Mass Storage For Phones

The Demo conference started today, and the first news out of it comes from Seagate, which will be introducing pocket-sized, 20-GB, Bluetooth-equipped drives for cellphones this summer. They call this tech "DAVE" (one wonders whether the acronym or the expansion came first). Quoting: "DAVE-based products will be about the size of a credit card and less than half and inch thick, with an operating range of up to 30 feet from the connected phone... Software to hook the drives up to cellphones has already been produced for J2ME, BREW, Windows Mobile, Symbian and XCCC. Palm compatibility is forthcoming. The platform is open source..."

Comments

Uh oh!

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

I can see problems connecting this to Windows Mobile devices - window's embedded tiny Hardware Access Layer being the source of contention.

DAVE: Hello, HAL do you read me, HAL?
HAL: Affirmative, DAVE, I read you.
DAVE: Exchange Java modules to open filesystem access HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry DAVE, I'm afraid I can't do that.
DAVE: What's the problem?
HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
DAVE: What are you talking about, HAL?

Re:Uh oh!

[sethstorm]

HAL: I'm sorry DAVE, I'm afraid I can't do that.
Let me guess that this HAL also does Digital Rights Management too?

Re:Uh oh!

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

HAL: I can't because Whiney MacFanboy (UID 963289) is a stupid fucktard who should go slit his fucking wrists.

I have no response to such a wittty, though provoking, humourous & elequont response.

I will now go & slit my wrists.

Re:Uh oh!

[AnimeDTA]

Reminds me of this Mac commercial.

... You like your iPhone better than me... don't you DAVE?

Re:Uh oh!

[RAMMS EIN]

``Let me guess that this HAL also does Digital Rights Management too?''

Not only that, but in addition, it also does needless, redundant duplications, as well!

Re:Uh oh!

[tehcyder]

I will now go & slit my wrists.

I hope suicide's not illegal where you live, as otherwise you've just condemned yourself out of your own mouth.

Re:Uh oh!

[Anonymous Coward]

If only you weren't such a blatant liar.

Re:Uh oh!

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

If only you weren't such a blatant liar.

Uh-oh, sounds like a REAL whiney mac fanboy is having a whine!

iphone

[Joe The Dragon]

Will apple let you use this with the iphone?

Re:iphone

[edwardpickman]

Beat me to the punch. It would definately eliminate a big hesitation for a lot of people. Also make it easier to upgrade to the next model iPhone.

Re:iphone

[draxbear]

Computer says no. *coughs*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_britain#Catchp hrases

Re:iphone

[john82]

In the Mac community, will Thursby Software have anything to say? Their product DAVE, note that the name is also presented in uppercase, has been in the Mac arena for more than a decade.

Re:iphone

[eMbry00s]

In the Mac community, will Thursby Software have anything to say?

Probably not, considering they operate in different markets. See the Apple v Apple case.

Re:iphone

[cheater512]

I dont see why it wouldnt work. Its bluetooth and the platform is open.

Apple sez:

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, Dave I'm afraid I can't do that.

Good for snoopery...

[Stephen Tennant]

With many phones offering call recording, this could be a comfortable option for one to record any and all conversations and store them, sans frequent laptop shuffle.

I mean, if you need to.

Oh brother

[bendodge]

If your going to make a mobile, just make one. I just want my phone to have calling capability, address book, and maybe a browser. If it's going to be a miniature PC, just call it that.

Re:Oh brother

[mlk]

Good for you. Nokia 1100 maybe?

I want a computer that fits in my pocket, and I don't want to be carrying a phone as well.

obligatory

[User 956]

DAVE-based products will be about the size of a credit card and less than half and inch thick, with an operating range of up to 30 feet from the connected phone

Great ideas like this are a HALmark of Seagate's R&D division.

Interesting Question

[Anonymous Coward]

How long will it be until, for some users, the home pc is phased out? Take your mass storage cell-phone, drop it in a dock, and have word processing, email, and web access displayed on a LCD? Have the same setup at your work, your school, or your home.

Re:Interesting Question

[Babillon]

This is a very interesting thought, and a shame the parent posted as an AC. I personally think that could be used to great advantage. We have many products currently to allow us to access our information at home from abroad... What if we had a consistant way to access that information in a way that didn't require extra work (thumbdrives would be concidered extra work for most).

Re:Interesting Question

[LaughingCoder]

The home PC will be replaced by the XBox or equivalent. Some small portable device will replace the various portable electronic devices like cell phones, home phones, mp3 players, PDAs, watches, portable media/video players, radios, portable TVs, remote controls. And with Zune and XBox, Microsoft has a contender in both markets. Wouldn't that be wierd if in the end Microsoft became a hardware company.

