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FCC Report - TV Violence Should be Regulated

tanman writes "CNN reports that a draft FCC report circulating on Capitol Hill 'suggests Congress could craft a law that would let the agency regulate violent programming much like it regulates sexual content and profanity — by barring it from being aired during hours when children may be watching' The article goes on to quote from studies showing a link between violent imagery and violence in life, and discusses the 'huge grey areas' that could result from ill-defined concepts of excessive violence." Government as Nanny, or cracking down on an excessive entertainment culture? Which side of this do you find yourself on?

76 of 346 comments (clear)

  1. Choices choices... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Which side of this do you find yourself on?

    I think I'd prefer the gratuitous sexuality. That's way more fun than violence.
    1. Re:Choices choices... by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 2, Funny

      I agree with that. I'd rather have some hardcore deep dicking than some pair of conjoined twins joined at the head on TLC. (The learning channel my fucking ass)

    2. Re:Choices choices... by Yvanhoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      seconded
      Also it would be a good idea to correct MPAA's rating which considers that one boob seen shortly makes it "not suitable for children" but where gunslinging is considered okay.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    3. Re:Choices choices... by whereiswaldo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I sent a complaint to Discovery Channel because of the advertising. I'm not sure if it's they who determine the advertising - maybe I should have complained to my cable provider?

      Anyway, it's pretty sad that I can't watch a TV show with my kids that has nothing bad in it because the commercials in between are totally unsuitable for kids.

      I know there's a lot of crap on TV shows but I try and avoid those. However, the advertising is another big area that needs more thought put into matching the rating of a show with the rating of the commercial.

  2. Remember, kids... by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 5, Funny

    Gratuitous, horrific violence is OK, just as long as you don't say any naughty words!

    1. Re:Remember, kids... by User+956 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Gratuitous, horrific violence is OK, just as long as you don't say any naughty words!

      Senator, is that you?

      --
      The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
  3. Limit or Ban? by chill · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I believe this is fairly common in Europe. I remember movies like Red Dawn and one of the Rocky pictures either being forbidden or having to be re-edited for viewing in Germany.

      I've always found it strange that the U.S. has such conflicted a conflicted attitude towards sex, with numerous "morals" laws and restrictions, yet a massive hard- and soft-porn industry. Contrast that with the pretty much "anything goes" attitude towards violence which the American public seems to revel in.

      I don't mind them limiting the hours it can be shown, but I would have a problem with them trying to ban it totally. As is, I refuse to watch a lot of television because of the levels of violence. I just don't want to see that stuff and don't find it entertaining at all.

      For the same reasons I won't go watch movies like Saw or Hannibal Rising. Silence of the Lambs was good, but Red Dragon and Hannibal Rising were nothing more than an excuse to see how disturbing they could get.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    1. Re:Limit or Ban? by JasonStiletto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd like to see more generosity toward what can be shown now. I hate the idea of living in a culture where things slowly move toward everything being made appropriate for children. It's little wonder when people are given a choice they move away from broadcast TV. All entertainment shouldn't be reduced to the lowest common denominator, but there will always be pressure for it to do so.

    2. Re:Limit or Ban? by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 5, Informative

      The FCC is not illegal. The airwaves are a public resource, and the goverment can make any rules they want about the type of content that can be distributed over them.

      --
      Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    3. Re:Limit or Ban? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The FCC was formed to keep all the broadcast frequencies straight and make sure phone lines got strung out to the boonies.

      This business of being America's censor is something a little newer, and a lot more questionable. Their role as pimp for the big advertising companies like ClearChannel and the rapacious monopolies like AT&T is newer still. They're still trying to figure out this Internet thing. When they do, we are well and truly screwed.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  4. Yes but no by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'd say that there needs to be some censorship in this area, but it needs to be well defined like it is here in the UK. You can show violence, sex and whatever else you like AFTER 9pm, up until 9pm you have to keep it tame. This means people can still show anything they like but parents have a fairly good idea of what will be involved after the watershed (9pm).

    --
    I like muppets.
  5. Here's an idea by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stop regulating content completely and let parents do the regulating with parental control settings that are on pretty much every digital cable box nowdays.

    1. Re:Here's an idea by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not everyone has cable, oh no.

      If it's unregulated there is absolutely no reason why they could not show a snuff film in the middle of the playschool kids TV hour.

      Regulation if done correctly is a good thing, if done badly is it a horrible thing.

      --
      I like muppets.
    2. Re:Here's an idea by chaoticgeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But if a snuff film was to come on then I'm sure parents would not allow that channel to be viewed anymore, thus resulting in the network going "oops" and learning from that mistake. I'm gonna bet that even though the network wants more ratings they are not going to go off the deep end to get it because once they take it too far they will get burned for it.

      --
      hello
    3. Re:Here's an idea by Chysn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Parents are the most important part of regulating children's viewing. Not just the content, but the amount of TV should be regulated by parents. My young son has a TV in his room, and I have the V-Chip set to block pretty much everything but TV-Y and TV-G programming without violence. But every so often, 24 comes on at 8:00. Now, I love 24. And I, as an adult, choose to watch it. But I don't want my little kids seeing it. And the oldest of them is still awake at 8:00pm. I don't begrudge the violence in 24, or the right of the producers to create programming with that level of violence. But does it have to be on at 8:00? Of course, it also bugs me that they casually use mild profanities on the TV Guide Channel at ALL hours. I mean, I'm trying to see what's on TV while my kids are in the room and they've got programming in the top half of the screen that says "damn," "ass," and "bitch." What's with that? Why do I need to mute the damn bitch-ass TV Guide Channel? That's another thread.

