Repair Computer, Repurchase OS?

An anonymous reader asks: "Recently, I have been bit by a computer repair on an e-Machines computer that involved a system board replacement. Though this was strictly a repair, not an upgrade, neither MS or e-Machines will provide for activation of the system. Why should a user have to purchase another copy of XP after repairing a computer? The system board is listed on the e-Machines website, but costs 4x what an off-the-shelf board with the same chip-set/capabilities costs, and furthermore is not actually available. The e-Machines rep even said repurchasing XP was my only option. This seems to me patently unfair and of questionable legality. Is it possible that there are enough disgruntled consumers bit by this problem to generate a class-action lawsuit?"

Comments

Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[Randolpho]

Seriously, have you talked to Microsoft yet? I've had the same or similar problems in the past, and had no trouble getting a new key issued. Just call them up. They might surprise you.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto. It's easy and takes around 15 minutes - call the 800 number that the activation screen presents to you, put in the number that it gives you, wait for it to say it cannot activate it and for it to bring on a real person for further help, explain what happened and they'll provide you a number for that. Works like a charm for me.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[FoamingToad]

Agreed. Talk to them. What does the OP have to lose?

In fact I recently had a pretty identical case to the original poster's query. A friend's e-machine had a blown mobo + processor due to a faulty PSU. I changed the parts across, booted, hit the product activation, phoned the Freephone support number and I didn't even need to speak to a person - the IVR system doled out a new activation code with no hassle.

Admittedly, if the activation hadn't gone as planned I'd just have dug out my VLK edition and performed an in-place upgrade...

F_T

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[Anonymous Coward]

I deal with this frequently.

Try to activate online
When it rejects and gives you the phone number, call it
Enter the confirmation ID

When you finally get someone from Bangladesh on the phone, they will ask if this is the first time it's been activated, and how many computers it's been installed on.

REGARDLESS of what work you've done, tell them "It's a reinstall after a virus infection.. This is the only machine it's installed on"

They'll give you a long ass number to punch in, and you're done.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[morgan_greywolf]

You're right.

The article poster might want to refer to this page on computer repair, which covers the OEM license. Generally, Microsoft will not require a new OS license for a motherboard replacement that is truly a replacement (i.e., same OEM/model). If you're trying to replace the box with a non-OEM motherboard, you're hosed, because this is not in compliance with the OEM license agreement, which is different from the retail EULA.

If you're replacing with the same/equivalent OEM motherboard, then just state immediately that the repair/upgrade was made in compliance with the OEM EULA right away, as this will save you a lot of time and hassle.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[Jesterboy]

One thing is, the people in India handling the activation really don't care too much, and, as long as you don't volunteer certain information, will happily hand out the magic 42 digit number that makes everything work. I've even used this to transfer an XP OEM license to an entirely different computer (shhh!).

However, it sounds like the problem is coming from the install media; perhaps a partition on the drive that copies over a disk image, or maybe an OEM install that checks for the correct hardware? I think the best thing to do would be to go download/find/borrow a real Windows XP disk of the correct "flavor"; probably Home, possibly Media Center, etc. If he does have the actual disk, he could try creating a pre-install environment using BartPE and then adding in the extra drivers for his mobo, but it's probably better to just find a disk.

Once he actually gets it installed, he'll probably have trouble activating it, which will involve calling Microsoft and going through the following song and dance:
1. Give the computer your product key.
2. It will fail, and transfer you to a representative.
3. They ask for the last 6 digits you gave to the automated system; give it to them and state you are reinstalling Windows XP.
4. They will ask you several questsions, answer as follows:
a) Is it installed only on this computer? Yes.
b) Did you pirate the software or (sometimes) are you using the same OEM disk? Yes.
c) Are you reinstalling Windows XP? Yes.

Usually at this point they will give you the magic 42 digit number to make your computer yours again. Occasionally, they will ask about hardware upgrades, in which case you have two options: 1) tell them the truth and don't get your copy to activate, or 2) outright lie. If your scruples won't let you do the latter, you can tell the representative you have something else to go do (probably true), and call back later, hoping for a less diligent employee. As I stated above, I've used this process to switch Windows XP Home OEM licenses to computers with entirely different hardware, so I can't imagine a motherboard giving you too much trouble.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[gEvil (beta)]

b) Did you pirate the software or (sometimes) are you using the same OEM disk? Yes.

Sounds like a brilliant plan.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[WED Fan]

I smell serious BS on this one.

