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Cingular, Others Fined For Using Adware
amigoro writes "Cingular, Priceline, and Travelocity have been fined for using adware by the New York Attorney General. The companies will each pay $30K to $35K as penalties and investigatory costs. More importantly, the companies agreed to a series of restrictions and best practices that, while they make eminent sense to consumers, will be loathsome to businesses accustomed to having their way with our computers."
If it was more than 30-35K, this is only a cost of doing business.
Ooooh, $30K fine. That's hardly a punishment. In fact, it might encourage them to release more invasive spyware, since it'll only cost them $30K.
["Cingular, Priceline, and Travelocity have been fined for using adware by the New York Attorney General.]
Silly people, they should have used adware by someone other than AG himself.
Now if they could only go after this Col. Motumbwe who keeps emailing me about his bank...
"there is a problem with your registry, click here to get a NEW BLACKBERRY from Cingular!"
And then there was E
.. A homeless man in N.Y.C was charged 400,000 per music download by the MAFIAA. He said he doesn't even own a computer.
35K is not even a slap on the wrist. It's pocket change for Cingular, and this will only encourage them to do more nasty stuff like this since they can get away with nothing. How about a $350 million fine instead?
Who gets this money?
Why would one need to install anything from these companies? Does anyone know any more details?
The article is pretty light on the details...
a company like cingular won't even care about 35k, hell they would drop that on a 60 second ad on tv. and those restrictions.. what a joke. they shouldn't be allowed to invade my pc with advertisments fullstop.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
30-35K is just a drop in the bucket for these companies. Unless that penalty is changed I believe a dangerous precedent has been established. Giving companies a one-time slap on the wrist for their first offense is useless.
We need see a proliferation of these lawsuits against companies knowingly engaging in this type of advertising practice. Increase the damages to the millions of dollars and then watch the large corporates perk up their ears...
Now only if the AG made a case against some spammers...
No words of wisedom here.
One hundred bellliiion dollars, Austin Powers!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
This is just one of many cases where the NY Attorney General is doing what the Federal Govt should be doing instead of taking away our rights. I would love to see a pro active US Attorney Gereral going after big business abusing consumers the way that has happened in NY. Oops I forgot he and his boss are from the party of the rich and selfish.
The real fault is jointly that of the OS and consumer. Allowing software with unkown ramifications is painfully stupid. If your computer is taken over by adware because you habitually just click "Ok" instead of thinking makes you deserve some of what you get.
I'm fine with penalizing companies that do bad things, but they're always going to be out there trying to find some way to shove their ad in your face. It's the same problem we see with spam, you can't stop the spammers, the only way to dramatically improve the situation is to change the behavior of the recipients.
The bigger fault is comptuer operating systems that allow software to make significant changes to the functionality of the system in adverse ways without making it clear that this kind of change is coming.
With my OS, I have to log in a root (and I'm reminded that it is a bad idea) every time in order to make those kind of changes. I appreciate the convenience of root/administrator but everything I need to do normally shouldn't and doesn't require that kind of access. That doesn't mean that my operating system is superior (although I believe it is better) it just means that the designers didn't expect me to need to trade convenience for safety. I seriously doubt users of Unix like systems have suffered from this.
I know it isn't going to happen, but I would have thought this was the best possible response if Microsoft (blind assumption but educated guess) was fined $30 for each affected system and each consumer who did something negligent was fined the same.
B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
Well, going by what they were charging this guy in Florida, they made at least that much.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Two articles in row about cingular! Both positive for them and no one else.
I wonder if lessons were learned from the HP affair? Now making your contractors and subcontractors be ethical is good. This is like the seat belt law here in Wisconsin. If a car full gets pulled over and none have their belts on, the driver will only find moths left their wallet after the fines are paid. It is about time and, plus, I have absolutely no symphathy for Cingular/Southern Boys Club/Another Terrible Telephone at all - they deserved the leash. The fine is chump pocket change. Now I wonder what will happen when they inevitably screw up and the leash is pulled back hard. Now that is the question.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
...humans do. They need to stop fining "corporations" and instead determine which named human made the offending decision, the guy who finally issued the order to do such and such offending thing, then freeze that guy's salary and compensation for five years (or more, to make sure they don't just raise it quickly to cover the loss to his check) and make that human pay the fine out of his own wallet, exactly the same as when joe sixpack gets a fine.
