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Scientists Make Quantum Encryption Breakthrough

Madas writes "Scientists working in Cambridge have managed to make quantum encryption completely secure (registration required) by putting decoy pulses in the key transmission stream. According to the story this paves the way for safe, encrypted high-speed data links. Could this allow completely private transmission of data away from snooping eyes and ears? Or will it mean film studios can stop movies from being copied when traveling on the internet?"

156 comments

  1. Decoy Pulses are Nothing New... by Quaoar · · Score: 4, Funny

    My girlfriend makes them all the time.

    --
    I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
    1. Re:Decoy Pulses are Nothing New... by zokrath · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Who is rating this 'Informative'?

      It's kind of creepy...

    2. Re:Decoy Pulses are Nothing New... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Who is rating this 'Informative'?

      His girlfriend's other boyfriends?
    3. Re:Decoy Pulses are Nothing New... by Rudisaurus · · Score: 0, Troll

      ... at least until the batteries run out, right?

      --
      licet differant, aequabitur
  2. Tag suggestion... by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1, Insightful

    proofyourfuckingheadlines

    --
    "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    1. Re:Tag suggestion... by LordSnooty · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, cos that's a great use of the tag system. Can't wait for the moment a few months hence where I need to find all articles where the headline wasn't proof-read. Just like I want to look up all the stories where someone made a mistake (search 'doh'), find all the Steve Balmer articles (search 'chairthrowing') or all the stories about problems for trad Slashdot villains (search: 'haha')

      The tag system is broken, but there's nothing wrong with the implementation. People can't tag correctly. Look below, all real tags.

    2. Re:Tag suggestion... by binary+paladin · · Score: 1, Funny

      I gotta admit, they might be broken, but they amuse the hell out of me.

    3. Re:Tag suggestion... by tijmentiming · · Score: 1

      I think they inform me too. It gives a quick impression what people think about the article. I'm never reading articles tagged FUD. the articles tagged 'haha' are all about microsoft and make me smile :-). If it's slownewsday, I probably like it, etc.

    4. Re:Tag suggestion... by arevos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It seems to me that the search system can already find articles via keywords. Tags are most useful when they add meta-information that cannot be inferred by a keyword search. Whilst it's unlikely "proofyourfuckingheadlines" is going to be useful for many people, tags like "haha" and "doh" might be conceivably useful, as they give information beyond a search for words in the article summary could provide.

    5. Re:Tag suggestion... by Fyz · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The way tags are used around here, they're just one-word comments you can make if you're a subscriber.

    6. Re:Tag suggestion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to know who tags every story "tagging beta" - I mean, C'mon!

    7. Re:Tag suggestion... by StarvingSE · · Score: 1

      I am able to tag articles, and I don't subscribe... perhaps they take a random subset of users and allow them to tag as well?

      --
      I got nothin'
    8. Re:Tag suggestion... by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      Ditto.

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    9. Re:Tag suggestion... by basscomm · · Score: 1
      From the FAQ on this very site:

      This is all very beta. Currently, tagging is open to our users whose accounts are more than about six months old. If your account is more recent, you can still get tag access by becoming a Slashdot subscriber.
      --
      http://crummysocks.com
    10. Re:Tag suggestion... by jfengel · · Score: 1

      Honestly, it's one of the big questions on the Web lately. Can a bunch of people work together and make something useful, even knowing that some of them are going to be assholes deliberately spitting in the pot?

      Slashdot's moderation was an early pioneer. Wikipedia kicked it to a whole new level. Given the number of trolls Slashdot gets I was sure that Wiki would fail, but the number of people willing to revert graffiti is apparently enough that nearly all of the pages are useful nearly all of the time.

      Tags are yet another experiment, and "Some people are assholes" is, sadly, a feature and not a bug. Begging the assholes not to be assholes never works, and you've got to design your system around it.

      Both Wiki and Slashdot moderation share one feature: negative feedback. If something is trollish, people have to be able to say, "No, that's bad." As far as I can tell there's only positive feedback in tags, and that will limit its usefulness.

      A case like this, though... jokes will be made, and this is one. Some jokes will take people's imagination, like "In Soviet Russia..." jokes that keep getting modded up. That, too, must be taken as a feature, one you'll have to live with.

    11. Re:Tag suggestion... by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      In all seriousness: Slashdot's tags are stupid and pointless. "yes", "no", "doh", "maybe". How very useful!

      If they're going to be broken (and they are), we may as well have some fun with it. If they were at all of any value, I wouldn't have suggested this.

      So please remove the stick from your ass.

      Thanks! :D

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    12. Re:Tag suggestion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed that "haha" and "doh" might be useful tags.

      "yes" and "no" are the most useless, though; they seem to pop up whenever there is a question in the summary.

    13. Re:Tag suggestion... by arevos · · Score: 1

      "yes" and "no" are the most useless, though; they seem to pop up whenever there is a question in the summary. What if you wanted to search for an article that asks a question in the summary? :)
  3. it is an intrusion detection breakthorough by harkabeeparolyn · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... not encryption. Quantum encryption or even computing is as pie in the sky as ever.

    1. Re:it is an intrusion detection breakthorough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quantum encryption and computing have nothing to do with each other.

    2. Re:it is an intrusion detection breakthorough by geeber · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If by "Quantum encryption" you mean "Quantum key distribution" then you are incorrect. It is available commercially now.

    3. Re:it is an intrusion detection breakthorough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pie in the sky don't that mean it's got sumthin to do with carl sagan and jodie foster?
  4. Stop piracy? by Jordan+Catalano · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or will it mean film studios can stop movies from being copied when traveling on the internet?

    No. Not at all.

    Quantum "encryption" foils interception of a data stream. That has nothing to do with copying a file and resending it once it reaches its destination.

    1. Re:Stop piracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it only prevents one type of interception: eavesdropping. It does not prevent a man-in-the-middle attack.

    2. Re:Stop piracy? by eklitzke · · Score: 2, Informative

      With quantum encryption you cannot conduct a meaningful MITM attack. This is called the observer effect, and is a very well known and studied phenomenon of quantum mechanics.

      --
      #include ".signature"
    3. Re:Stop piracy? by Xenographic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You'd think that people here would know better than to ask such silly things by now, wouldn't you? Does it really take that much thinking to realize that you can't give someone access to data and not give them access at the same time?

      Even if you had some special quantum device to allow people to watch something once, only to have its quantum state collapse (or whatever), you could still record the output. With a camcorder, if it came to that.

      "Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet." - Bruce Schneier, cryptography expert

    4. Re:Stop piracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can study the observer effect all you want, quantum cryptography is still vulnerable to a type of MITM.

    5. Re:Stop piracy? by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 1

      Does it really take that much thinking to realize that you can't give someone access to data and not give them access at the same time?

      Yeah, you would think that, wouldn't you. But apparently, the best minds of the entertainment industry still can't grasp that one.

    6. Re:Stop piracy? by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 1

      Even if you had some special quantum device to allow people to watch something once, only to have its quantum state collapse (or whatever), you could still record the output. With a camcorder, if it came to that.


      That's why you use one-time-pad. Send the key first, then, after you know it has been recieived, send the data. If someone snoops, then you know about it, and you don't use the key.
    7. Re:Stop piracy? by gkhan1 · · Score: 1

      So you could either a) create super-high tech stupidly expensive hardware and use fiber optic cables (or whatever you use to transfer quantum stuff) or b) simply sign your transmissions. I wonder which one is easier?

    8. Re:Stop piracy? by Bwian_of_Nazareth · · Score: 1

      Can you please elaborate?

    9. Re:Stop piracy? by Arancaytar · · Score: 3, Informative

      From what I've read, quantum encryption only really becomes necessary if common prime-number algorithms are rendered ineffective by unforeseen advances in computing power (say, quantum computing or other stuff now considered science fiction). It's basically a one-time-pad - it is proven to be completely secure if used correctly, but in most cases, other theoretically breakable technologies are enough.

      And the only thing you need to transfer the signal is apparently an uninterrupted fibre-optic line.

      But this is basically Google and Wikipedia speaking, so I'm waiting for a real expert to correct me on this.

    10. Re:Stop piracy? by gkhan1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      No this is basically true (there is a quantum computing algorithm called Shor's algorithm which could crack prime numbers in O((log N)^3) time, a vast improvement over current algorithms) that would make prime-number algorithms obsolete. In that case, quantum cryptography could be something worth looking into (although by that time something else might have come along, quantum computing is at least 100 years from being practically able to do what is needed). I was just making fun of the idea that you would use quantum cryptography to achieve authentication. There are so many easier ways :)

    11. Re:Stop piracy? by welsh+git · · Score: 1

      I've always said the same thing with audio. Even if the best encryption in the world comes about, simply feed the analogue line-out into the analogue line-in.

      This 'one time' analogue loop (without tapes and so on in the mix) will still sound FAR better than most of the retarded low-bitrate lossy-compresssion algorithms we are expected to accept.

      --
      Sig out of date
    12. Re:Stop piracy? by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Stopping eavesdropping, but having no effect on what the intended recipient is able to do. And until the intended recipient of the movie has access to their own machine sufficiently castrated (as the media industry is already attempting), this won't stop any piracy.

      Until I see statistics, I'm convinced that the majority of illegal distribution is done by the people who either legitimately download or have already received an illegal distribution - not by people who eavesdrop on the video stream of someone else.

    13. Re:Stop piracy? by Prune · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are a number of things wrong with your post. First of all, no one has in blind testing been able to distinguish 256 kb/s mp3 from the original CD version, even with very high end equipment. For most people 192 is also indistinguishable. So the answer is simple, just don't use lower than 192 bitrate. Second, playback and re-recording, besides the distortion of the analog stages, results in increased distortion from jitter effects in the A/D and D/A conversions (jitter in the digital stream going into the converter results in amplitude errors in the analog signal, and humans can hear less than 5 picoseconds of signal-correlated jitter).

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    14. Re:Stop piracy? by albyrne5 · · Score: 1

      First of all, no one has in blind testing been able to distinguish 256 kb/s mp3 from the original CD version, even with very high end equipment. For most people 192 is also indistinguishable.

      Can you cite a source for this please?
    15. Re:Stop piracy? by Prune · · Score: 1

      Google it. It was a test done some years ago with Sennheiser's $12,000 Orpheus headphones, and only a few in the subject group managed to make out the 192 from the CD; no one managed the 256. I would recommend you do something even better: download the free abchr utility and it will let you easily do your own blind test, so you know for your equipment and ears what the lowest bitrate is necessary for transparency.