      --
      --I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
      -- See?
    4. Re:Here's an idea by jandrese · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You act as if the TV companies would be completely psychotic, history has shown that they have a large vested self interest in not alienating their viewers. I think a deregulated TV would be a lot like our current TV except with a bit more nudity at night, and even then they would be coy about it. They wouldn't be dropping snuff films in between Captain Kangaroo and the Teletubbies because the advertisers would pull out of both shows instantly and the parents would not let your kids watch your channel anymore. It would be suicide as a company and it's not going to happen.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    5. Re:Here's an idea by bkr1_2k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe it's me, but wouldn't it be easier to not put a tv in his room? Far easier to control content that way than by hoping the v-chip works as it's supposed to.

      This is part of the problem, no offense to you (I've been guilty of it too), but parents using the television as a babysitter instead of doing things with their children. I'm not saying we've lost our way, but children need interaction and conversation. They need touch, and laughter, with their parents (or someone in a similar role), not just in general, in order to understand that life is full. Life has ups and downs, death happens life goes on. Violence isn't the way to deal with things, etc etc etc.

      Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now.

      --
      "Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
  6. dumb move by Sh1fty · · Score: 2, Interesting

    that's rubbish. tv violence has nothing to do with real life violence. the source of violence is bad parenting. instead of wasting all this money they should've given it to someone who could use it to really solve this problem, like social service or schools.

    1. Re:dumb move by cliffski · · Score: 3, Interesting

      you would do well to read about Bhutan:

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,975 769,00.html

      This is the last country on earth to have no TV, until 2002. When foreign TV was introduced, complete with violent porgrams, the crime rate in the country went ballistic. The country now has all kinds of social problems that were previously unheard of.
      People often claim you cant tell the effects TV has because there is no test case. they are wrong Bhutan was a perfect test case, and a damning one for showing TVs potential negative effects.

      "Since the April 2002 crime wave, the national newspaper, Kuensel, has called for the censoring of television (some have even suggested that foreign broadcasters, such as Star TV, be banned altogether). An editorial warns: "We are seeing for the first time broken families, school dropouts and other negative youth crimes. We are beginning to see crime associated with drug users all over the world - shoplifting, burglary and violence..."

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    2. Re:dumb move by Pizaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      However, causality between the violent content in the programs that were broadcast and real life perpetrated violence is not established. For instance, what if the real destructive factor of TV is a) the social isolation and passive (non interactive) aspects it introduced into their culture that started keeping people at home watching crap instead of going out with their friends and families. b) the blatant materialism worship on tv that makes the viewers feel crappy about being a "have not." c) various other false imagery and notions about what is beautiful, what is desireable, how you should live your life, etc that eroded away in a few short years, hundreds of years of culture. So rather than single out violence in TV, i would simply say TV in general is a source of social and personal rot.

    3. Re:dumb move by Shelled · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I lost brain cells reading that article. It was entirely the work of uncredited Guardian staff (sorry, I skimmed quickly to ease the pain) without citations from an academic authority to bolster the wild conjectures. Since we're making shit up out of thin air then, let's try this. Bhutan was a completley isolated and closed dictatorial monoculture for millenia, overnight exposed to the entirety of the Western low-brow culture at a single blow. The flood of new ideas and concepts are the root of disruption. The Bhutan case makes as good an argument against Eve biting the apple.

  7. Sex or violence? by fantomas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    USians demand right for ultra-violence in media, get upset about female anatomy being shown (e.g. Janet Jackson's boob on tv). Europeans get upset about kids getting exposed to violence (big fuss in the UK at the moment because 5 teenagers got shot dead in the country in the last month, people really worried about level of violence) but happy with nudity... go round France, Italy etc and there will be billboards by the side of the road with topless models advertising perfume etc.

    mmm... your choice :-)

    1. Re:Sex or violence? by Zarhan · · Score: 4, Informative

      USians demand right for ultra-violence in media, get upset about female anatomy being shown (e.g. Janet Jackson's boob on tv). Europeans get upset about kids getting exposed to violence

      Heh. I remember that once they had this commentary on some softporn show (might have been Playboy late night or something) about ads in Europe. The narrator was all fussed up "how can you actually remember the product when watching this commercial"....and it was a Rexona ad, with two women taking a shower after a workout in gym. I had seen that same ad and never thought there was anything sexual in it...but hey, being a Finn and frequently visiting a sauna I have never thought that nudity automatically implies sex.

  8. Alternatively... by muecksteiner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they could rule that any violence shown on TV must be absolutely realistic.

    Not the idiotic "bang, you're dead" type "violence" that you see all day long in gangster films and the like.

    No, they would have to show the real thing - where someone who is shot takes quite a long time to die, and does so under very disconcerting circumstances.

    My guess is that people would turn off their TV sets rather than watch something like that. And they would complain on their own accord - "think of the children!", but this time it would be a grassroots thing, rather than something which is being mandated from the top.

    And to boot, having seen such scenes would probably make children a lot more squeamish about playing with toy guns and "shooting" people as well...

    Or perhaps I'm still too optimistic about people in general - perhaps doing something like that would not achieve anything, except turning the nation's children into hardened psychopaths much faster than they are now... :-)

    A.

    1. Re:Alternatively... by robably · · Score: 3, Insightful

      they could rule that any violence shown on TV must be absolutely realistic.
      It's a noble sentiment, but unworkable. The impact on the friends and relatives of people who are killed never ends. To be "absolutely realistic" the TV show would have to go on forever, showing suffering that you can't fast-forward through, you have to live through it hour after hour. How do you show that in a TV show?
    2. Re:Alternatively... by misanthrope101 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      My personal fantasy is that the interrogations done at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib are filmed then shown on US TV. Every frame of the show would have a message at the bottom denoting the percentage of people in these facilities who were released because there was zero evidence linking them to terrorism. People have this fantasy that torture is okay because "we know they're a terrorist, and it'll save lives" but the real world isn't much like an episode of 24. If people had to face the consequences of the policies they support, maybe the support would be a little less common.