I call BS. There is no way that you know what every piece of software on your system does.
Now if we could just hold pharmaceutical companies responsible for their half of the spam in my inbox.
The summary makes it sound like these companies produced adware. Actually, it's almost the opposite. Cingular, Priceline, and Travelocity have been fined for buying advertising displayed through adware programs produced by others.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
What do corporations get for first degree murder in the US?
They all said I was crazy when I told them there was a gnome in my computer making it do things.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Free spyware and adware with my new Apple iPhone - GREAT deal guys. I'm glad Apple supports companies like this too.
...a criminal felony. And it would get back to that decision thing again, it will still take a named human to issue that order to try and hide the first guys fine payment. Just keep bumping up the penalities for playing dodgeball. We throw enough Cxx whatevers in the pokey and they will start to realise that sometimes your "profts" ain't worth it, maybe it's a better idea to be content with already being a millionaire.
I got nuthin against makin a buck, we all do it, but I got a lot against being a greedy sniveling cheating bunghole. And these big guys are always hiding behind that incorporation charter so they can pull little cute stunts like that. Put that at risk, the ability to stay a corporation, such as the "three strikes and you are out" deal we already use to "get tough on crime!!1!" (they say it's de law for the little guy,so it might as well include corporations, IMO), and always make a named human being responsible for actions, not this thing that end with the last name Inc., and we could sort this stuff out better.
Ya, it ain't perfect, but the current situation where they fine companies, then they pay that fine out of whatever they charge their suckers..err, I mean valued customers down the line..is nuts. It ain't working too well. We need something else.
So pardon me if from my external point of view, the party of the rich and selfish is BOTH Democrate and Republican. Same brand of right/centrist, only different flavoring on minor issues.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Well, Cingular top executives were sitting around in a restaurant one day, and one of them said, "How can we permanently lower our sales to computer professionals?" One of them said, "Maybe we can get ourselves on Slashdot for doing evil, mean, sneaky, and nasty things". The others said, "Great. That's it." And they all congratulated themselves for selling their souls to the devil, got drunk as skunks, and made lewd remarks to the waitress. Just at that moment there was the smell of burning sulfur in the air.
That's my theory about how it happened. Any other ideas? I realize that I have already stated the most likely scenario, and that it will be difficult to discover a more plausible one.
--
U.S. government violence in Iraq causes more violence, not peaceful democracy.
Isn't Opera a software using adware? Don't people install adware *voluntarily*, because they do not want a for-pay service?
So how can it be illegal to advertise over an advertising channel?
We're not talking spam here, but user-installed software, for dog's sake! Jeez, crazy Americans.
I'm looking forward to my 45 second murder sentence, after which I'll sign an agreement saying that I'll never do that again.
As I said I'm looking forward my another 45 second murder sentence, after which I'll sign an agreement saying that I'll never do it yet again.
As I said...
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
I'm still wondering how a technology that interferes with almost every other technology nearby could get an FCC license? For work, I must use Cingular GSM/GPRS/EDGE/3G networking. Personally, I've selected a different carrier. When using my personal phone, if the Cingular device rings (or a text msg is delivered), my PCS phone is kicked off the PCS network and my call is ended.
All the GSM licenses need to be pulled and the other posters saying that $35K isn't enough are correct. I don't agree with $350M either, but $35M would get their attention. Heck, where I work, many IT projects have round-off errors larger than $35K.
Get their attention - pull their FCC licenses and fine them $35M for "being bad." They need to fall under doing the "public good" line the TV stations must.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Laughing.
