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Mid-Range Accounting Solutions for Linux?
markdavis asks: "For Linux to really succeed in business, it must first have support by vendors for the core financial applications: General Ledger, Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivable, and Payroll/HR. I am the IT Director for a long-term-care medical facility (400 employees) and found out a few weeks ago that the vendor that supplies our GL, AP, HR, and Payroll software is dropping support for Linux, in November (after using them for four years). They code in Progress and have decided to convert to a proprietary web GUI (IIS + IE6 + ActiveX) rather than use Progress + Apache + any browser. This means we either abandon Linux, or we are in the market for new accounting software modules (I bet you know which is my preferred choice). Does anyone use Linux server AND client (or web browser under Linux) software for financials in a medium or smaller/medium sized organization? If so, what do you use? Do you like it? What problems did you have in using it? What other advice can you give to someone trying to use Linux in this manner?"
All businesses require the core accounting functions, mentioned above. Most companies also require 'industry specific' software which is customized for their industry. For example, in healthcare, AR (Accounts Receivable) is VERY different from all other industries. It is 2007, so hopefully the Linux choices for at least the core, non-industry specific financial software have improved since our last search, four years ago.
have been working on an RFI/RFP (Request for Information/Proposal) and identifying as many possible vendors as possible. I have searched through hundreds of vendors so far and identified 39 possibilities, but could always use more."
have been working on an RFI/RFP (Request for Information/Proposal) and identifying as many possible vendors as possible. I have searched through hundreds of vendors so far and identified 39 possibilities, but could always use more."
For Linux to really succeed in business
Why do people so often preface Linux questions with things like that? "For Linux to really succeed in business" "For linux to succeed on the desktop".
Linux is succeeding in many aspects. Success doesn't have to mean 90% of the market share.
Anyway, that pet peeve aside. Take a look at compiere. Only drawback that I see is that it requires a non-free database to run on top of.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
Oracle offers a few packages that do all the things you mention - and will run on a variety of platforms. They have versions of at least two of their products that are tailored for small to medium business. So you could take a look at: http://www.oracle.com/applications/suites.html
I've never worked with any of their small business stuff -- so I can't recommend it, just pointing it out.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Have you ever met accountants? They're crazy, man, do you really want them making software choices?
I wonder how compatible IEs4Linux would be with your current vendor?
e
http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Pag
:wq
I think just about everything is now covered in LedgerSMB or the project from which it was forked - SQL-Ledger. My business has been using these systems for the last four years and has found them to be stable, flexible and reliable.
The back end runs on an Apache server with PostgreSQL underneath. The client side can be just about any browser platform (including Lynx). There are online demos where you can test most of the functionality before deploying in your own network.
HTH.
Burns: We're building a casino!
McAllister: Arrr. Give me 5 minutes.
Maybe you're a bit small to use SAP? If so, there's always Sage, but I think you're stuck with a windows frontend there.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Well if he's picking tooling for the accounting dept does he periodically wander down to theatre and tell the surgeons what implements they can and cant use during surgery? Does he tell the nurses how to administer care and the drugs they can provide?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
google
has lots of suggestions. If you are looking for midrange you can buy lots of great packages that come with support and you can even demo most of them before you buy.
If you are looking for 100% free then nothing exists that you will want to use, I strongly suggest you pay for your accounting software.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The organization that I work for uses QAD - its a progress based ERP package for manufacturing, so I don't think its what you are looking for. All our users ssh via putty into the Linux server to get to the progress/4GL apps.
The farthest I'd go in the Web interface is use Flash (and only optional) to ease the pageflow pain. And I'd only do that because I've built ERP Apps before using flash and - believe it or not - they work pretty well on Linux, OS X and Windows. If you know what your doing. Which, sadly enough, only very few Flash devs actually do.
Just curious, What type of functionality do you get using flash that couldn't be handled using AJAX?
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
No, but I imagine he would have a say in the software they use. I would say his concern is more than just a personal preference concern. If the new software is not compatible with linux then it sounds like there would be a mass move to Windows which would be costly and time consuming, I'm sure.
