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Google Working To Make 'iPod/iTunes for Books'

nettamere writes to mention an initiative by Google to take the library online. The end result of the Google Book Search, the company hopes to see a future where they are not merely referring customers to Amazon, but instead offering them the ability to download books directly. According to the Times Online, Google hopes to 'do for books what the iPod did for music.' From the article: "One of Google's partners, Evan Schnittman of Oxford University Press, said he foresaw a number of categories becoming popular downloads: 'Do you really want to go on holiday carrying four novels and a guide book?' The book initiative would be part of Google's Book Search service and its partnership with publishers, which will make books searchable online with publishers' approval. At present, only a sample of each book is available online."

128 comments

  1. Something more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Today's tech just makes for a not very pleasing alternative to a paper-based book. And who want a book that withholds its content because the battery has gone dead? I am glad Google is working to digitize books that have not yet been digitized. And more text online makes a more showcases for Google ads. But I do not see digital book tech being there any time soon. The technology of paper-based books is just too difficult to exceed while pleasing the regular reader.

    1. Re:Something more by Viper+Daimao · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I dunno, maybe if they display it with electronic paper, which doesn't use energy except to change the screen. Could even attach some photovoltaic cells and get power from your reading lamp.

      --
      "In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
    2. Re:Something more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they can make it energy efficient enough to use the sort of photovoltaic cells (and have the same sort to uptime) as pocket calculators, then I can see it being much closer to working. But the screen needs to be great (since it is taking the place of a book, which can have a crisp sheet of perfectly white paper as its page base). And the text exceptional. How do they make a super-high resolution screen (to match or exceed the 300+ x 300+ dpi of books) while maintaining minimal energy requirements and having a perfect white crispness to each page? And how do you turn the page? That is, how do make an interface that does not get in the way? Plus, it has to be cheap. Like a book.

    3. Re:Something more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well it doesn't have to be cheap because you are only buying it once while you will be (realistically) downloading text or pdf files from the internets.

    4. Re:Something more by dsoltesz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm a tried-and-true eBook fan. I was happily using a Rocket eBook for six or seven years for almost all of my pleasure reading - 14+ hours of battery life usually got me through at least a week long vacation... no trying to read in the dark using a headlamp, no bothering hubby with a bedside lamp, and I could carry a large number of books in about the weight and volume of a good sized paperback. The downside was being restricted to certain formats and not being able to read books that come out in various secure formats. I originally picked the eBook up to use to read online textbooks for web-based courses - reading off a desktop screen is an incredible pain, and printing the material was simply not feasible.

      About a month ago, I took delivery of a Fujitsu Lifebook 1610, in part to replace my eBook (and a few other devices). 2.5 pounds, 7 hours of battery life, and I can read any format for which I can get reader software. I find it far more comfortable to read large amounts of online material (books, websites, or otherwise) than trying to read off my regular computer screen. Of course, I also use it for taking notes (bye-bye pile of ratty steno pads), work and play on-the-road (adios to the 7 pound laptop), watching movies (okay, the iPod's still in my pocket), using customized maps with a GPS receiver, etc. I plan to switch every magazine subscription I can to electronic delivery. With a couple power adapters, I can keep it fairly well charged up where ever I go.

      I still buy the occasional hardcopy book, but only when I plan to put the book on my shelf (such as one by a favorite author or a collectible), the book isn't available in eBook format, or (for now) it's a vital technical reference... for some reason, many of the latter are still much easier to use in paper form, with their attendant sticky notes marking useful sections. However, a really well done electronic reference (usually APIs) are actually more usable than the hardcopy. With wireless, a wealth of info is at my fingertips where ever I am, and I don't have to run back to the office for a book.

    5. Re:Something more by secolactico · · Score: 1

      Well it doesn't have to be cheap because you are only buying it once while you will be (realistically) downloading text or pdf files from the internets.

      Would you take it with you to the bathroom? Would you mind reading in bed knowing that you might fall asleep on top of it? If it's not going to be cheap, it's got to be able to take a certain amount of abuse.

      --
      No sig
    6. Re:Something more by Viper+Daimao · · Score: 1
      But the screen needs to be great (since it is taking the place of a book, which can have a crisp sheet of perfectly white paper as its page base). And the text exceptional. How do they make a super-high resolution screen (to match or exceed the 300+ x 300+ dpi of books) while maintaining minimal energy requirements and having a perfect white crispness to each page?
      Well like I suggested, use Electronic Paper.
      --
      "In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
    7. Re:Something more by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      >Would you take it with you to the bathroom?
      --
      Ahmm...no! What goes in the bathroom, stays in the bathroom. Ever heard of hygiene?

    8. Re:Something more by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      My Palm (LifeDrive) has had some pretty spectacular falls including on to concrete.
      Its never gotten any damage from one of its falls.

      Tip: When you buy one make sure you get the leather case. :)

    9. Re:Something more by rpbird · · Score: 1

      That would be nice, except they've been talking about electronic paper and other similar schemes for at least ten years and nothing's come of it. I can buy used paperbacks online for a fraction of their original cost. You wanna bet on how illegal they'll make selling old ebooks? Hell, it's probably already illegal.

  2. Misleading: TFA not about new HW by viking80 · · Score: 1

    Somewhat misleading: TFA is not about any new hardware, just that Google is scanning in books to make them avialable online. Great, but hardly anything new here.

    --
    don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    1. Re:Misleading: TFA not about new HW by countach · · Score: 1

      Given the rumours coming out of Cupertino, I suspect Apple is making iTunes to be the "iTunes for books". Maybe they'll tell all when a widescreen ipod comes out.

    2. Re:Misleading: TFA not about new HW by emilper · · Score: 1

      Google is already working on the e-book reader: it's the OLPC project.

  3. Guide books? by ChePibe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'Do you really want to go on holiday carrying four novels and a guide book?'

    Yes, I'd much rather have a guide book in my hand that screams "I'm not from here" than a digital version that could run out of batteries leaving me stranded and lost or, worse yet, the look of "I'm not from here" (generally obvious for tourists, anyways) and focusing all of my attention on an expensive looking toy, which is likely to draw in more problems.

    I'll take a good old guide book any day, thanks. The novels, however, we can talk about.

    1. Re:Guide books? by garcia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would prefer neither. I don't like guide books and I don't really like listening to audiobooks. I just got an audiobook as a present and I really can't stand it at all. For some reason I cannot get into the book while it's playing in the car (or anywhere for that matter) -- too many distractions. There is something about reading that really draws me into the novel that I can't seem to replicate with an audiobook.

      As far as guidebooks go, I'm better doing some prior research and using Google Maps to waypoint places in my GPS to autoroute to when we go somewhere else. There is nothing better than doing it that way.

    2. Re:Guide books? by Basehart · · Score: 1

      If you're worried about people mugging you for a couple hundred dollars worth of electronic equipment I'd suggest leaving that camera back at the hotel as well.

      And as for running out of batteries, the same thing could happen to your cellphone but I'm betting you take one of those along with you.

      The thought of being able to take along a guide book or two, a couple of novels in case I get bored, and even a couple of comics in digital form sounds like a pretty good idea. There again, I think I'll just wait until the iPhone comes out and have everything all in one (making sure to charge it up before I leave the hotel of course).

    3. Re:Guide books? by Vexo · · Score: 1
      There again, I think I'll just wait until the iPhone comes out and have everything all in one.
      And this is exactly the kind of cool stuff that Apple is precluding by not allowing third-party development.
    4. Re:Guide books? by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      They do allow 3rd party development, much as you can buy 3rd party games for your 5G iPod. It just won't be an open platform, so only regulated 3rd party apps will be allowed (Probably through an iTunes-like interface for purchasing them).

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    5. Re:Guide books? by MORB · · Score: 3, Funny

      Tourists worry too much. This is why you print "don't panic" in large, friendly letters on digital guide books.

  4. How would one install the books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    As long as I can install the books using Linux software, I'd support it. Amazon has got an unhealthy DRM model that makes me not want to buy any ebook from them.

    1. Re:How would one install the books? by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 1

      I realise that French is supposed to be the language of love, but come on - why no English version? And plain text? I would think part of the allure of the Kamasutra is the pictures.

      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    2. Re:How would one install the books? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is an ASCII illustrated one in the works!

