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Neverwinter Nights 2 Review
Neverwinter Nights was like an arrow of Zonk-slaying aimed directly at my gamer heart. I've been a table-top player since grade school, and a CRPG version of Dungeons and Dragons with the (at the time) new 3.0 rule set was tremendously exciting. Some four years later, and the sequel had me equally excited. Neverwinter Nights 2 was developed by Obsidian (of Planescape: Torment fame), using a fairly faithful version of the newer 3.5 rules. The result is a game that oozes D&D from every pore. You've got tons of spells, prestige classes, quirky-weird races (tieflings? anybody?), and a polished, functional story that gets you from point A to point B with a minimum of pain. A recipe for a nerdgasm if there ever was one. The game itself, regrettably, suffers from a fairly big problem: they rolled a 1 on their Craft(Videogame) roll. Read on to find out why they should have taken 10 in my impressions of Neverwinter Nights 2.
NWN 2's story sees you beginning life as a 'Harborman', a person adopted by a local luminary in a small village along the Sword Coast. This is the same region of the Forgotten Realms that played host to every other D&D CRPGs you've played, so you're likely to see some familiar names in both locations and characters. There's a big evil, of course, and within the first hour of play it has interrupted your village's quaint little carnival in order to kill and maim. Once the battle's done, you're tasked by your adoptive parent to head north to the city of Neverwinter, to figure out exactly what's wrong and set things right. Along the way, you meet a cast of crazy characters who aide you on your journey. Though they mostly play into the usual D&D stereotypes (grumpy dwarf, annoying druid), there's some originality here as well. I particularly liked the aforementioned tiefling (a union between a human and a demon). She's a rogue (and thus very handy to have around), and punctuates her annoyances by exclaiming "Hells, Hells, Hells". It isn't Shakespeare, but it isn't grade-school D&D either. The story itself develops from these humble beginnings with the usual dramatic scaling that table-top gaming requires. Before long, you're fighting horrific monsters and doing a bit of world saving on the side. What could have been a hackneyed snore was actually fairly enjoyable thanks to the sheer amount of polish the designers gave the story. It's obvious they have a passion for this material, and it comes out in every witty NPC or unexpected plot-twist.
Who *you* are within this story is, of course, completely up to you. NWN 2 offers the same overly-flexible character creation system as the original. Since 3.0, D&D has gotten a lot more complicated, and this is reflected by the sometimes-overwhelming array of options you'll have when choosing your class, feats, skills, and magic spells. Every one of these, though, can be circumvented by using the 'recommend' option the game offers. While I tweaked my characters the way I wanted them, I checked in on the recommend option each time and can honestly say it would not steer you wrong. If you have no interest in choosing a 6th level feat for your dwarven Fighter, you can click right through the level-up process and not feel as though you've been cheated. At higher levels you can choose from prestige classes which offer unique gameplay styles. Some are holdovers from the original NWN, but there have been some new additions as well. It's hard to argue with the degree of customization you can achieve with the character creation system. They even have a fairly robust avatar-maker. Here, at least, there is little to complain about.
Let's go back to talking about that cute tiefling, though. She leaves something to be desired in the brains department, unfortunately. There's an option to manually tell your cohorts what to do, and in dungeons it is a requirement that you turn it on. While traveling, giving your NPCs a little free reign is fine; they'll engage the enemy and there is an option to ensure they cast the appropriate spells. In dungeons their enthusiasm will send them dashing right through traps, past big evils, and into the waiting jaws of death. What I'd really like to have seen was the option for the game to auto-pause after every 'round' of combat. Given that the game's AI is not up to the task of dungeon crawling, I would have preferred to use good-old turn-based combat to ensure maximum party survivability.
Another (much discussed) frustration is the in-game camera. To say that it is curiously designed would be to give a great deal of credit to the game's developers. I'm usually fairly sympathetic to UI problems; making something that everyone will agree is useable is very challenging. A camera, though ... this is 2006 folks. 2+1/2D games have had a useable camera for almost half a decade now. Why Obsidian felt the need to re-invent the wheel is beyond me. Thankfully, you can select yourself and your teammates via use of the F1-F4 keys; a requirement since it's quite challenging to pin them down with the mouse. If we, as gamers, can't complete the 'looking at fun stuff' part of gaming, where does that leave us? This was an inexcusable oversight, and makes you wonder how much QA Obsidian had the chance to do before the game shipped.
Graphically, Neverwinter Nights 2 is visibly better-looking than its predecessor ... if you're playing on an extremely high-end system. On my own system, I found that the game was playably smooth with almost every option turned down and a screen resolution I would have found useable in 1997. With the graphical elements turned up higher than that, my (not terrible) system began to grind and sputter. Slowdowns weren't even solely during combat. Somehow, moving from place to place also caused molasses-like framerates as well. I will say, in the games defense, that the high end XPS laptop I'm currently reviewing from Dell played the game with absolutely no hiccups. This is a laptop I could never afford to purchase for myself, but it played NWN 2 at a very high resolution with no problems whatsoever. Somehow, that's not much of a consolation.
Aurally, the game is fairly forgettable. I always looking forward to a D&D CRPG's musical accompaniment; if it's any good it's likely that it would go well with a table-top session too. The generic fight music is the highlight of the game, more's the pity. This, too, felt like a game element they just didn't have time to give full attention to. Thankfully, the voice actors that bring the NPCs to life are fairly animated. Aside from the tiefling and the dwarf, you'll find a host of unique fantasy-types awaiting your canned questions and plot-related annoyances. The voice acting is one of the strongest parts of the game, and it's a shame that the rest of the title couldn't rise to that quality level.
In fact, it's telling that the components of the campaign (the story, the voice acting, the characters) are the most polished elements here. Neverwinter Nights 2, it was hoped, would offer RPG fans another solid platform on which to make their creations come to life. In quality, the mods created with the original NWN toolset easily match he FPS offerings created in the Quake or Unreal engines. Instead, Obsidian here seems to have produced a more singular game experience. They've focused on offering a single tale ... perhaps ultimately to the detriment of all future tales that could be told with the toolset. There's already been a patch for the game, and it has improved things somewhat. Only 20/20 hindsight will be able to tell us if NWN 2 is up to the task of being the next platform for RPG modding. For now, as a singular game, Neverwinter's technical problems outweigh the story and quality of character acting that might have made this a favorite of 2006. Table-top RPG fans will still find a lot to like here, but the game is going to make you work for your fun. That's nothing new for Dungeons and Dragons players, but those with a lower tolerance for this sort of thing should probably wait for the first expansion. One would hope that by that point these issues will have been corrected, and everyone can enjoy another trip to the not-so-Forgotten Realms.
- Title: Neverwinter Nights 2
- Publisher: Atari
- Developer: Obsidian Entertainment
- System: PC
NWN 2's story sees you beginning life as a 'Harborman', a person adopted by a local luminary in a small village along the Sword Coast. This is the same region of the Forgotten Realms that played host to every other D&D CRPGs you've played, so you're likely to see some familiar names in both locations and characters. There's a big evil, of course, and within the first hour of play it has interrupted your village's quaint little carnival in order to kill and maim. Once the battle's done, you're tasked by your adoptive parent to head north to the city of Neverwinter, to figure out exactly what's wrong and set things right. Along the way, you meet a cast of crazy characters who aide you on your journey. Though they mostly play into the usual D&D stereotypes (grumpy dwarf, annoying druid), there's some originality here as well. I particularly liked the aforementioned tiefling (a union between a human and a demon). She's a rogue (and thus very handy to have around), and punctuates her annoyances by exclaiming "Hells, Hells, Hells". It isn't Shakespeare, but it isn't grade-school D&D either. The story itself develops from these humble beginnings with the usual dramatic scaling that table-top gaming requires. Before long, you're fighting horrific monsters and doing a bit of world saving on the side. What could have been a hackneyed snore was actually fairly enjoyable thanks to the sheer amount of polish the designers gave the story. It's obvious they have a passion for this material, and it comes out in every witty NPC or unexpected plot-twist.
Who *you* are within this story is, of course, completely up to you. NWN 2 offers the same overly-flexible character creation system as the original. Since 3.0, D&D has gotten a lot more complicated, and this is reflected by the sometimes-overwhelming array of options you'll have when choosing your class, feats, skills, and magic spells. Every one of these, though, can be circumvented by using the 'recommend' option the game offers. While I tweaked my characters the way I wanted them, I checked in on the recommend option each time and can honestly say it would not steer you wrong. If you have no interest in choosing a 6th level feat for your dwarven Fighter, you can click right through the level-up process and not feel as though you've been cheated. At higher levels you can choose from prestige classes which offer unique gameplay styles. Some are holdovers from the original NWN, but there have been some new additions as well. It's hard to argue with the degree of customization you can achieve with the character creation system. They even have a fairly robust avatar-maker. Here, at least, there is little to complain about.
