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White House Clamps Down On USGS Publishing

An anonymous reader writes "The White House has begun implementing a new policy toward the U.S. Geological Survey, in which all scientific papers and other public documents by USGS scientists must be screened for content. The USGS communications office must now be 'alerted about information products containing high-visibility topics or topics of a policy-sensitive nature.' Subjects fitting this description might include global warming, or research on the effects of oil drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve."

93 of 417 comments (clear)

  1. I can't wait, by rednip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't wait, for the congressional hearings to start. Actions like this scream for the congressional oversight which has been sorely lacking over the last 6 years. Polowski has insisted that she won't press for impeachment, but I'm guessing that she is waiting for the evidence to come to light. The real question is where to start, the Energy policy dictated by energy companies, Halliburton corruption and it's 'loyalty tests' to get government work, or torpedoing the careers of military men who are unwilling to tow the party line. However, the squashing of 'liberal' scientific opinion is as good as any place to start, I suspect that hundreds of them would be willing to come forth.

    --
    The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    1. Re:I can't wait, by lawpoop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Pelosi was politically cunning when she said that impeachment was off the table. If she had been calling for impeachment, it would have looked very bad for her, since she was in line for the presidency, if the president and vice-president were convicted. The right-wing smear machine would have gone into overdrive. Instead, she chose to say that impeachment was "off the table", which has no meaning or binding power. Congress can move to impeach the president at any time they want. They are not bound by something Pelosi said on a talk show when she wasn't even speaker of the house. If it is "off the table", they are free to put it back on at any time.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    2. Re:I can't wait, by honkycat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If she (Pelosi) is waiting for evidence to justify impeachment, this isn't going to be it. The public outrage over this move will be muted at best -- it's too easy to explain it away (as they do) as simply giving the PR department a chance to prepare for the news release before it gets out. That may even be the truth. Still, as a scientist, a policy like this gives me chills if only for the appearance of bias.

    3. Re:I can't wait, by advocate_one · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Toe the party line" not "Tow the party line"...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    4. Re:I can't wait, by plopez · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Come to think of it threat of impeachment may be a more useful tool than actual impeachment. Besides, if Bush were booted out who would take over? Cheney, and no one wants that.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    5. Re:I can't wait, by khallow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One of the conditions of impeachment is that the President (or Vice President) has to commit "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors". Clinton commited perjury in a federal court, which is a federal felony. Bush has not commited a similar level crime. Prewar lying about US intelligence on Iraqi WMD, even if it can be proven to have occured, might not be illegal. Especially since Bush didn't claim much himself. And since many of the US allies and independent countries like Russia and China needed a pretext (even if they knew it to be false) before they'd approve an invasion of Iraq, it could be argued that the US did this merely to gain their support and for that reason did not commit an activity which merited impeachment.

      I doubt that the Democrats could get the Republicans to go with anything stronger than a verbal reprimand in the absence of truly reprehensible, well-documented actions in the White House.
    6. Re:I can't wait, by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Informative

      Normally if the President were convicted and removed from office the Vice President would take over. This is the first time we've had both in the crosshairs, though if the timing had been slightly different we might have been there with Nixon (obstruction of justice) and his VP Agnew (bribery).

      The new element is that the Speaker of the House would become president.

    7. Re:I can't wait, by tc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bush admitted ordered illegal wiretapping of US Citizens. Clinton lied about getting a blowjob from his intern.

      Are you really arguing that the latter is impeachable but not the former?

    8. Re:I can't wait, by rednip · · Score: 2, Informative

      Clinton commited perjury in a federal court, which is a federal felony.

      No, Clinton did not lie to a federal grand jury. In pre-testimony documents, he was given a definition for 'sex' which did not include 'blow job', and correctly stated on the stand that he did not have sex. However most people include a 'blow job' as sex, so when he repeated his assertion on TV, he was wrong to do so, but certainly not under oath. It is true that they not yet caught Bush or any of his Administration lying under oath, as they have never testified under oath, the Republican congress has never required it.

      After all, this is the guy who tried to kill my dad

      Was the most 'reasonable' reason I have ever heard that Bush has given for our invasion of Iraq. Perhaps congress will make the distinction that leading us into a disastrous war for a personal grudge, or to shovel money at 'loyal' contractors would be a bribery, or other 'high-crime', since the Constitution is clearly vague as to the definition of every crime except for treason. Speaking of teason, it might be hard to get them on it, unless we can prove that they knew that their buddies in Saudi Arabia where involved in the 9/11 attacks. However, since it isn't "treason, bribery, and other high crimes", two out of three will work just as well. I suspect the impeachment will involve influence peddling, and almost certainly also involving Halliburton and Saudi Arabia.

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    9. Re:I can't wait, by JJJJust · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really, though, doing the job badly isn't a high crime or misdemeanor. Bush shouldn't be impeached; he should be forced to, y'know, actually compromise. No, but breaching the public trust by deliberatly misleading the American public and circumventing the Constitution are high crimes and misdemeanors.
    10. Re:I can't wait, by interiot · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nitpick: The VP is elected, not nominated.

    11. Re:I can't wait, by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Informative
      Really, though, doing the job badly isn't a high crime or misdemeanor

      How about...

      • Attacking a sovereign country for no reason, and lying about it
      • Violating the wiretapping (telecommunications) laws
      • Violating the FISA laws
      • Torture of enemy combatants in violation of everything we stand for
      • Gangsterism as manifested in the Haliburton monopolies
      • Subversion of the constitution he was sworn to defend: Habeas Corpus
      • Holding US citizens without trial or access to a lawyer
      • Misusing the "findings" system to enable gangsterism

      ...or is all that just "doing his job poorly" to you?

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    12. Re:I can't wait, by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The former isn't necessarily illegal even though it is unconstitutional.

      Bush swore to uphold the constitution in his oath of office. If blatantly violating the constitution by intentionally subverting Habeas Corpus isn't a gross breach of his oath of office, I'd be mightily surprised. That alone is sufficient reason to impeach. To which you can add torture, wiretapping, imprisonment w/o trial or representation, and more. If the oath of office is meaningless, and Bush can lie to us with impunity, and laws don't apply to him, then we don't have a president. We have a dictator. I submit to you that in that case, we're in a lot deeper trouble than we think.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    13. Re:I can't wait, by inode_buddha · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "And when you think that Clinton was ousted for getting his cock sucked... "

      The difficulty is not that he got some. After all, that is a personal issue (no pun) between himself and his family.

      The difficulty is that he wasn't completely honest about it, likely due to marital woes. There was quite a bit to do about dodging that issue, in public no less. Some amount of that mey be unavoidable when one is a public figure.

      IMHO, GWB is far worse because his actions have affected millions of peoples lives, and not always for the better when you consider dishonesty at its core like that. I consider myself to be a fiscal conservative and vote accordingly; and I will tell you that the Bush dynasty is no conservative. They (pols) all have had the same stripe since Carter and Reagan's first term -- and yes, I voted those also.

      As for scienctific results becoming politicized, they know where their bread is buttered. The major things in the USA are funded by the public to a greater or lesser extent, and the public itself may not be properly represented in that way. Like the patent office, there needs to be reform; perhaps there is an alternative way to fund research?

      --
      C|N>K
    14. Re:I can't wait, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really, though, doing the job badly isn't a high crime or misdemeanor. Bush shouldn't be impeached; he should be forced to, y'know, actually compromise.

      That attitude really annoys me. It flies in the face of reality.

      President Bush (current) hasn't made mistakes; he knows exactly what he's doing. He's not stupid. He _IS_, though, an ideologist who is working in-line with his ideology.

      He absolutely hasn't (in his mind) made any serious mistakes even if the world disagrees, his supporters only gripe about the details _not_ the goals or even the general way how the goals are being strived for.

      He's been highly effective in getting his policy decisions passed. Even Katrina and Iraq have been policy and long-term successes. This is not "doing a job badly" at all...even if you disagree with everything -- how, why, when, and the cost -- of the policy.

