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Wi-Fi Phones Reviewed
prostoalex writes "With municipal Wi-Fi taking off and startups distributing free wireless routers for those willing to share their Internet connections, Wi-Fi phones or hybrid phones with both cellular and Wi-Fi access, are attracting interest. Dr. Dobb's Journal runs a review of 6 wireless phone devices available on the market today. The cheapest ones start around $80, but lock you into T-Mobile branded hotspots. The more expensive ones, Sony Mylo in particular, offer support for 3rd party clients, such as Skype, GTalk and Yahoo! Messenger."
How about some much cheaper Linux smartphones! http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269. html
The government can't save you.
First off the title of the article is "Wi-Fi phones reviewed" not Skype phones reviewed, not dual mode phones reviewed, not Vonage phones reviewed. None of the models discussed actually support any sort of generic Voip, although I think Google Talk is sorta SIP based so the Sony might qualify if it can be delinked from Google. They ignored the actual standards based WiFi VoIP phones which do exist.
Add in the fact the idiot confused 802.11a and 802.11n(draft) and you really wonder what happened to the editorial standards Dr. Dobbs used to have.
So does anyone have experience with a WiFi SIP phone that isn't a horror story? I have tried a Zyxel and a D-link and hate em both.
Democrat delenda est
Presuming that when in wi-fi mode, the phone uses VoIP. Is there any layer of security for this connection, or could one simply take a wireless card, packet sniffer and a media player to listen in on calls?
Sort of reminds me of the good old AMPS analog phone days (and 49MHz cordless home phones as well) when a scanner was all you needed to eavesdrop in on other people's calls if you were so inclined.
Their comparison chart calls the utstarcom f1000 a "vonage" phone, but in reality it's a regular SIP phone. Works great with asterisk or any other SIP-friendly service.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
From someone who actually owns one of these things, I really can't imagine how painful it would be to attempt to use one as a general-purpose telephone. It was awkward enough to get my Belkin Skype phone to talk to my wireless router - and the bastard thing crashes and restarts when I'm not looking. It's working quite well as a cordless Skype phone now, but I really wouldn't want to use it for anything remotely serious. Business contacts have not been given my SkypeIn number; that's for family and friends only.
When I go anywhere, the Skype phone stays at home, while my proper, Nokia GSM phone goes with me.
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
It's a shame they left out nokia's internet tablet. The 800 is supposed to ship with google talk, and its wide-open linux so it's possible to add other clients as well.
Overall it's a great little phone and I don't have to keep track of which handset I need to be using. Now if only I could get my company to adopt asterisk and wireless...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I've been using VOIP (SIP) at home for a few years now. From the UK I call my girlfriend on her landline in the USA for almost nothing.
I've used lots of different phones and adapters. I don't generally use any "softphones" (VOIP applications that require a PC), nor any of the phones that require your PC to be on.
The absolute best voice quality, and ease-of-use is the Nokia E60 I recently bought. It was about US$300 from eBay (SIM free - i.e. generic, not locked to any network). It's standards-compliant (802.11 + SIP) and connects to both of my current VOIP providers (Sipgate and VoipBuster) without trouble.
Whenever I get home (within range of my access point) it instantly registers with my VOIP provider of choice as well as staying connected to the cell network via 3G/GSM. Whenever I click a contact to make a call it simply asks whether I want to call by "Cell" or "Internet" - and that decides how the call is routed. Incoming calls on SIP and cell work great - so you can have more than one number on your phone at the same time.
The voice quality is superb and it is so totally easy-to-use once configured (configuration is slow when you have to type all the server names on a numeric pad). The only downsides are that I only get about 2 hours of talk time over WiFi (after that I have to plug in the charger to keep talking), and that there is no built-in camera.
There is a review here: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/features/item/Nokia _E60_Preview_The_Candybar_With_Almost_Everything.p hp
It's very stable and reliable, unlike it's N-Series brothers which are a POS. I can highly recommend the phone.
Wi-Fi is unreliable enough with regular PC connections. I can't imagine what a headache it would be to try to make a phone call via Wi-Fi. Ugh. It must be like sucking glue through a straw.
I don't respond to AC's.
Mine has wifi built in.. any way for me to get into this deal too?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I also don't feel like advertising my connection to everyone in the neighborhood. Might as well throw security out the door. What happens if someone "borrows" your connection to spew out some spam or do some illicit things? It won't be my ass on the line. Criminals seek out anonymity and this system provides ample amounts
First off, the article is flat wrong, I can use my Nokia 6136 on ANY WiFI I want. I am not limited to just t-mobile hotspots. I roam all over the country and latch on to different WiFi networks without a problem. The SSID "linksys" is my friend. I get unlimited WiFi calls and it seamlessly switches to GSM when I leave the WiFi area. One thing nice is, if I start a call on WiFi and roam to GSM, it's still billed as a WiFi call.