Let's go back to talking about that cute tiefling, though. She leaves something to be desired in the brains department, unfortunately. There's an option to manually tell your cohorts what to do, and in dungeons it is a requirement that you turn it on. While traveling, giving your NPCs a little free reign is fine; they'll engage the enemy and there is an option to ensure they cast the appropriate spells. In dungeons their enthusiasm will send them dashing right through traps, past big evils, and into the waiting jaws of death. What I'd really like to have seen was the option for the game to auto-pause after every 'round' of combat. Given that the game's AI is not up to the task of dungeon crawling, I would have preferred to use good-old turn-based combat to ensure maximum party survivability.
Another (much discussed) frustration is the in-game camera. To say that it is curiously designed would be to give a great deal of credit to the game's developers. I'm usually fairly sympathetic to UI problems; making something that everyone will agree is useable is very challenging. A camera, though ... this is 2006 folks. 2+1/2D games have had a useable camera for almost half a decade now. Why Obsidian felt the need to re-invent the wheel is beyond me. Thankfully, you can select yourself and your teammates via use of the F1-F4 keys; a requirement since it's quite challenging to pin them down with the mouse. If we, as gamers, can't complete the 'looking at fun stuff' part of gaming, where does that leave us? This was an inexcusable oversight, and makes you wonder how much QA Obsidian had the chance to do before the game shipped.
Graphically, Neverwinter Nights 2 is visibly better-looking than its predecessor ... if you're playing on an extremely high-end system. On my own system, I found that the game was playably smooth with almost every option turned down and a screen resolution I would have found useable in 1997. With the graphical elements turned up higher than that, my (not terrible) system began to grind and sputter. Slowdowns weren't even solely during combat. Somehow, moving from place to place also caused molasses-like framerates as well. I will say, in the games defense, that the high end XPS laptop I'm currently reviewing from Dell played the game with absolutely no hiccups. This is a laptop I could never afford to purchase for myself, but it played NWN 2 at a very high resolution with no problems whatsoever. Somehow, that's not much of a consolation.
Aurally, the game is fairly forgettable. I always looking forward to a D&D CRPG's musical accompaniment; if it's any good it's likely that it would go well with a table-top session too. The generic fight music is the highlight of the game, more's the pity. This, too, felt like a game element they just didn't have time to give full attention to. Thankfully, the voice actors that bring the NPCs to life are fairly animated. Aside from the tiefling and the dwarf, you'll find a host of unique fantasy-types awaiting your canned questions and plot-related annoyances. The voice acting is one of the strongest parts of the game, and it's a shame that the rest of the title couldn't rise to that quality level.
In fact, it's telling that the components of the campaign (the story, the voice acting, the characters) are the most polished elements here. Neverwinter Nights 2, it was hoped, would offer RPG fans another solid platform on which to make their creations come to life. In quality, the mods created with the original NWN toolset easily match he FPS offerings created in the Quake or Unreal engines. Instead, Obsidian here seems to have produced a more singular game experience. They've focused on offering a single tale ... perhaps ultimately to the detriment of all future tales that could be told with the toolset. There's already been a patch for the game, and it has improved things somewhat. Only 20/20 hindsight will be able to tell us if NWN 2 is up to the task of being the next platform for RPG modding. For now, as a singular game, Neverwinter's technical problems outweigh the story and quality of character acting that might have made this a favorite of 2006. Table-top RPG fans will still find a lot to like here, but the game is going to make you work for your fun. That's nothing new for Dungeons and Dragons players, but those with a lower tolerance for this sort of thing should probably wait for the first expansion. One would hope that by that point these issues will have been corrected, and everyone can enjoy another trip to the not-so-Forgotten Realms.
I loved the big parties (which was axed in NWN1 and brought back to a whopping 4 in NWN2). I also loved the plethora of side quests, I am just in the beginnings of NWN2 and it seems a bit linear so far, just got into the Blacklake district. With BGII you could spend days playing and never see the main quest. This is one place I think Oblivion got it right. Is there a reason they pulled away from that gameplay?
Of course I could be biased as BG was one of my first D&D experiences, and as most of my friends are FPS type people so my exposure is limited.
But clean up the graphics to BGII, apply the new ruleset, give me a new storyline and I am happy. Zelda has been using the same playing style since the first game.
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
The camera problems are inexcusable.
The frame rates are atrocious.
The pathing is horrible. The workaround to the horrible pathing is micromanaging every character. I spend so much time in the other characters I spend next to no time trying to get a feel for my own class.
If you're in combat and for whatever stupid pathing reason can't reach your target, you get neither an error message nor any automatic movement.
If your character isn't a healer, you'll have a way harder time advancing since you pick up two damage dealing characters first. Prepare to go through every potion you pick up.
All in all, it's marginally above Bejeweled while I'm waiting for my WoW server to restart.
I'm not sure, but I will say that Planescape: Torment (also made by Obsidian) is one of the finest computer games ever made, D&D based or otherwise.
... an arrow of Zonk-slaying aimed directly at my gamer heart.
I'm sure that's supposed to be "Zork-slaying" for the old timers in the audience.
Many people can't even complete the OC due to crashes and corrupted save files, there are many feats and spells which aren't working or bugged, the need for a downloadable PWC file without in-game support is killing the PW community, and worst.. No linux dedicated server, with hefty requirements for the windows server.
The required memory to host a PW-sized module is in the 4GB range, and modules over 2GB cause the server to crash.
Obsidian claimed they'd have PW support as a priority, but it seems to be just lip service.
Atari released this game before it was ready, and it has nowhere near the polish NWN1 had when it was released.
Sad, sad sad. I pre-ordered it based on years of enjoyment building a PW with NWN1. I'm having to tell my players NWN2 is going to be impossible to work with.
Let's hope Bioware's new project, Dragon Age, is better.
Well PS:T was made by several members who are working for Obsidian now (originally, it was made by Black Isle studios - a division of Interplay - same folks that brought the original Fallout RPGs)
-- rev layle
Mmm, well, okay, you can compare them, if you talk strictly about the single-player built-in campaigns, in which case NWN is a mediocre wanna-be at best.
The thing that makes NWN head-and-shoulders superior to Baldur's Gate is the toolset and, more importantly, the Dungeon Master Client.
NWN is special because it gives you the ability to re-live the table top experience as best as possible by having an actual human being in control of the game world. NPCs can be directly role-played by the DM, just like they would be if you were sitting around a card table instead of spread out across the Net. If the players want to exhibit some burst of ingenuity, they can and the DM can make things proceed in a reasonable fashion.
Baldur's Gate is great, and so are many other computer RPGS, but they are all fundamentally limited by what the programmers allowed you to do. NWN is different -- with a DM, you can do things the makers of the game or module never imagined you doing, and the DM can tell you what the result is. Although this was also limited by the tools, which was the most obvious place for the game to be improved.
Which is why this review is basically useless to me. All it tells me is that played as a single-player CRPG like Oblivion, it's a neat implementation of 3.5 D&D rules, but basically "meh" both in content and in presentation. Okay, but so what? NWN 1 was a pretty bad single-player RPG, the original campaign was terrible, but it was on the basis of the tools and the DM client that the game became an awesome, unique experience in gaming. Since the toolset is barely touched upon and the DM client mentioned not at all, this review doesn't cover the things I actually care about in determining whether or not this is a good game.
Oh well. I don't think it runs on Linux either, so no skin off my back regardless.
The enemies of Democracy are
Did the author even play Hordes of the Underdark? There were tiefling in that expansion... Honestly, the reviewer comes off sounding like a n00b to NWN. Recommended for everything? Nerdgasm? Give me a break.
I played the game through the practice quests and found I couldn't take it, simply because of the camera.
The bulk of my play time was spent struggling to get my character from point A to B, or getting the camera to pan, turn or tilt to make quests do-able or npcs viewable.
After the walk through quests I promptly uninstalled the beast from my system and tossed the discs away. All the beautiful scenery, engrossing quests, and amazingly customizable characters in the world won't save a game in which the basic camera and movement control is hosed. Shame on developers to allow the game to ship in this state.
There are certainly elements in the above review that are valid. A high-end system is required to get good framerates with all the graphics turned on at high resolutions. It's a very modern graphics engine that's designed to last for years to come.
I found that after patch 3 (which just came out last week), many of the technical issues have been taken care of. In terms of the story, the first act is a bit slow, but things pick up considerably in the second act. Obsidian's support post-release has been quite good and there is dedicated staff to support the game after launch, much like Bioware's Live team.