I have 3 machines with various flavors of XP. Each has undergone significant upgrade, update, repair in the past 5 years. At no time have I had to re-purchase the O.S.

I was able to move an install of XP from a dead desktop to a laptop and then a year later, back to a new desktop (I installed Linux, temporarily on the laptop before ditching it). All it took was a phone call each time and an explanation of why I was moving the install.

This person is, either:

• Lying about the whole thing in an effort to flamebait an MS discussion
• Bought the eMachine from someone with a pirated copy of the OS
• Purposely installed a pirated copy that he may/may not have paid for
• Is not diligent enough to actually deal with MS
• Is dealing with a brain dead computer store pseudo-geek (really, if they are that good, they can get a much better job, the computer store geek is to real geeks what MacDonald cooks are to Chefs)
• Just a liar

Even a /. editor should have spotted this one.

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[ThatsNotFunny]

Just hit random numbers until you get a real person. Or punch the keypad a few times with your fists. At least that way you can get out some of the frustration while you're at it. :D

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[FoamingToad]

I thought it was 6 * 7 = 42 digits, this may be why you're failing. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I found that the system had a bit of trouble recognising two subsequent instances of the same digit, and slowed down my input a bit. Sure, it was a bit tedious, but got an activation code from the IVR just fine. However I did notice the automated line was more than a bit glitchy with dropouts and distortion on the line - it's the type of thing the telco I used to work for wouldn't have considered acceptable.

F_T

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[dapsychous]

You don't even have to hit random numbers. Just press '0' (zero, for you arabic number-ly challenged folks) when it asks you if you are calling to activate windows xp. it won't work unless it has asked you a question.

That, or openly ridicule voice recognition systems. Maybe you'll hurt it's feelings and it won't want to talk to you anymore?

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[geobeck]

Or punch the keypad a few times with your fists.

Nah, that doesn't work. You just get "The fingers you are using to dial with are too fat. To order a special dialing wand, mash the keypad now."

Re:Have you actually talked to Microsoft?

[Mister Whirly]

Your backup image won't work if certain hardware (motherboard, processor, etc.) has changed. If your hard drive dies, no sweat. But if anything major fails, you are SOL.

IIRC....

[Churla]

If I recall correctly there are ways to get around this by calling actual MS support. Usually this involves being the "bullying customer" some. But they will do an over the phone registration. I had to do this when I had to replace the MB in my mother-in-laws computer.

P.S. - This should also blossom into a beautiful flame war, I would recommend hot cocoa with marshmallows for viewing it.

They have no way of knowing.

[phorest]

They simply have no way of knowing.

That's always a problem with OEM OS loads.This Quick Reference Should clear up some issues for those who are not already aware.

I always figure in a new OEM copy whenever a board goes. You'll waste more time than is neccessary to try to save $139.00, but you saved a lot of money buying that replacement board from NewEgg. It sucks but other than sending it to (in this case EMachines) neither Microsoft -or- EMachines have no idea what happened to your hardware that your OEM OS is tied to.

Call for an activation code...

[VitrosChemistryAnaly]

I've had copies of XP that MS wouldn't activate over the web. What did I do? Call the number they give you. The customer rep will ask why you need to re-activate XP. I just say that I did a reinstall. That's it. I've never had problems the 10 or so times that I've done it.

Have you actually called MS? It's pretty friggin' easy.

Ask to talk to their manager

[halivar]

It's amazing what you can get if you just bitch enough. Sometimes it's easier just to add another activation to a license to shut someone up.

It depends....

[jizziknight]

If it was a direct replacement of the board (same model number, chipset, etc.) and the hard drive was not affected by the repairs (you didn't have to wipe the drive for some reason), you shouldn't need to reinstall the OS at all. If you installed a different board than the original, you might be SOL. If it were me, I'd plug the drive back in and boot up and see what happens. You might get lucky and everything would work fine.

Now if it's a WGA problem, that's a different story. You'll have to call Microsoft up for that one. Assuming you're not an ass when you call up, you shouldn't have much problem getting them to issue you a new key or something.

