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Comments From Miyamoto On Wii, Industry
This past December, Nintendo designer Shigeru Miyamoto sat down with the Talk Asia program. It was only just recently translated and (via Ars Technica), CNN is carrying the resulting commentary. Miyamoto discusses the creation of Mario, the future of the Nintendo, the problems facing the games industry today, and the 'awesomeness' of the Wii's name. "I think anyone can enjoy video games. But some people shy away from them, just by looking at the shape of the console, or they think it is complicated when they have to plug the machine into their television set. However, I think if it is something that is simple to connect and play, it can be enjoyed by anybody, especially if they can interact with the characters. We also have to think about the themes of the games. There is an abundance of themes that people are interested in, and video games have only touched on few of them."
Nice. He's essentially saying the Wii is for morons.
Whenever I see a reminiscence about fun, yet somewhat dated PC games, the same group of popular gems like X-COM, Fallout, Star Control II, and Syndicate get the most attention. During these conversations, I always bring up a small lost gem, but very few have heard of it and even fewer have played it. This diamond in the rough? Rocket Science's "Rocket Jockey".
Published by SegaSoft back in 1997, Rocket Jockey lived a short life between being too powerful for some machines and yet incompatible with next generation PCs. In addition, the coveted LAN play-enabling patch was released far too late in the game, after any popularity Rocket Jockey had built faded away. Rumor had it the game would be released to the Playstation, but this never came to fruition.
Rocket Jockey is a game about a future sport; rocket... jockeying. As a Rocket Jockey, you straddle a rocket and ride it around a gladiatorial style arena at high speeds. Armed with a grapple on either side to help steer in a 19896 Batmobile fashion, you can enter any of three modes of play:
1) Rocket Racing: speed around an obstacle course to be the fastest competitor (or solo for a time trial).
2) Rocket Ball: a polo-style sport involving snagging balls with the grapple and whipping them appropriately into goals before your opponents can stop you or score more.
3) Rocket War: a gladiatorial battle against other competitors which involves ramming other rockets, snagging jockeys off their mounts with the grapple, tying various items (jockeys, rockets, poles, bombs) to other items (jockeys, rockets, poles, bombs) for style points.
Simplistic as they sound, this was an incredible and intuitive game, pure unadulterated genius. Besides the addictive game-play (oh, the screams of a competitor jockey ripped from his rocket and swung into a pole), what also stood out with Rocket Jockey was the classy style; down-home 1950's Americana sensibilities reminiscent of Interplay's Fallout series combined with snarky, nihilistic future ad designs. And the music. Oh, the music. The game was accompanied by a surf guitar soundtrack from none other than Dick Dale himself.
No game I know of has even come close to being anything like Rocket Jockey (Jet Moto?). And that's the clincher; it would be so simple to recreate today. To not give this game a proper revival would be a crime. And that's where the Wii comes in. The controls are a near-perfect match.
The rocket is controlled by leaning; left or right and you drift in that direction. Up or down were the same, though there wasn't much of a height radius (rockets only went, at most, ten feet from the ground, just enough to ram an opponent off rocket). This basic guidance could be controlled with the Wiimote, with emphasis based on increasing the angle the Wiimote is bent. Being a PC game, speed and launching and releasing the grapples (left and right) were all keyboard based. Velocity (speed, braking) could be handled with A and B, and the Nunchuk could conform to a nice grapple. Aiming was originally nonexistant; it was based on the rocket's angle of lean. With a slight adjustment an aim factor could be a variable handled by the analog stick.
This game was way too short lived and was so good it cries to be remade for the modern day. Fan attempts have been made to bring it to Unreal Tournament and other platforms. In a recent attempt to get in touch with one of the former developers, I was informed that lawyers constantly botched earlier attempts to get this game properly licensed for a remake. With my prodding, said contact did put forth the idea of porting or re-developing Rocket Jockey to the few remaining Rocket Science alumni. So far, nothing yet has come of this. If anyone out there can do anything for this game, I implore you to try. With the additional promise of online multi-player (or at least split-screen local), an update of Rocket Jockey has the potential to be a future solid gold hit.
they want cash
the change i'd like to see are open, affordable platforms
pls, keep your consoles, i'd rather stick to my free pc
It's a sailboat!
Dude, I know. Sorry. There should be an edit feature. And please don't give me any of that "hit Preview Button" hoo-hah. I post many a sailboat b/c I constantly omit hitting that button.
You may be surprised to learn this but there is more than one game available for the Wii.
My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
Personally, after finishing Zelda I started to play Red Steel which is not a particularly great game but is far better than the reviews would lead you to believe; from that I moved onto trauma center which is an enjoyable little game. Wii Sports still gets a lot of play at "parties" but Rayman seems to have been abandoned in favour of Wario Ware ...
... Mario Party 8 comes out in March which will (likely) replace Wario Ware at parties
We have Sonic and SSX comming up which I'm a little optimistic about
Rayman: psycho bunnies.
Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, LoadStar, and WingNuts... bring those back too... a rail shooter on the Wii probably works quite well (I haven't tried Rayman yet).
Go to "Preferences", click "Comments", scroll to the bottom, set "Comment Post Mode" to "Plain Old Text", and BAM! No more sailboats.
On the contrary, I am, as are my friends. We just had our second Wii party, complete with Sports, WarioWare and Rayman and are planning our third for this weekend. Did I mention the aveage age of the Wii-party'ers is 26? We're not a bunch of teenagers who get jaded and move on to the next shiny thing that quickly.