      But then again, I also want the press to have free access to areas recently bombed by our military. We should get to see the bodies of people killed by our tax dollars. If the bodies happen to be of enemy combatants surrounded by weapons and bombs, great, then we can make an informed decision to support the bombing. But if 90% are noncombatants with nary a weapon in sight, then, well, we still get to make an informed decision. What we have now is propaganda funded by us, voted by for us, designed to bolster our own support for war by lying to us. Lewis Carroll couldn't have written a more nonsensical plot.

  9. bogus by gravesb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The FCC found one study that gives them evidence to extend their authority, ignore the Constitution, and further entrench the government in our lives. What a surprise. Really, for an organization that was initially designed to de-conflict the radio spectrum, the FCC sure has expanded. Police powers are supposed to be left to the states. The federal government is intruding on their power and citizens' rights. If its so bad, parents should do their job and not let kids watch it. If its so bad, then no one will watch it, and they will put on other programming. The thing is, people are watching it, and its what people want. Let me make my own decisions, and stop trying to be my parent. That's not the purpose of government. Defend me from the big, bad media companies, please, cause I don't have the common sense to turn off the TV and read a book.

    --
    http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
  10. Iraq? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well that's one way to get the Iraq war out of the media before the next election, ban TV coverage under a "think of the children" violence clause.

  11. They want to stop KIDS from seeing it by MichailS · · Score: 4, Informative

    not adults. So keep your knee-jerks in check. You will get to see your gore, only late at night.

    I'm a grown-up man who has watched action movies all my life, and I am getting pretty sick of the violence. It sometimes seems like directors try to one-up each other with titillating depictions of evil and suffering.

    I'm pretty sure mankind doesn't have an innate NEED to hurt each other despite what some psychologists hypothesized a hundred years ago - rather that it is a quick problem-"solving" (ego-scratching) solution that many stick to - and I'm pretty sure that if you expose people to violence all their lives they will become violent. Monkey see, monkey do.

    Another interesting thing is that in Sweden we have only a fraction of the level of violent crimes as compared to USA. I don't think we are by nature a more docile people, it's rather probably the result of a lack of handguns and generations of limited media violence. And we haven't had a war in 200 years.

    1. Re:They want to stop KIDS from seeing it by Oligonicella · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not true. Sweden had 10K volunteers to Finland when it was invaded. But, even given that, I'm not so sure it's a great selling point to proudly point out that Sweden stood still and allowed the German's roll over the rest of Europe.

    2. Re:They want to stop KIDS from seeing it by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      . . .it's rather probably the result of a lack of handguns. . .

      Indeed, it's a well known fact that before the invention of handguns you people were complete fucking wussies.

      Hammers existed before nails; your ancestors used them to hit each other over the head. The tool is not the cause.

      KFG

  12. Good lord think of the children! by tomstdenis · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Fuck the children [not literally], I pay for cable not them. If cable/tv/whatever is bad for them, then make a law banning them from watching TV.

    Why should I be left with shite "family oriented" programming when I'm the one paying the damn bill?

    When 6 yr olds start paying for cable maybe then we should consider what's in their best interests.

    Tom

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    1. Re:Good lord think of the children! by tomstdenis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but the point remains they want to remove adult themed shows in place of the children oriented crap. I may remind you that most "children" programs nowadays that are approved by the likes of the CTS and AFA folk are TOTALLY DEVOID OF ANY EDUCATIONAL OR SOCIAL MERITS.

      Long gone are the days of "mathnet", reading rainbow, bill nye the science guy, mr. wizard, and the like. Nowadays kid watch shit like anime, power rangers, teletubbies [wtf?] and the like. They're not "children shows" they're just mindless noise with less violence and more religious [but not moral] parading.

      If you were actually in it "for the children" you'd be for shows that teach kids science, literature, history, etc. Not bombard them with mindless commercialism.

      In short, this has nothing to do with "think of the children" and more about a minority exerting their will on the rest of humanity. It's about power and control (whoa, common theme!).

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  13. Not today by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "by barring it from being aired during hours when children may be watching'

    Ten, fifteen years ago I might have agreed with this. But we have TV ratings now, and we have V-Chips that can cut off content based on that rating. So long as the ratings accurately describe potentially objectionable content in a program, of what possible use is rescheduling it as well?

    I can also foresee some sort of chilling effect: I seem to be under the impression that, after hours, broadcast television can show practically anything up to hardcore pornography, but even after midnight you'd be hard pressed to find a bare female breast, and then only on basic cable or some European import on PBS. Of course, I can agree that perhaps we do want a chilling effect on violence, but there's still the First Amendment and all.

  14. Why give a damn? by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Television exists to stuff the viewer's eyesockets with advertising. The programming content serves to keep your eyes "glued" for the advertising.

    There's little of value on television that one couldn't learn more profoundly by going to the library, reading an encyclopedia article, talking to someone knowledgeable, taking a walk, or just reflecting. And anything that television does teach is likely not as worthwhile as any of these alternatives.

    Television being what it is (consumer hypnosis, not education), it's hard not to conclude that television is really meant to be a significant challenge on the obstacle course preventing serious thinking (and political action) in this brave new world.

    Bad government and multinational corporations thank you for watching.

    --
    Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
  15. So... by Alicat1194 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No violence, no shooting, no riot scenes? I guess the 6pm news will have to be delayed until 9pm then?

    --
    You can learn a lot about a person if you just take the time to inject them with sodium pentathol
  16. Re:So watching porn stops rape? by all204 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I second this. This is the reason that soldiers train shooting at human shaped silhouettes. This habituates soldiers to fire at human shaped things rather than at abstract bullseye. This way there is less hesitation when the time comes to do it for real.

  17. Re:They did it before by tha_mink · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They can do it again. It's funny you say that because I've always thought it was funny that you couldn't show a nipple on TV, but you could show a bomb going off and killing people in a crowded hospital or somebody getting shot. America is funny like that. I always thought that violence and sex would even out on TV but I always thought that it would be that more graphic sexual content would be allowed instead of violence being banned. Teee-hee...who knew.