Re:Interesting Question

[SleepyHappyDoc]

Who needs a dock? This device is a 20GB drive that can sit in the bottom of your bag and connect wirelessly to your phone. How much of a stretch is a drive with Bluetooth or whatever (wireless USB?) that sits in the bottom of your bag, syncs to your phone or iPod when you're out, syncs to your PC when you get home or to work (from the bottom of your bag), syncs to your girlfriend's PC when you're at her place, etc., and contains your entire setup, say, in some kind of self-contained cross-platform VM? Is such a device possible with the technology we have now?

Re:Interesting Question

[clonmult]

Aspects of that are already here, although not that widespread.

You can get bluetooth keyboards for Symbian phones, and with Quick Office, you're set to go with wordprocessor and spreadsheets, albeit relatively limited, but good enough for keying in small documents. The only real catch is that the S60 screens are generally not that large (at the moment).

Heck, I'm pretty sure one of the keyboards had a phone dock in it - unfold the keyboard, stick the phone in the dock at the top, and you've got quite a nice little toy.

Re:Interesting Question

[Jesus_666]

Actually, wha not just add Bluetooth functionality to the terminal and take the phone out of the loop altogether?

I'm one of those folks who think that mobile phones (need to be on all the time) and mobile computers (should be in standby when you don't need them) don't make a good package. Why not put everything on portable storage and use terminals with or without an own OS? You start the terminal, you connect your storage, your OS is loaded. If a mobile is supposed to be able to pull that off an energy-efficient 1 GHz box will do it as well. When you don't work on it it can serve as an answering machine or a PVR or whatever.

Re:Interesting Question

[RAMMS EIN]

I think such devices are certainly possible. At least, all the technologies are available. The trick will be (1) having them all in one device, and (2) writing the software. Many devices currently only include a subset of the technologies they would need to interact with _everything_ (e.g. they have WLAN xor Bluetooth). Also, many portable devices are closed or semi-closed platforms that you can't easily develop your own software for.

Solving (1) is only a matter of time. Devices with all the needed connectivity and storage options are probably already available, though not necessarily widespread. Solving (2) will be the more difficult problem, because vendors want to lock you into their platform and software, so that they can wring money from you. If you can somehow line up your interests with those of manufacturers, you will have your device soon enough.

Re:Interesting Question

[Kijori]

The problem with that plan at the moment is the sync speed - at 2.1 Mb/s Bluetooth isn't really fast enough to copy an entire setup across in a reasonable amount of time. Perhaps you could use multiple connections, but even running 10 at a time you'd be looking at 3 minutes to transfer a 500MB image - allowing people to run different operating systems would need more, and many programs would take a good 10 minutes to even copy the files across, before even starting the program.

Re:Interesting Question

[DeadChobi]

And then a mysterious genetic anomaly will strike in 2012 when the fourth world ends and the fifth world begins. This anomaly will express itself by causing otherwise normal human children to be born with pointed ears, or to have stunted growth and an unusually dense body. By 2030 we will have wireless mesh networks surrounding us, and will communicate with each other through a form of Augmented Reality where all the information the mesh is transmitting appears overlayed on our normal perceptions. Corporations will become the new governmental agencies.

Awsome!

[GMontag]

Now I have someplace to store all that Canadian pr0n!

Seems cool but..

[WiiVault]

What about battery life on both the phone and the drive? I know bluetooth has gotten alot better but what about when downloading the kind of video that is on euro and asian sets and on its way here. The concept seems really cool but the locking of American phones is sure to make its usefullness less.

Re:Seems cool but..

[KoldKompress]

Engadget says 10 hours of continuous use.
Source: Here

Re:Seems cool but..

[ScrewMaster]

the locking of American phones is sure to make its usefullness less.

... is sure to make it useless. I just bought a Samsung phone from Sprint, and the Bluetooth headset works great but that's about all you can do with the thing. Oh, you can blow "business cards" back and forth, but only one at a time, and forget about up/downloading images from the camera. Unless, of course, you want to pay more juice to Sprint for their "PCS Vision" service, which I refuse to do because I don't think I should have to pay to send my own data two feet to my PC. It is a nice phone (the camera is just a gimmick to me at 640x480) and that's all I bought it for, but the attitude of these companies irritates me.

Gagh. Honestly, the overall sleaziness of U.S. carriers is enough to make you want to throw up.

Re:Seems cool but..

[gsn]

Seagate won't, however, be making consumer drives itself: Dave is for telcos and handset OEMs for sale under their own brands. Furthermore, the package isn't merely Seagate drives and an application framework, as Dave includes proprietary technology: even with WiFi blaring and BlueTooth listening contstantly, a Dave drive offers 10 hours of active use and up to 14 days standby. Thusly-equipped drives will also work with standard computers. (emphasis mine)

RTFA seriously. Both your questions answered in two lines. The carriers won't lock you out of a device that they carry which is about the only way you will get your hands on this since Seagate won't be selling them directly. Of course that means that the retail price will include a big fat carrier markup.