Considering I don't have a lot of time to play on my own, I'm still going through Zelda and Trauma Center. I still enjoy my Wii a ton, as much as when I first picked it up 2 months ago.
And all I have to show for it is a dusty unused console. I could have just bought Zelda TP for my GameCube, could have gotten my fill of Wii Sports at a friends house in one night. Now I feel like an idiot for falling for the hype. I would have already have sold my Wii if I wasn't so fucking lazy.
I honestly fell for the talk about 'amazing never before seen gameplay' with the Wiimote.
Yeah right. I would love to have someone point out where are these amazing games for the Wii in 2007 or 2008.
crashes into a wall of text
Break tags are your friend!
motherfukkin WALL of text
If you no longer want your Wii, now would be the time to sell it. Since they're still pretty tough to be had in stores you could probably get very close to retail for it. Same goes to everyone saying they don't play it anymore. Why keep it?
Unless, of course, the idea is to have it just to have it, which is a bad idea regardless of who's making it.
When the DS came out, the first year had games that were all novelty and pretty much stinkers. Forget Nintendo, remember the PS2 launch? Hopefully the Wii ramps up faster.
More Twoson than Cupertino
The controller is shaped like a remote control, something everyone is familiar with, the characters are cartoons, which people of all ages can relate to, and the controls are as simple as moving your body.
The success of the Wii validates everything Miyamoto says.
"Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, LoadStar, and WingNuts... bring those back too... a rail shooter on the Wii probably works quite well (I haven't tried Rayman yet)."
Rayman's rail shooter is pretty fun, but limited.
In other news, you posted a list of games without backing them up with a "why" they are good; that's where the parent sailboat poster wins. He explains his argument with more than a "it's a good game" and why it would work on the Wii.
Yeah, the only games Wii will ever have are those silly multiplayer games, like that sword fighting game called Zelda.
Personally, after finishing Zelda I started to play Red Steel which is not a particularly great game but is far better than the reviews would lead you to believe; from that I moved onto trauma center which is an enjoyable little game. Wii Sports still gets a lot of play at "parties" but Rayman seems to have been abandoned in favour of Wario Ware ...
:-P ) I sold Zelda and Rayman, but kept Red Steel. Zelda was of course very fun, but has very low replay value. (No, hunting down pieces of heart does not count as replay value.) Rayman was fun too, but lost its appeal quickly. People actually didn't even like it as a party game. To unlock the special shootout modes, you had to do a ton of easy shootouts -- just not worth it.
I largely agree. Red Steel isn't very polished, but on the important matter -- is it fun to play? -- it does very well. Most swordfighting games fail in that blocking requires an insane reaction time, but in Red Steel, it's an instinctual, intuitive motion. And believe me, you have not lived until you've made the leader of a large group surrender. (clank clank ca-clank-clank-clank as they drop their weapons
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
That is the dumbest shit I've ever read.
Quick and easy fun? And that's bad?
So, what? Gamers supposed "work" for our fun now? And isn't the 360's selling point the online multiplayer? That's hardly playing by yourself.
Time to reach around, and pull your head out of... well wherever you had to work to stick it in.
To make games that anyone (literally) can pick up and play, and enjoy, without the crutch of violence and fancy visuals. I like fancy visuals and I do like my counterstrike, but frankly they are truly deriviative and really add nothing truly new over their predecessors. It seems that to use less graphic power and not use the dramatic tension that violence provides requires the kind of out of the box thinking that this guy brings to the table. Games are supposed to be fun, they really are toys, (even the PS3 and 360). That's why you buy them. Those two systems don't have the mass appeal that the Wii is getting by sticking to it's path. And at the Wii's price... many people will get one fix on their 360 pr PS3 and the other with the Wii. In the end, you can have all the violent viseo games you want, but if you really just want fun games that you can play with anyone, it's much harder to do. This guy really deserves to be called a genius.
/sarcasm Obvious enough, I must be deluding myself into believing I'm having fun when I play Zelda, Trauma Center, Excite Truck, Elebits, Rayman, WiiPlay and WiiSports(all games I own) when I'm at home by myself, because no one can have fun by them self when using the Wii. NO ONE!
Ok, I'll bite. What is a "sailboat" in this context? Never heard that word used the way you are using it. And I couldn't find it in any lingo dictionary.
You know those pictures that basically are a huge pattern of colors but when you cross your eyes a certain way a 3d picture appears? Thats probably what he's referring to.
Why am I responding to a troll? Because its friday and I'm waiting for a train.
We love our Wii. Myself and my girlfriend play it every other night. When people come over they figit until we turn it on. We do need games I'll give you that but they will come. Its the DS all over again.
Miyamoto is still a luminary of game design, and I look forward to his future projects. Wii Sports is still incredibly popular (it just passed a million units sold in Japan, where it is not a pack in), and people are still waiting in line to buy units here in the US. Twilight Princess is an excellent game, though not having tried the GC version I can't really speak on it being more immersive than using a controller. I still play my Wii whenever I can find time, as does everyone I know who has one. In addition to Wii Sports, games like Wario Ware, Rayman, and Excite Truck continue to be a great deal of fun, and I still haven't had time to start on Trauma Center due to playing the other games. Add in the virtual console and a long list of games I want there, and the Wii has an amazing lineup already, and enough to keep someone who doesn't spend there whole life playing video games busy for some time to come. Whenever the NPD numbers for Jan come out, I think we will see that the Wii is continuing to dominate console sales, given that stores can't seem to keep them on the shelves for more than a few minutes at a time.