I've never been happier with a phone -- although you are too late to get a free year of T-Mobile along with a Mylo purchase. Sometimes the wi-fi is too slow at schools or other free places to use Skype, but at home or at Starbucks it works great.
And I'm not talking Java MIDP. I want a phone, I want wi-fi on it, and I want to write native apps for it. No such thing exists or has even been announced to my knowledge.
The downside to this model is its relatively short battery life, but it's even got a slide out qwerty keypad so texting isn't half bad...
Here's a link to it...
Two fish swim into a wall, one turns to the other and says, "Dam".
I own a Sharp Zaurus and a Palm Treo 650 along with a WiFi card for both. I never use WiFi. Here's why.
There are several scenarios where you think it'll be useful to have WiFi on your phone, either for e-mail, browsing or VoIP.
At Home or Work
Once the novelty wears off, you will realize that the computer in the corner is much better suited for internet and e-mail usage. If you want to curl up on the couch or wander the house doing chores while talking to your Mom via VoIP, add a $20 bluetooth dongle onto your computer, router or NSLU2 and use that instead; you'll double your battery life.
At a Friend's House
Most friends have computers they'll let you borrow. Extensive surfing or VoIP'ing is antisocial, you won't be taking advantage of that as much as you think you will.
Out on the street
By the time you find a free, open WiFi hotspot, your battery will be dead. GPRS is so much more reliable that once you hook it up, you'll just end up using that instead.
On vacation
I spent two months in Europe and blogged every day for the entire trip using my Treo 650 and a bluetooth keyboard. I brought along the WiFi adaptor and never used it because it was such a pain to find and connect to a hot spot. Instead, I transferred articles from the Treo to computers in Internet Cafe's via the SD card and a USB adaptor. At a coffeeshop to work outside the office
A laptop is so much more usable that you'll end up lugging the heavy thing to the coffeeshop rather than taking along just your phone.
Summary
WiFi is nice to have, but it shouldn't significantly affect purchase decisions. Don't ignore beautiful phones like the Neo1973 or Treos just because they don't have WiFi.
traditional cell carriers are launching dual-mode phones and services that run over the cellular networks, but switch to cheaper (for carriers), faster (for customers) Wi-Fi networks when one is available.
It would be nice if carriers just sold mobile IP addresses and let consumers choose their own devices, services, etc.. Many of us would think it odd if we bought our computer from our ISP and it didn't work with other ISPs, yet this is the norm for cell phone companies. Your ISP mostly doesn't know/care whether you use your network for data or voice, but with cell phone companies every protocol, text messaging, email, voice, Internet, etc. is a separately billable service. From a administrative point of view this is just dumb.
Perhaps, finally, cell phone companies are leaving the old 20th century telco-mindset behind and becoming part of the Internet.
Imagine that most people turn on a wifi (Like the free Fon mentioned)
Now, just enable these to connect and route traffic automatically
Now,
1. Everybody can now have a wifi phone with free
2. Nobody will need an ISP
3. Nobody will need a phone company
4. Nobody can shut you off
5. Everyone can have a fast connection
6. You do not have to sign a service agreement
7. what else?
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
A few months ago I purchased the Audiovox XV6700 through Verizon.. Its a damn amazing phone and I'm very glad to have bought it.. I personally use the Wifi capabilities to sync up with the exchange server at work.. even when I'm home, I have a little crappy belkin wireless router and it's great when I need to sync up my appointments and email before I leave for work.. plus, i think it's a good way to experience a free way of using the Internet on a cell phone without paying those ridiculous data plans.. it'll probably soon become standard just as the camera did..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
Cellular data is so ridiculously overpriced in Canada ($100 for 200 megs!), so finally having to compete with cheap WiFi handsets will be one hell of a wakeup call to the cellular industry here.
I look forward to the day that I can call my cellphone carrier and tell them to get stuffed because there's now a WiFi based solution that will do the same for a fraction of the cost. Bring it on.
HP predicted that in 12 or so years, we'll have watches that act as a communications gateway. The watch is the cellular/wifi router, and your various personal devices (handset, ear piece, PDA, laptop, camera, etc.) will connect to your watch via Wifi or Bluetooth. (so, you'll have an external (watch->hotspot) Wifi network, and an internal (device->watch) Wifi network).