Re:FUD

[notanatheist]

in the US it is 888-571-2048. I think. Haven't had to dial it today yet so no phone in front of me. When the stupid recording is done talking press '0'. Tell the beehotch to "transfer you anyway" so you can get a live person from India. Be very up front about the process and take no slack. Give them th 42 digits a nice firm 6 at a time so they can understand you. Before they ask you anything tell them it is the only PC it is on and you have to activate because you replaced the motherboard. They will sometimes ask again what you just told them. Whatever info you give them up front will typically reduce the other stupid questions like them asking what kind of computer it is, where did you buy it, what is the 25 character product key, etc.. Keep in mind they have no idea what your system is and what stores there are to buy from so if you get those questions you can answer any way you like. Name of computer? PEBKAC. Store? JoMommas. Simple as that. I have to do it nearly everyday with the number of computers I repair.

Read your license agreement.

[Anonymous Coward]

You should do whatever your license agreement says you should do.

If you can't understand your license agreement, get a lawyer to help you read it.

If you don't like what it says, get a different OS vendor.

And please don't mod me down for trolling - it really is important for people to understand the licenses for the stuff they buy - otherwise groups like the RIAA can walk all over everyone. If people started taking EULAs seriously and tried to understand them, more companies would start using reasonable EULAs.

Re:Read your license agreement.

[Intron]

ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg decided this in 1996, even for an EULA that was not visible at the time of purchase. Great when the store won't accept returns of software that has been opened.

Time for a new computer

[SeaSolder]

So, if the replacement MoBo costs about 4x what other boards cost, then it is likely in the multiple-hundreds of dollars to replace the thing. My suggestion would tell eMachines to go to "the hot place downstairs", and purchase a new computer from one of the larger manufacturers. You can get them relatively inexpensively, and hey, you could even get one loaded with that abomination called Vista! On another note, you could also repair the computer, and use it to play around with Linux. I have noticed though, that a number of the budget manufacturers don't even include recovery disks with their computers, but rather they have a "recovery partition" on the hard drive. So this is all well and good, until the HD crashes, and your recovery partition is gone. I suppose this is just another case of "You get what you pay for".

Just pirate it

[Rix]

It's less work.

Re:Just pirate it

[the eric conspiracy]

In fact the ease of doing the illegal thing is probably slowing the uptake of Linux. If Microsoft were to become even more aggressive in enforcing its licensing provisions, and as well increasing OS prices, we would no doubt see more people and organizations turning to Linux.

The trend seems to favor this; every time I see a news item on Slashdot along these lines I give a small cheer. Let's hope that MS and DRM really make stealing Vista a much bigger big pain in the neck.

Re:increments

[PFI_Optix]

My current XP license was originally installed on this:

Intel D850MD motherboard
Intel Pentium 4 2.2 Ghz CPU
512 MB Rambus
Radeon 7000
80 GB Western Digital HDD
CD-RW
DVD-ROM

I then replaced the motherboard with a Soyo P4S Dragon Ultra (or something like that) and bought generic DDR RAM.
Then I bought a GeForce 5200 FX
When my motherboard's AGP port got flaky, I replaced it with a Soyo P4S-D
Then I added an Adaptec 1200A and two Seagate 120 MB HDDs on RAID 0 and reinstalled my OS on them
When my 5200FX was damaged by THAT AGP port getting flaky, I bought an Abit IC7-MaxIII and went with a different Radeon 7000 due to budget constraints.
I finally got around to getting a better CPU--a P4 3.0E and switched to high-end Corsair RAM.
Then I bought a Radeon X850 Pro as the last semi-high-end component to go in this system prior to a planned upgrade and switch to Vista this summer.

Some time In there I replaced my optical drives with a DVD+-RW, and several small hard drives have been in and out to back up data as I changed partitioning schemes twice.

I've had to call MS three times to have the license reactivated. All three times I've explained that I was replacing bad components or upgrading various things, and all three times they've not given me any grief on reactivation. The anonymous submitter is either doing something wrong, is clueless, or is trolling.

Re:increments

['nother poster]

Well, since many motherboards also supply your network and video IDs then a MB swap changes quite a few "major components" as far as XPs key checker is concerned.

Not an activation issue

[Joe5678]

Judging from all the people telling him to get a new activation key from Microsoft, the summary isn't very clear, but this guys problem isn't an activation issue (I think). It's the fact that his OEM Windows disc will not load because it's now detecting that it's not an e-machines computer anymore. e-machines is the problem here.

Re:Not an activation issue

[Loki_1929]

You're probably right, but he's still not completely out of luck. If he can get his hands on a Windows XP disc that's the same version (ie Home/Pro, same SP number included, etc) as what was originally installed, he should be able to use the OEM key included with the machine to get Windows installed. He'll then have to call Microsoft and tell them the hard drive went bad, mainboard was replaced, etc, and he should have a fully functional standalone Windows XP installation.