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    16. Re:Stop piracy? by Prune · · Score: 1

      Forgot to add that modern mp3 encoders are even better, so even more reason 192 would be sufficient. On the other hand, there are better DACs and headphones (Stax Omega 2, cheaper too at $2000), so who knows that might make smaller differences more clear, though I doubt it.

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
    17. Re:Stop piracy? by mstahl · · Score: 1

      (there is a quantum computing algorithm called Shor's algorithm which could crack prime numbers in O((log N)^3) time, a vast improvement over current algorithms) that would make prime-number algorithms obsolete

      Not entirely true. Shor's algorithm provides a quadratic speedup, which is definitely a vast improvement, but that only really means you'd need to double the keyspace to make it just as hard with Shor's algorithm. Add one extra bit to your 128-bit key and you're there. We'll be able to keep up that little arms race until keys become large enough to seriously tax our conventional computers we use to encrypt our data.

    18. Re:Stop piracy? by hyfe · · Score: 1

      "Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet." - Bruce Schneier, cryptography expert
      I'm not too sure. I often find fairly unidentifiable bits in my food. I'm quite certain it's impossible to reliably copy these.
      --
      "" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
    19. Re:Stop piracy? by filou007 · · Score: 1

      But you will get a crappy digital copy of your movie, its quantum state will be lost forever. Movies of the future are going to be so quantum. Anybody with a crappy digital HDTV will be such a looser!

    20. Re:Stop piracy? by albyrne5 · · Score: 1

      Interesting! When I get my new stereo, I'll be sure to do the pepsi challenge myself.

    21. Re:Stop piracy? by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      Stream has to go from point A to point B, via router C. You become router C by any means you need (hacking the router, spoofing certain data, etc), then as you're routing the data, you simply store it (you have to read it to retransmit). The only thing Quantum "Encryption" prevents is someone splicing into a pre-existing line and putting some device to eavesdrop. Who often do you really think that happens compared to everything else?

    22. Re:Stop piracy? by jon_anderson_ca · · Score: 1

      If the quantum part of the system is only used to generate keys, A and B will end up with different keys (since the process doesn't just transmit keys, it's an integral part of generating them; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB84).

      When A and B try to send data to each other over a (regular, higher-speed, non-quantum) link, they'll notice this pretty quickly.

    23. Re:Stop piracy? by welsh+git · · Score: 1

      There are a number of things wrong with YOUR post - all based on the false assumption that I was attacking all forms of lossy-compression, which I wasn't.

      I'm talking about the MANY sources that are 128Kbs mp3, or even 96Kbps mp3 (stereo music radio too), and also often encoded using an encoder that isn't very good.

      Are you really trying to say that download music services (for this is what we're talking about due to the conext of piracy and encryption) provide good quality 192kb/s or 256kb/s downloads ?

      You then banging on on your crusade about 256kb/s and 192kb/s is therefore irrelevant, and a strawman argument.

      And again, with tracks of the typical quality we're talking about, any added jitter will be minimal to negligable. Incidently, you'll find the music SOURCE was analogue originally, so there will already have been one A->D conversion done.

      --
      Sig out of date
  5. Dude! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    You don't really have a girlfriend. But top marks for thinking anybody would ever believe you!

    1. Re:Dude! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Maybe we can find out for sure by checking the flow of photons from his mouth to slashdot. If there is a girlfriend involved, you'll notice the pulse-splitting attack (eavesdropping) by a reduced amount of photons arriving at slashdot.

    2. Re:Dude! by Brunellus · · Score: 1

      It's kinda like Schrodinger's cat: she's dead *and* not dead...until we open the box.

  6. Full Text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Researchers have managed to close a loophole in quantum cryptography that could allow a hacker to determine a secret key transmitted using the technology.

    Working at Toshiba Research Europe in Cambridge, scientists found that laser diodes used to transmit keys used to encrypt data, known as Quantum Key Distribution (QKD), sometimes transmitted more than one photon at a time. Quantum encryption works by transmitting key data as a stream of single photons.

    Should an eavesdropper try to intercept the transmission, monitoring a single photon would change the state of that photon, and this would make both ends of the transmission aware that the data had been eavesdropped. However, the laser diodes can sometimes transmit more than one photon and so a hacker could monitor the second photon, leaving the first photon unchanged and this would not alert anyone that the key transmission had been compromised.

    But scientists have now added decoy photons to the key data. When an eavesdropper now tries to monitor extra photons, they will also monitor the decoy photons. Scientists said these decoy photons or "decoy pulses" are weaker on average and so very rarely contain two or more photons.

    If an eavesdropper attempts a pulse-splitting attack, they will transmit a lower fraction of these decoy pulses than signal pulses. By monitoring the transmission of the decoy and signal pulses separately this type of intervention can be detected, according to scientists.

    By introducing decoy pulses, the researcher found that stronger laser pulses could be used securely, increasing the rate at which keys may be sent. By using this method keys could be transmitted securely over a 25km fibre to an average bit rate of 5.5kbits/sec, a hundred-fold increase on previous efforts.

    "Using these new methods for QKD we can distribute many more secret keys per second, while at the same time guaranteeing the unconditional security of each," said Dr Andrew Shields, Quantum Information group leader at Toshiba Research Europe. "This enables QKD to be used for a number of important applications such as encryption of high bandwidth data links."

    The researchers also discovered a second method to push bit-rates even higher for QKD. The scientists have created the first semiconductor diode that can be controlled with electrical signal input to emit only single photons at a wavelength compatible with optical fibres. This 'single photon source' method eliminates the problem of multi-photon pulses altogether, claimed the research.

    The single photon diode has a structure similar to an ordinary semiconductor light emitting diode (LED), but measures just 45 nm in diameter and 10 nm in height. The dot can hold only a few electrons and so can only ever emit one photon at a time at the selected wavelength. The source operates with only electrical signals, which is essential for practical applications such as QKD. Initial trials with the new device, reported recently in the scientific journal Applied Physics Letters, showed the multi-photon rate from the device to be fives times lower than that of a laser diode of the same intensity.

  7. Editor, editor... by tgv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is the last sentence doing there: "Or will it mean film studios can stop ..."? It's clear from the preceding text that that (i.e., copy while travelling, not copy afterwards) is one of the potential uses. So it's completely redundant. At the same time, the implicature of this particular phrase suggests Something Bad: Big Companies are trying to stop You from your Right To Download, or something akin, implying that these "researchers" have hidden agendas and are enemies of open source, Linux, Ruby, Apache and probably of world peace. That's of course complete and utter nonsense, so the last sentence should have been cut out by the editor. Why didn't that happen? And what's the link to www.absolutegadget.com doing there? Who gains by putting this link on the /. front page?

    1. Re:Editor, editor... by pherthyl · · Score: 2

      Who gains by putting this link on the /. front page?

      Several people actually. If you submit an article that gets accepted, you get a link to your page. So you gain by having that link there because it drives some traffic to your site. Slashdot gains because there is now an incentive for people to submit good stories that will get accepted, and I gain amusement by watching people like you freak about nothing.

  8. Mod parent up - it's easy to steal from servers... by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you're only protecting the transport from spying eyes (with quantum encryption or whatever), that's only a part of what you need to protect your data.

    This is the same reason why many, if not most, "SSL-protected" or "SSH-protected" servers are really sitting ducks: interesting data is still sitting in the clear on the endpoint servers' hard drives. (And don't get me started about "AUTH TLS" email forwarding...)

  9. What the hell? by fabs64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've seen summaries with better understanding of technical topics in my local, small town, tabloid newspaper.
    Really what nerd approves a summary like that?

    1. Re:What the hell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having no hands-on knowledge of this budding technology myself, I am excited at the (endless) possibilities for the future. I may not ever understand the science of what is happening, but I'm going to make damn sure my kids are on the case from day one out of the chute.

      Aside from the good news, BOO SLASHDOT for letting samzenpus have front page posting privileges. As a reparation for having to read the terrible spin, I want this person's job.

      I don't need no stinking spellchekcyer like (s)he does.

      salty (DOT) pete (AT) slackcrew (DOT) com
      phishing the phishers since 1996.

  10. ahem by GlitchyBits · · Score: 3, Informative

    Quantum encryption is quite a misleading expression since the quantum mechanics is only used to securely transmit a cryptographic key ... not encrypting the message.

    1. Re:ahem by dido · · Score: 4, Informative

      Public key encryption is, in practice, used pretty much the same way as well. Public key algorithms are generally used as part of a secure key exchange protocol rather than encrypting a message as directly.

      --
      Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
    2. Re:ahem by GlitchyBits · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem with popular public key algorithms is that they are based on the assumption that the opponent doesn't have enough computationnal power in order to break it in a reasonnable amount of time, or he doesn't know a polynomial determinist algorithm to do so.

      The big advantage of using quantum key distribution is that it will (ideally) ensure that the cryptographic key you get has not been sniffed, and that you can securely exchange a key which is long enough in order to use a one time pad (which is an unconditionnaly secure way of encrypting a message).

    3. Re:ahem by knowlton · · Score: 0

      "Unconditionally secure" assumes you have a perfectly random generator for your one-time pad. If I can find a way to predict the next number your RNG gave you, I may be able to defeat your one-time pad.

    4. Re:ahem by swillden · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Unconditionally secure" assumes you have a perfectly random generator for your one-time pad. If I can find a way to predict the next number your RNG gave you, I may be able to defeat your one-time pad.

      Good random numbers are easy to obtain. There are any number of physical phenomena whose randomness is quantum in origin and therefore unpredictable. Just use one of them in a heavily-shielded room to ensure that none of your data leaks and you're golden.

      The hard part of using OTPs isn't generating the pads, it's transmitting and storing them securely. QC addresses secure transmission (though you still have to take care to avoid MITM attacks).

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:ahem by knowlton · · Score: 0

      "Unconditionally secure" assumes you have a perfectly random generator for your one-time pad. If I can find a way to predict the next number your RNG gave you, I may be able to defeat your one-time pad. Good random numbers are easy to obtain. There are any number of physical phenomena whose randomness is quantum in origin and therefore unpredictable. Just use one of them in a heavily-shielded room to ensure that none of your data leaks and you're golden.

      The hard part of using OTPs isn't generating the pads, it's transmitting and storing them securely. QC addresses secure transmission (though you still have to take care to avoid MITM attacks). Ok, sure, but the point was more to do with the overly-strong claim: GP claims OTPs are unconditionally secure but that claim is not justified. OTPs are secure given good entropy sources and good protection for the keys themselves.

      Would I have done better to moderate the overly-strong claim by identifying the key management difficulties?

      <whine>
      And why is it that your post is on /. for like, all of 15 sec. and has a score of 2?
      (What is it that you are doing that I'm somehow failing?)
      Is bad karma self-perpetuating?
      </whine>
    6. Re:ahem by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Just use one of them in a heavily-shielded room to ensure that none of your data leaks and you're golden.


