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Linux and the Coming Consoles

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the penguins-without-joysticks dept.

eldavojohn writes "Despite reports from the CEO that the PS3 will ship with Linux, LinuxDevices is now saying that it won't. Also, despite a rumor that the Wii will have Linux, the originator of the rumor has revealed himself to be a prankster. This won't stop you from putting Yellow Dog on the PS3 or running WiiLi, a live Linux CD for the Wii."

57 of 73 comments (clear)

  1. PS# by thejrwr · · Score: 1

    Dran i was looking forward to Linux on the PS3 Pre-Installed, oh well, lets just hope sony makes it easy to install linux "What would linus do?"

    1. Re:PS# by bhima · · Score: 1

      If you can use a keyboard, mouse and monitor better than you can can read the fucking article you have nothing to fear

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    2. Re:PS# by bhima · · Score: 1

      From TFA:

      "Sony's PlayStation 3 (PS3), due this month, will not ship with Linux pre-installed, as suggested in March by CEO Ken Kuturagi. However, TerraSoft CEO Kai Staats says his company's Yellow Dog Linux is installable by "anybody who knows how to use a keyboard, mouse, and browser," according to an interview in the Coloradoan."

      So you foe me bacause you can't read?

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
  2. What practical things have people done... by chroot_james · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...with Linux on consoles? Is it just for the fun of getting it to run?

    --
    Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
    1. Re:What practical things have people done... by thejrwr · · Score: 1

      if you really think about it, linux on the ps3 would be useful as hell, its soo powerful, uoi could run a large webserver off of it

    2. Re:What practical things have people done... by chroot_james · · Score: 1

      But regular computers are so cheap already...

      --
      Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
    3. Re:What practical things have people done... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What practical things have people done with Consoles at all!?!


      Linux on a console is a game - and a better game than any of the prepackaged games people are selling.


      • It has a wider open-ended playing field that WOW.
      • If you advance in the Linux-on-the-console game (by making a compelling application) it pays in Dollars (or the currency of your choice) instead of in fake-in-game-money.

      But more than that - yes, practical things will be done if the PS3 runs Linux. I want a computer in my living room, and the choices so far are Mac Mini w/ MacOS and PS3 w/ Linux. (I'll be damned if I ever need to update anti-virus files on my living room TV with some insecure OS).
    4. Re:What practical things have people done... by twistedsymphony · · Score: 4, Insightful
      if you really think about it, linux on the ps3 would be useful as hell, its soo powerful, uoi could run a large webserver off of it
      It's got a lot of power that will go completely wasted when you consider it's only got 256MB of usable system memory.
      --
      Collector's Edition
    5. Re:What practical things have people done... by twistedsymphony · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You could also build a mini-itx based computer running linux/MythTV, or a modified Xbox 1 with Linux, or even the default Xboxdashboard with Xbox Media Center, or PS2 Linux...
      I think a modified Xbox 1 would be your cheapest route, but a custom built MythTV box would be the most versatile... none of these options would be as expensive as a PS3 though, For the Price tag the PS3 could be pretty limited considering it's lack of system memory, and the fact that it only supports expensive 2.5" hard drives. Though I suppose the built in bluetooth and blu-ray would be handy... though not $500-$600 handy IMO.

      --
      Collector's Edition
    6. Re:What practical things have people done... by elphins.son · · Score: 1

      The primary example I can think of, off the top of my head, is the growing movement to turn the original XBox into a headless linux server. When you think about it, the ability to put a decently large hard drive in a relatively inexpensive box that already includes networking hardware...

      It's an option for people like me who don't have a lot of money, but still like to play with home networking. It's certainly cheaper than getting actual server equipment.

    7. Re:What practical things have people done... by SNR+monkey · · Score: 1

      Considering that PS3 seems to consume massive amounts of electricity and already has reports of overheating, I don't think it would be an ideal webserver. Considering it "consumes much more power than a top-end PC gaming rig" I can't imagine it is better than a traditional server as far as price/watt is concerned, it was built as a gaming platform, not a webserver. Furthermore, a machine which already has reports about overheating might not make the most reliable webserver.

    8. Re:What practical things have people done... by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 1

      (You can put Linux or a *BSD on a Mac Mini, if you wanted too.)

      Anyway, good point. Another thing they are good for is compute nodes: For the price, they have a lot of CPU/GPU processing power, so running distributed programs on them isn't a bad idea. Especially if it is during 'down-time' when you wouldn't be playing games anyway.