As far as Miyamoto and Nintendo at large being able to access new markets, my mother has purchased both a DS and a Wii in the last 3 months. She wouldn't even allow my brother and I to have a NES when we were growing up, so that's a pretty big shift for her, largely due to a fresh look at game design being encouraged by Nintendo.
Something I've learned over the years is just how dangerous it is to try to base your marketing on claims of innovation. Unlike most other marketing claims which people let slide, people tend to actually hold companies to their innovation claims.
I have seen a trend where people use to refer to the Wii as innovative, but now we are seeing more and more Wii owners referring to the console as 'innovative' with bitter sarcasm. Not good. Very similar to the problems Apple gets themselves into with their similar claims. Works great for you core fanbase but ends up doing a great deal of damage to attracting people outside that core group.
Without having graphics or online play to fall back on, the Wii getting a reputation for being 'innovative' and not innovative is a troubling sign for the future of the console as we move beyond the holiday sales rush.
I have a question for you.
I have a Wii, and I love it to bits. I've been playing it a fair amount. I also have a PS3. I haven't gotten a game for it yet, because none of them look interesting.
I have more than one 60+ character on World of Warcraft. I own a Sega Genesis+Sega CD, SNES, 3DO, Saturn, PS1, PS2, and N64. I have something in excess of 200 various games for PC and Mac. I have written my own video games for my own amusement, I have done major revision work on one of the roguelike variants, I've contributed code to Angband (which was even in the official distribution for a whole sub-release before the entire spell system got converted to lua!), and I probably spend in excess of twenty hours a week playing video games. I have published papers (admittedly, not peer-reviewed) on game design and usability.
And yet, I think the Wii is clearly well-suited to people like me.
So, is the problem that, having an advanced understanding of video games, I am not a person with only a basic understanding, who would naturally prefer the PS3?
Seems to me that the Wii is a much better machine for [b]playing games[/b] than either of the competitors. Yes, they have very impressive graphics. The Wii has a controller which is flat out better for playing games. Since I'm interested in playing games, not watching photorealistic cut scenes, playing movies, or otherwise doing things which are not "playing games", the Wii is by far the best of the current options.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Miyamoto use to be absolutely godlike in his ability to come up with enduring gameplay elements in his games. It is so sad to see him now pretty much just towing the Nintendo line
It's pretty difficult to be a rebel when you are the one in authority.
As Miyamoto says, he's no longer a Nintendo employee. He's on the board of directors. He's also the head of EAD.
He's not "toeing Nintendo's line", Nintendo's toeing his line. I don't think some people realize how powerful he is. He has nearly as much authority on paper as Iwata and probably more in practice, because CEO's come and go but the loss of Miyamoto would be devastating to the company. He is not just a game designer. He is one of Nintendo's top executives, and he oversees all game development for the entire company as well as most hardware development.
Yeah man, I'm only 21 and I remember playing the demo of Rocket Jockey obsessively. I couldn't have been no more than 8 at the most. I loved tethering other driver's to the poles and then watching them squirm. Good times :)
mmm...muffins
Such simple people. All the games on the Wii are so Incredibly easy. Go play a real game that test your abilities.
FYI: Those are all games by Rocket Science, the studio that made Rocket Jockey.
How can you consider the Wii to be the best system to purchase based on the controls when most of the games currently on the system make the controls feel tacked on.
The Wii is a better machine for playing party games, but when it comes to FPS or adventure it sucks. The PC and other consoles provide a better controls.
I'm sorry, but if you want to boost the price of Sony stock, you'll have to troll elsewhere.
That statement is so poorly considered I felt compelled. . . nay, obligated. . . to register so that I could respond to it.
I am 30 years old. I cut my gaming teeth with games like Silent Service for the Commodore 64. I've owned so many gaming systems I shudder to think about it. The Wii is on that list. The 360 and PS3 are not (yet). I've seen no reason to shell out those kind of bucks for a system that I have little interest in at this point. When the price comes down and the libraries interest me, then I might pick one up.
"A group a people that don't have a basic understanding of video games." Really? Let me teach you the two basic things to understand about video games. . .
1) Video games are for fun/enjoyment (in general, you masochists). Pretty graphics != fun. While the PS3 and 360 might have better graphics, I haven't seen anything yet that I thought "I really want that, that looks like fun". Wii is meant for quick and easy fun? That sounds like a winner to me every time. Your statement makes me wonder why you play games in the first place. It sounds like for you, pretty graphics and FPS games are fun/enjoyable. That's fine, go buy your PS3 and 360. I haven't heard a reason yet to denigrate the Wii.
2) Video games make money. Right now, the Wii is definitely making money. Especially because of its appeal to the general public. I would venture a guess that the Sony folks who aren't thinking long-term are getting very nervous about now. Nintendo has my respect in going for the casual gamer (i.e. large market) instead of the hardcore (e.g. teenager without a job). There's a large untapped market, and an entry level economics class will teach you that untapped markets are the easy money.
Until the Wii entered my house, I was usually playing games by myself. Part of the reason I love the Wii is that my wife/mother will play it with me. That doesn't mean I don't still love Final Fantasy Tactics, and Twisted Metal Black, but it does mean I don't play them as much anymore.
So I suppose my point is, please go play with yourself, and leave your drivel/troll unposted.
This sig was generated randomly by one million monkeys with Speak 'n Spells. . .
Done.
Thanks.
Isn't it a little early in the console's life span to be making calls like that? Twilight Princess is probably one of the best adventure games out there, if not THE best. Also, the Wii has the potential to be the perfect FPS machine, and as developers learn to develop for the Wii remote I am sure we will see some incredible FPS titles hit the Wii. Your argument is flimsy at best!