      In your own words, a good random number generator is therefore *NOT* easy to obtain.
    7. Re:ahem by ysachlandil · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not to mention the problems with "Man in the Middle" attacks. Since quantum encryption doesn't validate the endpoints, you could just cut the fiber and attach two new transceivers and nobody will know. And no, the technique in the article doesn't protect against this. There are only a few ways to get around this problem:

      -Monitor the fiber for cuts by keeping it lit at all times. Backhoe accidents will still happen, and then you need to guard the cut and use trusted technicians.
      -Have huge fiber ducts and patrol them with guards.
      -Use certificates to validate the endpoints. But then you need to trust public key crypto and then quantum doesn't add anything.

      So quantum crypto is still useless.

      --Blerik

    8. Re:ahem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, they would know. That's the whole point of quantum key exchange. Each photon sent has both linear and circular polarisation. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle states that measuring one of these states destroys all information about the other. This is the basis for QKE.

      Alice sends a stream of photons to Bob with random linear and circular polarisation. Call the string of bits represented by the linear polarisation 'a' - up is 1 and down is 0. The string represented by the circular polarisation we'll call 'b' - clockwise is 1 and anticlockwise is 0.

      Once Bob has received all the photons he tells Alice and she publicly announces all the bits of b. Bob discards the bits for 'a' which were transmitted in a photon for which his value for 'b' differs from what Alice announced. For example if Alice says b(i) = 1 but Bob has received b(i) = 0 he discards a(i). Bob also notifies Alice of which bits he has discarded.

      The line will have noise so a number of b(i) are expected not to match. However if a large number do not match it can be assumed that an attacker is listening in. If an attacker had been listening they would have only been able to measure a(i) or b(i) but not both. They would have to retransmit the photon and guess the value of whichever of a(i) or b(i) they did not measure. Due to the randomness of a and b they would have only a 0.5 probability of being sucessful for each photon. This becomes exponentially small as the number of photons is increased. When they are unsuccessful at reconstructing the photon Bob notices and discards that bit.

      If Alice and Bob agree on enough bits of b then it can be safely assumed there is no attacker and the remaining bits of 'a' are a key known only to them. This is a rather simplified description of what actually happens, but it should be enough to demonstrate that naive man-in-the-middle attackers like cutting the wire won't work.

    9. Re:ahem by Wildclaw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you missed the parents point. What you just described is a method that prevents eavesdropping.

      What the parent suggests is the man-in-the-middle Dave intercepts both all and any communication between Alice and Bob. Alice sends a stream of photons over the quantum line, and Dave intercepts. Afterwards Alice does the public announce to check that bits havn't been intercepted, but Dave intercepts this message also, and this time acts as Bob to verify the photons recieved. Alica and Dave agrees that there isn't an eavesdropper on their line and starts communicating.

      So know Alice is communicating with Dave instead of Bob. Dave repeats the same with Bob, but now as the sender. Bob believes that Dave is Alice and they get a link established. Now Dave has one line open to Alice and one line open to Bob and can retransmit what he wants. Nothing of this violates Quantum Theory, because instead of eavesdropping, Dave has created two communication channels.

      The only problem Dave has to implement this is that he has to be able to intercept both the quantum channel and the public channel.

    10. Re:ahem by swillden · · Score: 1

      Just use one of them in a heavily-shielded room to ensure that none of your data leaks and you're golden.


      In your own words, a good random number generator is therefore *NOT* easy to obtain.

      Why not? Secure rooms aren't that difficult to build. Organizations who have reason to care about high security have lots of them.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    11. Re:ahem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does this crap get moderated up? Its completely inaccurate. Why do non-experts comment about things they should know they are ignorant about?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cryptography# Attacks

    12. Re:ahem by fenderized · · Score: 2, Informative
      Your link states:

      Quantum cryptography is still vulnerable to a type of MITM where the interceptor (Eve) establishes herself as "Alice" to Bob, and as "Bob" to Alice. Then, Eve simply has to perform QC negotiations on both sides simultaneously, obtaining two different keys. Alice-side key is used to decrypt the incoming message, which is reencrypted using the Bob-side key. This attack fails if both sides can verify each other's identity.
      which is pretty much what was stated.
    13. Re:ahem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem for Dave is that if Alice and Bob can verify each other's identities then they will immediately know they are not talking to the person they thought and the attack fails. It's a reasonable assumption that they will be able to make this verification given that many existing protocols are able to (using public key cryptography).

  11. What one man makes by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 1

    Another can break. So it might be the best... for now.

    --
    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  12. Re:Mod parent up - it's easy to steal from servers by bucketoftruth · · Score: 1

    (And don't get me started about "AUTH TLS" email forwarding...)

    Ok, what's the weak link here? Is it as bad as plain text or are you just griping about worst case scenarios where space aliens can decrypt our email with their hyper-advanced technology?

  13. Point to point by nickovs · · Score: 4, Informative

    The biggest drawback of this technology is not that it is in fact a key distribution method rather than an encryption scheme. It is that, as with pretty much all QKD systems, this only works if you have a continuous fibre-optic cable from one end to the other. That might be fine for linking two embassies or two military facilities but it makes it a bit useless for the Internet.

    --
    If intelligent life is too complex to evolve on its own, who designed God?
    1. Re:Point to point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not only that but the quantum channel has no way of verifying who the remote end really is. IE it can detect easedropping but not wholesale replacement of the intended target of communication.

      I dare anyone to cite a single practical benefit over existing zero knowledge key agreement systems.

    2. Re:Point to point by swillden · · Score: 1

      I dare anyone to cite a single practical benefit over existing zero knowledge key agreement systems.

      It makes your execs feel warm 'n fuzzy.

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      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:Point to point by maop · · Score: 1

      Not only is the summary bullocks but the technology is bullocks. What is a slashdotter to do?

    4. Re:Point to point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if eavesdropping was permitted, then the bitstreams can be analyzed, and information can be retrieved at a later time.. ie. brute forcing the keys. if you incorporate the "no eavesdropping" with authentication of the endpoints, then it could be considered more secure.

  14. finaly! by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 3, Funny

    Now I can make posts on slashdot without anyone being able to read them. Privacy at last!

    1. Re:finaly! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I can make posts on slashdot without anyone being able to read them. Privacy at last!

      You can already do that. Like this post. Nobody sees it. Score: 0 < h/2pi. And posted by an AC. Sure, it's there, but as Heisenberg argued, what's the point in talking about it if you can't see it?

  15. Copied during travel? by QJimbo · · Score: 1

    Or will it mean film studios can stop movies from being copied when traveling on the internet?
    They don't get copied during transmission, they get copied/drm-cracked after the other person has recieved it ;)

  16. lmaf @ proofyourfuckingheadlines by agent · · Score: 0, Funny

    I am a Cracker!

  17. Copying movies by Bob54321 · · Score: 1

    Or will it mean film studios can stop movies from being copied when traveling on the internet?

    Why is that sentence there? OK, there is a new type of encryption - but how exactly does that relate to capturing movies while the roam free on the internet?

    Is there something I'm missing - perhaps a tubes joke...
    --
    :(){ :|:& };:
  18. A nerd employed to boost ad revenue. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or perhaps they aren't a nerd at all. I guess any ignorant hack could hastily slap together some crappy "story" or other just to make a few quick bucks. Welcome to Slashdot!

  19. they are watching by zoftie · · Score: 1

    ...' Or will it mean film studios can stop movies from being copied when traveling on the internet?" '....

    Don't give them any ideas.

  20. Be nice... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    submitter is new to teh intarwebs.

  21. I can see the headlines now... by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Funny

    'DVD' Jon breaks quantum encryption, APS sues claiming its against the laws of physics.

    1. Re:I can see the headlines now... by db32 · · Score: 1

      So...by this train does that mean the CERN supercollider is considered cracking? I am SOOO going to sue them for cracking a particle that represented a copy of 1 bit of my intellectual property! DMCA here I come!

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  22. Quantum, not encryption. by robbak · · Score: 1

    'Quantum Encryption is about transmitting keys for use in later encryption. Possibly even to the extent of a 'one time pad' for smaller messages. And it is not about hiding or scrambling the key either: it is sent in the clear, or maybe encrypted with something as a token measure. And can be intercepted, too.

    It is about _knowing_ that the key was intercepted. If someone eavesdrops it, the receiving end knows it, and can tell the sender "Nope, that one was snaffled, beam me another."

    --
    Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
  23. The drawbacks others haven't mentioned by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 5, Informative

    Elsewhere in the comments people have correctly pointed out that it isn't encryption at all and that it is fundamentally incompatible with any router, switch, bridge or even repeater.

    There's also the limit of 5.5 kbps, though that might be improved.

    The issue that should have killed this idea ten years ago when Shamir pointed it out is that an attacker who has spliced the fiber can read the polarizer without ever looking at a single one of the transmitted photons.

    Send the $#$@! key material by bonded courier in a tamper-evident package if it's that important. If for some reason that's not enough then split (e.g. Blakely-Shamir) the key material into shares, send each separately, and recombine when needed.

    1. Re:The drawbacks others haven't mentioned by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      I was wondering about that...compromise the endpoint and the whole encryption part falls off.

      As an OT aside, Beryllium: I love that journal entry about Republicans and refer people to it near-daily. Great work. :)

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    2. Re:The drawbacks others haven't mentioned by swillden · · Score: 1

      The issue that should have killed this idea ten years ago when Shamir pointed it out is that an attacker who has spliced the fiber can read the polarizer without ever looking at a single one of the transmitted photons.

      Shamir's attack doesn't affect entanglement QKD. The article appears to be referring to polarization-based QKD, however.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:The drawbacks others haven't mentioned by jd · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Don't know if they still do, but in the 50's, the British used synchronized tapes with one-time pads. As best as I understand it, both sides of the link started their tapes at the same time and from the same offset (synchronized over secure phone) but had no control over when the machines at each end would actually sync up. (The exact sync mechanism is something I'm also a little unclear over - nothing from the tape was ever transmitted.) The practical upshot was that anyone who had a copy of the tape AND a copy of the transmission would still face a daunting computational challenge to break the encryption.

      If you combine this with the split key concept, so that the difficulty of obtaining a full pad is considerably greater, and perhaps even run each fragment through a public key encryption algorithm to make getting that fragment a near-impossible task, you get damn close to the theoretical level of security offered by an OTP.