      Not that I'd want to build a cluster out of them: You could probably build something better for about the same amount of money by picking something designed for what you want to do, but it does give upcoming geeks a chance to play with that type of setup on their own.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    9. Re:What practical things have people done... by chroot_james · · Score: 4, Funny

      That might be a question for the NetBSD team.

      --
      Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
    10. Re:What practical things have people done... by slackmaster2000 · · Score: 1

      Wha? You can do the same thing, cheaper, by scrapping together a PC.

      There is a real difference between server hardware and workstation hardware. If you don't require real server equipment, then I can't think of any positive reason to choose a console over a PC that would outweigh all of the drawbacks.

    11. Re:What practical things have people done... by Yfrwlf · · Score: 1

      Because then you'd have Linux on it. Linux can do things. A plethora of things. Good things. Linux + other stuff = more stuff. :) If you have what is basically a small computer, why not unlock it's full potential?

      --
      Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
    12. Re:What practical things have people done... by elphins.son · · Score: 1

      Simplest reason: I already own an XBox. I don't own any spare PC hardware.

      All else being equal, yes it's cheaper and easier to build your own PC to handle it. But there are the occasional situations where it's cheaper to use the console (i.e. it's sitting around collecting dust) than to use a real PC (i.e. those parts would have to be purchased new).

    13. Re:What practical things have people done... by thejrwr · · Score: 1

      on the side note, all the reports on the ps3 are marked as untrue ontill its released, as how can somebody know about it when they dont even have it yet

    14. Re:What practical things have people done... by vertinox · · Score: 1

      ...with Linux on consoles? Is it just for the fun of getting it to run?

      People have gotten Linux installed on a DS and VNC client as well. There are even some utility apps like email and web browsers (not the official opera kind) floating around.

      However, because of the DS's limited ram many things are just limited in what you can do.

      here is a screen shot of the DS VNC in action.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    15. Re:What practical things have people done... by bhima · · Score: 1

      I'd like to be able to put a Hi-def movie in my next gen console and have it write a H.264 file (with separate subtitle & audio tracks) to my networked RAID.

      I also tinker with cryptology I wonder how fast it would be making smart rainbow tables or some other thing that embarrasses people who use shitty encryption.

      I think most kids should have a computer but more have game consoles, wouldn't it great after the investment of a USB mouse & keyboard all they needed was a *free* optical disk and they could have a functional computer?

      I feel sort of weird having some company tell me what I can and can't do with hardware I own.

      I don't play games every day, surly this expensive thing can do something else... *anything!*

      Worst: to date the games I have spent the most time with have the word "Zork" in them and I didn't see it in the catalog of offered games.

      As a side note I am now listening to Mofro... you should give them a listen.

      --
      Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    16. Re:What practical things have people done... by AcidLacedPenguiN · · Score: 1
      Furthermore, a machine which already has reports about overheating might not make the most reliable webserver.
      With that said I can't wait to see that first "PS3-webserver slashdotted" slashdot article.
      --
      disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
    17. Re:What practical things have people done... by sdaemon · · Score: 1

      if anyone ever gets *NIX running on a waffle iron, chances are it will be NetBSD.

    18. Re:What practical things have people done... by billdar · · Score: 1

      Aside from a 2400 node cluster for the department of defense and university research, or a living room media center, I guess not much other than its cool?

      --
      I am billdar, and I approve this message.
    19. Re:What practical things have people done... by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      I'm looking forward to experimenting with the Cell processor. A workstation with the same specs would be worth much more than the $600, though it would need a lot more memory. Of course, if you regard it as a console (=appliance), the idea of Linux on it is a little funny. To me it looks more like a workstation, with much more processing power than most x86 machines you can buy these days.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    20. Re:What practical things have people done... by Nazmun · · Score: 1

      Err, the ps3 version of media center (if one is created) should be pretty good actually. It functions decently on a xbox which has far less memory and processing power. With the processing power in the cell it should be able to handle high definition video. Also Sony says the ps2 does take usb hard drives so you can get a cheap one going that route.

      Hardware wise Sony seems to be pretty lenient on what they will allow compared to past and present consoles by them and everyone else (no more sticking with just their proprietary memory cards). All usb hardware should work with appropriate drivers. Linux will be installable without spending time trying to break the drm or other security features(like you had to do with xbox and every other console) and it will be a professional version by YDL (will be made free download 2 weeks after release).

