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Inhabited Island Vanishes Forever Underwater
PhreakOfTime writes "For the first time the rising ocean levels have washed away an inhabited island. Lohachara island was at one point home to some 10,000 people. It, along with several other spits of land near the Indian mainland, is now permanently underwater. From the article: ' As the seas continue to swell, they will swallow whole island nations, from the Maldives to the Marshall Islands, inundate vast areas of countries from Bangladesh to Egypt, and submerge parts of scores of coastal cities. Eight years ago ... the first uninhabited islands - in the Pacific atoll nation of Kiribati - vanished beneath the waves. The people of low-lying islands in Vanuatu, also in the Pacific, have been evacuated as a precaution, but the land still juts above the sea. The disappearance of Lohachara, once home to 10,000 people, is unprecedented.'"
I live not far from the Sydney Opera House, and though I haven't been measuring things there, I haven't seen any sign of it getting closer to the water. Certainly not a whole island worth of closer. Likewise I would expect somewhere like Venice to be in the news if its gradual descent into the ocean were suddenly to accelerate, threatening all that tourism. Ditto the pacific islands; or anywhere people have jetties or wharves that would need rebuilding.
Is it possible that sea levels could change in the Indian ocean while remaining constant in other parts of the globe? That's what seems odd here. Or is this likely to be local, run-of-the-mill geology at work, and people seeing what they (justifiably, IMHO) expect to see?
At Thermopylae the 300 held off an army of 100,000 to 1,000,000 (depending on who you believe) men for two days in hand to hand combat. That was after a larger army had held them off for a week before withdrawing from the field.
At the time Thermopylae was a pass bordered by cliffs on one side and the sea on the other so narrow that one man with a spear could hold it.
Now it is wide enough that a tank battalion could traverse it side by side.
Things are not always as simple as they might appear and the world is not, nor has it ever been a static place. Islands have both dissapeared and appeared throughout mankind's term on this earth.
Works of man may certainly nudge things here and there in particular directions, but the idea that the world as it is is "normal" and must, nevermind can, be held in its current form is arrogance born of ignorance.
The only thing constant is change.
KFG
Also, this probably isn't unprecedented in human history. For example, the ocean levels rose substantially after the end of the last ice age. It's quite likely that human inhabited islands became submerged during that time. We also have land that is in the process of sinking, eg, along the southern part of the north sea or southern Louisianna to name a couple of locations that experience substantial sinking of land and have been populated for a fair bit of time.
George Bush didn't cause the submerging of this island. His policies may cause other islands to be submerged in 30 to 50 years, but this island sank due to carryover from the Industrial Revolution and the massive industrialization of the developed world in the last half century.
Blaming GWB in this conversation is petty. You can oppose his policies without blaming him for events that he didn't cause. But blaming him for everything you see is just intellectual bankruptcy.
There sure as hell isn't any reason to panic over this piece of drek reporting.
You get a clue at the intent of the piece when, in the first paragraph, you find out that the islands are part of a river delta. Well, you kind of find out. But nowhere does the piece just come out and say that river deltas are always changing shape, i.e. some parts wash away and other parts build up. Nope, right away there's a diatribelet about global warning right where there ought to be an explanation about how river delta islands come and go.
I've got an apocalyptic prediction to make:
If the story about these islands doesn't kick off a global panic there'll be another gas-inflated story, probably out of the Guardian, before January is done. Oh the humanity!
Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
Or just till the next ice age? Seriously, it would reason that if the sea level lowers, it might become exposed again, right?
The other day there was an article about the dolphins in China disappearing. Sure we clamour, "OMG, it's terrible. If we don't stop soon, we might be screwed. Aw, but what can we do, it's so hard. So uncertain, so...hey, can I have one of those bagels? Oh, yum." The other day I was talking with a group of 10 people about glacial melting and the rising sea level. They all nodded seriously and said, "Sure, but that is a theory and even then it would only happen in 50 years." I assure you, if I bring up this article, people will look just as serious, and then hop in their Hummer and drive to the gas station so they can go hiking on what used to be ski slopes.
