Slashdot Mirror
BBC To Host Multi-OS Debate
Bananatree3 writes "BBC is currently seeking submissions from all you Microsoft Windows, Mac and Linux devotees "in 100 words or less, why you are such a supporter of your chosen operating system and what features you love about it". They will then select one user of each platform to go head to head in a debate that will be part of the BBC's Microsoft Vista launch coverage on January 30th."
Don't appply unless you're 20 something and remotely good looking. The BBC recently knee capped their tech presents to only pretty people who don't seem to care even remotely about tech.
Not to mention I've seen nothing but Second life all over the news tech wise in months.
I like muppets.
They should have specified that submissions cannot use words with numbers for the windows crowd. ;p
Because it's not Microsoft Vista?
Thank you, the defense rests.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
Whoever appeals to the general public and doesn't alienate themself with overly strong opinions. Someone who recognizes strengths and weaknesses in all platforms and summarizes that, but puts a spin on their own favorite platform.
QTFA: "We have received many entries and have now closed the call for submissions. We will be in touch with people shortly. Many thanks for taking part."
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I foresee a potential disaster in the linux presentation.
It's undoubtful that the most hardcore Free Software fringe of the Linux community has the most public appeal.
I mean...they're somewhat "weird", it's likely that the BBC will chose a super nerdy guy that bitches on everything that is not free software, and the topic will change from a mere technical analysis to the usual religion flamwar.
Windows and OSX will be presented as desktop systems. I doubt the server side of the story will be interesting to the average BBC listener.
Linux, unfortunately, will fail to show its good cards there. I'm not talking about mere graphics, of course, but the whole user friendlyness "from the scratch", hardware support...
I hope the supporters choice will be wise.
640KB of virtualized ram will be enough for everybody
And don't say "fewer attacks and/or security exposures on this OS as compared to Windows", because right now all non-Windows platforms are benefiting from "security through minority".
There's even a dorky genius here on slashdot who posts from his Amiga, and one of the benefits he lists for using steam-powered computing hardware, is the complete absence of any attacks targetting his box. Although he probably has to worry about termites eating his DRAM.
All of that would change if AmigaOS or Linux or whatever became the de facto standard.
FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
they only had a few submissions. I guess news spreads quickly beyond Slashdot. :)
emacs vs vi
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
There's no "good OS", "bad OS" anymore. We have a developed industry and specialization. We have a bunch of OS that are all good, but for vastly different purposes.
... free). /less than Mac, but not a lot/, lots of software, superb dev tools).
My web servers run on BSD and Linux (simple, secure, stable, proven,
My designers run Apple-s (cultural phenomenon, the whole product line speaks "design", good software, user friendly).
Most of my developers and my accountant run on Windows (user friendly
When you grow up, you realize there's no place for favoritism and politics in here, just tools you pick depending on your task.
That said I suspect Apple supporters will come out the winners from the BBC competition. It's purely a branding thing, and entirely predictable: all Apple does it cool (good job, Steve & co!), all Microsoft does is not cool (with power comes resp... come the obligatory haters), and all Linux does, is way too geeky (by geeks, for geeks) and no one in the general public cares.
I submitted something to this yesterday but I think they've stopped taking submissions now.
I repeat what I wrote here for the benefit of you all and the good of society in general:
"Vista is best computer. it plays all my games just with putting in the disk and cliking on the mouse, i like the internets also and just with clicking the OKs it works really good in Vista.
My frend works in IT and he says that linux is rubbish and you cant even put in the dvds and theirs no games and he says no proper business would use it because it wont let microsoft run their programs on it so it is useless for all serious things. That is another reason why i use Vista because its good and i can use it for business too if i wanting to.
Mac is too expensive and will get too dirty cos its white"
So, the BBC is just too burnt out to cover this one themselves? I don't know about you, but I don't feel like watching some inexperienced laymans' debate unless they're required to drink a beer every 10 minutes and are given the ability to electrically shock eachother which they are strictly told to "only use as an extreme measure".
What I noticed from the comments, is that it seems most people who have tried multiple systems, prefer Mac or Linux. Most people who prefer Windows have ONLY ever used Windows, which defeats their arguments, they dont even know an alternative to compare against, they are simply saying a computer is better than not having a computer.
That to me would seem to be the best argument for a non-windows supporter, "I KNOW there are better OSes because I have actually used them".
If this were really happening, what would you think?