Vis-a-vis the licensing, Microsoft can blow it out their ass. You purchase a license to run Windows XP when you buy the system, meaning you've paid money to Microsoft. Microsoft can throw all the legalese garbage into the EULA that they like and a court will tell them just where to stick it if they try going after someone doing what I just described above.

Re:Not an activation issue

[FoamingToad]

You may have a point - although what was said above is still worth a try. The e-machine I had in received an OEM board - and changed processor architecture (Celeron -> Socket 939 AMD). However I just booted the machine up "to see what would happen" - to my surprise after an extra few minutes of thrashing the disc, the machine was up and asking for reactivation.

If it had required a rebuild, I may have looked at my 7-in-1 disc or the VLK edition, but as it happened no reinstallation was necessary - XP recovered itself sufficiently.

However I concede the point that you usually need to do an in-place upgrade when changing such a major part of your hardware environment.

F_T

Re:Not an activation issue

[Endo13]

You're probably right, but he's still not completely out of luck. If he can get his hands on a Windows XP disc that's the same version (ie Home/Pro, same SP number included, etc) as what was originally installed, he should be able to use the OEM key included with the machine to get Windows installed. He'll then have to call Microsoft and tell them the hard drive went bad, mainboard was replaced, etc, and he should have a fully functional standalone Windows XP installation. Actually, it's even easier than that. All he needs do is get his hands on an OEM disk for whatever version of XP he has a key for (most likely XP Home). XP install keys differentiate only between Home, Pro, or Media Center, and then between OEM or Retail. Nothing else matters. I work at a PC repair shop, and I've reinstalled WinXP on Dells, HPs, Compaqs, Emachines, and more very often. I use the same disks for all of them, unless the customer happens to have the disks (or restore partion on the hard drive) provided them by the manufacturer.

When it comes to activation, it will most likely tell you that your product key is invalid. I'm not sure exactly why (my best guess is that they use some kind of generic volume key when they install it the first time), but all you need to is click the "Telephone" button, hit the drop-down menu for your country, and then dial the toll-free number provided. (1-888-571-2048 for USA) You'll get an automated system that blathers on until it finally says "ok, let's get started." At this point, hit 0 on your phone (the system will tell you something like "I see you would like to talk to a representative blah blah blah"), then hit 1. This will connect you to a live human (in India I believe) who can talk more or less plain English, and at any rate understands the numbers you tell them a great deal better than the automated system does. They'll ask you for the first 6 numbers, tell you they need a few seconds to validate it, then they'll ask you some questions. (What software are you activating today? Is this the first time you are activating this software? On how many other computers is this software installed?) After one or two of these questions they'll ask you for the rest of the numbers (you don't need to read the first 6 again). Then they'll say they need a few seconds to validate those, and ask you a couple of the questions (which may or may not be the exact same questions they asked you 30 seconds earlier). Then they'll read off the confirmation numbers 3 at a time, which you'll type in the boxes, and that's pretty much it.

Re:Not an activation issue

[C10H14N2]

Yep. A good number of people don't seem to grasp that by getting Windows pre-loaded, they've not purchased a Windows license, their manufacturer has, ergo why it is tied to the specific hardware and you don't get an install disk, you get a "recovery" disk, if anything at all. You can't "RE-purchase the OS" if you never really purchased it in the first place.

I wish they'd give the option of OEM install or blank system with retail box version, but nooooo, rather than your first act of ownership being spending an hour installing the OS, you end up spending an hour UN-installing all the crappy OEM bullshit, trialware and advertising.

Re:Not an activation issue

[Fez]

Even better: The phone system says to *tell* it the numbers, but the numbers on the phone keypad work. They even work for yes/no 1=yes, 2=no. I hate, hate, hate voice recognition systems. Being able to just push the digits like mad is much easier, and speeds the process way up.

After punching in the numbers, the system still fails to activate -- because Microsoft locks major brand OEM keys to a single automated activation -- but then you do not have to repeat all 50-brazillion digits vocally to the person on the other end.

I'm not sure where Microsoft's call center is for that, but I suspect they have several. Once I got into a queue where the recording and the person on the other end both had very British accents.

And now back to the topic at hand: I've seen many motherboards replaced in OEM PCs, and never had a problem getting a key from Microsoft, but I also used generic OEM media and not the CD provided by the manufacturer.