:wq
The problem is that accounting runs the risk of picking the cheapest package out there, not necessarily the best accounting package. While one option may be cheaper in the short order, it may run you more money in the long term from unforseen costs due to inferior software support or each revision of the software requiring a hardware upgrade, etc. I'm sure that many of us in IT have run in to situations where we've been forced to make less than desireable choices due to accounting constraints. Not to mention, he's in healthcare where, unless an executive makes it one of their pet projects to "modernize" the computers, IT generally gets the shaft as far as funding is concerned. At least, that was my experience in my 4 years of performing healthcare IT. Some of you may have worked in poorly funded environments, but I'll bet not many of you have replaced dumb terminals with Windows 95 machines... in 2004.
Accounting does deserve some input on the features that they require and the overall usability, and in the end, the CFO will still be the one to sign the purchase order, but when you're talking a client/server package that needs to be compatible with their current environment, it's not a bad idea to have the director of IT involved in the decision.
If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.
"the Job"
:)
....blah..blah...blah....first born son....blah....pentagram....blah blah blah blahallyourbase....blah, blah blah.
The best tool for "the Job" is "the Mac".
j/k
Seriously. Let's say the perfect tool for the job is a 31.25 kg ball-pien hammer. You go to the hardware store, and they have that 31.25 kg ball-pien hammer, but in order to use it, you have to purchase a special glove with which to hold that hammer. The glove costs...$300? Per hand? If you buy the glove, it comes in a box. When you open the box, and go to put on the glove it has a slip of paper that blocks you putting your hand in the glove. It reads:
End User License Agreement
By putting on this glove you agree to
On the shelf next to that glove is a 31 kg ball-pien hammer that can be used with the glove of your choice. You know, it might not be the PERFECT choice, or the BEST tool for the job, but sometimes it's not just the tool that you have to consider, but the work environment you create by choosing that tool.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
I put my vote in for TinyERP.
It's easy to use, there are great demo's online, and it does everything, multi-platform support, interfacing with eCommerce engines, invoicing, orders, crm, etc...
Well if he's picking tooling for the accounting dept does he periodically wander down to theatre and tell the surgeons what implements they can and cant use during surgery?
Accountants are users not admins, they get trained on one thing and probably would prefer to still use it. One I know was a big fan of Peachtree and wanted to install it wherever she went even though in some situations it was inadequate for the size or not suited for th type of the business she was working for.
But also you sould choose a system with sonone who knows the financial end of the business so they can tell you if it will work or not (or what problems you might face) before you roll it out.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
http://demo.openbravo.com/ OpenBravo is the only one I've seen that looks promising. Compiere was incredibly difficult to setup, I never actually succeeded. Try the demo link above. Don't even think about using Sage products. They are TERRIBLE! I speak from experience here. They were written using 20 year old "Business BASIC" language. They are not even truly client-server applications, they use file sharing and locking instead. Very unreliable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProvideX
Death is life's great reward. R. Hoek
I'm amazed that you have 39 choices, and you are looking for MORE!
Maybe none of them are an exact fit for his needs. It sounds like he is trying to "do his homework" right now and you're just being pissy and feeding him flack.
I would go with KCML, it has been running since 1974 and is still what we use... (I hate it, I wish it were dead) Seriously it sucks.. I used viewpoint at one company it was a windows SQL App , pretty cool, but a behemoth...
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
I hate to sound so negative, but don't expect a vast range to be Free (either beer or speech). The problem of accounting is fantastically boring to most computer people, the code is 90% boiler-plate stuff and if you're going to generate tax paperwork for directly from the package it will require extensive localisation.
Bottom line, it's the kind of thing which is very difficult to persuade people to code without paying them. And the itch-scratching crowd which starts a lot of Free projects doesn't tend to work on such projects.
Which is not to say there aren't commercial solutions to the problem.... but don't expect a lot of choice in the way of community-driven solutions.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Damn, reading comprehension isn't my strong suit in the morning. Eliminate, leaving one. Right, I get it... now where's that coffee?
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
You forgot about the guy you have to pay to come over and put the gloves on for you so they don't interfere with your socks.
I don't mean to denigrate your choice of architectural platform, but you don't indicate your level of authority/ approval of this sort of thing. I'll just sketch out how it works for very large companies and you can cut out the middle layers for your own purposes.
Accounting, as a department, would work with IT to locate the best application for their requirements, with respect to the following: 1) fitness with current or predicted ERP solution(s) if extant, so you don't buy something that doesn't work with SAP, for example; 2) fitness with current architectural plan or standards, so you don't bring in an AS/400 into a Windows-only shop or a one-off solution (i.e. requiring an Oracle database in a DB2 shop); 3) fitness with what other parts of the company are using, so you don't duplicate the efforts of another part of your company.
