousands of pages without government library grants. But in the 1990s, both commercial and nonprofit journal publishers had begun charging fees for access. By 2047, libraries offering free public access to scholarly literature were a dim memory.

      There were ways, of course, to get around the SPA and Central Licensing. They were themselves illegal. Dan had had a classmate in software, Frank Martucci, who had obtained an illicit debugging tool, and used it to skip over the copyright monitor code when reading books. But he had told too many friends about it, and one of them turned him in to the SPA for a reward (students deep in debt were easily tempted into betrayal). In 2047, Frank was in prison, not for pirate reading, but for possessing a debugger.

      Dan would later learn that there was a time when anyone could have debugging tools. There were even free debugging tools available on CD or downloadable over the net. But ordinary users started using them to bypass copyright monitors, and eventually a judge ruled that this had become their principal use in actual practice. This meant they were illegal; the debuggers' developers were sent to prison.

      Programmers still needed debugging tools, of course, but debugger vendors in 2047 distributed numbered copies only, and only to officially licensed and bonded programmers. The debugger Dan used in software class was kept behind a special firewall so that it could be used only for class exercises.

      It was also possible to bypass the copyright monitors by installing a modified system kernel. Dan would eventually find out about the free kernels, even entire free operating systems, that had existed around the turn of the century. But not only were they illegal, like debuggers--you could not install one if you had one, without knowing your computer's root password. And neither the FBI nor Microsoft Support would tell you that.

      Dan concluded that he couldn't simply lend Lissa his computer. But he couldn't refuse to help her, because he loved her. Every chance to speak with her filled him with

    8. Re:Potential for good, and evil by inca34 · · Score: 3, Funny

      So did they win? Tycho, that is... or is there something I need to pay for so I can read it? ;)

    9. Re:Potential for good, and evil by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >It just eventually frees up computing resources to the malicious software controller has a more efficient botnet.

      Give the man a cigar. This is exactly like parasites which strengthen their host.

    10. Re:Potential for good, and evil by ArwynH · · Score: 4, Informative

      Copyright Infringement Alarm!!!

      A bit amusing in the context, but let's be fair here, when you post someone elses work, please give them credit!

      This is RMS's 'Right to Read'. It is copyrighted under a very free license. All you have to do is give credit to the writer. That is something most people do without thinking, because it is the Right Thing to Do.

      Anyway, in case the AC gets modded into copyright infringement hell, the orignal text, aswell as some updated comments are available here. It's an interesting read.

    11. Re:Potential for good, and evil by inviolet · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Give the man a cigar. This is exactly like parasites which strengthen their host.

      Perhaps this is the future of the internet? A competition among virus authors to keep their host machines clean of competing viruses?

      Considering what an unbelievable resource hog my antivirus software is, in the future I might actually do better to let my machine get infected and rely on the infection to symbiotically keep everything else off.

      It's the merger of computation and biology. And it might be more efficient than paying a discrete third-party for antivirus software. Think of it as paying for your antivirus protection with CPU cycles rather than dollars.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    12. Re:Potential for good, and evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the summary,
      "The new virus uses an anti-virus engine to remove potential 'rival' infectious code."

      So it's pretty obvious that it would actually uninstall NAV...

    13. Re:Potential for good, and evil by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      The ultimate virus

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  3. This is great! by rzei · · Score: 1

    Hopefully we will see a new "virus" war, hasn't it been quite a while since the last one?

    (Or maybe I have just missed it, partly because at least I'm not aware of running any viruses on my Kubuntu system. Though, I guess most of people whose computers host viruses don't have the slightest clue it even being possible. Maybe I should at least check for rootkits :) )

    1. Re:This is great! by Mikya · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hopefully we will see a new "virus" war, hasn't it been quite a while since the last one?

      There's a reason for all those extra cores in the upcoming processors. :)

    2. Re:This is great! by UPi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was wondering how long before this actually happened. Back when my web server was under a barrage of malformed requests from infected IIS installations, I had the urge to create a script which would retaliate with exploiting, gaining access and patching the zombified computer... or at least, shut it down.

      While I never actually did this, mostly due to lack of time and for fear of possible lawsuit, it was certainly possible. So now it's a reality, thanks to... whoever. I think it's a Good Thing.

    3. Re:This is great! by raduf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How long will it be before somebody lobotomizes this to just install the anti-virus? Could be a new age in the spam wars...

    4. Re:This is great! by iMouse · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wait! I have the answer! Just install WinAntiVirus and WinAntiSpyware Pro 2006! It'll download the Trojan, you pay your $24 or whatever, and it all disappears!

      Wait...what's that "annoying as hell" flashing icon in my taskbar for...?

    5. Re:This is great! by risk+one · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that in the blaster days there was a copycat worm that downloaded the microsoft anti-blaster patch and installed it (in fact I know there was, because I got 'hit' with it).

      It's a nice way to fight zombies, and it might go some way to doing what legal/conventional means have failed to do by using the same viral nature of the original malware to clean the internet up. (While still trying to copy itself from cleaned pc's). The only problem with this is (besides the ethical bit about fighting fire with fire, which I don't really care about) is that the users won't know about it.

      Getting infected to the point of having to have somebody clean your system up and install ativirus/firewall/antispyware and a safe browser and email client is a learning experience about how dangerous the internet is these days. If people have their system cleaned up without realizing it, the system may be clean but the people are none the wiser. The best thing, I think would be to install free (as in beer) software, hiding it just until all scans are done and the system has been cleaned and protected, and then, informing the user in some clear way what has happened and what they can do about preventing it in the future, and that they should probably get their system checked out by a human. It would have to do so in some way that doesn't get mistaken for a web-ad, like replacing the wallpaper with the message.

      The problem with this scheme of course is that once they get their machine cleaned out the machine won't be spreading the worm anymore and it will lose out to other worms that have the luxury of staying completely still. Maybe if you let the worm hide for two weeks, and then inform the user...

    6. Re:This is great! by Hallucienda · · Score: 1

      How's it a good thing when it takes control of the pc and spams everyone to death. all it is doing is eliminating any competition?!

    7. Re:This is great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I had always thought that the final war that would decimate mankind would be the war between the
      toilet paper-overs and the toilet paper-unders...

      Oddly enough, today's post was brought to you by the kaptchka 'perfumed'

    8. Re:This is great! by Tom · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Back in the days I actually installed this on my webserver. It was only after I had it running for a while that the number of exploited windos servers attacking me dropped. I'm very sure that there is a kind of ground layer of infected PCs and servers that will never be cleaned up by their admins.

      In fact, I think there's a much larger percentage where something-bad-and-visible-happening-to-the-machine is the most reliable way to get its clueless idiot users to reinstall, activate the firewall and/or run a damn virus scanner.

      Remember: 10 years ago, the script kiddies taking over your machine wanted to shut it down, just to show you who's boss. Today, the organized criminals taking over yourr machine want it to stay up, so they can push as much spam out as possible.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    9. Re:This is great! by LordMaxxon · · Score: 0

      I seem to remember reading something like this once... CS students would design programs that would fight within a controlled server. The robotour and droidbattles games for Linux are based on this idea.

    10. Re:This is great! by StarfishOne · · Score: 5, Funny

      Graphical Processing Unit, Physics Processing Unit,... Virus Processing Unit? :)

      It should be noted though, that a "Virus Accelerator Board" is not a very good name from a marketing perspective! :P

    11. Re:This is great! by scottv67 · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think that in the blaster days there was a copycat worm that downloaded the microsoft anti-blaster patch and installed it...

      That would be Welchia:
      http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup. jsp?docid=2003-081815-2308-99

      ...(in fact I know there was, because I got 'hit' with it).

      The only bad thing about Welchia (aside from it installing patches on your system without your permission) was that it did not throttle its traffic when it came to looking for new machines to patch. It flooded or swamped network segments as it probed new machines to work on. If Welchia had been a little more subtle with its scanning, Welchia's presence would have been less of an issue.

    12. Re:This is great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right...my concern when running Linux is what I might be unknowingly passing on to friends and family who are windows users. For that reason, I will rarely include an attachment in my emails and try not to forward anything I receive. I do check routinely for rootkits, but must admit I don't normally check my outgoing mail with clamav as I should.

    13. Re:This is great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      There's a reason for all those extra cores in the upcoming processors. :)


      And the reason is for spammers to play real-life Core Wars?

    14. Re:This is great! by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      It might have been Code Red rather than blaster, but wasn't there a Perl script that was placed on a webserver that would be triggered by a Code Red/Blaster attacked and then it would perform the patch only on the machine it was attacked by? This was year ago though, and my mind is fuzzy so who knows.

    15. Re:This is great! by joe+155 · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Maybe I should at least check for rootkits"

      You seem to say that as a joke, but I will answer seriously - you should. Just because you use Linux doesn't mean that you won't get rootkit'd... I'm not sure about Kubuntu, but with fedora it comes as a default with SSH runing and allowing root login - if you don't stop that /var/log/secure quickly gets longer than your arm and sooner or later someone will be in... and the rootkits are never far behind.

      You should put something like RKhunter on a clean install ideally so you can keep a check on whats going on. Also chkrootkit is quite good, although I find it a lot harder to read.