Easy compared to what?

[babbling]

When you say it's "easy", are you aware that previous versions of Windows didn't even need a special key that depended on hardware, and that you didn't need to call Microsoft to ask "can I please install the copy of Windows I purchased from you a couple of years ago?" only to be interrogated about why you need a new key.

I'm sure it's easy relative to what they could put you through, but can we please be absolute when using the word "easy"? Especially when Microsoft have gone out of their way to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Balthisar]

>>but can we please be absolute when using the word "easy"?

Actually, speaking absolutely, it *is* easy. Relatively speaking (in relation to how we think it should be) is when it becomes difficult.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[n2art2]

You cannot be absolute with a relative word. The use of the word "easy" is an opinion and thus relative to the one making that opinion. I'm not a fan of Microsoft, but can we please not berate the grandparent for his use of the word "easy" when you obviously want to attribute it to a state of absolute that the word itself cannot attain.

Meaning. . . . Get over it.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Buran]

Not only that but what about hearing-impaired people like me who find the phone an aggravation and want to be able to do it all online because it's a lot easier to read than it is to listen? Why can't we use the OS' automated activation tools? Why are we in some cases forced to call?

Seems to me like someone might have a good ADA case here -- why should I not be allowed to use something legally purchased because I am forced to jump through hoops that I can't jump through because of a physical disability? To me, this is as bad as a failure to install a wheelchair ramp.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus, the windows activation screen provides you with a TTY number to call if you are deaf.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't it great that the dishonest people with the pirated copies never have to worry about their activation keys? It's just the folks that do things the right way that get hosed.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Second, such actions would not be necessary if people didn't make illegal, unauthorized copies of software to use, sell, trade, or give away. Perhaps if people were more honest, such things would not be necessary. Personally, I find it funny that anyone complains, as such things have been going on since the early 80s.

Perhaps we're basing our business model on a level of honesty that doesn't exist in human beings?

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Blakey Rat]

And what if halfway through the call, suddenly an asteroid falls into their living room and then their phone line is cut off!

Seriously, I know Slashdotters are anti-social and hate talking to people, but can the damned excuses. Either you can use a phone, or you can use TTY. You can come up with crazy situations all day long, but it all comes down to that.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Gr8Apes]

>>but can we please be absolute when using the word "easy"?

Actually, speaking absolutely, it *is* easy. Relatively speaking (in relation to how we think it should be) is when it becomes difficult. Actually, it's unbelievably complicated. Why do I need to call anyone when installing software? Needless complications imposed by the manufacturer is why.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Buran]

And count on them to get something like this right? They won't. Besides, the whole point of online activation is that that's not necessary. Forcing calls is just unacceptable, and just adds one more reason on the "why I won't use their software" pile.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[644bd346996]

Oh, come on! Even for people with good hearing, understanding sombody in a loud call center in bangalore is hard. For somebody who uses a hearing aid, it can easily be impossible to communicate bidirectionally. And there are many people who have hearing aids but do not have access to a TTY. This is a realistic scenario, and one that microsoft must be prepared for. Remember, Microsoft chose to use activation. It is solely their responsibility to make it accessible to their customers.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[MightyYar]

So THAT'S why ATMs don't consist of just a big pile of money and a clipboard...

Re:Easy compared to what?

[doctor proteus]

Good point. I work on a blue water sailing vessel with three or four PCs and it is an absolute nightmare if we need to reinstall windows or even adobe creative suite whilst in the middle of the Atlantic. Not to mention data calls are either too slow to do online activation, or cost $14 per minute for single channel ISDN. On top of that we go through so many hard drives due to the boats constant slamming and movement that we are often asked why we have activated so many time in the past. All I can think is why do we have to spend even more money on satcom charges to install licensed software?

Inevitable solution? (Other than decent backups) simply use a pirated copy and WGA crack. A sad state of affairs indeed.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[KevinKnSC]

How about installing and activating everything in port, and then just backup the partition with g4u or the System Rescue CD? Then, if you do ever need to reinstall it, you just restore your already activated partition from a burned DVD? It's legal, faster, and is a much better way to do things even if you always have a highspeed connection.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[justfred]

Thus we have the inherent problem of most, if not all DRM - it makes things harder and more annoying for legitimate users, while crackers/thieves/mass copiers will easily find a way around it.