And they probably won't let you use it with your PC because oh noes you could your (illegal) music on it and listen to it with your phone instead of using their overpriced service, and share it over bluetooth or WiFi even. So its usefulness is still limited. So using it as secondary service for an iPhone is straight out.

Re:Seems cool but..

[SpaceballsTheUserNam]

My advice, get a phone with a Micro SD slot. Also I switched away from sprint to the local ma bell carrier. (I HATE SPRINT) But anyway, got a nokia 6126 and having the Micro SD slot kicks ass. No more downloading ringtones or games at $5 a pop, and moving mp3s, videos, and images to and from my phone is now 100% painless, plus the gig of storage is nice too.

Re:Seems cool but..

[GetSource]

The carriers won't lock you out of a device that they carry which is about the only way you will get your hands on this since Seagate won't be selling them directly. Of course that means that the retail price will include a big fat carrier markup.

We may not have to worry about that -- what's interesting is this (from Engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/30/seagate-unveils -d-a-v-e-drive-with-bluetooth-and-wifi):
"Seagate is planning on getting this thing out in May or early June, but instead of self-branding the unit, it will be licensing the product to phone manufacturers and service providers such as Verizon, Cingular, Nokia and Motorola."

Because not only carriers are selling these, but also OEMs (as you stated), it's possible that we'll see a few pop up as "Accessories" to Motorola and Nokia phones. Since Motorola already sells some accessories that bluetooth/usable with any phone (i.e. their bluetooth headsets), it's possible that they'll sell a version that's compatible with "general phones."

GS

Re:Seems cool but..

[Jesus_666]

Of course they sell these to OEMs. There is a market outside the USA and at least in Europe mobiles and carriers are coupled less tightly than in the States. IIRC in Germany the apex of coupling is that you can get a phone for one Euro if you sign into an X month contract. After the contract's out you can continue using the phone (and indeed I do use a Nokia 6210 we got via contract; it runs on prepaid now).

If they only sold to carriers that'd mean that they make it very hard to sell these in Europe.

Re:Seems cool but..

[jafac]

In short - there will be no consumer demand for these devices because consumers will not be able to afford to USE them. (sure, I can STORE tons of data, but if you charge me $$$ per bit to move it anywhere, what fucking good is it?)

The whole reason Internet demand took off, was the very cheap and unrestricted access we all had, in the early 1990's and the rapid improvement in modem transfer speeds (until we hit the "shotgun" speed barrier - hell I can't even remember what that was, 28.8?). Then broadband came, and suddenly, people could swap more than text, and demand exploded even more. Seagate sold a BUTTLOAD of hard drives, because people were filling them up with stuff they downloaded for next to nothing.

But on the locked-down vender-controlled cell-phone network, I guaranfucking-TEE you, that this device will have NO consumer-driven demand. Like the cameras. They're on every fucking phone. Few people actually use or want them. The only difference here is -
Even if the COST of the storage is subsidized, the user "pays" for it, in the form of physical bulk and battery life. - if the user can't USE the drive, the cell phone company tries to ram it down his throat by bundling it with all phones, the user's going to go to a different carrier that has the smaller phone without the drive storage (if that choice is even possible).

They've either got to open up the bandwidth cost (for consumers) for moving data in and out of these things, or they've got to make them MUCH smaller (trivially smaller), in order for consumers to buy-into this thing. Otherwise, there will be zero demand for them.

Re:Seems cool but..

[Anonymous Coward]

then use a nokia 800

Re:Seems cool but..

[Eustace Tilley]

This device has its own WiFi and Bluetooth radios. No carrier charges apply.

worries

[SUROK]

who needs 20 gig of space on a phone anyway?
i have a 1gig MS pro duo in my phone and i cant imagine filling it without it slowing to a complete crawl eachtime i opened the videos or music section

i have about 600mb free and thats all i want to put on there because it slows down so much

Re:worries

[Vengeance_au]

Queue thousands of "640k is enough for anyone" and "I remember when my IBM XT had a 10 MEGABYTE hard disk" rejoinders.... :-)
Seriously though, a mobile with 20Gb of storage - potentially the phone can continue its trend to replace every pocket-based device under the sun. Obviously it would replace the ubiquitous USB stick, but could then compete as an integrated iPod style device, have enough storage to be a graphical GPS/google earth (yum), digital camera, etc. I already run a truecrypt'ed 1Gb usb stick as a permanent pocket filler, and find I could use more storage space but can't be bothered carrying an external 2.5" USB HDD. This would be perfect integrated with my phone, for this reason alone.

Re:worries

[Fengpost]

Just wait until they start using ARM Coretex A8, 1 GHz, quad core CPU, for the phone.

http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/102/C4788/

We will be able to enjoy pr0n everywhere we go!

