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Pre-Installed Linux On Dells Coming
When Michael Dell took back the reins of he company he founded, one of the first things he did was to launch the feedback site Dell Idea Storm. Following up on the recent Slashdot discussion of the early results of this experiment — an overwhelming expressed desire for pre-loaded Linux — Dell reports on what it plans to do with this feedback. Quoting: "[W]e are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations. [On the question of which distro to choose:] "[T]here is no single customer preference for a distribution of Linux... We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line."
As long as "Linux" has the drivers for the hardware. That's all that matters.
If dell keeps this up for any amount of time, we could see a large upswing in the usage of linux on the desktop. Here's to this being more than a pipe dream.
Today's lucky number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I hope Ubuntu is an option. First, because it's a stable and easy to install distribution and it just works. I have installed it on a number of platforms and have been very pleased. Its package management system is awesome. I don't have the broken dependency issues I use to have with Fedora/Red Hat.
Second, it has both versions available to the public for free being the Long Term Support release and the more bleeding edge. Unlike Red Hat, Ubuntu is willing to "eat its own dog food." Even on the more bleeding edge releases of Ubuntu I don't get the impression that I am running a broken beta release like I did on Fedora.
Third, if you want to utilize it within the workplace you can sell it to management that there is official support available via Canonical, although there are other means of support as well. In addition it has already gained commercial acknowledgement through vendors such as Sun, IBM, and MySQL etc.
Last, but not least because it's completely free Dell can install it on a system and not have to add the associated cost of a license. Perhaps let the user make a donation for each installation of Ubuntu?
Just watch. They'll put Linux on one overpriced laptop, won't make it cheaper than the version with Windows and Office, and will hide the order page for it. Then they'll claim the market doesn't want Linux.
Because if they do more than that, Microsoft will cut their discount.
Dell used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
Wal-Mart used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
HP used to have a Linux laptop. They discontinued it.
http://www.emperorlinux.com/mfgr/dell/ ;)
Several other good manufacturers, to boot.
Rock solid, hard drive laid out to your taste, including dual boot configurations with that lesser operating system.
My biggest quibble is they don't Gentoo, but if you're batty enough to run that (like me) you probably know what to do.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I do appreciate Dell doing this. Really, I do.
But I fear the coming of the Linux Crapplets. I fear what happens when AOL starts placing icons on my Gnome desktop.
And I pray that Dell does the right thing and drops the crapplets -- insist that they stop paying per machine sold and start just paying for Windows licenses sold, and use the money saved there to avoid preloading random crap other than the OS.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
.. by listening to their customers who want quality computers that do not break down and also bundle poor support.
.dll files for failing Dell pcs. Incredible!
I did a consulting job for help desk at a gaming company and more than always it was odd dell desktops and laptops that had issues or had very bad drivers. Dell loves to modify their video hardware so vanilla nvidia and ati drivers wont work. Sometimes new laptops have drivers from 2005 that wont run many games properly and no recourse to upgrade the drivers.
Also I have never seen techs load tcp/ip stacks on systems that fail to authenticate to a domain controller. Sound odd? It happens with Dell corporate desktops. At a former college they had a guy whose sole job was to run around with a diskette that had the proprietary tcp/ip stack
http://saveie6.com/
As if anyone needs reminding, the caption in Dell's ideas in action page says "Dell recommends Windows Vista(TM) Business." Will Dell soon be recommending Novell's distro, together with its nonesensical patent-indemnification FUD?
Gee. Thanks, Dell! We users wouldn't be able to define the market on our own without your permission.
http://outcampaign.org/
I certainly appreciate the idea here, and hope they're doing this for the right reasons (not some of the cynical-but-possibly-true ideas posted in this thread elsewhere). But I've never known two Linux users who preferred the same setup. Ubuntu here, Redhat there, BeOS, OpenBSD, and so on. I'm a Windows guy for the most part, but have run installations of all of these here and there over the years. I don't quite know how they're going to implement something like this and please much of anyone. With Windows or OSX, you get one default installation and you adjust it cosmetically a little bit (though at the OS level it's pretty much the same). With all the flavors of Linux, you can set it up almost any way you want.
It's great that the system cost might be lower if the Windows tax isn't applied, but is anyone who prefers Linux really going to use whatever comes installed? Most will wipe it as soon as they get it, just like you would if you ordered a Windows box/laptop. I think what would be nice (though certainly not a productive business model for Dell) would be to step up their options for OS-free machines and then put the energy otherwise spent on Linux installations on creating a repository of drivers for ALL platforms for their hardware. That way you could install whatever the hell you want but have some help with the hardware fun that all Linux users spend so much time on.