      The only thing the open source community needs to do is make software like the xbox media center. Once the prices begin to fall on the ps3 i think it will be a bigger as far as open source dev goes than an xbox. The power in it should allow for more possiblilities.

      --
      Hmmm... Pie...
    21. Re:What practical things have people done... by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Unlikely to happen, IIRC a PS2 Linux kit running Apache survived a Slashdotting.

    22. Re:What practical things have people done... by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1

      SIMD and lack of branch predictors makes for a shitty webserver. A renderfarm would fit the bill, though.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    23. Re:What practical things have people done... by AcidLacedPenguiN · · Score: 1

      did it not get slashdotted? As far as I know the definition of a slashdotting (from wikipedia) "Historically, sites that received a mention on Slashdot could get "Slashdotted" if the flood of attention that the link generated overwhelmed their servers.". If it didn't overwhelm the server then it obviously didn't get slashdotted did it?

      --
      disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
  3. Drivers? by gentimjs · · Score: 1

    But will there be drivers for anything? I mean, booting the kernel is fine and dandy but if we dont get video out (even for text console) or network (to ssh into or whatever) than what actual use will it be ?

    1. Re:Drivers? by Yfrwlf · · Score: 1

      With all the hackers out there, and Linux being open sourced and viewable, it won't be hard to make the two talk to each other and won't be too long before you see Wii Media Center and PS3 Media Center available for each, would be my guess.

      --
      Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
    2. Re:Drivers? by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      This is what I'm personally hoping for. The current Xbox Media Center is great; however, you can't play HD content on it, though it does a nice job of up converting to 720p so I've heard. But having an official way to run Linux on the PS3 would allow an easily released PS3 Media Center which should be able to handle HD content without issue. Adding a port of MythTV for live TV stream would also be nice.

  4. Actually... by aztektum · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "This won't stop you from putting Yellow Dog on the PS3 or running WiiLi, a live Linux CD for the Wii."

    <minirant>I will be too busy playing fucking games on it to want to do the above. For all the bitchin on /. about cellphones with cameras, mp3 players and web browsers, why does Linux on everything seem to get accolades?</minirant>

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
    1. Re:Actually... by twistedsymphony · · Score: 2, Funny

      Have you seen the launch lineup? Something tells me if you actually bought one you'd have plenty of free time to spend installing Linux on it.

      --
      Collector's Edition
    2. Re:Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      Parent wrote: I will be too busy playing fucking games on it to want to do the above. For all the bitchin on /. about cellphones with cameras, mp3 players and web browsers, why does Linux on everything seem to get accolades?


      Some of us will not be too busy playing fucking games ('though that particular kind sound kinda fun) since I get bored of the games after about 4 hours of gameplay. OTOH, I have a fair amount (20+ years) of embedded systems progamming experience; and Linux on a Cell chip will keep me entertained for literally months or years.


      Why does Linux on everything get accolades? It doesn't unless there's a reasonably open development environment -- but if there is, it enables a bigger and better and more educational game than any console game ever was.

    3. Re:Actually... by damiangerous · · Score: 1
      Are you kidding? The Wii has the best launch list Nintendo has ever had, probably one of the best ever. There's good titles in all the major genres.

      RPGs/strategy: Zelda, Marvel: UA
      FPS: Far Cry, Red Steel, Splinter Cell, CoD 3
      Flight: Blazing Angels
      Racing: NFS: Carbon (not a racing fan, so I don't know if this one is actually quality but it's a name franchise)
      Platformers: Metal Slug, Rayman

      Not to mention the oddball social and party games like WarioWare, Elebits, Monkey Ball and the Wii specific titles.

      Oh and there's also the Virtual Console.

    4. Re:Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Hardware is like bread and Linux is strawberry jam. When someone comes up with a new kind of bread, I put strawberry jam on it and eat it. Why would I put strawberry jam on this bread which is meant to be eaten with cheeze? Well I don't care what you think. I like bread, I like strawberry jam, and the first thing that comes to my mind when I see a new bread is to try it with strawberry jam.

    5. Re:Actually... by twistedsymphony · · Score: 1

      I was actually referring to the PS3... I agree that the Wii will leave buyers plenty entertained.

      --
      Collector's Edition
  5. Linux *DOES* impact my buying decision. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    I will by the console(s) that have Linux supported in a friendly way by the manufacturer.