Also don't forget that when you talk about Neverwinter Nights, you're talking about the official campaign. There were literally thousands of modules created for the first campaign and I suspect the second will enjoy a similar popularity. Already I'm finishing up work on the first module of the Dark Waters campaign, a piratey high-seas adventure. I know of many people planning persistent worlds, mini-games, and more. Give us builders a couple more months to get organized with the new tools and expect some fun stuff to appear.
IIRC, Bioware has relinquished development of most titles that aren't their own IP these days. Hence, why the only new Bioware games anyone has seen developed (or to be developed) directly by them are: Jade Empire and the soon to be Dragon Age and Mass Effect.
I've surely just scratched the surface of the campaign, but I've reached level 9 and have been having a great time of it. My system is far from top-end (AMD 2100, Radeon x300) but I haven't noticed any performance issues and I haven't tweaked any settings.
I can echo the complaint about the camera - it can be a pain to juggle. In NWN, we complained that it was too restricted - in NWN2 it is no longer restricted, but requires a fair bit of shifting to catch everything. Perhaps a more static camera but a game that's designed around it is better?
I made the decision early on to leave the AI characters to themselves as much as possible, and I've been pretty happy overall. As noted in the summary above, they sometimes need babysitting when near traps in dungeons - but I tend to avoid this problem by having that wonderful tielfing rogue scout ahead while stealthed.
As an aside to the discussion of mechanics: I immediately loved the dwarven fighter when we met - he made me literally LOL. And yet, he pales before how fantastic the tiefling rogue is. She is by far the best character in the Baldur's Gate/NWN series. The druid - as in BG - is annoying and was promptly dumped for the aggressive sorceress. She's a bit annoying too, but I can't argue with her effectiveness.
My religion forbids the use of sigs.
There is also a boycott going on since they have effectively eliminated Linux and Mac support for the game and have publicly stated that there will be no version for these platforms. This comes AFTER Linux and Mac gamers kept this game alive and on the shelves LONG after most games have gone the way of the dinosaur. The company that manufactured NWN2 CAN support these platforms with MONO + TAO but refuses to (or doesn't realize it can).
Regardless, I won't be purchased anything from Infogrames, ATARI or any of the other involved companies in this nightmare.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Another thing they haven't gotten down yet is the spell scaling. I need to manually grab control of my casters every round and tell them what to do (Qara: You have other spells besides Fireball. Elanee: I gave you Natural Spell and Combat Casting for a reason). There's also the issue with modes: If you don't remember activate Combat Casting right away, it will wait until after you've cast your next three spells before arbitrarily deciding to activate it (assuming you're even alive by then).
It's still a fun game, but I'll be even more impressed in a couple of years when Atari and Obsideon finally get the bugs worked out.
but i'm a solid FPS'er, so don't take my word for it! ;)
There is an unofficial AI patch for NWN2 that makes your companions considerably less retarded. It's a must install for anybody who wants to use spellcasting classes (like Qara) on the harder modes because otherwise they'll spend most of the fight tossing spells into the middle of your party. It also fixes Neeshka's retarded behavior mostly.
Here's the lowdown on it
Unfortunatly, there's not much review for the online creation stuff because online play is still quite buggy (even with the enormous patch that came out a few days ago). If they work the bugs out though, it should be quite a good game.
I read the internet for the articles.
Also, the frame rates and overall speed were terrible. It's rendering much less than Oblivion and doing it much slower. This is on an Athlon X2 4600 with a 7600GT.
A real bummer, because I had a blast playing NWN coop with a buddy. We were looking forward to this, but as it stands I can't recommend it. Anybody got suggestions for good coop-able RPGs? I am not asking about MMOs, I can't afford that much time, and anyway I can't compete with 12 year olds at games anymore.
And there was much rejoicing and celebration in the hamlet of slashdot, as their foe was finally vanquished.
... and then they built the supercollider.
NWN2 was Atari and Obsidian's doing. Atari made some debatable business decisions over something that should have been a TECHNICAL decision and the rest is history. DA looks to be a good game, even if they choose to not do a Linux or MacOS version. I just won't be buying it if there isn't a Linux client, even if unofficial.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
I did quite a bit of work with NWN 1 and ran a server for awhile. The module a friend of mine and I created is available for download at http://www.thain.org./ That said, I've heard little good about NWN II, with complaints running the gamut from performance issues to camera issues to menu issues (no more right-click->bash for objects), and really dislike the fact that Linux support has been dropped. After hearing all I've heard about NWNII from associates I trust in the area, my work with games is done.
Okay, well, anything Atari has a hand in anyways.
But the fortune quote I got at the bottom of the page is: "What a strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
I played, and tried to enjoy NWN2, but it suffers from unpolished release.
.ini files to get it to a state where game can be played.
What bugged me most is inability to effectively control your party - you ether micro-manage each character in a pause-every-second while in 'AI-off' mode or enjoy tanks chasing after low-priority targets, clerics trying to melee and casters AoE your entire party. There are no formation movement from BG2 and combat is real-time, where AI, if turned on, will override your orders.
Another problem with NWN2 - camera. It is painfully inadequate and *requires* you to modify
Last but not least - NWN2 suffers from performance issues. It was choppy in some instances on my top-of-the-line system - a lot of people with slower system reported single-digit FPS and 2+ min level loading times.
Overall - I enjoyed NWN2 but kept wishing they didn't push it out unfinished with included campaign only 2/3 done.
I remember trying out the first NWN and being very excited by the hype I'd heard about it. However, I couldn't handle playing it for more than about 20 minutes before my annoyance at how the camera worked overwhelmed the enjoyment I was deriving from the game. I shelfed the game, playing it only occasionally (since the story and graphics were quite compelling, and I am a total D&D geek). When I tried NWN2 I was disappointed with the same thing. I liked the ability in Baldur's Gate of being able to click on the map and move to the specified location.
Am I the only one that had no trouble with the camera?
There is one mode that lets it run very similar to NWN1. I just popped it into that and had no trouble at all.
My beef is with the linearity of the game.
There seem to be two paths, Good or Evil.
There also aren't more than a smattering of side quests.
Bauldur's Gate and Planescape Torment are my two favorite in the D&D rules genre. fallout tops the list if you take out the D&D restriction.
My top characters are, Minsk and Boo, Mort, and the Tiefling from PT. Shandra from NWN2 comes close to making the list, but doesn't due to spoilers which won't be mentioned here.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I have such mixed feelings on this game. However, I think I'm now tending over towards the positive end of the spectrum.
If I was reviewing this today, I'd probably rate it at an 8.5/10, or even a 9/10. Had I reviewed it a week or so ago, before the 1.03 patch, I'd have rated it a 6/10 at best. I cannot emphasise enough how much the latest patch has improved the game. The camera is usable now, the worst of the plot-breaking bugs have been fixed and the addition of anti-aliasing has improved the graphics significantly. I'm not saying that all of the issues have been addressed - not by a long stretch - but this now resembles a playable game (a late-beta, maybe) as opposed to the hideous pre-alpha mess that it is out of box.
The system requirements for this game are *harsh*. I've actually had 2 systems to run this on, as I upgraded my PC shortly after buying the game. Before going any further, I should emphasise that I believe "acceptable performance" for an RPG such as this to mean "40 fps or higher". This is, by many standards, a rather forgiving measure.
The first system I ran NWN2 on was a P4 3.4, with 1 gig of RAM and a Radeon x800 Pro. Not exactly a cutting edge system, but certainly a solid enough machine. Performance in 1024x768 full-detail was appalling. Below 10 fps, even in small areas. Only by reducing the detail and view-distance to well below the mid-point could I get acceptable performance.
My new PC is a Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66 ghz, with 2 gigs of RAM and a Gefore 7950 GX2. This manages acceptable performance in 1280x968 full detail the vast majority of the time, but does dip below 40 fps in some of the larger areas when there's a lot going on. In other words, this game is actually *heavier* on the system than Company of Heroes.
However, what you have to bear in mind is that Company of Heroes looks truly spectacular, while NWN2 looks... well... not all that much better than NWN1. If you look closely, you can see where the slowdown is coming from. Some of the models have a ridiculous number of polys. Unfortunately, little has been done from the actual visual design perspective to make them look particularly good, with the effect that they still look angular and stilted, with little realism in their movements.
In terms of environments, things vary dramatically. Some of the outdoor areas do look pretty good, particularly in the game's final chapter. However, all areas, particularly indoor areas, suffer from the same problem as areas in NWN1; as they're all crafted using generic tilesets from the toolset, they're all essentially just the same few graphics repeated over and over. This isn't always obvious outdoors, but it's a bit disappointing when the game's final few dungeons are exactly the same as the first dungeon, just with different lighting. Many of the tilesets aren't even especially pretty. Spell effects are ok and have moved on a bit from NWN1, but they're nothing to write home about. After seeing the explosion effects in Company of Heroes and... well... pretty much anything in Gears of War, this is all a bit flat.