      Stop giving him credit for not knowing what's going on. He's no puppet, he's the president and is leading exactly where he thinks the country should go.

      That he's wrong is an opinion that I enthusiastically support. That he's incompetent, dumb, ... doesn't fit how effective he's been even if he is doing massive damage in the process of making his ideology become reality.

    15. Re:I can't wait, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      At least he didn't lie about getting a blowjob from a consenting adult, then he'd REALLY be in trouble.

    16. Re:I can't wait, by samkass · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't forget directly violating the 14th Amendment of the Constitution:
      "The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law [...] shall not be questioned."

      Bush repeatedly referred to the US Treasury Bonds in which Social Security is invested as IOUs of questionable value back when he was trying to dismantle Social Security. One might argue that this section of the 14th Amendment, which largely deals with Civil War issues, is probably one that needs a little re-interpretation. But presumably Republicans would be against such "activist" meddling.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    17. Re:I can't wait, by macdaddy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Might I remind you of something of critical importance? Conjure up in your mind a quick mental image of Ms. Lewinski. Let me help you. That is why, my dear tc, President Clinton was impeached. After that unconscionable lack of judgement and/or eyesight we had to revoke his man card. He was already on probation for marrying Hillary. Lewinski was just too much. For shame Billy Boy. You could have at least tapped a nice ass.

    18. Re:I can't wait, by 2short · · Score: 3, Informative

      US Constitution, Article 1, section 9, Paragraph 2:

      "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

      Lincoln, I think, is covered. Bush, not so much.

    19. Re:I can't wait, by Firethorn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sure, they're valuable. But here's the point: They're essentially Government Agency S lending money to Government Agency A, who promptly [i]spends the money[/i], in fashions that many contend are wasteful. Now, both agencies are funded by tax dollars.

      When the mandataed spending by Agency S reaches the point that income no longer exceeds expenses(which they're predicting will happen in a few years), it's going to want to start cashing in those bonds. Which Agency A will have to cough up, but remember, it doesn't have the money sitting in a bank account somewhere, nor is it a business generating a profit to be used to pay the debt.

      So, how are all those Bonds/IOUs going to be paid? Either through taxes, or extra issued bonds to the public, which leads to inflation/higher interest rates which leads to less economic growth. Your social security taxes might not go up, but your general ones will have to unless the rest of government tightens it's belt and stops spending money on all sorts of wasteful stuff.

      With less economic growth, we're all worse off.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  2. Brought to you by... by Secret+Rabbit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... your unfriendly neighbourhood big brother.

    In all seriousness, does this actually surprise anyone?

    1. Re:Brought to you by... by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In all seriousness, does this actually surprise anyone?

            No. And that's the scary part. About 15 years ago we used to laugh at "government conspiracy" theorists and call them crackpots. Now I am not so sure anymore. Perhaps they were just foresighted.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Brought to you by... by rednip · · Score: 4, Informative

      About 15 years ago we used to laugh at "government conspiracy" theorists and call them crackpots. Now I am not so sure anymore. Perhaps they were just foresighted.

      Well, the vast majority of them are funny, but the one that says 'the Republican Party will attempt to control science to meet political needs' deserves a prize. How about a 'Medal of Freedom', I hear they are going pretty cheap these days.

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
  3. Or translated into "Reality" instead of "Spin" by RobertM1968 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The White House has begun implementing a new policy toward the U.S. Geological Survey, in which all scientific papers and other public documents by USGS scientists must be screened for content. The USGS communications office must now be 'alerted about information products containing high-visibility topics or topics of a policy-sensitive nature.' Subjects fitting this description might include global warming, or research on the effects of oil drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve. Anything that might have a negative impact on the economy or the current Administration's plans for despoiling our environment must be inaccessible to those of us who live on this planet and will be adversely affected by changes allowed through keeping our population uneducated about the environmental impacts. Any scientific/geological information that will allow anyone to question current Administration's energy or (lack of) environmentally friendly plans must remain inaccessible to the general public."

    1. Re:Or translated into "Reality" instead of "Spin" by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also interesting about Mark Myers the new head of the USGS (from Nature 441, 266 (18 May 2006))

      "Who is Mark Myers? That's what many US geologists are asking in the wake of an announcement that President George W. Bush will nominate Myers to head the US Geological Survey (USGS). ...Myers has a PhD in geology and has spent much of his career in Alaska, working for oil companies and for the state -- sometimes alone in remote locations, armed with a shotgun in case of grizzly bears...If confirmed by the Senate, Myers would be the first USGS director in decades to come neither from academia nor from within the agency....Myers worked most recently as head of Alaska's Division of Oil and Gas. In the past he has supported drilling for oil and gas in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge -- a protected region of Alaska. And this has spooked some environmentalists. But if he gets the USGS job, Myers says, he would stay out of any decision making: "My job is strictly to provide the data, to help people understand the data and its limitations."

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
  4. What is this!? by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Executive branch has forgotten it can't make laws.

  5. Gotta clamp down on that truth stuff by wschalle · · Score: 3, Funny

    Who knows what could happen if enough truth got out. Gives me nightmares just thinkin about it.

  6. Republican War on Science. by RyanFenton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Republican War on Science by Chris Mooney

    From the article: "This is not about stifling or suppressing our science, or politicizing our science in any way,'' Barbara Wainman, the agency's director of communications, said Wednesday. "I don't have approval authority. What it was designed to do is to improve our product flow.''

    They aren't even trying to justify their actions anymore. They're just filtering science from public view, and insisting that it is improvement.

    Ryan Fenton

    1. Re:Republican War on Science. by Jabrwock · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Classic 1984'ish stuff. You take away, then proclaim the reduction as an "improvement". I believe in the book they were using chocolate rations, but hey, information can be rationed too...

      --
      Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
    2. Re:Republican War on Science. by Thomas+the+Doubter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is truely a big deal - censorship of public information about our environment, paid for by tax dollars.

      I hereby pledge never to vote Republican again.
      Thomas

    3. Re:Republican War on Science. by hazem · · Score: 2

      I really doubt that chocolate* is the problem behind the waiste-size of Americans. Even if you love chocolate, you can only eat so much of it.

      I think, rather, that it's the infusion of the incredible amount of high fructose corn syrup and MSG in the food system of Americans. MSG makes things taste good that probably otherwise wouldn't - and is believed to suppress apetite signals. HFCS as a sweetener delivers tons of calories but doesn't interact with the apetite signalling systems the same way that glucose does. So, you're injesting tons of calories and never feeling full. I'm convinced you could put enough MSG and HFSC on dog shit that it would be "tasty" and indistinguishable from a majority of American processed food - and you still wouldn't feel full..

      Then there's the trans-fats... think of the typical high schooler's meal of doritos and a coke... mostly MSG, Transfats, and HFCS, with a bit of corn solids to hold it all together. Yum.

      I changed my diet a couple months ago - trying to get rid of those 3 things and the difference is amazing. I'm not tired all the time like I used to be, I feel generally better, I sleep better, and I've lost 10 pounds. I still eat too much crap probably (I love BBQ and Beer), but it was a simple change that's made a world of difference.

      * Most Americans don't even know what real chocolate tastes like. They think of Hershey's, which is mostly sugar and vanilla, with a tiny bit of cocoa in it. At least they haven't figured out how to make it out of HFCS...

  7. who needs science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... when you have god on your side?

    1. Re:who needs science? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That would be funny, but too many demagogues throughout history have felt the same way, and believed in the absolute rightness of what they were doing for just that reason. And it's the scariest reason of all, for it leaves no room for doubt or self-evaluation.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  8. Da, tovarisch! by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We must ensure that our scientists are entirely in accord with the Marxist-Leninist principles of eternal socialist brotherhood underlying the glorious people's revolution!

    Same shit, different century. And it worked out sooo well the last time.