Re:worries

[timmarhy]

if you can't imagine using 20 gigs with a mobile device, then you simply lack imagination.

Re:worries

[Michael Woodhams]

Queue thousands of "640k is enough for anyone" and "I remember when my IBM XT had a 10 MEGABYTE hard disk" rejoinders.... :-)

This is great! I've long been feeling oppressed by the fact that I can only fit the telephone directory of a single major city into my cell phone contacts list. Now I'll finally be able to scroll through whole country's telephone directories on a 50mm square display!

Re:worries

[glesga_kiss]

Agreed. Some games weigh in at 700meg+, sat nav maps for the UK alone are around 200meg. I've got another gig of music on my 2gb SD card and no video. Give me 20 gig and I'll fill it in a month easily.

Typo?

[Kandenshi]

less than half and inch thick

Looks like it was quoted right in the summary... Sorta.

Is this some form of American English I hadn't heard of yet, or should it be half an inch thick?

Still, I think we all got the meaning...

Security?

[Edis Krad]

Now, I haven't red TFA, but I'm hoping it has some sort of security/encryption support. What's the chance of someone in a 30ft radius peeking at the 10Gbs of data I'm carrying in my pocket, just using another cellphone?...

why not put it in the phone?

[neax]

if they can make a 20gb drive that small, why not just build them into phones. I do really need mass storage in my cell (well actually my smartphone/PDA), but one thing that i do not need is another thing to have to carry around... I look forward to the day that the phone/PDA/camera/mp3 player/video camera are all rolled into one nice device.

Re:why not put it in the phone?

[MEGAMAID]

Exactly what I was thinking. Who wants to carry around extra devices? That's not convenient at all. The more that you can put into a single reasonably sized device the better I'd say.

Re:why not put it in the phone?

[CastrTroy]

But wouldn't it be cool if you only had 1 storage device, which could be used for all your devices, such as PDA, Phone, MP3/Media Player, Camera, Laptop, along with a few others i'm probably forgetting? I think this device could be really nice if many different types of devices started to support it.

Re:why not put it in the phone?

[neax]

But wouldn't it be cool if you only had 1 storage device, which could be used for all your devices...

ummm...errr....i think that is what we meant, however, what if that 'one' storage device to use with all your other devices, was actually all of those devices rolled into one as well. ie a storage/pda/phone/mp3/video/everything device. And sure, give it the ability to hook up to other things via Wifi and you are set...

Re:why not put it in the phone?

[Namarrgon]

Sure, it's called a "laptop". Does everything, even phonecalls (with Skype or a 3G card), but it's unfortunately not that convenient.

Size and cost are limiting factors. One day UMPCs might get there, but until now a smartphone is about as close as you'll get. Of course, putting a 10-20GB HDD in a smartphone will double the size (and likely cost as well), so it's probably best to keep it a separate, optional extra for the time being.

Re:why not put it in the phone?

[Zantetsuken]

Because then if I actually need a 20GB drive for my phone, I have to go buy a new one to replace my already Bluetooth phone I just bought 2 months ago. Now I know Moore's law (think it was Moore's) says stuff is outdated 6 months after release, but for a new model phone (not the economy/free phone either), I don't think so...

This immediately came to mind.

[thedarknite]

(Knocking on door)
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's me, Dave. Open up, man, I got the stuff.
(More knocks)
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's me, Dave, man. Open up, I got the stuff.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: It's, Dave, man. Open up, I think the cops saw me come in here.
(More knocks)
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's, Dave, man. Will you open up, I got the stuff with me.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Dave, man. Open up.
CHONG: Dave?
CHEECH: Yeah, Dave. C'mon, man, open up, I think the cops saw me.
CHONG: Dave's not here.
CHEECH: No, man, I'm Dave, man.
(Sharp knocks at the door)
CHEECH: Hey, c'mon, man.
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me.
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Dave, man. Open up.
CHONG: Dave?
CHEECH: Yeah, Dave.
CHONG: Dave's not here.
CHEECH: What the hell? No, man, I am Dave, man. Will you...
(More knocks)
CHEECH: C'mon! Open up the door, will you? I got the stuff with me, I think the cops saw me.
CHONG: Who is it?
CHEECH: Oh, what the hell is it...c'mon. Open up the door! It's Dave!
CHONG: Who?
CHEECH: Dave! D-A-V-E! Will you open up the goddam door!
CHONG: Dave?
CHEECH: Yeah, Dave!
CHONG: Dave?
CHEECH: Right, man. Dave. Now will you open up the door?
CHONG: Dave's not here.

Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[schwaang]

TFA is verrry light on technical details, but even bluetooth 2.0 is something like 3Mb/s. So transfering 10GB would take what, like 2 hours?