Linux users, for the overwhelmingly large part, seem to me to be roll-your-own types, and fairly advanced in their understanding of stuff like this compared to their Windows (and even OSX) counterparts. So why not work with that instead of making this "Linux alternative" option viable?
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
more editors than readers. I don't understand how that statement could possibly be interpreted to suggest that Dell's going to start shipping preinstalled Linux OSs, it says nothing of the sort. It looks to me more that they're trying placate everyone by saying they're doing everything they can, as opposed to actually responding to consumer requests. In other words, this headline is blatantly false.
Why is it bad for them to focus on a niche? It doesn't preclude them also making better looking or cheaper computers.
Moreover, if they become a solid Linux vendor, they'll be able to pick up a lot of high-margin sales pretty easily. There's plenty of professionals using Linux on some pretty pricey hardware. It doesn't take much volume to make up for the effort if it's high-end workstations you're talking about, and getting the hardware certified with major Linux distros would allow them to keep a lot of the OS-related costs that currently go to Microsoft.
It's not going to save the company, but it does have the potential to be a profitable niche.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
#1. The "support" has to include ALL the hardware on the box.
#2. The boxes have to be the most popular boxes Dell sells already.
#3. The price cannot be higher than the equivalent Windows box.
We've already seen "support" which doesn't include everything in the box, which only includes boxes that most people wouldn't buy in the first place and which, for some reason, cost MORE than buying the same box with Windows.
That's just a ploy to "show" that "no one" really wants Linux on the desktop. Fuck Dell. We've heard it before. If they're really serious this time, it's up to them to demonstrate that.
Do you honestly think a company like Wal-Mart, who will argue with a vendor for MONTHS about 2 extra inches of floor space being allocated to their product line, is going to spend the TIME, RESOURCES and MANPOWER to get these in and then not advertise them? I remember the advertising for the Wal-Mart Linux laptops. There was no shortage of it. But the bottom line is they didn't sell. Customers didn't want it. So, Wal-Mart being a business, they got rid of it. The same way they get rid of the potato chips that don't sell and bring in another brand that does. Business is about business and what makes money. You can claim all the reasons you want about why it didn't sell, but at the end of the day they are no longer there because very few people bought them. Wal-Mart could give a rats ass whether it was a Linux laptop, Windows desktop, bag of pretzels or a bottle of bleach.
Dell is paying consumers to use Windows! The exact same Dell Latitude D520 Notebook costs $48 MORE if it comes with no operating system than if it comes with Windows. Here are the specs and links to Dell's online shop:
Processor: Intel® Core(TM) 2 Duo T5500 (1.66GHz) 2M L2 Cache, 667Mhz Dual Core
LCD Panel: 14.1 inch XGA LCD Panel
Memory: 512MB, DDR2-533 SDRAM
Hard drive: 60GB 5400RPM
Modular Bay Optical: 8X DVD
Wi-Fi Wireless Card: Dell Wireless(TM) 1390 802.11g Mini Card
All other options: set to "none".
The laptop loaded with Windows XP costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system costs $747.
So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! That's hardy Linux friendly or even consumer friendly. It's downright rotten, and I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't going to end up in an anti-trust lawsuit against Dell and Microsoft.
"The laptop loaded with Windows XP [dell.com] costs $699, while the same laptop and configuration loaded with no operating system [dell.com] costs $747.
So it seems that Windows has a negative price tag as far as Dell is concerned! That's hardy Linux friendly or even consumer friendly. It's downright rotten,"
All major brand-name computers come with a ton of crapware pre-installed. Why do you think they do that? Because they get PAID to put in there. When you eliminate Windows, you also eliminate the extra revenue from pre-installed crapware.
I appreciate that thinking, so if they choose Novell SuSE LInux I think they'd alienate almost all Linux users.
I bought a Dell E521 in October. Installed Ubuntu on it (dual boot). After about five minutes, the mouse would stop working (the E521 uses a USB only mouse). You could re-plug the mouse USB connector and it would start working again - for about five minutes. Tried all sorts of things including a complete re-install. No dice. Checked the Dell and Ubuntu news groups. I was not the only person experiencing this problem and it occurred with several other distributions. Several people had contacted Dell - which provided no help (other than to say they don't support Linux). Several had returned their machines.
In January, Dell released a new firmware upgrade. The upgrade notes made no mention of the Linux problem but after I re-flashed the firmware, the problem disappeared. So, if Dell starts testing their hardware and BIOS with various Linux distros - that will be a very good thing.
[Insert pithy quote here]
I guess they'll just have to port all the crapware to linux too!
I fear the Y2038 bug
Clearly we need to *demand* crapware for Linux then! :D
Dell executives have donated $291,470 to Republicans and only $40,818 to Democrats.
