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Is Vista a Trap?
logube writes "BBC has up an article about the trap of installing Vista in your existing desktop. Written by Tim Weber, a self-confessed 'sucker for technology,' this article is a good introduction to the pain and extra money required to get going with the newest version of Windows. See how you can spend an extra 130 british pounds, and still have no working webcam! Says Weber, 'It took me one day to get online. The detail is tedious and highly technical: reinstalling drivers and router firmware didn't work, but after many trial and error tweaks to Vista's TCP/IP settings, I had internet access. Once online, Creative's website told me that my sound card was a write-off. No Vista support would be forthcoming.'"
as this happened with xp-64, didn't it?
also, by that logic, linux is a trap
Focus your fire on that unsupported hardware!
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
I read the article earlier today, and while I thought it was very well written, I couldn't help but feel disappointed that the single most loathable feature of Vista, wasn't even mentioned, not even in a perfunctory way.
I know I am a minority, but for me Fair Use is a big issue. Sadly, Vista has completely opened the doors to DRM on the desktop. Well, not on mine.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Why do I get the feeling this was posted solely to let people use "itsatrap" as a tag?
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Directx 10. They could have put out an XP version. (of course that doesnt sell CDs) You will need DX10 for upcoming games. Security updates (there still must be holes). Besides that I say wait as long as you can.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
Burn the MSDN image, grab RAID drivers for my onboard RAID, put the drivers on my USB key, then boot the Vista install disk. Go through the usual setup with the drivers. Reboot. All hardware is auto-detected and drivers installed except for my Creative Audigy 2 sound card. Pull the drivers from their site and install. Update nVidia drivers while I'm at it. Works great, no problems.
Nothing that you probably need. Its slightly better than XP. Not 5-years-of-development better, but slightly. For all the flack, FUD, and outright lies that Slashdotters fling about UAC, it actually is a good idea, and a step in the right direction for Windows.
Every time there is news like this the fanboys shout 'you shoulda known' and
'get new hardware'. I have a better idea. Let's call Vista not an upgrade but a wholesale replacement of your computer and many of your applications. Most of your data will work in the new system but that's about it.
No - Vista is barely less of an upgrade than switching from XP to a Mac.
Vista won't recognise my C64 tape drive either! Those MS bastards! It's a conspiracy, I tell you!
A list of new features: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windo ws_Vista
win98 -> 2000, lots of problems with lack of drivers for older hardware
2000 -> XP still problems with lack of drivers for older hardware (although maybe not as many)
XP -> Vista well, what do you think?
-- the cake is a lie
To a degree, the points made in TFA are to be expected. Heck, even a bunch of MS's own software is incompatible with Vista (big boys like .NET Framework 2.0 and SQL Server 2005, last I checked). There have been alot of changes, and it seems unrealistic to expect companies to roll out new drivers that are 100% right off the bat.
That being said, there seems to have been a huge jump in paradigm from XP to Vista. Even though I know I'll be modded down for this, I like XP. I've installed the operating system with faulty RAM, and it STILL worked great after I replaced the chips. Its driver support is just awe inspiring, and about the only driver I have to manually set up on a fresh install is my sound and video card, and for the most part it was like this at release.
Vista? You need up to date hardware and specific drivers. Not just 'decent' or 'good' hardware, but edging on unnecessary from the point of view of what I would expect my family to spend on a PC. A day just to get onto the internet? How many technical and monetary hoops are we expected to jump through? I've experienced similar problems with learning Linux and finding drivers, but in that case there were forums and community solutions. Vista leaves the users at the mercy of third party companies.
I don't see myself going to Vista, in all honesty. Two steps forward, three steps back.
Interesting! Does this mean that we might start seeing Windows customers agitating for open hardware specs so that interested parties can pick up the ball dropped by the vendor and write their own drivers?
...Just like the Linux guys have been doing for the last <*cough*> years?
Oh, wait. You have to be "certified" by Microsoft to write a usable Vista driver. Never mind...
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
DRTFA, because it's slashdotted, but how good can the reviewer be? Why on earth would Vista require new router firmware. The router doesn't care what it's connected to. It doesn't touch the OS of the computers connected to it. If you're installing a new OS, and as part of the process you THINK you need to update your router firmware, you've got bigger problems than a crappy OS--you're an idiot!
Okay, it's bad for the poor people who have to buy new hardware because they can't get vista drivers for their existing stuff.
But it means a good load of ebay bargains for those of us running open source operating systems with support for just about everything built in.