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  9. Re:Riiight by Jabrwock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Riiight, I'm sure the giant government conspiracy to hide global warming is the main reason that this is being set up. Nice spin there, poster.

    I'm sure you can come up with an equally valid reason to have USGS information screened for "politically-sensitive" reasons?

    Translation: either they want to be alerted in advance of stuff they can take credit for, or they want to tweak press releases of embarassing info. It's a classic CYA move.

    --
    Magic doesn't work in my presence. My power of disbelief is too strong.
  10. Another right bites the dust by pbailey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't understand why you Americans are so agreeable when it comes to having your civil liberties squashed. Why don't you all speak up and remind your representative that you used to live in a free country and would like to once again. Enough of the government spin masters controlling everything.

    1. Re:Another right bites the dust by ClassMyAss · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem in America right now is that just as in any democracy, a bit more than half of the country agrees with the current government (at least regarding personal freedom - no question about it, the Dems only won because of Iraq) and subscribes to the notion that if you aren't doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide. And hey, we're a democracy, so if 51% of the people agree, that means the rest of us should all just bend over, right? That's what it means to be free! Combine that sentiment with the hideous educational system and attitude in this country, and it becomes a very hostile place to free scientific inquiry - people don't care whether things are true, because belief is much easier than research (especially when you're too stupid to understand the research even if you did look into it, and trust me, I've taught way too many American high school students to believe that more than a fraction are even minimally educated, let alone intelligent).

      I finally realized how bad things were going to get when I first started hearing people advance the argument that it was unconstitutional and - worse! - unpatriotic to limit their democratic "right" to vote away my freedoms. Here's a hint, America: if someone is pissed about "judicial activism" it usually means they are trying to take away a minority's right to not be punished for being a minority (and I don't mean this in the strictly racial sense). Cover your ass or you know what you get...

    2. Re:Another right bites the dust by Amouth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      do you memeber video of bush's second election night? the streets where filled with protesters.. in fact it was the first time in history that the pres couldn't walk in because they where afraid he would be shot - no one saw this in the us.. except for the people there. the news didn't cover it - sure they had people covering it but it never ever got to the air. 90% or more of the US doesn't know and doesn't give a shit what happens.. and that is how they want it.. it saddens me..

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    3. Re:Another right bites the dust by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No. The problem is that we don't know how to take action any longer.

      Have you noticed that there are no longer any classes in things like "citizenship" or "social studies" or anything to do with participating in government? We aren't told the basic truths such as the REAL power of the jury which is to determine if a law itself is bad and get rid of it.

      For example, if someone were to be prosecuted under the DMCA and the defendant wanted a trial by jury and the jury decided the DMCA wasn't good law, something could actually be done!

    4. Re:Another right bites the dust by ClassMyAss · · Score: 3, Informative
      For example, if someone were to be prosecuted under the DMCA and the defendant wanted a trial by jury and the jury decided the DMCA wasn't good law, something could actually be done!
      Very true - alas, most people have never even heard of jury nullification, although I suspect if they did, many would feel they had no right to apply it in most cases. Wikipedia claims that "Jurors are likely to be struck from the panel during voir dire if they reveal awareness of the concept of jury nullification.", although this is without a citation.
    5. Re:Another right bites the dust by miskatonic+alumnus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem in America right now is that just as in any democracy, a bit more than half of the country agrees with the current government

      I don't know if I'd go that far. Yes, many are taken in by the Machiavelli/Goebbel PR spin machine. But, I fear, many more just aren't bothered to give a shit. You see, our "leaders" have learned that when the people are starving don't say "Let them eat cake". Instead, join forces with corporations and placate them with McDonalds hamburgers and DVD's to take their minds off the fact that they will never have a slice of the pie.

    6. Re:Another right bites the dust by plopez · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1) Most Americans don't vote.
      2) When they do vote it is often meaningless due to gerrymandered districts. If you're a Brit the analogy would be the 'rotten burroughs' of the 18th and 19th century in Britian.
      3) When congress does pass laws against a president's wishes he simply issues a signing statement saying he will not enforce them. This is blatent nonfeasence, something that should get the pres. removed from office. But niether the courts or the congress have the backbone to challenge him on it.
      4) The courts are being packed with activist judges who toe the right wing agenda. Judge Alito on the Supreme Court for example is a huge suppporter of the concept of the 'unitary executive'. Meaning the president gets to do whatever the president pleases.

      All this points to a drift toward right wing authoritarian rule. The president as emporer or god-king. Lately I read some posts on the net about the only solution to this being to amend the constitution to dissolve the executive branch, go toward a bi-cameral parlimentary system. I am starting to agree with that POV.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    7. Re:Another right bites the dust by w3woody · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A few points.

      First, as the head of the Executive Branch of the government, the President has the power and the right to oversee the functioning of all departments of government. In a sense the President is the Chief Executive Officer of the United States Government. So there are no rights being trampled on here--no free speech implications--any more than if the CEO of your company asked for review of all published papers. Nothing is preventing the researchers at the USGS from taking jobs at a variety of other institutions, such as Caltech, which is doing similar work in the field.

      Second, if you've interpreted the constant bitching about the Bush Administration as being "agreeable", I'd hate to think what you think is not "agreeable." I strongly suspect many foreigners looking into the United States thinks we are the most repressed, most totalitarian "democracy" in the world because everytime our government twitches a finger or some official somewhere says something about the 1st, 2nd or 14th amendments to our constitutions (guaranteeing fundamental rights that are only granted in most European countries by law rather than by constitutional restriction--law which can be as easily repealed as it was passed) that rubs someone the wrong way, we bitch, LOUDLY, and publically. How this constant criticism, bitching, and discourse is interpreted as our government failing--rather than that of a healthy democracy engaged in healthy self-criticism, is beyond me.

      Third, I'm always amazed at foreigners who do look into this constant din of self-criticism and say "boy, you Americans are really fracked up"--who fail to engage in the same degree of healthy self-criticism in their own countries. Where are the protesters in France when the freedom to present illegal drugs in a positive light (a basic freedom of speech) was taken away and anyone who speaks about using illegal drugs in a positive way can be imprisoned for 5 years and fined up to 76,000 euros? Where were the protesters in Ireland complaining about their notion of freedom of speech, which prohibits using speech to upset the public order or the authority of the State? (Well, nevermind that one--anyone protesting that law would be upsetting the public order and questioning the authority of the State and thus subject to prison time.) source

      Where are the protesters in the United Kingdom protesting either for--or against--Tony Martin? Or the protesters complaining or demanding that the right of self defense in England needs to be preserved? The guy is cause celebrity for self defense in the United States, where self defense is considered a fundamental human right rather than an "valid legal justification" to commit murder. (And if you don't know the difference between the two, then you have no business bitching about "civil liberties" or "rights.")

      I'm not saying that these should be protested in their respective countries. What I'm saying is that these things would have been protested in the United States. (If you're an American, can you imagine the uproar if anyone even considered passing a law making it illegal to portray the use of illegal drugs in a positive light?) And while in their own respective countries they apparently were met with indifference, here in the United States they would have been strongly protested--and probably used by the citizens of France, the United Kingdom or Ireland as further evidence of American "agreeability."

    8. Re:Another right bites the dust by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We aren't told the basic truths such as the REAL power of the jury which is to determine if a law itself is bad and get rid of it.

      All too true. And the thing is is judges and prosecutors screen juries to get rid of those who believe in Jury Nullification.

      Falcon
    9. Re:Another right bites the dust by G27+Radio · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's in Fahrenheit 911 complete with the president's limo getting egged by the protesters. I always thought it odd that I never knew about that happening until I saw the movie. You would think that's the kind of thing the media would make a big deal about.

    10. Re:Another right bites the dust by saihung · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Let me introduce you to NOV - a Latin acronym that translates to "judgement notwithstanding the verdit." If the judge feels that the jury verdict differs widely from the plain facts of the case, or that the jury failed to follow his directions, he has the discretion to overrule them and make his own determination. Kind of makes the power of the jury worthless, but it's true.