Until about a million people are absolutely, beyond any doubt--beyond even the ability of the most resolutely blind dumbass moron I know's ability to doubt--are going to relocate or drown in their home because of rising sea level...and it has to be a first world country because otherwise, reminder: Nobody Really Gives a Fuck...until that point, I do not really want to hear about it.
Why should we all have to suffer with our feelings of the awful terrible things that will likely happen (but hopefully just after we die happily in our old age so our children can deal with it instead), when elected or otherwise empowered people will never act fast enough to ever avert any true crisis. I say, bring on the disasters. One after another. Because getting some practice at actually dealing with problems just might start building a habit of acting and instill some fear in a real problem, rather than the lurking possibility of a boogeyman or an Osama or little microbes that people will only act on enough to deprive others of their liberties, but never act on enough to actually address the issue since the issue isn't there yet. Isn't it ironic how proactive we are at doing terrible things when faced with a real problem, and how inactive we are at doing the good things? Well, it's not ironic at all. Good things are invariably more work and most people are inherently lazy, which is why 5% of the world has 90% of the wealth, and they wealthy are too busy driving around in hummers.
Wake me up when we're all drowning.
this island sank due to carryover from the Industrial Revolution and the massive industrialization of the developed world in the last half century.
Either that, or the same ordinary process of erosion that sunk the former islands (now seamounts) of the northern part of the Hawaiian chain.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Good, sensible questions from someone starting from a base knowledge of nil. May I politely suggest Wikipedia as a good source for some introductory background reading?
Everything I needed to know about life, I learnt from Blake's Seven
> George Bush didn't cause the submerging of this island.
Yes, and fifty years from now the US Administration of the day is going to throw their hands in the air and claim "It was'nt US! ".
Nice try. We blame you *now* for Kyoto.
your point about "no normaility" is good, but I hope you aren't trying to push a "both sides of the argument" point of view. just because there are always two sides doesn't mean they are equal.
What I am doing is pointing out that the idea that there are "two sides of the argument" is an idiocy. There is no "argument" in the first place.
the fact is people have historically settled very near water and if that water moves real people get screwed.
I currently live on a flood plain. Before moving here I lived on an estuarial flood plain. I'm now simply a bit further inland on a tributary to that estuary. I have twice this year watched the waters rise toward my house. They never reached my house, but my small collection of crops was untterly destroyed. I have had to help neighbors leave their homes by boat.
I am not ignorant of the devestation that flooding can cause. The farm my mother grew up on was ultimately permantly destroyed by the one-two punch of the Great Hurricane of '38 (her entire town went eight feet underwater. My great-grandmother lost her store) and the hurricane of '44.
If you could excavate the bottom of Long Island sound you might very well find evidence of human habitation. 12,000 years ago it was a fertile valley; now it is a branch of the Atlantic Ocean. Nothing people did either caused nor could have prevented this.
What "other side of the argument" is there in this? Shit happened. Shit always happens. Get used to it. It doesn't stop the shit from happening, but hysteria is not a very effective coping mechanism.
KFG
Islands in that area are sinking and would be doing so regardless if mankind ever discovered fire. It's amazing for a bunch of tech geeks who are willing to believe anything that sounds like a disaster, if the other political party can be blamed for it. Go back watching your pr0n, it's more realistic then your AGW religion.
Dammy
No he didn't cause the island to sink, he did contribute though. Look at his environmental record in texas for example.