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    16. Re:This is great! by v1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You would think the authors of the "botnet takeover" viruses would make them such that once they gained control of a computer, that they would do just this... patch the vulnerability that they used to get in in the first place, to prevent "compettion" on the owned system?

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    17. Re:This is great! by Abreu · · Score: 1

      It should be noted though, that a "Virus Accelerator Board" is not a very good name from a marketing perspective! :P

      You just have to put a nice marketing spin on the name... Like "Internet App Accelerator" or "Web code facilitator", etc.

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    18. Re:This is great! by Abreu · · Score: 1

      I remember reading somewhere (in Fiction) about some geneticist that was working in an altered HIV virus that destroyed the original HIV virus and malignant cells...

      Basically a sexually transmitted AIDS vaccine...

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    19. Re:This is great! by Ruff_ilb · · Score: 4, Funny

      Viral marketing?

      --
      http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
    20. Re:This is great! by raduf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only problem with this approach is that it's illegal. And not just in the sense it's "not nice", it's actually risky: one machine in a thousand may get broken, and the owner can sue you. So anything you do you do as a criminal, meaning both risk and absolutely no recognition. I don't think many would do something as difficult for free and completely anonymous. People are just not that altruistic.

      The official approach, Automatic Updates, is almost as good. Unfortunately Microsoft's main motivation is to make money, and working software is only a side effect (I don't find anything evil in that btw, MS has done more for IT then any other company). So the system isn't perfect, updates may be late or Automatic Updates may not be enabled. The "virus" way is better because if affects exactly the kind of targets normal trojans do. Bigger the disease, better the cure. It's almost biological in nature.

      The problem with this scheme of course is that once they get their machine cleaned out the machine won't be spreading the worm anymore and it will lose out to other worms that have the luxury of staying completely still. Maybe if you let the worm hide for two weeks, and then inform the user...

      Why? If the machine gets cleaned means it won't be infected anymore, but the existing software can function very well. That's why a compromised machine is compromised forever: you never know what may be lurking in there.

    21. Re:This is great! by StarfishOne · · Score: 1

      Touché, a nicely found pun! :)

      One can wonder though if the viral marketing of virus accelerator boards improves by using their own virus accelerator boards in an attempt to accelerate their own viral marketing. :P

      Hmm.. can the Singularity still be avoided? :D

    22. Re:This is great! by Khabok · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How about a dedicated antivirus board? I'm on a Mac so I dunno, but everyone around me is constantly complaining about the CPU load for antivirus software.

      Imagine, then, a cheap processor (an Intel embedded-grade unit, for instance, running about 100-150 mhz) connecting to a new slot on the motherboard that runs background virus scans while your HD(s) is(are) idle. Got sensitive data or a long vulnerability list? Drop fifty, hundred bucks and upgrade the card.

      CPU load isn't the only reason for this either. Vista is trying to kill off antivirus software, remember? This could be a chance for hardware manufacturers to get McAfee, Norton, Symantec, and all them good ol' boys right back into the ball-game.

      Dell? Are you listening? ...Beuller?

    23. Re:This is great! by jZnat · · Score: 2, Funny

      And then the Linux users can utilise that extra processing power for more SETI@Home stuff. Awesome!

      --
      'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
    24. Re:This is great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's a Good Thing.

      Except for the part where it uses your computer to send out spam.

    25. Re:This is great! by Durzel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Although it may not have applied in this case there could also have been technical reasons why a patch wasn't applied, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that a patch - even a MS one - has caused complications in other software that is installed. Automatically assuming the sysadmin is incompetent and patching their system for them and potentially breaking their business-critical application suite is not "a good thing" imo.

      A better solution would've been to flash a message up on screen basically saying something along the lines of "I got in to your system because it has a vulnerability - either patch it or block the listening port to trusted hosts only or next time the real virus might get in" might've been a better solution.

    26. Re:This is great! by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think that most of the slowdown with antiviral software comes from the processor usage, but rather from it having to read every file you try to access before you access it. My NAV at work was set up to scan every single file every single time it was opened. That's a major resource hog. Espcially since things like txt or XML files (which can get large) have 0 chance of maintaining viruses. A smart virus scanner may just do an md5 sum of the file, and then it it hasn't changed, then don't bother scanning. Although I don't know if that would be any faster. Myself, I use Linux at home, so I don't worry so much about virus scanners.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    27. Re:This is great! by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This makes me wonder if you could make money by remotely managing somebody's computer for them. Install all the updates, make sure everything runs smoothly, clean off the malware and viruses. You could probably get the system automated. I know a lot of people who's computers are always taken over by viruses, or they just end up installing stuff that they use once and never again (I don't know why windows develops problems when you install too many programs, my Linux box has hundreds of programs installed, and doesn't slow down a bit. Anyway, I think there's a lot of people who'd be willing to pay a monthly subscription fee if you kept their coomputer running fast and organized. With all the required updates and stuff. I think Dell could offer something like this to their customers. Although they probably make more money when they buy a new computer every year when their old one gets slow.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    28. Re:This is great! by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1
      A better solution would've been to flash a message up on screen basically saying something along the lines of "I got in to your system because it has a vulnerability - either patch it or block the listening port to trusted hosts only or next time the real virus might get in" might've been a better solution.

      Your assuming two things that may not be true.

      1. That the computer is not a network resource(server), and that someone will actually check on it in a reasonable amount of time.
      2. That the user will not ignore the message in the first place. "Look another popup, I get like 50 a day!"

      Now breaking TCP/IP or just issuing a shutdown command seems like a good way to remove there infected computer from the breeding pool.

    29. Re:This is great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I never actually did this, mostly due to lack of time and for fear of possible lawsuit, it was certainly possible. So now it's a reality, thanks to... whoever. I think it's a Good Thing.

      What we really need is for the anti-virsus or anti-spamware companies have their software do this and install a "free reduced feature" copy on the virsused machine. The anti-virus/anti-spam company gets to use targetted viral/spam marketting to potential consumers that have been identified as being infected with bad software. As far as your legal end, we need to work on it being sort of like if you are attacked physically then you have the right to use force to defend yourself. (That applies in most US states.) Part of me wants to say that the anti-virsus eval copy should perform a one time scan and clean on that one infected machine and then do a little ballon pop of "you have viruses" and your infected machine was just disinfected from our licensed registered user. Our software ran a one time scan of your systems detected and removed NN virsuses from your system.

      IF they want to be really nasty the anti-virus companies could put some leagalese in there that their software has detected a hacking attempt coming from the infected computer and our software has just scanned your computer for log files to be used in legal action against you if you are determined to be hacking into one of our defended companies again. We give a 3 strikes policy before legal action is brought against you, this is your X strike.

      O.k. My evil gene is acting up today.

    30. Re:This is great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "but with fedora it comes as a default with SSH runing and allowing root login - if you don't stop that /var/log/secure quickly gets longer than your arm and sooner or later someone will be in... and the rootkits are never far behind."

      I am behind an hardware firewall, ssh can't be used by anyone except in my own local network of three computers.
      There is no ssh by default in Ubuntu/Kubuntu. Yes, there's ssh in fedora on by default but fedora is a linux enthusiast distro, who likes bleeding edge software. (fast integration of new technologies like SeLinux, latest gcc optimizations, java apps compiled with GCJ.. Red Hat Linux 9 was already bleeding, it was the first distro with NPTL on.)

      I think newbies really, really shouldn't be using fedora. It's just too much bleeding edge without any guarantees of stability. Fedora Core 5 by default had a 2.6.15 kernel, now with the updates it has the 2.6.18. Fedora is like a mix of Debian Stable + Debian Testing. Some packages backports security updates, others are directly updated. It would be insane for someone who doesn't know he must shut the fuck up of ssh to use Fedora, it's asking for troubles.

    31. Re:This is great! by theArtificial · · Score: 0

      Several do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agobot/ Agobot/Phatbot is one that patches the exploits it uses to get in to prevent competition.

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    32. Re:This is great! by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1
      How about a dedicated antivirus board? I'm on a Mac so I dunno, but everyone around me is constantly complaining about the CPU load for antivirus software.


      Apparently everyone around you is using Norton or McAfee. Point them over to AVG if it's a personal machine. If it's a business then point them to F-Prot. F-Prot is a good scanner and has very cheap volume licensing.

      Really, though, you can run Windows without a virus scanner. You just have to have some common sense. Use a non-admin account. Use a firewall, preferably hardware (or a dedicated Linux/*BSD box). Don't use Internet Explorer. Don't download and install random programs from all over the place, especially if it's cursors/screensavers/fire sharing/etc. Also be very suspicious of "free" software if it's not Free Software/Open Source.
      --
      "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
    33. Re:This is great! by Matthew+Bafford · · Score: 1
      This makes me wonder if you could make money by remotely managing somebody's computer for them.

      If you listen to XM talk channels long enough, you're going to hear commercials for several different companies that are doing exactly this. I don't know if they actually make money, but they're certainly giving it a go.

    34. Re:This is great! by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      (I don't find anything evil in that btw, MS has done more for IT then any other company)

      More harm, you mean? 'Cause MS has probably singlehandedly set the computer industry back years due to the massive amount of time and money that has to be wasted fixing Windows' various problems.