      A correctly-implemented OTP, in which the pad cannot be derived algorithmically from known quantities, where the pad is not cyclic, and where the pad is used exactly once, cannot be broken at all without physically obtaining the specific part of the pad that is actually used and some computationally-viable method of eliminating any excess. If the pad is rendered unreadable, or the specific information required to make the pad usable simply doesn't exist except at the moment of transmission and then only on the machines involved, then OTP is essentially unbreakable.

      The premise of encryption is that nothing can ever be made 100% tamper-proof or uninterceptable, merely very tamper-resistant and very hard to intercept, and so you're far better off making what is obtained unusable. Having something that is supposedly not interceptable is so much snake oil. For a long time, nobody was sure you could undetectably tap optic fiber. What are the vulnerabilities of the endpoints? Is the connection between the "secure" endpoint and the computers at either end exploitable? Are any of the computers involved open to being monitored by TEMPEST or other remote techniques? If the machines are on partially or fully exposed networks, are the machines susceptible to having the transmission intercepted either prior to being secured or after being restored? (Partially exposed can include computers that share USB memory sticks or floppies with unsecure machines. All you need is a carrier for a virus.)

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    4. Re:The drawbacks others haven't mentioned by kisielk · · Score: 1

      I don't know the fine details of this technology, but doesn't its quantum nature also make it highly susceptible to denial of service by a man in the middle attack? All they would have to do is intercept part of the key exchange and keep the parties from every successfully exchanging keys without even having to take down the whole link. Maybe not as bad as being able to intercept the transmission but a potential problem I think...

  24. So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I do that all the time, and I don't need stinking encryption.

  25. Slashdot comment #18105678, Concerto No. 2, Op.83 by Joyce+Hatto · · Score: 1, Funny

    Ræsæarchærs havæ managæd to closæ a loopholæ in quantum cryptography that could allow a hackær to dætærminæ a sæcræt kæy transmittæd using thæ tæchnology. Working at Toshiba Ræsæarch Æuropæ in Cambridgæ, sciæntists found that lasær diodæs usæd to transmit kæys usæd to æncrypt data, known as Quantum Kæy Distribution (QKD), somætimæs transmittæd moræ than onæ photon at a timæ. Quantum æncryption works by transmitting kæy data as a stræam of singlæ photons. Should an æavæsdroppær try to intærcæpt thæ transmission, monitoring a singlæ photon would changæ thæ statæ of that photon, and this would makæ both ænds of thæ transmission awaræ that thæ data had bææn æavæsdroppæd. Howævær, thæ lasær diodæs can somætimæs transmit moræ than onæ photon and so a hackær could monitor thæ sæcond photon, læaving thæ first photon unchangæd and this would not alært anyonæ that thæ kæy transmission had bææn compromisæd. But sciæntists havæ now addæd dæcoy photons to thæ kæy data. Whæn an æavæsdroppær now triæs to monitor æxtra photons, thæy will also monitor thæ dæcoy photons. Sciæntists said thæsæ dæcoy photons or "dæcoy pulsæs" aræ wæakær on aværagæ and so væry raræly contain two or moræ photons. If an æavæsdroppær attæmpts a pulsæ-splitting attack, thæy will transmit a lowær fraction of thæsæ dæcoy pulsæs than signal pulsæs. By monitoring thæ transmission of thæ dæcoy and signal pulsæs sæparatæly this typæ of intærvæntion can bæ dætæctæd, according to sciæntists. By introducing dæcoy pulsæs, thæ ræsæarchær found that strongær lasær pulsæs could bæ usæd sæcuræly, incræasing thæ ratæ at which kæys may bæ sænt. By using this mæthod kæys could bæ transmittæd sæcuræly ovær a 25km fibræ to an aværagæ bit ratæ of 5.5kbits/sæc, a hundræd-fold incræasæ on prævious æfforts. "Using thæsæ næw mæthods for QKD wæ can distributæ many moræ sæcræt kæys pær sæcond, whilæ at thæ samæ timæ guarantææing thæ unconditional sæcurity of æach," said Dr Andræw Shiælds, Quantum Information group læadær at Toshiba Ræsæarch Æuropæ. "This ænablæs QKD to bæ usæd for a numbær of important applications such as æncryption of high bandwidth data links." Thæ ræsæarchærs also discoværæd a sæcond mæthod to push bit-ratæs ævæn highær for QKD. Thæ sciæntists havæ cræatæd thæ first sæmiconductor diodæ that can bæ controllæd with ælæctrical signal input to æmit only singlæ photons at a wavælængth compatiblæ with optical fibræs. This 'singlæ photon sourcæ' mæthod æliminatæs thæ problæm of multi-photon pulsæs altogæthær, claimæd thæ ræsæarch. Thæ singlæ photon diodæ has a structuræ similar to an ordinary sæmiconductor light æmitting diodæ (LÆD), but mæasuræs just 45 nm in diamætær and 10 nm in hæight. Thæ dot can hold only a fæw ælæctrons and so can only

    --
    I just love to play the piano. I am so glad William encouraged me through it all. -- Joyce, final words.
  26. Nope! by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Could this allow completely private transmission of data away from snooping eyes and ears?
    Definitely no. No democratic government would allow it. Democracy badly needs eavesdropping.
    --
    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
  27. What about.... by edwardpickman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The process obviously won't stop copying material but my question is could the same or a similar technology be used to create a dedicated display screen? Let's say with quantum entangled particles as an example you directly drove a screen from a linked source. For every screen manufactured a dedicated chip was loaded into the system linked to your display device. No lines would be needs to transmit the data but like a traditional TV reciever there would be no signal to tap it simply drives the screen. You order your content on demand and there's nothing to record so no piracy but if it was a one time purchase situation you wouldn't have to worry about lost, damaged or degraded media. It would solve most of the complaints except for those wanting free material. It would eliminate a lot of the distribution issues and end the dependence on satelites. No more screwed up signals when there's a lot of solar activity. Granted we're talking decades away but there is a potential for secured storage and distribution of media.

    1. Re:What about.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      How would this protect against someone putting a video recorder in front of the monitor?

      There is no such thing as unbreakable DRM. Spend your effort comping up with a business model that allows you to benefit from all those millions of people craving to consume your media instead.

  28. Reply to whine... by robbak · · Score: 1

    If your karma is listed as excellent, your posts start on 2. If you choose them to. Too. Choo choo.

    (Maybe I should have AC'd this one!)

    --
    Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
  29. DOS by pfortuny · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Problem with what is today called qc is that it is not cryptography, it is a safe signing algorithm.

    So what if the eavesdropper makes the communication impossible just tainting each and every bit? As they are not safe, they are deemed worthless and the message needs to be re-sent...

    This seems to me the problem. You have not built a safe channel, you have built an eavesdropper-aware channel, which is not the same.

    1. Re:DOS by fabs64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The point being that you can use the eavesdropper-aware channel to exchange a key-pair that you KNOW hasn't been intercepted. After that you can use any medium as your safe channel.

  30. I really wish they'd rename this technology... by mbessey · · Score: 1

    Calling it "Quantum Encryption" just confuses what it is and how it works. Calling it "Quantum Key Exchange", would be a lot more accurate.

  31. Quantum cryptography and man-in-the-middle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    See e.g. Wikipedia:

    Quantum cryptography is still vulnerable to a type of MITM where the interceptor (Eve) establishes herself as "Alice" to Bob, and as "Bob" to Alice. Then, Eve simply has to perform QC negotiations on both sides simultaneously, obtaining two different keys. Alice-side key is used to decrypt the incoming message, which is reencrypted using the Bob-side key. This attack fails if both sides can verify each other's identity.
  32. They're different things by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, quantum encryption and computing are different things.

    Quantum encryption is, well, basically nothing about using quantum mechanics to _encrypt_, but to send the key (and maybe the data too). The idea is that you send single photons. So basically if someone tapped into the line, you can't split the photon and get only a bit of the signal. Either you get it or the endpoint gets it, but not both. It makes man-in-the-middle attacks a bit harder. In fact, it claims to make it outright impossible.

    Since the whole idea here is to elliminate the possibility for a man in the middle, intrusion detection is something valuable. Mind you, if the sending single photons was as un-interceptable as originally claimed, intrusion should be simply not possible, so I'm a bit stumped as to why would they want to detect something impossible. Maybe they know something we don't about how impossible it really is? (E.g., come to think of it, a laser kind of device inserted on the line could multiply that original photon thousands of times, all the clones having the exact same phase, polarisation, whatever.)

    It may be pie-in-the-sky, I don't know, but at least it's one of those sane ideas that aren't too impossible to understand even for the layman. The only "quantum" thing about it is that you send individual quanta of light, i.e., photons. Since it's only one and it's indivisible, only one endpoint can get it. All simple and sane, IMHO.

    Quantum computing, on the other hand, I don't know... there must be some sane researchers out there who know what they're doing, no doubt. But the media and marketting hype has drowned it all in so much bullshit it could fertilize a few acres, so from the layman (even with a decent grasp of physics and computing) point of view, it's hard to even tell what it would _really_ do, how it would work at all, and how would it be useful at all.

    I've even seen such bullshit claims like that it basically holds all possible states at the same time, so it can calculate anything instantly, since the solution state is already one it simultaneously holds. Which is blatantly bull. If it simply holds all possible states at the same time, that's as good as saying that it has no state at all, or you can't measure it. To get an answer out of the computer, you need to get out of it a particular state which represents the result of the calculation. By that logic I could give you a CD with all possible 4 million DWORD (4 byte, 32 bit) values, from -2 million to 2 million, one of which is the result to your problem. There you go, any problem that has a DWORD result already has the result on that CD, so it was "calculated" instantly. Isn't it an impressive feat? I don't even know your problem, but that CD already has the result to it. It's also completely freakin' useless, if you don't know which one of them. That CD as such holds no more actual usable information that that it's a 32 bit number, which you knew in the first place.

    Not saying that that's what the actual researchers study, but that's the kind of bogus info that you see from the outside. It's damn hard to tell if it's actually something that might work, or just snake oil to get a clueless VC's money. On par with extracting free energy out of water, the Infinium console, and other such fine con schemes that some people actually dumped millions into.

    The only sorta working quantum implementations so far, are basically not even as much quantum computers as hyped, as glorified analog computers. The thing about quantum mechanics is that 99% of it are probabilities.

    As some trivial examples, you can't tell for example exactly where an electron is in a potential well (e.g., in a CMOS transistor), or in some cases even if it is still in the potential well or it's out of it already, but you can calculate a probability cloud of, basically, what are the chances of it being in this particular point. Or if you do interference with electrons (think the school physics experiment with shining a light through two thin slots, o

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:They're different things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      QC is not bullshit from a mathematical perspective; there are well know algorithms(such as the Shor factoring algorithm)..and IBM tested it back in 2001.