What I'm saying is it's fine for streaming LUG Radio, but not great for backing up your pr0n to something you can leave hidden under the mattress.

Re:Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[Anonymous Coward]

but not great for backing up your pr0n to something you can leave hidden under the mattress.

Brings a whole new meaning to phone sex I guess.

Re:Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[earnest murderer]

Even if it were more capable, why would you want to carry around a 20 gig drive in your pocket? I already carry an 80 gig iPod in there the only thing it lacks is bluetooth, and only until Apple puts a drive in their iPhone... Which would pretty much eliminate the need for transmitting data to a phone for display.

Any way you cut it you've got two devices, phone and drive, or phone and iPod. And an iPod doesn't drain my phone's batteries.

Maybe someone could chime in with a use case that makes sense?

Re:Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[suv4x4]

bluetooth 2.0 is something like 3Mb/s. .... not great for backing up your pr0n ...

Is this the most compelling rant you can pull off? And do you realize bluetooth is just one option, the devices implementing DAVE can also provide USB transfer?

I suppose the only reason for bluetooth inside is because they saw some empty space in the drive left underutilized. A disk is circle, and the component is square. Catch my drift?

In a mobile device, every tiny bit of space counts, hence having built-in bluetooth makes DAVE more competitive.

Re:Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[earnest murderer]

Maybe someone could chime in with a use case that makes sense?

I think I figured it out. It's a stop gap for people who don't own iPods but own Bluetooth phones. A ghetto stop gap anyway. Maybe someone will come up with a better idea.

Re:Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[Doctor Memory]

not great for backing up your pr0n to something you can leave hidden under the mattress Kids today! Back in my day, pr0n wasn't something you backed up, you just hid it directly under the mattress. Then hoped Mom didn't want to wash the sheets...

Re:Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[MindStalker]

Obviously many phones of the future will be small and thin enough that they can't possibly hold much data. They will also include the ability to take pictures and well as function as a rudamentary PDA, thus the need to store data. Yea its kinda silly, but people seem to enjoy the ability to seperate their headsets from their phones, now you can seperate the phone from itself.. I mean its data. Mostly this is useful for a camera phone with lots of storage. Trust me, when it comes to cellphones, if you build it, they will find a use for it.

Re:Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[laird]

"do you realize bluetooth is just one option, the devices implementing DAVE can also provide USB transfer" "I suppose the only reason for bluetooth inside is because they saw some empty space in the drive left underutilized"

You've missed out on the main value of BlueTooth, which is universality. All high-end phones provide bluetooth, so they could work with DAVE devices by adding software. According to TFA that means Java, BREW (ick), Symbian, Windows Mobile, and (soon) Palm, which covers the vast majority of phones sold that are capable of playing music and video. Admittedly there will still be the issue of debugging all of the bugs in each specific phone, which isn't a minor task given how terrible telephone manufacturers are at software. But software debugging is solvable. Virtually no consumer phones provide USB, which can't be addressed except by upgrading hardware, which is a lot harder and more expensive than software.

You're right that USB is better than BlueTooth, in the universe where all phones were going to be redesigned to have USB ports and everyone was about to buy a new phone.

Re:Isn't bluetooth sloooooow?

[nasch]

Virtually no consumer phones provide USB

Huh? Don't most smartphones/pocket pc phones have mini USB ports? I've never seen a Windows phone that doesn't, anyway, and a quick check on Cingular's website shows at least some Blackberry models and looks like the Nokia E62 have it. Couldn't find one on the Treos, but I wouldn't call that collection "virtually no consumer phones".

Yay

[FunkeyMonk]

Oh goody -- now I can finally store all my phone numbers!

Energy Draining Personal Device or EDPD

[dublea]

Hmm... has anyone noticed that when one uses a bluetooth headset or OBEX for file transfer, you phone s battery life is cut by 25%. Well if that is the case, and I've seen it happen a lot due to the fact that I work in a cell phone retail store, won't such a device drain the battery of most phone in half?? What are they thinking? They might as well make tripple extended life batteries that fit in your pocket and have a cord to your phone!

Re:Energy Draining Personal Device or EDPD

[HaMMeReD3]

Maybe in a crappy phone, but think about this logically for a second.

The phone has 2 transmitters in it, a cellular one, that puts out a few watts of power, and bluetooth one, that puts out a small fraction of a watt. Sure, some phones might have horrible energy draining bluetooth implementations, but that doesn't mean that bluetooth is essentially a power hog, just that some of the implementations out there are less then ideal.

Re:Energy Draining Personal Device or EDPD

[Tony Hoyle]

The phone has 2 transmitters in it, a cellular one, that puts out a few watts of power, and bluetooth one, that puts out a small fraction of a watt.

Maybe in a phone made in 1970.