Reading this submission from the BBC site
"It seems to be very stable, and I have had few problems with the final release copy. I am sure the general public will enjoy its user friendly features. I recommend the Business or Ultimate versions, since they have the Complete PC. Backup feature, which I have found to be about the most useful feature of Vista since if one has a good backup to a secondary hard drive, DVD or External Hard Drive, it can save a lot of time in system reconstruction in case of hackers or system failures. I think the general and business community will save many millions if not billions of hours by using Vista. Mike Scott"
For some reason reminds me the cosmetic and grooming regime and genesis vs phil collins bits in American Psycho which obviously opens the debate as to whether all Windows users are closet psychopaths.
For me the issue has always been more about the morality than the technology. Proprietary vs Free/Open Source. Monopoly vs diversity. Most importantly I consider the nature of the people/companies delivering the products. We all know that Microsoft software is incredibly unrealiable, insecure and too big and slow, but even if they were delivering the best software in the world I would never buy or use it if I had the choice. It is because I object to and abhor their business practices.
Microsoft itself has been mired in legal problems almost from its inception. It is probably the most sued company on the planet and it has been convicted of economic crimes in many different countries. They then simply ignore whatever legal judgements against them using their incredible financial clout to challenge whatever the courts rule. They seem to be completely immoral. It is for moral reasons more than anything else that keeps me away from using their software.
Yes, technology is important, but morality is even more important.
If reading OS fanboy arguments online isn't enought for you, now you can experience the towering tedium of them live on TV! Thanks BBC!
Ok, so this is probably asking for flame but when you look at the comments on the site there are two consistent patterns:
Either,
"I've always used Windows, never used Linux/OSX - Love Windows, Linux/OSX sucks".
or
"I used to use Windows, switched to Linux/OSX - Love Linux/OSX, Windows sucks".
I know that's what everyone mostly hears anyway and I know there are Windows users out there who can genuinely say, based on proper comparisons, that Windows is best for them - but the uninformed Windows user really sounds pathetic.
And the guy complaining about Apple charging for wireless unlike Microsoft - that's just funny.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Host: So you don't like Microsoft Windows. Care to explain why?
Mac/Linux supporter: (Tosses chair at Microsoft supporter.)
Toss a chair?! There is no way a Mac/Linux supporter would ever lower themselves enough to toss a chair at a Microsoft Supporter. I don't care how obtuse they're being. It just wouldn't happen, and I find the accusation vaguely insulting.
We would toss the Microsoft supporter at the chair.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Windows supporters claim their OS is the best, because a) most of them aren't aware of what an OS actually is, b)It means they don't have to think about what they're doing, c)they're already using it so it must be the best, right ?
Mac supporters claim theirs is the best because, a)it looks so much better than any of the others, and b)everything just works (never mind that it is built using only known and defined hardware).
Linux supporters claim theirs is the best because a)it's free, b)it's not vulnerable to viruses, and c)it's not Windows or Mac.
I placed my comment on there stating my support for GNU/Linux, as in my opinion, it remains the only OS (with respect to the BBCs question) which is designed to be used as a general purpose computing system. Windows is a black box, and does it's best to restrict the users. Macs are designed for ease of use and visual appearance, not for maximum flexibility. Linux is designed to be flexible, in every sense possible. It can look as good or better than a Mac, it is not restrictive in any meaningful way, it is open to change and despite what the big two like to promote - it is not difficult to use. I don't care whether people think it's "ready for the desktop" because these people really have no concept of what a computer is for, they just want an appliance. That's up to them, but for myself, I would rather have something that can perform virtually any computing task I throw at it, and not have to pay through the nose to be a part of somebody elses restricted vision.
Of course my post on the BBC was somewhat more succinct than that, as 100 words is really far too short to make a serious point about anything.
Also, I take any opinion espoused by the BBC as suspect, because they are fairly IT illiterate themselves (at least in their reporting staff). They consider a rootkit "a virus" Pop quiz, and a pc is nearly always considered to be running Windows. I must admit, incidences of "forward slash" on TV are getting less gradually. (before you start, how many times do you use the term "full colon" to differentiate from a "semi colon" ?)
And when the show starts, I will resign and agree to all of the Linux supporter's statements.
[sig]
Karen Bowerman: Well, Guy Kewney is editor of the technology website Newswireless.
Goma: (Face of horror)
KB: Hello, good morning to you. Goma: Good morning. KB: Were you surprised by this verdict today? Goma: I am very surprised to see...this verdict to come on me, because I was not expecting that. When I came, they told me something else and I am coming. You got an interview that's all. So a big surprise anyway. KB: A big surprise, yeah, yes. Goma: Exactly. KB: With regards to the costs involved, do you think now more people will be using pirated windows? Goma: Actually, if you can go everywhere you're gonna see a lot of people downloading to the Internet and the website, and everything they want. But I think it is much better for the development and...eh...to inform people what they want and to get the easy way and so faster if they are looking for. KB: It does really seem to be the way the OS industry's progressing now, that people want to get OSs for free. Goma: Exactly. You can go everywhere on the cyber cafe, and you can take...you can go easy. It is going to be an easy way for everyone to get something to the Internet. KB: Guy Kewney, thanks very much indeed.i use teh linux cuz i r a 31337 h4xx0r0r & ur box will be 0wned by me cuz im so 1337 & all 1337 h4xx0r0rs use teh linux and teh intarnet runs on teh linux also
See you in the studio!
