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Verizon Can't Do Math
Blogger George Vaccaro recently had a problem with his Verizon based on an unfortunate miscommunication of currency. The crux of the matter was that he was quoted .002 cents per kilobyte for data during a trip to Canada but was charged .002 dollars. Normally this would have been an easy fix, however several humorous calls later the Verizon reps still were unable to discern between the difference between the two rates. You really have to hear it to believe it. Kudos George, you have the patience of a saint.
they did it on purpose; i used to work on one of their dsl tech support contracts and it was a nightmare to say the least.
lose != loose
Did you listen to the tape? If some one keeps quoting you 0.002 CENTS/KB what more can you do? Its up to verizon to train their staff to understand their own rates. Yes it seems like a mistake. But its on verizon. This guy did the smart thing and had the staff memeber write down that they had quoted him right. Also if you actually listen to the call you'll know that he said he had no comparison to base this off of, because he is on the unlimited plan. So yes he thought it was cheap, but thats no excuse for FIVE (TWO that we heard actually quote the price) quote the wrong price repeatedly. You simply can't defend Verizon and say this guy set out to swindle them.
According to his blog, Verizon has contacted him and said they'd waive half of the data charges. They still don't get it.
My understanding from the audio is that he originally had a rep double check to make sure the rate was .002 cents instead of .002 dollars. He even had the rep make a special note of this on his file. He also says he had an unlimited plan before, so he didn't know what the reates were supposed to be like. Regardless, I don't think it's his fault because Verizon is admitting they quoted him .002 cents, they just don't do the math correctly!
He told the supervisor at the end of the call he had recorded this, and told the supervisor he was going to put it "on his blog" and the supervisor replied "go ahead." So this guy actually had the blessing of the supervisor to post this! Then again she thinks at the time she is in the right... Good luck to her with that
.002 cents times 35893
The other day I had to help someone in payroll understand that 0.5 ("point five") hours really is equal to 0.50 ("point fifty") hours.
Don't they teach this stuff in 5th grade anymore?
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
The original audio is on putfile: http://media.putfile.com/Verizon-Bad-Math
I believe the audio on PutFile is longer (27 minutes verse the YouTube's 22 minute version).
Also, Andrea (the call rep) leaves her contact information at the end. Maybe someone here can explain this simple concept to her? Her phone number is 1-888-581-1070 (Ext. 2234)
If you call the number currently it says "The mailbox for Andrea is full"...
http://almostsmart.com
listening to that tape was downright painful, brought up my own very nasty battles with verizon a few years back. In a two year period, I had over $800 in over billings reversed but only by keeping accurate logs and countless hours. You know you're getting a rep at a place when the customer retention department refuses to talk to you. I used to think that phone companies were trained in terrorist camps, now I know better. They run them. This is why I'm with Cingular now.
Unless Verizon has changed since I was with them, he'll get the money back if he fights for it, but it won't be easy.
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
I wanted to write Verizon Wireless directly to thank them for providing us with such excruciating entertainment.
Funny thing...The link now leads to a page to purchase new Verizon products instead.
Does anyone at Verizon begin to understand the nature of this public relations fiasco yet?
It's nice that he recorded the conversations. What he needs to do next is write a letter (not an email) and mail it to them explaining the problem, specifying a date that he expects it to be resolved by, and state that he requests a confirmation letter be sent to very that the bill has been corrected. Document everything. Write down dates, times, phone numbers called, and names. If that doesn't work, follow up with a second letter stating that you feel they are not acting in good faith, give a second date for them to comply, and add at the bottom that the letter is being CC'd to the Public Utilities Commission. Then forward a copy of the two letters to the local PUC with a a cover letter explaining the problem and asking that they investigate. Phone companies HATE the PUC and they will jump when you mention them.
Every time I've had an issue with the phone company this always resolves it. I've only had to write to the PUC about a company twice. Usually mentioning the PUC to the company will wake them up without you having to write a letter.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
This is about 16 minutes in:
.002 dollars and .002 cents? .002 dollars.
George: Do you recognize there is a difference between one dollar and one cent?
Andrea: Definitely.
George: Do you recognize there is a difference between half a dollar and half a cent?
Andrea: Definitely.
George: Do you therefore recognize there is a difference between
Andrea: No... There's no
George: Of course there is.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
No, verizon repeatedly say "its not dollars"
Bush and Blair ate my sig!
I think I might have approached it like this: "Ok, so 1 kilobyte costs .002 cents, right? So how much is 2 kilobytes? .004 cents, ok? How much would 5 kilobytes be? .01 cents? Still wtih me? Ok, how about 50 kilobytes? .1 cents, right? And 500 kilobytes would be 1 cent, you still with me? If 500 kilobytes is 1 cent, how much is 1000 kilobytes? 2 cents? Ok, 1000 kilobytes costs 2 cents, how many of those did I use? About 36, right? So if each one is 2 cents, then that should be about 72 cents, right? So how come you're charging me almost 72 DOLLARS?" The point is to NEVER let them multiply anything by .002, always keep it in scale, always keep it in cents, scale it up until you're talking whole cents, then go from there.