      The problem w/ QC is having enough entangled qubits to get up to useful capacity..and its an insanely difficult engineering challenge.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing is a good intro to QC.

      While I agree that VC's will hype anything, your post is FUD crossed witha bit of 'get off my lawn, young whippersnappers'; its also clear that you didn't spend 5 minutes researching QC before you held forth on it. Yes, it will be specialized and won't replace normal digital computers.

      Don't take this personally, but the fact that I can find complete nonsense at 5 insightful is one of the reasons that I don't read slashdot comments much; there is rarely a more misleading source of information available.

    2. Re:They're different things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've even seen such bullshit claims like that it basically holds all possible states at the same time, so it can calculate anything instantly, since the solution state is already one it simultaneously holds. Which is blatantly bull. If it simply holds all possible states at the same time, that's as good as saying that it has no state at all, or you can't measure it.

      No, it's not 'bull'. It's a pretty good description of what's actually going on. Think Schroedinger's cat. There is a single cat, and it's in some pure state, but that state is equal to a mixture of the "alive" state and the "dead" state.

      As some trivial examples, you can't tell for example exactly where an electron is in a potential well (e.g., in a CMOS transistor), or in some cases even if it is still in the potential well or it's out of it already, but you can calculate a probability cloud of, basically, what are the chances of it being in this particular point.

      Perhaps you have not taken a class in quantum mechanics, or perhaps it has been a while. Well, here's the deal.

      It's not that the electron is located at some particular position, and you can't tell exactly where it is. In actual fact, the electron is not located at a single point. Its position is completely described by a complex-valued function over space. (viz., a 'wavefunction') This function completely describes the electron's momentum as well, which is a neat trick. So what you are calculating is not a 'probability cloud'. The wavefunction is the electron's position.

      This is not just some theoretical construction. It is very important to the way that atoms and molecules act. They would behave very differently if electrons and nuclei acted in a familiar classical way, like baseballs or planets. Instead, they behave according to the rules of quantum mechanics, which actually work pretty well. The quantum computing guys want to take this interesting behavior and use it to our benefit in making computations.

    3. Re:They're different things by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1
      > No, it's not 'bull'. It's a pretty good description of what's actually going on.

      No, it's a perfectly decent objection. A quantum superposition of states is much less than 'hold[ing] all possible states" and to suggest that it is is misleading. For example, given an n-qubit system, you can store no more than n classical bits in it, rather than the 2^n or so that the "all posible states" picture suggests. Similarly we know that we can perform a quantum database search on N items in time sqrt(N) using Grover's algorithm and that this can't be beaten. So again a quantum computer acts like far less than N states existing in parallel.

      > The wavefunction is the electron's position.

      Funny how the wavefunction is supposedly the electron's position and yet every attempt to measure its position gives a definite point in space.
      --
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    4. Re:They're different things by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      No, it's not 'bull'. It's a pretty good description of what's actually going on. Think Schroedinger's cat. There is a single cat, and it's in some pure state, but that state is equal to a mixture of the "alive" state and the "dead" state.

      It so happens that that's perfectly useless in practice. Schroedinger's cat is a very useful mental image for an introduction to quantum mechanics, but for any kind of computing theory the deal is that at some point you have to open the lid and see if the cat is dead or not. The uncertainty ends there and then. At that point it all falls back to being just a normal bit, no more. The cat is either dead or not dead.

      Ok, quantum wave functions are a bit more complex than that, but saying that it holds all possible states at the same time is still as bullshit as it gets. No it doesn't. You have a wave function, and any useful way of using it, is essentially using that wave functuion, _not_ some nebulous having all states at the same time.

      There's a lot of smoke and mirrors in the computing industry as it is, and there's this dangerous "well, everyone else is doing it" precedent we've allowed. The bullshitters and marketters run the show unchecked. And the whole "quantum" deal just gave them a lot more ammo and some defenseless targets to use it on. You can bury a layperson alive in bullshit before they even smell anything wrong. The statement that it holds everything and calculates everything at the same time is just such bullshit. What happens in practice is a lot more complex and a lot more limited.

      Perhaps you have not taken a class in quantum mechanics, or perhaps it has been a while.

      I could say the same, seeing that you completely ommit the "particle" aspect. The electron isn't just wave, it's both.

      Well, here's the deal.

      It's not that the electron is located at some particular position, and you can't tell exactly where it is. In actual fact, the electron is not located at a single point. Its position is completely described by a complex-valued function over space. (viz., a 'wavefunction') This function completely describes the electron's momentum as well, which is a neat trick. So what you are calculating is not a 'probability cloud'. The wavefunction is the electron's position.

      No, here's the deal: at some point you actually measure it and it _is_ in just one place.

      Think the interference experiment again, because it's a very fundamental thing. You have an electron source, you run them through two slits, you get the interference pattern on a CRT-like coated screen. You know it already, right? Well, here's the deal:

      1. Yes, the wave aspect is inherent, because you can get an interference pattern even if you emit one electron at a time. You already knew that, obviouly. But

      2. For each such electron you get a single blip of light in a very well defined place. You do not get the screen illuminating all over the place, you get a single scintilation in a very well defined place. There is one single atom or mollecule hit by that electron. The wave function may spread all over the place, but what it really tells you is the probability of the electron actually being there. But other than in a metaphoric sense, the electron itself is still only in one place, and hits one single atom, not every single atom intersecting that wave function.

      This is not just some theoretical construction. It is very important to the way that atoms and molecules act. They would behave very differently if electrons and nuclei acted in a familiar classical way, like baseballs or planets. Instead, they behave according to the rules of quantum mechanics, which actually work pretty well. The quantum computing guys want to take this interesting behavior and use it to our benefit in making computations.

      I wasn't saying that electrons and atoms act like baseballs and planets, far from it. But they're no

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    5. Re:They're different things by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      QC is not bullshit from a mathematical perspective; there are well know algorithms(such as the Shor factoring algorithm)..and IBM tested it back in 2001.

      IBM is a big entity. They have a lot of pure science research going on, but they also have more PR bullshitters than Saruman had orcs. Are you sure which department you got your info from? So far a lot of other research PR announcements coming from IBM have been, well, certainly not outright lies, but ommited enough context that a layman would be highly likely to jump to a very mis-leading conclusion. E.g., when they tell you that they tested a 100 GHz transistor and hype how useful that would be for future CPUs, they deliberately ommit to tell you that a whole CPU will _never_ run at the speed of an individual transistor.

      And so it is with quantum computers too. IBM was actually a lot lighter on the bullshit than usual, I must admit that, but what may not be obvious is that basically they didn't as much create anything even resembling a universal computer, but:

      1. The mollecule used is pretty much hard-coded to implement that one algorithm. Their 7 qubits are 7 of the atoms (2x C and 5x F atoms) in that specialized mollecule.

      I.e., that for every single problem you'll ever have to solve on this kind of computer, you have to go through years of research just to design the mollecule that solves it. And for all the years of research, the best they've come up with so far is factoring the number 15. So it's a hell of a lot of a mis-leading potential to think that QC is the cure-all replacement for digital computers, like the hypesters claim.

      2. Basically it _is_ an analog computer. That's why they used a whole vial of the stuff, and not 1 atom. Getting that complex state out of it, given that the wave form is statistics, needs a big enough sample for the statistics to work.

      The problem w/ QC is having enough entangled qubits to get up to useful capacity..and its an insanely difficult engineering challenge.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_computing is a good intro to QC.

      Trust me, I had read that, and it sounds a lot less impressive if you know at least a little quantum mechanics, than what the PR bullshitters spin it into. Saying that you need N complex numbers to describe the state, and being able to change that whole state in one go, doesn't actually mean you can process N arbitrary complex numbers in any possible way in one go.

      And the problems are more complex than that. For starters I've never read about an obvious way to actually get that complex probabilistic state out of it. Schroedinger's cat is only a mixture of dead and alive until you open the lid: then it's either dead or alive, _not_ a mixture of both. Wave shapes are just probabilities, not actually an analog number and not actually something that you can measure on one electron/atom/whatever. That electron's spin is a theoretical probabilistic mixture of up and down only until you measure it: then it's only a 1 or a 0, i.e., a single bit. You _could_ measure the whole analog domain if you had a lot of electrons, but not just one. It's like trying to get the exact probability of a four-leaf clover by picking a single clover. It doesn't work that way.

      While I agree that VC's will hype anything, your post is FUD crossed witha bit of 'get off my lawn, young whippersnappers'; its also clear that you didn't spend 5 minutes researching QC before you held forth on it. Yes, it will be specialized and won't replace normal digital computers.

      Don't take this personally, but the fact that I can find complete nonsense at 5 insightful is one of the reasons that I don't read slashdot comments much; there is rarely a more misleading source of information available.

      Well, I appreciate a good ad-hominem as much as the next guy, but I must say even here you disappoint. You _assume_ tha

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    6. Re:They're different things by TuringTest · · Score: 1


      I've even seen such bullshit claims like that it basically holds all possible states at the same time, so it can calculate anything instantly, since the solution state is already one it simultaneously holds. Which is blatantly bull. If it simply holds all possible states at the same time, that's as good as saying that it has no state at all, or you can't measure it. To get an answer out of the computer, you need to get out of it a particular state which represents the result of the calculation. By that logic I could give you a CD with all possible 4 million DWORD (4 byte, 32 bit) values, from -2 million to 2 million, one of which is the result to your problem. There you go, any problem that has a DWORD result already has the result on that CD, so it was "calculated" instantly. Isn't it an impressive feat? I don't even know your problem, but that CD already has the result to it. It's also completely freakin' useless, if you don't know which one of them. That CD as such holds no more actual usable information that that it's a 32 bit number, which you knew in the first place.


      I know little about quantum mechanics and have no clue about quantum computing, but being an expert in constraint-based problem solving perhaps I may throw some light on how this might actually work.

      Automated reasoning and theorem proving are usually computed by performing inferences over a search space, defined by a problem stated in a declarative language. A way to represent this kind of problems is by defining a "raw" region of data (like your "All the possible DWORDS", and then asserting constraints over the data that all solutions must fulfil. A classic solver will then proceed to generate many candidate solutions one after another, testing whether they break one of the constraints.

      As an example of how this strategy, think of the Eratostenes sieve - you have a pool of numbers in sequence, and want to find all primes. First you remove every second number (greater than 2), because you know those numbers are even; do the same to every third number, every fifth (4 is already removed), etc. This algorithm is not efficient in a classic computer because you have to loop number by number through every inference step.

      The dream of every IA researcher and every parallel computer designer would be a way to test all generated candidate solutions at once, instead of looping through them one by one. Quantum computing, if works as advertised, would provide just that - they should implement flooding algorithms in which the computer follows all viable reasoning paths simultaneously, while the stated constraints prune all the forbidden states.