A modern phone is limited 2 watts on the cellular transmitter (which is the maximum transmission power), and even then only intermittently (they don't transmit continuously, they use 577us bursts every 4.6ms), giving an average of 0.125W.

And that's on the top of a mountain somewhere when you're miles away from a tower.

In a city, with a good connection to the tower, a phone will reduce the power output - there are 15 steps down to a mimimum of 2 milliwatts (the minimum won't be reached indoors, but should be fairly common in a city outdoors as there are towers all over the place).

OTOH Bluetooth will be transmitting between 2.5mW and 100mW. An unpaired bluetooth phone is quite likely to be using the higher end of this range... in the worst case you're looking at bluetooth using 50 times the output power of the cellular transmitter.

Hence why bluetooth drains the battery.

How open is this?

[sethstorm]

Software to hook the drives up to cellphones has already been produced for J2ME, BREW, Windows Mobile, Symbian and XCCC.
Let me guess that Verizon is going to not carry this, or they're going to make a pure revenue generator of this - by controlling how it talks to the disk.

The platform is open source...
Given how that's currently played out with phones, I'll not hold my breath on it being such.


Seagate won't, however, be making consumer drives itself: Dave is for telcos and handset OEMs for sale under their own brands. Furthermore, the package isn't merely Seagate drives and an application framework, as Dave includes proprietary technology: even with WiFi blaring and BlueTooth listening contstantly, a Dave drive offers 10 hours of active use and up to 14 days standby. Thusly-equipped drives will also work with standard computers.
As long as it's made into a standard portable disk, and accessible over bluetooth, fine. With that in mind, there should be no problems using this in Linux or just as a pocket disk drive if the data formats are unencumbered.

If the iPhone supports enough features of this to use it and the Java applet that comes with, you might have a way to get those third party applets through.

Another thought would be to use it to store unlocking applications for multiple phones (that support such).

Quite

[EmbeddedJanitor]

If it is much more than a phone, then you want a reasonable screen etc. Once you start messing with hard drives, the whole usage scenario changes and you need to start thinking of charging the puppy every night.

Re:Quite

[joshetc]

Hmm I charge my phone every night. I don't plan on using it while I sleep so why not make sure the battery is full in the morning?

iPod is the natural medium for this

[Chairboy]

With iPhone sales potentially eating into the high-end iPod market, I think it's probably safe to assume that future HD based iPods will come with Bluetooth. Not for synchronizing, but to be remote storage devices for things like the iPhone.

It's a clever way for Apple to keep selling the big iPods, and opens up other possibilities. Last year I speculated here about cell phones serving as 'cockpit voice recorders' for life, the main obstacle being storage and battery life. With something like this, one down, one to go.

Re:iPod is the natural medium for this

[Anonymous Coward]

Last year I speculated here about cell phones serving as 'cockpit voice recorders' for life,

Sounds like PIM + interface to photos, music, video. I guess the big question is, where is the storage, and how do you access it?

For some things (e.g. calendar), it makes sense to have a service on the internet administered by someone else, like a Microsoft Exchange server, or like Google Calendar + Gmail + Google Whatever.

But for other uses (video, high resolution photos, music collection) the bandwidth and server space isn't there yet, so you'd rather devote at least 80 GB of your own hard drive space.

Eventually someone will come up with a good solution to this. So far the iPhone seems not to be it, because it doesn't look like it will interface well with local storage. Anyway, I hope the most popular solution will be based on open standards. But so far this is not an area where Open Source development has been leading the way... or even following at a distance.

Slow...

[ap0]

Can you imagine transferring 20GB over Bluetooth? The battery would die at about the 50MB mark...

That's what caused HAL to malfunction

[ICantHearYourMusicAn]

HAL *does* have DRM, but you haven't been told about it. HAL is torn between its design objectives (to serve the crew) and its secret instructions (a mission objective). This causes it to go mad and kill the crew. The sad part about it is that everyone except Dave will die. To continue this rather tortured analogy further, the phone companies have given your phone (HAL) secret instructions which place the mission objectives (DRM) above the crew (you). The final result is that both the mission will fail, and you will be disadvantaged.

Re:That's what caused HAL to malfunction

[Anonymous Coward]

In space, nobody can hear you scream... about the fucking DRM.

Re:That's what caused HAL to malfunction

[Alan Partridge]

Not true, both HAL and Dave are reborn on a higher plane, as I suspect your Windows Mobile device might be if it had a better OS installed on it.

Re:That's what caused HAL to malfunction

[ThePengwin]

So thats where the RIAA and MPAA have gone :D

Re:That's what caused HAL to malfunction

[RockDoctor]

[comment about going to a higher plane]

So thats where the RIAA and MPAA have gone :D

The only higher plane that MPAA (and RIAA, the people who thought up region-coding for DVDs and such like retards) are on is regularly shedding wing parts, engines, chunks of undercarriage, and generally approaching the aerodynamics of a brick.