    11. Re:Another right bites the dust by belmolis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The President is the CEO, not the Emperor. If the CEO tells the accountants to lie about the financial status of the company, he is not only going to be in trouble with the Board, he is probably going to go to jail. Similarly, if the CEO tells the company scientists to lie about the efficacy of a drug or the safety of an automobile, he is going to be in similar trouble. The President does ultimately ADMINISTER the executive branch, but that doesn't make its members his personal servants. They do not work for the President - they work for the People. He does not have the right to control the conclusions of professional scientists, even if they work for the government.

    12. Re:Another right bites the dust by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Informative

      Jurors are struck just for being educated, or at least for having the appearance of it. I spent a couple of days about ten years ago serving (or trying to serve, at any rate) on a jury. Several different juries, in fact. I faced a peremptory challenge every damn time, once it came out during initial questioning that I was an engineer. That's all it took, and all the other technical/scientific/degreed individuals suffered the same fate. I also noticed that the people actually selected tended to be of the welfare-mother category. Basically, anyone presumed to have sufficient critical-thinking skills to tell a prosecutor or defense attorney to stuff it was most definitely not wanted. I got asked all kinds of things, such as what kind of bumper stickers do I have on my car (none), do I have anything against black people (sorry, dude, my girlfriend is from North Africa), anything that could be used to disqualify me as a juror. When that failed, they simply resorted to a peremptory challenge, and that was that.

      What that experience taught me was that I'd best never find myself on trial for anything serious because there's no way I'd ever get a jury of my peers. Not that I'd necessarily want my peers sitting in judgment of me either, but don't expect the system to select for intelligent, educated people capable of making rational decisions because it doesn't.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  11. Re:Riiight by Qzukk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Riiight, I'm sure the giant government conspiracy to hide global warming is the main reason that this is being set up.

    Things of a "policy-sensitive nature"? Is this the new codespeak for "think of the terrorists!" or are they actually serious about restricting the flow of information regarding stuff that is not a national security issue?

    Until someone says otherwise, it's clear that this is specifically referring to things like global warming, which has always been a "policy-sensitive" issue for Bush.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  12. Rock and a hard place by dotslashdot · · Score: 2, Funny

    I guess that puts the USGS between a rock and a hard place.

  13. How To Clamp a President by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The only way to stop Bush from using "politics" to subvert our government to his destructive corporate agenda is to impeach him. He doesn't care about "accountability moments" anymore, because he's a "lame duck", no reelection carrot to discipline his manners. And losing his Republican Congress means he's extremely dangerous, because he has nothing left to lose except his Executive privileges. Which are huge, especially since Bush has spent his 6 years remaking the government according to the Unitary Executive "theory" that is his only real ideology other than unlimited money and power. He's spending OVER $3 TRILLION of your money (paid over the rest of your life) every year, on his priorities, not yours.

    Stop him now. Impeach him now. It's the only way to stop the damage before he starts "upgrading" the impeachment process itself.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:How To Clamp a President by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Funny

      I mean, didn't Clinton get impeached? It didn't seem to have any effect on him, did it?

      I'm pretty sure he stopped getting blowjobs for a while.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:How To Clamp a President by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Read the Wikipedia article on impeachment to which I linked.

      What was impeaching Clinton supposed to do? Stop him getting blowjobs? Stop him lying about cheating on his wife? Maybe it worked. Who cares?

      What it really was supposed to do was to combat Clinton's popularity. Which would have helped Gore follow him as president. Gore won the election, despite Clinton's temporarily dented popularity, and the Gore campaign's unwillingness to use Clinton to campaign in the shadow of the impeachment which hadn't targeted Gore (of course, for every reason).

      And tie up Clinton with BS so he couldn't proceed on his agenda, which was working with a very effective overall national growth. So Clinton's last couple of years were thwarted. Which, if you look at the 12 years of Republican Congress, especially the past 6 years of total Republican Federal control, is their entire agenda: thwart Clinton, roll back the clock, do nothing, break stuff. destroy the government that we use to protect ourselves from corporate anarchy and other foreign/domestic enemies.

      And "besides" that, there's the issue of justice. Bush is a criminal president. Presidents are Constitutionally immune to prosecution until they're out of office, if ever, except for the alternate procedure, impeachment, with its own justice rules that accommodate the unique political status of the accused. I thought impeachment was all BS, but at least they were going to try a president on the principle of lying to Congress, even about a trivial, personal fact. If we don't impeach Bush for his many actual heinous crimes, then we're never going to impeach a president to pursue justice. We might as well stop pretending we believe in justice, and just erect temples to gods of power and wealth.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    3. Re:How To Clamp a President by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nice try in pretending that the 2004 elections included all the new, undeniable evidence of Bush's crimes. Like the NSA warrantless wiretapping crimes, violating the FISA laws, that the NYT suppressed for over a year, sneaked across the 2004 elections, so voters couldn't use that evidence in our decisions. Or the recent destruction of Habeas Corpus. Or the catastrophic lie that Iraq is now.

      You Bush worshippers had the balls to say "get over it" when you stole the 2000 election - ignoring the majority of voters who chose Gore. Then every time Bush's catastrophes burst out of their bubble into reality, you said "now's not the time to play the blame game". Now it's "old news". You sick criminals have had your day: thousands of them.

      You hate the Constitution, but its rules for impeachment when reelection isn't in the works still rule the land - despite the dismantling and contempt your boy Bush has wreaked on it this whole decade.

      Most Americans want Bush impeached. And when his Republican Congress is finally flushed all the way down the toilet after last month's elections finally install a Democratic Congress in January, the coverups will slow to a crawl, and the terrible truth about Bush's crimes will finally start to get something like their true reporting. He'll be lucky he doesn't get lynched by an angry mob. Impeachment is a civilized mercy. The kind that real "Compassionate Conservatives" extend to even a lying deathmonger like Bush. The kind of civilization you'll never understand, in your deluded Bush worship.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  14. Re:Riiight by grendel's+mom · · Score: 5, Informative
    Try reading the article:. Since you're obviously too lazy, I'll post some of the essential points:

    "The Bush administration is clamping down on scientists at the U.S. Geological Survey, who study everything from caribou mating to global warming, subjecting them to controls on research that might go against official policy."

    The communications office must be notified "of findings or data that may be especially newsworthy, have an impact on government policy, or contradict previous public understanding to ensure that proper officials are notified and that communication strategies are developed.' and finally.... "In 2002, the USGS was forced to reverse course after warning that oil and gas drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge would harm the Porcupine caribou herd. One week later a new report followed, this time saying the caribou would not be affected."

  15. Nature of Democracy vs Democracy of Nature by NetSettler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What part of Democracy does this administration not understand?

    It's not that this administration doesn't have a coherent position, it's that that position is nearly impossible to audit because most individuals who might wish to don't command the resources that the government has, and it becomes a war of wills with the money (and hence the odds) stacked against the common citizen.

    There are things in the world that require actual secrecy. It's useful to have the codes to launch the missiles be secret. But that doesn't mean it has to be secret that you have nuclear missiles. In fact, it's the kind of thing one might want to know in order to decide if one likes the government that they elect in a supposedly informed way. How can one be informed on a matter without information?

    Democracy is a grand experiment. It seems an open question as to whether it works. But weirdly, though Bush and his cohorts speak about bringing Democracy to the world, they don't seem to believe in it. I'd think their position a lot more coherent and believable if they said "We're the party of 'Democracy has failed.'" They could be about political self-determination rather than democracy and they wouldn't sound like hypocrites. They could then say "You, the American people, decided democratically that "you can't handle the truth."". But I think they worry people might not be able to handle that truth.

    And hiding one truth soon begets hiding another, until soon it seems like it should be S.O.P., where we just don't let the people have access to any facts, not even political facts, because they might misinterpret them.