      Unless you're talking about IT in the sense of Windows admins in particular, of course -- MS has certainly helped them, by giving them plenty of work to do!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    35. Re:This is great! by Tom · · Score: 1

      Yes, they do today. My comment was specifically about Code Red II and that one didn't.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    36. Re:This is great! by NuclearDog · · Score: 1
      "I don't know why windows develops problems when you install too many programs, my Linux box has hundreds of programs installed, and doesn't slow down a bit."


      Because "too many programs" is including some shitty, broken program. There is nothing in windows that inherently breaks when X number of programs are installed.

      It takes me about 12 seconds to scroll from the top of my start menu to the bottom (119 items listed in Add/Remove programs, 51 gB worth of apps) and I have 21 icons in my system tray. My system is completely stable. No lock-ups, no crashes. Nothing.

      Basically, it involves not being an idiot. Treat your Windows box like you would your *nix box and you should be fine. (Would you download a random binary off of the internet (no source) and run it as root on your *nix box? Didn't think so.)

      ND
      --
      This statement is forty-five characters long.
  4. A wise move by Andy_R · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any system that is badly protected enough to get infected is probably already bogging down and in danger of the user getting it fixed. This is probably a very good strategy to improve the usefulness of the machine to the hijacker, and reduce the chances of the user doing anything about the infection. I'm surprised this hasn't happened before.

    --
    A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    1. Re:A wise move by Pharmboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, I am waiting for the BSA to come in and sue the people whose machines were "infected" with this pirated version of Kaspersky AV software. The BSA poses a greater threat than the spywear that was removed.

      User: "I didn't install it! I swear!"
      BSA: "Yea right, it just installed itself...."

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    2. Re:A wise move by jbourj · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can just see the rival spyware companies' lawsuit: "the users were never promted and asked if they wanted our product removed."

    3. Re:A wise move by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Or they can just go get a free version of Kaspersky courtesy of AOL.

    4. Re:A wise move by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Ummm, unless your license/contract with the software mfg/seller says that the BSA can audit your boxen, you can safely tell the BSA to piss off.

      The BSA has no authority to hassle you unless you give it to them.

      (AFAIK)

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    5. Re:A wise move by ElephanTS · · Score: 2, Funny

      spywear

      That's like dark glasses, false moustache, hat, black leather jacket?

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    6. Re:A wise move by rapidweather · · Score: 1
      Any system that is badly protected enough to get infected is probably already bogging down and in danger of the user getting it fixed


      I went to a computer repair shop today, very nice place, with lots of expensive computers for sale.
      Noticed the price list posted:

      Virus Removal $140.00

      Labor, Per Hour: $85.00

      and so forth.

      On the upside, they had a tray of 30 or so Ubuntu Linux CD's sitting on the counter, no sign or notice around them to say what they were for the benefit of the "lowest common denominator" walking through the door.
      More upside: The friendly repairman _gave_ me a graphics card for free, I am using it now on a box running RHL 9. I came away thinking I saved $65 not having to buy one. That guy is the nicest fellow I have come in contact with all week.
      I'm going back when I get some bread and buy one of those screamers they had sitting around.

      -- Rapidweather

    7. Re:A wise move by mikefe · · Score: 1

      The BSA is the open source communities friend.

      All open source companies should closely monitor the BSA and use it as a source of leads.

      --
      There: Something at a specific location.
      Their: Owned by someone.
      Please make sure your english compiles.
  5. Coming up next... by Kjella · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...plenty other crapware removing that virus. Seeing how much of that crap can coexist on one machine, I imagine these people will be forced back in line. And I don't think anything like a "civil war" fought on user's computers will be good for the users either.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Coming up next... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Fuck all of em. Just "Nuke and Pave" (format and reinstall). It's the only way to win a cyber civil war...and be sure of it.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:Coming up next... by jsdcnet · · Score: 1

      Actually, I do think a "civil war" on a user's machine will be good, because it is more likely to motivate the user to figure out "why is my computer acting all weird?"

      --
      no longer working for cnet
  6. At least we know who knows who the operator is! by MavEtJu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    During his analysis, Stewart found that SpamThru was being used to operate a spam-based pump-and-dump stock scheme.

    Add one and one together, and you know who the operator of the botnet is.

    --
    bash$ :(){ :|:&};:
    1. Re:At least we know who knows who the operator is! by raduf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm wondering if this is really an organisation's work. Stock schemes sound like the kind of think that doesn't require clients or large resources. Could be a lone programmer somewhere, making money on his own.

  7. A Trojan that Installs Anti-Virus & removes ot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Malware is commonly known as the Norton Antivirus installer. ;)

  8. Sounds good! by 1.000.000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Where can i get this trojan?

    --
    This is a viral signature. You are now infected!
    1. Re:Sounds good! by StarfishOne · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are you considering to add this trojan to your viral signature? ;)

  9. Sounds like .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    an extreme way of removing Norton's Anti-Virus ??!!

    1. Re:Sounds like .. by Orgazmus · · Score: 4, Funny

      Please dont use Peter Norton's name in connection with Symantec's Anti-CPU Suite. Thank you

      --
      The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images
    2. Re:Sounds like .. by Fred_A · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't believe there are any non extreme ways of getting rid of the damn thing. It has its little claws dug in deep and you have to bash it repeatedly on its ugly little head with a crowbar before it finally lets go (spewing gore everywhere).

      I haven't had to uninstall it from friend's machines recently (so it might have gotten better, or worse) but I have fond memories of that thing. Reminded me of the headcrabs in HL2.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    3. Re:Sounds like .. by TheOtherChimeraTwin · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sorry, but The Geek Formerly Known As Peter sold his name along with his soul to the Symantec Overlords. He is now only known by the sequence 50696E6B205368697274.

    4. Re:Sounds like .. by Jeremi · · Score: 1
      I don't believe there are any non extreme ways of getting rid of the damn thing. It has its little claws dug in deep and you have to bash it repeatedly on its ugly little head with a crowbar before it finally lets go (spewing gore everywhere). [...] Reminded me of the headcrabs in HL2.


      Are you referring to the SpamThru trojan, the Symantec Anti-Virus Suite, or Windows itself? It's hard to tell....

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    5. Re:Sounds like .. by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      I was referring to the Symantec anti virus suite from hell that seems to come bundled with every preinstalled machine nowadays (I'll always wonder how they managed that with such a product).

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
  10. Darwin, Schmarwin by CheeseburgerBrown · · Score: 5, Funny

    I know before too long they'll be some long and nearly interesting thread about the Darwinian loveliness manifest in this virus' competitive adaptation, but I think it instead provides a firm basis to identify the handiwork of Intelligent Design.

    In other words, God spams.

    He Is That He Is has simply moved on from meat-based proselytizing and entered the so-called Cyber Age, as was foreseen in Deuteronomy 4:20, Revelations 1:1415, and Glossary 36:D.

    1. Re:Darwin, Schmarwin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speak not of this unholy spam, for our god is manifest in spaghetti.

    2. Re:Darwin, Schmarwin by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Of course, people who use the Darwin kernel will continue to be smug claiming that the virus could never affect them.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    3. Re:Darwin, Schmarwin by coredog64 · · Score: 1

      To quote the prophet Jer-a-matic, one zero zero zero one zero one zero one zero one zero one...

  11. How can it have gotten to this stage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Spam is a Microsoft problem, they market software to users that are neither capable or responsible. It's annoying because those of us who can use computers and are willing to take responsibility will be marginalized by Microsoft's cure; TCPA.

  12. This sounds good by Ice+Wewe · · Score: 1
    Ten minutes after the download of the DLL, it begins to scan the system for malware, skipping files which it detects are part of its own installation.

    ... And this is a bad thing, why?

    1. Re:This sounds good by MooUK · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because that's not the only thing it does. If it was, I'd definitely consider it a good thing to infect all those without up-to-date antivirus software with.

    2. Re:This sounds good by dangitman · · Score: 3, Insightful
      ... And this is a bad thing, why?

      Uhhh, because it installs its own malware? Why do you think it's a good thing to have some scam software installed on your machine?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    3. Re:This sounds good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ... And this is a bad thing, why?


      Because it's unauthorized to do it?

  13. Great Idea! by CalSolt · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm just waiting for Microsoft to release a virus that'll force everyone to run Automatic Update. Think of how many problems it would solve!

    1. Re:Great Idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wouldnt that be wsus?

    2. Re:Great Idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh, they only just released one called "Genuine Advantage Notification Tool" that is designed to stop automatic updates.

  14. Re:A Trojan that Installs Anti-Virus & removes by MooUK · · Score: 1

    There are some worse things than Norton/Symmantec - and here I mean solely the antivirus; there is little worse than Norton's security suite as a whole.

    Not that I'd ever use it given the choice.

  15. This is really bad actually by majortom1981 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why is evertybody saying this is a good thing.This could be very bad. A virus or any malware that disguises itself as an antivirus would not be detected by anti virus programs. ITs actually very clever. Your machine would be infected and you might not even know it. Especially if you normally run kapersky.