Personally I have less of a moral problem "stealing" things that are locked down, than things that are opened up. I pay for shareware and most of my entertainment. But having to jump through hoops to run Windows? That's why I recommend Unix or MacOSX. That and the fact that they're so superior.

Maybe Microsoft could spent more time properly engineering their software in the first place to make it worth buying, and less time trying to keep legitimate owners from "stealing" it?

Re:Easy compared to what?

[cp.tar]

The moral of the story: steal Windows.

It's not worth the money anyway.

But it's a funny world we live in, where stealing seems to bring you elss trouble than buying - and that's leaving money out of the equation.

I mean, really... if you buy Windows, you didn't really buy it as such. You bought a license to use it on one computer under the exact conditions provided by Microsoft, take it or leave it.
If you steal it, however... why, you don't have a worry in your life (BSA is not all-powerful, after all) - not only do you steal a license, but you steal so much that you can disregard the license altogether. Hey, you stole it, you might as well steal all the way.

Which only goes to prove: if you know something about computers, one way or the other, you'll stop paying for software.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[suckmysav]

"Personally, I find it funny that anyone complains, as such things have been going on since the early 80s."

Personally, I find it funny ironic that Microsoft attained their present state of near-monopoly on the backs of the very pirates that they are now working so hard to close down.

I find it even more ironic that they choose to be much more lenient towards piracy in the developing world where they have still not managed to attain the state of vendor lock-in that is required in order for them to successfully pursue more onerous anti-piracy measures without running the risk of turning their future potential customers towards alternatives such as Linux.

Microsoft, eating their cake and having it too!

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Discordantus]

Which only goes to prove: if you know something about computers, one way or the other, you'll stop paying for software.

I've come to the point where I consider paying for multimedia and software an altruistic act. I'll pay for software or music if I feel I should support whoever is getting that money. So I still pay for some shareware, and purchase content from the artists. But that's pretty much it.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[cheater512]

I know people who buy XP and then install a pirated version just because its far easier.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[try_anything]

making a phone call and talking to someone for a few minutes is not actually hard

If that were true, we'd all be out flirting with girls instead of fiddling with our computers and posting on Slashdot.

(Just kidding, in a yeah-but-maybe-there's-something-to-it way.)

Re:Easy compared to what?

[KingOfBLASH]

Dude....

1. Upgrade your computer
2. Call up Microsoft.
3. Sue their sorry asses
4. Profit!!!!!

Re:Easy compared to what?

[marcosdumay]

What is kind of ironical (or dumb, you choose), since people pirate it regardless of protection. And pirated copies are better than original, since they don't require activation.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[HeroreV]

I'm gay you insensitive clod!

And I guess there might be a few straight females too.

Re:Easy compared to what?

[Herby Sagues]

Easy compared to installing an operating system (ANY operating system). Easy compared to sending the machine for repair. Easy compared to fixing the machine or replacing the motherboard. Easy compared to installing Windows 95 (yes, installign XP is WAY easier than installing 95, even including the phone call). NOT easy compared to starting a discussion claiming that Microsoft has not given you a solution when you didn't even pick up the phone. You just waited for the tooth fairy to come and fix the problem for you.

Re:Solution can be found here:

[P3NIS_CLEAVER]

I had exactly the same problem with my emachine and instead of going through all the headaches I had a coworker burn me a copy of SUSE.

You are screwed..

[daniel422]

I just went through this fiasco while repairing a mobo failure on an HP Media Center PC. As with most OEM PCs these days it came pre-installed with everything and featured only a recovery disk (disc image) for system restore. Changing, upgrading, or altering many of the components onboard (particularly the motherboard) will result in this disk becoming useless. If you read Microsoft's ifo regarding OEM distributions -- they are totally OK with this. THe OEM is only required to provide a recovery disk that lives and dies with the computer (which is practically defined as the motherboard). The OEM install and recovery disks are keyed to some identifier in the motherboard, which requires some hacking to use. I wound up purchasing a new OEM version of Media Center (since they don't make a regular version) from NewEgg and reinstalling everything.
I was pretty pissed. I felt like I had paid for this OS in the first place, I should have the right to reinstall it as necessary -- from hardware changes/failures/upgrades/whatever. It turns out you don't with most OEMs. A recovery disk is all they are required to provide.
Here's the link to the forum over at thegreenbutton.com (Windows Media Center site) that tells my tail of woe and what I learned.
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/160224.asp x
Basically, you're screwed without at least on OEM copy of Windows. Then you can at least hack it. If all you've got is a recovery disk than you are hosed. THe same goes for all software that is preinstalled on your drive. You got Word preinstalled? And you changed your mobo? Whoops--it's a new computer now! No software/OS for you!
I'd love to hear if someone's challenged this in court -- it seems pretty anti-consumer, although I'm sure OEMs save a ton of money and hassle with recovery disks....