Fortunately, the sound is much better. While the sound effects are largely recycled from NWN1, they are more or less adequate. They're supported by a really great sound-track and voice-acting that ranges from the inoffensive to the truly stellar.
Now, the gameplay...
This is where things start getting a bit more positive. The initial release was crippled by numerous UI frustrations and a near-unusable camera. However, the 1.03 patch massively improves things here, allowing the player to focus on the actual game.
Character generation is excellent, with a huge range of customisation options. More classes and races are available than in any previous installment and your choices at this point will have major consequences later. It would have been nice to have more control over how your other party members develop as they level up, for example in giving them prestige classes, but this is a fairly minor gripe.
The return to
The good news, of course, is that Intel-equipped Mac users may not be totally left out with the use of Boot Camp to install Windows XP as a dual-boot configuration for your Mac. If you have an Intel Mac with a robust video configuration (that's MacBook Pro and Mac Pro, and perhaps Intel iMacs), then you can play the game.
Don't bother trying with MacBooks or other systems with Intel GMA video. The game will install, sure enough, but will die when you launch it and attempt to initiate DirectX support that doesn't exist in these systems. I tried. Gods know I tried. (sniff)
This game has a ridiculous graphic overhead as well as a piss-poor design in comparison to NWN1 in terms of portability. It's really as if no one cared. It's still pretty to look at, although one can say the same about someone like Pam Anderson--the smart ones won't touch her, however.
I look forward to playing it, still, once I build a new PC (that is, accost someone in an alley, loot them and sell their XBox, Zune, PS3 and Hello Kitty backpack).
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
I recently completed the campaign and I found chapters one and two to be amazing (plot wise anyway) however the last chapter drops the ball. It could be described accurately as two hours of buildup and two minutes of anti-climax, battles which were alluded to from halfway through chapter two ended in five minutes and were exceptionally easy to complete. Nothing new was added in the third chapter, opponents you were fighting from level 1 were just thrown at you in ever increasing numbers and it was all strung together with couple of slideshows to explain what was going on and why. To be fair Neverwinter Nights 2 has some large clichés but did they have to turn the king into an endurance test? Repeatedly killing it then smashing up the room is an ending I have seen a thousand times before which I thought could not make it any worse until I watched the ending slideshow.
As a late-twenties nerd with fond memories of many a college weekend spent with the tabletop D&D variants, my biggest problem with NW2 (after about 3-4 hours of play, which was all I could stomach) is the pacing. Not in terms of script or anything like that; I mean more in terms of the overall flow of combat. With things happening in realtime - and yes, I know I can pause - and with throwaway wilderness or dungeon battles around every turn, no matter how closely the rules mirror the tabletop version, it's not going to FEEL like pizza-and-coke-and-DM-mat fridays. In a five hour session with the original, we'd only see maybe 3 or 4 smaller battles, each one difficult, unique, and requiring clever solutions and some lucky rolls to survive. There was no such thing as multiple random packs of three wolves in a field because that'd be boring as hell to handle, and the DM just wouldn't bother. I guess I'm lamenting a carefully crafted turn-based structure designed for intricate set-piece scuffles being shoehorned onto a basic top-down hack-and-slash, really. Toss around electronic dice rolls and carefully crafted rulesets mirroring the original all you want; if I'm spending most of my time letting the ai just swing at random mob #372, it's not going to feel like D&D.
By the same token, the "rest anytime out of combat" idea is incredibly detrimental to the whole affair. In the tabletop version, we'd maybe get 1 or 2 rest stops in a nightly session, and as a wizard, trying to predict what spells you'd be using the next day was a major undertaking. Here, once the last enemy in a group falls, click a button and wait 5 seconds; all your spells come rushing back. I suppose it's a necessity with the aforementioned combat-heavy exploration, but it plays havok with class balance (a warrior is no match for a wizard when the wizard gets to enter every combat with a full complement of spells) and even further serves to alienate the CRPG from its pen-and-paper predescessor.
I'm not sure I could really describe a computer game that could accurately depict a real D&D session; but if it DID exist, it would look little like this attempt. NW2 (and NW1, for that matter) attempt to be both an electronic version of a pen-and-paper RPG and a serviceable, fast-paced action game in a fantasy setting. Ultimately, it falls flat on its face in both arenas. Baldur's Gate, by sticking closer to the action side of things and tweaking the rules away from the original wherever it seemed necessary, managed to produce the latter of these two extremes with much more success. I've never seen any computer game come close to succeeding in an accurate portrayal of the tabletop game, though I don't want to discourage companies from continuing to try; if someone actually DID manage to balance it right, with all turn-based action and little or no battles that weren't just throwaway scuffles, it could be something truly fantastic.
I have a bad feeling about Obsidian's future. This is the second game they've released with severe playability issues for many people (and a seeming lack of strong QA KOTOR2 also had tons of bugs. I couldn't even finish the PC version because of a CTD, even on a clean Windows and driver install.). Whether this has been because of publishers rushing them (which was the big rumor over KOTOR2), Obsidian still runs the risk of struggling as a company if they continue to down this path (whether its their fault or not, sadly.)
.exe!). The help I received on the forums (From Obsidian people) was "Try reinstalling."
I've spent multiple hundreds upgrading my PC this year and can run Quake 4, FEAR, Company of Heroes, etc wonderfully. But I've uninstalled NWN2 because it ran for crap and more recently I was running into an inability to patch to current (FFS release a standalone
Try releasing useable software.
No sig for you!!
I'm really sad about NWN2. I was really excited about it. I pre-ordered the collectors edition, and went to get it on launch...and there was already an 87MB patch out for it... I expected the actual game to be pretty average (in terms of story), which it is; but I also expected the engine and toolset to be really spectacular (which they are not). The 1.02 patch entirely broke the game for me, such that it would not even load, the 1.03 patch has made it playable again, but the engine has not gotten much better. My system is well beyond decent, it's almost brand new, high end, designed specifically for gaming...I spent a good deal of time and money putting it together...and NWN2 is sluggish, at best. I tend to run games with maxed settings at 1600x1200, and have never had a problem before. My system doesn't struggle with any other games. I can run HL2, Civ 4, and WoW with all settings maxed at the same time and swap between them...I stop every unnecessary process on my machine when I'm playing NWN2...and I still have to turn the settings down...and it's still sluggish. Oblivion doesn't have these problems. Sure it doesn't run too well on the 360 (and excusing their god-awful character animation), but on my machine it runs just fine with everything maxed, I never drop below 60FPS....With NWN2 I tend to get around 16. Something is very wrong with the engine. It's like they didn't profile it at all. Building for machines that don't exist yet is one thing...this is far worse. The toolset is pretty bad too. I had to go online and find a bunch of plugins just to get it to be as functional as the NWN toolset. With the NWN toolset, I just sat down and started making things, it was pretty intuitive and it made sense. There is NOTHING intuitive about the NWN2 toolset. I had so much hope for this game, but unless they really make some changes in future patches I don't see it getting much better. I'm still hoping though. And I did actually play through the entire game despite my irritation. Please Obsidian, fix this thing.
Frag 'em all...
... it's going to suck until they release two expansions & "borrow" a lot of custom content from players. Oh yeah, good luck running an immersive Persistent Online World with it. I was thinking about converting the PW I run to NWN 2 but realized that the average area size was around 15MB which would in turn put the NWN2 version of the my module up around 5GB in file size. Sorry, but I don't feel like buying $3000 in hardware to run a game server.
Oh yeah, the DM client also crashes the server upon entry. Way to go.
There is a war going on for your mind.
"This is the same region of the Forgotten Realms that played host to every other D&D CRPGs you've played"
Pools of Radiance was in Phlan and Hillsfar was in... well... Hillsfar. Neither of these are along the Sword Coast. They're east of Cormyr even. I'm pretty sure that Secret of the Silver Blades as more inland as well.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
The camera is the absolute worst implementation that I've ever had the misfortune of having to use in a game. The only other game that I've heard of with similar camera complaints would be the mess that is Mage Knight Apocalypse. (I still can't get over the fact that some people paid $50 for that POS!) The camera is so bad to me, that I almost stopped playing because of it.
Graphics: If you have your camera zoomed out to the max, like I do most of the time, the graphics look identical to NWN1 for the most part. It is only when you zoom in for closeups of characters, buildings, etc. that the improved graphics become apparent. Toss into this that Obsidian re-used ALOT of old Bioware assets, especially the background scenery stuff like market stalls, etc. All options maxxed. Still suffer from occasional slowdowns here as well, on a not too shabby system.
Sound: OK. Most of the new sounds are for the new campaign. Almost everything else is, again, re-used ancient(some from BG1) sounds, effects, and voices.
