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Schools Act to Short-Circuit 'Cyberbullying'
Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "So-called cyberbullying is a growing problem for school administrators, the Wall Street Journal reports. What may once have been snickers in the hallway can now be an excruciatingly public humiliation spread via email, text messaging and online teen forums. From the article: '"There's always the legal discussion of 'if it doesn't happen at school, can a district take action?'" says Joe Wehrli, policy-services director for the Oregon School Boards Association. "If a student is harassed for three hours at night on the Web and they come to school and have to sit in the same classroom with the student that's the bully, there is an effect on education, and in that way, there is a direct link to schools," he argues.'"
The thing that I find somewhat amusing about the whole issue of "cyber-bullying" is that the online world is the traditional playground of geeks. Now those geeks are getting picked on in their playground instead of just the one at school - the difference being that in this playground, the geeks are the bigger, stronger ones. So, you decided to try to mess with me online eh? Lets see how tough you act when your Myspace page is filled with horse porn, and your parents' inbox is filled with spam from the darkest corners of the web, with your name in them. Still acting tough? Whoops, sorry, I guess my finger slipped and I sharded all your purples in WoW. And distributed your gold to everyone in Ironforge (you Alliance pansy). And got you kicked out of your guild. So, stop picking on me at school, and I'll stop destroying you at home and online. Deal?
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
If only. Sadly, its just that the bullies have learned to use a computer. Actually, to be more precise, they've learned to use the bare minimum of IM, E-mail and MySpace. Ask them to do anything else, and they'd probably implode.
Nothing is impossible. We just haven't quite worked out how to do it yet.
Here's a thought: How about they handle regular bullying, which happens in the school, before worrying about cyberbullying, which is more out of their hands?
The thing is, at least in my experience, bullies rarely get punishment for their bullying, even when the abused works up the courage to complain to someone. Some schools may have more things to worry about, like fighting, drugs, and gang-wars, but there are plenty that don't. Most of the teachers in these schools turn a blind eye to the problem right in front of them. I've only ever seen one teacher, aside from the school counselar, tell a student to knock it off. Vulgar slurs, personal attacks, and cruel nicknames may seem like something kids are "supposed" to do to each other, but it has longer reaching effects than most adults will admit to.
And, when doled out in large quanitities, can lead to Columbine-like events.
No, I don't have an answer for bullying. I wish I did. When ever a bully is punished for what they do, it's generally a detention, and then they're back dishing out more punishment because you turned them in. Perhaps some sort of humiliation for them, like having to wear a dress for a day, would help them realize what it does, but the parents would complain that their "darling angel" is being unfairly treated, and that would be the end of that.
So if they don't get punished at school, of course they're going to continue at home, because the parents tend to be oblivious to what they are doing. Even worse is that some of those on the receiving end of bullying at school will turn around at home and do cyberbullying. Often they'll target those who attack them at school, other times they'll go after the popular kids, usually anonymously. This gives them a feeling of control and power, the reverse of what they feel at school.
So take care of regular bullying first. Then you'll know how to work against cyberbullying, and in the process probably take care of some of it, too.
but words will never hurt me This is the biggest load of bullshit ever. Words hurt, really hurt and the damage done by psychological bullying is far deeper than physical bullying.
Schools here in the UK have as part of their remit to tackle the serious problem of bullying in whatever form it may take. I applaud this initiative.
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
"Real" bullying is all mental. Physical abuse is only a small part of it. Bullies like to make other people feel inferior because it in turn makes them feel superior, and if they can do that without the bother of beating someone then in my experience they will. I was bullied badly in school, yet I was very rarely involved in any physical confrontations.
I like my coffee the way I like my women - roasted and ground up into little tiny pieces.
The whole concept of everything that could possibly affect a kid's education being the state's responsibility scares the hell out of me. Yeah, his point about after-hours bullying carrying through to the classroom makes a certain amount of sense, but frankly, I don't care.
We sometimes might eat food that doesn't conform to the district's nutritional guidelines. Is that the school's concern?
My kids get to play video games that the district would never allow. Is that the school's concern?
The rugrats might even play a game of tag in the yard, even though the district doesn't allow it anymore. Is that the school's concern?