    I also think that it's funny that if you do anything under the guise of "news", you've got a free pass. Dateline, 20/20, etc, show the most graphic shit on TV but it's OK because they're "news" programs. Ick.
    --
    You'll have that sometimes...
  18. We NEED this! Since it's obvious that.... by oDDmON+oUT · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In an age of personal un-responsibility Americans have seemingly abdicated their will to use the most obvious control....the bloody OFF switch on the TV.

    Of course this would mean losing the electronic baby-sitter so many have come to rely on.

    Geez! What's a parent to do?

    --
    Some days it's just not worth
    chewing through my restraints.
  19. Re:So watching porn stops rape? by ikkonoishi · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, since I started playing Natural Selection I sometimes find myself fighting the urge to drop from the ceiling and parasite, chomp, chomp someone.

  20. Onn the contrary ! People would watch ! by aepervius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why do I say that ? Well remmember the Roman ? As far as I know death & blood were not faked. And somehow I doubt people were forced to watch, or stopped watching in disgust. Look at when there is an accident the number of passerby which comes and watch. Usually what slow down traffic is less the clown which have a look than the accident itself (especially true on 3 or 4 lanes freeway). The majority, if not all people, have this morbid streak to look at the misery of other and think "well at least that was not me". Make it real and people will not only be even more desenstivized to true violence, but they might even STARTS to enjoy it...

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  21. As a libertarian this is better than worse, sadly by JymmyZ · · Score: 2, Informative

    Alright, I haven't read all the comments, so I hope I'm not just repeating what someone else says (I doubt it, the quality of posts around here has been weak for a while) I'm normally all for libertarianism, the government should stay the hell out of how I live my life, until it starts affecting the lives of other. But I think I have to admit that I might side with the "censorship" side of things on this one. Sadly, WAY too many people use TV to babysit, and I really don't see why we need to highlight violence when there's healthier and, well I guess, better things to highlight with the power TV has. Sex and love and doing what you can to help your fellow man aren't intrinsically void of good plots, and they can certainly lead to great ideas and stories that could help guide the impressionable to make our nations really great again. It's a shame that the people who come up with the drivel on TV, with the real power of thought-control they have, waste it on the crap that's fed to us. There are a few smart shows out there, but most of it just helps feed negative messages to the viewers, feeds that consumerist need, and leads to a wasteful life. If suggestions (sadly in the form of legal controls) from the government can help reduce negative images and (hopefully) encourage more positive thoughts in viewers then I'm forced to agree with their doing so. But of course this "censorship" will likely be politically motivated in some way or another and won't serve any purpose but that of the people who want to enact such a law, and it'll just further fuck up an already sick nation. I guess that's the reason I'm against governments sticking their grubby hands in places they shouldn't be.

    --
    The unexamined life is not worth living
  22. Re:Yes but no but by blackest_k · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the 9pm watershed is outdated when we have such a wide range of broadcasts. cable satellite. The simplest solution with digital broadcasts woiuld be an age rating flag.

    let the user set the level they want to recieve and blank the channel when it exceeds thier set rating.

    Parents would appreciate the ability to keep thier tv kidsafe when they want and allow the rest of us access to what we want to watch when we want to watch it.

    some of us adults have to be up early in the morning, a 9 oclock watershed means limiting our viewing to family safe content.
    Do you really want your tv limited to broadcasting quiz shows sitcoms and soaps before 9 so called family entertainment?

    of course kidsafe tv is open to the parents disabling it entirely it would also entail parents buying into the scheme (quite literally as it would require some new hardware). Of course this would mean an end to our tv regulators deciding what is suitable for us to see.

    It also makes it possible to block tv licience funded broadcasts and make the tv licience opt in for viewers.

    Of course self-regulation wouldnt be acceptable to the current regulators, would it .

    extending this idea might allow users to block particular broadcasts. For example anything featuring michael barrymore or noel edmonds or chris moyles or janet street porter. They don't necessarily break any standards of decency but i'd rather not have them in my living room.

    actually now this does present the real dilema. If a broadcaster flags a show as in a particular catagory you then are trusting that broadcaster to always be right. Thats the problem with giving them the control of censorship of your viewing.
    maybe the real solution is the off button and parents taking responsibility for thier choice of what is suitable for thier kids to see.

    I do like the idea of perhaps dynamic self censorship.
    pick what offends you and have a database of the schedules flagging what you want or don't want to see.

    maybe i just need to press the channel change on the remote.

  23. Why violence is tolerated more by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, the basic fact is this. If there is violent content on TV or a movie, something really gross, parents have no qualms about engaging in a conversation with their kids and telling them the other side of the story and letting the kids know the right from wrong when it comes to violence. But most parents are very uncomfortable talking about sex to their kids and providing them with a balanced picture. In a ad-supported medium like TV they tend to prefer censorship. If they have to pay for content, like they do for print magazines or books, they usually dont bother. So it is easy to snicker at the parents and the American public for tolerating heavy doeses of violence and flipping out at the first wardrobe malfunction. But the fundamental cause is that there is not enough paid, ad free alternatives to TV. If that becomes possible, GoogleTV or AppleTV or Akimbo service or whatever, the demand for censorship will vanish. [Typing without my contacts. Please forgive typos.]

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  24. Americans and Sex by drgonzo59 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    You actually make a very good point. I have always wondered how come violence is so accepted in U.S. and sex is not. Is it the puritanical legacy?


    Sex is something very common, a part of a _normal_ life. Violence is not! A 12 year old can see someone's head being blown off but 'Oh my god! Shield them from seeing someone's genitalia on TV."


    I don't advocate showing pornography to children, but I think they should be able the see the statue of David. I just don't understand why for so long, violence was accepted, but sex was not.