      Since all followed paths are equally valid, it doesn't matter to which particular solution the system will collapse when finally observing the result. As the number of loops required to solve logic combinatorial problems grow exponentially, this could reduce the required time to linear, in many cases.

      Practical quantum computers are still far away, if ever possible. But if they can work as I've described (and for what people are doing, they might work), they could represent an advance in the field as important as the transistor was to digital computers.

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    7. Re:They're different things by qcomp · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since the whole idea here is to elliminate the possibility for a man in the middle, intrusion detection is something valuable. Mind you, if the sending single photons was as un-interceptable as originally claimed, intrusion should be simply not possible, so I'm a bit stumped as to why would they want to detect something impossible. Maybe they know something we don't about how impossible it really is? (E.g., come to think of it, a laser kind of device inserted on the line could multiply that original photon thousands of times, all the clones having the exact same phase, polarisation, whatever.)

      The point is not that intrusion is impossible - but that it is always possible to detect intrusion (and hence abort the key distribution process if it is not secure).
      The point of the decoys is, AFAIK, essentially bandwidth: it makes it easier to detect intrusion nd less of the "key" has to be sacrificed for that purpose.

      The basic point of quantum key distribution (QKD) is that any eavesdropping attempt will unavoidably (by, at your preference, the uncertainty principle, the no-cloning principle, or monogamy of entanglement) introduce noise into the data shared by the two communication partners -- and that the amount of noise in the transmitted data (which is in practice also unavoidable, even if there is no eavesdropping at all) allows one to put a strict upper bound on any information a possible eavesdropper might have obtained. If the bound is sufficiently low, further classical "privacy amplification" can then make the shared key as secret as desired, otherwise the protocol must be aborted.

      In the first protocols, a random sequence of only four quantum states was sent from A to B and used both for intrusion detection and key generation. It may not be surprising that sending other states as well (and monitoring what becomes of them) may tell A and B more about the eavesdroppers actions.

      BTW: the process behind the "kind of laser device" is "stimulated emission", which has indeed be shown to work in some cases as an "optimal cloning device". But even optimal cloning does not break QKD, since it can only clone half of the states faithfully and introduces noise in the other half.

    8. Re:They're different things by TuringTest · · Score: 1

      s/IA/Artificial Intelligence/

      --
      Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    9. Re:They're different things by ed_g2s · · Score: 1

      E.g., come to think of it, a laser kind of device inserted on the line could multiply that original photon thousands of times, all the clones having the exact same phase, polarisation, whatever.
      Sure - you've just blown away decades of research into quantum cryptography with an "of the top of my head". Mod parent as "lazy", and advise him to read a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_cryptography.
  33. 5.5 kbps limit by Jordan+Catalano · · Score: 1

    I don't see how this bandwidth is a problem for secure key exchange.

    Isn't the point of this to make it practical to utilize high bandwidth yet unsecured connections to send heavily encrypted data? Even when changing the key very frequently, the secure quantum channel should be more than fast enough.

    It's just like satellite TV encryption. The data stream can be received with zero chance of detection anywhere within the satellite's footprint: even less secure than sending data over the internet. By having a seperate secure* key distribution stream, they can get away with this without massive piracy. In this case, this "stream" is the physical transfer of smart cards with keys stored on them.

    * The problem is, it's not secure. Since the physical distribution of keys via smart card is so slow, the video decryption keys are sent encrypted over the high bandwidth yet unsecured satellite connection along with the video stream. The card uses its key to decrypt the video key, which is then sent back to the satellite receiver to decrypt the video stream. Since the receiver is ultimately less tamper-resistant than the smart card, and it could be possible to extract a video key from its RAM while running, this allows the video key to be changed every few seconds, making distribution of current keys to others useless. While this sounds good, the cards are not as tamper-proof as they'd like to be, and the expense of constantly swapping all customers' cards to new ones with fixes creates a legacy loophole. Combine this with an intrinsic inability to keep hackers from physically accessing all needed decryption hardware and no means to detect their hacks remotely, and it makes this method of key distribution very insecure against determined individuals. With good quantum connections, all these problems are avoided.

  34. Re:Mod parent up - it's easy to steal from servers by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Assuming the receiving mail server has a correctly signed certificate, it is practically impossible to intercept the mail in transit from one server to another. The catch it, the encrypted path is not guaranteed from end-to-end. If I send you an email, I will send it over a TLS connection to my mail server. It will then send it to your mail server (identified by MX), which may then forward it for several hops before it actually reaches you. I have no way of guaranteeing that the connection is secure beyond the first hop (my laptop to my mail server). Anything else might be no better than plain text because it might be plain text. If you want secure email, you need to use some kind of end-to-end encryption such as PGP and make sure you exchange keys over a secure out-of-band channel. Or, you can just accept that email isn't secure.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  35. "Scientists Make Quantum Encryption Breakthrough' by Greg.Rodden · · Score: 1

    WAIT!!! don't click on the link, it will change the outcome!!!

    --
    I have ridden the mighty moon worm!
  36. That would be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    " quantum encryption completely secure (registration required) " - that would be quantum registration then ? :-)

  37. Too much irony? by tgv · · Score: 1

    So was there too much irony in my post? In your terms: bad editting means the readers lose, which could (eventually) drive them away from Slashdot, by which nobody would gain anything.

  38. These drawbacks are not insurmountable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Elsewhere in the comments people have correctly pointed out that it isn't encryption at all and that it is fundamentally incompatible with any router, switch, bridge or even repeater.
    A high-grade link that includes only all-optical routers, switches, etc. is compatible with this technique. What it needs is so-called lambda service with sufficiently high signal-to-noise; the enabling technologies for this are out there and will only become more widespread.

    The issue that should have killed this idea ten years ago when Shamir pointed it out is that an attacker who has spliced the fiber can read the polarizer without ever looking at a single one of the transmitted photons.
    While this is a clever attack, it does not work if the transmitter uses no active switching elements for state preparation. For example, you can build a separate transmitter for each state and combine their outputs.

    Send the $#$@! key material by bonded courier in a tamper-evident package if it's that important. If for some reason that's not enough then split (e.g. Blakely-Shamir) the key material into shares, send each separately, and recombine when needed.
    That approach is sometimes inconvenient and/or regarded as insufficiently secure.
  39. Very silly article! Not quantum anything by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1
    This is a very silly concept. What they've done is rename "Steganography", the art of hiding messages.

    They're intentionally sending MANY photons, to get a stronger signal, to improve the data rate. So they're not using "quantum" anything. They're also adding a bunch of decoy photons, to confuse the evesdroppers.

    Nothing at all new here, move on...

  40. Grammar Nazi Alert by Chemicalscum · · Score: 1
    Title is ungrammatical should read:

    Scientist Makes ......, in the case of one scientist singular or Scientists Make in the case of several or many scientists plural.

  41. This is not steganography by querist · · Score: 1

    I hate to split hairs, but this is _not_ steganography. There is a subtle difference.

    This is not hiding the existance of the message. It is simply obfuscating it with the decoy photons. It is still obvious that a message is being sent.

    Steganography is hiding the very existance of the message, such as the ancient example of shaving a slave's head, tatooing the message on his bald scalp, waiting for the hair to regrow, and then sending the slave to the recipient of the message. To any outsider the slave was just (most likely) one of several slaves moving with some other people from one place to another.

    At the destination the slave's head would be shaved again and the message revealed. Unfortunately, this usually would also result in the slave being killed to prevent the secret method from ever being revealed.

    Thus, this "quantum encryption" is not steganography, but two things: a method to prevent reading of a message by way of quantum mechanics and a method of obfuscating (e.g. chaffing) a message.

    (background - I have a Ph.D. in infosec and AI)

    1. Re:This is not steganography by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 1
      You're partially right- it's more like adding nulls to a message.

      But I still think it's not "quantum" at all if they're upping the photon count.

  42. Pessimism by benhocking · · Score: 1

    quantum computing is at least 100 years from being practically able to do what is needed

    That really depends on who you ask. 100 years is definitely a pessimistic claim. That said, I'm fairly pessimistic, too.

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  43. First Crypt course by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1
    Usually the first thing you are told in a cryptography course is "Anyone that claims their encryption is unbreakable is either a liar or doesn't know what he is talking about." I used that quote years ago when IBM claimed it had an unbreakable crypt system and I was shown to be right. I claimed it for this quantum crap years ago but never bothered to submit a proof on it. Seemed obvious to me. Besides, someone else already had a handle on it and could write better than I can. So here is yet another attempt. I'm not buying it. Probably more secure but not unbreakable.

    Besides, the technology isn't the real issue anyhow. It is the people at both ends that have access to the data. They are the real problem with keeping stuff secret.

    1. Re:First Crypt course by nasch · · Score: 1

      Usually the first thing you are told in a cryptography course is "Anyone that claims their encryption is unbreakable is either a liar or doesn't know what he is talking about."
      Anybody who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. One-time pads, if implemented correctly, are unbreakable encryption. Anybody who claims their security is unbreakable is wrong, because security involves more than just encryption, but it is possible to have the encryption part of it be unbreakable. Still susceptible to other kinds of attacks (such as holding a gun to the recipient's head) but the encryption cannot be broken.

      I used that quote years ago when IBM claimed it had an unbreakable crypt system and I was shown to be right.
      Which of course does not imply you will be right the next time you use it. :-)
    2. Re:First Crypt course by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1
      Anybody who says that doesn't know what they're talking about. One-time pads, if implemented correctly, are unbreakable encryption.

      Talk about a caveat emptor. If we break it you would simply claim it wasn't implemented correctly. Big deal. And you have the nerve to say I don't know what I'm talking about? You have been mislead.

      You would be wrong about one time pads in the real world. They (by they I mean some of the most secretive, unreasonable, well funded governments the world has seen) have tried that before. Obviously you haven't visited the National Cryptography Museum as they have real life examples and how they were compromised. The whole point to encryption is to use a key that is shorter than the message. In the case of one time pads that isn't true. Otherwise if it is shorter then you are talking about an algorithm of some sort and therefore (so far) it theoretically can be cracked. One time pads were brought up in class as well and that is what he said. Do you seriously think a simple ceasar substitution cipher with a random base per character is viable (i.e. your one time pad)? If you do, work for the enemy... please. Point in fact, when one time pads have been used in the past, they ended up being used more than once (and often many more times than once) making your example breakable, even trivial. One time pads are simply not that handy nor random. Please don't feel bad about this. If you go into this field you may turn out to be a first rate cryptologist. I think it was one of the most humbling diciplines I ever undertook. I thought I was so smart (yes, I was young back then too) only to find out what I had done had been tried before. Worse, it may be an excersize to crack in your first homework assignment. That happened to a guy that thought he had the end all and be all encryption routine. I think most of the class managed to crack his cipher that night. Those that didn't were in way over their head and we usually didn't see them much anymore. Another point to drive this home - don't you think that if one time pads were that unbreakeable and viable they would use that (more in business, government, etc) rather than spending billions to develop the science required for quantum crypt? USB key drives are dirt cheap and hold a lot, surely we could make a bunch of them with one time pads. I wouldn't bet much on it being secure. At least secure for very long. I feel much safer using an algorithm that is considered military grade, even the AES standard.