I haven't actually noticed the bargains happening much yet, but they will come. Just like last time shortly after Windows XP came out. Second hand USB stuff was going for next to nothing on ebay.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
I don't agree with "slightly better than XP" it seems to be a bloated resource hog that does nothing new (UAC? poorly implemented) the fancy GUI could be had on XP and the DX10 only on Vista is scam if I ever saw one.
No it's bad news and should be avoided; only I know the tech junkies out there are going to fall for it.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Have you actually used Vista? Your post history seems to suggest that you haven't.
Microsoft isn't completely blameless here. If Microsoft had adopted the same strategy for drivers as the OpenBSD project has (accepting either fully open drivers or no drivers), then somebody (even Microsoft) could make the drivers work on Vista.
This is yet another why open drivers built from publicly-available hardware documentation are better than binary-blob drivers.
http://outcampaign.org/
Considering that Microsoft says a 1 GHz PC with 512 MB RAM will run Vista, he probably expected a working system.
I think Vista uses more RAM to display a window than my OS/2 Warp system used to run half a dozen apps (I had 8 MB of RAM on an AMD 486/40).
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Notice I said "need", all of the things listed there on wiki can be had on XP via 3rd party tweaks.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I can't even do an "oblig"!!! The article title already did :(
Thanks to Windows Vista, I lost my job, my wife divorced me, my dog was brutally raped and murdered, I've been diagnosed with brain cancer, and I no longer find myself interested in sexual activity. I wish I had read the warnings on Slashdot prior to trying Vista. Thank you Slashdot for spreading the truth about the horrible contagion known as Windows Vista.
Umm, at least a baseline support for that hardware? For a company so prided on backwards compatibility, Microsoft sure has given the finger hardcore to a lot of people when it comes to Vista.
For comparison: I have an Apple iMac G3 400MHz with 768MB RAM and a 40GB disk happily running OS X 10.4. This machine also has a (nonupgradeable) 8MB ATI video card. Note that this computer, at this moment, is almost 8 years old, and runs Tiger like a champ. Sure, I don't get all the cool effects, but the key is I didn't have to do a damn thing to make it work, it just did, and it doesn't even attempt the effects it can't handle. I can browse the internet, use iTunes, type in Word, Excel, Pages or Keynote, check my email, and even watch DVD's. And you know what? It runs 10.4 FASTER than it runs 10.3. Given, it's still a bit slower than OS 9, but given the added capabilities of it and it still being useable in OS X, that's a pretty damn good trade-off.
I hate sigs...
Linux as a whole might take some blame if an older version worked with the hardware (say in kernel 2.4) , but a newer version (say kernel 2.6) didn't. This does happen on occasion, but it is generally fixed-up by either an OSS developer that wants to use the hardware, or the vendor (such as the Nvidia binaries).
Remember, Vista is purported to be somewhat of an upgrade/improvement over XP. That means that people expect it to do what XP does, and more. It's still MS windows, just a newer, shinier, bulkier ones.
So if your winmodem worked in 2.4.x and not in 2.6.x, you might have a legitimate gripe at linux. Generally such things come out in the next-version bugfixes, but issues do happen where a particular newer version does not like certain hardware, or the source-code for modules doesn't compile and no newer-version source is available. If there never was support for your winmodem in the first place (note, WINmodem is a good giveway that it's not non-windows friendly), then the blame rests somewhat on the manufacturer for not providing a driver, or at least specs for such. In the case of winmodems, the software pretty much is most of the product, so the manufacturers guard it fairly closely.
I'm no longer running it because it wasn't very stable (read: Vista and things like Media Center were not stable from a clean install, not the third party software drivers were unstable), but it's pretty good for games, at least it seems like it will be when driver support is there.
For example, I installed the Beta Nvidia drivers, which while giving me over all worse performance because of a lack of SLI support, did actually give a demonstrable and perceptible performance boost (as promised), even though the drivers were not file.
DirectX 10 is the thing that's likely to get me to upgrade again to it, hopefully by the time it's 'mainstream' a service pack or two will be out.
Wow, completely missed the section of the article where he clearly says he *ran* said Upgrade adviser (which is what led to a Graphics card update among a few other things) but that he later still had problems with unsupported/non-functional hardware the adviser didn't give a peep about, huh? Give you a hint... second part of the article after "A blunt message"... starts with "But this was probably not enough, so I downloaded Microsoft's Vista Upgrade Advisor."
Sheesh.