    3. Re:How would one install the books? by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      Kama Sutra: Come for the pictures, stay for the words...

      - RG>

      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
  5. I call bullshit! by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the summary:

    Do you really want to go on holiday carrying four novels and a guide book

    I'd rather have a book and not have to worry about internet connectivity, worrying about dropping a laptop or other reader into the bathtub or a pool or a sidewalk, battery life, rain, leaving it behind at a restaurant, getting it stolen, and "sorry, you can't take that in here".

    Books "just work" - and if you lose it, you only have the cost of a paperback.

    And no, I don't want to read a book on my cellphone, either, even though I watch 3gp ripped episodes of The Simpsons on it when I have to kill some time.

    1. Re:I call bullshit! by Bootle · · Score: 1

      Books "just work" - and if you lose it, you only have the cost of a paperback. Guess you've never mis-placed your $160 copy of Ashcroft and Mermin, have you?
    2. Re:I call bullshit! by mochan_s · · Score: 3

      I lost my Munkres and it cost me $100 to replace it.

      Books don't just work. Books don't work where there is no light - e.g. inside a car.

      You can store the contents of the entire book in flash memory and not have to worry about internet connectivity. Water related problems also occur with paper books. You can buy AA or AAA batteries almost anywhere. If worst comes to worst, there's always the hand crank. Plus, these new readers don't need power to maintain a page on the display - just to change them or other functions.

      The only downside I see is that it seems it's more straining on the eye.

    3. Re:I call bullshit! by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Books "just work" - and if you lose it, you only have the cost of a paperback.
      Guess you've never mis-placed your $160 copy of Ashcroft and Mermin, have you?
      Hey, that's still a LOT cheaper than my cellphone, or pretty much any laptop. Not to mention that when I replace either of the electronic devices, I STILL have to replace the data.
    4. Re:I call bullshit! by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Books don't just work. Books don't work where there is no light
      Neither do any other book-replacing devices, escept audio books. You need a source of photons to see, for *any* device, whether a book or a screen.

    5. Re:I call bullshit! by mochan_s · · Score: 1
      Neither do any other book-replacing devices, escept audio books. You need a source of photons to see, for *any* device, whether a book or a screen.

      That's being pedantic!

      There's a backlight that's usually built into screens that can be turned on when there's insufficient light (in case you didn't know).

      And, of course, it is situated such that the LCD screen is between the light and the eye so that that selective photon propagation through the LCD screen can give a visual representation of the data to be represented as a data page!

    6. Re:I call bullshit! by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      A book and a flashlight are still cheaper than a laptop.

      AND the book can still be read when the batteries are dead ... or when you don't have a source of power ... or around a fireplace ...

    7. Re:I call bullshit! by mochan_s · · Score: 1
      A book and a flashlight are still cheaper than a laptop.

      Actually, my semester's textbooks total was more than a cost of a low level laptop. Plus, a gadget to read books would cost less than a laptop.

      AND the book can still be read when the batteries are dead ... or when you don't have a source of power ... or around a fireplace ...

      But not in the backseat of a car at night.

      It can always have a hand crank for power generation when the batteries die.

    8. Re:I call bullshit! by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Actually, my semester's textbooks total was more than a cost of a low level laptop. Plus, a gadget to read books would cost less than a laptop.

      ... and you would still have had to pay for your eTextBooks (the content). And, unlike your eTextBooks, you can sell your textbooks at the end of the semester (no DRM). In many cases, books are better. Way better.

  6. hardware is the problem by Jett · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Until there is decent hardware to read books on, projects like this aren't going anywhere beyond niche markets.

    I love books, I own a few thousand of them and buy new ones every few months. I don't own a single ebook and I doubt I ever will because I've yet to see an ebook reader that was superior to an actual book. The only benefit to ebook readers over physical books are portability and storage capacity. The problem with this is that neither of these are big problems with physical books - if I'm going on a long trip it's not a big deal to bring even a few full sized hardbacks along to read. I don't need to have a library of books on my person at any time, the most books I've ever needed to bring with me anywhere at one time (since high school) was 4, and that was to read on a flight to the other side of the planet. I don't often fly to the other side of the planet.

    1. Re:hardware is the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A while ago, the exact same statement could have been said re: mp3s and CDs:

      Until there is decent hardware to listen to music on, projects like this aren't going anywhere beyond niche markets.

      I love CDs, I own a few thousand of them and buy new ones every few months. I don't own a single mp3 and I doubt I ever will because I've yet to see an mp3 player that was superior to an actual CD. The only benefit to mp3 players over physical CDs are portability and storage capacity. The problem with this is that neither of these are big problems with CDs - if I'm going on a long trip it's not a big deal to bring even a few full sized jewel cases along to read. I don't need to have a library of CDs on my person at any time, the most CDs I've ever needed to bring with me anywhere at one time (since high school) was 4, and that was to listen to on a flight to the other side of the planet. I don't often fly to the other side of the planet.

      Cue "no wireless, less space than a nomad, lame" joke

    2. Re:hardware is the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit.

      Don't you hate making a joke and missing a word?

      even a few full sized jewel cases along to read. I don't

      Damn.

    3. Re:hardware is the problem by Jett · · Score: 1

      Bad comparison I think. It makes more logical sense to bring a library of music with you since chances are good you will use a significant percentage of it. If you bring either library of ebooks with you on a long trip or a library of mp3s, which provides the greater benefit? Clearly it's the mp3s, even if you are a voracious reader you're not going to read more than a few books. You may listen to several hundred songs though, and you may want access to a variety of musicians and genres because music listening is often much more mood based than book reading.

      I actually remember traveling before the existence of mp3 players, I used to bring a lot of CDs with me, it was a huge hassle - an mp3 player was a logical replacement. An ebook reader does not make a lot of sense for my book needs.

    4. Re:hardware is the problem by RattFink · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I really have to disagree with you there and I am sure I am not the only one. Personally the only books I prefer in print is either reference books or those that use a lot of pictures. Any novels that I buy I first look for the ebook version. There are a few reasons why:

      1. I don't need to disturb my wife's sleep with a lamp.
      2. I can adjust the type size to suit me.
      3. I can read a lot faster on the devices.
      4. I predominately read during the evening and the backlight makes things far easier to read and a lot more comfortable since I am not constantly adjusting to book for the best lighting as I change pages.

      --
      "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - Marshall McLuhan
    5. Re:hardware is the problem by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I don't own a single ebook and I doubt I ever will because I've yet to see an ebook reader that was superior to an actual book.
      How much are you willing to spend on an e-book reader?

      A friend of mine got an Irex iLiad recently and it is awesome. The "electronic ink" is really slick. The text is crisp, the page transitions are smooth & the battery life is pretty good.

      There are cheaper eBook readers... but with 1st gen technologies, you're getting what you pay for.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    6. Re:hardware is the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      anon because i modded before reading your post.

      other than the ones you list, i also like having the following advantages

      i have formed a habit of reading till i fall asleep since i got my p910i two years ago

      - i don't have to get up or even turn to turn off the light/reading lamp
      - the book remembers where i stopped reading. i can carry on reading whenever i get 2,5,10 minutes (good for the climactic parts when reading fiction)
      - i can even set it to scroll automatically so i dont have to do anything to keep reading, but i will have to turn it off manuall or lose the other two benefits
      - i can carry as many books as i like and they will always take up the same amount of space/weigh the same
      - i can annotate, markup, and do anything i like with the content, without damaging the original 'print'
      - with mobipocket format i am not bound to a single medium for purchased books. i can read it on my phone, my computer, and any other media that mobipocket may support tomorrow

    7. Re:hardware is the problem by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      i use my pdas for reading books, for about 5 years now actually. i like it and i think they are superiour to real books - adjustable font sizes, backlight for reading in darkness, real searching, much better bookmarks and of course the portability and storage capacity you already mentioned which is especially important when going on vacation.

      no way am i going back to dead trees.

      --
      Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.
    8. Re:hardware is the problem by clamum · · Score: 1

      Hahaha... you can't be serious. Comparing CDs and books makes no sense.