No, no, and no. And neither is it the school's concern whether my kids are the source or target of bullying when they are not in school. Stay out of my living room! I am the parent here, not a well-meaning but fascist bureaucrat.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I'm not sure how things are working in other cultures, but in the U.S. part of our problem is bowing to the overly sensitive.
If we give our kids the tools to handle pressure, and the outlets to deal with it, they will be much healthier adults. Since the 1970's, we've psychoanalized ourselves into a morass or "feelings" and "inner child" excuses. We want to legislate and be protected from things that "offend" us. So, our children grow up, not being able to handle the pressure and they go to the extreme when they snap.
I'm reminded of the line in an Eagles song, "I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass." (Get Over It). The term now-a-days is "Man Up". If you went crying to school administration, or you father, they'd tell you to get tough.
If you don't teach kids how to deal with it, how to get angry, but control it, how to defend yourself, but don't start it then we will soon have a nation of people who shouldn't be allowed out of their homes.
I was listening to local talk radio yesterday and the discussion was about a Texas town where the word "nigger" was going to be outlawed. One of the callers couldn't understand why the radio host considered people a little too oversensitive to the word. The caller wanted all hateful words legislated out of usage because it was his right to be protected from them. He told the host that if someone used the word "nigger" on him, he would pull out a gun and shoot him. His inability to deal with the harshness of the world makes him see murder as a proportionate response to a racial slur. He literally said that in order to avoid him shooting someone, government should make a law against the slur so he could take the person to court. (Seattle Dori Monson Show.)
We need to teach kids to deal with it, react appropriately and proportionately and responsibly, and not expect to be protected from things that offend them.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
Mod Silver Sloth up. Almost all bullying is mental, not physical. Again, from personal expereince, I was bullied by girls. I was never bullied by boys because they didn't want a physical confrontation with me. It was constant sniping and ridiculing to put me down. If they had access to the internet as well back then, life would have been pretty unbearable. I'm not sure how this can be controlled, or if it should, as it all smacks of censorship. But the schools have a duty to inform all the parents on all sides. Very few parents would enjoy hearing that their darling is a vicious little bully. If that doesn't work, expel the little bastards, so at least the victim doesn't have to see them every day.
Define "real." Whether physical, psychological, or emotional, bullying is bullying. It is one person attempting to dominate another, based on completely arbitrary social/physical boundaries ("I'm bigger than you," "I'm smarter than you," "I'm richer than you"). The fact is, schools have never come up with concerted efforts to stop bullying, and frankly, without constant surveillance, it's nearly impossible. A bully isn't going to do something to someone in proximity to someone in authority; that's why "cyber-bullying" is the new rage, because it's more "anonymous" than doing it to someone's face. The only way they will be caught is the the person being bullied reports it, and that's the point of the bullying: to make them hesitate to tell anyone, so they can continue to be used as someone else's form of entertainment.
What I don't think the cyber-bullies understand is that because it's technology-driven, they can be tracked. The hoops they would have to jump through to cover their tracks is probably beyond the grasp of the vast majority of bullies. Mind you, you are now seeing the ascendancy of the "techno-savvy" bully, who bullies other because he/she has superior technical skills/knowledge.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
Here here.
Actually, I was rarely physically bullied as even in most unfair fights, 2 on 1 kind of thing, you'd better had been REAL sure you wanted to pick it with me before we got into it. Holding your own against a couple of fucking assholes actually makes you feel pretty good.
But when a dozen fucking assholes surround you and torment you verbally, day in and day out, it really is not a good thing. Back in the day, this stuff was completely ignored. Heck, I got in trouble more often than my tormentors. They'd push me to my limit, I'd push back, and I'd get suspended for that kids bloody nose. Even though it was that group of a dozen kids that didn't take the bus home so they could follow me all the way home tormenting me every step of the way.
My crime? Being one of the ~15% of my public school that lived in the neighborhood. The rest were bussed in. Just about all of us that actually lived in the area were 'outsiders' and tormented relentlessly.
At least things changed when we hit high school. I went to a very diversely populated high school. Started playing football. I hate football. But I got to play against a LOT of my former tormentors. Offensive Tackle is a very good position I can tell you, and vengeance is sweet no matter what your mom says.