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
It's true that rms may not be the best introduction to linux (or gnu/linux) for the general, non-technical public audience. But there are lots of very eloquent Free Software advocates who can be very persuasive without coming across as gonzo anarchist whack jobs. Regular people are starting to notice DRM, at least when they can't (easily) transfer their iTunes files to another player. Get someone like Eben Moglen in there to talk about MS and Apple working with the entertainment industry to sell us our "culture by the sip", and that will resonate with them.
Get someone from a free documentation project like Project Gutenberg, or the library community, to talk about proprietary formats and the dangers they pose to our ability to access our own data. Maybe not everyone will get it, but I think there would be real value in introducing people to the idea that they can get off the MSOffice upgrade treadmill.
I know rms' stubborn adherence to sticking GNU in front of Linux rankles a lot of people. But this is exactly why it is so important. If we want to argue in favour of Linux only in terms of features (more stable, excellent browsers, spreadsheet needs work, wordprocessors ok, multimedia tricky etc.) then we throw away our most compelling strengths. If you just want to replace Windows, Linux is ok, but if Windows is the standard we measure by we will always come out behind. But if you want to replace the proprietary paradigm that Windows represents, GNU/Linux offers more than enough to make up for the gap between OOCalc and Excel.
Like any social movement, you have to present your message with tact. But that doesn't mean you should abandon that message all together.
yp.
Dilbert January 25, 2007 (Disclaimer, I still use windows :P)
Why do I prefer Linux over Windows or Mac? That's pretty easy, but it also goes to show how it all depends on what you want out of a system.
But obviously I'm an experimenter. I need basic tools, like a good web browser, as much as anyone, but beyond that I like having a system which is very flexible and open. If, on the other hand, you're an eBay-phile and really really want to use Turbo Lister to manage your auctions, then all the above points are irrelevant: you need Windows because that's the only platform on which Turbo Lister runs -- End Of Story.
proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
I think it just says that those Windows users are perfectly content. People who use it like it and don't see any reason to switch. If somebody owned a certain make of car and liked it so much they refused to buy any other car, does that automatically "defeat their arguemnet" that it's a great car?
If people were so fed up with Windows, Apple wouldn't have to run commercials to try to make windows users feel uncool. Linux zealots wouldn't have to be zealots. There wouldn't need to be endless forking of distros trying to improve on something all the others didn't address.
You should always use the best tools for the job, whatever you're doing. People's impressions of what tool does the best job varies, but I think anyone who's a zealot for any ONE system is a moron. The smartest people I know use whatever is needed in the circumstances.. for example, Windows or a console for gaming, OS X for desktop, Linux for servers (or Ubuntu for desktop, etc).
So this 'debate' will really be three or more zealots sitting in a circle flinging mud at each other, screaming that one operating system is the best, rather than actually admitting they all have their niche. This isn't just a BBC trait, but one of the whole media.
Since this is for a 'MS Vista launch', probably funded by some Windows interest somewhere, what makes anyone but Windows advocates think that this will be a fair debate? Seems to me that MS Vista will be the winner despite the debate or presentation. Are you guys really that naive to believe that MS Vista isn't already the winner in this particular debate presentation?
This article is nothing more than sensationalism. I might as well ask, "what are the best style of shoes?" A useful discussion is what are the benefits of each OS. Using that information a person looking to pick an OS for them, for a given use, can make an informed decision. In a previous article I wrote a list of features where Windows and OS X were respectively ahead of one another. Sadly, not a single person replied with additional features as I requested, while numerous people responded to argue tell me that some feature was not useful (I don't care if it's useful to you) or to argue that their favorite OS was just as good at that, even though they obviously had never used both OS's being compared for that purpose.
Just for fun, I'm going to copy my list here and add Linux into the equation. This is going to be a lot harder, because there are so many different Linux distros with so many different features and no one has used all of them. I'm going to try to stick to things I've used personally. Please if you have features to add to one list, go for it. If you want to complain that your favorite OS is better for some reason you can't put into words, or if you haven't actually used all the OS's and thus are just assuming the way other OS's do it must not be better, or if you want to argue the reasons for these advantages and disadvantages, please don't bother commenting. Also note, this is in regard to use on the desktop, not the server.