So, your handset becomes just a bluetooth device that can tell the watch what # to dial, whether to use the cellular network to make the call, or a SIP/VOIP interface via IP (the cellular IP capabilities or via the local Wifi hotspot if one is available), and then also acts as your bluetooth speaker and microphone. The watch itself might have a simple UI for making calls, and then a "screen saver" that might make it look like a watch (analog, digital, xearth faces would be cool ... one of the xearth clones that uses actual earth images instead of flat green and blue). Combine that with Seagate's new bluetooth hard drive, Sony's stereo bluetooth headset, and you have a distributed network of specialized devices that implement all of these functions instead of a monolithic device (ie. lets embrace the unix philosophy here!).
The thing is: I don't think we need to wait 12 years. I don't think it would take too much to add to a Trolltech Qtopia Green Phone to make it usable as such a device. The complication is: making it smaller (take off the keypad, clearly), and where do you put the antenna?
I think a basic antenna could go in the watchband, but you could also have various external antenna ideas that depend on how "geek chique" you want to be. Perhaps an extended "watchband" that goes up over the back of your hand, adding a keypad and antenna extension inside of the extra area. Or a "gauntlet" type watchband that has antennas in it, a keypad, and maybe pouches for extra batteries and other accessories like the bluetooth hard drives. That gives you basic connectivity with the "normal" watchband, and then better connectivity depending on how "out of the ordinary" you want to look. Or you could have slightly more stealthy extensions like the ipod jacket that puts wires into the fabric of the jacket, so your antenna is somewhere in your jacket, and your accessory pouches are in the jacket pockets ... you'd just need a wire to go from your sleeve to the expansion port on the watch. Then you could have jackets in multiple styles (windbreaker, blazer, etc.)
But, if you remove the area on the green phone where the keypad is, are you left with enough physical space for the rest of the device? I don't know. I think it would be worth looking into. I know that you can already eliminate the area of the phone's board that makes up the camera, and probably some of what implements the storage space and external storage card. All of that gets moved to other devices.
(Note: a company in australia already does make a cell phone watch, but it's a flip-phone kinda thing.. and I don't think it acts as much of a gateway for other devices. And, another company makes a watch that can act as a bluetooth device will tell you who is calling, and I think allow you to make/accept calls by telling your phone what to do, so the "bluetooth handset" isn't much of an extrapolation, for those who really want to have a handset.)
That's the communication device I want. The watch cellular/wifi gateway. Sony's MyLO could already make use of it, along with other Wifi/SIP phones.
Is there some other Sony, maybe not the famous one?
The Sony I know does not play nice with protocols, file formats, or even CD audio standards.
> It's a regular GSM/UMTS phone which also has WiFi and a full blown SIP client on board.
Sounds nice, but overkill for my need. We binned a aging AT&T/Lucent/Avaya key system for an Asterisk PBX. The Lucent system had cordless phones that were freaking huge, generally crappy and cost a fortune. But it had them. Now our choices are:
a) a standard cordless phone with an ATA on the base station. Cheap but since you lose the extra features it is only good for a few situations.
b) a Wi-Fi SIP phone. Even $350 is less expensive than Avaya was reaming us for but we don't need a cellphone and a PDA/smartphone is so overkill it would confuse our staff so that Nokia you suggest is out. To date the two SIP phones we have tried have sucked. As in frequent crashing and really lousy battery life.
Democrat delenda est
Why isn't the Nokia N800?
-- Cerebus
I want a nice, open wifi/VOIP phone. I don't know why they aren't on the market.
I want VOIP ! I don't want to have a big plan bill every month. 80% of the time I am within range of a wireless router.
I want data connectivity ! I can't live more than 20 feet from a computer tied to the Internet ! I get like 50 emails a day. I'm tired of being tied to my desk waiting for emails. And no, I won't get a ridiculous Blackberry. The plans for those things are ridiculous !
I want it open ! Preferably it should run Linux so a bunch of hackers can hack it and make it into a super phone. I want my phone list and some sort of expense tracking software on it. It should have a camera and integrate with my office voice and email. When people leave a voicemail, I want it to show up as an email in my inbox.
The phones we have now are only half of what they need to be.
Vonage offers the Starcom phone, but you can get that one separate from them and use it as a regular SIP client. The Mylo supports several services besides Google, so I'd guess it also would support standard SIP. I don't know anything about the rest, though.
Google Talk is not SIP based, it uses Jabber with the (being standardised) Jingle extension for transferring the streaming audio for talking...