I could only imagine a scaled down version, but it will probably be something like this: the IT person charged with finding the app should bring in an accounting rep right now, such that the rep has the authority or can acquire the authority to purchase a solution. Then your IT point man should be pulling down all viable candidates that fit the constraints, and then running demos and shootouts based on real user requirements (I'm assuming IT has their requirements being met during the selection of candidates).
I wasn't seeing this in the original request, and I've been through enough of these to recognize when a solution may be getting anointed without enough due diligence of the other, more critical issues. Sorry to break it to you, but if the best package for your business happens to be a Windows-only app, you need to get over your Spheniscidaen bias and do the right thing by your accounting folks. The best app for them may not be the best app for IT, but that's why you get paid the big bucks, fella.
-BA
The job of the accounting department (like any end user) is to write the specification. "We need GL, A/P, A/R, payroll, federal and state taxes, etc.", with additional constraints as required. Must support million+ records. Must support multiple concurrent users. All of the fun domain stuff.
And that's it. If they say "we need package XYZ", they're as off-base as a technical person saying that they must us the Simpson-Barr deprecation schedule for domestic exotic livestock.
The tech people must consult with the accounting department, of course, since both groups need to keep training and maintenance costs in mind, but the final word has to be the CIO/IT department since they understand the cost of integrating the application into their existing shop. The cost of the software itself is usually trivial compare to the human costs and there could be a 100% markup on one package over a nearly identical one if one requires staff obtain and manage hardware outside of their usual expertise.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Looks pretty black and white to me.
A) Switch OSs. This makes the users and the company happy and saves the company thousands of dollars compared to...
B) Switch Applications. This makes one whiny IT guy happy and will cost the company thousands of dollars in lost time and effort making the conversion and retraining.
Looks like "dump Linux" is the smart choice here.
And the guy (or two) to lift a hammer weighing sixty-odd pounds.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
We get a lot of RFP/RFI/RFQs from IT guys who think that the spray method is the right way to go (i.e. send it out to a ton of companies). And I can tell you, the untrained sales reps often try to respond to each one. It's a huge waste of time. It's a much better strategy, from the vendor's perspective to choose a few incoming RFPs, and respond WELL to those. And ultimately, a cost effective vendor means a more profitable, successful vendor, which often means a better price for the buyer and/or a more stable long-term partner.
As a vendor, I MUST "qualify" my prospects to be successful. If the prospect hasn't even shown me the respect to narrow down the field to a reasonable number, then they aren't a good fit. Not worth my time.
Call it being pissy, but that's the facts. Yes, I no-bid a lot of these. Or send a printed/emailed copy of the website information, if I am feeling generous. But it's just smart business.
So what he will get, when he sends it out to 39 companies, is boilerplate responses, no-bids, and an occasional aggressive-but-foolish (or desperate) thorough response. Who would you rather do business with - a smart business person, or a foolish, desperate, aggressive one?
Take a look at http://www.conetic.com/ -- Conetic Software's web site. Conetic developed - C/Books - a suite of nine accounting modules that are fully customizable. The extensive suite of development tools (both for windows and Linux) allow the system to modified to the businesses unique needs; they even have a Web database proxy server to allow a secure method of making the accounting data available via the internet. As for the client side -- C/Books can be accessed via a native Linux GUI client, a windows client and character based terminals. Conetic has supported Linux since 1992 and currently supports several linux platforms -- 32-bit & 64-bit linux. The best part is the pricing module. Conetic products are licensed by concurrent number of users -- so price should not be an issue.
I have a client which is an accounting firm in the US. They primarily use Thompson's Creative Solutions, which they use for both payroll and general ledger for a variety of clients.
I've seen worse software - but I've also seen MUCH better. It seems to be written on an Access base, which I think is the root of most of the problems. It no longer just randomly crashes for no reason, but it still occasionally decides to corrupt a data file for no apparent reason. (To date this has been recoverable...) Network performance on very fast machines and switched fast ethernet is terrible - even though it's only single-user on a given client. And of course it's Windows only. (Although we use a little Samba server, which otherwise performs quite nicely)
I'd love to recommend a move to a cross platform solution - but frankly I'd love to move to anything that didn't suck as much, even if it still required a Windows client. But obviously the needs of a multi-client package aren't the same as a solution sold to in-house accounting at a midsized business.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
Don't overlook manual methods.