The important point is that we should stop listening to GW and his ilk when it comes to this subject. They have been wrong repeatedly and they have no credibility left.
evil is as evil does
In a word: No. Large swaths of land become uninhabitable all the time. Earth is not a holiday resort where everything is controlled and nothing changes. Volcanic activity makes and breaks entire civilizations, deserts grow, landmasses get covered by huge ice crusts, lakes turn into swamps or dry out. Earth constantly changes. Pointing to one instance of change doesn't prove anything. It shouldn't even raise eyebrows. Many of the picture postcard islands are and have always been on the edge of inhabitability. I am not contesting the general notion of global warming, but if you want to be taken seriously, you can't ignore that man-made changes to climate may be fast compared to natural cycles, but in relation to our life-span, they're still rather slow. They're also not obvious, because the system is very complex and not at all a simple chain of causality (greenhouse gas, higher temperature, sea level rises). And the effects are still mostly masked by a huge amount of noise. As drastic as the change may be, nature is still much more chaotic and stronger than man.
I'm Dutch and us Dutch have something with water. Did you know that one of our small islands (located north north/east of our country) has also been swallowed by the sea at the end of the last century? No? Guess thats because they didn't invent global warming at that time. At least not in the extends they have now. For us it was a very simple process, one which has been part of our 'folklore' for millenia now: "The sea gives and the sea takes.". Every year we have parts of the country which flood over ("uiterwaarden"). When the sea finally retreats it sometimes leaves enough soil to build on so such a terrain is then "added" to the main land (easily put ofcourse). However that doesn't mean that this is the end of it. On the contrary; mostly these new terrains were used for agraculture. And why? Simple; because it has also happened numerous of times that the sea rose again and took away the newly given land. No global warming, no environmental problems, just the work of Mother Nature.
And on that subject. I could be mistaken here but I always learned at school that ice, in contrary to other materials, expanded when it was frozen. Thats why you get your broken waterpipes if they freeze up. When it melts then the water shrinks again. So how does the melting of the polar caps make the sea rise when the whole mass is actually shrinking?
Almost. But I wasn't getting that message from Bush.
The line he's been pushing is, to my knowledge:
In short, Bush is playing a very political game with the entire issue. He's not being scientific, he's being political. And the wonderful thing about politics is you don't have to actually do anything until there is overwhelming and indisputable proof to that effect or you can convince everyone that there is.
America didn't change course in policy on WWII until we were personally bombed. Overwhelming proof that Japan was bad. Invasion of Iraq is a testament to the amazing ability of the propaganda to do it's work and the even more impressive apathy we now take on the whole issue. Goebels would be proud of how well this has been run from the Whitehouse.
This global warming crap is being treated in about the same manner. Scientists are banned from public communications without proper screening by the Whitehouse staff. Proposals of any changes are mired in layers of something that makes it impossible to succeed.
Nothing will get done until people individually start making an issue of it in their lives. Buy diesel engines and then buy only bio-diesel. It's not cost effective to do so but you have to make that choice of what's important. Same thing with electric cars. And so on for electrical appliances, computers, energy efficiency.
If you have a house built, push the developer into a higher efficiency than anything he's seen before or find someone who can. It's going to cost more, but it's also going to drive the money into a new area of the industry. By moving where the money goes, you will move the attentions of the american industry and american politics.
First off, sea level increases, assuming the sea level IS rising, is happening in mm per year, not meters. Unless these inhabitants are extremely small, a few extra mm of water is not covering a whole island.
Secondly, it's not unprecedented. In fact, as other posters have pointed out, islands have come and gone for all of recorded history.
Thirdly, the island appears to actually have dissapeared 22 years ago. It's part of a freaking river delta, guys.
I'm not smart enough to make a call on Global Warming. Maybe you guys are. But I do know enough to see that for all of recorded history, there have been large sections of the population that believe the world is ending. In EVERY instance, this is due to some sins of mankind. Repent! Say the believers. Repent now and perhaps we will all be spared! If this same slant was in a technology article, most of you would be calling FUD. Well I call it on this. This article is total crap.