It was in Britain. The shop in question was Debenhams. A british shop in euroland would give change in Euros.
Slashdot doesn't accept the €uro Symbol?
Try the HTML entity.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
I ran into this sort of problem just last week, with an otherwise competent employee trying to do some measurements for a recipe. The recipe was given to her over the phone, and the person only specified the numbers. It turned out the numbers were in fluid ounces but her measuring device was labeled in millileters, so she ended up flip-flopping randomly between fl. oz. and ml in her calculations, leading to all sorts of problems.
Here's the information for Andrea. At the time of posting this, her voicemail box is already full.
Andrea: 1-888-581-1070 (Ext. 2234)
Try actually thinking for yourself. It's quite refreshing.
Don't worry, Eigenvalues evolved as a trick to help solve differential equations (generally insoluble by the human mind) in the course of quantum chemistry theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eigenvalue
So don't feel bad, humans cannot solve differential equations. It is why we invented computers. (Very few people realise that.) This however does not stop educational institutions from trying to force students to memorise the solutions to differential equations, sigh.
Babbage's Analytical Engine:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/lpae.html
Bush's Differential Analyzer:
http://web.mit.edu/mindell/www/analyzer.htm
(ballistic firing solutions used throughout WWII engagements)
ENIAC:
http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/comphist/eniac-story.htm
Gear's programs:
http://www.cs.uiuc.edu/about/history.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing
So again, don't feel bad, I cannot emphasise enough that the human brain is incapable of systematically solving differential equations. Intuitive solutions have arisen, been tested empirically and named after their various discoverers though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_equatio
http://www.civilized.com/
One more time: we invented computers to solve differential equations, forcing students to memorise them is asinine.
This is a bee in my bonnet because it prevented me from getting to grad school in pure science while being a chronic marijuana smoker, the short term memory issue was a bit of a problem in this respect, but only only differential calculus was a problem while stoned, the rest of a pure science undergrad was a breeze because it was all logical bottom-up theory. Memorisation is not knowledge and intelligence.
Most undergrad programs have since relaxed their requirements in this respect, too late for me however.
When I was working for the database end of the billing system for a Telco (and their size was a fraction from Verizon) they ran into the following problem:
The month has only 30 days!
I kid you not. See, the problem with telco billing systems is not necessarily their complexity (it has a fair amount of this, but after all is said and done it's an accounting system), but the massive amount of data those systems need to process.
Every damn call generates a CDR (call data record), which is fed into the billing system and a hickup of the system for only a couple hours, or to deal with non-streamlined issues (like retrieving and actually correcting an old invoice) is a severe disruption of the whole system. Here's a hopefully not too crappy analogy:
You miss your train at London Paddington Station for Cardiff. It's not your fault, you where there in time, but the automatic gate didn't recognize your valid ticket and you thus missed the train.
The train operator will not stop the train at Swindon and have it return to Paddington just because they fucked up. They will cheerfully honour your ticket and let you board the next available train to Cardiff.
Anything else would be just too much a disruption of the flow how a train network works.
This certainly shouldn't justify rotten customer service, or a guy with a strange accent in a call center in Bangalore who actually doesn't know what he's talking about. Just some perspective on why it may just not be possible to actually correct an invoice already generated. (You can argue that the bone heads designing the system should have thought of it. But since they probably didn't your second best choice is a credit on the next invoice).
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
I've worked in a call center (Comcast High Speed Internet Technical Support). It's nothing like that. I don't think even the most nazi call center boss you can find would do that. For two reasons:
1) Nobody would work there.
2) A recording would do the job far better.
Basically, how it works is that you are told to give the customer accurate information to the best of your ability (although slanted in favour of the company). You also follow guidelines while in the call, to keep in accordance with company policy. You can get in trouble for going outside of those guidelines, but they are guidelines, not rules. The whole reason you are there, instead of a recording is to keep the customer happy.
Now, what I would have done in this case (and would have gotten full support from my supervisor), would have been to credit the ~$60 back to the customer's account, and inform him that he will see the credit on next month's bill. (We actually were only allowed to credit a maximum of $50 without going through the billing department, but the point remains).
No, I think the short and sweet of this story is that Verizon employs morons. (And just a tip, if you ever call Comcast, and get someone with a Texas accent, ask if they are from Lubbock. If they say "yes", then just hang up and call back).
No, but that's irrelevant because he has permission -- twice. Once at the beginning of the call when the recording says "this call may be monitored or recorded for quality control or training purposes" and again at the end of the call when Andrea tells him it's OK to post the recording on his blog.
everything in moderation