    9. Re:hardware is the problem by bismark.a · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Those are good points. Heres more to why e-books are better :-
      1. I can search
      2. I can annotate easily
      3. I can carry more books than in my library, in my pocket!
      4. I can make notes on the book, and yet leave it without a single scribble mark
      5. I can use the new apple iPhone's rubber banding software on the multi touch version of iReader to flip through pages effortlessly, and without all that gooey licking for moist fingers thank you.
      6. I can download all newspapers on a single device, and have all the news related to my set keywords highlighted ready for my attention
      7. I can borrow my friends and colleagues notes without having to deprive them of it for the time I borrow them.
      8. I can get Harry Potter, the minute who ever decides that it is a good time to rake in millions of viewers, and yes, without having to wait in a queue for a whole night or whatever
      9. I can hear from a friend about nanotechnology, and get the treatise by 10 best experts in the field in a few seconds
      10. I, oh yes, I can do this anywhere, at anytime and on one single device.

      The possibilities are endless, embrace the future.
    10. Re:hardware is the problem by SilverJets · · Score: 2, Insightful

      According to that web site the iLiad is $810.00 US. For the reader.

      Do you know how many novels you can buy for that much money?

      I like the idea of a e-reader but I am sticking with paperbacks until and e-reader is more cost effective. At that price it looks like it will be quite a while before I buy one.

    11. Re:hardware is the problem by Brad+Eleven · · Score: 1
      Comparing CDs and books makes no sense.


      Not any more, but s/he was making the point that this same argument (s/books/CDs/ s/ebooks/MP3 players/) was being made a few years ago.

      Think Iraq & Viet Nam, e.g., at least the rhetoric matches.

      It holds for me, especially considering how bulky jewel cases seem now, and how much better (and fatter) MP3 players are now.
      --
      "Press to test."
      (click)
      "Release to detonate."
    12. Re:hardware is the problem by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Personally the only books I prefer in print is either reference books or those that use a lot of pictures

      I've never understood that about reference books. At my desk it's less practical to wield a rather large and heavy book, compared to switching to another window. Not to mention that the digital version has faster indexes, in-page linking and search functionality. The only books I buy are paperbacks - for the reason that I typically read them on the go, and quite frankly they're not treated very nice (crunched in the bottom of my backpack, for example).

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    13. Re:hardware is the problem by Hyperspite · · Score: 1
      5. I can use the new apple iPhone's rubber banding software on the multi touch version of iReader to flip through pages effortlessly, and without all that gooey licking for moist fingers thank you.
      I never understood why people need moist fingers when they are reading. I never have a problem with turning pages and my fingers are usually pretty dry. Yes, I do understand hydrogen bonding - thank you. Can someone explain this? Is it really that hard to turn a page?
    14. Re:hardware is the problem by Roxton · · Score: 1

      What surprises me is that the Sony Reader has received so little public attention. I tend to keep up with gadgets and have a personal interest in electronic paper tech, but I didn't even hear about that product until very recently.

      That thing is definitely on my wishlist... after the iPhone... and a new laptop... and a DSLR... and a Wii... and an updated video card... and updated ASIC design software... snow tires... Oh, bother.

    15. Re:hardware is the problem by macshit · · Score: 1

      Ebooks obviously have many advantages, but so do physical books. Not only is the latter usually much easier to read no ebook has even come close to the quality (or size for a portable ebook) of the "display" on a good book -- but also I find the ability to use one's physical intuition to relate different pages to be invaluable when doing more than just reading in linear order. [Searching, bookmarks, and other ebook mechanisms are also good, but they're different, and I find them useful at different times.]

      What I often really want is simply to have both! I wish physical books (especially reference/textbooks) would come with an electronic copy of the text in some form that is widely usable (i.e., no stupid proprietary windows-only crap). Then I could use the physical book when convenient but also keep a copy to refer to when I'm not at home or need text searching more than I need good readability.

      Many reference books already come with a CD, so this might even be fairly easy for them, if only they'd think of it...

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    16. Re:hardware is the problem by shmlco · · Score: 1

      My fiction reading speed is on the order of 1200 WPM. As such I can go through a LOT of books when I'm bored. On several occasions I've taken an old iPaq that has about 100 Baen ebooks on it with me on vaction, though a year or so ago I joined Audible and now I have an iPod with about 90+ books there. The pod can be used in more situations, like when I'm working out or standing in line.

      I've been waiting FOREVER, however, for Apple to get on the stick and add ebooks to their multimedia store. I guess the printed word just isn't as sexy as movies...

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    17. Re:hardware is the problem by shmlco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's because it sucks. The text is dim and low-contrast, hard to read except in bright light, and it has the exceedingly annoying habit of flickering the entire screen every time you "turn" a page. Add the proprietary DRM and the limited selection plus the full-boat retail prices of Sony's online store, and you've got the makings of yet another Sony disaster.

      If you've got a list, make sure it stays at the bottom of it.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    18. Re:hardware is the problem by RattFink · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really this one boils down to one thing. Most of my reference books deal with either electronics or software development, both of which typically require extensive use of my computer's screen real estate; put simply a paper reference book allows me to use the book without juggling windows or flipping back and forth. I know that probably isn't the best answer but thats it.

      --
      "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - Marshall McLuhan
    19. Re:hardware is the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      i can annotate, markup, and do anything i like with the content, without damaging the original 'print'
      Just as an aside: you're not getting the original print anyway, so there's really no way for you to damage it, either ;p
    20. Re:hardware is the problem by 3choTh1s · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with you eBooks are great for the reasons you describe. But I have to include reference books in what I would like as an eBook for one reason, Search. There is so many times that I read an API book and I wish to anyone listening that I could just type what I was looking for in the cover of the book and it would just flip to the appropriate page. Now I can. Thank you, who ever was listening.

    21. Re:hardware is the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go to some #bookz channel and you'll make that price in 1-2 years :)

  7. Awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is really good, imagine if the youth would start reading books instead of smoking weed.

    To download this to a tablet PC or a e-ink device would be awesome.

    Also very cool if you have one book, then there is a new revision of it, then you can download the updated book with the new revision.

  8. In answer to your question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, I *do* really want to go on holiday carrying (at least) four novels and a guide book. And I normally accumulate a lot more along the way (it takes a stronger man than me to resist a good book store when overseas). In fact, I have developed a habit of snail mailing them home as I finish reading them.

    Hmmm, did I mention that I like books?

    1. Re:In answer to your question. by Jett · · Score: 1

      Definitely, a lot of the best SF authors these days are either in England or Scotland - their books tend to be available in Europe long before they are in the US. I'm sure this is true for other genres as well. It's always worthwhile to check out book stores when you are overseas.

  9. Well... by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 0, Troll

    As the iridologists told me one day, watching an electronic screen makes your eyes "nervous" to some extent due to the refresh rate of the screen. Even if you don't see the screen refresh, your eyes sense SOME movement, which gives you a limited degree of anxiousness...you want to do something...click on something...type something.

    But when I read an e-book (err PDF...for school usually), I find myself madly clicking around the book or wishing I could walk while reading because the screen just makes me anxious, you know?

    --
    Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
    1. Re:Well... by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      LCDs don't refresh. Neither does e-ink. I think you might want to look elsewhere for the cause of your anxiety. :)

    2. Re:Well... by maxume · · Score: 1

      He should start here(if he is even a little serious): Some Claims Are Just Too Extraordinary. A selection:

      "If a ship landed in my yard and LGMs stepped out, I'd push past their literature and try to find the cable that dropped the saucer on my roses. Lack of a cable or any significant burning to the flowers, I'd then grab a hammer and start knocking about in the ship till I was convinced that nothing said "Intel Inside." Then when I discovered a "Flux Capacitor" type thing I would finally stop and say, "Hey, cool gadget!" Assuming the universal benevolence of the LGMs, I'd yank it out and demand from the nearest "Grey" (they are the tall nice ones), "where the hell did this come from?" Greys don't talk, they communicate via telepathy, so I'd ignore the voice inside my head. Then stepping outside the saucer and sitting in a lawn chair, I'd throw pebbles at the aliens till I was sure they were solid. Then I'd look down at the "Flux Capacitor" and make sure it hadn't morphed into my bird feeder. Finally, with proof in my hand and aliens sitting on my deck (they'd be offered beers, though I've heard that they absorb energy like a plant) I'd grab my cell phone and tell my doctor that I'm having a serious manic episode with full-blown visual hallucinations." -- Peter K. Bertine, on the Extropian mailing list
      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Well... by Elentari · · Score: 1
      I know what you mean.