That's not saying GW is false, that's saying that when trying to extrapolate long-term trends from short term inputs in a chaotic system a little humility is in order. Articles like this one make the whole GW movement look like a bunch of knee-jerk idiots. The science deserves better treatment than this. The public deserves a higher level of discussion than stories that can be tossed out after five minutes of inspection. FUD is no way to make a technology buy, or have a serious discussion about science.
He can be blamed for being arrogant about the effects of global climate change. The fact that he didn't cause this particular island to submerge is a pointless distinction to make, because he'll be partly to blame for future island losses anyway. This is not blaming GWB for *everything*. It's a valid and keen point the grandparent raises.
The image of the submerged island is here:
0 128,88.112411&spn=0.033209,0.080338&t=h&om=1
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=21.90
BTW: In Holland, we simply elevate the dikes. I live several meters below sea level.
http://www.stolk.org/tlctc
GWB is part of the problem -- and the US, to the extent that he is the President and you follow him as sheep, allowing the government to even censor the truth coming from scientists.
And you are, too, every time you come up with such retarded excuses like that ("he' not guilty of what happens now, just of what will happen later"). How dumb do you think you can be? How dumb do you think we are to believe such idiotic argument?
He could have done lots to improve Earth's situtation, if nothing more by setting an example for China to follow. Now China will pollute even more than the US, and you are gonna resort to double standards again. The usual phrase which always comes up is: "they can't do it because they will pollute _our_ air, but if someone can do it, better be the US, huh?".
It's not just a lame President. It's an entire nation of lame people. Congrats. We humans are so dumb we are 90% identical and cannot even agree to clean our rooms in our common building.
i hate to be cynical, but this is nothing but an orchestrated effort to lay the groundwork for a monetary claim against "The Rich Industrialized West" a.k.a., the U.S.
t ion=readEditorials&itemid=125&language=1
First off, the article doesn't even have the date correct for when the island disappeared..22 years ago (that would be 1988). So let's dispense with accuracy right there..
Second, the river delta in question is FAMOUS for flooding and killing/displacing hundreds of thousands...geez it's the drainage basin for the freakin Himalayan mountain range...
Bangladesh is in bottom quintile in per capita GDP.
and finally, lets not forget this article..
'Bangladesh floods: rich nations 'must share the blame'
http://www.scidev.net/Editorials/index.cfm?fuseac
pretty much lays it out...they're after money..
'In future, therefore, when affected countries demand assistance from the rich countries of the world in helping address climate-related disasters such as floods, it will not be for a request for charity but for compensation, appealing to their moral responsibility, if not their legal liability, to make good the damage and destruction for which their activities have, directly or indirectly, been partially responsible.'
this is all sponsored and written under the auspices of that famously neutral organization the U.N.
this is a giant effort at laying the groundwork for demanding monetary compensation, not aid, for flooding that has been going on FOREVER in that country. These islands didn't "sink", they where washed away 22 years ago from flooding, that has been going on for millenia....
in the enviromental arena...it's never about the enviroment, it's always about money, and getting someone who has it, to fork it over to someone else, who wants it.
Signing Kyoto would do NOTHING to correct the environmental imbalances that already exist. Signing Kyoto would do virtually NOTHING to correct any impending environmental disasters. It is too little too late, and sacrificing the U.S. economy on a symbolic gesture is arguably even less responsible than the decisions that have brought us to the point we are at now.
Politicians are like diapers - they should be changed frequently and for the same reasons.
My sweet brother :) (Norrbagge her!)
The north of USA is colder and gets more snow than Sweden, Norway or Finland's northern most areas, but they are decades behind Noway, Sweden and Finland when it comes to building standards. What in those countries would have been considered illegal, is the norm here.
If you lived here, you would probably have agreed with me that USA is a 1st world economy with a 3rd world society.
If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
Well, how environmentally aware of him, especially as *he* pays *his* energy bill. Are you thinking that he should be lauded as an environmentalist for making a shrewd investment?