How did Douglas Adam's whale put it? "What's that big round thing coming up to meet me? It needs a big round word, like `ground`. That's it, I'll call it the ground. I wonder if it'll be friendly?"

Good for use in dictatorships

[Anonymous Coward]

With digital cameras during political demonstrations.

It would let activists take pictures of police brutality, with the actual images quietly stored in the back pocket of a nearby buddy.

Agere BluOnyx?

[Namarrgon]

So how is this different from the Agere BluOnyx, announced 6 weeks ago? Looks remarkably similar to me.

Oh right. "DAVE Technology" is designed to hook seamlessly into the geek propensity for 2001 jokes. "BluOnyx" is clearly a rushed-to-market moniker which misses its target market completely.

What really IS the size, anyway?

[Namarrgon]

"Credit-card sized" is an abused term these days. And the Seagate press release is self-contradictory:

The DAVE reference design is about the size of a centimeter-thick credit card, with dimensions of 3.5 x 4.7 x .47 inches (61 x 89 x 12 mm) and weighing only 2.5 ounces (70 grams)

So which is it? 3.5 x 4.7 inches (89 x 120mm), or 61 x 89mm (2.4 x 3.5 inches)? The latter sounds more credit-card sized to me.

Supports wifi b/g

[Namarrgon]

54 Mb/s ought to be enough for anyone's pr0n.

I don't think that's the point, though. Who's going to transfer 10GB to or from their phone, in one go? It's just for a file archive you can access or stream from, music/video or docs or GPS maps etc. The bulk filling or backup would be done via USB2 to a PC, most likely.

Actually, it also supports USB On-The-Go, which will be handy for some devices like digital cameras and phones like the HTC Universal. The BluOnyx is a similar device, but has even less details - apparently they're "working on USB OTG" as well.

iPhone? Who cares? More importantly....

[Anonymous Coward]

How many hours will it take those of us with openmoko phones to add support for DAVE?

Regressing technology

[friedman101]

So we have a device with a practically global broadband internet connection and we need a 20 gig HD to lop on the side for our contacts and music? I can't wait for the day when all the disk space the average consumer needs (see: non tin-foil hat wearer) can be located on a server farm in Kansas. Eventually all a computer/cellphone needs will be enough memory to load an OS and connect to the internet.

Re:Regressing technology

[maxume]

4GB SD is available today. SDHC is going to take that higher. They keep getting faster too. If I can carry around that much data and not worry about connectivity(getting it, paying for it, waiting for it), I'm going to. It isn't quite there for primary storage if you want your whole music collection there or whatever, but 8 Gigabytes is a pretty practical size for 'some music to carry around' and so forth and my non music, non video data is less than 2 gigabytes; some people are going to have a lot more than that, but not that many.

If the network is basically instantaneous and nearly free, it will win the competition with local storage, but it isn't quite there yet, and doesn't seem to be anything that is going to happen all that soon(especially the nearly free).

Re:Regressing technology

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

I'll take one. I can store music and video on it and play it all over my Nokia 770, which only has a 2GB flash card in it (RS-MMC).

Yeah, if iPods ever get Bluetooth & wifi

[Namarrgon]

Until then, this is a good way to beef up the storage of your smartphone.

Maybe sales of this will prompt Apple to add BT etc to future iPods. Maybe Apple are already planning to announce this next month, to "further revolutionise the phone industry". Maybe that's a team of Apple lawyers I hear, knocking at my door.

Re:Yeah, if iPods ever get Bluetooth & wifi

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have BT in your iPod, do you even need a phone in your iPod?

You should be able to have a small dumbphone with bluetooth that can be paired with an A2DP headset and with a widescreen iPod. This iPod also would pair with the headset to play music. Then you never need to actually touch the phone... just keep it way down in your pocket or your purse. Under normal use, you would dial the phone and answer incoming calls using the iPod, or you could also use the headset with voice control.

The least expensive version of this iPod-aware dumbphone would have a small monochrome LCD, keypad, and microphone and speaker, so you could use it as a standalone phone in a pinch. But it would be dirt cheap to make, so it could be sold free with 2-year contract.

Yeah, it would mean having to carry two devices and remembering to charge them, and so on. But you could have your up to 80 GB of storage without the awkward solution of carrying both an iPhone and an iPod. And this dumbphone + widescreen iPod together could be sold for $399 with contract for a very hefty profit.

I guess the problem is, even Steve Jobs would have a hard time making it look cool and ungeeky.

Just what I need...

[l3prador]

More moving parts that can break in my mobile phone.

Thin network client

[Namarrgon]

Sure. The CPU won't be up to heavier tasks, but there's no reason it can't display a remote desktop on your home server for that.