The Republican Party's current strength is in an alliance between big corporate power and big "born again" power. That's where the stereotypes of "rich and selfish" and "dumb hicks out in the boonies" both get attached. While the stereotypes are crass, they do point to the two main pillars of party support. These two very-different groups are united mostly in their desire to attain control - something neither of them could succeed at on their own. They are also united in their desire to undermine science where it threatens their control - whether that's the science of climate change or the science of evolution. But really most CEO types and most evangelical types would have very little to say to each other if they ever showed up at the same social occasion outside of a GOP convention. It's the ultimate marriage of convenience. Hopefully there will be a divorce soon.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
...even if the sentence is only a fine, it needs to be a felony. Felonies carry obnoxious baggage which you seldom can escape, and for many "business professionals", having a felony on their record can preclude their ability to obtain professional licenses or cause them to lose the ones they have.
But I do agree that penalties for this kind of bad behavior need to be focused on the individuals and the fines payable by them personally.
Does Cingular still exist or is it the new AT&T? I'm so confused. The TV keeps telling me the latter but the interweb calls it by the former *sigh*
I am Jack's smirking revenge.
There have been some good points in response to my original post that I think deserve some followup.
First, thank you 'The Bungi' for articulating what seem to be some of the most common responses.
No, the solution isn't to make everyone switch to my favored OS. Yes, it is better for me but I don't assume it is better for everyone.
That would be a start, and I do both when I'm on a Windows machine. For example, if I haven't added a site to my trusted list in IE, then any other page is HTML and cookies. If they're using a non-admin account by default, then another large set of problems would magically disappear. It isn't that people would stop doing stupid things, they would just have to work harder to do them. It pits laziness against stupidity and making it difficult to do something stupid is a good thing. Ubuntu, OSX and FreeBSD all do a pretty good job of making it harder to be stupid than lazy. That makes them more likely to be secure.
Yes. Increase the responsibility that is expected of end users. It is called criminal negligence when you let people use your gun or car and you should know better. When you let somebody you don't have a good reason to trust use your computer, you're doing the same type of thing, (granted it is generally not the same degree.)
I could wish it were so, but no, I don't think they'll click No, but I do think that when a Window pops up saying that the program they are trying to run requires the ability to make major changes to their computer and they have to enter the secret password they will A.) Be a little more cautious and B.) Click cancel rather than go to the effort a lot more often.
Burgled? I love that word, thank you 'EmbeddedJanitor'.
No, it is not like you got burgled and thus it is your fault. It is like you saying to the police that you don't bother to lock your doors because you know that somebody could pick the locks and you keep the alarm system PIN taped above the keypad so you don't have to remember it (just in case you do decide to turn it on.) Your penalty is that the cops will probably never recover your stuff. You're still a victim, you're just a stupid one that won't get much sympathy. Where I live it is illegal to leave your car unlocked and running at the gas station. It is still your car and having it stolen means that you are a victim, but doing something that stupid is illegal.
If you do take reasonable precautions but find out that your alarm company posts the master PIN online and your local locksmith opened the door for the burgeler, then you're going to be royally ticked and at the very least stop supporting them. That is much like what Windows has done in the past and a little like what IE does by default. Having the insecure lock and alarm is better than not having them, but you have every right to expect those things that are supposed to keep your stuff safe to at least make a reasonable effort to do so.
The solution is to change the defaults of the operating system they use and the actions the users take. If those two things are done, then the manpower required to prosecute companies and people intent on evil can be focused where it needs to be.
Victims need to be assisted and educated, but the level of stupidity exhibited by some of these people makes them accessories rather than victims. If you give someone a ride in your car after a bank heist, or let a criminial hide in y
B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
In your own theoretical you show where the problem is. Any lower level flunky who does something he is ordered to do is *under orders*. He didn't make the decision, his superior being made it for him. If the flunky thinks it is dodgy, he damn sure should keep records or if it looks *real* dodgy, get the orders in writing. And make firing people for insisting on important edicts being recorded a crime as well.