People used to have to do their accounts before computers were invented. They managed fine. Don't assume that you have to use a computer; the simple fact is you don't. Everyone should learn to do their accounts by hand first, before they're allowed anywhere near a computer. Also, non-erasable pen and paper have one obvious advantage that you can't get with a computerised system: there is no UNDO function.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
We aren't talking about a mom and pop shop. We are looking at a 400 person company. Manually compiling the payroll alone would be cost prohibitive.
Not to mention since he's a health care provider, the company is required to file their A/R electronically by HIPAA.
Consistency?
As an an accountant (a CPA even) with both an MBA and a MS in CS, I agree. Accountants are rabid. Don't focus on the fact that it runs on Linux. They don't (and shouldn't) care. I don't care if it runs on two caterpillars and a walnut. Tell them about features and security, heavy on the security. Physical access to servers and logical access to the underlying data. No touchy. Show them pictures of the screens, set them in front of it. How do I do a journal entry? Can I get a trial balance? Will it export to Excel and Access? Give them an honest choice on features. Then the IT dept has to agree that its supportable. Team effort here please, its a joint decision.
Using the Freedom of Speech while I still have it.
If you were actually doing your job - your preferred solution would be that which was better for your employer. Instead, what's clear, is you place your own religious beliefs ahead of any other consideration.
TinyERP - http://tinyerp.com/ - email me for support options....
The GPL, for those that truely understand.
Does this have something to do with Penguins?
Care to expand on that?
There is already some level of consistency if browser implementation differences are abstracted into a common javascript library.
It seems far more inconsitent to have part of a form in html text and other parts in completely isolated plugin objects.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
Switching OSes means the users and the company have to adjust to a new OS instead of a new app. Would that be your choice if it'd been a Windows app moving to Linux? Think about it -- would you rather learn a new app or a new OS?
Also: Long-term, switching OSes means they have to pay for Vista (thousands of dollars for 400 users, unless they get a deal), and they have to keep paying the Microsoft tax for new versions. It seems very likely to me that if this establishment is around for very long, the sheer cost savings of sticking with the OS that's free forever will offset retraining -- even assuming they go for a proprietary app.
And realize, you're advocating ActiveX. Is that really what you want people to use? I mean, all other things equal, would you advocate IIS+ActiveX (oh, and hold everyone back to IE6, when IE7 is a "critical update") over Apache+standards?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
You have an existing accounting system that works, and the only thing that would change is that they wish to use Windows instead of Linux as an OS?
And you're suggesting moving the entire accounting system into a new software package just so you can keep it in Linux?
I'm betting you haven't discussed this with your boss, or with anyone who has ever moved accounting systems between packages.
Keep what works and don't complicate people's lives. Instead going on wild goose chases, take a couple of days and learn the basics of administering the new Vista or XP box.
Three Squirrels
1) The IEs4Linux FAQ says that "ActiveX may not work with some special cases" not that it does not work. Best to just test it in this particular instance.
2) Switching to a couple of IIS servers and installing IE on the 400 Linux desktops is easier then switching 400 desktops to MS Windows.
3) As others have mentioned, it is not about the success of Linux, it is about freedom. The poster is quite happy to use a proprietary accounting package to store and manage the data. Does not sound like an attractive nor wise decision.
And now you're being pissy and feeding me flack instead. You're making a lot of negative assumptions about this guy with zip-all for facts to back it up. As for your final question, we do business with companies that take a few minutes to gather the facts before jumping to conclusions. Not to say that your method doesn't work, it does, most companies have to do that. But you're jumping way ahead of things here and berating the guy for something he hasn't done yet. Chill out a bit, heck, if you're familiar with the product sector he's asking about then the same time you've spent venting could be spent providing useful information and everyone reading these threads would better off, even yourself! Lower blood pressure, smoother relations with others, less ulcers etc etc, the benefits are manifold, you should try it! :)
One option that I've heard of that runs on Linux (and many other platforms) is Southware.
Have you taken a look at NOLA? It looks (from the outside) like something you could work with.
http://www.nolapro.com/
Also check out this site it has alot of options listed http://www.aaxnet.com/design/linuxacct.html
I wouldn't want to switch to windows either.