The 360 and PS3 will always win when playing games by yourself. Wii is meant for quick and easy fun.
But Prostitutes are meant for quick and easy fun too, and they've been around for like, forever. And most of the time, you get a prostitute by yourself.
Ok, I'll bite. What is a "sailboat" in this context? Never heard that word used the way you are using it. And I couldn't find it in any lingo dictionary.
Little Girl: Wow. It's a schooner.
Willam Black: Ha ha ha ha. You dumb bastard. It's not a schooner... it's a Sailboat.
Little Boy: A schooner is a sailboat stupid head.
Willam Black: You know what, there is NO Easter Bunny! Over there, that's just a guy in a suit!
Mallrats references are awesome.
-- toolie
Yes, because playing and beating a game like The Immortal is a sure test that you are a true gamer. What an awesome argument you've made.
I don't always play games to test my abilities. I play games to *gasp* have fun.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
"Looking out over the coming year's Wii release list of games there is absolutely nothing that is revolutionary or disproportionately innovative relative to other consoles"
/. enjoys something different than you. Really. Get over it.
Conveniently neglecting the fact that this generation of consoles has not had anything remotely revolutionary with the exception of Nintendo's control device. Heck, just the release of a Wii version of a new Zelda game makes the Wii a must-buy if you're a serious gamer.
But what's so revolutionary about this generation of video games? 3D graphics? No. The PS1/N64 were the first. Everything else since has been a refinement of graphics. Last generation, Microsoft had the innovation of a coherent online strategy. This generation? There was no need for it except that people's televisions are getting better and we wanted prettier graphics.
Big deal.
Nintendo has already released a critically claimed and very popular console. It has a revolutionary control device. That's the only innovation so far this generation of consoles. No doubt, Sony and Microsoft will add it this generation in a limited way and fully integrate it in their next generation in 2009/2010.
It sounds like it bothers you that Nintendo has taken all the wind out of the Sony and MS's sails with the Wii. The only thing it means is that Sony won't be the decisive leader like they were with the PS1 and PS2. The PSP really hasn't done that much. Sony has proven to be very fallible in the video game market. That's good. It will force prices lower across the board. It will put pressure on Sony to increase value or lower price. Microsoft is just quietly humming along. And Nintendo has exploited a big opening by Sony when they prices their consoles so high.
As to getting bored with Wii Sports. OF COURSE YOU GET BORED WITH IT!!! It's a free demo game Nintendo threw into the box to demonstrate how the controls could be used. It also got people talking about the box. It was a brilliant piece of marketing, and at no cost to the consumer. Another mistake by Sony... exploited by a more nimble competitor.
Don't worry about Wii or Sony or markets, or anything like that. Just buy what you want because it's fun to plan. Not because you believe some half-assed fairy tale about how this console will last 10 years, or that it produces "Toy-Story" in real time, but because you enjoy it.
And don't worry that somebody on
Isn't the point of any video game pretending to be something we aren't? Whether it's a soldier, a racer, a hedgehog, a fat plumber, a surgeon, a guitar master, or a field marshal; all video games place us in positions we do not normally have access to. That's the appeal of video games.
Like any other media each genre (and any particular sub-category or instance thereof) will appeal to some gamers more than others. You can note that you do not agree with his taste in video games, but insinuating that his standards are somehow flawed because he chooses X over Y is disingenuous.
In the end, every character we live vicariously through in video games is "half-assed", as we are not actually living that dream.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
A little bit off topic but Mario Party 8 was delayed to Q2 2007. EB Games has it coming out in 6/1/07. Just thought to let you know.
It's a reference to the movie "Mallrats" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113749/ ).
In the movie a character named Willam tries throughout the movie to see one of those "3D Pictures" (where you make it out of focus and see a 3d scene http://www.magiceye.com/ ). The picture he is trying to see is of a Sailboat (or as a kid points out in the movie, a "Schooner").
So, basically, the poster is saying that the original post looks like a huge jumbly mess.
Friedmud
Sell it on ebay. You'll get at least $200.
If you don't like it, you don't like it. You can easily recoup most, if not all, of your money by reselling. They're still hard to get, the price is low. If you put it on "buy it now" on ebay for $200, you'll have it sold within the hour.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Not fun enough to make me want to drop that kind of money to play them by myself. Not when I have a cheaper alternative that can involve my family. Which standards do you refer to exactly? Graphics? Popularity? I have one standard. I have to enjoy the game enough to justify it's cost to me.
I haven't played a FPS that held my interest since Half Life and Deus Ex. I find the control scheme on the PC vastly preferable for FPS games anyway. Crackdown? Another GTA clone. MotorStorm? Wooo, another racing game. Hold me back. I notice that the first thing most reviewers talk about on any of these is the graphics. Not interested. I don't even own an HDTV. It sounds like your standards differ greatly from mine.
Trauma Center doesn't look like fun, so I don't own it. Rayman is fun for me (in bursts at least), and moreso for my wife, so we own that one.
Honestly, the most fun I've had on my Wii thus far has been Wii Sports and Pikmin for the GC. Both of those were "free" to me.
My point is simply that not caring so much about hi-res graphics and FPS/racing games (which permeate the 360 and PS3) does not mean folks don't understand games. At the end of the day, we all have to decide what is fun for us, and how much we're willing to pay for that. I am certainly not willing to pony up the bucks for those systems yet, because my $:fun ratio would not be very good. Was I interested in Dead Rising, GOW, ChromeHounds? Yes. Enough to pony up for a 360? No.