Re:You are screwed..

[skammie]

Umm, did you replace your hard drive in the HP? HP (amongst others) creates a smallish (600MB~1GB) partition on your hard drive. The recovery software is looking for that partition. Swap out the drive, and those recovery disks are useless. You can buy a disk image set from them for about $14 for your machine. I recently have gone through this repairing a friend's Compaq laptop. I had to replace the drive, and order a disk image set. It took about 5 days for me to get it, but I didn't have to purchase an OEM copy with a drive for $100.

If you swapped the exact same chipset, then...

[madhatter256]

If you had the board swapped with one that has the exact same chipset then Windows would not have picked up the change in motherboard. I have done this to many Emachines, Dells, and HPs. Sometimes I built them a whole new system, just same OEM license. Hell, the OEM license says that if the motherboard is defective, you don't have to buy a new license. In all those cases, the boards were defective and required a rebuild of the system. I never had to call MS to get a new activation key, not yet at least. Chances are what you have is an Intel chipset which are VERY picky if you swap the boards out without wanting to reinstall the OS. THe motherboard has to have the exact same chipset in order for XP to boot and not recognize the motherboard swap.

Re:If you swapped the exact same chipset, then...

[Merls the Sneaky]

I have had no hassles upgrading my machine after numerous hardware upgrades. In fact i bought my OEM XP and the only hardware I have the same is my FDD. In order to buy an OEM I just had to purchase "hardware" I just told MS customer support I bought my XP with my FDD. Sure XP balks at the install the first time, I ring MS and I got the long ass code every time hassle free.

Re:eMachines

[walt-sjc]

I'm having serious doubts about eMachines computers.

Really? You are having doubts about the quality of one of the least expensive computers on the market???? I'm shocked. Totally shocked. I would have never expected in a million years that the quality of such a low-priced, low-end machine wasn't very good....

I think you should immediately turn over the machine to the Geek Squad, and pay them big bucks to tell you that, indeed, the eMachine is a pile of crap. Those guys know. They are experts after all...

What? Was that a little too sarcastic?

Gee...

[drooling-dog]

I've never had this problem with Linux. Maybe this is Microsoft's way of suggesting that it's time to take the leap...

It's like I said

[tkrotchko]

For all intents and purposes, there is no pirating of Windows XP. Yeah, sure, there is a handful of people who build their own and of those, a handful pirate Windows XP.

But if you have a Dell, HP, IBM, Lenovo, eMachines, regardless of what MS says about activation, that machine is licensed forever. It has to be, since none of those machines offers machines to the U.S. public without Windows. And yes, I'm aware of the Dell "N" series. I don't think it makes any difference.

That's the lie of the statement that 25% of all Windows installs are illegal. How can that be when almost every computer already comes with the license.

Bullshit

[Cervantes]

I've done this exact same process (not on an eMachine though, I won't touch those pieces of crap), and had no serious problems. The worst I've ever had is that the MS internet activation wouldn't work, and I had to call up the 800 number. As long as you have the Product Key sticker (which should be firmly attached to your shiny OEM boxen) you won't have any trouble.

Unless you're a total ass, that is. I've seen (yes, actually watched) people calling up MS Support, and as soon as they get through they launch into a 10 minute diatribe on how this is so horrible, they hate it, they want their key NOWNOWNOW or they're wiping that piece of shit and putting Linux on it. Then the MS rep usually tells them to go fuck themselves.

Hell, I've even put non-oem components in it, MS doesn't seem to care, although the mobo is probably the kicker as it'll have OEM bios and such, but I've still replaced those, called up and told them I replaced it because the manufacturer doesn't carry this replacement anymore, and they gave it to me anyways.

So, I call FUD on this crap. Class action my ass.

Re:increments

[Stamen]

Roll your eyes all you want, but the problems with Activation are twofold, one is it does nothing to stop most piracy, and thus is technically poor, and two, how many minor conveniences need to stack up before you people care.