I would ask why he needs a 6500 ft^2 McMansion. Surely he could make do with less and surely a 6500 ft^2 house has a larger negative environmental impact than a 1500 ft^2 one. That's like Al Gore, lecturing us about how we're all using too much while he and Tipper live in two different houses, one 10,000 ft^2 in Nashville and the other 4000 ft^2 in Arlington and ride around in SUVs. I'll give Al and your dad their "friends of the environment" props when they "walk the walk."
Except that in this case, it has little to nothing to do with global warming. If there had been no human interaction, there would be a good chance that this island would have vanished. This is how river delta islands work. They are not formed of bedrock; they are sand. Sand washes away, and then your island is gone. These islands are disappearing due to *erosion*.
Don't be such a follower. Do a little research before shooting your mouth off. When the "alternative explanation" is the real one, that makes the explanation from the mass media false. Think of how often the media gets anything having to do with science or technology wrong... then apply it to these types of articles. It should not surprise you when the alarmist pieces are wrong as well.
If you read a few other articles on the topic, you will find out that they are predicted these island to disappear by 2020, and that they are not all evacuated, since there is no need. You would also find out that the sea level in that area is rising by about 3mm a year, from various causes. You would *also* find out that some of those people were evacuated more than 20 years ago.
And as we all know, Hawaii is the only place in the universe where erosion occurs.
The important point is that we should stop listening to GW and his ilk when it comes to this subject.
Actually, that's exactly wrong. We should be listening to (and watching) them, analyzing their words and actions, and we writing about what's wrong. If we ignore them, they won't go away; they'll continue their ongoing efforts to make maximum short-term profit while slowly degrading our world. The only way we can successfully fight such things is through knowledge and understanding, not by ignorance.
Remember the old adage "Know your enemy". And, we might add, publicise your enemy's behavior.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
You want to watch out; hysteria is the rule of the day when it comes to global warming.
The facts don't support that global warming causes "sinking of islands." If islands sink, they do so for (relatively) local geological causes. The amount that the seas have risen in response to the (highly doubtful) global warming trend people so badly want to imagine is a matter of centimeters (currently running about 10 per century), and I submit to you all that if an island was mere centimeters from being overcome by the sea, then calling it "inhabitable" was stretching it a bit in any case. Yes, yes, the sea can rise a centimeter and a wave can get over something it previously could not, but really, storms produces wave action you can hardly imagine if you've not been out in the ocean on an isolated island.
The bottom line? Even if global warming is absolutely on target, it had nothing whatsoever with this island succumbing to the sea.
Before you have a cow about current sea level rise and what effects that might have, perhaps you should peruse this. Pay particular attention to the graph; note how unusual our current relative stability is over time, but look at the bottom line; sea level rise simply isn't enough to demonize for eating islands. Some land features will succumb to the sea in the normal course of events, and that is all we have here.
It never ceases to amaze me how readily people will accept a pointed finger if "global warming" is inserted anywhere in the accusation.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Why do I say gradual? Because much of the resistance to this idea currently is from people who just bought a suburban house and an SUV based on an assumption about the price of gasoline over the next 10 years. The general public will be much more likely to vote for a "5 cents per year" gasoline tax increase than a "50 cent" increase.
Since we will not get instant gratification from our selfless sacrifice to clean up our CO2 emissions, it isn't worth doing.
That is the most dangerous "stinkin' thinkin'" going on in the US today. Great Gramma and Great Grandpa are to blame for the CO2 problem we have today, so technically it is not my problem. If I'm to blame for the CO2 problem that my great grandkids have to live with, then at least I'll be dead and won't have to listen to them complain.
At the very least humans have muddied the environmental waters to the point that we cannot pinpoint exactly what we have caused and what is natural cyclic environmental behaviour. And because of this we have no way of knowing how much we are accelerating any natural cyclical events beyond what is natural. And yet, any mention of sacrifice or change on our part is still dealt with viciously and remorselessly.