    And that's like a cancer. Because every fact you withhold becomes political by virtue of withholding it. So it feeds itself.

    The whole reason science uses something called "peer review" and not just "review" is to distinguish it from other kind of "review". Like, say, "government review". Blurring the two is to give take meaning from the word "peer". Which sounds quite a peery-loss endeavor to me.

    --

    Kent M Pitman
    Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

  16. Now that is really annoying. by Pinkfud · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The USGS is one of very few federal agencies that is actually useful to the people. Their research is valuable to all of us, and it should not be tampered with. I regularly check their seismic network web pages and read the Oat Mountain drum recorder. Why does the administration think it's bad for people to see this stuff?

    --
    The world is my oyster. That's why it's always in a stew.
    1. Re:Now that is really annoying. by Hits_B · · Score: 2, Informative

      I just finished a project with the U.S.G.S. It was on a potentially environmentally sensitive topic relating to mineral resources in areas with threatened and endangered species. At no time during the internal review process were we encouraged to change anything or alter our findings. Thankfully this report came out before this "directive" was handed down. I wish the U.S.G.S. the best of luck trying to implement this. I'm sure the guys at Menlo Park aren't very happy with this.

  17. It may be.... by wasted · · Score: 2, Informative
    Riiight, I'm sure the giant government conspiracy to hide global warming is the main reason that this is being set up. Nice spin there, poster.


    I'm sure you can come up with an equally valid reason to have USGS information screened for "politically-sensitive" reasons?

    Translation: either they want to be alerted in advance of stuff they can take credit for, or they want to tweak press releases of embarassing info. It's a classic CYA move.


    It may be that the government doesn't want to be caught unaware when the media gets a hold of a report with newsworthy or politically sensitive information. Other parts of the government already have similar practices in place.
    1. Re:It may be.... by pete6677 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are certainly correct about that. Which is why no federal agency will ever release a report that even hints at the dangers of marijuana being previously overstated. If such evidence were ever discovered it would be promptly destroyed in order to keep from undermining the highly lucrative drug war. This kind of information control for political purposes is nothing new and has either officially or unofficially been part of pretty much every large bureaucratic organization, as the organization must sustain itself in as large of a form as possible.

    2. Re:It may be.... by j35ter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sad to see that all of the west's criticism towards the Soviet Union, Iraq, North Korea, etc. is hypocritical considering this form of censorship.
      At least in the SSSR you had some kind of social justice...

      --
      Delta-Mike November Bravo Tango
    3. Re:It may be.... by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US is showing you amateurs how to do censorship correctly.

      First you subvert the population, then you censor. None of this "revolution by force", "censorship by edict", oh no. The correct way to do it is get the population on board with a completely bogus set of threats and rationalizations they think are their own -- "terrorism", "homeland" security, "for the children" -- then the population's own representatives willingly subvert the country's founding documents and the people like it.

      Everywhere I look, I see sheep.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    4. Re:It may be.... by macs4all · · Score: 5, Informative
      Which is why no federal agency will ever release a report that even hints at the dangers of marijuana being previously overstated. If such evidence were ever discovered it would be promptly destroyed in order to keep from undermining the highly lucrative drug war.

      Actually, you're wrong (sort of).

      My mom, Ethel McIntosh, worked as the Executive Assistant to Chairman Raymond P. Shafer on the 1972 National Commission on Marihuana[sic] and Drug Abuse (sometimes called the "Shafer Commission").

      Their report, Marihuana: A Signal of Misunderstanding, which was QUITE well researched, concluded that MARIJUANA SHOULD BE DECRIMINALIZED.

      Without going into all the fascinating details about how Nixon wouldn't let them present the Report to him in the Oval Office (as is the norm for these types of Commissions), but rather made them go to some little hotel on the other side of town to "present" it to an AIDE (thus GUARANTEEING zero Press coverage!), suffice it to say that this report p.o.'ed President Nixon SO badly that he BURIED the report. Which is why you could make your statement with a clear, but ill-informed, conscience.

      BTW, I do agree that this report WAS buried for no good reason, and that the 'War On Drugs', just like every other 'War on [x]', is little more than an excuse for Gummint to encroach further and further upon our liberty as Amurikans.

      Although I have not personally read this book (but I will now), apparently, the rejection and burial of the "Shafer Commission" report has been very well researched and documented in this book, Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics of Failure, by Dan Baum.

  18. I am outraged! by /dev/trash · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The people VOTED for CHANGE. And dammit they deserve a change for course.

  19. You can't handle the truth!! by NineNine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The agency's director, Mark Myers, and its communications office also must be told -- prior to any submission for publication -- "of findings or data that may be especially newsworthy, have an impact on government policy, or contradict previous public understanding to ensure that proper officials are notified and that communication strategies are developed.''

    Yeah. They have to be sure that the public isn't unneccessarily exposed to things like "facts". What kind of "communication strategies" need to be developed to communicate a new finding? What's wrong with just reporting the science? I guess that some facts have too much "truthiness" behind them:

    In 2002, the USGS was forced to reverse course after warning that oil and gas drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge would harm the Porcupine caribou herd. One week later a new report followed, this time saying the caribou would not be affected.

    Damn facts... always getting in the way of MONEY.

    1. Re:You can't handle the truth!! by Surlyboi · · Score: 2, Informative

      I didn't realize that "reporting the science" involved calling news conferences with CNN, CBS, et al. I guess scientific findings aren't useful without sound bites, drama, and pundits. Wow, how could the American public possibly make informed decisions without media frenzy? Then obviously, you seem to have missed out on how our society now functions. In the absence of true transparency, what you call "drama" is the best alternative. And most of the "media frenzy" you seem to be worried about is reserved for missing white girls and celebrities adopting brown kids in the third world.

      Anyone that requires a broad media-driven audience for their scientific findings is not a scientist. Period. They might be a drama queen, but that's a separate discussion. See my above response about drama

      Additionally, why should the policy makers have to be surprised by media hounding prompted unelected and unconfirmed employees of the federal government? Because the policy makers are not qualified scientifically to make some of the decisions they make and those "unelected and uncofirmed" employees are. They are "confirmed" by their advanced degrees. They don't need to be elected. Political policy should be dictated by facts and study and the good of the nation and its future generations, not by what's going to make a policy maker look good to his or her constituency.

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
  20. Bush is not the first to do it by Marcos+Eliziario · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Some years ago, President Lula, from Brasil, got a little upset with some data published by the IBGE (Brazilian Institute of Statistics and Geographics). The published data was relative to poverty reduction and kind of contradicted what government was saying. After that, it was officially ordered that the IBGE should submit every publication to the presidency, 48 hours before public delivery.
    Here in Brasil we have a joke about Bush and Lula that goes along the line that both of them don't know English (well, Lula also is not very good with portuguese, our official language). It seems to me, that being authoritarian is another common trace between the presidents of the US and Brasil.

    --
    Your ad could be here!
    1. Re:Bush is not the first to do it by budgenator · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dad Gumit, If I was president I'd want to see the things I wouldn't understand before the public who wouldn't understand sees it too! Shouldn't the boss have the right of first confusion?

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    2. Re:Bush is not the first to do it by tubs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It happens everywhere. Where I used to live, someone wrote into the local paper complaining about the local council throwing furniture in skips, that would eventually be put in landfill sites.

      The councils responce to this wasn't to look at how furniture could be recycled, but to buy covers for the skips so people couldn't see what was in them.

      --

      try to make ends meet, you're a slave to money, then you die

  21. Fascism by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The rule of the state, in importance ranked above the people that make up society.

    Scientific facts don't stop being scientific facts, just because the administration demonstrates the political need to ignore/bend/distort and supress such facts. Thus, the scientific governmental organization founded for the good of society is overruled by the good of the current administration of the state. That is a fascist method of operation.

    My dream is that both republicans and democrats will condemn these attempts. My sense of reality says that will never happen.