    If I had to choose one or the other, I would accept the display of sexuality to children than the display of violence.


    I grew up in Eastern Europe, and I have to say that when coming to U.S. I was shocked of how sexually repressed this country it. There was a story in the news how a theatre changed the title of the 'Vagina Monologues' to the 'Hooha Monologues' -- WTF!?


      A vagina is a 'hoohaa' now, because a grandmother didn't want to tell her granddaughter who is old enough to read what a vigina is? Well, what the hell is a hoohaa then?


    There is a reason why there are so many substitute words for female genitalia in English (hoohaa, pussy, box, coochie, hole, snatch, slot, nooch, fanny -- just a couple I could thin of right now.) This is direct result of sexual repression.


    Also, a couple of years ago, when 'March of the Penguins' was in the movie theatres, I was watching it with my wife and there was couple with their young (6-7 year old ) daughter. There is a scene in the movie when the penguins are mating. They were not showing close up of genitals or anything like that. The mother got up, yanked the daughter by her hand and dragged her out. The girl didn't quite understand what to make of her mother's reaction, she got scared and started crying. Then they came back later, just in time to watch the penguin baby chicks die because their parents couldn't take care of them. I thought, 'how sad', that poor girl...


    At the same time. This is one of the most violent countries in the world. It is not because of the guns, it's irrelevant, people own guns in other countries but the don't necessarily shoot each ther with them.


    And then there is the problem with violent video games. Children in Europe play violent video games. I love Doom, Quake and all of the other ones. But those children do not go and shoot each other as much as the American children. It is as if we cannot simply blaim ourselves, and our culture for disasters like Columbine, we have to blaim video games, or some other things that we can all point a finger to.


    Sorry for the rant. Hey if Linus can have a nice 'healhty' rant at the GNOME desktop, so can I at the American society ;)

    1. Re:Americans and Sex by nomadic · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You actually make a very good point. I have always wondered how come violence is so accepted in U.S. and sex is not. Is it the puritanical legacy?

      No offense, but I think that betrays a very eurocentric viewpoint.

      What I've found is in most cases where someone categorizes the U.S. as unique, especially in a somewhat negative way, they're ascribing qualities that are actually quite common--just not in Europe.

      There are many, MANY cultures where violent imagery is culturally accepted, but sexual imagery is even more restricted than in the U.S. I'm thinking of the Middle East and Asia especially.

    2. Re:Americans and Sex by drgonzo59 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      No offense, but I think that betrays a very eurocentric viewpoint.

      None taken

      I only spoke about Europe and U.S. because I live for a long time in both of those parts of the world. I didn't not try to be 'eurocentric', I don't think Europe is 'better' and 'U.S.' is worse. If I did, I would be living where it's 'better', trust me. I was just comparing attitudes and values. That's all. I cannot claim anything about Asia and Middle East, as I have not been there and did not extensively study their societies and cultures.

    3. Re:Americans and Sex by skymt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One good explanation I've found is that sex is considered a private, intimate thing, to be kept in the bedroom; it's not exactly something you see on the street. Violence, on the other hand, belongs in public (so it can be known and stopped). Public sex and private violence are equally disturbing in the American view.

    4. Re:Americans and Sex by tyresyas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are many, MANY cultures where violent imagery is culturally accepted, but sexual imagery is even more restricted than in the U.S. I'm thinking of the Middle East and Asia especially.

      Oh, yes, eurocentric. He should apologise for comparing us to the more technologically advanced and socially aware civilisations. Clearly, in America, we don't belong with them. I mean, we have the death penalty (unlike every EU member country and then some) like China, et al., we repress certain rights of homosexuals (unlike many European countries) just like the Islamic theocracies, I mean, who would EVER confuse us for trying to be ANYTHING like the Europeans. Clearly we're trying to suppress ideas in disagreement with the government and the Bible...

    5. Re:Americans and Sex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's not really how it is treated around children, though.

      Sex is taboo. Children should not know about it. Parents are afraid to talk about it with their kids, and they protest loudly when the schools attempt to educate their children about it.

      It goes so far, that I have seen christian churches teach kids in sunday school that original sin was Adam and Eve's nudity, not that they ate the fruit they were forbidden to have.

    6. Re:Americans and Sex by Shelled · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Asia? Many Japanese broadcast programs are full of sex and nudity, and more than a few classic Hong Kong flicks would be considered soft-core in the US. You couldn't have meant Thailand. Perhaps you were thinking Sinapore, where (it's said) even chewing gum is illegal? I do agree your country's mores are beginning to have a lot in common with the religiously fundamentalist sectors of the Middle East. Why you consider having elements in common with dictatorships and theocracies an argument for your point is another question entirely.

    7. Re:Americans and Sex by tyresyas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In some of those countries, there may be popular support for the death penalty (from what I hear). The only problem is that their great leaders roped them into the European Union which has saddled them with certain rules. There is also popular support for restricting immigration in some of those countries, but many leaders refuse to act (not unlike the U.S.).

      As for Islamic theocracies, there is a difference between not allowing homosexuals to marry and collapsing a wall on them. A lot more discrimination that unequal marriage rights happens to homosexuals in the US. Is there a distinction between that and collapsing a wall on them nevertheless? Yes. But someone used the comparison between the US versus Asian and Middle Eastern countries as a point of reference, which, to me, should be an embarrassment because we would, I think, be in favour of adopting the Westernised ideals that we so self-righteously push on the Middle Eastern countries to which we are comparing ourselves. The point is this: if we're using comparison with other countries as argument for the validation of certain policies and phenomena in our society, we shouldn't be checking that we're like the countries that collapse walls on people.
    8. Re:Americans and Sex by neomunk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point is this: if we're using comparison with other countries as argument for the validation of certain policies and phenomena in our society, we shouldn't be checking that we're like the countries that collapse walls on people. I just thought that that should be repeated.