As a (former) accountant, auditor and now implementation consultant, I agree except: accounting almost *never* gets asked about functionality. The 'do-ers' in accounting know the best way a process works. The managers, who usually come from public accounting (Big 4 or regional) almost NEVER have any actual accounting experience - in terms of doing accounting. They were auditors, which requires no actual accounting ability. Hence, conversations like this, "You're net income is overstated, because you mis-stated depreciation expense for last quarter. Fix it.", "OK, how? What is the journal entry?", "I'm an auditor, not a bookkeeper... you figure it out..." I kid you not.
/rant
Clerks can't pass the CPA exam, because they lack a theoretical background ("Discuss FASB141 impact on long-term assets..."). Managers can't pass Practical Accounting 101 - 'How to keep good books' because they never *worked* as an accountant, yet they became decision makers.
In my experience, a senior-level accounting manager (controller level or above) gets sold on a system by a consultancy - they look at price or sex appeal, but NEVER take a few staff accountants and have them test out the system before purchase. What? Get some high-school educated clerk who has done the same job for 15 years test this complicated product? What do they know? They wear reindeer sweaters to the Christmas party fer chrissakes!
Yah, they only know exactly how the job is done, what should happen, and usually what should work better, but since no one cares to ask their opinion, and they are routinely reminded they are not considered 'the best and the brightest' in the office, because they get paid way less than a freshie straight from University, management never finds out what would actually work.
I went into consulting because I decided, after 4 companies, each worse than the last, that if I had to deal with this kind of idiocy, I was damn well gonna be on the 'getting paid' side of it. That, and I get to talk to Ms. Reindeer sweater and help her out during the implementation and setup where her manager could care less. Kinda nice, actually.
Back OT, don't blame accounting for bad IT decisions - they're either marketing victims, too stupid, or not asked for their input. Blame senior management and their love of free golf outings.
I don't have any say in which A/C systems the facility uses. I don't decide which medications are used. I don't even pick which benefits the employees get.... those are not my department. But if they were looking for IT in those areas, then my department does have a role in specifications. Our infrastructure is based mostly on Linux, already.
Trying not to sound snobbish.... but if end users got to choose whatever technology they wanted to use, we would have an unreliable, extremely expensive, insecure, unmanagble mess! There are valid reasons why significant weight in such decisions are given to someone with a degree in IT, training in IT, and 20 years of experience in IT.
Just a few points-
:)
IEs4Linux is a neat thing (all of WINE, in general), but it is not terribly reliable, uses a lot of resources, and if there were even the slightest problem we would get zero support from the application vendor. Plus, that doesn't help with the server side (which is just as important).
We have 400 employees, and 150 users (not 400), and 130 thin-client Linux-based desktops.
Yes, it is about freedom- freedom to choose the server and client platforms. It is especially important when our whole system is already based around the platform of our choice (Linux). But the cost of that "freedom" is throwing away 80% (?) of the possible vendors, who don't support the platform. Nothing in life is free
I would give the highest preference to any vendor that met our application specifications and also supported all (reasonably all, anyway) platforms. The open/closed nature of the software application is mostly not important to us, as long as we have reliable support (training, improvements, patches, diagnostic, regulatory compliance changes, etc).
2) I have spent countless hours sorting through often horrible websites that half the time don't even tell the exact modules they offer, much less what platforms they support.
3) No vendor is under any obligation to reply to the RFI/RFP if they look through the first page and see they can't meet the needs. Give me a bit of credit for being able to write something that is organized and easy on the vendors.
4) 39 possible choices, not actual choices. Some won't respond. Others will not have all the modules. Still many others will not really support the platform when it comes down to it. We hope to narrow it down quickly to several before doing what REALLY wastes vendor's time- demo.
5) I certainly hope you wouldn't treat your prospective customers like that! Let's say 15 responded. I would say a 1 in 15 chance of a many thousands-of-dollars sale and multiple years of support contracts is worth 30-60 minutes of paperwork by a technical salesman (I mean, that *is* his job, isn't it?)
You will be amused to know that we already use Quasar for our gift shop, complete with a Linux based POS! I like it a lot for a small setting.
However, it isn't quite up to the task of our whole organization. And without Payroll/HR, it doesn't fit the bill anyway. Their support is also somewhat lacking (yes, we have paid for support).