    1. Re:This is really bad actually by badpazzword · · Score: 2, Insightful
      A virus or any malware that disguises itself as an antivirus would not be detected by anti virus programs.
      Good antivirus programs scans whatever you tell it to. If you tell them to ignore executables or use some sort of whitelisting, then we have a "User error. Replace the user and press any key to continue."
      --
      When ideas fail, words become very handy.
  16. Other information about this... by Admin_Jason · · Score: 5, Informative

    Naturally, this is a Windows specific little bugger. So, if you're running anything else, you should be okay. (Of course, the systems that us /.ers support are another story...) Sophos is the only vendor of the few big boys I searched that seems to have any info on this mal-ware with the "SpamThru" name. Of course, there are other variant names of this, so check with your vendor against these other possible iteratives:

    * Backdoor.Win32.Agent.uu
    * Spam-DComServ
    * TROJ_AGENT.BOR

    Removal instructions can also be found here

    --
    Just another nameless binary in a crowd of 1's and 0's
  17. Er.... by spasticfraggle · · Score: 5, Funny

    2? Those bloody integers, eh?

    1. Re:Er.... by davecrist · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd say 2 was the prime suspect, at least... 8)

    2. Re:Er.... by settrans · · Score: 1

      Even so...

      --
      "When I wake up in the morning I piss cryptographic excellence." - Bruce Schneier
  18. Buy a Apple MacIntosh by macaroo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I sit here a happily run OSX 10.4.8 on my G4 powered Mac and laugh at the electronics and software Wars taking place in the MS World. I clean WIndows machines for a living an are not surprised at this development. Most machines can take a little malware infection, but are maintained when the owner can't boot anymore or the machine slows to a crawl.

    1. Re:Buy a Apple MacIntosh by Admin_Jason · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course your Mac is safe, the OP article spoke to the Windows-specific nature of the trojan. Keep talking up the Mac though. More and more people are moving toward it, and I could see a day where trojans, ad-wares, spywares, and virus-writers start seeing the merit of engineering their wares toward the Mac OS. Hmmm...writing wares for an OS based on an open-sourced kernel...yeah, there's no danger in that [/sarcasm]

      On a more serious note, please tell us you are speaking metaphorically about your laughter, as laughing at the resource which, by your own admission, provides you a job, does not paint you in the best of lights. Laughing at the plights of others is not only in bad taste, it certainly does nothing to boost the image of the rest of the tech world. We, as technically-minded people, should be trying to help and educate those who are not as adept with IT security. Rather than laugh at the plight, try taking an understanding and resourceful approach. "Well Mr. So-and-so, it seems you've gotten this nasty little virus that actually is a fairly new kind of threat, which is why your AV didn't catch it. I actually read about this nasty bugger on a forum I visit, and have a solid way of removing it for you. Just to let you know, I have a Macintosh at home, and that is not even at risk since this was written for Windows. If you'd like, I'd be happy to schedule some time to go over the benefits of migration with you and your people (or family or employees, or friends)."

      I bet that gets you further than the approach you mentioned in your post.

      --
      Just another nameless binary in a crowd of 1's and 0's
    2. Re:Buy a Apple MacIntosh by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      well i run linux, and i dont find this funny at all. windows botnets are a fucking nuisance to EVERYONE. Running mac os x or linux wont stop you receiving spam emails, or stop a website you need to use being DDOSed.

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    3. Re:Buy a Apple MacIntosh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not sure why you were modded interesting. Your comment falls well short of "interesting". Your history doesn't indicate this is a pattern though.

      Slashdot should require users to post in a fanboi area once, so this would be the only time one should feel it required to be posted. If you have posted fanboi stuff > once, this area would be for you.

      For instance... the forum could read:
      I love Mac because I don't have viruses!
      I love PC because I have games!
      I love *nix because I don't have either, but I have control!

      That way, when one posts in the general areas, they won't clutter threads with opinions that don't add to the story. Perhaps we could call this "forum normalization". And when someone needs that fanboi fix, they can hit the fanboi area and read their required post there.

    4. Re:Buy a Apple MacIntosh by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I make $500 a week doing this for people under the table. It supports my performance car habit quite nicely.

      I have a bartPe configured to do everythign automagically. I go over to their home, boot the Pe disk and start my apps.

      all done, remove disc, accept cash and go buy more performance car parts, Engine ECM reprogramming gear, etc...

      I love microsoft! they make me lots of money!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  19. Re:A Trojan that Installs Anti-Virus & removes by CatoNine · · Score: 1

    Here, Here!

  20. This is also *good* because by CatoNine · · Score: 1, Funny

    If this hacked Kapersky removes all other malware from the infected system. The user only needs to run *one* other removal tool to end up with a clean system again. (OK, OK, for a while then...)

  21. Says a lot about Kaspersky... by Arkan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... if virus authors are confident enough to use it as a mean to eradicate competition! This guy put enough faith in this AV to use it as defense on a compromised system. It kind of implicitly confess that, would the machine have been protected by Kaspersky, it couln't have been compromised.

    Obligatory conspiracy theory: could it be a publicity stunt from Kaspersky themselves? Naaah, I'm certainly too paranoïd.

    --
    Arkan, who don't care anyway, as long as you can't patch DLL in-memory... on GNU/Linux

    1. Re:Says a lot about Kaspersky... by DarthChris · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Obligatory conspiracy theory: could it be a publicity stunt from Kaspersky themselves? Naaah, I'm certainly too paranoïd.
      Obligatory shooting down your conspiracy - if they did, they'd get sued the shit out of them. The only thing that saved Sony (during the rootkit fiasco) was their size as a corporation, and I presume Kaspersky don't have that.

      I'm more interested in seeing what Kaspersky's official response to this is.
      --
      Don't you just hate it when people reply to your signature?
    2. Re:Says a lot about Kaspersky... by badzilla · · Score: 1

      I thought it was pretty well known that Kaspersky is the only AV that really bothers the malware people.

      --
      "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
    3. Re:Says a lot about Kaspersky... by RobertLTux · · Score: 1

      creating a tool that will scan for this and then give the victims a discount copy of the Real version?

      --
      Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  22. Link to the actual research by httptech · · Score: 4, Informative
  23. Mobsters do the same by Britz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When the mob kills people it is usually a rival gang. They want to be the only people milking their territory for good reasons.

    1. Re:Mobsters do the same by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the problem with mobsters is that they have conflicting interests. Virii rarely do. I really don't think installing Kaspersky would be a very wise move from a mobster's point of view; Kaspersky could easily alter their update system in order to remove the installer virus too.

      But in theory I agree.

  24. Art imitates life by digitalhermit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In biology, we hear that it's generally not good to regularly use some types of anti-bacterial cleansers. After awhile they start wiping out the good or innocuos types, leading to proliferation of the undesirable types. My lawn guy says the same thing about some types of weeds; apparently they keep other, larger and hardier weeds from getting a stronghold. It's funny that in the future this may be how viruses are combated in electronic devices.

    1. Re:Art imitates life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell are you talking about, hippy?

  25. cash cow by zogger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now you see why windows remains the dominant desktop. It is because by its very nature it is a tremendous cash cow, going up and down and sideways across the IT food chain. Very, very few people are altruistic enough to work as hard as they can to put themselves out of business, especially once the work involved becomes more or less easy and routine.

    Human nature, you can see it at work in a number of areas, take governments for example. It would be quite possible for governments to work towards fine tuning laws and processes to the point that they are clearly understood, as universally fair as possible, and requiring the least bit of constant interferring-they would have to fire themselves, voluntarily withdraw. It doesn't and won't happen though. Bad car analogy. Could automakers make the million mile car that was super reliable, got good mileage, had decent power, and because of that, actually be cost effective for the consumer in the long run? I bet they could, but there wouldn't be much incentive for them to remain in the car making business, as sales would dreop off severely eventually. The fixit shops would hate it. The oil companies would hate it. Stockholders would hate it.

    And so on. You are trying to balance consumer desires with business desires for repeat sales and increasing sales and peripheral sales, in an economic system that values and rewards that over even just a maintainance of the status quo mode. So it obviously doesn't happen... not much anyway.

    1. Re:cash cow by westlake · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Could automakers make the million mile car that was super reliable, got good mileage, had decent power, and because of that, actually be cost effective for the consumer..? I bet they could, but there wouldn't be much incentive for them to remain in the car making business, as sales would dreop off severely eventually. The fixit shops would hate it. The oil companies would hate it. Stockholders would hate it.

      Henry Ford thought he had the perfect car in the Model T and so it was in 1915.

      But times change. The definition of perfection changes.

      The electric starter means you don't have to be a young adult male in his physical prime to drive an automobile. Without risking a broken arm or cardiac arrest every time you crank her up.

      Hard surfaced roads and reliable low presure tires means you can build for speed and comfort. Mass production means you can build an all-metal, all-weather, closed car, the four door sedan, and price it within reach of anyone with a middle class income.