Yeah seriously. I don't think the people that would buy Vista for DX10 are going to sit around for 5 years while Wine works on DX10. Wine is great and all, but that's really just not going to cut it. Like it or not, you are going to need Vista for DirectX10...there's no doubt about that.
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
Since I know we have more of the CS, IT crowd than gamers here...
Vista's problems have been mentioned, directly, But another massive issue is the way that Microsoft is beginning to work with game developers. First, it's the 'Games for Windows' tag, and treating the PC like a console in terms of branding. Second, the games for vista is going to slowly force pretty much every gamer on the planet to switch to vista, or try to. Granted, gamers tend to have the rigs that can handle it, at the bleeding edge... But, then there are many casual gamers who buy into the back end of the technology curve. I and many others have absolutely no desire to use vista, but in a year or so the number of playable games will begin to dwindle as titles come out for vista only.
It's bad enough that my friend is punished for running windows 2000 on her gaming rig because many games intended for XP or Vista won't run on the system.
The forced obsolescence thing is la real nightmare in that respect, and it's stupid that many bleeding edge games will be 'Vista/XBOX360 exclusive' titles, and that much of their user base, the reluctant windows users called Gamers, are being hooked into the new software.
Yes unfortunately I tend to forget how different /. is when it comes to vague posts or ranting.
I have used Vista, I do not like it, it's intrusive and annoying to me (yes I do want to run that exe), I personally don't care about eye candy, I am into performance which vista does not have unless you are running a state of the art proc, 4 gig's of RAM and a high end graphics card (which none have decent drivers as of yet)
I'm not going to get into the DRM portion of Vista.
You're a sucker to buy it and a fool to run it.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I've been running Vista at work for a few months now, since Beta 2, doing compatibility testing. I have thus far not managed to run in to its DRM. This is because I don't have any DRM'd media. It turns out there are not evil DRM gremlins hiding on my system, trying to steal my media. All the video I shoot and edit works fine, my OGG/FLAC collection works fine, etc. Yes, if I were to get an HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive and try to play movies I'm sure I'd have to contend with the DRM. Well, I'm not so there's not really a concern there.
Basically to me Vista's DRM doesn't add any value, but it doesn't interfere with my work in any way. Thus I really just don't care. I don't see any way it it hurts my fair use. Please remember that the HD formats are encrypted anyhow, it's not like Vista does anything with that, and the decryption tools that have been released run fine on Vista. Maybe I'll encounter a problem with it at some point (that's why I'm testing it, to see what the problems with supporting it will be) but not yet.
It seems to me that "DRM" has become a poorly defined scare word for many people. They throw it around without knowing what it really means, just that it is bad and that you should hate it. I agree that DRM is not a useful technology, but let's be straight about when it does and doesn't matter. Vista does not have DRM gremlins that try to eat your media. Your unDRM'd media does not stop working, the tools for creating it do not stop working. No, video output is not degraded, I get full resolution in everything I do (since all the media isn't DRM'd) despite lacking an HDCP monitor and video card.
If it doesn't affect you, not likely to make it in to a "thing that didn't work for me" article, is it?
... doesn't have a single decent image-browser ...
... dc++ client ...
... office suite ...
... Not to mention decent looking fonts ...
Gwenview, Picasa...
Is in production. Check the CVS for latest builds.
I really don't understand why you included this. OpenOffice.org, KOffice, AbiWord; all more than comparable to MS Word.
In Debian based distros, sudo apt-get install msttcorefonts. Rather simple. Other distros have packages of their own.
In short, I'm under the impression that you haven't really tried to use a modern Linux distro for more than the five minutes it took you to stereotype it, say, "This sucks because it's not what I'm used to!", and go back to Windows.
"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."
So, what you're saying it's kind of like installing an oddball wi-fi card on Linux. Except without the option of reading hundreds of pages of obscure documentation until you've transformed yourself into a mutant linux hotplugging guru.
In a nutshell, the differnce between getting things working in Linux and Windows seems to be this. Linux is like being parachuted into the wilderness with a hammer, forge, and load of pig iron. Windows is like being parachuted into the wilderness with an impressive looking knife that snaps in two if you don't use it very, very carefully.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
He did check hardware compability. Using the Microsoft-provided tool to do so.
So stop lying just so you can insult people. Perhaps slashdot needs a "-10 Blatent Liar" mod option.
So is this about right for typical end users such as myself?