FWIW: My favorite genre (judging by number of purchases) is strategy. You don't see games like Total War on a console. Hell, I'm currently playing The Ur-Quan Masters (http://sc2.sourceforge.net/). There's some high tech stuff for you. So far, it seems like fun, and it cost me nothing.
This sig was generated randomly by one million monkeys with Speak 'n Spells. . .
"What exactly are people doing with their Wii? People can't possibly still be playing WiiSports."
I'm still playing Wii Sports every day, mostly doing a quickie fitness test and maybe a game or two of bowling or tennis. Outside of that, my family also gets in games of ExciteTruck, WarioWare, and Wii Play (which is decent for a $10 disc), along with Super Mario Bros. on the Virtual Console.
I admit it's a little light at the moment, but Sonic and the Secret Rings and SSX: Blur are coming within the next few weeks, so I'm not hurting for deeper games.
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
This is so outlandish I fear you must be some sort of troll (and if so, congratulations, you got me).
What sort of idiot would spend $600 on a console and never use it? Did you even open the box? I could understand not buying any games if you wanted to use it to watch Bluray movies with it or something, but since you apparently have no intention of doing either, I have to assume that either you're a moron, or you're so rich that you can afford to just throw away $600. (Or both... I can't rule that out!)
When I moderate, I only use "-1, Overrated". That way, I never get meta-moderated!
Hint: Go poking around for articles with my name as a byline.
Did you know that the PS3 runs Linux, and has a Cell processor?
Did you know that I write a LOT of material about Linux, and a lot more material about the Cell processor?
I have a very compelling reason to own a PS3, which involves neither movies nor games.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
" We debated how the Wii might be thought of in the English speaking countries. And we came to a conclusion that there is no other choice but to use this short, appealing name." No matter how they try to spin it, and regardless of its success in the market, "Wii" is still a horrible name for a product. I know some people that will never own one, in part because of its idiotic name. Fortunately for Nintendo their poor name choice doesn't seem to be hurting sales. Otherwise, they'd currently be in a stiff competition with the PS3 to see which game system could occupy more floor & shelf space at retail outlets.
Let me guess--you're the guy in line behind me for a Wii, and when there
weren't enough, you "settled" for a PS3. So now you've never actually
played the Wii, and you're pissed that you spent $600 on a console when
all your non-hardcore gamer friends are at the house of the guy who stuck
it out and snagged a Wii.
Seriously, I had no intention of ever buying a console until the Wii
caught my attention. I don't have the time or the inclination to spend
hours a day learning arcane controller-button sequences. With the Wii,
the controls tend to be completely intuitive.
Please play platform before speaking. Tacked on controls? Have you ever used a Nintendo controller? Gamecube was the easiest to hold off all 3 of the last generation, I know this because when my tendons acted up it was the only one I could play for any length of time. Nintendo has done wonderful things with ergonomics compared to MS and Sony which are ok, but a little awkward if you examine wrist rotation and thumb placement.
Now let me examine how well it is integrated with the system. Well rotating the Wiimote also rotates the cursor on the system menus. You can also pick up Miis and shake them by pinching them between your thumb and forefinger. Red steel also uses this to drag around save files and options. In wii sports tennis position of your racket and twist of your wrist determines angle and spin of the ball just like in real tennis. I has simular experience in the bowling game. The moves are simplified so my friends can play almost as well as me, but my skill in these sports gave me an edge initially because normal motions translated so well.
Well what about other games... Smooth moves, Rayman, and Wii Play the controllers are INTEGRAL to the very game concept! I can not even fathom where you are coming from...
Now Sixaxis is obviously tacked on, I have never found a use for the "tilt" controls on the PS3. Also the idea of moving and aiming via very small thumb motions on BOTH X360 and PS3 is counter intuitive. I never realized how absurd it was until I played a console where I could just point and shoot. (Wii and computer)
Some may argue that computer is best controller for FPS, but I feel this is usually true because you get more modes of simultaneous entry (i.e. buttons) so you can circle jump strafe while shooting rockets at your jumping-strafing-wall-hopping friend. I am sorry but "computer" controls do not impress me either as I have yet to see a paint ball opponent strafe-jump out of my line of fire.
Lastly I dislike a computer control because after a long day programming I frequently CAN'T use it due to arm pain. I will grant that mouse is a great control vehicle as it makes aiming and selecting items easy, but this is the same concept as the Wiimote. You point you hit, but on the wiimote you point at the item and on the mouse you are moving it in an abstracted fashion that is 90 degrees out of phase with the screen. (Try to get your kid or grandfather to use a mouse for the first time and watch them struggle to figure out how to move it - the level of abstraction is a noticeable barrier to entry for new players.)
Now wiimote is far from perfect but I salute Nintendo for making a step in the right direction and look forward to seeing what the other consoles come up with for the next generation. This is a definite beginning of a new paradigm for consoles control.
The same way I can consider the Wii to be the best system to purchase when elephants are usually a vivid pink and fly around using rocket packs.
Since, right now, most of the games I have do not "make the controls feel tacked on", your question refers only to a hypothetical situation which does not obtain.
Written like someone who hasn't played it. There is simply no way I can imagine being persuaded to play another analog stick shooter, having had access to an actual pointing device on a console. The Remote kicks the ass of analog sticks for aiming. PC controls are arguably even more flexible, but the Wii is a lot easier to use. (Admittedly, the FPS games out for it have mostly been lame; amusingly, Elebits, while not at all FPS-like in plot or structure, has the controls of a fairly nice FPS.)