Back to the point. Things can only be worse now with the available technologies to not only torment relentlessly, even after kids have gone home. But the added ability to do so anonymously. Someone absolutely should be dealing with this kind of thing. And really, how are parents supposed to do this? They'd have to monitor all this communication. Figure out that this tormentor is actually Bad Billy from a couple blocks over. Talk to his parents that have the attitude "How Fucking Dare You Accuse My Son Of Shit" (While bad billy is in the back room torturing the cat). Parents really can't do shit.
But the education system however. They can separate kids. They can give kids detention. They can suspend kids. They can teach kids. They can mediate. They can keep kids that refuse to behave civilly from playing the sports they want to until they smarten up. They can have some authority backing them up when discussing issues with problem children's parents.
This is not about freedom of speech. Not even a little bit. Freedom of speech or not, I still would be well advised to not come utter death threats to your face. Freedom of speech is not intended to be a get out of jail free card or a license to ruin someones life.
And for all you parents out there that have a Bad Billy but refuse to accept it, here's the truth: Bad Billy is truly Bad. He's a fucking asshole. He's going to end up living out life in jail if you don't do something about it NOW. It's not everyone else out there. It's not the education system. It's your child, and your lack of parenting. Period.
No Comment.
/ignore
:)
Okay, so that wasn't exactly what he told me. But that's how it applies to internet bullies.
Bullies get their jollies by making you look little. They want to feel superior to you. If you just put every account they create on ignore and don't bother reading whatever crap they post online in an attempt to get a rise out of you, they'll get bored and go elsewhere. The problem is that a lot of kids think they have to argue back any time anyone says something about them. They can't shut up long enough to realize they are giving the bully exactly what he wants.
Favorite stunt against a bully: I once told a guy I'd let him hit me three times and if he could knock me down with any of those three punches I'd give him $20. Three hits later I was still standing and he was seriously reconsidering the idea of a fight. He was a wuss and I knew it
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Yeah, usually physical abuse is just one part of it. All my physical wounds have long since healed from my days of being bullied. I've been hurt much worse in boxing matches and it doesn't phase me. But the mental wounds never really heal. It's been probably ten years since anyone bullied me. I lift weights, I'm a boxer and I'm pretty big...so no one looking at me would think I was bullied. But my ego is totally smashed. When you go through years of being a total whipping boy for every sadistic asshole at your school and the "authorities" can't or won't do anything you can't just "snap out of it". Now I'm hopelessly shy, no confidence with women, I always feel like an outsider even with people I've known for years...people want to know what the hell is wrong with me. I was bullied and tormented every day all through the formative years of my life that's what!
Also there's such a stigma attached to being bullied that no one even talks about it. It's like sexual abuse, it's just something you can't casually talk about. It really is serious. Maybe someone should make some kind of anonymous support group for survivors. Is "survivors" to extreme? No. Get tormented every day for ten years and you are going to have mental issues, sorry!
You do not have the right not to be offended, and neither do children. In life, there are going to be many people who won't like you, and as such, you have to develop your own inner self independent from the opinions of others.
Now, if an adult hits an adult, he will be tried for assault. Similarly, if a bully attacks a kid or is found physically hurting him, taking his lunch money, etc. I think he should be expelled and sent to a military school, or better, his parents will have to pay the normal fine for assault (around a thousand USD) directly to the kid.
- pay attention in class
- don't run in the corridors
- attend the required lessons
they're teaching children how to behave. If you take your line to it's logical conclusion then teachers shouldn't step in when pupils are fighting because that's teaching them how to behave.90% of what you learn in school is about social skills, or 'how to behave'. Most of it you learn from your peers, but teachers, especially the good ones, will be leading the way.
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
It took a toll on me but in the end I ended up being a much stronger and thick skinned individual for it.
Did you ever think that people are different, and bullying might affect them differently? I'm sure there's people out their that are stronger people because they were abused as a child.. but that doesn't mean we should tolerate child abuse.
Sheesh. When will people stop assuming their personal experiences aren't always universal?