    2. Re:cash cow by Kaboom13 · · Score: 1

      Honestly, no they can't build such a car. It is possible to build frames and chassis;s designed for very long service lifes, 50+ years if not abused, however the powertrain will still need maintenance long before that, and the interior will need to be replaced long before that also. Engines are basically controlled explosions with lots of moving parts, and even the best attempts at making ultra-long lasting and reliable engines still require plenty of maintenance. Seals wear out, metal fatigue sets in, friction slowly wears down components, etc. Then consider the vast majority of car owners dont perform any preventative maintenance beyond changing the oil, and such a long lasting car is not really within our technical reach. People are not going to want to spend a ton of money overhauling their car every 15 years, when they can pay less up front, and pay a relatively small amount more then the cost of the overhaul for a brand new car with all the latest bells and whistles. A lot of people buy new cars long before their old car is anywhere near the end of it's useful life, because they want a more stylish new car. At the end of the day. the economics for a car designed for extremely long life just don't work.

    3. Re:cash cow by CalSolt · · Score: 1

      Could automakers make the million mile car that was super reliable, got good mileage, had decent power, and because of that, actually be cost effective for the consumer in the long run? I bet they could, but there wouldn't be much incentive for them to remain in the car making business, as sales would dreop off severely eventually. The fixit shops would hate it. The oil companies would hate it. Stockholders would hate it.


      wow, you don't give engineers much credit, do you? Believe me, if such as thing as a "million mile car" were even remotely physically possible on paper, people would be trying to build it. If not in the auto-industry, then in any of the hundreds, if not thousands, of research universities all over the world that have a Mechanical Engineering department. And sure, a perfect car wouldn't be profitable for Ford or Toyota in the long run, but they'd sell it anyway because if they didn't do it, someone else would, someone without the same stake as them, and thus with nothing to lose should the market go sour after being saturated with perfection. Capitalism isn't the evil force you make it out to be. It's a force for good, if there is proper competition.

      Of course, a million mile car is NOT possible as long as you are using a heat engine (internal combustion engine) because the maximum possible efficiency of such an engine is limited by 1 minus the ratio of the operating temperatures (Carnot efficiency). To fully utilize the energy of gasoline you'd need an efficiency close to 1, meaning you'd have to operate your engine at maybe 100,000 degrees C or have a liquid helium cooling system for the exhaust gas...

      Needless to say, there are countless other problems that researchers are working on that fundamentally limit the mileage, power (per dollar), pollution, and durability of a car. If (and when) we know how to build a fundamentally better car, it WILL be built and sold. This law holds for almost any other market you can think of. Will an HIV vaccine put drug makers out of business? Sure, but that's not stopping private philanthropy foundations and small startups from pouring billions of dollars into research. Will a better Windows kernel put Symantec and MacAfee out of business? Sure, but that didn't stop Microsoft from building dramatically stronger protections into Vista.

    4. Re:cash cow by raduf · · Score: 1


        I used to think as you think... until I came to own a Fiat 850 (vintage '67). I'm not going to discuss performance here: newer cars are, in all ways, better and more confortable. However fiability in anything after '80 that isn't Mercedes (and probably newer Mercedeses too) is laughable. They simply aren't built to last over 10 years. Or more to the point, they're build not last over 10 years.
        You're going to tell me that this isn't so important any more, that everybody can afford a new car every 5 years, that confort and power are more important and cars just "evolved" to be less fiable. Well, you're wrong. I can't find any reason why strong, proven metal components are replaced by plastic. After I've seen my 40 year old car start every day, summer or winter for two years, and after I marveled at every part of it beeing way older then me, and still not rusted, not broken, not even worn, it's obvious to me contemporary cars are designed to live short lives.

        I'm driving a 2002 Punto now... diesel, confortable, resonably fast. I don't expect it to last over two years without major investments. I like it, but i'm realistic.

          Now why did I went on a such off-topic rant? Because what's true for cars is also true for most industries. Why do we need so much faster hardware? Why do we need so much newer software? Except games, who are a different thing, most softwares should have reached maturity by now. Word processors, office, media players, graphic software, IM, all are already well known and, with the kind of effort invested in them, could be almost "perfect". Except there were business reasons not to. Realistic, non-evil business reasons. Easiest example: IM. Compatibility is expensive. Another example: multiple versions. Why pay once, when you can pay 3 times?

          I'm not saying we can do anything about it. After all, these are sound, resonable business decisions. Can't even blame the managers who made them. But this doesn't mean we can't be aware.

    5. Re:cash cow by Admin_Jason · · Score: 1

      The analogy here is a false one because the conclusion reached is one of altruism. Hardly - the conclusion reached is good customer service. "Here is a product that is working badly for you. (Microsoft) I will be happy to fix it for you, and if you would like, I can also teach you about this better product (Macintosh). You will still need service occasionally, but not to the degree that you do on your current product."

      The end result - a better educated client - who, appreciating being taught how to fish instead of being spoon-fed can give you the best kind of advertising there is, word-of-mouth. This has absolutely nothing to do with altruism versus maintaining an economic status quo. My initial reply was addressing the previous persons' seemingly careless attitude toward his clientelle, to which I suggested an approach of caring as opposed to the insular approach of "keeping the customer ignorant". The former will have better long-term benefits, with the added ability to look oneself in the mirror every morning. Human nature is not to laugh at the ignorance or misfortune of others, it is to help ones fellow man.

      --
      Just another nameless binary in a crowd of 1's and 0's
    6. Re:cash cow by zogger · · Score: 1

      I would probably somewhat agree with you, but out in the world it just doesn't happen. Most of the whitebox fixit shops might recommend firefox over IE and the freebie OO.org and perhaps a free antivirus, but that's it, they won't be tryng to talk people into switching to another platform. It would be like ford advising you to switch to chevy or something, just doesn't happen that often.

      for the record, I stopped using windows when they went to GUI from DOS and their GUI really sucked, and switched to mac classic, but when apple went to a unixy thing and my last personal mac wouldn't run it, a PB 1400, I stayed on classic for awhile and then went to linux on commodity hardware. And that's what I tell folks to switch to now, because I finally bingoed to the GPL and what it meant and overwhelmingly support the notion.

    7. Re:cash cow by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1
      People are not going to want to spend a ton of money overhauling their car every 15 years...At the end of the day. the economics for a car designed for extremely long life just don't work

      Bicycle to work for ten years then buy a Bentley. Keep it maintained and drive it for fifty years.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    8. Re:cash cow by westlake · · Score: 1
      After I've seen my 40 year old car start every day, summer or winter for two years, and after I marveled at every part of it beeing way older then me, and still not rusted, not broken, not even worn, it's obvious to me contemporary cars are designed to live short lives.

      There is the Winter in Arlington, Virgina and there is Winter in Buffalo, New York. 22" of snow overnight in mid October. So color me a touch skeptical when I hear stories about your rust-free vintage Fiat.

    9. Re:cash cow by raduf · · Score: 1

      I didn't say I actually drove it in snow :) I tried once, but it's just too small to work. It also has touch of rust here and there, mostly above the left rear wheel. But this doesn't change that I drove it ok the rest of the winter, say up to -5 or -10 in the morning/evening, and the rest of it looks remarkably well (right now it's just been freshly painted too). It's still a good car.
      The only real problem it's that on longer trips you have to be half-mechanic. For one thing because it's old, but mostly because such skills were expected or at least welcomed in drivers of its time.

  26. Done before? by therufus · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Wasn't there a variant on the blaster worm that uninstalled the original blaster worm and replaced it with a new variant?

    I'm sure this has been done before.

    Ah, yes. The Welchia worm!

    Boring. Next please...

    --
    You moved your mouse. Please restart Windows for changes to take effect.
    1. Re:Done before? by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 2, Funny

      Boring, eh? They're both vigilante attempts to fix the problem, but this one actually downloads and installs a pirated commercial AV software package. Significantly different from Welchia, and the first of its kind, as far as I know.

      People have joked for years about releasing a worm that patches Windows systems by installing $LINUX_DISTRIBUTION, this thing just brings us one step closer :-).

    2. Re:Done before? by therufus · · Score: 0

      I just don't know what the fuss is about.

      This new virus just does what welchia did, but takes it up a notch. Maybe sysadmins should adopt a new way of administering across a network using "friendly" viruses. That ideology could be a breath of fresh air. Next time a nasty virus finds its way through your system, maybe figuring out how the virus works and using the same methods, you could send a repair through to not only eradicate the virus, but patch all the systems that the hole applies too.

      Just a thought.

      --
      You moved your mouse. Please restart Windows for changes to take effect.
  27. Oh well then by 0racle · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Trojan requests and loads a DLL from the author's command-and-control server. This then downloads a pirated copy of Kaspersky AntiVirus for WinGate into a concealed directory on the infected system.
    Oh well that's perfectly trustworthy isn't it. I guess we can just leave this one alone, it won't do anything it shouldn't. Is everyone who is saying this is a good thing really that stupid?
    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  28. Apple knows when to give up by jasonhamilton · · Score: 0, Troll

    Yes, at least apple knows when to give up and use BSD.

    I remember a friend who used to own a $12,000 apple computer (for advertising) and it was the biggest pile of crap ever.

    --
    SearchIRC - Now with live chat directory!
  29. funny wargames by Tom · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Funny how there's a war fought over who has control of a windos PC - by multiple parties, none of which is the owner of said PC.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:funny wargames by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 1

      Heh, welcome to DRM.