Unfortunately, those who believe that change and sacrifice are for those other countries will never realize that they are giving up a perfect opportunity to create multiple industries that can make the oil and coal industries look like child's play. Their panicky death grip on the status quo will never allow them to see the opportunities that the US has missed already, or what we will soon be completely missing out on. Those who have been fighting change the most viciously are the same ones who, in ten years, will be shrieking "Why are we licensing wind and solar technology from Europe? Why can't our auto manufacturers sell to Asia or Europe? Why is our economy slowly weakening while Asia and Europe are getting stronger?"
It's a matter of economics. A majority of the rest of the world gets it, but so far we have not and that does not bode well for America's future.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
Perhaps it is arrogant and ignorant of me to believe, that we can change it back.
Probably it is. Humans have both an ability to adapt to changing environmental conditions, and a capacity for modifying said environment shared by no other creature on Earth. But I have the feeling that after the past century or so of changing things we'd best get set for a round of adaptation. We're going to have to be pretty damn flexible to survive the next century, whether or not anything is done about global warming now, whether or not global warming is even a problem.
In any event, "the environment" and "global warming" have become such bastions of international politics, power-mongering and economic chicanery that I don't trust anything I hear on either subject if it comes out of the mainstream media or from anywhere near the White House. Or any foreign power's government either, for that matter. There's nothing I can do, personally, about global warming and even if I could, odds are that anything it is suggested I do will be for someone else's benefit rather than any serious attempt at redress. Nothing substantive can or will ever be done about global warming because it has become a tool of influence, to be used to control or decimate national economies. The powerful no longer care about the future, they only care about the now. The rest of us are going to have to follow them over any cliff they lead us to, whether we want to or not.
People on all sides of the issue claim to have "all the facts" and that "the bulk of scientific evidence supports our conclusions". Since I don't have the requisite scientific background to examine the raw data and judge this for myself, I choose to presume that everyone is either mistaken or outright lying to me. There are multiple points of view (there is global warming, there isn't global warming, there is global warming but it's not serious, there is global warming but it's not serious yet, there is global warming and we're all going to die tomorrow, etc. etc. etc. ad-bloody-nauseam.) and they can't all be true.
Sometimes you have no choice but to believe that those in power know what they're doing even when you know, in your heart, that they don't give a damn. Consequently I'm not going to worry about it. I have plenty of problems as it is.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
What you said will be true if the so called "sea level" is a perfect flat surface. However, the Earth, as a water ball is quite bumpy and is shaped by gravitational force, tidal force, structure of the seabed, and ocean current. The few centimeter overall difference can easily be magnified locally by the factors above.
I'm amazed that this got modded "insightful". Calling the gloabal warming trend "highly doubtful" is inflamatory to say the least. There is no serious doubt that the planet is warming. My bogometer pegs every time I listen to one of the GW deniers, and the damn thing nearly broke when I read the link. As a climber, I have seen glaciers all over North America and Europe as they vanish. Colorado scientists tell me that mountan glaciers all over the world are contributing more then the melting of Greenland and Antarctic ice. To the tune of several feet of ocean rise by the end of the century. We are in for a rough ride, folks.
I agree with parent about one thing: In the long run we are at the mercy of natural forces. Earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes and volcanos are familiar disasters which occur in a timescale we easily comprehend. There will be another ice age, and the oceans will drop 120 meters again (as they did at the peak of the last glacial episode 20,000 years ago), but history is incapable of recording such long-term changes. The sea levels will plummet and rise again just as fast, mocking our current period of stability. However, we strongly disagree on this: If there is a likelyhook that human activity is precipitating a change in sea levels that will affect human life across the globe sooner than it would happen naturally, then I believe we owe it to ourselves to honestly evaluate the causes and effects, then take action as appropriate even in the face of (or because of) uncertainty.