Cutscenes: OMFG! Could they have packed any more gratuitously useless cutscenes into this game?! WAY too many cut scenes, which really offer nothing to the story, and only serve to slow the already slow pace of the game.
Dialog choices: From testing a few times, it would appear that most dialog choices all end up with the same last 2 or 3 "screens" of text. At most you'll gain/lose influence with various party members.
Act I has the worst pacing of the campaign so far for me. (Part way through Act II.) Levelling is a little too quick IMO as well, as I ended up Act I at c. level 11 or 12...
It's a good thing that this game has a construction set, and online play potential, but I'd stay away from it unless you are RPG starved(G3 would be a better buy short term) or REALLY love AD&D.
Good to see a review for a PC game here.
Also, Obsidian doesn't have much to do with Torment, they simply have Torment's lead designer on staff.
but then I read the comments and reviews which all pointed in the same direction as this thread. I'm glad I bought M2:TW this weekend instead. Hopefully, we will see some good patches for NWN2 that will restore the franchise's honor.
I'm willing to bet this boycott is about as effective as taking two aspirin for a gunshot wound.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
NWNII reeks of big corporate popular name cash cow milking, the 14 hour game play turnaround for maximum repeat $60 a pop MBA, sucker wallet fishing. It's the same marketing hype, tastes great, less filling, mile wide and inch deep, fool you out of your money grift game so prevalent these days. In my opinion, NWNII lives fast and will leave a beautiful corpse after its owners run laughing to the bank at your expense.
I recommend waiting a year for the modders to fix it and the price to drop to $19.99.
Holy crap! That has to be the longest article I've ever seen on Slashdot that didn't contain a single link.
If your character isn't a healer, you'll have a way harder time advancing since you pick up two damage dealing characters first. Prepare to go through every potion you pick up.
Or... you could just (r)est
Personally, I have no trouble getting two fighters first. I've always subscribed to the view that it's better to win faster than lose slower.
Agreed: horrible. I loved NWN but I couldn't even stand playing NWN2 long enough to get my party to Neverwinter. I've certainly learned my lesson about preordering games based on their reputation.
I have a high-end dual-core PC with GF7900. With all the graphical effects turned up to the max the game looks barely passable for 2006 (except maybe for the terrible textures and icons), but runs like a slideshow, and the cursor lags so it's impossible to click on anything.
With all effects turned off the frame rate is tolerable, but the game looks even worse than the original NWN did -- maybe about as good as Baldur's Gate 2.
And the inventory icons -- how the hell did they manage to screw that up? They are all identically colored and shaped 16-by-16 pixel blobs on a huge ugly grid. I'm just a programmer but even I know that humans recognize icons by their shape and color. How is it possible that their art director wasn't aware of this? (See World of Warcraft for icon-based inventory done right, or just give up and use a list-based system like Oblivion's, which was perfectly acceptable.)
Shrivel-cock may be the greatest word combine ever...
lich-loved-templated-dire-vampiric-badger?
If Zonk is a DM, I feel sorry for his players. Actually, I feel sorry for any player whose DM decides that particular undead aberration is worth a try.
Don't get me wrong, so far Neverwinter Nights 2 is one of the most enjoyable games I've played in months. But it certainly does have problems. Bad AI, Bugs, and the occasional terrible dungeon that feels like a bad Diablo 2 area don't help it.If a company could take the Baldurs Gate formula and just make it 3d I'd buy it right away.
However, the first couple of patches have made some worthwhile fixes, and the more you play, the "less bad" it becomes. I'm actually enjoying it, and have put more time into this game than anything else other than Falcon4: Allied force, and the original NWN in the past 12 months.
The biggest disappointments in my opinion are 1) the manual and 2) the ditching of the radial menus and changing how the quickbar works. However, give it a few hours to get used to, and figure out a few of the quirks that you may miss from a skim of the manual (such as the requirement to HOLD DOWN right-mouse to get the menu up, rather than just click) and the quirks become less of an issue. They're more of a "but NWN1 did it differently" issue than anything else.
The graphics are much improved over NWN - the second patch contains a few speed-ups that make a noticable difference to frame-rate. The campaign is a million times better than the original (think: baldurs gate in NWN+ engine). The toolset is still there. The game definately feels slightly rushed (perhaps to get it out before christmas) but its good to see that at least the patches are regular and beneficial - and I haven't had it crash yet, at least.
What I'm saying is that if you're a D&D fan, give it a shot, and keep in mind that it may take a couple of hours of fumbling around lost (if you played NWN) to get "into" it.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
There's little further to say on the subject...
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Zonk's review, in my opinion, misses an important part of the game - the toolset. Granted, he mentions user-made modules, but he also fails to mention the more important side: adding new material to the game from the other assorted DnD v3.5 books. This is, perhaps, in part, because it can't be done. No new (sub)races can be added to the game, they all cause a crash. No new spellcasting classes can be added, unless you want to trust any given player to pick the right spells from every single spell in the game. I've heard (not tested this myself, though) that the number of base eq types is limited to 255, which could be a problem when you have a lot of different forms to add.
Sure, they made a pretty good campaign, and Khelgar's perhaps the most hilarious character I've ever encountered; however, they seem to have done this not just at the expense of the interface (which really is quite a pain), but the flexibility of the game modifications themselves. And, of course, while they put in quite a few (I think maybe even all) of the epic feats, they apparently "forgot" to make epic levels work - you can't go above level 20, even if it's unlocked in the campaign. Frankly, it looks to me like they decided to make the game around the campaign, rather than the reverse, which leads to what might as well just be another console game.
And this doesn't even mention the problems with the toolset's interface - first off, in order to be able to do much of anything (without spending twice the necessary time), you need a very high screen resolution, which means a fairly powerful computer. Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it generally true that most people don't have high-end computers? Making it so that modifications to the game can only be reasonably done by a person with a high-end computer restricts a lot of the game modification community from making significant contributions.
I think that Obsidian could learn a lot from Petroglyph in terms of how to make a flexible game.
While they're at it, maybe they could address my major complaint about the campaign: make the alignment and conversation choices somewhat more flexible, and, as part of that, add a middle-of-the-road alternative to Moire's gang and the City Watch.
The DM Client, essential for small-group multiplayer games, was released in a patch. It was decidely a beta version, with only the most basic functionality included. The 1.03 patch has improved it considerably, but it is still not truly possible to DM a game, in my opinion. Basic functions like moving creatures you aren't possessing (and making them attack in groups), and player inventory control, are absent.
The toolset is much more complex than last time, which is a blessing and a curse. Obsidian obviously elected to let the community complete the interface with plug-ins, which are fortunately starting to pop up on Neverwinter Vault. And every time that the toolset is patched, the plug-ins become useless until recompiled by the community, which is a big downer. Most of the wizards that were present in NWN1 are missing here. And building areas, especially outdoor areas, takes a ton of time... in part due to the greater power of the toolset. I'd say an average height-mapped outdoor area takes about 10x as long to build than in the tile-based system in NWN1. They will look better, but casual builders will be discouraged.
Some groups of players like the Persistent World (PW) community are also left out in the cold. The new heightmap system requires that players download a hefty walkmesh file before they can join a server. It's true that many PWs required hak packs (custom content downloads) in NWN1, but they weren't necessary. And the walkmeshes can get big; I had a 14 area module with very little in it (just maps, almost no placeables, and no area over 12x16), and the walkmesh file was 65mb.
To conclude, NWN2 has potential, but for MP builders and gamers like myself, it is incomplete. I've already gone back to NWN1, and will check back in six months to see if some of the issues have been ironed out. Hopefully most of the community won't have lost interest and moved on to the next big thing by then.
Not enough has been said about the ending to the game, which nearly tops KOTOR2 in terms of how awful it is.
Not only is it a slideshow of badly pixelated graphics...
Not only does it feature "Jim from the mail room" doing audio instead of a voice actor...
But it manages to pull in the DM cliche of all cliches - Rocks fall, everybody dies.
http://www.gamegrene.com/node/714
I recently got shoulder surgury on my right shoulder and got NWN 2 as something to do while I waited for it to heal. Since I could really move my arm back and forth to control the mouse I have to switch the mouse over to the left side. This allowed me to put my right arm on the arrow keys where the cammera is mapped. Having my hand constantly on the cammera controls worked great, I never really noticed any cammera issues. As my arm started to heal I switched the mouse back and realized it was completely unplayable without having a hand on the cam controls all the time.
My $125 graphics card can handle it with everything but shadows cranked up on a 3200+.
Set camera to top-down, zoom out, turn all spellcasters onto complete manual control. If you pause before encounters and queue up what you need, generally you're set for the battle. If it gets too much for you, crank down the difficulty a bit and play it with only one or two characters.