    I do this for 3 reasons.

    • I've been a fan of non-Wintel computers for quite some time (Apple ][, Amiga, Mac, at home and Suns at work) - and will buy it for the novelty factor,
    • I'm looking for a computer-like box for my living room - if the PS3 can do computer stuff (this includes my ability to run shell scripts) - I will use it as my living room computer instead of the mac mini I'm considering, and
    • I know Linux, and think it'd be fun to see what a game console can do if I can program it.

    I'm not alone in being a fan of non-wintel computers - so I'm not alone in this influencing my decision heavily. However I haven't bought a pure-game console since the Atari 2600 (the games themselves bore me, though I find the technology interesting)


    PLEASE, manufacturers, support Linux. I'm not alone here.

  6. For anybody reading the sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    running WiiLi, a live Linux CD for the Wii.
    If you actually go to the WiiLi site, apparently some college doofus thinks he's going to make be able to make live Linux CDs for the Wii with:

      * Absolutely no prior knowledge of the other console linuxes to date (how they work, how they boot, and the difficulties with them)
      * No actual knowledge of the Wii more than what's out there

    So in other words, he lacks two fundamental things:

      * No knowledge of how the hardware works, so he probably won't be able to get things to display at the very least
      * No knowledge of how to burn a "CD" that will somehow magically boot on the Wii... which btw, the gamecube won't run cds even with modchips... you need DVDs.

    On top of all of this, he thinks he can do the impossible-- bypass something like 10 years or more worth of research into not letting homebrew cds boot on consoles.

    This is nothing more than a pipe dream by some kid who's probably never used a compiler before... nothing to see here. He's doing this as a "final project" for college-- He'll probably get an A because of a mass of paperwork documenting all of his various struggles and why he realizes that he could never get it to work.

    Dumbass, I swear.
    1. Re:For anybody reading the sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The same AC here...

      I guess what pisses me off the most about this, is this is obviously a kid who is giving false hope to anyone hoping to get a linux on Wii. By the time any real projects are up, he'll be at the top of google's list, and anyone with interest will think that there's no real progress being made.

      So he's taking interest and attention away from any real potential linux projects, and that fucking sucks.

      And with that I'm done fuming.

    2. Re:For anybody reading the sites by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      I think it is probably a joke/prank, I mean just look at the name WiiLi.

      (For those that still don't get the joke, it's a linux distribution called "Willy", that happens to run on the Wii)

  7. says who? by brunascle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    not to queston LinuxDevices' integrity, but what's their source on this? it didnt mention anyone, it just kinda flat out said it.

  8. Say goodbye to WiiLi... by Chrismith · · Score: 2, Funny
    From the WiiLi website:

    Please DO NOT Digg/Slashdot this server, I'm just setting it up and is not ready for high load!

    Since their computers will be melting into slag fairly quickly, we may not be running Linux on the Wii after all.

    1. Re:Say goodbye to WiiLi... by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      <a href="http://www.wiili.org.nyud.net:8080/index.ph<nobr>p<wbr></wbr></nobr> ?title=Main_Page">Coral Cache link for the lazy</a>. It doesn't currently work now that the site itself's dead, but you can blame the lazy people for that.

    2. Re:Say goodbye to WiiLi... by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      Oops, messed up the HTML again.

  9. Obligatory... by JoshDM · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...but does it ru... uh, nevermind.

  10. Sony not gonna let you do homebrew--Deal with it! by elrous0 · · Score: 1
    I've said it before and I'll say it again:

    Sony are control freaks. They are not going to let you do homebrew games on the PS3. Their systems are ALWAYS locked down tight. If you want to see the kind of "Linux" you'll get on the PS3, look no further than the "Linux" they offered on the PS2. It will be just as worthless.

    -Eric

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  11. I wouldn't expect to run WiiLi anytime soon by assassinator42 · · Score: 1

    From what I gathered from the Wiki before it went down, they don't even have a Wii, yet alone a way to break the protection. Meanwhile, the PS3 will have a Linux distribution apparently ready to run at launch.

  12. PS3 very supportive by androvsky · · Score: 1
    It might be worth noting that in a video of the PS3 menu that engadget released, it showed an option for "Install other OS", and under it read something along the lines of "No partition was detected on the hard drive for alternate OS", and had some directions on how to go about creating one. So just grab a usb keyboard and mouse, plug PS3 into an HDTV (you were going to anyway, right?), and stuff in the YDL dvd. Even the Dreamcast and Xbox 1 weren't this easy to get linux running properly.