No matter who is the front public facing person for some bogus action, the boss above him would be charged if it was his call, or above him, until you get to the real ultimate order-giver. If it turns out to be the whole board, swell, they all get equal fines and/or pokey time.
The whole idea is, re-establish where the buck stops with a named human being or beings. No mort "acme inc did such and such" when it comes to liability. Acme would never get charged, civilly or criminally, named humans *only* because a corporation is just a set of documents sitting in a box in delaware, and that's it. A corporation doesn't *do* anything, human beings do.
And this isn't about penny ante stuff, just the biggees, stuff that gets news press about corporate wrongness. Sony rootkit-whomever signed off on that needs to be charged same as any other malicious hacker gets charged, not just a fine that the next customers pay. In this article, same deal, and no robbing the stockholders and lower level employees and the next set of customers from their cash and stake in the corporation-the decisions get made by the fatcats, they all certainly want to be individually compensated thoroughly, and are, so let them be also individually responsible for whichever area of the corporate fiefdom they are in charge of and give orders to. Make the buck stop at an individual, don't let it dead end at a table full of lawyers representing anything "Inc." while the real crooks are jetting off for a little golf and executive asistant action.
That's what is broken, and it needs to be fixed, and that is the way to fix it. Bring back the concept of humans. A corporation is not a human, it is just a construct recorded down on paper and digitally to outline an organizational set up- OF HUMANS. A little better thought out and implemented SOX on steroids in other words is what is needed.
"who do I want to take the blame?" The named humans in the mob, as has been already proven when such things did occur in the past and when the cops nabbed anyone or ones. You don't fill out a warrant for "a mob". They arrest a person or persons, named humans. The humans may be in a group, the group may have a name, but they arrest humans.
And yes, I'll keep saying it because it's true, a corporation doesn't do anything, people inside a corporate structure do things. Named human beings. If some crime comes out of your corporate "mob", I expect the heat to deal with whomever made the decision. That they don't do that now and allow them to skate and hide behind a fictious name on a piece of paper is completely bogus. Eventually if the crime is big enough and blatant enough they will go after names, ken lay-enron, but it doesn't happen often enough. They need to do it every single time. Cingular, should have been a human being charged. sony rootkit, same deal.
You can defend crimes by mobs by saying because some official "inc" mob did a crime so no humans are responsible, just the "inc", but I just completely disagree, so we'll have to leave it at that, and my original modding shows what a lot of folks think-they agree with me, humans need to be responsible, not some fairy tale pseudo person "inc" thing. Fine and dandy to be an inc for organizational structure, but your organization is made up of REAL humans, no matter how much you want to hallucinate or believe some "inc" is a person, it's not, it's a legal document. Take your own example, but your contention, and "inc" could actually go and do a murder, but because there is no "inc" to tyhrow in jail for the murder, the most that could happen is some monetary fine to the "inc" and a promise that they shouldn't do it again.
I disagree and I think most rational people would agee with me, so I say make it apply to all laws and not just pick and choose which laws you want to charge a named human to or not just because an "inc" is involved. There is no rationality to that-broken law-a human is responsible eventually someplace up that "inc" command structure, end stop. The legal document doesn't climb out of the drawer and go do a crime.
There is no "gun violence", humans who may seriously misuse a gun can cause violent crime. There is human violence. Guns don't jump out of a holster or gun rack and start randomly shooting.
There is no war on drugs, there is an ongoing effort to arrest *drug smugglers and dealers*, human beings.
There is no corporate crime, humans who may belong to a corporation might commit a crime.
I use language and words, I completely understand what a corporation is about, I just vehemently disagree when they aloow that "mob" to hide behind a piece of paper and get away with crimes.
If you or I installed as many trojans on people's computers as sony did,and got blatantly caught, we'd be facing serious hacking charges and more likely than not, pokey time. Some doofuses inside Sony and at their subcontractor's do it and the "inc" just gets a fine that they can then go ahead and pay out of their next consumers purchases.
That's just slap wrong.