Personally, it's the best single-player I've played in a long, long time. I can understand where people wouldn't like it though, especially if it runs buggy on their system. I wish they'd spent more time on a serviceable AI.
I used to love playing with the toolset for hours on end. Now I'm disappointed, the new one has a lot of neat new things but lacks a lot of useability. When I went to create a new suit of armor over half of the controls were off screen and not visible. I had to enlarge the window to get them in view on a 1280x1024 display.
Things just seem overly complicated for what they were in the original toolset and people had a hard time figuring the original one out. I wouldn't be suprised if you won't see near the developement you did with NWN1. Some are arguing this is good for only "professional" builders in some forums. I say BS, it was the professionals and amatures alike that made the community. Even the guy who could barely slap two fixtures in place in the original NWN toolset had something to contribute.
Online game play is a nightmare. Originally you could put something together and go online right away. Now you have to download an extra file and hope the owner of the module publishes the link properly in the server information. People with add on packs for their modules in NWN1 were notorious for not providing direct links to the HAK files they used and that discouraged me from seeing a lot of places.
The worst part about the whole game is only TWO dragons in the toolset. You had TEN in the first one, 5 chromatic (evil) and 5 metalic (good) dragons to work with. Now you just have red and black, what a disapointment.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
NWN2 would be considerably better if it wasn't for two basic flaws: - The nigh-unusable GUI that features a terrible means of directing the camera and moving around. I would have thought they'd mastered this by now (it was fine, even excellent, in KOTOR). - The hollow characters and voice acting. Give me Minsc and Boo! Or HK-47! Whatever happened to the NPCs of yesteryear?
I'm almost positive that the druid's voice was played by Morena Baccarin, better known as Inara from firefly:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1072555/
Anyone else notice this?
Honestly it is. The controls are exactly the same, I just finished NWN2 and am playing NWN1 again. Obsidian even give you finer control in the 1.03 patch. The only problem I had with the camera is that they actualy put roofs in, and the underside of object which Bioware didnt in NWn, but they fade out. If you zoom out enough it plays the same, but then you cant see all the eye candy.
In the weeks before i got nwn2 I had just completed BG II + ToB, (not the first time but i still enjoyed it a lot) With BG II in mind I made a rogue in nwn, because i loved how you could scout ahead with your rogue in BG II in stealth mode and do the awsome sneak attacks. However I soon realised this was a major mistake. It was near to impossible to get any use out of my max'ed move silently and hide because alle the other characters would run right after me and thereby destroying any chance to scout ahead or sneak up on someone... I could of course use the broadcast commands, but everyone knows how obscure those are to use all the time. However I could have lived with my rogue not being able to sneak and backstab like i hoped, after all it was just a crippled fighter i played now. But the really anyoning thing with nwn2 is the dialogs in the game, or lack of... It's so clear that the developers have tried to save some time here, by making sentences that can asnwer several of the things you can reply, the problem is many times it just dont make any sense what so ever... And then there is the fact that there seems to be no character develepment with more than 1 or 2 of your characters throughout the game, and seriously to use the same line for a character everytime you talk to her from the first time you meet the person till your done is just plain lame... Last but not least the game lacked riddles like BG II or puzzles you had to solve...
Does anybody know that there's an AMD executable for the game? It stopped the game from stuttering with my 3800 X2.
I want to echo some of the comments made about Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. The first KOTOR was one of my favorite games of all time. Then Obsidian took over the engine from Bioware to make the sequel. The result? Crappy plot, game destroying bugs (I had to completely start over 3/4 through the game because of a saved game bug), and an overall disappointing experience. This was especially painful for me because of how much I liked the first KOTOR.
I will not be purchasing any games from Obsidian in the future, unless I read on a reputable review site that it is distinctly top notch.
FYI,
@ http://www.planewalkergames.com/ several Baldurs Gate 2 modders have formed their own company and are making an infinity engine similar game.
Have you played PnP D&D. The BBEG is pretty much always either an endurance test or a quick SoD victim. The only exception is is the Tarrasque, and that's because it requires a Wish, Miracle, or Reality Revision to even make vulnerable.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Neverwinter Nights was like an arrow of Zonk-slaying aimed directly at my gamer heart.
It hit you in the Wii?
meh
Which you'll find out when you beat the OC. It just murders framerate hard.
I am a science fantasy fan
I've never understood this line of thinking. Nobody reviewed Half-Life 2 by saying "the singleplayer campaign sucks, but Valve Hammer Editor is awesome, so I'm giving this 10/10." NWN's editing tools are absolutely no different from the editing tools of other games, yet they're always granted a special status for some reason.
Well, since you missed the entirety of what my post was about, the reason NWN's tools are different is because they not only let you create your own "maps" just like every other toolset, you are then able to direct those maps in real-time for the people playing them. That's a huge difference that very few games -- certainly none of the ones mentioned in this review or your post -- allow.
Other toolsets let you make a map that others can play in the same way they play the built-in maps, as set-in-stone creations that can only do what the map-maker originally allowed.
NWN's tools lets you be a Dungeon Master who can create your own campaigns, manage them in real time, and modify them to suit unexpected player behavior allowing for true creativity and role-playing -- not the computer version of "RP" meaning "kill stuff for exp to gain levels", but actual taking-on-a-persona role-playing. Just like a real table-top Dungeon Master with a home-made adventure module.
Does Half-Life's tools let you do that? I thought not.
Putting the toolset on a pedestal makes even less sense for NWN2 because it was strongly hyped for its supposedly awesome singleplayer campaign.
Yeah, because the single-player campaign of the original was cited as a major weak point. That doesn't mean I give a fuck any more now than I did then. NWN is not special as a single player game, and neither is NWN2 as this review makes amply clear. However as a game which allows a table-top-like experience it is absolutely unique and completely ignoring that which makes the game unique in a review is what doesn't make any sense.
The enemies of Democracy are
NWN1 was so buggy in multiplayer (your cohort would attack YOU to the exclusion of everything else!) that I ended up snapping the CD in frustration. Never again, Bioware, will I fall for that trick.
My friend bought NWN2 and decided to stop playing it until they, you know, finish the game.
One thing that got me the first time i played a character in NWN2 was the feeling the game was quite linear. I then went back and started a new char and realised how wrong I was. The game seems quite seemless if you play a character a certain way (good/evil/etc), and so you look back and think "well all i did was really what the story told me to do". But slight changes along the way seem to change the story you follow quite drastically. Originally it didnt feel like there was much of the npc-giving-little-quests-here-and-there until i'd tried it a couple of times and thought "hey last time this happened".
Generally speaking im a little dissapointed in nwn 2, thought it could have been a fair bit better and the manual for the game (if you didnt play nwn 2 (plus the expansions) is very very bad. A lot of people would be sittting there going "so i craft how?" cause the manual sticks the entire "crafting" experience into one paragraph that basically says "crafting in nwn 2 hasnt changed since nwn 1" (i had to go back to my nwn sou and hotu to remember how to do things not explained in the manual). Which made me wonder if they figured that the only people buying nwn 2 would be those who already had nwn 1 (and also shelled out for the expansions).
Even more frustrating is the fact the manual goes into rediculous depths in other areas where its just not required... very frustrating.
So, how many of you have NWN2 and not NWN1 (forgotten realms things its none of you)?
Then get going, create an account on the Atari forum and voice your dissatisfaction. Quite frankly, the probability that we get a Linux port is paper-thin, but it does'nt hurt to get counted.
:wq
NWN2 feels more like a mod than a brand new game in my opinion. It looks and feels pretty much identical to the original NWN. Even the voices are the very same. It would have been nice to at least have new voices to choose from.
I actually enjoyed NWN2 more than any CRPG I've played since Knights of the Old Republic, but that's not to say it doesn't have a lot of rough patches.
The storyline and shipping campaign are absolutely massive and detailed, there are tons of side quests, the story is really interesting once you get to Neverwinter, your actions have a pretty huge cumulative effect on the world so there's high replay value... I hit about 100 hours of playtime to finish the game, and I had an absolute blast once I decided the good heavily outweighed the bad.
I really, really dug having a stronghold of my own to build and outfit, and the portion of the game where you fight off a giant siege was one of the best gaming moments I can remember. Wish the siege was a bit longer, honestly, because it was so fun.
At times, you'll have up to 10 separate party members at a time, which is really cool. And there are some battles that are hard enough under the 'strict' ruleset (friendly fire, etc) that you'll want to save really often.
Now the bad: the graphics engine is a slug even on the latest & greatest hardware -- almost unplayable at high detail if you're dealing with Vista overhead and beta nVidia drivers, but with all of the bells & whistles turned down it's acceptable.
Party AI is pretty idiotic, but you can set each of your characters to "puppet mode" so that Quara doesn't dump 5 delay blast fireballs in the middle of the party before you can find the spacebar.