Activation does very little to stop the vast majority of piracy. A 5 second Google search will give you a key generator that bypasses it all together. I'm absolutely sure that the guy in China puts the phone down, after being denied his new Activation key, and throws away the 100,000 copies of XP he just pressed in his garage. If you really want to do Activation, at least do it like iTunes does, allow you to unactivate a computer and reactivate it on another computer; why does MS care what computer it is on as long it is only on 1 computer. Technically speaking, activation is just lame.

Let's imagine that every piece of software you've bought followed Microsoft's lead: you reinstall your motherboard, or buy a computer, and you have to call the 27 different companies and ask for permission to please use the software license you've purchased on your new equipment; please, please, I'm not bad, I swear. Perhaps there will be "Software License Lawyers" in the future that will, for a fee, make your case to all of your vendors, why you should be able to use the product you bought on the hardware you want.

It truly amazes me what people put up with. Linux, FreeBSD, and OS X all don't have Activation; something to consider.

Re:increments

[Maxwell]

Let's imagine that every piece of software you've bought followed Microsoft's lead: you reinstall your motherboard, or buy a computer, and you have to call the 27 different companies and ask for permission to please use the software license you've purchased on your new equipment; please, please, I'm not bad, I swear. Perhaps there will be "Software License Lawyers" in the future that will, for a fee, make your case to all of your vendors, why you should be able to use the product you bought on the hardware you want.

You mean like IBM's UNIX and Mainframes have done for the last 30 years? It would be great to upgrade a z/OS machine and make as *few* as 27 calls....

JON

I don't see how.

[SphericalCrusher]

I work in a mid-sized computer repair shop (I'm the lead tech actually) and we replace motherboards in e-machines all the time. I've even replaced one this week, and once it's done, I do a Windows XP repair on the new harddrive (due to recognizing the new motherboard and such and then activate by using Windows Activation through the telephone. After that, I proceed to load down motherboard drivers and download the rest of his critical updates... and so no so forth. Activating by telephone just consists of calling Microsoft, punching in the activation code, answering a couple of questions... and worst case scenario, explaining to them that you had to replace the motherboard (only if it's been activated one too many times). I've never ran into a situation where I just couldn't activate it.

Re:Developers, developers, developers, developers

[soft_guy]

Microsoft has done a damn good job of exclusively promoting its products to Dell, Gateway, Hewlett-Packard, and other Lenovo-compatible PC manufacturers such that nobody else's home OS products are advertised in mainstream media. Er, doesn't the phrase "Hi, I'm a Mac" sound familiar to you? No. I've seen Mac commercials on YouTube, but I hardly ever see them on cable television compared to Dell, Gateway, and HP commercials. That's because Apple doesn't advertise on porn channels.

what is crazy?

[falconwolf]

Seriously, I know Slashdotters are anti-social and hate talking to people, but can the damned excuses. Either you can use a phone, or you can use TTY. You can come up with crazy situations all day long, but it all comes down to that.

Activation is what's crazy, along with WGA!!! Because of these, MS has forced me to switch to Linux and Macs.

Falcon

emachines

[HermMunster]

I own and operate a computer repair shop. This past summer I had an inordinate number of emachines in with blown motherboards. It started with a series of spikes which affected the power supply and then blew the motherboard. For a while there I had so many come into the shop that I didn't know if it would ever stop. The end result was a replacement motherboard -- and not from emachines. I purchased better quality boards with a richer feature-set and installed new power supplies and reinstalled the OS. Most of the time I had to use the code on the side of the case. You should consider that.

This summer's run on emachine deaths is indicative of a very cheap power system in their design and probably should result in a class-action lawsuit itself, if ever the numbers are correlated.

Solution: Windows 2000.

[Sugar Watkins]

I have been using Windows XP at work for at least a year and a half now, but I still haven't found any reason whatsoever to upgrade beyond Windows 2000 at home. Windows 2000 does not use product activation, and is stable. So what if Microsoft doesn't support it anymore? It still works great, and I have yet to run into a software application I like that won't run on it. Seriously... so many people just act like sheep, in regard to accepting the "Thou Shalt Upgrade" commandment from Microsoft, without question.

So, in conclusion, I remain steadfast in my resolution to never buy another Microsoft operating system. And surely copies of Windows 2000 are still available on eBay, or elsewhere.

Also, you may want to start experimenting with using Linux. I'm using it more and more often these days, as I learn its capabilities. So I would recommend downloading a Knoppix Linux image, burning it to a CD-R or DVD+R, booting it up via CD/DVD drive, and playing with that. It will not affect any of the data stored on your PC (unless you direct it to).