AccountKiller
"Your son should know that lying will get his suspension extended. he keeps saying that you told him to hit the other child"
"Yes, that's correct"
"errrr...hmmm. Never got that one before"
Of course, these days, I would have been expelled, and my mother brought up on "conspiracy to commit assault" charges, while the jackass on the bus that was bullying would have just picked a new target.
there should be a teacher there to protect kids on the playground, but past a certain point, kids need to learn to stand up for themselves. When they get into the world, there will always be people that will attempt to bully them, whether it's their boss trying to get them to work unpaid overtime, or any one of a hundred other things in life. If they spent their childhood running to a hug consoler, they'll never know how to handle it in real life.
Maybe this reflects one of the differences between the US and the UK. A significant portion of my education, back in the 60's, and of my son's education (ongoing) was/is related to social skills. I'm not saying that it's the schools responsibility to deal with episodes which happen at MacD's but that behviour will, inevitably, be part of a pattern which is repeated in school which is their responsibility, both social, and, in the UK, legal.
So, back in the real world, when my son was being bullied, both in and out of school, it was the school which dealt with it, in co-ordination with all the students and parents involved. It wasn't a witch hunt, it wasn't trial of the century, it was simply the forum where issues like that can be resolved in a non-confruntational manner.
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
One of those was the teachers encouraging other students to laugh at you whenever you screwed-up.
Since I screwed-up a lot, I soon developped the ability to not give a rat's ass about what other people think of me, an ability that has served me pretty well in the decades since.
But of course, in a politically-correct ages, busybodies have to have something to do, too, no?
...for bullying to occur?
This statement illustrates the problem. Bullying must be tolerated for it to occur. The best person who can deny a bully permission to bully is the bully, himself. That's called self-control and if the bully had it, this issue wouldn't come up. So what's next?
Schools and parents think they can deny a bully permission to be a bully. They can't. They aren't there when the bad guy acts out. They can punish afterward but they can't do a damn thing to stop the bad behavior while it's actually happening. Like training a dog, if the conditioning isn't presented timely, it's useless.
No, there's only one person who can effectively deny a bully permission to bully: the victim. In real life, legal consequences and PC-nonviolent sensibilities be damned, the only effective way to change the behavior of a bully is for his victim-selection process to fail. When he comes across a "victim" who knocks out his teeth instead of cowering in fear, the bully will stop. (For the moment. He may have to be "conditioned" a few times before he truly learns to think before he acts.)
What amazes me about the quote above is that a victim would remain online for hours, getting bullied, while shutting down the bully is a simple matter of turning off IMs (or whatever channel the bully is using to reach the victim) and going on about ones business.
We don't need to protect victims by trying to defend against bullying. We need to teach victims how to short-circuit the whole process. They are the ones with the strongest legitimate interest in seeing the problem solved. They are the *only* ones who are in the right place at the right time to implement solutions. Hit back. Turn off IMs. Whatever, just stop being a victim.
And one of the major problems with schools today. No longer learning institutions, it's a place where your kid goes to learn math and letters for the first few years, and then spend all of high school trying to become a big name in the sport of their choice. And the parents and schools encourage this.
Sport programs are fine, but when education (and funding as such) and fair treatement take a back seat to it, it becomes an issue. Too often students in any kind of sport get preferntial treatement because they can throw a ball really far (which is a fairly useless skill, except for the sport itself).
I recall a story from late last year. Two high school kids were pushing a fake deer in front of cars or something as "a practical joke". Well, their practical joke made a fellow student wind up in the hospital for months. In court, the judge deferred their punishment SO THEY COULD PLAY HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL. Said some bullshit about town pride or something.
Town pride is respecting other citizens and the town, which means you don't steal a fake deer and throw it in front of cars. Not letting potential criminals play fucking football.
Oh, come on Kenny, Earl just wants to cross you off his list.
Why would he be working at McDonalds?
Umm... bullshit. Go work in a real business and tell me there aren't bullies, sadistic backstabbing co-workers, power-drunk bosses, etc. They need to handle it themselves, otherwise their whole life will be them being a victim.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
...huh? Are you sure you replied to the right comment?