      Mod parent up.
    9. Re:Americans and Sex by Scudsucker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As for Islamic theocracies, there is a difference between not allowing homosexuals to marry and collapsing a wall on them.

      We put a man on the moon and you're happy that we aren't as bad as a theocracy on human rights?

  25. And where are you free speech ideologues now? by Concern · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You know, the ones who talk about Fox News' sacred right to broadcast propaganda and call it news?

    You know, the sacred right they've had since the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine in the last decade or so?

    When you talk about government regulating what they say on TV, some Republicans trot out the constitution like a prayer rug and wave it all around in the air. Their Speech Is Free. How dare the government regulate the media.

    (I mean, the government has to decide who can broadcast. And it can only pick a few lucky people, and everyone else can't broadcast on pain of huge penalties.)

    (But aside from that, those lucky few should be able to say whatever they want on TV. If you don't like it, print a newspaper.)

    The Republicans said, Americans are smart. Americans are free. Americans can handle their own media without getting confused. They don't need anyone to look out for them. They choose what media to watch and what not to watch, and if they happen to see something not so cool when switching channels, oh, they can handle it.

    And they are lying through their teeth. They don't really believe a word of that.

    Their coming out to censor the media like this is how you can tell.

    You're supposed to be able to take care of yourself when consuming the information that powers, oh, this entire democracy. But not be able to handle some violent or sexual imagery.

    Megalomaniacal hypocrites.

    --
    Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
    1. Re:And where are you free speech ideologues now? by sp3d2orbit · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're supposed to be able to take care of yourself when consuming the information that powers, oh, this entire democracy. But not be able to handle some violent or sexual imagery.

      To all my Puritan-Facist copatriots: please stop legislating morality.

      This whole issue of censorship is a simple problem with a simple solution.

      Problem: There is certain material that people don't want themselves and/or their children to see.

      The solution is as simple as Slashdot's tagging system. Content producers should be required to tag their programs with descriptive verbs like violence, nudity, etc. They already do this to some extent with the TV-Y, TV-MA rating system.

      On my end, my cable receiver should be able to filter out programs with tags I don't like (violence, nudity, gospel). Problem solved.

      The whole argument is not really about what should be censored, but who's value system is correct. Some people thing violence is worse than nudity/sex, others aren't offended by mating and think gratuitous violence is repulsive. Everyone's values are different, the problem arises when one group (the Puritan-Facists Fuckheads) tries to impose their morals on the whole populace.

      The entire TV and movie rating system is based on the prejudices of these fanatics. It's not OK for a 7 year old to hear "goddamn", but its OK for a 13 year so long as there is no sex; sex and cussing OK for a 17 year old unless, of course, there is too much sex, then you have to be 18, or 21. Oh yeah, violence is OK at any age level.

      Its time to move away from such a narrow definition of morality and arbitrary age gateways.

    2. Re:And where are you free speech ideologues now? by shmlco · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What constitutes violence? A gunshot victum rolls into ER for treatment. Blood everyone. Violent? Suitible for kids?

      Another corpse rolls up onto the beach and the CSI morge digs into it to determine cause of death. We never see the shot, simply the results. Violent? Suitible for kids?

      A couple argue about an affair and she slaps him. Violent?

      ER again, where a patient off his meds starts struggling and flailing about, knocking equipment and doctors everywhere. Violent?

      Ultimately, tags are not a "simple solution", because on one hand some overly-rightous type can come up with reasons to consider practically anything "violent", effectively eliminating anything he doesn't like. Whereas another person could consider "violent" being ripped open with a chainsaw.

      To quote, "The entire TV and movie rating system is based on the prejudices of these fanatics." And I agree. The problem with your suggestion is an old one: who draws the line? Label anything you don't like violent or "mature" or "adult content" and millions of set-top boxes block it automatically.

      One could, I suppose, rate "violence" from a range of "mild" to "extreme", but again, who decides? Whose "value system" is in charge? Who draws the line?

      Besides, most STB's already let you lock channels, shows, and ratings. If you think CSI may be too violent for your 16-year old, watch a few, then decide for yourself. And above all, don' let someone else make them for you.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  26. Re:They did it before by BruceCage · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sexual content and violence should be regulated by the government exactly the same, which is no regulation at all. I'll admit there are a couple of extremes which obviously need to be regulated, but in general this isn't something the government should concern itself with.

    This however is an excellent idea, let the users regulate themselves by adding an age flag in the transmission. Regulation such as that suggested by the report only adds another annoyance factor to a medium which is already plagued by them.

    --
    Perfect is the enemy of done.
  27. Re:Congress shall make no law... by jcr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    heaven forbid that you should do things for the good of all.

    Defending our rights against government encroachment is one of the things that we do for the good of all.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  28. Re:Yes but no but by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    some of us adults have to be up early in the morning, a 9 oclock watershed means limiting our viewing to family safe content. Unless you own a video recorder.

    I do agree, though, that a set of flags in digital broadcast would be good. On the back of DVD and video boxes, you have the amount of violence, sex, and strong language listed. It would be possible to add corresponding flags to the digital TV stream and allow people to install their own filters. If you have it set with a sufficiently fine granularity (maybe put it in the frame header) then something like a TiVo could even re-edit the stream for you. It made me laugh when I was last in America how the sound track on films would suddenly cut out for a second when someone swore, but this kind of thing would be possible on the client side with sensible metadata. If you're not watching something live, then it could even cut scenes where the sex or violence flags hit a certain threshold.

    Interestingly, the DVD spec actually has a way of doing this already; you can create multiple paths through the same video footage. I believe it was designed for showing films with and without deleted scenes, but it could also be used to show a lower-rated edit of the same footage. To my knowledge, however, no DVDs have been produced that implement this.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  29. This just in... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Funny

    Government agency announces it should have exanded role, increased powers. Experts reportly shocked at this development.