    So not only will YDL run on the PS3, the PS3 actually encourages such things without having to mod the console. Terrasoft says you can even download the distro, so I look forward to seeing how lenient the native PS3 OS is about unsigned code running off a burned DVD. No more having to buy a $200 kit or digging up a crazy sync-on-green monitor either. It even looks like other distributions could be run on it, which would be nice since I have a deep-seated loathing for Red Hat based distros. But YDL comes with not only the full GCC toolchain, but the Cell sdk too so you can play with the fun parts. Only question I have left is if there will be proper 3d accelerated nvidia drivers included.

    So no, it doesn't have linux pre-installed, but it's damn close. Don't really care, it's not like you have to pay $100 a year just to run your own programs on it (coughxbox360).

    What's sad is I really want to play Neverball with the PS3 tilt controller. I wonder how far the hardware access goes in the PS3 linux...

    1. Re:PS3 very supportive by CronoCloud · · Score: 1
      digging up a crazy sync-on-green monitor either


      Frakking SoG, I still run my kit using NTSC (Xgsx fixed for 640x448 rather than the default 610x404 at least)

      For my sake I consider the $200 I paid for the kit, money well spent.

      I personally thought the YDL decision was pretty obvious after some thinking. They used Red Hat for the PS2, why not use Fedora on the PS3 with a distro that already has PPC support.

      They've got a package list up on the YDL website now so you could check to see if there are any accelerated X packages. Hmmm, don't see it listed but I thought I had read somewhere that X on the PS3 would be accelerated

      What's interesting about the list is what's there and what isn't there.

      Mono's there
      RXVT isn't
      No nethack or ffmpeg either.
      pygtk and pyqt but no wxwidgets/wxpython
      no faac, faad or mp3 libs from what I could tell, no xmms either.

    2. Re:PS3 very supportive by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Does it say anywhere that binary blobs/modules for hardware accelerated graphics will NOT be included with PS3 linux?

      Whats most notable is that (acording to something I saw), the PS3 linux kit isnt including any notable media players (although I am sure that wont last long once someone checks PS3 fixes into the XMMS or FFMPEG tree :)

    3. Re:PS3 very supportive by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      20 or 60 GB depending on the model. The HD is user upgradable, uses standard 2.5" laptop drives.

      I don't think there's a SUSE with Cell support.

  13. PS2 Cluster by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1

    Yup, a cluster of PS2's running Linux.

    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
  14. Only One Console by Nazmun · · Score: 1

    PS3 seems to be the only console with official support (has a flipping alternate os install option in the OS that ships with it). Third party YDL is devoloping a distro for the ps3 release (free to download two weeks after they start selling discs). Also supports USB peripherals. It would be interesting what someoen can do for it using a TV tuner or HDTV tuner. Processing power shouldn't be an issue.

    At the very least once can expect a ps3 media center like the xbox.

    WII linux seems to have been a rumor and the only distribution in development is by an amateur who is doing it for college. Goodluck defeating the DRM.

    --
    Hmmm... Pie...
    1. Re:Only One Console by Zantetsuken · · Score: 1

      about the tv tuners - well, considering there are usb tuners (mostly hauppage from what I've seen), and being that bttv and ivtv drivers run pci tuners, I don't see any reason why it couldn't capture video/tv from a usb tuner...

  15. NVidia graphics by Zantetsuken · · Score: 1

    doesn't the PS3 use NVidia graphics? even if the hardware is drmed to hell with Sony spec, would NVidia really go so far away from the conventions of their regular graphics cards and chipsets that even if NVidia doesn't release drivers, SOMEBODY out there could take a modded kmod-nvidia package and adapt it to PS3 (potential) drm spec?

    1. Re:NVidia graphics by Psycosys · · Score: 1

      If Nvidia doesn't release a driver for it then it probably won't have accelerated X. The binary drivers nvidia currently releases are only for x86 and x86_64 (as far as I know), thus probably not easily modifiable to work on the PS3's Cell. There is a good possibility that the open source nv driver included with Xorg will be ported though.

  16. Rootkit curiousity... by Psycosys · · Score: 1

    I wonder if YDL comes with a rootkit preinstalled or if you have to buy and play a Sony music CD first?