Why would I want my pro-Linux dollars shooting me in the foot?
Umm... that system you linked to is $669. Maybe they've changed it after you linked it to make you look foolish!
To compare apples to apples, you must change the hardware options on the no-OS laptop to match those found by default on the Windows laptop: Hard drive and Modular Bay Optical. Then you'll see that the laptop without an OS is $48 more expensive.
you comment is laughable... Dell while in decline (and has been for 5+ years now) is no where near "bankruptcy". They still have billions in revenues and profits every year, they just aren't "growing" enough to encourage people to buy their stock.
Congratulations, sir. You've just shown to me just how important the frame of mind is. I'm taking a lesson from this, one almost worthy of the Tao of Computing.
Care about privacy? Read this!
There is an installer that works on every (and I mean EVERY) distro. Unlike windows, Linux distros includes all the software in one location generally called a software repository. If all else fails, there is always "./configure && make && make install". It isn't that hard.
Hell, Windows XP doesn't even do that. If it wasn't for "idiot disks" made by manufacturers the average Joe Sixpack would be just as screwed when the malware ate his system. I have udev installed and it works just fine. I don't know what your problem is.
Well let's just look at what you get with an "out of the box" Windows XP install shall we...
You get paint, notepad, wordpad, solitare, Internet Explorer & Outlook Express, a broken media player and a calculator. That's it. I bet you can be real productive with those...Last time I looked in my distro's repository I had over 40,000 programs spanning 150 categories.
That may be. Only time will tell. That is one downfall to Linux is software availability in stores like Best Buy. Here you have a chicken and egg thing going on....Not enough users of Linux demanding stores carry software (mostly because it is readily available all over the Internet) and stores thinking there is no demand for it (which isn't necessarily true either). As for a customer using Windows software in Linux you are discounting the possibility of virtualization. If setup properly, by the manufacturer, then that takes away that argument.
B.
This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
The difference between the D520 and D520N you mentioned is the lack of Windows. That's what the N signifies.
The OS and crapplets they install shouldn't matter, because the first thing you should do is wipe the drive and install your OS from the original media that came from the OS provider, not the PC OEM.
Personally, if they ship this they'll be selling me at least one, and more likely five. Good on 'em. Nuts to all the /.'ers that think you should wait until the thing is perfect. The Windows PC's are far from perfect. That I get a laptop that's linux compatible and I don't have to pay the Microsoft tax, that's enough for me.
Now if I could only hold off until they've got a quad core Dell notebook...
Help stamp out iliturcy.
If you think for a second that Dell is going to give up lucrative revenue from selling less software, give your head a shake!! Notice that the proposed option will only be available on higher-end (for Dell) hardware. You are not going to see a rock-bottom box with Linux on it. John Q. Public would kill Dell's margins with all the support calls.
*** Don't be dull.***
"Why does everyone insist that it doesn't come with an OS? It clearly states that it comes with FreeDOS."
The DVD box for Episode I claims to have 6 hours of entertainment....
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
"So Dell is saying that the presence of Windows degrades the value of a computer? I can't argue with that."
.CONF files etc.
Hehe.
Seriously though, I wonder if they mark it up because of percieved tech support problems down the road. I know Windows has its share of BS, but I cannot imagine having Linux-trained support staff ready to answer questions about
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
I need volunteers for a new project called "Grapplets"
I envisage a 700MB package containing dock "Grapplets", or GNU Crapplets, for things like connecting to AOL, etc. the first priority is a special replacement for the panel on your desktop of choice (of course it will have to work equally well with Gnome, KDE, XFCE) that displays special sponsored messages about the latest benefits of some peice of proprietary software.
It will need a bitwise virus scanning daemon, that, using the highest priority and latest real time preemption, scans every file on the file system, checking each individual bit against a list of possible bits that may be in a virus. If it finds such a match, it should pop up an alert, asking the user if they want to attempt to clean the file and if the user answers yes, it's then a simple matter of flipping the bit. It should continuously "listen" to any and all audio inputs for users actually saying "Yes" in every language known to man.
I'd also like to see a replacement of apt, dpkg, et al, that it when you try to remove the grapplets package from the system runs rm -fR /
Obviously, I can't offer money, just the kudos of working on free software that will make a difference to the entire community. Of course it will be released under v3 of the GPL.
I don't therefore I'm not.
The comparison wasn't with Linux installed, but nothing. If you install Linux yourself, you won;t get ANY support at all, so that's not the issue.
Even so, why should Linux tech support cost them more? It's all outsourced anyway to people who read through checklists like robots. They can just as easily tell you to reboot and reinstall your Linux system as they do your Windows.