      Which of course does not imply you will be right the next time you use it. :-)

      It is right until it isn't. I may not live to see that. Sort of like Moore's law... he may end up dying before it is wrong. As unlikely as that has seemed a number of times. I think I will live to see Moore's get broken. I feel safe with mine.

    3. Re:First Crypt course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you seriously think a simple ceasar substitution cipher with a random base per character is viable (i.e. your one time pad)? If you do, work for the enemy... please.

      A caesar cipher is a rotary substition cipher though. Perhaps you meant to say that a one time pad is a substitution cipher with a random base per character? In which case I fail to see how a xor based one time pad can be broken given that a key can be found to decrypt the cipher-text to any plain-text that will fit in the message. Could you enlighten me? I would prefer it if you stuck to rigourous mathematical proofs rather than anecdotes and scorn but I'm not too hopeful.

      Of course in the real world I completely agree that one time pads aren't practical and people do stupid things like using them more than once. The human component is always the weakest part of any security system. However it is not an flaw which renders properly implemented one time pads theoretically breakable. You may not like the 'properly implemented' cavet, but it's necessary. If you break an encryption that is not properly implemented you have not broken the same encryption described in the theory. The cavet is not an excuse for every attack found, only those against improperly implemented schemes. For one time pads you'll find the former is the same as the later.

    4. Re:First Crypt course by nasch · · Score: 1

      If we break it you would simply claim it wasn't implemented correctly.
      Since that's the only way to break them, I'd have to agree. :-)

      The whole point to encryption is to use a key that is shorter than the message.
      I'd be interested to read any references you can supply indicating that that is the "whole point" of encryption. I have never heard this before. My understanding is the whole point of encryption is to restrict information to those it's intended for.

      Point in fact, when one time pads have been used in the past, they ended up being used more than once (and often many more times than once) making your example breakable, even trivial.
      Thus, "not used correctly", thus this is a strawman argument. If used correctly, the encryption is unbreakable. If used incorrectly, the encryption is breakable, perhaps much more easily than other methods (I don't know).

      One time pads are simply not that handy nor random.
      I never said they were handy, I said they were unbreakable. And what is inherently non-random about them?

      If you go into this field you may turn out to be a first rate cryptologist.
      Thanks, but I doubt it. I don't think my math skills are that good.

      Another point to drive this home - don't you think that if one time pads were that unbreakeable and viable they would use that (more in business, government, etc) rather than spending billions to develop the science required for quantum crypt?
      I said it was unbreakable, I never said it was viable. OTP is very difficult to use correctly and almost never worthwhile or a good idea. However, quantum key exchange could make it more practical for certain narrowly-defined cases.

      USB key drives are dirt cheap and hold a lot, surely we could make a bunch of them with one time pads. I wouldn't bet much on it being secure. At least secure for very long.
      I wouldn't either, for the aforementioned reasons. Somebody is almost certain to mess it up sooner or later, probably sooner. But until somebody messes up, I guarantee nobody will break the encryption.

      It is right until it isn't.
      It isn't. After everything you've said, you haven't mentioned one time when a properly implemented OTP system has had its encryption broken. That is because if all the rules are followed, there is simply no way to break the encryption - it is not even possible in theory. It does not matter how much computing power you have, it does not matter how much time you have, and it does not matter what algorithms you have access to. It simply cannot be done. Since a cryptographic attack on such a system is useless, one must attack it another way, which is certainly possible to do.

      Are you still going to tell me it's possible to break the encryption of a correct OTP system?

    5. Re:First Crypt course by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1
      I'd be interested to read any references you can supply indicating that that is the "whole point" of encryption. I have never heard this before. My understanding is the whole point of encryption is to restrict information to those it's intended for.

      Context is important. You do want to restrict who can read the information. One barrier to OTP traditionally is it is as large as the message. Before computers that was a real pain and error prone. Practical encryption means you have something small to hide something large (steganography - something large to hide something small but that is another area). Kind of tough to explain this without getting into an intro course on this and an advanced course on why OTP isn't that secure. Maybe I can explain a bit below.

      And what is inherently non-random about them?

      One very important part of a OTP is that each space must be truly random to work. Otherwise if there is a pattern then it will help you with the subsequent symbols (i.e. characters and spaces). In practice it is very difficult to get a truly random generator. Find the pattern and you are well on your way to cracking it and any other OTP's from whoever made that pad. They tend to always use the same random generator because they believe it is random.

      Thanks, but I doubt it. I don't think my math skills are that good.

      That is unfortunate. We need more scientific type people. Too many are old and retiring.

      it isn't. After everything you've said, you haven't mentioned one time when a properly implemented OTP system has had its encryption broken. That is because if all the rules are followed, there is simply no way to break the encryption - it is not even possible in theory. It does not matter how much computing power you have, it does not matter how much time you have, and it does not matter what algorithms you have access to. It simply cannot be done. Since a cryptographic attack on such a system is useless, one must attack it another way, which is certainly possible to do.
      Are you still going to tell me it's possible to break the encryption of a correct OTP system?

      Sure I am. It has been done before. I can't give away the store here for obvious reasons (i.e. mention even a single case), that is why I mentioned the National Cryptographic Museum. I know that stuff is ok to be in public view and they have an example. What I know might not be and I can't take a chance on that. However there are certain things you know about OTP. For example how many symbols it is. If you happen to know who sent it and what it may be about then you already have important information on what it might say. Guesses are often very useful in practice. If you know that and where it should be then it can cut down possibilities considerably. Often times you don't need to decrypt the entire message, you only need to decrypt enough to be useful. Like a date or name for example ("Rainbow Warrior", Midway Island). One time pads are very useful for things like that as it turns out. So even if you did follow all the strict rules on it, it is possible to still figure out what was said if I know enough about it. Sure, if you used a OTP to encrypt something I have no clue about it probably would remain a mystery forever, perhaps even from you if you lost your own pad. You probably wouldn't do that, you would use it to hide something you didn't want others to see.... and what might that be? Of course that can be used as a counter measure as well. Send your laundry list, letter to your daughter, text from a news paper even nonsense through OTP just to keep real messages obscured. Of course by doing that you may expose the pattern to the OTP. See where this is going? This is why it isn't used. Strong ciphers don't divulge things like the length of the message, context, spaces. You are in the dark the whole way through if at all possible. Very costly to break it, computationally.

      So yes, OTP can be very secure to unbreakable in theory. In practice they can be surprisingly breakable. The worst thing you can do is be arrogent and think it is unbreakable.

    6. Re:First Crypt course by nasch · · Score: 1

      In practice it is very difficult to get a truly random generator.
      Why is that? There are companies that sell random number generation hardware. Are you saying they're flawed or something?

      Sure I am. It has been done before. I can't give away the store here for obvious reasons (i.e. mention even a single case), that is why I mentioned the National Cryptographic Museum.
      You'd have to kill me if you told me. Feel free to trot that out, but I hope you don't expect me to take your word for it.

      Guesses are often very useful in practice.
      Sure. If you redefine "decrypt" or "break" as "guess about" then it becomes really easy.

      The worst thing you can do is be arrogent and think it is unbreakable.

      Using a system without knowing its limitations would be very foolish, yes.
    7. Re:First Crypt course by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1
      Why is that? There are companies that sell random number generation hardware. Are you saying they're flawed or something?

      Short answer - yes. However it is more than adequate for most applications. Even commercial/business/banking encryption. The biggest threat there isn't the encryption being cracked, it is the guy taking your credit card to ring you up or the card reader for example. There are far cheaper ways of getting secret information than to try to attack the encryption. Besides, the random number generator isn't as important there. I'm talking about people that need to keep stuff secure even if the enemy has an unlimited budget and they haven't been able to get someone on the inside or someplace else that is much easier to crack. OTP would work for business too, however like I said before it isn't practical.

      You'd have to kill me if you told me. Feel free to trot that out, but I hope you don't expect me to take your word for it.

      Maybe you didn't read all of what I wrote to you? Maybe you have cryptographers confused with some other organization? There are things called laws against such conduct with very severe penalties. I'd have to be a total idiot to do such a thing. Once again you don't have to take my word for it. Go to the National Cryptographic Museum. There is a reference out there that talks about OTP and gets very close to what I would like to tell you towards the bottom here - http://www.vectorsite.net/ttcode_04.html where he talks about OTP. Essentially the intro course I didn't want to reiterate here though it seems that I have and you still don't get it. If you are smart you can figure it out from there. If not, feel free to continue to believe OTP can never be cracked. Feel free to believe in the tooth fairy as well.

      Sure. If you redefine "decrypt" or "break" as "guess about" then it becomes really easy.

      The name of the game is to crack it by any means available. There are very strict rules on how this can be done in the case of an educated guess. Often it is the case they use encryption that you don't know the length, you have to do it the hard way. Sometimes that means brute force. Sometimes that means something else. Anyhow, have a nice day.

    8. Re:First Crypt course by nasch · · Score: 1

      There are companies that sell random number generation hardware. Are you saying they're flawed or something?
      Short answer - yes.
      I've never heard this before - do you have any references, or will a google search turn them up?

      There are things called laws against such conduct with very severe penalties. I'd have to be a total idiot to do such a thing.
      Doesn't really matter, I'm not going to believe "I know of a counterexample, but I'm not going to tell you" regardless of how good your reason for not telling me is.

      There is a reference out there that talks about OTP and gets very close to what I would like to tell you towards the bottom here - http://www.vectorsite.net/ttcode_04.html where he talks about OTP.
      He sums up what I've been saying right at the beginning: "The First World War also led to the development of a cipher, the "one-time pad", that was provably impossible to crack by analytic methods. However, this cipher also had drawbacks that made it too clumsy for most practical use at the time." And later, "One of the significant achievements in cryptography in the First World War was a cipher that was, and remains, uncrackable even in principle. As is typical of black magic, it had a significant catch." And again, "While the one-time pad cipher clearly looks difficult to crack, what is not so obvious is that it is completely impossible to crack by any cryptanalytic method." I did not see any mention of an instance of properly-implemented OTP being cryptographically cracked - only the Russian diplomatic encryption, which was done incorrectly. On the other hand, you didn't reiterate this claim, so maybe you've abandoned it.