      Even when I'm just reading posts, I'm fighting the urge to scroll or highlight words because I feel a little on edge, merely staring at the page.

    4. Re:Well... by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 1

      ((I actually have to use a non-LCD monitor quite often as a second monitor for my laptop at a lab at the campus, and at most school-computers, which I frequent between classes instead of trying the schools firewalled and buggy wi-fi.)) But something obviously makes me anxious...probably the amount of clicking and moving I do on a computer normally...or just ADD...heh

      --
      Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
  10. What's on the cover? by adnonsense · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'll buy one of these electronic guide books provided it has the words "do not panic" in large, friendly letters on the cover.

    If not I'll stick to my hard-edged paper travel guides which also come in useful for swatting the local wildlife without ruining the guarantee.

    1. Re:What's on the cover? by Grave · · Score: 1

      My thoughts exactly. It would be exceedingly useful to have a Wikipedia-linked device that is compact and portable, just like the H2G2. And as long as "do not panic" is written across the front, it would sell quite well (even if 90% of the world's population didn't get the joke).

      When we reach the level of cheap/free worldwide wireless internet connectivity (whether it be cellular, satellite or WiFi), a device like this would be extremely useful and practical. We're not there yet, but the basic technologies exist. Sometime in the next few years, we're going to see this sort of device arrive. The savings potential for schools is substantial, as the hardware likely would be relatively cheap within a couple of cycles, and licensing the textbooks would almost certainly be cheaper than buying hundreds of hard copies that get lost, stolen, or beaten up within a year or two.

      The really surprising thing is that while we have music and movies on portable electronic devices, books (the oldest recorded media format) still haven't been digitized in any significant numbers.

  11. Bad article by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ever notice that whenever you read an article in the newspapers about something you know about, it's always riddled with errors? This article made me think of that. In my not so humble opinion, this is just a really, really bad piece of writing. Where do we even start?

    Furthermore, since Google is acquiring copyright material at no cost, it seems to be treating books quite differently from all other media. It is prepared to pay for video and music, but not, apparently, for books. The Google defence is that their Book Search system is covered by the legal concept of "fair dealing".

    I guess he means fair use, not fair dealing. I'm not sure why he thinks Google is paying for music. This is news to me ...

    But the second thing to be said is that I could read whole passages of my books of which I own the copyright. At once a huge intellectual property issue looms.

    The ability to quote or use small parts of a work as fair use has always been there as far as I know. This is a new way to use it, that's all. Is this post a looming intellectual property issue now?

    Jeanneney says that Google is not what it seems. Its search results are biased by commercial and cultural pressures. He has a point. Try this: go to Google Book Search and enter Gustave Flaubert. The first results are full of English translations of Madame Bovary.

    Given that the author points out elsewhere that the American libraries are the first to allow digitization of copyrighted books, I'm not sure why he is surprised by this.

    "It's the readers who will have the final say" ... No, it is the teachers who will have the final say. They will determine whether people will read for information, knowledge or, ultimately, wisdom. If they fail and their pupils read only for information, then we are in deep trouble. For the net doesn't educate and the mind must be primed to deal with its informational deluge. On that priming depends the future of civilisation. How we handle the digitising of the libraries will determine who we are to become.

    I don't even know what to make of this paragraph. The net doesn't educate? Teachers will dictate how we read books in the future? If students only read books for information, we're doomed? It seems like a random collection of ideas that aren't backed up with logical argument, but exists only to give a punchy ending paragraph.

    I admit, I never cared much for The Times, but this sort of writing is below even their standards. It jumps all over the place, gets the facts wrong, generalises too much and is sensationalist in style. Poor show guys.

    1. Re:Bad article by stubear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Fair Dealing is a non-US name for Fair Use, so yes, it is a legitimate term and the author was correct to use it. As for Google's use of the books being Fair Use, this is for the courts to decide. There is nothing clear cut about determining Fair Use. Google is not commenting on, critiquing, or parodying the works, they are simply offering a snippet of the work without adding value to the work (no, exposure to the world at large is not an exemption covered by Fair Use).

    2. Re:Bad article by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ever notice that whenever you read an article in the newspapers about something you know about, it's always riddled with errors?

      Yeah. I therefore assume all articles are of the same quality, especially on subjects I don't know about.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:Bad article by squiggleslash · · Score: 2, Informative
      I guess he means fair use, not fair dealing. I'm not sure why he thinks Google is paying for music. This is news to me ...
      No, he means fair dealing. Fair use is an American concept. It is foreign to Britain. As far as Google paying for music and movies, I'm not really sure what that's a reference to.
      The ability to quote or use small parts of a work as fair use has always been there as far as I know. This is a new way to use it, that's all. Is this post a looming intellectual property issue now?
      Again, no, not in British copyright law. In British copyright law a very small amount of a text can be copied for certain limited purposes. There is no blanket right, "fair use" or otherwise, to quote or use small parts of a work. In the US, there similarly is no blanket right, though the conditions under which you can use an extract from a work are certainly wider, if less well defined.
      Given that the author points out elsewhere that the American libraries are the first to allow digitization of copyrighted books, I'm not sure why he is surprised by this.
      Perhaps he isn't. Perhaps he's making an unrelated point about the consequences of this.
      I don't even know what to make of this paragraph. The net doesn't educate? Teachers will dictate how we read books in the future? If students only read books for information, we're doomed? It seems like a random collection of ideas that aren't backed up with logical argument, but exists only to give a punchy ending paragraph.
      So your final piece of evidence that this British publication doesn't know about the American legal system that it is not writing about is a difference in opinion about the rhetorical ending.

      Ever notice when you read a comment about an article from a culture and jurisdiction you know something about, the comment is always riddled with false assumptions and erroneous nitpicking? This comment made me think of that. In my not so humble opinion, this is just really, really, bad, parochial, writing.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Bad article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Making books more accessible isn't adding value? The ones who should be shaking in their boots are quotation vendors like Bartlesby. With a fully searchable text and the ability to see a quote in its original context, I see a lot of added value. I think Google has a lot of potential to drag a lot of author's works out of the obscurity of booksellers'/libraries' bookshelfs.

    5. Re:Bad article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      go to Google Book Search and enter Gustave Flaubert.

      He should go to Google.fr Recherche du Livre and enter Gustave Flaubert if he wants results en Francais. An English language search returning English language results first seems correct to me. The French search gives you French results for the entire first page. Google.de Buchsuche gives German results for the first five and a mix of German, French and English in the second five. I wonder what google.jp's results look like?
  12. Sony is already doing this by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

    although not very successfully. I like the store, but the selection sucks. I fail to see how google will get more publishers than Sony, but I guess we will have to wait and see.

  13. About time... by Dr.+Zowie · · Score: 1

    I have very much enjoyed the iPod Nano as a book viewer -- the Notes section lets you read Project Gutenberg texts, and the device's form factor is great for always having handy and stealing moments here and there to read. The big problem with the Notes feature is that the text files are limited to 4KB. That makes it a hassle to put the text into the ipod because you have to use split(1) or a similar utility to break it up. That seemed really stupid and shortsighted to me. But, as always, Apple is crazy like a fox -- limiting Notes to 4KB means they can charge more for the book-reading feature later.

    Unfortunately, Apple marketing is getting too good for its own good. They're starting to manipulate markets like Microsoft does, by limiting features that they could easily choose to make available.

  14. When all you have is a hammer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    everything looks like a nail

  15. Imagine them smoking weed and listening to books! by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    MP3 players are already making huge volumes of information available to us. Openculture http://www.oculture.com/weblog/2006/10/free_univer sity_1.html is a site dedicated to making that information available to us. There is currently more information available via electronic media than has ever been available to an individual ever before. I include public libraries in that statement. Reading a book requires a certain amount of attention; you can't drive while you read etc. but listening to a lecture, or a audio book is able to be done while you do other things.

    Sure, video books will be good too, but making this information available is hugely significant. If Google and others can make learning as easy as plugging in your MP3 player, that is very cool for those of us who would like to learn this way.

    Much content is valid as audio only, and while there are those that prefer their reference materials to be on paper (not dependent on batteries), technology is making the possibility of not having power/batteries a much smaller likelihood. Lack of batteries is becoming a lame excuse, so to speak.