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    2. Re:funny wargames by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how there's a war fought over who has control of a windos PC - by multiple parties, none of which is the owner of said PC.

      Core wars just got updated for Windows that's all.

  30. reminds me of some of my old ideas by Nyph2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Heh, in 2001 I had this exact idea as part of my concept for a theoretical modular virus. Most of the things I envisioned in that concept have since been picked up by malware producers (for example, modular virii, multi-system virii, rootkits in a virus either as the main payload or to reinstall the payload(or a diff payload) after the system has been cleaned to mention a few which have gone into use on some scale since I came up with my idea), but there were a few tricks my concept had that I've yet to hear about in the wild, so I wont go into any of those details for fear of giving anyone ideas. (I have never developed, nor do I ever intend to develop this concept into an actual program. I'm morally opposed to virii... I was just thinking of the things I would be afraid to see in virii, and how one would go about dealing with something using concepts like what I envisioned.)

    It also reminds me of a sorta funny virus killer that was my precursor idea to the modular concept in 2000: a virus which uses the same 'sploit as a previous virus. The goal: download a removal package, the patch to the 'sploit you used to get in, and a package to temporarily host all of the packages. Once it does this, it simply removes the old virus, patches the system, and hosts the files for a breif period of time(prolly around a day, definately no longer than a week... could also judge how long to host it off frequency of requests for the info) to allow the virus to P2P the files rather than place the load on a central server. Could also disable the network adapter for a period of time in there if needed to make sure it doesnt get reinfected during the removal/patching phases.

    I decided against ever building such a virus-chaser because it's near as bad as the original virus. It's illegal, it could cause network congestion, and while it intends to do good, it's pretty immoral to install stuff on a system & patch it without the users consent.

    Still, a funny concept, similar in some ways to the malware this article discusses.

    PS, I know the plural of virus is viruses. Virii is just fun to say tho.

    1. Re:reminds me of some of my old ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had this exact idea ... my concept for a theoretical modular virus. Most of the things I envisioned in that concept have since been picked up by malware producers ... a few tricks my concept had that I've yet to hear about in the wild ... my precursor idea to the modular concept ...

      OK, we're get it: you're oh-so-clever and the grandmaster flash of all virus technology. Here's some news about all your brilliant and inventive ideas: we all thought of them. Including malware writers, who have been doing all of them since before 2001. And then I'm not talking about random ranting on a forum, but actual code. You know, like the one you never tried to write?

      There are articles on all these things in academia, on forums on the net, random blogs-- wherever. Why? Because all those ideas are incredibly obvious. Some of them can't even be classified as ideas at all ("multi-system virii" -- what kind of "idea" is that? Or "rootkit virii", can you say duh?).

      but there were a few tricks my concept had that I've yet to hear about in the wild, so I wont go into any of those details for fear of giving anyone ideas.

      I wouldn't worry about that if I were you. Your post demonstrates conclusively that a) your ideas are not original in the slightest, b) you have no idea what actual malware writers are doing, and c) you fail to realize that the problem is not coming up with these ideas, it's implementing them. Anyone can dream up stuff like this, but it takes some technical knowhow and some time on your hands to really get the nitty-gritty details right. If you knew anything about the malware world, you would know how many viruses have attempted things like this and failed for obscure reasons.

      I know the plural of virus is viruses. Virii is just fun to say tho.

      Sorry, it's just annoying. Annoying as hell.

  31. Curious blue anyone? by Talchas · · Score: 1

    (See here)

    --
    As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century,free flow of information is the only safeguard against...
  32. Alternative Payload by Geminii · · Score: 1

    Sure, spread by any vector possible, infect anything infectable, clean out any malware on the PC, and do two more things. 1) Sit there trying to infect everything else for a week, and - 2) Then blow away the PC's internet connection so thoroughly that it will have to be taken to a repair shop to fix - don't make it something even a half-competent ISP tech will be able to fix over the phone. Additionally, rig the boot screen to display the names of the vulnerabilities the PC exhibited and the malware which was previously on it, and have continual popups and desktop/homepage changes to "This PC is infected; please take it to a repair shop." This will have a number of results. Firstly, there may be malware on the PC which the payload or cracked detection engine will not pick up. Disconnecting the PC from the internet will prevent that malware from causing further problems in the meantime. Secondly, the PC will need to be taken to a repair shop or at least attended to by a competent techie, who will be able to read the list of vulnerabilities and malware and potentially make sure the PC is patched before being released back onto the net. The repairers are likely to install these patches if only so they don't see the PC's owner again next week when the PC dies from malware again. Of course, given that whoever wrote the above would not necessarily be a white knight, they might choose to do something other than simply disabling the net connection - like randomly frobbing the Windows registration key to trigger false WGA problems, or redirecting all web page requests to the Microsoft international contact phone number web page.

    1. Re:Alternative Payload by Datamonstar · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't the repair shop WANT to see the same customer come in on a weekly basis?

      --
      The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
  33. But make sure you do a good job! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmmm, maybe "good job" isn't the right phrase, but anyhow, you know what happened in Kill Bill! You don't want that happening to you!

  34. The know-it-all Geek's flexible ethics by westlake · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Why is everybody saying this is a good thing.

    It's a fair question.

    Software that installs without the user's knowledge or consent is by definition malware.

    Microsoft asks users to temporarily disable AV when installing IE7 because the installer makes complex changes to the Registry. The install can be trashed by something as simple as an out-of-date signature file.

    Trouble shooting conflicts with AV software can be a nightmare for non-technical end users and Kaspersky is no exception: Kapersky Lab Forums > Protection for Home Users

    Where does that leave the user who doesn't know and cannot know that KAV is resident on his system?

  35. Folding At Home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I cannot wait until F@H viruses come out.

  36. Re:A Trojan that Installs Anti-Virus & removes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Consumes lots of bandwidth, and takes processor out of other processes,

    uff... I thought that was the anticipated release of a "service pack 3" or "Windows Media Player 12".

  37. Airport Codes by PaneerParantha · · Score: 1

    DEL - Delhi Airport, India

    1. Re:Airport Codes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You can imagine what the airport code for Fukuoka (in Kyushu, Japan) is.

      Yep. That.

  38. Great, get busted for having pirated software by Yahma · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why not protect your computer in the first place and not have to worry about spyware and viruses. If you are on a Windows machine and you are browsing warez or other "not so legit" sites, you better protect yourself. You would be advised to use an Anonymous Proxy to browse such sites, as you really don't want your IP address floating around in their logs when they get busted, do you?

    Furthermore, a proxy such as the above would protect you from malicious scripts.

  39. Not so new by baomike · · Score: 1

    read the article at
    http://www.secureworks.com/analysis/spamthru/
    and then see how new you think it is.

    and yes it is an interesting virus/trojan ....

    NB There is SNORT IDS at end of article.

  40. A virus that removes DRM ... good or bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    >> It patches the license signature check in-memory in the Kaspersky DLL to avoid having Kaspersky refuse to run due to an invalid or expired license.

    Well if it weren't for the fact that it also hijacks your box, that might be seen as very useful functionality by many!

    Taking this to a new level, I forsee white hats sending their own viruses out into the wild, which then battle it out with "bad" viruses and also exterminate other evils of today ... DRM and license locks included.

    It might even help fight the RIAA extortion racket if P2P viruses were doing uploads. When your machine has been infected by a third party, then culpability by the machine owner is no longer certain.

  41. This is not new, it's been done back in 1997 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in the days of Netbus and Back Oriface, it was fairly common to find one, if not both on someones computer. I have first hand knowledge of knowing how it spread... it spread through pirated antivirus software (mcafee mainly.) It patched the installer. And since netbus had an override port and password, it was easy to hijack netbus found on other machines and install the antivirus software with Back oriface on it, or hacked netbus, or whatever.

    In a similiar thought, I've also seen entire computer labs at colleges have "factory installed" antivirus, with no updates, and loaded with software to distribute warez, or seti@home, or what have you.

    I'm pretty certain that people with those infected machines have since replaced them.

  42. P2P? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Someone needs to create a trojan that downloads the non-graphical core of a p2p filesharing client, and starts downloading and re-sharing a few popular songs.

    It would be a very interesting test of the law.

  43. Users should be glad... by null-sRc · · Score: 1

    so in the end Windows users are left with 1 virus on their comp? So they're better off in the end?

    --
    -judging another only defines yourself
  44. I for one by iLogiK · · Score: 1

    I for one welcome our new "anti-virus installing" virus overlords...

    *ducks*

  45. Once again, it's WINDOZE ONLY, right? by The+Bloooated · · Score: 0

    One happy day, all these pathogens will be written up with the prefix: WINDOZE ONLY to help Joe and his PHB understand how the latest scourge once again only applies to his favourite DOS+GUI combo. If a virus/trojan/etc. actually applied to Linux, OS X, or other grown-up operating systems it would indeed be news.

  46. Mod parent up! by khasim · · Score: 1

    Throw some cheap RAM on it and also allow it to defrag the hard drive and you'd have the PERFECT card for Windows.