Hmmm how interesting. I was on Kiribati three months ago, it was above water then. Perhaps the author is referring to other low lying islands in the vicinity that are prone to being swamped by high tides and big waves. What I find interesting is the idea that somehow global warming is a republican caused problem or that this issue could have been prevented if only the republicans had jumped on board with the meaningless Kyoto accord or that this issue (global warming) is something that only started happening in the last 8 years. I am not a fan of the current administration. Nor am I a republican. But come on, they (republicans) didn't invent terrorism OR global warming. The real debate is to what extent humanity can even affect the temperature of the planet. There seems to be evidence that we were (are) coming out of a global period of cooling (the tail end of the last mini ice age) and that this period of warming is just part of the natural cycle of the planet. Is it possible that our life forms are just coming to the end of the hospitable period of the planet's history? The period that made it possible for such a feeble (physically) life form such as humans to exist in the first place? It is a bit like a gambler whose winning streak has come to an end, desperately clamoring to find out what he/she can do to "bring back" their luck. I guess my perspective is a bit different because I view the planet not as a gift from god but as a naturally occurring phenomenon, during which I am fortunate to be part of the surviving life form that has been able to achieve both self-awareness AND self-loathing. In this context the earth warming is not so shocking. Let's face it, the only reason people care about global warming is the effect it will have on them. The rest of the species on the planet have had their environment adversely effected by humans for some time. So this is no shock to them. Who knows, perhaps with less people on the planet the fish will make a comeback and so will the whales, lions, great apes, and gazillions of other species that have been hunted to near extinction or perhaps all life will cease to exist and the planet will just be another hot rock spinning in space. That is until the sun blows up and vaporizes it. Either way, humans are but a small itch (if that) on the butt of the universe. Merry Christmas
that is the land subsiding. To the people concerned it makes no difference, but confusing plate techtonics with global warming is simply alarmist.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
I agree, "global warming" has become no more than a public relations buz word.. For use when you want to garner public attention for any natural or unnatural change in an ecosystem. I'm sure nobody will make the argument that the blackened air created by cars, factories and other industrial complexes is helpful to the environment around us. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that global warming is responsible for everything negative that happens. It seems from this discussion, I am not the only one who feels this way. From what I learned in Geology, the river delta explanation seems plausible.
What everybody needs to understand is that Earth - as an environmental system - is always in a state of change. People don't like to hear that because people like to believe that they are in control of their surroundings. In reality, the environment and the ecosystems around us will move to adapt to any new stimuli introduced. This is what we (the public) lack an understanding of. If we continue to abuse the Earth by polluting the air as we are now, the ice caps might melt quite a bit. Okay, fine... but that is a short term, direct reaction. How will the world look in 100 years? 500 years?
No computer model is going to accurately predict that. Too many unknown variables in the equation. It might not be as bad as we are led to believe. Just something to keep in mind.... I personally support environmental reform, but not because of global warming threats.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.
Fortunately, E85 is such a non-solution that it won't relieve the pressure if oil price (or tax on it) goes up. It's not about the cost of producing it (from corn kernel), it's about the biological capacity of the entire midwest agricultural land (SciAm cited a mere 7% of the US oil consumption being replaceable by US-produced E85).
Maybe next time we will invade a tropical country with large farming potential (Brazil?)...
Let's see here, it is the USians that is destroying the Earth and it always have been the USians involved. The Chinese aren't doing it, neither are any other country. That is why Mr. Bush never signed the treaty. The only reason why you made that comment is your US centric view of the world.
Get your free pr0n atSoft-tits.com
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Maybe I missed it in a posting (it sure isn't in TFA), but HOW MUCH was the sea supposed to have risen to supposedly 'wipe out' this island (sandbar?)?
I've gone through a few dozen search results from google already and cannot seem to find a map of exactly where the island is/was, no aerial before/after images, and no definite numbers regarding how much the sea rose to erode it. But, yet, everyone agrees that it was a real place and that Man is evil for letting this happen.
The story would be a lot easier to swallow if _any_ of the "news" outlets had any substantive, verifiable information.
"It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)