    I predict that there will be a trend of teaching with audio/video download files. Imagine if everything you wanted to know about your hobby could be downloaded in a instructional form on audio or video/audio formats? So you want to learn about testing an alternator for a 73 Ford pickup: download the file. You want to learn about the latest in Hollywood gossip; download the file. Why should we be dependent on carrying a book, or sitting in front of a tv, or waiting for the radio station to tell us what we want to hear. Why can't we choose to hear it or view it when we want?

    This type of service and technology will empower a great many people. Think of what home schooling can now do. Think of how this could impact training at work. Think of how this could bring author's content to millions more people!

    Its a good thing, IMO.

  16. The new motto: Those who can, do (no evil)... by jayemcee · · Score: 1

    those who can't, Google. FTA: No, it is the teachers who will have the final say. They will determine whether people will read for information, knowledge or, ultimately, wisdom. If they fail and their pupils read only for information, then we are in deep trouble. Here's hoping the teacher knows how to Google for more than porn :)

  17. Audio books by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    MP3 player.

    --
    Deleted
  18. The 4 novel + 1 guidebook holiday by Rich+Klein · · Score: 2, Funny

    Maybe if I worked at Google I'd have enough vacation time to read 4 novels and use a guidebook to do some sightseeing. :P

    --
    -Rich
  19. sweet! by Urza9814 · · Score: 1

    Just what I've been looking for recently, actually! If they manage to make a decently priced e-book reader to go along with this, it would be perfect.

  20. Who Reads? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The general public is not that big into reading. I can see how the iTunes/iPod model works well for the masses but not reading. I have the sneaking suspicion that while this will not be an outright failure, it will not be a financial success either.

    Keep in mind that Slashdot is not a very good representative sample of the population. Sure, I might purchase a few books just to see if I like the new model but my neighbor will probably continue to invest in John Deer hats and monster-truck shows.

  21. Why I wouldn't buy. by lattyware · · Score: 2, Insightful

    a) I don't like reading off a screen as much as off paper. b) There is a thing about turning the page, the smell of a book - for me - is something important.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
    1. Re:Why I wouldn't buy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Sure, paper has it's alure. I used to be strictly oposed to non paper. However reading off PDA has won me over. The major benefit of carrying 100 books around in your pocket, with portable book light and automatic bookmarks is a strong sell. It means no matter where I am, if I'm bored or waiting I can simply pop out my PDA for an instant, temporary escape. I'm glad there are people in both camps because as long as there is a strong demand I can continue to enjoy both.

    2. Re:Why I wouldn't buy. by montyzooooma · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been reading off a Tungsten E2 palmos device using Palmfiction ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/palmfiction ) (handles txt and rtf better than the built in e-reader) for a while now and I'm pretty happy with it. These e-ink screens are fine but they need a light source so it's not an automatically better choice. The only freaky thing is reading off a PDA with autoscroll on for an hour and then when you stop the text still seems to keep moving.

  22. DRM for books now?! by BestNicksRTaken · · Score: 1

    iTunes/iPod for books?!

    You mean once you've bought a book, you can only read it, you cannot loan it out, give it to a charity shop, or even show other people?

    I guess it also means you can only read it in one place, jees I'll have to chose between the crapper and the train now.....

    I guess once a year we'll have to buy a new version of the book if we wish to continue reading it, and subscribe to a new library every couple of months or else we won't be able to read any new books.

    Better read the book quick too, before the vendor revokes your rights to read it.

    And don't read any dodgey books as it'll probably dial home and report you to Homeland Security.

    I was just thinking the other day that I could do with an ebook reader, like a big screen without the laptop bit, as I have so many ebooks and it's not the same reading whilst sitting in front of a PC. But the thing stopping me is that I know anything like that will be full of restrictions.

    --
    #include <sig.h>
  23. Google: A plea by Bootle · · Score: 2, Funny

    Dear sweet, evil-less overlords,

    Please please please PLEASE bring the unwashed masses electronic paper. Thousands of pages, hundreds of hours of power. Please! Break the cartel of book publishers that strangle poor college students' wallets. Give them an e-reader and downloads of their texts for free/cheap. Allow universities site licenses for their texts, and give outgoing students the option to buy their copy. You are more powerful than Harry Potter!

    And do it quickly, before Sony writes a textbook destroying rootkit.

  24. Shame on P.G. for that one by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    Yeah it's a little embarrassing that they don't have the English version.

    A few seconds of Googling turns up the standard English language translation by Sir Richard Burton, available here. Seeing as it was translated in 1883, I think it's suitably out of copyright.

    Anyone have any idea how you go about submitting something to Project Gutenberg?

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  25. Beside Travel Guides by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone already said the obvious for travel guides but there are also things I can do with books that can't be easily done with electronic devices (unless you're full of money). Something I do often with technical books is to open a few of them in front of me while the computer's screens are kept exclusively for the task ahead. Even with multiple tabs to various sources of information on the web, it's just not as efficient. With a few books in front of you, your brain can cross process the data from each book and sometimes it's all that's needed to move forward.

  26. No reading books for you. by AHuxley · · Score: 1
    In Capitalist West Microsoft drm turns book off after 5 pages.
    In Soviet Russia kgb turns book into 5 pages for you.

    In Web 2.0 CIA and google read with you.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  27. The hardware is there, just by michaeldot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are some quite capable eBook readers on the market, lead by the Sony Reader and the iRex iLiad. Both feature an e-ink screen which uses a matrix of charged dark and light particles at a resolution of around 160 dpi to represent a paper page.

    There is no backlight and power is only consumed when the black/white charges are flipped to rebuild the page. The Sony Reader is rated at about 7000 page turns before a battery recharge is necessary. It can be happily left on without worrying about the battery going flat, and owners report in excess of months between charges.

    Without a fluorescent backlight, the screen is far easier on the eyes than reading on a LCD screen, provided the ambient light in the room is good. The screen readability is roughly equivalent to a pulp paperback novel. (The texture is smoother but the white is not pure white, rather a very light gray.)

    The main limitations are getting the content onto them. The Sony Reader accepts text, RTF, PDF and Sony's own proprietary eBook format, which is what books bought from the Sony Connect store are supplied in (DRM protected).

    RTF is generally accepted as the best form to obtain and create books in, as PDF has to be specifically make to the 600x800 screen resolution (larger PDFs scale poorly) and is slower for the device to render.

    Buying books from the Sony Connect store is acceptable in theory, but in practice the range is somewhat limited to recent bestsellers and popular classics, and the price is only discounted around 20% from a pulped tree equivalent (for something that is less tangible and less shareable).

    Books from the Gutenberg project and other sources can be freely downloaded and transferred as text (plain) or RTF (moderately formatted) although these of course are classic, out of copyright works. More modern books, for which a legitimate or illicit PDF or CHM has been obtained (eg, O'Reilly manuals) can be converted from their original form into RTF, but the process is somewhat tedious and more work than the drag-and-drop method of say transferring a downloaded MP3.

    (This is also not helped by poor Sony Connect software (intended to be iTunes for eBooks, and clearly UI inspired by it), which is slow and poorly designed.)

    Still, with the Sony Reader and similar devices accepting up to 4GB SD cards, able to store a library of many thousands of books in a quite readable format which is slimmer than a potboiler novel, the hardware certainly shows promise. This is a first generation line of products, so inevitably it will improve for the next rev.

    Filling them is the hard part, which is where Google could help.

    1. Re:The hardware is there, just by kalidasa · · Score: 3, Informative

      *As a device*, I love my Sony Reader. When I can find a good copy of a good book in a format that works with the software, it's a very pleasant experience (and yes, I do bring it into the bathroom, though not into the tub - but then I would never bring a paperback into the tub, either). Unfortunately, the Connect software is so bad that it makes it pretty damned hard to get the kind of use out of it I would prefer. The Connect bookstore is atrocious: I'd say as much as 10% of the books are mis-categorized (since when is St. Augustine's *City of God* "Contemporary Fiction?"), the selection is terrible (10,000 books? That's about the size of a little airport bookstore - and like the airport bookstore, there are multiple copies of some books), the interface is frustrating (nothing like having two scroll bars, and why do ebookstores insist on listing only 10 books per page - well, probably so it will seem like they have a bigger selection), and the quality is very uneven. Converting anything other than an RTF is irritating - for text, Connect can't figure out when it should run lines together and when it should preserve line breaks, and it doesn't ask, and PDFs are simply scaled rather than being reflowed, so most of my PDFs (like O'Reilly books) aren't readable unless I go through a laborious cut-and-paste process or find some software of dubious legality to decrypt them). There's no mechanism for updating fonts (sure, I could hack into the machine, which runs a Linux, and add them myself, but I don't have time for that), and I need to keep a Windows VM for the Connect software (which looks so bad it might as well have been written in Swing and at least been cross-platform). Finally, there's no commercially available software for formatting your own books, except for a Japanese program sold by Canon for the Librie and a bunch of mediocre freeware that never quite does a good enough job.