    Particularly if it could correctly defrag the system files when the system boots. Yes, I know there are defrag utilities that do so. But my users complain enough about delays. And none of those utilities seem to work, anyway.

    ==
    This comment posted using 100% Ubuntu, Edgy Eft.

  47. What would be the requirements for an anti-worm? by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I like the idea of dis-infecting a machine that was trying to infect your machine.

    Would it also be advantageous to have the now worm-free machine to also perform that function?

    If "yes" would you want to be especially helpful and place a removal icon in the "Add/Remove Programs" section so that that functionality could be removed?

    If "no", why not? Other than the bit about installing software on someone else's machine?

    I would NOT want the anti-worm to probe the network. This sounds good in theory, but in practice, any amount of scanning will become a problem as the number of machines doing the scanning increases. Sure, they only consume 0.1% of your bandwidth today. But when there are 10x more machines, 100x more machines, etc.

    Any suggestions?

  48. AI coming? by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 0

    Isn't it SkyNet coming? First it cures our computers then it takes over the world.

  49. Report to "enforcement@sec.gov" by Animats · · Score: 2, Informative

    This should be reported, in very clear terms, to "enforcement@sec.gov". Or on the SEC's online form. Or to the SEC Division of Enforcement, 100 F Street, N.E. Washington, D.C. 20549. Because it's a felony being committed in support of a pump-and-dump stock scam.

    The stock being hyped is "TTEN", which has very low volume. The SEC can find out who was trading it just before the spam run started. That's how to find the people behind this. They can follow the money.

    So put together a comprehensive package listing all known stocks being hyped by this thing and the dates the spam began, and ship it off to the SEC. The SEC and FinCen (the U.S. Treasury Financial Crimes Enforcement Network) have the data mining tools to look at the stock transactions and find the people behind this. The SEC has gone after pump-and-dump spammers many times before, and they usually get them.

    1. Re:Report to "enforcement@sec.gov" by raduf · · Score: 1

      Except the guy behind it is an expert hacker. How far down the investigation would you hit a stolen identity?
      In other cases it may work, and that's reason enough to try, but this guy is just too good. Not likely he'd have made a mistake.

  50. However, by Deitheres · · Score: 1

    The suspect is not odd. Quite normally, really.

    --
    Just like driving a car:
    (D) to go forward
    (R) to go backward

    1. Re:However, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Erm. Normal, that is.

  51. Again proving why NO ONE should have Kernel Access by swalters1 · · Score: 1

    So how long before somone builds this to use the API that Symantec and McAfee have made MS put into Vista 64? Not long by my count, all they have to do is install a false version of norton and they've got your system... Come on guys, this is getting old. Isn't it time to let MS make Vista as secure as Linux so that these jokers can be run out of business?

  52. Re:A Trojan that Installs Anti-Virus & removes by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

    I thought Malware was software written by Mal Reynolds!

    --
    Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  53. Just get rid of it altogether by sillybilly · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm not too excited about anything competitive like this. Soon these viruses will get smarter and smarter, soon making sophisticated decisions that resemble artificial intelligence behaviour, and then just leave it up to darwinism til these things evolve into something smarter than us. Luckily we can still just pull the plug on any computer as a last measure, but once they come up with computers that have undisconnectable power cords - wait, you can always use a woodden handled axe to cut the cord, if you got such a thing, and it's not electric powered with an rfid chip that shocks you if you can't id yourself because such weapons have to be kept out of terrorist hands, in the name of public safety. But you can always just bite the damn cord apart, and recieve a mild shock in the process. So we only have to worry about systems that can never come down, such as the electric grid, or hospital systems that have backup grids, where there is always power, so such viruses might hide out in such "always on" systems and evolve, but hey, we can even shut down the electric grid if that's what it takes to take control back, problem is these days the shutting switches are also computer controlled, and I suggest we should have a manual shut off station where you can toss a lever just like in the good old days, as a general safety measure for any device that is powered by energy. Most things in your home have a power cord you can pull, and you can shut off all power to your home by cutting the conduits where the electricity, natural gas and high pressure water come in, but there are complicated places in the world where nobody really knows how to shut the whole thing down, or where is the switch to toss to shut the whole thing down. On the other hand, you also don't want such shut the whole thing down switches too accessible, because of terrorists, damn, not again, these terrorirsts are annoying maaan.... Once there are cameras everywhere watching for terrorists, and computer vision is developed enough to where those computer driven cars can actually drive through the desert on their own, meaning they can see, then these viruses will be able to see everything in the whole world, including you disconnecting their power cord, and they can instantly make up a false criminal record and send 911 on your ass and have the police plug the power back in, and you can say you're innocent, riiight, that's what all people in prison say, they are all innocent.... Once I laughed at someone for saying "fuck technology." I love technology, it's so much fun, but maaan, fire was the first big technology man invented, and playing with any new technology since then is like playing with fire - it's fun, but you can get burned if you don't pay attention. On the other hand how do we know that such "higher intelligence" entitities would not be protectors, but destructors of us? What is man to nature on this Earth? A protector, maintainer or destructor? Do unto others....?

  54. Fast way to the shop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Change the zone on the DVD-ROM a few times, leaving it in any zone other than the original zone.
    Idiot user can't watch DVD's, that box is headed for the shop, or maybe the scrap heap.

  55. Legalities by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Informative

    I was immediately outraged at the illegal install of software, but then I remembered the virus itself was illegal anyhow, ...

    I wonder, though, if a retaliatory disinfector, or even a "beneficial nematode", would be legal?

    This would be a server that not only detects and blocks worm infection attempts, but responds (using one of the vulnerabilities exploited by the original malware or one it installs - which are known to exist due to the malware's presence) by disabling the malware in the attacking computer, and perhaps patching the vulnerabilities exploited by the malware and/or (in the "beneficial nematode" case) copying itself to it. The former attacker is now no longer attacking, is protected from reinfection by the secondary infection, and perhaps becomes another source of counter-attacks.

    Since it only counter-attacked, and even a passively-blocked attack without a counter-attack consumes resources (amounting to a DoS if sufficiently large and persistent), it could be argued that the counter-infection falls under the same principle as the use of force in self-defence. Or perhaps a "necessity defence" could be argued.

    Of course one would have to be especially careful when designing such a self-reproducing tool. A significant issue would be accidental escape into the wild of a buggy version early in the development. Timeouts or "hayflick limit" reproduction counters seem advisable. And building them on pirated antiviral tools would be out of the question.

    IANAL. Does anybody out there have a more informed opinion?

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Legalities by iamacat · · Score: 1

      It's illegal for you to connect to my system and try to infect with it with a worm. From legal point of view, I could sue you from negligence even if you were not aware of the problem. For example, it's much easier/cheaper to secure your system with anti-malware tools than to absolutely secure your gun to make sure it's not used by someone to commit crime. I may decline to press charges, but there is no way you can complain if I take an appropriate action to stop further criminal activity, without intent to cause any unrelated damage to your property.

      I would hope such cases are always resolved through mutual understanding rather than lawsuits though.

    2. Re:Legalities by chawly · · Score: 0

      Sorry, no informed opinion at all. Like to point out, however, that even a "has been" rocket scientist has to know that what goes up finishes by coming back down.

      --
      How many beans make five, anyhow ? ... Charles Walmsley
    3. Re:Legalities by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

      Like to point out, however, that even a "has been" rocket scientist has to know that what goes up finishes by coming back down.

      The basic principle of "escape velocity" is that you can make something "fall up" forever. Something even us "has been" rocket scientists know. B-)

      As for "has been", yes, a lot of us old has-been rocket scientists have gone on to other things since the NASA's heyday. Like building the infrastructure of the Internet.

      Takes more than just Al Gore to make all those pipes. B-)

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  56. coincidence by zogger · · Score: 1

    I used to have a fiat 850 spider convertible, a 69. Had both the tops, too. Wish I still had it, about the easiest car I ever had to work on, got close to 50 mpg all the time, and it would (more or less depending on the hills) go 70 on the highway. I liked the toggle switches with the fuses right there for the electronics too, just a nice touch. The only US car I ever had about as reliable, but more practical from a seating and cargo angle, was a 74 dodge dart with the slant six. That only got between 20 and 25 MPG but would do 110 if you really wanted to, and wasn't all that squirrely at the speed either. I paid $325 for that bad boy. They should still make them.

  57. volvos by zogger · · Score: 1

    There's some volvos out there got way over a million miles on them, you can google for it. I don't know long run what slapping anew engine in once in awhile, every 10 to 20 years or something, will run for every single car out there, but I would bet cheaper than buying a new car. The system is not setup for that though, except for the hobbiest market. My record is sitting out in my yard right now, 75 chevy van with a 350. I have 308 thou on it before I blew the timing chain trying to snag out a dump truck stuck in the mud with it. It's parked now, it's one of those "one of these days I'll yank the engine and rebuild it" project. I think I could have pushed it to maybe 350 thou, it wasn't burning oil at that time but had a couple small leaks (mostly rear crank seal), and valve chatter wan't bad either. Just changed the oil, that's about it, few starters and a carb rebuild and some brake pads. thinking about it, I think it's only had two sets of rear shoes..