The game's buggy... really buggy. There are specific circumstances that require you go on Bioware's forums and grab variable setting console commands to finish quests, or you're just stuck in a couple places depending on the path you take through the game.
Even with all the roughness, the game is a jewel. If you don't have patience for working around buggy stuff, wait a few months for the patches to stabilize a bit. It's really worth it... I'd almost call it Baldur's Gate 3 based on the depth of the game and the writing.
Just wish I coulda nailed the Tiefling instead of ending up with the annoying creepy stalker druid chick.
Why is that?
I really loved KOTOR 1, and liked NWN1, and it's disappointing to hear to that the sequels just aren't up to par.
-"Those who fought today will die tommorow."-
Just wanted to chime in and agree with you wholeheartedly there. Darklands is one of the best, if not the best, RPG I've ever played. Why don't they remake games like that? I can't help feeling a little bored with the D&D sword and sorcery thing; I mean, how many variations can you do of the same basic fanatasy setting?
By "Forgotten Realms" I mean the game table. Cool dice. Cooler hand painted miniatures. Pizza. Pop. 12 hour sessions where nobody even remembers what day it is, let alone the time.
I was a big (huge) fan of NWN1. It came really close to actual PnP, but (IMHO) still fell way short. What it accomplished in graphical wizardry, instant gratification, and streamlining game play, it fell way short of in all the rest. NPC's were something you'd find from the worst PnP DM on his worst day (God forbid you talk to them more than once). Combat was a little planning and a few mouse clicks. More importantly, it never felt like you were actually gaming with other people. Sure, someone would occasionally make a funny remark in chat, but it wasn't like it came from a real person. And the cheating! One of the fun parts of AD&D (for me anyway) was that it provided a VERY complete set of balanced game rules. A good PnP DM (and no, not all of them are good) could take those rules and craft them into an actual GAME. Not some fiasco where people give themselves the best possible gear, highest attribute points, and instant level 20. Of course it was possible (with much work) to accomplish these things in the toolkit, but most people (myself included) had trouble finding reference material for the scripting language.
Interestingly enough, right around that time I got the urge to run an AD&D campaign PROPERLY. We started with U1, "The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh". I spent weeks rehearsing NPC roles, exploring possible plot branches, adding content to fill plot holes. I bought miniatures for every NPC and PC. Also bought a full table grid mat, clear plastic overlays, dry erase markers, combat and PC management for my laptop, etc. I also planned out an adventure progression leading from U1-3, through A1-4, T1-4, and later planned to add in X-13, and the timelords module. It was super fun.
The game went great. We averaged 15 people per session. Needless to say I was completely exhausted at the end of every session. People were developing character personalities, the plot was simmering. We had a Yahoo group getting dozens of posts talking about the plot, game, etc. People were giving me DM suggestions, and I added them into the game. This was without a doubt how gaming was supposed to be. 3.5 rules, old school adventures (ported to 3.5 by some good person), TONS of enthusiasm. It was pure gaming magic.
Then my father in law got real sick and had to move in with us. A few months later my son was born. My spare time withered up and blew away, and with it went that great PnP game.
Anyway, my point is that if you're going to put in hours and hours playing computer RPG's, you might also try PnP. Many of the technical frustrations, rude player frustrations, and just general aloneness of computer RPG's do not exist in PnP when done right. Don't get me wrong, not every PnP game is fun, but with a little effort and the right people you can put together something far beyond what any computer RPG could ever hope to accomplish.
I bought this game as soon as it came out, and yes, I noticed many bugs at first. At least patches can fix that. My biggest gripe is with the entire multiplayer gameplay system. Never before have I had so much trouble playing a multiplayer computer game. Four of us got together for a LAN party and immediately started frusting each other to the point where one of us just up and left.
One example: if one member of your party starts a conversation with someone a mile away, everyone else's screen is suddenly useless as they wait for you to finish talking with that person. Apparently no one in this game is allowed to move while someone else is chatting.
Another conversation problem: it's difficult to tell what answers your party members give to NPCs. Once they click an answer, the NPC immediately responds, giving you no time to figure out what your party member just said.
Or how about this: every clickable doorway "warps" your party without warning. This is really irritating when you're managing your inventory or collecting treasure and suddenly interrupted with a "LOADING..." screen. I can't say how many time we've had to go back (LOAD), walk ALL the way to the missed treasure, reprimand the party member for strolling off, and then go ALL the way back to the exit, only RELOAD the next map again.
Then there's pausing. Ugh. NWN2 is not a turn-based strategy game. It does not have a mode for pausing after each round. In general, I like the ability to pause. But for some reason, people that play tabletop DnD want to pause ALL the time. I have 3 problems with this:
1. At least with tabletop role playing there's stuff to talk about and decisions to be made before each person's turn. In NWN2, however, everyone is just stuck waiting for that cleric to pick a spell to drop in favor of a healing spell.
2. Pausing mars the 3D animation effects. And especially for fighters who usually just slash the nearest enemy, pausing ruins the experience.
3. The "Woah, what's going on?!" factor. You can't tell who paused or why. It's frustrating.
So why not just turn off pausing altogether? You can, but believe it or not, there are actually good times to pause. So I think a better solution would be that players have to agree to the pause. Kind of like a votekick.
That's my two cents.
...just picked up a copy at my local Target (+ pizza from their frozen food dept) and started a 100MB "patch" download.
We'll see which one is finished first - pizza, patches OR me reading crapload of replies to this article!
NWN2 has maybe a grand total of 5 quests which aren't related to the main quest, a companion or the fortress
Personally I bought this game for the single player experience and while the main quest and companion interaction start out strong, they quickly taper off and the game begins to feel quite empty
I really noticed my interest in all companions except maybe Khelgar ebb and by the end I really just didn't care about them
Obsidian has some amazingly talented people, but in their current role of milking more money from bioware's games they are releasing unfinished games lacking in originality and content
Don't get me wrong, KotoR 2 and NWN2 are both pretty good games, how could they not be with Feargus Urquhart and Chris Avellone at the helm, but it just seems they've lost their inspiration.
They need an IP of their own and a lot more time and moneym which I doubt is going to happen
unimportant little aside, obsidian did not make planescape: torment
black isle did. I know, most of black isle moved on to obsidian during Interplay's demise, but some of the best people also went to troika
some of the people from troika then signed on with obsidian after troika went down in flames, but none of the big names like Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarski
One major step backwards from NWN1 is that you can no longer assign arbitrary commands to a keyboard shortcut (such as a rogue's 'hide' skill). Instead, you must right-click to get a context menu then select from there, possibly entering sub-menus in the process. There is also a clickable "mode bar" which contains, among other things, the 'hide' skill.
This is just ridiculous. It makes the game unplayable for me, since I usually play a rogue for single-player. I'm not going press pause, find the hide button, click and, then un-pause. I refuse to do this over and over and over. The same goes for issuing party commands, which can only be accessed via the right-click context menu.
Of course, what is aggravating in single-player is simply unusable in multiplayer. Jeez, did they really test this out? "OK everybody, hang on, I gotta right-click and select some stuff from the context menu. Yes, I know we're all dying from dragon breath. Just HANG ON."
Obsidian's only made two games, NWN2 being their second.
Sure much of the Obsidian staff was in Bioware when they made PS:Torment, but that's like saying Troika Games, of Fallout fame.
Let's hope, as another poster had worried, Obsidian won't go the way of Troika, and will release less buggy products. I'm not having too much trouble with NWN2 with my low-end machine, but the camera and AI does grate.
Yeah, I had the same problem with NWN when it came out (day 1).
... a unplayable performance.
I even bought an Nvidia card (replacing my ATI) to get a better frame rate.
Had a second hard drive, striped down to the minimum to get the best frame rate possible.
The result
It wasn't until patch 1.26 that they fixed whatever bugs were causing my issues.
Still I learned my "day 1" lesson, and I totally lost interest in NWN.
I've been sporadically working on a remake/sequel/whatever to Darklands in my spare time. I'll have a few weeks over the holidays to continue. The amount of time required for research alone is overwhelming, even with access to a university library and resources like JSTOR. There's so much that goes into creating an accurate setting. My goals include a fully simulated world (trade/economy, wars, city growth, communication, etc.), realistic combat, and mythologically-accurate alchemy. It's a massive project that I wish I had time for. My first milestone is just a simple one-on-one mêlée combat in much the same style as the original Darklands combat view. I'm pretty close to this; the code in SVN displays a plane with a few models that can be selected (left-click) and told to walk around (right-click on plane). It needs a GUI display and a combat backend.