    2. Re:The hardware is there, just by macshit · · Score: 1

      There are some quite capable eBook readers on the market, lead by the Sony Reader and the iRex iLiad. Both feature an e-ink screen which uses a matrix of charged dark and light particles at a resolution of around 160 dpi to represent a paper page.

      I tried the original version of the Sony reader, and found it extremely overhyped -- it had nice resolution, sure, but frankly it wasn't that nice, and the contrast was quite low (and the display color somewhat unpleasant); overall it was almost as annoying to read as a normal LCD in the bright florescent lighting of the store. That, combined with the glacial update speed, awful UI, clunky form factor, and typical sony DRM crap, pretty much killed any interested I had in it. Maybe the the iRex thing is better, but given the horrid Sony offering, I'm kind of skeptical that the technology is anywhere near ready...

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    3. Re:The hardware is there, just by Serious+Callers+Only · · Score: 1

      This is where Apple could step up to the plate with iTunes as a conduit for getting data onto a similar Apple ebook device. This could even be a perfect feature for more capable tablets - if it did the media reading parts right, and had a nice multi-touch interface (à la iPhone), it'd be a lot closer to a Knowledge Navigator than the readers we currently have. But I'd be happy with just the ebook.

      An iTunes store partnered with a capable, very thin ebook, would be a great combination, and a guarantee that all the parts would work together, with polish, not just-about-work-if-the-stars-are-aligned. As for content - they could partner with Gutenberg and offer all the gutenberg stuff for download to kick-start their library. There's a lot of good stuff on there. Then later bring in Google and real publishers, most of whom have realised that time is running out on their current distribution model. It would be difficult for Google to do this on their own because none of the ebook manufacturers are producing something which will work seamlessly with whatever software they put out. The only way it can work for them is if they do it on the web, and then wait for ebook/tablets to have wifi.

      What this sector needs is someone who's willing to take both hardware and software (on the device and the computer) seriously.

    4. Re:The hardware is there, just by nomadic · · Score: 1

      There are some quite capable eBook readers on the market, lead by the Sony Reader and the iRex iLiad. Both feature an e-ink screen which uses a matrix of charged dark and light particles at a resolution of around 160 dpi to represent a paper page.

      I was very excited about the Sony Reader, until I got a chance to try one at the bookstore. The quality of the screen is excellent, size was good, price was high but not ridiculous, but that burst of static when you turn a page just killed it for me. I really hope they figure out a way to make a reader where that doesn't happen, but it might just be one of those insurmountable technical issues.

    5. Re:The hardware is there, just by pen · · Score: 1

      I returned my Sony Reader. The hardware is beautiful and functional. The software was pure crap -- including the device's software. As you mentioned, PDFs scale poorly. But RTFs and ASCII files are also poorly formatted. And -- get this -- no Unicode support!

  28. for the visually impaired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I have been using gutenberg.org for about 2 months now and I love it. Reading analog books is not pleasurable for me due to my poor sight and being to resize text on my downloaded .HTML books through Firefox is quite nice. Gutenberg has a decent selection but it is only a small fraction of the books in real life so having somebody like Google working on an E-Book system is great news for people like me.

    Besides, literature is expensive; only about 1/3 of the price goes to actual profit for publisher/author. The rest of the price goes to materials (20% of total cost), storage for unsold copies, printing staff, etc, etc.

    Digital distribution could significantly drop prices...now that $60 dollar hard cover could cost 25$

  29. Jewel cases? No, thanks. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    Ugh. If you like traveling with a bunch of jewel cases, that's fine, but I, too, remember The Time Before iPods, and I didn't like it one bit.

    First, those jewel cases suck. I'd never manage to go more than a few days without cracking one, or breaking the hinge pins so the covers would fall off, or any number of other things. They were just a bad design from the beginning.

    Plus, whenever I went anywhere and brought a handful of CDs, I'd always end up wishing "gee, too bad I didn't bring CD x, that would have been fun," where x was always some CD I didn't bring.

    Sure, both these problems are solvable: friends of mine used to tote big binders of CDs around, with the discs and their liners tucked into pages, sometimes 300 or 400 discs to a book. But in addition to just being heavy and a pain to move around, they were even bigger theft targets and worth more money than iPods are. I wouldn't want to carry my actual collection of CDs around with me -- not only would 300 discs probably be worth upwards of $400, that's not counting the time and effort that went into amassing the collection in the first place. An iPod, on the other hand, isn't cheap, but if it gets stolen, replacing it is straightforward: buy a new one and re-sync it. (N.b., I didn't buy an iPod when they were new and cost $500, I waited until they were down around $200.)

    But the real problem in comparing MP3 players to eBook readers, as others have pointed out -- and I think this is where most companies attempting to market them have fallen short -- is the number of books you can consume in a span of time versus MP3s. If I go on vacation for a few weeks, I can easily listen to dozens of CDs worth of music, hundreds of individual songs (and I'm sure some people could probably listen to thousands, but I'm not a true member of the Cult of the White Earbuds yet). But the books I'd read in the same time would easily fit into the bottom of my suitcase.

    If I was going to be marooned on a desert island (which somehow had a mains outlet and other infrastructure on it), I'd definitely want an ebook reader instead of paper books. But as a portable device for vacation or other short periods, it's tough to beat that "charming little clothy box."

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  30. No, it's still wrong. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    The author was incorrect to use it, particularly in quotes, because they were talking about a U.S.-based company and U.S. law. In the United States, the term is "fair use," not "fair dealing," so the former would have been the correct term.

    Alternately, the author could have not put the term in quotes, which would have made it acceptable, or better yet, used the correct term in quotes and then followed it with the term that would have explained it to the casual non-U.S. reader. However, he or she did neither.

    By putting the U.K. term in quotes, it made it seem as if "fair dealing" was a term in U.S. law, which it is not (at least not in that context -- 'fair dealing' in the U.S. jurisprudential system means something else entirely).

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  31. Is this new? by ocellnuri · · Score: 1

    Companies like Vitalsource have been doing this for years now. http://vitalsource.com/ (Quite literally, iTunes for books) Unfortunately either publishers don't trust the distribution method, or customers don't trust it. Is Google's name all that's needed to change the problem on both ends?

  32. The great thing about a book... by Infonaut · · Score: 1

    is that when you're reading one, the book itself offers you no distractions. The physical book contains just the novel (or guidebook, or collection of short stories, or whatever) you're reading. Nothing gets between you and the content. The book offers escape from the short attention span theater we all live in.

    So yes, I'll take the four novels and the guide book when I'm on vacation.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  33. I hope they make this system accessible by musther · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Accessibility is very important. I'm visually impaired and use a device (www.bookcourier.com) to read text files. Of course, most ebooks aren't distributed in ASCII, but in some kind of DRM'd format. I've spend a lot of time coming up with ways to break the DRM on ebooks, just so that I can use them. The only format which I know can be reliably broken is Microsoft's .lit. I'm not stupid enough to hope that google will release books in plain text (although I wish they would), and I'm sure almost no publishers would allow them to, but I hope whatever portable reader they produce has good text to speech.

    Having said the above, google might as well release them in plain text, I'm sure the slashdot crowd appreciate the uselessness of DRM. In fact, it's generally easier for me to attain an illegal copy of a book (which I can format shift) than it is for me to buy one and try to break the DRM.

    This world is really screwed up!

  34. The Right to Read by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  35. iTunes will be the iTunes for Books by dr.badass · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Call me crazy, but I think iTunes is more likely to be 'iTunes for Books'. Here you have this hugely popular downloadable content store that already sells every other kind of media, versus Google, which, bless their hearts, has never had much success selling anything but ad space.