Just to add a thumbs up regarding Wi-Fi in the e-series (I have an e70), though I don't do VOIP; I prefer text:
;) . Also, always on IM (MSN/AIM/Yahoo/ICQ) is well covered by Agile Messenger.
the Apple WebKit based web browser is pretty neat, supporting JavaScript and CSS. It's not as fluid as the iPhone demos, of course, but then again it is on sale
For text based stuff I find the e70 display (352x416) nicer than the e60 (320x240, but larger).
http://www.fring.com/
Skype / Google talk client for symbian
free as in beer
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Having looked for this functionality before, I checked the comparison - and found a handful of devices all running proprietary protocols.
Why does this article ignore phones such as the Nokia E70, which does SIP over wi-fi?
The headline for the Dobbs article is "Wi-Fi Phone Buyer's Guide" which, for something that discusses the technology and its advantages and disadvantages, is about right. It doesn't really review the phones though. You could pretty much write the article without ever having touched one! And, unfortunately, that's a very big difference. As far as I know they're all very much Version 1.0 products with some pretty serious problems.
I liked the concept and bought a Belkin Wi-Fi Phone, but ultimately I was pretty disappointed. It's currently back with Belkin being replaced.
Do you know any ZRTP wi-fi phone out there?
I was really hoping to see some objective insights into HTC's PDA phones here... I've been toying with the idea of getting one.
I especially like the Atermis [ http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htcp3300.html ] and the Trinity [ http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htcp3600.html ] - though I'd love to read a comparison with other connected PDA/Phones on the market.
I remember reading a review on the SMC skype phone (which surprisingly wasn't reviewed here !). It is about the same price as the other Skype phones ($150 dollars) but the main objection against it was that it doesn't have echo cancellation aboard. This will definitely make you hear quality difference between a GSM and this Skype phone. I guess the time-to-market is now more important for a lot of companies than the actual quality of the set.
It is feature-complete, but wifi+skype client is not enough to make a consumer-friendly product imho.
Best option: wait a little while before you buy one.
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
what makes you think these are cheaper? I've yet to see a linux based pda/smartphone that's cheaper than any comparable non-linux product. WinCE is damned cheap per license and finding vendors that are linux friendly for the chipsets is not nearly as easy. In most cases, it's a wash monetarily, and in some cases the linux devices cost more if only because the hardware chosen ends up being more robust due to it being from that linux friendy chip maker that isn't simply trying to turn out the cheapest crap they can (it costs them money to make linux drivers too).
- Disclaimer: Information in this post deemed reliable but not guaranteed.
Ideal would be a Skype base station with integrated camera and screen (or using the TV like D-link's device) for non-techies to use.
It's running Symbian so yes, you can write apps for it (c++:ish, That is to say, C++ with some special quirks)./ There is still some subsystem support and standard libraries missing, but it is already useable. And running the Raccoon (Apache port for Symbian) with mod_python in that thing is really an eye-opener. http://research.nokia.com/research/projects/mobile -web-server/
Symbian has existed since 1998 and is probably the most used operating system in smart phones.
Then there is the open source Python interpreter by Nokia that is getting on quite nicely. Not native apps of course, but much more to my liking than Java. http://opensource.nokia.com/projects/pythonfors60
Nice gadget, but I don't think it will work in my situation. That one isn't Wi-Fi so would only work within the range of it's supplied base. And unless I found a US version it probably isn't using the right freqs and would not be legal in the US. Finally, it says it can transfer between its handsets but since they aren't SIP (the base is) it an open question if they could transfer to a regular SIP phone.
Great idea for the SoHo market though.
Democrat delenda est
i have a UT Starcom F1000. it can be programmed to work with any SIP provider, unless you bought your model from Vonage (in which case there's a firmware hack). it's also not the newest model from UT Starcom- the F3000 looks pretty cool (the '1000 style could at best be described as 'retro'. amber backlight, eek!). the F1000 works great at home, at school, at work and at friend's houses, and anywhere else there's an under-utilized, stable, open AP. it works very, very poorly on my city's public Wifi node. at coffeeshops it just depends on how much bandwidth is available. it really sucks at roaming from one AP to the next without dropping calls, the new version is supposed to be better at this.
it's not an adequate cell replacement by itself- i've definitely had moments of running around some neighborhood, needing to make an urgent call, pressing the 'search' key & war... dialing (hehe, sort of)? like a maniac. that said, i do use it as my primary voice communication tool, and it's the number I give everyone (the same VOIP account that's been my primary phone number for three years). i carry a prepaid cell on long or remote trips, and the VOIP account sends a text msg to that phone whenever i have voicemail on the main line.
all together, my monthly phone bill is just under $20 including plenty of long personal and business calls, domestic and international, placed from home/school/work & on the road. no complaints.