OS X Wins:
Windows Vista Wins:
The BBC usually tries to prevent/control debates as much as possible. They used to have a system where people would send in emails to the "Have Your Say" page, and they would select the ones they liked. After lots of complaints of censorship, they changed over to a system where you could post instantly (like Slashdot). However, they quickly backtracked so that virtually all debates are "Fully Moderated". Much of the time perfectly valid comments are not published. Occasionally they do have "Reactively Moderated" discussions on trivial topics like the Oscars, but if anyone ever dares to criticise the BBC, the posts are removed very quickly.
For example, a while back the BBC had a "Have Your Say" topic on Google's participation in censorship in China. Some posters rightly pointed out that the BBC also censors things. These posts were removed at breakneck speed, but this prompted complaints at the new censorship. The BBC then started removing the new complaints, prompting even more complaints. Eventually they gave up and as you can see, the top rated posts are about the BBC's censorship, not China's. See here
When I complained to the BBC about this, I was told that posts about BBC Censorship were "off topic". So posts about the BBC's own censorship on a topic about China's Censorship are so wildly off-topic they have to be removed? People are becoming very tired of the BBCs censorship and sites like NewsSnifferhave started to appear. NewsSniffer automatically logs censored posts on the few open debates that are allowed to exist (It also logs the changes made to news reports)
Most people who were interested in real debate at the BBC never really used "Have Your Say" because of the BBC's control over the limited number of topics and the general low-probability of having your post accepted. Instead many people used the BBC Message Boards, which are sort of hidden away from public view. The busiest was probably the Today International board where people discussed the top news stories in more depth than was reported and covering many things the reporters were either ignorant of or chose to leave out. Unfortunately, the BBC has recently shut this down in favour of a system where the topics are picked by BBC Staff. Their excuse for this was budgetary concerns (they only get £4 Billion or so). Today's topical, controversial and cutting edge debates are 1. Do children need to learn Britishness at school?, 2. Are scientific terms like homo sapien out of date?, 3. Does affluence bring misery? (See for yourself http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbtoday/F5963509).
Considering the BBC's astronomical budget and the technology available, they could quite easily have a "Discuss" button underneath each news story which would take people to an open discussion. They'll never do it though. The BBC have opposed open debate at every turn.
They should choose that Anonymous Coward guy, he always has plenty to say...
Does this mean that each debater's point will be punctuated with Benny Hill skits and music? That would totally make it worth watching.
"I can be self-referential if I want to," said Tom, swiftly.
As a guy... Go on Beauty and the Geek show, survive long enough to get a make over, and then try applying for this BBC event.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
As a Linux user, I would say that using iTunes to distribute content is just vendor lock-in of a different nature.
God is imaginary
I don't know what industry is "the industry", but you must not be in any tech-support related industry if you think Windows "Just Works". Sure, it "Mostly Works, assuming you are using very standard software and well-supported hardware, and you aren't trying to do anything very clever." Then there are the times where it "Just doesn't work, randomly, and not a living person on earth can figure out why but some MCSE will give you a line about how 'the RAM must be bad'."
A lot of software exists for Windows that isn't likely to be ported soon. Windows emulation enables non-Windows users to run them anyway.
And why are so few Windows users concerned with Lunix or OS X emulation?Because open source software that originates on Linux have a tendency to become ported to Windows, while the reverse (closed source software that originates on Windows) does not exhibit the same trend. The closed source Windows programs requires involvement of the holder of the source code to be ported, while the open source Linux programs can be ported by anyone with experience in programming in both affected environments.
Mac User: well, violence is for the intellectually feeble anyway, so I will stay here and write a damning article about you other OS users, as the pen is mightier than the sword, I feel I will win.
.. erm, at least the err.. .. erm, ratings will have gone up. And to think the best that Channel 4 could do was put Jade back on Big Brother.
Linux User: yeah right. n00b luuuuuser! My ninja skills will kick your a$$ right to the middle of next week, Take that! ow. ow! Nobody said this violence thing would hurt! Not fair.
Windows User: guys, meet Dave, he's a special forces sergeant and, well, he's been given money to see that I win this argument. Cheers Bill. Go for it Dave.
BBC: That's not quite the arguments we were hoping for, but..
Linux User: not fair, not fair, this is cheating thi sis arggggggg.
BBC:
Mac User: like back off man, this is a violation of my civil libertieeeieieieieeeeeeee
BBC:
OS/2 User: Sorry, I thought I'd have a bit of a kip. Am I too late to join in?