    --
    It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
    Be yourself no matter what they say
  22. What the USGS has to say about this: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    For what it's worth:

    "Recent news reports suggesting the Bush administration is trying to muzzle scientists at the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) by placing new controls on approval and release of research plans and products are off base and misinformed about the intent of the changes being formalized at the agency. Speaking as the senior biologist at the USGS, I am deeply concerned that longstanding legitimate scientific peer review processes that have been the basis of scientific practices at the USGS and other scientific agencies and organizations have been mischaracterized as inappropriate political controls on research. Peer review is the bedrock of processes in any credible science organization that ensures scientific conclusions or findings are robust, independent and objective.

    The USGS has had such processes in place for many years. As with any science enterprise, policies are periodically reviewed and updated to keep pace with changes in the organization. Our recently revised policy is an effort to do just that and has been developed by scientists and science managers (not political appointees) in an effort to coordinate existing review processes.

    Research supervisors in the review chain are simply charged with ensuring all USGS information products have addressed peer comments and are in compliance with USGS procedures with regard to the review and release of scientific information. Furthermore, the notion that senior leadership in an organization should not be alerted to significant findings that will directly impact policy development and decision-making is disturbing. Under current policy this information is transferred to policy makers as it is released to the public.

    Characterizing these reviews as an attempt by the Bush administration to control and censor scientific findings is inaccurate, is a disservice to those scientists who developed those processes in the spirit of continually improving our commitment to excellent science and undermines the bedrock of the peer review process as an arbiter of the credibility of individual science products and facilitator of science progress and discussion.
    "

  23. For what you ask? by MarkusQ · · Score: 4, Insightful
    What charges? Your rant didn't mention what "high crimes and misdemeanors" he's committed to justify impeachment.

    Geeze, it's so hard to choose. For starters, how about picking on a few of his more egregious violations of the law:

    • Title 50 United States Code, Section 1805, the FISA law, for authorizing the unconstitutional wiretaps.
    • Title 18 United States Code, Section 113C, the Federal Torture Act, for authorizing the extraordinary rendition program
    • Title 18 United States Code, Section 371, conspiracy to defraud the United States Congress, for lying about Iraq

    And those of you who've been paying attention will realize that we're just scratching the surface here. These are only a few of the more obvious crimes for which there is publicly available evidence, despite complete lack of congressional oversight for the last six years.

    If the Dems have any balls at all we should be swimming in viable charges by this time next year.

    --MarkusQ

    1. Re:For what you ask? by MarkusQ · · Score: 2, Informative
      Title 18 United States Code, Section 371, conspiracy to defraud the United States Congress, for lying about Iraq
      I'm not so sure that one's a morally acceptable reason to impeach. After all, do you really believe that Congress wasn't in on it? They knew Iraq wasn't a threat to us, but went along with Bush's war because it was politically expedient.

      That objection held more water before we learned that the WH selectively presented intelligence, cherry picked and edited things to support their position, and then had the nerve to say, over and over, that "congress saw the same intelligence we did" when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. Add to that their vicious attacks on any and all critics (many of whom later turned out to be correct) and their extensive system of planting news stories that later turned out to be incorrect, I'd say yeah, it's a morally acceptable reason to impeach. The only reason it was "politically expedient" as you say was that they had done such a overreaching job of lying to everyone that would listen.

      If anything, this is the best reason to impeach.

      --MarkusQ

    2. Re:For what you ask? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Informative

      Republicans gained control of Congress in 1994, the high-water mark of their "revolution's" seat count. They steadily declined in the 1996 and 1998 elections (impeaching Clinton wasn't a campaign issue for Republicans, at least not in public). They immediately impeached Clinton after the 1998 elections, a special session that took advantage of their larger 1997-8 seat count (before the new, smaller majority took office in January). They lost 2 seats (of their 230, <1%) in the 435 elections (<0.5%) in 2000, a statistically insignificant loss, and less than they'd lost since their peak. And they elected Bush, who shouldn't have had a chance.

      So at worst, impeachment does no harm to the partisan majority pursuing it. Even when it's a blatant witch hunt on BS charges. At best (for that party), it chokes a president for years, destroying his "legacy", especially electing a preferred successor, even on BS charges.

      At best for the country, on real charges, it stops a criminal president. Even if the Senate doesn't have the 67 votes to convict and remove, because of partisan priorities of politics over justice. The impeached president's "political capital" (the influence with which most politics is transacted) is bankrupted. And the country can see some of the costs of high crimes. Which can also form the basis for civil and criminal charges, once the president leaves office. And of course deters future presidents from the same kind of unacceptable behavior.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  24. Re:Riiight by budgenator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While I find the idea of political interference with scientific processes reprehensible, the fact remains that the USGS is an organ of the USG, United States Government, and what you can or can't say is limited just like it would for any other employer. The general public and media doesn't understand that honest and reputable scientists can interperate a given data set in different and opposing ways and it seems that when that happens it's a repudiation of the very basis of science. People want the government to have THE answer, the government looks to science to give it THE answer, but the reality is there is no THE answer, there is only an optimum solution bases on our limited knowlege.

    It might be nice to know beforehand so you can call your wife and tell her your going to be late for dinner because somebody at USG just published something and the press is going crazy over it!

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  25. I'm surprised so many people defend the USGS... by slew · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I guess people would rather just bushbash than take a critical look at the USGS in specific...

    In case people don't remember, the USGS was the same agency that in 1998-2000 (under the clinton administration oversight) was accused of falsifying many research documents in support of the proposed nuclear waste processing facility in Yucca Mountain. I believe some of their scientists that were involved with this research falsification are under federal investigation for this today.

    I'm not saying all of their scientists are bad apples (they do some good research there), but the agency as a whole untainted as unbiased scientific researchers (as they know who butters their bread) and all the stuff that comes out of the door there should be taken with a grain of salt.

    In response to this and other problems, in 2004 (under the bush2 administration oversite), the USGS started a procedure of external peer review for their papers. This new "alert" of course goes beyond external peer review, so isn't all that great news, but I think the USGS has a long way to go to clean up their act before they cry idea censorship.

    Just my 2-cents worth...

    1. Re:I'm surprised so many people defend the USGS... by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >was accused of falsifying many research documents in support of the proposed nuclear waste processing facility in Yucca Mountain.

      Which was almost certainly political interference with science, which is exactly what people are opposing here and now.

    2. Re:I'm surprised so many people defend the USGS... by misanthrope101 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      the USGS was the same agency that in 1998-2000 (under the clinton administration oversight) was accused of falsifying many research documents
      So your argument is... what, exactly? Are you saying that science wasn't subordinated to politics? Are you saying that it happened, but it's okay since it happened under Clinton too? Are you saying that it's happening, but the people complaining about it are only complaining because of who the President is right now? You accuse people of "bushbashing" but you are the one making it political. This has happened time and time again--every time a real, significant problem is brought up, people like you come out of the woodwork crying bias and pandering, muddying the waters and casting aspersions on everyone's character, while pointedly failing to address the actual subject.

      We torture people? Ah, it must be election season, or you wouldn't bring that up. Saddam had no WMD? Ah, political pandering again from the liberals. Bush's policies make terrorism worse? Ah, more partisanship. Someone in the administration outed a CIA agent for political reasons? Ah, the liberals are playing politics again. We were lied to about the threat posed by Iraq to justify an invasion, and now we're mired in an open-ended, pointless war? My, the liberals hate Bush, don't they? That's all we freaking hear from the right wing. They never address anything--just accuse the speaker of partisanship. A senator is found to be a pedophile and would-be sexual predator? Oh, you're politicking again.

      Occasionally I get lucky and someone says this crap to my face, so I get to say "but is what I'm saying factually incorrect?" If you make people stay on the subject rather than going off on a tangent about whether or not an unbiased, completely objective person exists anywhere on the planet, things get a bit more interesting. Usually I just get resentful silence because they don't want to actually answer the question, but at least the smug "I'm not going to openly disagree with you, but what matters here is that you hate the president, so let's talk about that" crap gets stifled for a few seconds.