Work on the game engine itself has been difficult because PyOgre sort of died, so I switched to a combination of C++ and Python, with only the parts I need exposed via Boost.Python. Anyway, I hope to get a few people re-interested once I've gotten something playable. I don't know what I'm going to do about artwork. The Darklands Yahoo group is the best (and only) DL community around, and probably worth subscribing to for the occasional interesting post. Look for posts by Ron Losey, who has real-life experience in fighting with swords and knives, and the injuries that result.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
The whole game can be played solo --- actually all bioware and bioware-derived games after BG are too easy in this manner. It's actually pretty fun --- no stupid AI to deal with, no pathfinding issues. Of course, there are characters forced into the party at times --- don't level them up and leave them at the door with "stand your ground" command.
As a module developer, I am pleased with the NWN 2 toolset. It is significantly more powerful than the original in many respects. You have to be willing to work and relearn some of what you did with the NWN 1 toolset, but it is worth it.
Where else are you as an ordinary joe going to get a development platform with an officially endorsed 3.5ed D&D implementation, multiplayer support, a built-in 3d terrain modeler that looks great, and a DM (Dungeon Master) client? The answer is: no where. Not in Oblivion. Not in any MMORPG. No where else besides the first NWN 1, and this one is a nice update.
Give the custom content community a few more months and you will start to see some really exciting and well done modules: persistent worlds, single player, co-op, etc.
If you're sick of playing MMORPGs by someone else's rules, go reinstall NWN 1 and try playing some persistent world modules. NWN 2 modules aren't there yet, but many are under development, often by the same teams as produced great NWN 1 modules.
I'm thinking the average Body Mass Index (BMI) of this game's potential aficionados must be rather large.
I reviewed the 6 free single-player modules that developers have uploaded to the NW Vault. There are technically 8 so far, but 2 are unplayable. You can read that whole forum thread to get the in-depth reviews, but I'll give you a quick summary here.
A Dark And Stormy Knight
You begin the game on a trail. There is a door in a hillside. You enter. You battle some critters in a crypt, and get some prizes. The end.
Avendale
You come across a town, find a tavern, and recruit two NPCs to join your party. There is the standard rats-in-the-cellar quest, along with a few more difficult quests. This is probably tied for the best module so far. The quests are good, there is an evil plot to discover and defeat, etc. But it's buggy.
The Flight from Death
Good, linear, escape-from-jail story. You're falsely imprisoned, of course. There is one NPC who will join your party. The dialogues are anemic.
Shadow Keep
This one is good, because it has no pretensions. No fancy scripting, only 3 lines of dialogue for the entire module. The basic story is that you're on the road and come across a path to the Shadow Keep. You've heard stories of undead and treasure, so you go for it. It turns out there are undead, and there is treasure. That's it. The game ends when you clear the 3 or 4 levels of the keep. Still, it's real fun for trying out character builds and doing some hack & slash.
From Within - An Unknown Enemy (Prologue)
The story: you've been summoned to help some towns suffering from an unknown attack, but there's something odd about how the leaders rush you off without disclosing all the details. Poor dialogues railroad you along the plot. The scripting is ambitious, with cut-scenes and triggered events, but the developer bit off more than he could chew. So it's buggy. You'll get 1 NPC companion on this module.
Most of the modules have a length of 15 minutes to 2 hours, with the exception of Avendale. Shadow Keep & Avendale are fun, if you can accept their shortcomings. From Within will be good with more bug-fixing and enhanced dialogues. Anyway, have fun playing NWN 2, everyone.
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
I agree with the criticism of the performance and the large number of bugs in this game. However, few people have mention one of the really strong points of this game - good characters and plots. Like in Kotor2 and Planescape Torment, characters have a lot more depth than is common in computer games. Talking to them at the right moment, and saying the right things (not always obvious which the right choice is) can reveal a lot about them, and open up special skills, prestige classes and long subplots/quests. Like with Kotor2, a lot of people play through the whole game without realising this.
I disagree with Zonk, the dwarf is not a sterotypical grumpy Gimli wannabe. He is actually quite cheerful, and though he loves starting fights, he is actually of "good" alignment in the D&D sense. His idea of a good time is quite similar to a soccer hooligan, he thinks brawling is good fun for all involved. He wants to join a monestary order, because he once got his ass kicked good by a bunch of monks he started a fight with. Before the monestary in Neverwinter will accept him as a student, he has to go on a bunch of subquests that develop his emotional maturity and tolerance. As Zonk said, not Shakespeare, but head and shoulders above usual gaming stuff.
I think it is interesting to contrast looks and performance between this game and, for instance, World of Warcraft. This game imports characters straight from some 3D cad program. They have a huge amount of polygons, but they don't look bland and move stiffly. Much of the interface is small and messy with forgettable icons. WoW on the other hand manages to have amazing characters and environments despite low polygon count, just through a good art department. Icons are colorful and instantly recognizable.
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
I'm just curious because I recently had another game that ran like a dog with the onboard AC97 sound. It was a choppy unplayable mess. I pulled an old SBLive card out of my junk drawer and installed it and the game suddenly worked like a charm.
How many of you with bad framerates were using onboard AC97, and how many with good rates were using a dedicated sound card?
Clickety Click
and which bit isn't available in Linux?
This is why I didn't buy NWN. Now that I've fallen off the upgrade treadmill I no longer have a system that would be useful with NWN2.
Go for the eyes boo.. go for the eyes!
Obsidian screwed up KoToR2 (neither did the only patch ever released for it help much), now they've screwed up NWN2... and both in many of the same ways. That's it, I've learned my lesson... never again will Obsidian have any of my money. Unforunately, this debacle lowers my trust in Bioware, as well... while Bioware creates winning franchises, their "judgement" in entrusting them to a screw-it-up "developer" like Obsidian leaves much to be questioned. "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
"LinuX - Dropping the c u r t a i n on Windoze." -- Vee Schade, vschade at mindless dot com
The sequels to both of those games were also done by Obsidian. I love the crew at Obsidian, I really do. Unfortunately, if they don't watch out, they are going to end up like Troika.... great minds, great ideas, under-par execution.
I love the single player campaign. It's not as good as that of Baldur's Gate 2 or Planescape, but it's a lot better than any other recent game from them. It was linear enough that I didn't feel lost, and flexible enough that I didn't feel like I was on railroad tracks. Five party members is a damn sight better than 1+minion, and the interaction between the party was great. I really enjoyed how my choices in conversation affected my alignment and my relationship with the party members. The late game has some excellent rewards for your character that open up entirely new playstyles. Unlike many other games, you really feel like you've accomplished real world-changing advancement. And the dialog throughout the game is expertly done, both written and voice-acted.
But I find the tools to be abysmal. They're intractable and broken. Things that were easy in the NWN1 toolset are broken in this one; the simple act of linking a door is now horribly painful. Kludge is piled upon kludge making the naming scheme a horrible mess.
The engine itself is pretty, but very slow... my computer is almost strong enough to handle it, but I had to turn some of the pretty off, and drop my resolution a step or two. The 'default' choices are far too aggressive, putting you on settings that will stutter and choke your system.
But the worst problem for me is the party AI. If you play with 'hardcore' rules, certain companions are impossible to use, because they use area-effect spells on the party over and over. Forget memorizing that maximized fireball... he'll cast it at point blank range at the large fire elemental, maiming the party and doing nothing to the elemental. This might, possibly, potentially be forgivable... if a usable 'turn-pause' mode had been implemented. But there is no such thing, just a horrible AI and an interface that nearly requires you to allow your companions to use it.
I remain partially hopeful. Patches can fix the AI and the slow engine. But the Toolkit will remain a mess, I think. This doesn't bode well for third party content.
Raven
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
Dont buy this game. In order to get it to run you will probably have to uninstall all burning software you own. Thats right. Uninstall NERO, D-Tools, Alcohol etc because if you have them installed the game will complain, telling you: "Youre a pirate! and cant play! Hahah"
:( thanks anyway for everyone trying to help, too bad none of you are DEVELOPERS!
Im not joking, the only way i got to play this game was downloading a hacked NO-DVD patch even when i bought it.... no help on forums
When i got it to run.... well... welcome slogginess.... oblivion had 20-40 fps playing... and this has 5-15... ouch. Cant enter any buildings.... about 1/100 of all crates can be opened (no, im serious! not joking). The outside environments are nice but the interials... well... its like NWN1 all over again but with lower framerates.
The camera is AWFUL! Your char cant run while strafing, no no no... Mouse look controls must be middle mouse button (so if you have a 2 button mouse you cant look around properly =P)
The only way i managed to play was using Free Camera, and scroll using the keyboard. If you have played World of Warcraft and wish to set up similar controls you can forget that. Its just not possible =P
Dont buy this game... just dont, its not finished. Lets just hope it will be in the future.... Im going to wait a bit before i demand my money back.