But as an example, consider Wii Sports. I dismissed it at first as being really simplistic, but I thought I'd try the tennis a bit more, and then I discovered something: In fact, there's a lot of control over the ball in that game. It doesn't LOOK like it at first, because I am not a tennis player, so I didn't know anything about control, but in fact, just playing has gotten me a lot more skilled; I can now aim the ball, most of the time. Suddenly, an apparently "tacked on" game has become a really good experience. The controls are not just subtituting "wave your arm" for "push the swing button". No, the controls are using arm motions for aiming, for lob, for spin... For all the things you would actually control with your swing playing Tennis.
Similarly, I've gotten smacked down by multiple 3D Zelda games in the past because the controls are always a little obnoxious; most noticably, I hate trying to aim with an analog stick while something is trying to hit me. In Twilight Princess, aiming is effortless and instantaneous, and the net result is that the game is a lot easier.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Miyamoto-san is a genius. He is clear about whta he has to do for the Wii, and I know he will do it perfectly.
Minti: What's that huge shuriken in your back?! Kin: It's the instrument of my victory.
I think so. I'm waiting for the better shooter games and such to come out, but its just like any other console, with worse graphics and better controls. Personally I prefer the gameplay in for instance Madden on the Wii to any sports game on any other console. For someone like me, who is not a true gamer, but a recreational time waster, the wii remains really fun.
Hah, you act like a measly six hundred bucks is some vast fortune. What's the weather like over there in Cambodia?
ALL I want is a wii sports golf game. A full one with the right swing mechanics. I want the graphics to stay the same as in the wii sprots golf in wii sports. I hope nitnendo does that. For soem reason I love the graphics in that game .
I remember those toys you would desperately want when you were a kid for Christmas and they were a blast Christmas day when you finally got them. And then a few days later they were abandoned off in some closet or corner after you realized you were dumb to fall for the marketing hype. What exactly are people doing with their Wii? People can't possibly still be playing WiiSports.
Hmm, this got modded flame bait for some reason, but I think its a legit point
Top 10 Reasons To Procrastinate
10.
> I know some people that will never own one, in part because of its idiotic name.
The words: Superficial and Image-whores come to mind.
Those people are the idiots, not Nintendo.
*CLAPS LOUDLY, EVEN OBNOXIOUSLY* That sir is quite an achievement. Part of me wants to call you a liar simply because I know what that feat means, but I will take you at your word. Congratulations.
Any advice for the rest of us?
So are they all good enough to warrant being remade, or were you just making a statement?
I agree that Rocket Jocket warrants being remade.
Preach on, brother!
Thanks to the Wii, I'm finding myself excited by the prospect of playing video games. The last time I was this excited was when my parents owned a Commodore 64, and most games were controlled by a joystick with one fire button.
I'm no gamer. Always wanted to be, but the controllers always put me off.
------RM
But he's crazy. You can't let him near the controller design people or he fucks it up (N64 and Gamecube) Nintendo had a great controller in the SNES pad and then he goes and does his batshit "I have a great idea I haven't really though through" and then they implement it, badly.
Agreed. However they spent alot of time refining the motion controls (which work wonderfully), and not enough on the pointer. Why is it wonky even in menus or picking a play? I don't get it, but I love the ability to change my guy on the line to a specific player by pointing rather than cycling through them (when it works). It's not even a fault of the remote, just (IMHO not enough attention or time on that 1 aspect). If Madden 08 fixes that, and offers online play I'd be thrilled.
Also, I can't wait to see the Wii Tiger Woods...
Ok, you worked on Angband and prefer the Wii? Wouldn't you rather have a console that you can play Angband on? Meaning the PS2/PS3?
Hmm, this got modded flame bait for some reason, but I think its a legit point
It was meant to be flamebait, so it was modded flamebait. They made the presumption the Wii is only capable of one thing, is a passing fad, and that buying it would be a mistake. They could have phrased the question in a different manner do ask a legitimate question, but didn't. To take the flamebait out of the question and simply ask "What exactly are people doing with their Wii?"
Currently, I use the Channels (internet, weather, and news) almost daily, and the games I'm playing (currently) are WarioWare: Smooth Moves, Mario64 (on the VC), and F-Zero GX. I just bought Wii Play and will try that out tonight.
Cheers.
"And yes, most adults shy away from things they are certain to fail at on their first try. There's SO many other things to do that don't involve failure that it's not a big surprise to me."
Clearly you've never golfed.
Actually, the only thing weird about those controllers was how they looked.
The N64 controller introduced a fair number of concepts we still see in controllers today. The Analog Stick and the Trigger being the principle ones. Certainly they were both elements of generations of joysticks that came before, but not since the Atari days had anyone bothered to consider them useful. Nintendo saw that with the advent of 3D games the analog stick would be imperative, and did something about it.
Most importantly, you need to remember that Yamauchi was dictator at Nintendo at the time. It was his vision that guided the aestetics of the N64 and the Gamecube. The Gamecube and Gameboy advance were purple because he wanted them to be so.
My experience with both controllers was positive. They were comfortable and effective at their tasks. I will grant you that the N64 controller's analog stick was easily worn down if you played demanding games such as Mario Party (the original one wreaked havoc upon it) and that the positioning of the Gamecube controller's analog sticks was slightly less orthogonal than the Xbox's. However, to call him 'batshit' is ludicrous.