    3. Re:I'm surprised so many people defend the USGS... by slew · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My argument exactly is that the USGS seems to have it's share of biased research work product and hardly needs people to complain about it being "meddeled" with (from either party).

      There is strong suspicion that it is common that congressional members (under "suggestions" from people lobbying congress) direct research in government labs in order to provide fodder for their political arguments by convincing scientist of compatible political pursuation to initiate specific directly research with an agenda which then gets published under a US Govt. banner. Realizing that until recently these publication could barely qualify as journals and weren't even subject to indpendent external peer review you might see how this could be a problem.

      Someone needs to continue try and clean up the USGS work product to filter out the political crap. Perhaps this is a case of bush can't do it (politically) since he's dirty already, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a worthy goal? You seem to think it's unacheivable anyhow, so why try, is that your argument? Once the research is published it's too late, but perhaps bush is going too far by wanting advanced notice, but sadly I doubt there is going to be any actual intelligent discussion about this issue.

      For example, I'm sure that Clinton and Gore would have been interested in getting some advanced notice of the Yucca Mountain research before it got published in the USGS report and lapped up by the media contrary to the clinton-gore stated public policy. If I remember correclty, it all surfaced during the run-up to the 2K election and even bush2 denounced the biased YM research when it came out. Perhaps this is just something we have to live with (can't get the corruption out of this part of the civil service), but I wouldn't call it crap...

      In answer to your other question, it doesn't matter if you hate the president or not (I don't care). I think it's actually the bush bashers that distract from this problem and hence my post that expresses surprize that people are coming to defense of this USGS as a proxy for "scientist free speech being impared", just as an opportunistic way to bush bash.

      I guess I can't even denigrate the bushbasher when they seem to be jumping on the wrong issue. I suppose bushbashers are the "untouchables" on slashdot these days... Sigh... I guess I shouldn't mention that I use "vi" and "bsd"... ;^)

  26. Re:Riiight by chgros · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Are you seriously comparing the government to a company?
    You work for the company. It owes you your salary, but not much more.
    The government is supposed to represent you. It is, by definition, public. It is accountable to you. It shouldn't keep (too many...) secrets.

  27. chocolate by falconwolf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wish they would start with the chocolate. Considering the size of the average american waist, rationing chocolate would be an improvement, probably save billions in health-care costs.

    Ah but dark chocolate is good for the heart. It also contains antioxidants which may help fight cancer. you've gotta love chocolate.

    Falcon
  28. The dilemma of government research by cyclone96 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've done research in academia and industry, and I currently work for the US government.

    Having works reviewed by my agency (NASA) is always interesting. In academia, there is usually very little interference from the parent university (one of the basic tenets of tenure). The researchers opinion is never considered that of the university proper.

    It doesn't work that way in government, the distinction between the researcher and the parent agency doesn't exist (although if it did we would probably get better research). A paper put out by a government lab is sometimes construed as government policy, with the ensuing political or legal fallout.

    The last thing any senior administrator wants to deal with is a call from legislative affairs complaining about the conclusion of what was seemingly an obscure paper, or the lawyers from a company that was badmouthed in an environmental paper. I don't think these rules are active efforts to stifle information, it's simply folks trying to keep their agencies below the political radar (or by extension, department managers trying to keep their name from being attached to some problem that is showing up at agency headquarters). It's a shame really, but it's the way the world works.

    Government employees are in an odd gray area - if you worked for a private company, you most definitely would not have a "right" to expressing your opinion in a company paper - they are paying you, and would fire you. Government employees have a bit more freedom, and their management struggles to define what opinions do and do not belong in government works.

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    Worst...sig...ever!
  29. Re:Riiight by residieu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The USGS is an organ of the United States government. You're right that it should be answerable to its employer. Its employer is the people of the United States, not Mr Bush.

  30. Re:Riiight by hey! · · Score: 5, Informative

    Attention moderators -- being woefully misguided is not flamebait.

    Try this one on for size. Your division is supposed to make 20 million dollars selling new improved widgets. You've been telling the main office that they've way underestimated the development and production costs all along. Now the financials this quarter make it undeniable: if they don't pull the plug immediately, the company will lose $20m not make it.

    So... the main office lays down a policy that any data going into the SEC filings has be cleansed of information that indicates that their product plans are, financially speaking, a load of bullshit.

    Is the business run to guarantee senior management their bonuses, or to make money for the stockholders?

    We the people are the United States are the stockolder of US Government Inc. It's fine if management wants to make policy conclusions about the findings, that's their job. But they can't cook the books.

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    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  31. I told you so.... by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even before George W took the oath of office, I knew this was the type of man to do this sort of thing.

    I'd seen too many guys who lucked into a position way over their head not to recognize the type. When confronted with unpleasant truths, ignore them. Operate in an alternative world where everything is wonderful, and any subordinates thinking unhappy thoughts get wished out under the cornfield.

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    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  32. Scientific method? by Potor · · Score: 5, Funny
    Indeed.
    Top officials at the Interior Department's scientific arm say the rules only standardize what scientists must do to ensure the quality of their work and give a heads-up to the agency's public relations staff.
    I am very curious to see how Bush and co. can improve on the scientific method.
  33. Re:-1 Flamebait? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    > I guess the ultra-liberal-"Bush-is-stoopid"-tree-huggers have mod points, today.

    Ultra-liberal or not, mod points or not, hugging trees or not... has nothing to do with Bush being stoopid.

  34. why bother? by AlgorithMan · · Score: 2, Funny

    big deal...

    Hitler did it
    Mussolini did it
    Stalin did it
    Hussein did it
    "The Party" did it (1984 by George Orwell)
    Communist Party of China DOES it
    Gates WILL DO it (TCG fka TCPA)

    sooooo since this is such a common action - why bother?

    --
    The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
  35. Waxman is about to take on Bush in this area by Animats · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Bush administration's secrecy mania is about to run into Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA). He's the ranking minority member of the House Government Reform Committee. On January 20th, he will become chairman. And he will then have subpoena power over the Executive Branch.

    This is the congressman who published "Bush Administration's 237 Misleading Statements on Iraq". He is totally fed up with the lying and secrecy. Expect to see many officials of the Bush administration being questioned by Waxman's commiteee on TV. Under penalty of perjury.

    Remember when all the cigarette company CEOs had to testify under oath about what they knew and when they knew it about addiction and hazards? That was Waxman.

    And climate is on his agenda. He's very interested in things like the Clean Air Act; he represents Los Angeles.

  36. The one article doesnt cover it all. by segfault_0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you goto google news and read through more than just the one article it seems that although the White House was the originator for the changes - I havent seen anything saying that the White House has to be informed about anything - just the leadership of the USGS itself (who in turn report higher, but thats nothing new). I often have to show my presentations and outputs to my boss and dont automatically cry censorship - as do most of the people on this site I suspect. I understand that people are reacting to the concept layed out in the Slashdot lead and original article but sometimes you need to read a little further to have a reasonably well thought out opinion. I think the posts to the effect that Bush should be impeached, whether he deserves it or not, are way - way offtopic.

    --

    I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
  37. Re:Dams Bridges Power Lines by zenhkim · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Dude, c'mon -- you're making this too easy. Does this guy's post sound paranoid to you?

    http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=212172&cid =17270890

    > Censoring science for political reasons is nothing short of censorship. I'd love to see a constitutional amendment that explicitly dictates that all science with data can not be censored by any act of government. It apparently isn't covered in the first amendment, since it's not universally considered expression. Why not? Would anyone in sound mind vote for a politician who disagrees with an amendment protecting truth?
    > ...
    > I respect any scientist who continues to fight for science, research and truth. IMHO those are core values of America. We wouldn't be the country we were if it wasn't for science, research and truth. From Ben Franklyn, Thomas Edison, and Ely Whitney among many, our country was shaped by science. If it wasn't for these guys, we would have never hit the information age, or even the industrial age.