Yes, we could "outsource" payroll, but that wouldn't really help all that much, since it is almost the same amount of work, usually more expensive, would have to build interfaces, payroll companies often don't have much in the way of HR, etc. It is not completely out of the question, but it is not the ideal route for us at the moment.
this guy is looking for an accounting solution.....
now there one thing the "move to windows" crowd are forgetting this is an accounting solution....a solution for accountants...
option 1
burn huge hole in the bank, and pay the micro-mafia tax.
or
option 2
new accounting software modules, cheaper and quicker then installing windows on any number of computers
now if you were an accountant which would you go for?....in terms of money having somebody develop new software for your company or switching to better software might be cheaper then being exploited.
i mean its the whole total cost of pwnership debate with the cost factor thrown in for good measure
"Stallman says add to this code and you are one of us. Gates says use this code and you belong to us."
It wouldn't take much for Quicken to get Quickbooks running nicely under Wine, at least a 2003 version I have runs almost perfectly under Crossover.
I know it doesn't help our non x86 bretheren but with just a little tweaking here and there Linux desktops could finally have a good small business accounting system.
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I'm just curious, coming from the AS/400~iseries world, on the midrange accounting terminology used in the heading of this thread. Is the midrange to describe the size of the company? (which at 400 it does). The scope of accounting functionality needed? Or the size of the computer to run the software, which is the usage of it for the iseries?
If Linux were to be described as a midrange environment, what would be the specs of a midrange class computer running Linux (or other OS'es)? Of course Linux runs in partitions on the iseries and mainframe, but just curious what midrange means elsewhere these days.
rd
Just a few comments on Quasar Accounting (and as a disclaimer I'm the one who wrote most of it)...
We have not had a public release of the 1.5 version of Quasar for a couple reasons. Mainly its been due to being busy with 2 large installs (one with 25 stores in South Africa and another with 70+ stores in Canada). These installs have had us busy travelling and doing installs and adding functionality to Quasar for these customers and basically has swamped us! We also have some concern over how a company in South Africa is using Quasar to sell their hardware without any income coming back to us. They added a POS module to it which would be fine if their POS was open source (and I'd have no complaint in that case) but its not (though they claim they plan to make it open source "soon"). Things like this make us question having Quasar Accounting as open source and I've been trying to figure out how to stop it from happening in the future. I want to have an open source version and have people all over the world using it but if someone wants to sell it and profit from it, I would like to get a small cut of that since I wrote it. I'm not sure if there is a good model for doing this.
As for Payroll/HR, this is in many ways the most difficult part of the application to write. Its *extremely* related to your locale and there is not much of an overlap between a system to handle the payroll for the US and to handle the payroll for Canada. Not to mention the other countries we sell Quasar in. Our commercial clients have either handled it in-house or use a third-party company. We have started to add some ability to track hours in Quasar and a way to export this so you can send it to a third-party but I still don't see a full payroll package being added anytime soon.
And finally your comment about support. I'm not sure I recognize the company you work for but please feel free to send me an email with the company info and what problems you've had with support and I'll check it out.
We work with thousands of companies each year who are looking for accounting software. Believe me most do not look at this as a fun thing to do. There are a lot of things to consider when making a change. What OS the software runs on most often is not the thing that ultimately drives the software choice. I understand the desire for staying with Linux but be sure to keep an open mind and review other software options. I believe you'll be doing your business a disservice if you don't look at other choices. Selecting the right accounting software can make or break the business.
That said there are literally thousands of accounting systems to consider. Obviously many more than anyone could ever consider. Given your business size you can quickly eliminate high end products like SAP, JD Edwards, etc as well as low end products like Quickbooks, MYOB, Peachtree, etc. You'll find your best bets are in the mid range product lines. I agree with you regarding the AR needs for your type of business. Actually it's very common for businesses to have specific needs in different areas. For example, a retailer has a completely different invoice process than does manufacturer. What can commonly be found are systems where the general accounting functions are provided by the main developer with a third party developer providing a complementary module that addresses the needs of a specific industry. Often this provides a good option for a lower cost.
You will however find that the vast majority of accounting systems (read 90+%) are Windows based. Like it or not it's a fact of life. In that environment is where you'll find the broadest number of choices available. Do a search on http://www.google.com/ for accounting software or visit http://www.findaccountingsoftware.com/ to see what I mean.