We owe Miyamoto, and everyone like him, our industry. If 'batshit' is what it takes to make good games, then we should all be 'batshit'.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
Oh sure, from a game design point of view he's the good sort of batshit. Still thinks like a kid in some ways. But controllers...ugh.
I loathe the N64 controller, every time I pick it up I wish I could hook up a dual shock to the N64. It's too big, too bulky, too heavy and the analog stick, though better than what had come before, quite frankly sucks. The Gamecube controller, though better, has those wacky buttons equally sized ones are better, for more versatility in control setups, and that funky little right stick and too small d-pad.
And what really drives me batty is that the SNES controller is perfect and Nintendo couldn't figure out how to copy themselves and add a analog stick, which is essentially what Sony did. They essentially admit they were wrong with their old controllers with the new Wii classic controller.
That's the kind controller I wanted the N64 and Gamecube to have.
These are all lovely sentiments, but I'm afraid that Nintendo hasn't done anything I've even remotely been interested in for a solid decade. N64: ridiculous controller, barely 3D. Gamecube: flopped. GBAdvance: great potential for handheld gaming technology, reduced to truckloads of franchise rehashes, currently fossilizing in my drawer. DS: gimmicky. Wii: forces developers to "innovate" (i.e. come up with new ideas that they can't capitalize on through other consoles).
We're fat and lazy. We need the extra hand to hold our double Big Mac and/or cell phone. You need to study up on your American stereotypes :)
Miyamoto use to be absolutely godlike in his ability to come up with enduring gameplay elements in his games. It is so sad to see him now pretty much just towing the Nintendo line as the company tries to market old technology with a pointer tack on.
Miyamoto is "toeing the company line"? No, my friend; Miyamoto is the company line. Have you never heard of the Miyahon Check?
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(there, I did it for you)
I'm a HUGE fan of the Nintendo DS. What a GREAT system!
However... I stood in line for the Wii for 9 hours. After which I was so happy. 2 weeks later we were all playing Gears of War on my roommate's xbox360. What happened with the Wii? No interesting games is what happenend. No only play is what happenend.
I then put my Wii up for auction on eBay, someone local to me said they had store credit and no money. So, I traded him my used Wii + games + accessories (roughly $390 worth) for a brand new sealed premium 360, gears of war, and controller charger (roughly $520 worth).
I couldn't have made a better decision. Xbox live arcade continues to be a wonderful source of entertainment, and the ability to video and voice chat with my friends who are in the military or dispersed for other reasons is wonderful. Tons of multiplayer fun, tons of new titles. Xbox live arcade delivers updated (online enabled, achievements, ranked tournaments) games for the same cost as the dusty old Virtual Console games. Don't get me wrong, I love many of the games on Nintendo's Virtual console.. However, when the 360 delivers updated arcade content for the same price as original 16-bit content I can't help but to feel completely and utterly ripped off.
Plus, the graphics on games like Call of Duty just BLOW (i hate that game anyway, by the way... I get tired of playing the SAME DAMN WWII shooter... ZZZzz...).
Once Nintendo comes out with online play and/or some decent games I'll consider purchasing a new one. But, seriously.. What an underwhelming launch... It's a launch that relies solely on Zelda and novelty, which wouldn't be so bad compared to other console launches if it wasn't competing with the 360.
Not to mention that after owning both a Wii and DS I've come to the conclusion that the stylus is just more fun to use than the Wii controller as a pointing device. The benefit of the controller is its motion detection, developers! We don't want to have to point and aim the controllers at the screen. The wiimote is NOT a stylus, and doesn't feel all that much link one.. Trying to play any first person shooter on the damn thing is damn near impossible! Play Metroid Prime: Hunters on DS... The damn thing controls like a DREAM! The Wiimote is a different type of input device than a stylus, you could make FPS controls much easier by tilting and rotating it to change the view rather than pointing the remote at the screen. As it is now there's no sense of immersion, and I'm not exactly your average gaming newbie either...
Wii has lots of problems, however I have high hopes. If they stop ramming our anuses with the Virtual Console prices (or hell, by all means charge the same and UPDATE THE CONTENT FOR ONLINE PLAY PEOPLE... SHEEESH!) and actually learn to use the controller we have a lot of gaming joy ahead.
Just not so much right now...
AR: So this it - the thing everybody's been waiting for. Let's give it a whirl. Ready?
AR: Oh, backhand!
AR: This is absolutely amazing. How long did it take to come up with something like this?
It leaves alot to the imagination... I don't even want to know what's going on here...
People will buy it in expectation of games to come. I have a $750 GC for EB game. This is the for the PS3, some accesories and MGS4 when it comes out. Some people get it earlier to allow them to watch blu ray. MGS4, FFxiii, GT:HD are all motivations for me to get the machines as well as my 80 game back library of sony Ps2/Ps1 titles.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Circumcision is child abuse.
So what's this "very compelling" reason? You've got me on the edge of my seat.
Touch everywhere, even when inappropriate.
So it's ok to compare the Wii to the Second Coming, but it's an offense to claim that it's not all it was cracked up to be?
Sounds like a bunch of fanboys just want to silence an opposing opinion.
Are you telling me that people in the US learn how to drive using automatic transmission? That's... in...teresting (Okay, I was about to end that word in "sane").
And I hope you don't design any kind of UI as part of your job. Although I think you might be the idiot who designed my P990i's interface.
The N64 controller was pure genius. When it came out, Nintendo probably wasn't sure whether the analog stick would work out. So they created a controller that could both be used like a traditional controller, or like a controller with an analog stick, or like a controller with two directional elements, thus creating a controller that was backwards- and forwards-compatible. This controller works with sidescrollers and beat-em-ups as well as it does with 3D jump-n-runs or FPSs.