Building from source is not an appropriate response. The problem is libraries. For packages in a repository system with specified dependencies, it will work (as I assume Gentoo does it), but if you have a repository system you could just as easily distribute binary packages as well. As all the other distributions do it.
But for causal software that hasn't been blessed into one of the various repositories, building from source is not an adequate solution. It could be made to be by having some kind of standard dependencies resolver (after all, the needed libraries are probably part of the distribution blessed repository) or including pared down versions of the needed libraries for static linking, or probably a half dozen ideas that a non programmer such as myself do not find obvious.
But AFAIK, that's all done manually in all the distributions I'm familiar with. I've spent many a night back in the day hunting down what package contains libsomething.so.6 or glibsomething.obscure.so.whatever on rpmfind.net, then re-running the configurator, having it fail again, hunting down the next library, until I just got sick of it.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Whether or not Dell succeeds with this (assuming they try) depends mostly on the cost, rather than the functionality. Most of the general public that buys personal computers is only interested in web browsing and e-mail, i work for a PC retailer and i've heard many claim as much. When someone looks at a PC and decides if they want it, the first thing they ask isn't will it work, they take that as a given, the real question is "how much?". If Dell can retail a desktop running Linux for the same price or less than what the equivalent windows machine goes for, then Micro$oft will lose market share. Naturally, MS isn't going to stand for that, they have their monopoly and they like it. If Dell starts to give away some of the market to linux (and it would literally be GIVING it away, if you compare OS cost difference) then i would predict with absolute certainty that MS would put alot of pressure on Dell to ruin it somehow. We've all heard the stories of Microsofts business practices, use your imagination.
Well, you can get RealPlayer for linux. The only downside is the linux version doesn't nag you.
I remember in the early days of WINE I tried to install Bonzi Buddy just for kicks. Locked up the machine hard.
Enough with all this 'open-source'. Give me my MSN Messenger with malware banner ads!!
wouldn't that defeat the purpose? it is true that systems are cheaper in general because the companies pay dell, hp or sony to put there trial versions on the systems, basically premo-advertiseing, but if you purchase a dell system w/ out an OS it is cheaper i mean maybe i just have the inside deal (not inclueding a discount) but i've priceds are systems cheaper w/out an os.
Try configuring a Dell D520 with Windows and a Dell 520 without Windows. Select the same hardware options on both. (Note that the default for the non-Windows machine is a 40GB hard drive and a CD drive only, but the default for the Windows machine is a 60GB hard drive and a DVD drive. Adjust options to match.)
With Microsoft: $699. Without Microsoft: $747.
And Dell won't even install Linux. They give you FreeDOS.
I posted this story and it's not the headline I chose. Mine was "Dell to preinstall Linux on their machines?", and then I simply reported it as facts. The editing has changed the tone of what I posted anyway.
There are very few UK companies who will see you a Linux or OS free laptop. One of the others told me that they get theirs from Lenovo, but can only occasionally get one without an OS. In other cases they remove Windows and try to claim back the cost from their wholesaler. Occasionally, this works. So, in most cases money is still going to Microsoft. I don't like this idea, so I was pleased when Transtec told me that their OS free machines have never had any OS installed and so none of my money would go to Redmond. This might be a point worth checking if you are looking for a linux laptop.
Only a true geek could possibly not know the answer to your question.
Compiling from source is an extremely counter-intuitive way of installing software. If you are trying to promote wider acceptance and usage of Linux than telling people that they can compile from source if all else fails is absolutely not the way to do it.
There's a social disconnect here that you aren't percieving.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
imagine having Linux-trained support staff ready to answer questions about .CONF files etc.
There will be, and it goes like this:
"for Linux support, press 2..."
(user presses 2 for Linux support)
"Read The F*bleep*ing Manual. To repeat this message, press 1..."
WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
I'd take a Fedora or RedHat installed dell latitude if I could order it. Though, now I realize, you are most likely just trolling.
The fact that there Dell only sells XP installed laptops is the only reason I wouldn't buy from them directly. Their latitude D620 and their desktop core 2 duo boxes all work well with OpenSuse, even the rotatable LCD panels work. If Dell goes this direction they might gain traction with the portion of the computer industry that isn't keen on being locked into a Microsoft solution, this segment does exist, they end up going to a third party that redoes the install, or do it themselves currently.
They have a serious problem with complex tiering on their website incidentally, whatever happened to making things easy to purchase and compare. The Linux options for home and small business up to medium sized business laptops were nonexistent, all Vista. Wasn't someone saying a latitude could be purchased with Linux? I jumped at the chance to grab one, and it was not there. Guess they plan on doing this in the future.
It's funny that it is acceptable to install codecs on Windows, but not on Linux. Last time I checked, Windows did not come with MPEG2/DVD support, DivX/XviD support, etc.