    I don't think it's such big leap--the store is all ready there. iTunes already distributes some PDFs with music albums, and even supports them in podcast feeds. I assume PDF would be used because it's not yet-another-proprietary format, is extremely versatile, supports content protection, and is easy to produce.

    The other part of the equation is the devices -- e-reader devices have traditionally sucked much ass through some combination of being bulky, low-resolution, greyscale, poor format support, poor battery life, and by virtue of being yet-another-device-to-carry-around. Regardless of what you think of the iPhone, I don't think you can argue that it's lacking in any of these areas: It'd make a damn-near perfect ebook reader. It already supports PDF, already syncs with iTunes -- it's begging for content. And I'm begging for a page-flipping gesture.

    Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Apple isn't planning to start selling ebooks -- but unless Google can make buying from them not suck (Google Video, I'm looking at you in disgust), and bring something more than a Blackberry as a reader, I still say Apple is in a much better position than Google is.

    --
    Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
    1. Re:iTunes will be the iTunes for Books by BiGH-Aus · · Score: 1

      maybe with the iPhone, they could display them. ipod's screen is currently too small to really use books nicely, and not many people want to read on laptops. Hopefully theywill introduce books available online through the itunes store. That being said, if they were DRm'ed and unable to be copied, or -redownloaded I still woudln't go near them. Also it will take a while before portable devices with screens suitable are produced. The first gen of e-ink ebook readers are very good, but when this technology grows and is incorporated we should see some very interesting improvements made.

  36. Re:Imagine them smoking weed and listening to book by Hyperspite · · Score: 1
    I predict that there will be a trend of teaching with audio/video download files.
    At universities, this is already happening. You can download videos that show you how to perform a certain operation on differential equations or how to manipulate a tool in CAD. It's really helpful and sometimes better than the actual lecture.
  37. What sort of format will the books be in? by Knifethrower · · Score: 1

    I hope they use an open format with little or no drm. I have purchased ebooks from Baen in the past (http://www.webscription.net/) and I love their no-drm html file setup. For reading ebooks I just use my cell phone, it's small and get's great battery life, no screwing around with an ebook device. I use Tequilacat Book Reader, it's a simple, free and excellent tool (http://tequilacat.nm.ru/dev/br/index-en.html). If Baen stuck all sorts of DRM on their books I would be limited to using a small number of expensive and poorly designed devices but since it's just html I can do whatever I want with it, if Google can do something like this I would be very happy. More companies need to follow Baen's example.

    1. Re:What sort of format will the books be in? by QuickGeek · · Score: 1

      Same here. For most of my reading needs, I use my cell phone. I use Wattpad as the reader (http://www.wattpad.com/). It is simple and free. You upload the text that you want to read and an ebook is created on the fly. The ebook is also automatically shared so there is a huge selection to choose from what's already been created by the community. E.g. all the Project Gutenberg's ebooks have been created.

  38. What iPod did to music. by twitter · · Score: 1

    Yes, I'd rather Google not do to books what iPod did to music. They came late to the party, added DRM and several layers of obfuscation, and gave the entrenched monopolies of the past a toe-hold in the digital future. The net result is that the nicest of hardware is also the some of the least friendly to free software and it's users. Others have been publishing ebooks without the restrictions. I'm not going to be happy if the only way to get newer books is going to boil down to a choice between ever more expensive pulp and DRM. That is the choice the non free publishers want to give you: surrender your freedom or be banished from your own culture.

    I'll be very sad if Google has joined the wrong side of the American publishers war against libraries. The most distressing sign is that they will point to Ammazon before they point to Project Gutenburg and other free sources. They have been very good about pointing to free software, creative commons and other free culture. Books and academic publishing is just as important and freedom needs powerful friends like Google.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:What iPod did to music. by jb.hl.com · · Score: 1

      What the iPod did to music? It popularised the idea of using a hard-disk player, made it socially acceptable and made the use of an online store (yes, DRMed, but the DRM isn't very restrictive (and, as I found recently, is very sily-eanay ripped-stray)) popular.

      If someone can do that for eBooks, where nobody has been able to before, then they'll stand to be very successful.

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
  39. iTunes for books? see Webscription.net by funkycat · · Score: 2

    As I see it, theres already a quite useful and working system for eBooks thats like iTunes, but for books, and thats webscription.net, although there is one big difference, NO DRM. I've personally been using this website for a few years to get ebooks, It started off with only one publisher (Baen) but lately it seems to be branching out with other publishers as well (although slowly). It doesn't have many different genres of books, but it is selling current and future releases and offers large portions of the books to preview.

  40. I disagree by FallLine · · Score: 1

    Until there is decent hardware to read books on, projects like this aren't going anywhere beyond niche markets.

    I love books, I own a few thousand of them and buy new ones every few months. I don't own a single ebook and I doubt I ever will because I've yet to see an ebook reader that was superior to an actual book. The only benefit to ebook readers over physical books are portability and storage capacity. The problem with this is that neither of these are big problems with physical books - if I'm going on a long trip it's not a big deal to bring even a few full sized hardbacks along to read. I don't need to have a library of books on my person at any time, the most books I've ever needed to bring with me anywhere at one time (since high school) was 4, and that was to read on a flight to the other side of the planet. I don't often fly to the other side of the planet.

    Well I used to feel much the same way: I abstained from buying any of the earlier ebook readers and would never ever even consider really trying to read anything on a PDA/laptop/etc, but the new eInk devices work pretty well. I've got the new Sony eBook Reader and I'm quite happy with it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not ready to throw out books just yet (and I read at least 2 books a week on average), but it's definitely getting close. I'd give it another few more years to start gaining real mainstream traction.

    Legibility is perfectly good, imho, comparable to a decent paperback. I've read about 20 novels on this thing since I purchased it and I haven't had any problems.

    What it's lacking right now is:

    1) Equally good online selection & equivalent prices (though improved since Nov?) -- there is a small premium on most things (esp. considering I can't readily share it with friends/family), though frankly I don't mind it that much (being able to get what I want now is kinda nice... kind of like iTunes is to Ipod ... only not quite as slick).

    2) Better firmware. Stupid quirks, which are perfectly fixable, exist in the software. For instance, if I walk away from the book and brush it against something, it'll cause the pages to skip forwards or backwards by some large number... there's no easy way to simply return to where I left off unless I vigilently bookmarked every several pages as I read (and this compounded by 2 second refresh time for flipping through--doesn't matter when you read, but it does when you want to flip through something quickly). A few lines of code could fix this #$@$

    3) Some small form factor changes. The buttons are in kind of a wierd place.

    4) Battery life could use some improvement. I may be alone in this, but I've only been able to get 2-3 novels per charge or about 1.5K pages. This is about 1/2 or 1/3 the number they quoted. Not a show stopper, but it'd help its long term ability to replace books.

    5) An integrated backlight/frontlight would be nice... a real advantage over paperbacks, though I guess Sony chose not to for marketing reasons.

    Overall, I find it's very nice to have though. I do like not having to carry several books with me when I travel (especially hardbacks -- I'd PAY the same price softback just for the privledge of not having to deal with them). I often find myself needing to carry more than 4 books and even that is a pain for me since I like to travel light (avoid checking bags in almost all of my trips). It's also nice being able to copy text files, PDFs and such to it for review. I don't often find myself wanting to read stuff that is in the public domain stuff, but it could save you real money if you do. This is where I see eBooks really gaining a foothold in the short run -- applications where commercial printed books simply aren't available (e.g, more nice/obscure works, personal papers, public domain stuff, etc). I also envision niche markets sprouting up precisely because of this technolog

  41. What is this, anyway? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    'Do you really want to go on holiday carrying four novels and a guide book?'

    I really don't want to go on holiday carrying an electronic reader/player and whatever bulky and awkward gear is needed to keep it recharged.

    They are being vague, too. Is this 'audio book' they are talking about? Or are we supposed to scroll down reading half paragraphs at a time on the dinky display on an iPod? Audiobooks been done already. eBooks have, too.

  42. LIbrary already have this by majortom1981 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I can already take out a book and read it on my computer from my local lirbary. what makes this so special? I know I am the network tech who gets questions from patrons on how to do it. I mean that the book is an electronic copy.

  43. It'd be pretty interesting for science magazines by farker+haiku · · Score: 1

    imagine reading an article that has sources - and seeing "click here to download" the source for $.99 or whatever. Universities could have subscriptions for student, built in wi-fi, the ability to share portions (a page or so) a-la zune.... generation 2 of these machines could be very cool indeed.