I, too, was bullied all throughout my childhood. I was always sick, and so I was always the smallest and weakest. Yeah, I got cuts and bruises. Do I still have them now? No. However, each and every experience as a child shapes us into who we are as an adult. As I got older, I got bigger. Before I knew it, I was the tallest person in the crowd, and people stopped bullying me. Just because the bullying had stopped doesn't mean the residual mental effects of past bullying magically disappeared. Physical wounds heal rather quickly, even deep ones. I wouldn't say the same thing about mental wounds, though, and just like a physical scar, a mental one is prone to reinjury.
Think of a domestic abuse victim, who constantly gets smacked across the face if they anger their abuser. The slightest raise in voice from the abuser would receive a certain response, probably in preparation to getting smacked across the face. Years later, this abuse victim is free of their abuser. They don't have bruises on their face anymore. However, when they feel they've angered someone, you can't possibly tell me they won't still get nervous and instinctually brace for a smack.
I'd say you are the troll here, unless you'd like to vindicate yourself, in which case, feel free.
Have you driven a fnord... lately?
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i'm gonna guess you don't have a kid, never been bullied (at school or otherwise), and have never worked in or for a school of any kind.
if bullying is occurring between classmates, it's the school's business because it does have a direct effect on the school and schooling of all involved, no matter when or where the bullying is occurring. your mcdonald's example of cleaning up crap has nothing to do with being popular, the manager would generally assign that task to either the new guy or quite possibly do it himself (i wouldn't have someone whose normal tasks involve handling food clean up crap, you've obviously never worked in food service either). the reason the bullying is occurring in the first place is because those involved are classmates, not because they're just kids who happened to meet but go to different schools (which does happen in parks and playgrounds, but this isn't related to that). also, many times parents don't even know the bullying is happening. the school usually finds out because they can see the effects of it (and are generally more experienced with the effects of it and dealing with it than parents). so while the actions might be happening online from home, the effect is to frighten the victim while in the presence of the bully, which is usually at school. meaning, direct relationship to school.
please me, have no regrets.
Or heck, this from Columbine, site of the infamous shooting:
e /Columbine.html
"Here is more of what the [Washington] Post found was going on at Columbine:
Bullying was rampant and unchecked. For instance, a father told Post reporters about two athletes mercilessly bullying his son, a Jew, in gym class. They sang songs about Hitler, pinned the youngster to the ground, did "body twisters" on him until he was black-and- blue, and even threatened to set him on fire. The father reported the bullying to the gym teacher, but it continued. When the father took his complaint to the guidance counselor, he said, he was told, "This stuff can happen." The outraged father had to complain to the school board to get relief for his son.
Athletes convicted of crimes were neither suspended from games nor expelled from school. The homecoming king, a star football player, was on parole for burglary yet still permitted to play. Columbine's state wrestling champ was allowed to compete despite being on court-ordered probation, and school officials did nothing when he regularly parked his $100,000 Hummer all day in a fifteen-minute parking space.
Sexual harassment by athletes was common and ignored. For example, when a girl complained to her teacher that a football player was making lewd comments about her breasts in class, the teacher, also a football and wrestling coach, suggested she change her seat. When an athlete loudly made similar comments at a Columbine wrestling match, the girl complained to the coach. He suggested she move to the other side of the gym. Finally, the girl complained to a woman working at a concession stand, who called police. The next day a school administrator tried to per suade the girl's mother to drop the charges, telling her that press ing them would prevent the boy from playing football. When the youngster was found guilty, he still was permitted to play."
http://www.newfoundations.com/Clabaugh/CuttingEdg
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I still feel the same way. I was bullied in high school too. I actually tried to take my own life in grade 9 because of all the torture I went through, I stopped going to school for a while and my education suffered because of it. I was also abused by my father between the ages of 5 and 15. I'm still not right from it, I'm not able to socialize with anyone. I suffer from severe anxiety, stress, various social phobias and emetophobia (hense my nickname), which is the fear of vomitting (in public mostly). My anxiety issues are so severe that it causes nausea and vomitting (not good if you have a fear of vomitting!!) I can't meet women, because I get nervous, and when I get nervous, it builds and builds to the point of vomitting, and that's pretty fucking embarrassing (not to mention a bad first impression).
I have a lot of fears, but speaking up against bullying and abuse isn't one of them. IMO, it should be a criminal offense to bully someone to the point where you deprive them of their right to an education.