      The name of the game is to crack it by any means available.
      Yes, and that's why OTP isn't widely used.
  44. haha by Is0m0rph · · Score: 1

    Quantum encryption break through and I click on the story and see a video still of someone giving someone else a huge wedgie. That's not the quantum encryption break through I was hoping for.

  45. It's impossible to stop piracy by Paulrothrock · · Score: 1

    You know why? Because the people you want to protect the content from are the same people you want to sell the content to.

    Make it easily available through normal means and piracy will go down.

    --
    I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
  46. Military downside? by failedlogic · · Score: 1

    Isn't another downside of Quantum encryption the fact that it might render military intelligence unable to decrypt enemy messages? Quite a few wars/battles have been won by decrypting key enemy communications to find out troop, supply, and critical target locations. As well, giving false information to trap the enemy has been used many times.

    1. Re:Military downside? by n4LR · · Score: 1

      the quantum encryption in this article still suffers from 'man in the middle attacks'. I think the idea the security people have in mind is the message is destroyed once you read it, but theres no stopping someone from reading the message and resending it. this technique adds little to security. a determined hacker will find it harder to break regular encryption anyway. i think it will amount to the hacker sighing and muttering ' dammit i have to get out the repeater again' p.s. quantum computing can decrypt encrypted messages in use today instantly - from what I heard elsewhere.

  47. "AUTH TLS" email forwarding by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    It's a little better than plain text, but if you can get an agent on a mail server that sends or receives mail (or just break in and take the current contents), your transport encryption buys you nothing. In other words, the messages sent over AUTH TLS are still stored in the clear "at rest" on the hard drive (shudder).

    If you want to get serious about encryption in email,you should probably be checking out SMIME (or at least PGP)...

  48. Monkey Wrench by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just inject continous noise into the system.
    Makes the whole thing useless.

  49. Breakthrough by pontifier · · Score: 1

    In reality, attackers will follow the path of least resistance. In my opinion there is really no reason to have perfect encryption if other aspects of security are so laughable. Even running linux I don't feel truly secure. I have never read the source code for the programs I run. At this point in time, to me, computers are black boxes filled with 'programs' doing 'something', and until it is completely transparent exactly what my computer is doing, I won't feel secure. these things I require include: Always on and visible packet sniffer. complete disk and memory map always available. completely contained boot sequence that can be checked manually for correctness, and automatically against a hash to detect changes. Secure path to OS. This is a short list of what I need to feel secure.

    --
    -John Fenley
  50. im amused by um...+Lucas · · Score: 1

    I'm always amused by slashdot's fascination by quantum encryption. Unless I'm mistaken, it's only of any use if you have line of site with the machine at the other end of your communication channel, via satellite or fiber optic cable. And unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that applies to any of us... Yes, it's interesting, but in reality, the only beneficiary is secure government or inhouse corporate communications.

    It doesn't stand to benefit ecommerce unless every link in the communication is trusted, and it certainly doesn't benefit our privacy, unless you can afford to lay down a fiber cable from your home or office directly to the person you want to communicate with.

    You're not going to see a quantum encryption algorythm to run on your desktop computer and send secure emails to your buddies. It's just now how it works.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, please!

  51. sounds like obscurity to me by Secret+Rabbit · · Score: 1

    Hm, decoy pulses. Sounds like security through obscurity to me.

    I'll just wait till this actually gets peer reviewed (I'm assuming this as pretty much every "break through" has be broadcasted /before/ peer review and I'm not willing to even look at it until then - not exactly the science mentality to publish /before/ review IMO).

    Basically, let me know when the article shows up in something like PhysRef. NOT when it's on some newspaper's website.

  52. Yes/No/Maybe Tags by dunc78 · · Score: 1

    My personal favorite tags occur whenever the headline poses a question. Inevitably, you get both "Yes" and "No" tags and if you are truly lucky a "Maybe" tag might be thrown in as well. Talk about useless tags.

  53. "Security" is the wrong word by abb3w · · Score: 1

    As any geek worth its salt should know, "Security" has three essential and intertwined aspects: Integrity: will the data remain the same and be only changed when and how it should be; Accessibility: will the data stay accessible by those who should have access; and Privacy: will the data stay inaccessible to those who should not have access.

    This technique is intended to preserve Privacy, and possibly may help with Integrity; however, quantum cryptography gives no benefits to Accessibility aspects of security. If I cut your fiber lines, your message is no longer accessible. It's that simple.

    --
    //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
  54. Life imitates Art by KJSwartz · · Score: 1

    Dogbert patents Television Static and sells his "video library" to Dilbert's company.

    Now some business majors discover quantum white noise and use it as "decoy pulses".

  55. this is FUNNY! ..were it not EXPECTED! by tkjtkj · · Score: 1

    Now friends ..gather round for thIS one: Some scientists dream up a thing called 'Quantum Computing' , which includes "Totally SECURE' methods!!

    so .. what to we find??? We find that the same sequence of events is occurring before our eyes in THIS field as hav occurrd in the DRM world!!

    I didnt hear of any 'quantum vulnerability' before thiS lil announcement! Of course, they did manage to 'fix what was impossible to break' before telling us it was broken!!

    Sooo.. naturally, we gotta wonder where is the nEXT 'security flaw' in the quantum world!

    time will tell ..as it always has!

    --
    "There are 11 kinds of people: those who know binary, those who don't, and those who could not care less!"
  56. Well... by Poromenos1 · · Score: 1

    unless someone invents some sort of video-recording device, something with a light sensor, perhaps.

    --
    Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
  57. If only anyone invented something like that :) by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    Well, if anyone ever invented something like what you describe, it would be a very useful thing indeed. However, to the best of my knowledge even that is one thing that quantum computing hasn't (yet) been hyped as capable of doing. Not in the form you describe, anyway. Yes, we'd all love such an insanely parallel machine, but it's not going to happen like that, and not as a quantum computer.

    For starters, a set of qubits can hold a lot of information, basically some analog numbers, but it doesn't automatically implement any set of arbitrary constraints at them. Pretty much the only constraint you get, so to speak, for free, is that the sum of all those numbers must be 1. They're probabilities to be in any given state, and the total probability must be 1. That's it.

    Second, it really just holds a probability, _not_ all the possible states. Changing the state pretty much means shifting some of the probabilities around. So if you're hoping to actually hold and compute all possible solutions there simultaneously, you'll probably be in for a bit of a disappointment.

    Even if you assigned one of those probabilities to one possible solution, it's like saying that you assign every bit in the CPUs registers to whether or not one particular possible solution is correct or not. Just because you can assign some meaning to a bit, doesn't mean you get that for free. You still have to figure out an algorithm that actually changes all those bits to the right values. Or in the case of quantum computers, which shifts the probabilities just right.

    Third, the problem anyway would be, basically, implementing those constraints anyway. If you actually wanted to get them for free, you'd have to pretty much design a mollecule which automatically enforces them. To the best of my knowledge, noone ever proposed (seriously) doing that, but if you wanted to, that's what it would mean. For the sieve, you'd have to figure a system where basically if the "bit" for 2 is set, then the "bits" for 4, 6, 8, etc, inherently can't be set. It's a more complicated thing than it sounds.

    Fourth, the problem so far is scaling. So far the best anyone ever produced is a 7 qubit mollecule that's just about useful enough to factor 15 into 3*5. But the problems grow through the roof as you want to make systems with more qubits, because it becomes insanely more difficult to set and read the status of all of them, and to design a mollecule which actually acts that way. The problem isn't just having the silicon or budget for an extra bit, like in normal computer, but pretty much involves inventing something completely new that can possibly work like that. It took years to even get the one that factors 15.

    Fifth, scaling in the other direction: you have a very short time after which the system goes decoherent. Basically you have to figure out an EM pulse that sets the spin probabilities just right, but the system starts pretty much immediately to goes out of whack on its own. Each mollecule in that solution starts doing its own thing and electrons are randomly flipping on their own. For a very short time it means you just lose a (very) little precision on the analog numbers represented, but any longer and it's as good as a random number. So basically if your whole algorith didn't end in that time, tough shit, you're out of luck. Don't think QC will solve too complex problems for you any time soon.

    Sixth, well, just because some mathematicians designed a language for something, doesn't mean by far that it actually exists. Mathematicians are very smart people, and unlike physics maths isn't tied as such to the natural world. You can build a maths theory around anything. A lot of them aren't even supposed to represent an actual body in the real world, but some very particular way to calculate something. E.g., as the most trivial example, there are n-dimensional geometries, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to actually build a 6-dimensional cube in the real world any time soon. Those geometries are supposed to model other kinds

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  58. A few words from a quantum cryptographer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While using decoy-state in quantum key distribution is a fairly new (from 2003 by Hwang) and useful idea, the fact that the Toshiba guys have implemented it is hardly a breakthrough. They are not even the first to do it. A group in Toronto did it more than a year ago (http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0601168).

    Second, the decoy state method doesn't improve the level of security (it can be secure without using decoy), but the distance and rate at which one can do secure key distribution improves greatly.

    Third, scientists have known since the early days of the laser that laser diodes sometimes emit a variable number of photons (for those of you who know statistics, the photon number in a pulse is random with a Poissonian distribution). This has been taking into account when making security proofs.

    Except from those points, the article is not too far from the truth. Using decoy states in quantum key distribution is a very nice idea. Using it requires one extra component, a variable attenuator, and a software update. And the typical secure distance is increased tenfold (from ~10 km to ~100 km) to almost the same distance one would have for a single photon source.

  59. products? by daenz · · Score: 1

    Network security systems that rely on the laws of quantum mechanics to create hack-proof networks are arriving in the form of practical products that are easily integrated into optical networks. The revamped system produces and distributes public keys in real-time. Use of the Nitrox encryption processors makes it possible to implement a virtual private network using standard IPsec protocols and an unhackable key distribution system. Secret keys for one-time functions let only the receiver decrypt the scrambled bits, but in practice even the most secret key can be found by a supercomputer using trial and error. In contrast, quantum cryptography is secure no matter how fast a hacker's computer is because the technique harnesses the laws of physics to guarantee security.

  60. Registration required by mgiuca · · Score: 1

    Scientists working in Cambridge have managed to make quantum encryption completely secure (registration required)
    Do you reckon I can break in without registering?

    Anyway the first thing you should never do in security is say "this is completely secure".

    And how did the summary make the link from "completely private transmission of data" to DRM? It just highlights the fatal problem with DRM - even if we had quantum security, there'd be no way to make bits not copyable.