.. we have several good browser-based accounting software systems, that is usable with Linux or whatever. For example Netvisor has integrated electronic invoices, banks (bank statements, payments, direct debit payments..), goverment e-services, invoice/document scanning by 3rd parties, ledgers, accounting of course, controller reporting and analysis, budgeting and a lot more. Though this does not help much, because it's localized in Finland (and semi-localized in neighboring countries), and Finland has a lot more advanced banking/goverment e-services infrastracture that in the states..
You people deal with checks? Amazing...
Honest, people expect the vendors to bend over backwards, and they have very unrealistic expectations. The sales person's job is to make money for their company in a smart way. And chasing every RFP with a 1 in 39 chance isn't smart.
And as I stated early on, my products do not directly fit into what he is looking for. He has looked at hundreds of companies, and I'm not one of them. I don't sell software in this field. I have something to add to the conversation - not facts about the product sector, but recommendations about his process, which, frankly, needs work in my opinion.
Evaluating products is a process - and it's not just comparing facts about product features. Successful business transactions requires respect of the other party. I'm not a party to this transaction... he is. So my recommendation is that he should show a little respect for the vendors and winnow the field down. It's common courtesy (which isn't so common these days).
Am I upset? Naaaah, I'm actually laughing quite a bit at this thread! But if you don't see my point, then I've failed to convince you (or him) - go ahead and conduct business your way. Send out 39 RFP's. See what happens! :) <--- there.. is that pissy? I don't even know what a pissy emoticon looks like!
If you want a thorough "answer these questions" response, then you need to convey that I have a reasonable shot at winning the business. 25% at least. Otherwise it's not worth my effort. There are plenty of companies out there and competing RFPs that I DO have a 25% or better chance of winning. Remember, it's not just me competing to do business with the customer, it's the customer competing with other prospects to do business with me.
The only time I have spent time chasing RFPs is if the application requirements that the prospect describes EXACTLY match my feature set (to the exclusion of my competitors). In that case, the prospect has conveyed some requirements, and I have assessed my probability as greater than 25%.
If I don't know who the competition is, or how many competitors there are, then it's a no-bid, or a boilerplate bid.
Don't you see an issue with your process that you are EXPECTING 60% to no-bid???? Someone who doesn't show me enough respect to winnow the choices down is not a desirable prospect, and therefore are NOT a prospective customer. I don't want customers like that - who show no respect for me or my time. To be successful in business, you need to make some tough decisions. One tough decision which I make on a daily basis is who do I want to do business with. Actually, no, my job is NOT to do paperwork. The job of the Sales department is to maximize sales. And companies are very clear about that. Trust me, chasing RFPs is NOT the way to do that. You significantly underestimate the time it takes to do a thorough job of responding to an RFP.One sales force I crossed paths with had a policy. Quotes to RFPs were uplifted by a sales cost factor amounting to $1000 per page of the RFP. That response to the 75-page RFP included a penalty $75,000 UPLIFT to the normal cost of the product. If you can't win the business with the uplift added in, then don't waste your time bidding it. And the sales force learned early on not to waste their time. This was a regional policy of a VERY successful company whose name you would surely recognize.
Think about what you just said. Say your "many thousands of dollars and multiple years of support" amounts to $100K, with 40K in the first year. If sales commission on that is, say, $10K and I have a 1 in 15 shot, then I shouldn't spend more than $600 TOTAL SELLING COST on that deal. If say, I'm trying to make $120K in commission a year (to make the math easy), then my time is worth $60/hour. So I have 10 hours to spend TOTAL on a deal like this. Responding thoroughly to an RFP (i.e. not boilerplate) is usually 4-8 hours, depending on the length. So by spending 4-8 hours on an RFP, my allotted time is about shot, and I haven't even gotten to do a demo. No thanks.
So you decide if you process is sound. No offense intended - you Asked Slashdot in order to get opinions, and I gave you one. Please take it in the spirit intended. I wanted to point out to you one vendor's perspective. Maybe other vendors will respond with an alternative perspective.
Anyway, good luck on your selection!
There is no way a competent auditor can not know how to do the accounts - you can not check what you do not understand. They are telling you that they have done their job, now you do yours.
If the UK is anything to go by, Payroll is the big stumbling block for running a full accounts system on Linux desktops. The government is always tinkering with the employment legislation, introducing new benefits and then removing them two years later. The commercial payroll software suppliers, and I'm thinking particularly of Sage here, have to stay on top of these changes, modify the software as well as the parameters every time there's a budget. They then have to roll out the changes to all customers in time for the new tax year and the updates MUST work. I just did a quick search on Sage's website and got the message "There were no results returned for your search criteria 'linux'." The accounting systems barely change at all so that's a much easier proposition. I'm curious now, has anyone in the UK got a payroll solution running on Linux desktops? (I'm talking native apps, ignoring wine for the moment)
...go ahead and conduct business your way. Send out 39 RFP's.