    Or do these American scientists appear to be insane whackjobs to you?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6178213. stm

    > US SCIENTISTS REJECT INTERFERENCE
    > By Jonathan Amos
    > Science reporter, BBC News, San Francisco
    >
    > There have been claims of political interference on climate issues
    Some 10,000 US researchers have signed a statement protesting about political interference in the scientific process.
    >
    > The statement, which includes the backing of 52 Nobel Laureates, demands a restoration of scientific integrity in government policy.
    >
    > According to the American Union of Concerned Scientists, data is being misrepresented for political reasons.
    > ...
    > Campaigners say that in recent years the White House has been able to censor the work of agencies like the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and Drug Administration because a Republican congress has been loath to stand up for scientific integrity.

    BTW, toddhisattva, a conspiracy theory ceases to be just a theory once the conspiracy is exposed and documented -- and the Dubya Bush administration has been the most secretive, conspiratorial presidency in US history:

    http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=212172&cid =17271132

    > The Bush administration's secrecy mania is about to run into Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA). He's the ranking minority member of the House Government Reform Committee. On January 20th, he will become chairman. And he will then have subpoena power over the Executive Branch.
    >
    > This is the congressman who published "Bush Administration's 237 Misleading Statements on Iraq". He is totally fed up with the lying and secrecy. Expect to see many officials of the Bush administration being questioned by Waxman's commiteee on TV. Under penalty of perjury.
    >
    > Remember when all the cigarette company CEOs had to testify under oath about what they knew and when they knew it about addiction and hazards? That was Waxman.

    They say that Dubya's problem is that he's literally living in his own little world. Apparently so are you.

    --
    "All hands, BRACE FOR IMPACT!"
  38. Civics 101 by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are woefully uninformed (despite your absolutely ridiculous "informative" moderation), not to mention completely wrong. I say this because:

    Iraq was not attcked illegally

    Bush and crew lied about the reasons for attacking Iraq. Iraq had no WMD. Iraq was not threatening us or our interests. Iraq was not threatening an ally or an ally's interests, someone with whom we had treaty obligations to defend. In fact, subsequent to the first gulf war, Iraq was not threatening anyone or their interests. Not even tiny little Kuwait. All of Iraq's pitiful military actions were confined to within its own borders. Therefore, in fact, there was no reason for the USA to attack them. But it isn't this simple, is it? No. Because in order to generate popular support for his attack on Iraq, Bush and his crew lied to the public. They claimed that aluminum tubes were being imported to centrifuge nuclear materials. Yet no such thing was occurring; the only tubes being imported were not of the type that could be used in that application, which was a known fact at the time. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld specifically claimed they knew where the WMD were. And were they there? No. The administration repeatedly and specifically claimed that Iraq's administration had direct and unequivocal ties to Al-Quida. And has that been found to be so? No.

    Now, let me remind you of the federal anti-conspiracy statute, which renders it a felony "to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose."

    This is the basis for both calling these acts a foundation for impeachment, and for calling the war itself illegal. It does not, unfortunately, address the hundreds of billions of dollars spent in pursuit of this illegitimate war; nor the loss of Iraqi lives; nor the loss of US soldier's lives, and the lives of those soldiers from other countries who ill-advisedly entered into combat with the US in this criminal action.

    Telecomm law? WTF? The Dems were pissed they didn't think of it first, because no law was violated.

    Yes, telecomm law. That's the specific set of laws that says that no one, including the government, may tap a US citizen's phone call, no matter who they are talking to, without a warrant. but Bush and crew did that. There is a another set of laws that sets up the FISA court, which says that taps may be made if permission is gotten from FISA within a certain number of hours after the tap; but Bush and crew did not do that. This leaves absolutely no door open to make tapping a US citizen's phone call legal. The bottom line is that yes indeed, Bush and his crew broke the law in this regard.

    Gangsterism . . . Halliburton? You mean the Hurricane machine?

    I mean the company that gets all the major contracts in Iraq. All of them.

    Every war we have ever fought has suspended Habeas Corpus. What else is new?

    In order to suspend any part of the constitution, you have to modify the constitution. Otherwise it will be (and always has been) found to be illegal. Bush has not modified the constitution; ergo, he violates it. The constitution, which you so blithely dismiss (as does Bush) is the single operating legal document that authorizes our government. It is the framework that describes not only how it functions, but what the specific limits of its operations is. If the government operates outside the constitution, it is completely illegitimate in its actions. That is why in the president's oath of office, this phrase has primacy: "I promise to preserve, defend and uphold the Constitution."

    Holding the US citizen who was making plans to detonate a radioactive bomb in a major metro area? You mean t

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Civics 101 by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Iraq had no WMD.
      We did not know one way or the other until we had troops on the ground.

      Exactly my point. The administration assured us they did know; they lied.

      Iraq regularly fired upon US aircraft.

      Let me actually finish that sentence for you: "Iraq regularly fired upon US aircraft flying in their airspace." And let me also point out that if Iraqi aircraft were flying in our airspace, we'd be firing on them, as well. Not just the government, but every mother's son with a rifle, a rocket kit, or a potato gun. We'd be focusing lasers on their cockpits, running into them with our civilian aircraft, using our jumbo jets to crack them up using wake turbulence. We'd foul up the GPS data, unlink the old school LF navigation systems, and we'd shoot at them from kites, mountaintops, balloons and church steeples. And we'd be right to do it — every one of us. And why, again, is it that you are so offended that they shot at our aircraft flying in their airspace?

      Iraq was involved in assassination attempts of US citizens, a former president for example.

      You mean like when Bush tried to kill Saddam in the very first bombing of the war? When we sneakily dropped all manner of high powered weapons on a major city in Iraq using aircraft that were invisible to Iraqi defenses? Without having been provoked? Without truth in representing the supposed threat? Is it OK for the Iraqis to bomb us, since we do have WMDs, and have used them to far greater effect than Saddam and crew ever did? Where does our "right" to bomb the Iraqis come from here? Where does our "right" to attempt to assassinate Saddam come from? Do we assign to Iraq an equivalent right to attempt to assassinate our president, then? Where does our right to invade Iraq come from? Where does our "right" to stay, when they clearly want us to leave, come from?

      If Iraq or some other actor does something terrible, does that give us the "right" to do something terrible? Or should we stand our ground on higher principles? If we don't, why do we have them at all, eh? We had the choice of many, many actions post assassination attempt and post 9/11. The fact that we chose an entirely unjustified war from all those options is nothing to be proud of. And in fact, I am not.

      Iraq was routinely supporting suicide bombings in Israel.

      Ah. So, Israel cannot respond to this alleged threat? We have to bomb the country back into the stone age because Israel is what, unwilling to cross borders? I don't think you can make the case. Israel has shown more than a token willingness to deal directly and militarily with any threats to them. Just ask the Lebanese, the Palestinians, or that motley group of fools who took the hostages in Entebbe. I fail to see how, despite any treaty obligations we have with Israel, this called us into action in any legitimate manner. If Israel had wanted Saddam's hindquarters, they would have had them, I believe. We never needed to act in the first place, post the first gulf war.

      Being anti-war is great and all

      You mistake me. I am not anti-war. War is a problem solving tool that at times, is quite appropriate. It is just that this "war" is not. This war is stupid, was based entirely on lies, has generated entirely useless and troublesome results, is extremely costly, and shows no particular benefits. We are not going to "get democracy" in Iraq, we are not going to control the oil, we are not going to save any of the various sects of Islamists, we are not going to get any of the lost lives back, we are not going to stop losing lives there — there is literally no point in being there. At all. I'm not anti-war. I'm anti-stupid, which makes me pretty much anti-Bush by definition.

      Personally, I don't believe the Ir

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.