    Chris Mattern

  30. A great movie that explores this idea... by Pollux · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's funny you say that because I've always thought it was funny that you couldn't show a nipple on TV, but you could show a bomb going off and killing people in a crowded hospital or somebody getting shot.

    I just watched the movie This Film is Not Yet Rated. Kirby Dick does an amazing job opening up a peephole into the MPAA. He reveals to the audience that there is no formal criteria for what makes a PG movie a PG movie, and what makes it different from a PG-13 or an R-rated movie. (Although he does a hilarious Flash-like animation that describes the obvious differences between the ratings, but to the MPAA, there is no formal, published criteria.) The only judges who determine what rating a movie gets are people hired by the MPAA to sit in a room and judge for themselves, without any rules or guidelines to follow whatsoever. What bugs the movie industry so much is that this "process" is kept a complete secret to everyone, including movie producers, outside the MPAA, and no one is "supposed" to know who is on this panel of raters (though Kirby Dick uses a private investigator to discover who is on the panel, and reveals that to the audience).

    The documentary does a fantastic job as well exposing the double-standard between rating sex and rating violence. Here's an interesting fact taken from the movie: if the producers of a movie ask for the aid and equipment of the US armed forces, military commanders require their personal screening of the movie before it is allowed to be distributed. If they find any objectionable content which they determine sheds the military in a bad light, they'll demand the content be pulled or edited, less the movie never sees the light of day.

    I guess there are reasons for why we encourage our kids to watch violence.

    1. Re:A great movie that explores this idea... by Cylix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, you are not going to borrow anyone's equipment and then say something bad about them...

      It's kinda common sense.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    2. Re:A great movie that explores this idea... by rogerdr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except that the equipment doesn't belong to the military, it belongs to us.

  31. So you're going to regulate Jack Bauer? by kentrel · · Score: 4, Funny

    Good luck!

  32. Re:They did it before by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Sexual content and violence should be regulated by the government exactly the same, which is no regulation at all.

    That is exactly correct. All such regulation is illegitimate; the 1st amendment to the constitution says "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press" It doesn't say "except for violent or sexual expression", nor are there any constitutional amendments that say anything of the kind. The 1st amendment is directed at the federal government (which covers the FCC quite nicely) but also keep in mind that the 14th amendment is directly interpreted by the federal government, via the courts to mean that the bill of rights (amendments 1-10) applies to the states as well.

    At the time, speech and print was all they had; generalizing to video is a no-brainer, if they'd thought you could send pictures from here to there without being burned at the stake. The idea translates exactly.

    This is just one example of many where the US government has stepped far outside the hard boundaries that its constituting authority (the constitution itself) set. Keep in mind that any censorship law the government makes is completely illegitimate. There is no possible legitimacy for laws that directly violate the constitution's prohibitions without proper revision of the constitution, meaning, a constitutional convention covering the appropriate changes, and ratification of those changes.

    Remember that a government that steps outside its constituting authority has only one authority left, that of force and coercion. That's not even similar to the claimed authority of a king; that is what forms the basis for a dictatorship.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  33. Re:They did it before by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I disagree with an age tag. Who's to say what's appropriate for a 12 year old or a 17 year old?

    What I'd like to see is something similar to PICS. There are different categories. For example (from ICRA):

    languagesexual, languageprofanity, languagemildexpletives, nuditygraphic, nuditymalegraphic, nudityfemalegraphic, nuditytopless, nuditybottoms, nuditysexualacts, nudityobscuredsexualacts, nuditysexualtouching, nuditykissing, nudityartistic, nudityeducational, nuditymedical, drugstobacco, drugsalcohol, drugsuse, gambling, weaponuse, intolerance, badexample, pgmaterial, violencerape, violencetohumans, violencetoanimals, violencetofantasy, violencekillinghumans, violencekillinganimals, violencekillingfantasy, violenceinjuryhumans, violenceinjuryanimals, violenceinjuryfantasy, violenceartisitic, violenceeducational, violencemedical, violencesports, violenceobjects

    What could then be done is have the client (ie, the TV) have preconfigured settings based on the above ratings. Similar to G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17, etc. However, the user would also be able to customize the settings to however they wish. That's the important difference. Ie, if they believe that "nuditysexualacts" and is fine for their 13 year old but not "violencerape", they could configure it that way.

    --
    "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
  34. V-chip by Tmack · · Score: 2, Informative

    The simplest solution with digital broadcasts woiuld be an age rating flag. let the user set the level they want to recieve and blank the channel when it exceeds thier set rating.

    ...

    I do like the idea of perhaps dynamic self censorship.
    pick what offends you and have a database of the schedules flagging what you want or don't want to see.

    Its called a V chip here in the US. It picks up the rating flags the broadcasters send out with shows and can trigger a child-safety lock if it exceeds a level you set in the TVs configuration. To unlock it, you just use a PIN you set there too. Almost all cable boxes around here have the feature as well, and it was required by the FCC for all TVs over 13" made after Jan 1, 2000 to include them.

    Tm

    --
    Support TBI Research: http://www.raisinhope.org
  35. The Wisdom of Bart Simpson by Zaphod2016 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been watching "The Simpsons" on DVD this chilly Saturday morning, and I think Bart Simpson said it best:

    "Lisa, if you don't watch the violence, you'll never get desensitized to it."

    As an American, my biggest beef with the way sex is handled on TV is the BLATANT hypocricy. A legal-aged (and IMO beautiful) woman like Janet Jackson has a nipple slip out, and we scream bloody murder. Then, we dress our best-looking 15 year olds like whores, and parade them around endlessly during prime time. Finally, we arrest and scorne any of those among us who dare to reach for the forbidden fruit.

    Don't get me wrong- sex with kids is bad. But sex isn't. In fact, sex is how we got all these 15 year old in the first place. I'm not about to suggest that TV or video game violence is "rsponsible" for anything- unlike you, and your kids, it lacks free will. However, simply looking at the variety of violent acts among children, it is clear that something very bad is going on here.