But that's exactly my point - he hasn't sent out 39 RFP's!!
I'm not arguing with your opinion of companies that do that, I'm arguing against trying and convicting someone for a "crime" they haven't committed!
I have a small software shop. I use nolapro. It's a hosted service and runs in any browser. I've used it a lot on Linux w/ firefox. The system is too complete for me, I don't use a quarter of it. It has everything you're asking for. I think they give free trials, so it's worth trying out.
Citizens Against Plate Tectonics
that's because he's right
You have apparently heard there's something called HIPAA. Good for you.
...
"Since he's a health care provider, the company is required to file their A/R electronically by HIPAA"
Why anyone thinks this is beyond me; why they'd be so foolish as to post it as a truth statement?
HIPAA does not just cover computery goodness. HIPAA also covers what staff say in public corridors. It covers medical records - paper or electronic. It covers FAX machines, for goodness' sakes.
It's possible that a large place with a lot of private-pay patients would indeed have AR and GL that would include HIPAA protected information. But that would be true whether the info was stored on paper, electronically, or by searing it in 6 point font onto the backsides of you and all of your spawn unto the 8th generation and keeping you chained in a malodorous pen out by the loading dock, periodically swilling you with waste from abscess drainages.
All of which would be fine ways to store the data, and the last might be an excellent way of speeding our fiscal audit. I'll have to look into the cost of bringing in a branding kit with movable typefaces.
There is no way a competent auditor can not know how to do the accounts I'm not an accountant but my understanding is the law requires an audit, not a competent audit. If they need help making Journal entries, I'm sure the consultants can provide that help for an appropriately high fee as well.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
This is a full featured accounting package that runs on Linux and other things. In Linux, it is character oriented. The package is designed to be customizable.
People who start small businesses often have some unique product or widget (pun intended). Most of them don't have extensive training in accounting, so they think "Accounting! That's something I have to do as a small business owner." So they go look for accounting software for their computers. Or, they hope for the day they'll be large enough to justify the expense of hiring an accountant.
Like most people who have computers purchased or ordered with the Microsoft OS pre-installed, they have been brainwashed regarding security threats and can become paralyzed with paranoia regarding software installation. But they still continue to cling to the Microsoft way; they do so because they don't know any better or that the essential concept of "competition" among businesses and how competition is facilitated by innovation and hindered by lack of information. But who competes with Microsoft? Perhaps I'm idealist, but I really think there should be another option for people who don't want to feed the big dudes in corporate and governmental bureaucracy or the marketing hype and associated with the iPod generation.
Quickbooks is set up to be idiot-friendly, run like an installation disk . . . like people who go to have their taxes done by H&R Block or Jackson-Hewitt sit through an interview process or "consultation" are essentially just answering questions they could answer online. Tax accounting is the least logical form of any accounting. (Interesting side-note: the last place I interviewed for a job, it became OBVIOUS to me that the person interviewing me had not even read my resume, which she obtained online, or the "questionnaire" I'd subsequently filled out at her company's request prior to her interviewing me. That interview went bad fast.) Why should people be subjected to such redundancy? Hey, if you can read and type and comprehend, you've got some marketable skills. Headhunters don't like me when I tell them I prefer to not print out my resume, as it's easily available and viewable just as I have formatted it online.)
The people at the top of the income brackets usually try to figure out some way to keep people working in the lowest income brackets working in those low income brackets for as long as possible using various tax deductions. I've heard from the mouth of one CPA (former inlaw -- reason for the formerness of the relationship; would you be interested to know that he is married to a realtor?) something quite unethical regarding printing out of receipts which do not exist in order to claim the tax deduction and for the purpose of "itemizing deductions"! And they do it because they think they can get away with it at the expense of the less fortunate, all the while claiming a "tax deduction"!
If a company -- moreover a "staffing company or agency!" -- doesn't even have a website, or if that website has a glaringly amateur webpage spelling error for one of the most important words to people seeking work in their specific , I think there's a reason for concern.
So, and Why On Earth is there a technically-literate class of homeless people in this country?