    Of course, we'd start getting spam to buy penthouse letters for cheap, but hey.

    --
    Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
  44. Apple should do the hardware for Google. by planetwc · · Score: 1

    So where are the decent sized ebook readers? The IRex is close, but seems targeted for business with it's price point. Apple needs to make a tablet for this purpose. Make it the size of a sheet of paper. Use an acclerometer a la the iPhone to detect rotation. Use multi-touch for the input. Support chm, .doc, html, PDF, rtf .txt. Use Safari to do the rendering and all the file formats above are just supported via plugins to Safari. In fact Apple could do this quite easily given the technology they have at hand in partnership with Google and tied to the iTunes store. A tablet sized iPhone model with Wifi and bluetooth, with media card slots in addition to flash memory. It would be sweet.

  45. Are you sure about that? by LuNa7ic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Google hopes to 'do for books what the iPod did for music' Convert them into a obscure format and then riddle them with DRM?
    --
    *runs*
    1. Re:Are you sure about that? by daeley · · Score: 1
      "Convert them into a obscure format..."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding

      Advanced Audio Coding (AAC) is a standardized, lossy digital audio compression scheme. It is a method of compressing audio files, such as WAV, AIFF or imported from a CD. ... AAC was developed with the cooperation and contributions of companies including Dolby, Fraunhofer (FhG), AT&T, Sony and Nokia, and was officially declared an international standard by the Moving Pictures Experts Group in April 1997.


      "...and then riddle them with DRM?"

      Fairplay: DeDRMS, PlayFair, QTFairUse, and Hymn

      Or just, you know, don't buy iTunes tracks and use your ripped MP3s instead. Or don't.
      --
      I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
  46. Sheet Music by indigest · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think this is a great start for an application to help musicians. Any classical musician knows that the amount of sheet music you own quickly spirals out of control. Not only that, but the books are heavy and cumbersome for a student to drag around. And they can be very annoying when they don't lay flat or the binding breaks. Oh yeah, and these books are very expensive, especially when you need a specific edition imported from Germany.

    I was impressed that some of the books on books.google.com were sheet music books, although I was only to find partial previews for the ones I care about. Still, it is a good step and hopefully publishers will move towards downloadable sheet music in the future.

    Some day, I hope there will be a good, cheap, portable sheet music tablet display with enough memory to hold a library of music scores. It could have some basic musician's tools like a metronome, digital tuner and audio record/playback. It could also have a wireless connection so that a conductor could just transmit the entire orchestra's music in one button press instead of passing out and keeping track of a hundred different scores.

  47. eInk by DrYak · · Score: 1

    In order to save battery time (drains power only to change pages), most eBook reader uses non-backlighet eInk.
    It makes them less depending on a power source than a laptop.
    But it makes them dependent on a light source like a book.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  48. The sweet smell of paper by Fist!+Of!+Death! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Being a paper-sniffer I just can't see a future for this. Every book has its own unique sweet smell of wood pulp made laminate - unless you can reproduce that via an olfactory plugin to the digital device, I would rather lug the tomes around thanks very much.

    What? stop looking at me like that!

    --
    Nothing witty
  49. Ahem: by EinZweiDrei · · Score: 1

    May I do the honors of being the first Slashdotter to describe this device with the term "Lie-Berry".

    --
    Perhaps life really is full of possibilities.
  50. Kamasutra by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    Interesting - the Kamasutra by Vatsyayana is currently the top book today, yesterday, this week, and for the last month.

    Those who can't do ... read ;)

  51. Need A Bookreader; Need a Format by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I could possibly stand reading books on a screen rather than a paper-bound original. Several things have to happen:

    I looked at books briefly when this was first pushed, almost 10 years ago. the format sucked, the DRM sucked, the selection sucked, the hardware sucks bigtime. Nothing much has changed.

    First, nobody wants a restrictive format. DRM, by its nature, IS restrictive. Until the book industry, like the music industry, wakes up to this fact, they will be restricted in what they sell. IIRC, the main sale point for existing eBooks was mainly manuals, where the DRM was cancelled by the convenience of having huge volumes of reference material in a small package.

    -The problem with reference material is that nothing beats the speed of riffling thru a paper book. Textual search features are great, but soemtimes not effective.
    -Page size - you can fit a lot more on a piece of paper than the same sized screen, Until we have ePaper with 600dpi, the "eye fatigue" thing will be a problem.
    -some books come on PDF so you cannot re-arrange the screen layout (i.e large type?).. The whole file-format thing is an issue; if it won't do Text, DOC, PDF, PPT, and most other default existing formats, what good is it?
    -what about magazines? (A PERFECT eBook app. Timely subscription) Most are designed for full-page (9x12 or so). Either they all go to DIgest size, or your screen becomes unwieldy.
    -Price, or what I like to call the "iTunes problem". The markup is beyond reason. When iTunes sells you a song for $1, the artist (if lucky) gets 10 cents. This means that really, you could cut out the money-grubbing midllemen and sell for, say, 25 cents; 10 for the artis, 10 for the publishing/production company, and 5 for iTunes. Ditto for an album, that costs almost as much as in stores for a CD copy. When eBooks try to sell themselves for half the cost of a physical book, that includes paper & printing, transport, store and warehouse inventory costs, etc - someone is making a killing, Unless you buy from the author's web site, it probably ain't the author.
    - the ideal hardware would be a roll-up e-ink screen with electronics attached. Pull it out halfway for a trade paperback sized page; all the way for magazine-size. Or, if you can't do rolls, a form of clamshell where you get facing pages of a book with the hinge in the middle, or a full-page magazine with a seam across the middle of the page. (Think "fold a piece of paper down the middle").
    - the ideal book will do all formats. It can do colour; it can do "read aloud" for those "books on tape" moments. It can remember multiple placemarks, and maybe allow you to highlight. (What good is a travel book without colour photos and maps, etc.?)
    -but if it will do audio books, it will do MP3 as well; and if it does colour, why not do phot albums? video? (But we're not as concerned about refresh rate and motion blur yet.)
    - Text, audio, video, input; by this point, it is straying into being a computer. Why not go whole hog - it's a PDA, with the full programmability and USB connections, runs you datebook and Email, browses the web. (Whatever happened to that stupid little touchscreen computer that Microsoft was pushing about 6 months ago?)
    - now we add a built-in camera and the ability to chat, and we've come full circle - with the camera, you won't be able to take your guide book into some museums...

  52. I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try searching Google Books for a public domain work like Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn and you're taken to where you can buy a copy of the public domain work in question rather than to the text itself.

    I'll believe it when I see it. "Dont be Evil?" From a corporation? suuuuuuure....

  53. Google doing what ereader has done for years? by YeeHarr · · Score: 1

    I've read novels on my palm for years. It's particulary useful for Neal Stephenson books which are enormous.

    www.ereader.com formerly known as palmdigitalmedia is where I get all my ebooks.

    I also get normal files and convert them to the palm media format and use their ebook converter under wine on linux (DropBook).

    I find my T3 + an SD card a great way to read books. I can bookmark pages, highlight sections of text and lookup words using whatever dictionary.

    And I don't mind good DRM. It means I can get new release books on my palm without waiting too long (they can become available when the hardback comes out).

    However - I'd like ereader on linux without using wine. Hmm.

  54. Embrace the past by Cappy+Red · · Score: 1

    Some counter-points:

    1. I can cuddle a physical book. E-books are un-cuddleable.
    2. Following up on that thought, there is something really great about the feel of good book paper.
    3. Have you ever smelled a well aged book? The perfume formed from the paper and ink and dust is one of the best scents I know.
    4. I enjoy not having a backlit screen. Looking at screens all the time becomes tiring, and I feel far more impatient in my reading when I do it off a screen.
    5. (direct response to parent's #4) Have you ever found someone else's notes or writing in an book? Perhaps a slightly older book? There is a sense of connection through time that is not to be hastily cast aside.
    6. You can share e-books... at least not in the same way you can share real ones. True, more often than not, they don't come back, but shared books become physical symbols of connections between people.

    Cue cheeky exit line:

    Meet Johannes Gutenberg. Mainz's famous inventor. Dig him up and shake his hand. Appreciate the man.

    --
    This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things