And apart from the Xbox S, the GC controller was easily the best controller of the last gen. The only two problems with the GC controller are the d-pad (which is way too small) and the z Button (which I think was only put in there for N64 compatibility).
No, they're not. These buttons are pure genius: You don't need to remember their names. If a game tells you to press "X", it's always shown using the shape, size and color of the button itself, which instantly makes it obvious which button is meant. I'm still not always sure which button is "x" and which is"triangle" on the PS[1|2|P]. Nintendo got this right.
Yeah. I'm still pissed about the NES, too. That god damned D-Pad is never going to fit anything other than Mario Bros. What the hell was I thinking? It just doesn't work very well in reality, and the real innovative games will never hit the shelves.
360: over a year of great games. Wii: pretty much the launch lineup and a few newer games which missed launch. Nintendo actually only sent out the online dev kits a few weeks ago. Anyway, in Europe, we just got Excite Truck, which I love. So I'm happy for now :-)
I play the training mode and a few rounds of Wii Boxing almost every evening. I'm also only about 25 hours into Zelda - I try to make enough time to play a few hours every few days. In europe, we just got Excite Truck, which I absolutely love - it's Mario Kart with trucks, twice the speed and huge jumps. It's an incredibly pity that there's no four-player mode.
I also tend to read the news on my Wii from time to time, and I bought about a dozen VC games (Comix Zone is a blast, A Link to the Past is an absolute must for those who never played it, there's Mario Kart 64...). And then, there are the GC games. If you own a Wii but have not owned a GC, there are a ton of games you've missed: Zelda: Wind Waker, Four Swords (again, you need friends and a bunch of GBAs for that), Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4, F-Zero GX, Mario Kart: Double Dash, the Bongo games...
What really keeps the Wii going, though, is the party games. People often come over for a few rounds of Wii Tennis, Warioware, Wii Play (some people just love the panzer game), super Monkey Ball or Rayman. If you have no friends or don't game with them, the Wii is probably not for you right now. If you do, there's no better console.
Oh, and if you don't game with your friends, force them to play with the Wii! Some of my (mostly female) friends who claimed they would never touch a console actually call me to ask whether they can come over for a few rounds of Wii Tennis. It's quite astonishing.
It's a pity that there aren't more A-List Wii titles available right now, but it's not as if there was nothing available to do on the Wii.
but you also have to position, align, and affix the sensor bar
You can't be serious? I put it on top of the TV and aligned it with the top edge. It's a 30 second job. And most of that is pulling the paper off the double sided sticky tape.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I guess it all depends on how you say something. Isn't human nature fascinating? Glad you found out about its existence, even if you're a bit late to the game.
Yes, some of the controls of the launch games feel tacked-on - Zelda could have done more with it, for example. However, even in this state, they are simply better than comparable traditional control schemes. Twilight Princess on the Wii quite simply controls much better than Wind Waker.
Furthermore, claiming that the dual shock provides better control for FPS than the Wii remote is, quite simply, utterly absurd.
Let me guess: You're six years old? Did daddy leave his computer running or something? Fun fact: "Mature" games are actually targeted at teens. Another fun fact: Children prefer the 360 and the PS3 over the Wii.
Thanks for that explanation, and I'm sorry because my former post was indeed rude. Yes, my pal was driving with a manual, and I did not realize that the G6 does not have a real manual.
It amazes me that some people who could remember the SNES button layout or other extemely complex things (like how to frickin code) say they can't remember the trianglel, circle, X, square layout of the dual shock.
Clockwise from top: triangle, circle, X, square.
or if you map it to the SNES layout: X, A, B, Y
The PS signs simply don't make sense. The letters make sense. They're from right to left, BA is bottom, YX top. And as I said, the Cube buttons also have distinctive forms, which makes it dead simple to figure out which one the game is talking about.
They're playing Wiife Beater.
Speak for yourself. I find your post Ironic in that I have each of the aforementioned Nintendo games for the Wii (if you count Mario64 as the 'Mario' game) and I beat Gear of War on Insane, Enjoy Dead Rising immensely and will eventualy get around to Rainbow 6 Vegas... (That is after I get all 120 stars in Mario64). These games are extremely fun for anyone who isn't overly concered that playing them makes then 'teh Kiddie'.
If you want to play a game 'for Kiddies' go play DoA Beach Volleyball 2 with the new, and improved 'jiggle engine'...
I play Angband on a desktop computer. I don't need a console for that. Angband would suck badly on a console; it depends on a huge array of key options and a screen with a huge amount of data, rather than on simpler graphics and fewer buttons.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Hee.
No, actually, I hated Animal Crossing. Too materialistic for me.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
I don't think you got the point:
Take a PS3 (or PS2) with the officially supported ability to run Linux, ability to output at high resolutions, 1080p for the PS3, 1080i for the PS2, and USB ports for a keyboard. They meet your requirements, so what's the problem. I've played Rogue, Nethack, and yes, Angband on a PS2 with the LInux kit.
Where have you been to not know this was possible>
And since Angband can be played ASCII aren't it's graphics simpler than any PS2/PS3 native-mode RPG?
Yeah, fun games totally went out with the last millenium. It's all about games that are excruciating to play. I hear the next console from Sony will include electrodes in the controllers, to shock players at random intervals (hardcore gamers love this sort of thing: it keeps them on their toes)!
Seriously, guy. You need a better hobby than this.
Canthros