    If I had a daughter, I would prefer she stay at home, dressed in sweat pants and 40 pounds overweight. However, given the choice between buying her a box of condoms, and driving her to the emergency room, I'd rather bite the bullet and suffer a few minutes of embarrasment explaining how a "winky" works.

  36. Well, if you're going to regulate violence, then.. by viewtouch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about regulating the violence perpetrated by the US government, by secret organizations funded by the US government and by the companies that build bombs, weapons and ammunition, then sell these things to governments and organizations all across the world. How about regulating that? How about putting an END to that?

  37. Re:They did it before by neomunk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What could then be done is have the client (ie, the TV) have preconfigured settings based on the above ratings. Similar to G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17, etc. However, the user would also be able to customize the settings to however they wish. That's the important difference. Ie, if they believe that "nuditysexualacts" and is fine for their 13 year old but not "violencerape", they could configure it that way. That is an excellent idea. I'm very liberal in my politics, but I'm a parent too, and tend to run my own household in a more conservative manner. I think half the crap rated Y7 is way to full of 'attitude' (I think they think it's a good thing) and consequently get barred from my living room. Also note, the kids have no TV in the bedroom, I take my job of raising my own kids seriously.

    I like that 'badexample' tag, and would use it. I'd like to see it expanded actually, as there are many different types of bad example being presented for consumption. The running insults that are present on SO many of today's kids shows really piss me off. These kids are seeing role-models engage in completely sociopathic behavior and it's presented at the preferred behavior... You know, "cool".

    My kids watch exactly NO cartoon network, NO Disney, and not too much of anything besides PBS. Hell, not everything on PBS meets my standard, so it gets no play. I take my job raising my kids seriously, like I said before.

    That being said, I've always thought that television censorship on the national level is degrading. I, unlike my children, am a full formed and functional adult, perfectly capable of making my own decisions. If someone else feels the need for censorship, perhaps because they do not feel capable of making their own decisions, well, they should probably just have someone make a program schedule for them and lock out all the other options. And for those who don't feel the need to take enough of an active part in their kid's lives to regulate their television watching habits, tough. You've had the orgasm, now take some responsibility for what you've done.

    Sorry "Shawn is an Asshole" for turning my reply to you into a general rant, but hey, it happens.

    This post is tagged: languagemildexpletives, pgmaterial
    This post's production was tagged: languageprofanity, drugstobacco, intolerance, pgmaterial, nuditybottoms
  38. I support an alternate solution: Tag the children! by Behrooz · · Score: 2, Funny

    Rather than requiring content filtering at the broadcaster or on the cable box, I support filtering on a per-child level. Parents should be able to purchase individually-tailored shock collars for their children which automatically activate whenever the child is exposed to non-parental-approved content or situations. By harnessing the power of the shock-averse 'natural intelligence' already guiding children, parents can sleep soundly knowing that their children are making every possible effort to avoid corrupting and immoral influences.

    --
    "We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
  39. Huh? by tehdaemon · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Yea, sure, we paid for it. But how does that mean it belongs to us?

    Ever try to 'hang out' at the local military base?

    T

    --
    Laws are horrible moral guides, moral guides make even worse laws.
  40. Re:Is it so different? by mvdwege · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I mean, if you're going to teach the Bible, at least teach what was actually in it, but I can't help but wonder...

    The original sin was eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. So, actually learning -- particularly learning about ethics -- is what damned us all. Curiosity is a bad thing.

    You would do well to follow your own advice, and to take this additional advice: read up some basic theology. It was not curiosity that was the reason for the Fall. Knowledge of Good and Evil implies the capability to act on either of them. Adam and Eve were expelled from Paradise because they had gained the capability to do Evil, which is something that does not belong in Paradise, which is a realm of absolute Good.

    God forbade the fruits of the Tree of Knowledge because it would disturb the balance of Paradise by introducing the knowledge of Evil. The reason for the prohibition was promptly validated by the fact that Adam and Eve started by lying about their act, denying that they had taken from the Tree and trying to place blame on others.

    Apart from whether or not you believe this, only a deliberate misreading of the text and the exegesis done on it over the centuries could lead someone to state that mere curiosity led to the Fall. It didn't. Neither did mere disobience.

    As for the resolution of this, this is why Christians believe Jesus' death leads to forgiveness for Original Sin: Jesus shows the ultimate Good, sacrificing yourself for others. The core tenet of Christianity is that by following his teachings and if need be his sacrifice, we renounce Evil and commit to Good. I see no refutation of the validity of independent thought in this. In fact, the demand that we consciously choose to do Good over Evil is in fact a validation of the worth of independent thought. One does not get saved by rote regurgitation of dogma; Jesus' attacks on the Farisees and the Judeans make this abundantly clear.

    Mart
    --
    "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  41. Re:Conservatives love 24 by Scudsucker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Have you actually watched 24 lately? This season, there's been quite a bit of veiled (and not-so-veiled) criticism about the administration taking away more and more rights of the people in the name of fighting terrorism. In fact, it seems like almost every episode they have some sort of commentary on this.

    Call me when Jack tortures and/or kills someone who turns out to be innocent. Until then I wont be very impressed.

  42. Aggression Literature by drcoppersmith · · Score: 2, Informative

    I study the neuroscience of aggression (if you're interested in that sort of thing: see my blog), and there are no studies to date showing a causative link between watching violence as a child and being violent as an adult. There seems to be strong correlative evidence to that end, but those studies are all so confounded and convoluted, they're hard (or impossible) to interpret and fit in with what we know about the underlying neurobiology.
     
    I would be interested to see who did the 'unpublished study' since it has not yet reached the publication stage. If this is a real causative finding, it would fly in the face of a fair number of prominent and well-skilled researchers. Needless to say, I am very skeptical of this study (and the subsequent FCC action).