    Ya, not a million, but not quite a throwaway and a decent amount of miles for a truck that got *worked* hard for years. And the new japanese cars, some of them anyway, are starting to show they can last. I think it's possible, close enough anyway. I think if you used really good components and high quality alloys, etc and something like the direct oil injection to the cylinders, and a immediate electronic pressurized oil system, with a diesel engine, yada yada yada could probably run off a list, I think you could build a stock car that with some care could go a million miles.

    The point I was making though is that that would be SUCH a long time for most people that it would impact the bottom line for the company. I also said it was a bad car analogy..heh.

    The deal is referring to businesses, once they have something that is "good enough", for the most part there isn't much incentive to make it all that much better if they keep selling what they have, just bery broadly speaking. I didn't invent the phrase, but we live in a throw away society now where one little dohickey busts and your latest gadget is broken, people just toss stuff now and get brand new, and that's how a lot of business is run. In software doubly so. There hasn't been much in the way of an incentive for MS to really push uber quality-because they still sell what they got by the boatload, and huge markets have developed alongside-the horizontal part-to address the shortcomings of it. Most small mom and pop whitebox shops make the bulk of their cash just cleaning systems-nothing is "broken" it is just b0rked from running windows on the intartubes. Big dfference there, and it's because they and MS *can* do that. Sort of an unstated agreement "don't rock the boat too much,and everyone gets to milk this cow for good cash". It was the grandparent I was talking about, runs a mac, cleans up by cleaning up MS "good enough but no where's near great" software. It's a cash cow, that's the phrase that fits.

    Oh, and I have respect for automotive engineers,plenty, but here's reality-most of the really good ones are in racing, not building joe sixpacks car, they are in racing, because they get paid a lot better there and it is a lot more fun for them. They design cars to more or less go really fast for short periods, and do an excellent job at it. Turn them loose with completely different engineering goals and see what ya might get there. That's just a theory, but bet I'm right based on some of the outstanding designs and examples you can see outside of detroit, tokyo or stuttgart. Being an old gearious head from detroit denizens, i can assure you that any numberr of motivated builders who didn't have to ansser to the imemdiate bean counters have built and drve cars that "look" like what you can get at the local dealer but are in all ways MUCH better quality, because they take more care and use better parts. There's goofy stuff you can do that take a lot of time and effort but pay off. Ever sit down and REALLY balance pistons and connecting rods? And use forged over ca

  58. Re:volvos/a link addition by zogger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here's a link of an example, over 2 million miles with a valve replacement when they stopped selling leaded gas

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2004/08/26/2136 34.html

  59. The last guy to try this is in jail by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative
    but this guy is just too good. Not likely he'd have made a mistake.

    Let's take a look at the career of last year's big pump-and-dump spammer:

    "Computer Virus Broker Arrested for Selling Armies of Infected Computers to Hackers and Spammers

    "Pump-and-dump spam domains go silent after botnet closure"

    Spammers register pump-and-dump spam domains for use in spam runs. These domains are commonly discarded after a few days. The tactic is commonplace but the the arrest of alleged botmaster Jeanson James Ancheta, 20, of Downey, California, on 3 November has been accompanied by a radical shift in the landscape. "Up to recently, the graphs were all fairly smooth, with the stats showing that 12 days was about the maximum lifetime for this type of domain, while 30 per cent only lasted a day or under, and 10 per cent only lasted three hours or under," Shipp said. "This kind of activity just disappeared completely from the radar on 2 November."

    Following up:

    "Botnet Creator Pleads Guilty, Faces 25 Years"

    Federal Bureau of Prisons Inmate Locator

    • Name: JEANSON JAMES ANCHETA
    • Inmate number: 32392-112
    • Age: 21
    • Race: Asian
    • Sex: M
    • Projected release date: 12-25-2009
    • Location: CALIFORNIA CITY CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTION

    California City Prison: "This medium security desert prison opened in 2000, and is a stunning sight, either by day when its monolithic forms stand out on the desert pavement like ancient Egyptian architecture, or by night when floodlights bathe the gleaming facility in an orange glow which can be seen from as much as 30 miles away."

    Next spammer, please.

  60. Shockwave Rider? by mr100percent · · Score: 1

    Nobody's pointed out the similarity to Shockwave Rider? The book that not only predicted worms to proliferate the internet, but that some hacker would write a worm to erase the other worms.

    1. Re:Shockwave Rider? by LanceUppercut · · Score: 1

      Huh? Worms that erase other worms have been around for quite a while already. This one is notable not for the sheer ability to erase other worms, but for the fact that it simply uses a commercial anti-virus solution to do that. That's both weird and ingenious!

  61. I diagnose (but cannot spell) schitzophrenia by E++99 · · Score: 1

    This guy is like a burgler who wipes his feet before breaking into your house. He is probably seriously separated from moral reality.

  62. but... by r00t · · Score: 1

    Who does number 2 work for?

  63. The Darwin Kernel = Alternative Lifestyle by CheeseburgerBrown · · Score: 1

    I think we all know what happens in the long run to people who are soft on alternative lifestyles (being gay, using the Darwin kernel, not eating meat) -- that's right: aitch e double hockey sticks.

    And everyone knows that AIDS is an alternative lifestyle virus, so I don't see how their smugness can last. Now that Microsoft is building condoms directly into the Vista user interface, everyone pious except Catholics can now breathe easy.

    Also, I have it on good authority that evil thetans are harboured inside the brains of liberals, parasiting on the electromagnetic waves of anti-American thought.

  64. Finally! by sjames · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's about time someone ported Corewars to Windows!

  65. Maybe I should write one? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmmm... Maybe I should write a trojan/virus that automatically installs AVG or some other anti-virus software on all the grandmother's machines out there.

    Vigilante virii.

  66. because AVG does NOT work better by Phil+Urich · · Score: 3, Interesting

    in my experience, Kaspersky Labs works almost amazingly better against viruses; at least, it has easily fixed computers where AVG couldn't even see a problem. I'm sorry, I know it'd be great to be all "yay AVG!" since it's free, but I've begrudgingly grown to respect Kaspersky. Of course, it's much much better than Norton as well, but that's pretty much for granted.

    (Reminds me of a funny story, though. My friend's computer was acting up, in some very odd and rather annoying ways. I tsk-tsked him, implying that he probably caught himself some kind of infection. He went "no, no, this legit copy of Norton I have would have seen it." I took his hard drive out, threw it in my machine, and Kaspersky Labs immediately started deleting. Once the massive infection (mainly of worms) was gone, we put it back in his box, and his Win2k install ran with significantly less hassle; all those mysterious problems were gone, howabout that. Norton, thoughout all of this, just smiled into space like an idiot. And don't get me started on McAfee!)

    Kasperksy is also quite configurable for ignoring certain files, and has a rather robust system for doing so; I find it handy myself, considering that I have quite a few programs that have the kinds of engines in them that might be detected heuristically by Kaspersky as being virus-y, for lack of a better term (for example, the smtp engine in anonymail is the kind of setup that a worm might use for using a computer to randomly mail copies of itself around). So if this piece of kinda-mal-ware is to survive its own medicine, that sort of functionality is rather useful (I haven't used AVG for about a year now, but when I last used it I remembered a lack of that kind of breadth of deliberate "leave such-and-such alone).

    You're right though, that adding copyright infringement ontop of this is a bit of an issue, but under the circumstances it's an issue of contempt for the end-user anyways. Not saying whether that's justified or not, just that it's deliberately out of the control of whomever owns the infected computer, so it's not like *they'd* be liable anyways . . .

    Actually, hey, maybe the creator really likes AVG and doesn't want to give it bad press? There's quite a few possible reasons for this choice, thinking about it.

    --
    I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
  67. Re:What would be the requirements for an anti-worm by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    I would NOT want the anti-worm to probe the network. This sounds good in theory, but in practice, any amount of scanning will become a problem as the number of machines doing the scanning increases. Sure, they only consume 0.1% of your bandwidth today. But when there are 10x more machines, 100x more machines, etc.

    Any suggestions?

    Have it listen for scans too, and only send them itself if it doesn't hear any other copies doing so?

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  68. Core Wars by Garrett+Fox · · Score: 1

    This process gives new meaning and life to the old game "Core Wars," the one in which people wrote what were basically prototype viruses.

    --
    Revive the Constitution.
  69. Done before by DrYak · · Score: 1

    In fact, this has been done before.

    Even if usually, those Antivirus-Cards were simple cards with BIOS updates protecting the boot sector, and sometimes boot code to perform some scans before the OS kicks in. No CPU to take the load.

    But this idea is also implement in real hardware in some dedicated firewalls (that can unload the SPAM and Virus filtering job from the main mail server).

    Maybe this kind of job can be done with a special upgrade for the 'firewall/router-on-a-card' type of NICs like the EtherKiller. Someone want to port clamscan to EK's embeded linux ?

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  70. I'm not sure this should be moderated "funny"... by blorg · · Score: 1

    ...as there are countless examples of spyware companies sueing or threatening to sue anti-spyware vendors.

  71. Malware writers in the know by The_Revelation · · Score: 1

    It seems people in the malware biz know what the best AVs are then. I think we should all take a page from their book.