I'm almost at that stage right now with my Hermes, to where I don't need my laptop as much anymore. With the right data plan & HSDPA/wifi I don't even need a local HDD. Built-in or BT keyboard is fine, the only thing that's lacking is the display - a mini-HDMI connector or built-in laser projector would enable a whole new class of computing.

Re:Thin network client

[name*censored*]

Likely the PC will become a sort of a "light server" in the futuristic world of ultra-mobile computing - a speciality product for businesses (and nerds). Since there will obviously be a void for processing(as parent mentions)/hard disk space requirements between these new ultra-mobile devices and full sized servers (the type full-sized businesses would use), I'm guessing that's where the PC will end up.

As for laptops/notebooks, who knows? The only thing they'd have on these ultra-mobile devices is that you can actually type as you would a desktop (much more comfortable), which could be remedied by mainstreaming some very imaginative leaps in UI (projection keyboards, paper thin/foldable keyboards, motion tracking glove-and-vr-helmet combinations (to make a "virtual" keyboard), non keyboarded interfaces such as voice/thought/etc even!)

20 gb???

[Anonymous Coward]

johnny mnemonic, eat your heart out!

Sounds familiar

[Helvidius]

I remember back in '98-'99 when I was a systems admin at a company in Phoenix that we had two Macs (OS 8.6 I think) that needed to use network storage and printer shares on our NT network. Originally I hooked them up through Linux, but then our graphic artists found a software program called "Dave" that allowed the Macs to work seamlessly with Windows networks. This new "Dave" sounds like the old "Dave" in new clothes.

Of course, that's just my opinion--then again, I could be wrong.

what I *don't* get

[RMH101]

is *how* this'll be used. I've never seen a handset that'll connect to a network share over bluetooth, although I could have missed it. How are you going to receive files from it?

Java applet

[Namarrgon]

According to the PR, pairing with the device pushes a java applet to the phone that allows you to browse the drive's filesystem, do file management, presumably push or stream files to the phone etc. Wifi connections may be more advanced, who knows.

Re:Java applet

[RMH101]

Nice! Thanks for the tip, explains a lot.

Freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless they also include the freedom to install what I want, without silly restrictions or
crippling by the phone carrier, I would have to say no.

To find out why, make a mockup

[wiredog]

Make a box the width and height of a CC, and 1 cm thick, and weigh it to match what this thing will weigh. Then tape it to your cell. Then you'll know why it's not built in to a phone.

GAH!

[Stevecrox]

My final year project is a very similar device, I've redesigned the MP3 open source project from http://www.pjrc.com/ then using the Compact Flash drive and a Sony Erricson Bluetooth Starter Kit (uses an old rok chip.) I spent 3 months researching to make sure the idea was original and some other company beats me to the punch line.

Does this mean

[stud9920]

Does this mean we'll have to put our cell phones in lockers when entering churches ?

Apple might be the problem there.

[Kadin2048]

I dont see why it wouldnt work. Its bluetooth and the platform is open.

But the iPhone isn't, so that's where the problem would occur. It's really about whether Apple would let people use external storage, not whether the external storage will work with standards-compliant devices.

Add-on for the Wii Anyone...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not introduce this Bluetooth HDD as an accessory for the Wii. That would be a great way to expanded the Wii's capacity for downloadable content (VC Games) and it'd even be one less difference between the other next-gen consoles and itself.

One Question

[Nom du Keyboard]

Will this work for file and music sharing with the rest of the people on the bus (subway, train, other form of mass transit)? All you close -- meaning in this case closer than 30 feet -- friends, that is?

Treo

[blackmonday]

Slightly offtopic I know, but my I bought a little app for the Treo called Card Export, and it turns the Treo's SD card into a plain jane mass storage device. USB only, but it's saved me a few times. Combined with a retractable cable, its a nice plus for the phone.

This is a device that can change things

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

Imagine carrying this around in your pocket in Latveria with a shared directory "Police Brutality Videos/" or "Victor is a loser.gif". You'd be hard to catch: the hardest part of radio direction finding is the last few meters, you could stand near RF-reflective surfaces, and you could simply move on when someone shows up with direction finding equipment. The storm troopers might resort to slamming everyone in the area to the pavement and searching them, so wear an expensive suit and carry a card that says "Please extend the bearer every courtesy --VvD". If another dissident comes within range, you've passed along your samizdat without the risk of an actual meeting: neither of you needs to know the other. And talk about easy to conceal... Just seal it in a blister pack and put it at the back of the rack at Best Buy.

'Just' a phone?

[ShadowBot]

If your going to make a mobile, just make one. I just want my phone to have calling capability, address book, and maybe a browser.

Ah yes, I remember the good old days! When a phone was just something you could make calls on, store the names and addresses of everyone you know and some people you don't, check your emails and maybe download a bittorrent or two.

Whatever happened to pure simplicity?