- wait at least one year after a new release of operating system
- if you can't do it yourself, pay someone else to evaluate your existing pc to see if an upgrade is possible and if it is possible, to make sure you get exactly what you need
- make sure the person you pay for evaluation has no stake in selling you a new pc
- if an upgrade is not possible, secure your old system as much as humanly possible and ride it until using the old system is no longer possible, plausible or just plain insane (like one of my friends using Windows 95 until last week and my cousin switched her over to Ubuntu)
- when all else dies by a new pc
- find something useful to do with your old pc (donate it, etc.)
IT'S A TRAP
From the article:Uhm, no it isn't, not really. As the author later discovers (but still doesn't realize), getting hardware to work often involves hardware, drivers and OS (and sometimes other software). While we all wish it were that easy, us "expensive PC helpers" have the skills to deal with those cases when it isn't.
For example:Wizards? This suggests that the author does not know how to get to the properties of whatever network protocol (I'm assuming TCP/IP) he's using and configure them directly.You can find out by following the instructions at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/298837.
I'm not defending Vista, but I also bristle when people devalue and disrespect people in IT/IS. We make things look easy because we're good at what we do.
I'm not sure what lies you've been reading about UAC, but it conditions users to always say "Yes" to security prompts. This is a very terrible idea and in this situation the criticism is well deserved.
"You are about to open the Control Panel -- allow or deny?"
"You are about to open the Program Files folder -- allow or deny?"
"You are about to modify user preferences -- allow or deny?
"You are about to open attachment pzxyTrojan.exe -- allow or deny?"
Allow.. allow.. allow.. allow.. allow..
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
How would they enforce it? If a company just puts out a binary driver, what's to stop the user from installing it? Can YOU think of a way?
Sorry, but there is just NO way Microsoft could ever enforce that policy. Stop blaming Microsoft for corporations wanting to keep their drivers secret so that their competitors don't use them to improve their OWN drivers.
My sig can beat up your sig.
People who run linux. If it ran on the last version, it is almost certain to run on the next. Unless it's 15 year old hardware. No, wait, most of that works too.
1. Wait for SP1 ...
2. Wait for SP2
N. Wait for SPN
N+1. New version of Windows, GOTO 1
Wonder if that GOTO will give any of the old timers nostalgia attacks
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
You are so right. And I had a Speak and Spell that included a voice synthesizer, and that ran off 2 C cell batteries! Vista sure does suck! Microsoft is stupid!
Why do I have the feeling that this whole story was written so that for once the "itsatrap" tag guy could be relevant?
You drank my drink, you drunk!
Honestly, who does an OS upgrade and not check for hardware compatibility?
If you RTFA, you'll see that he a) used a Microsoft app that checks your system for Vista compatibility before installing; b) replaced his incompatible hardware before the install with hardware stated to work with Vista by the manufacturer.
Short of having someone lend him the hardware to try it out with Vista, I don't really see what else he could have done to avoid problems...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
You're out of touch. Most Linux distros still manage this quite easily, especially the ones that aspire to a higher level of quality. Debian and Ubuntu can, to name two.
I've bought Mac hardware. I dual boot Linux and XP on PC hardware. Kindly, I'll not get over Microsoft's habit of writing terrible software for the benefit of ending a debate that you began. Vista is software designed to sell PC's. It was not designed with the consumer's needs in mind, and there's no reason it needed to be. It's because of this attitude that computers somehow lose the ability to function properly simply because you need it to do new things.
Computers are not old dogs. General purpose machines were designed in the hopes that they could learn new tricks. Your attitude perpetuates the belief that new functionality requires new hardware, which is exactly what will continue to drive down the quality of software in this world.
Why is it bad to demand more? We're the consumers.
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
Pot. Kettle. Black. Microsoft isn't going to force vendors to open source their drivers when they so closely guard their own code. What's good for the gander is good for the goose and all that.
You're point is well taken however. I don't see why hardware vendors don't release their source code. They can patent the hardware if it truly contains innovations and with software patents they could patent all or part of the driver if it's anything special and release the code under whatever license they deem appropriate.
If I was evaluating two pieces of expensive hardware that performed equally well I'd take the piece with open source drivers over the piece that didn't have open source drivers even if it cost more just for insurance on the investment. You'd think that having open source drivers would be a point that high end hardware manufacturers, especially new ones, could compete on.
I didn't buy it. I get it via my MSDN subscription (through work). As far as being a fool for running, well lets just say my experience is nothing like yours. I actually like Vista. Its fast and responsive. I go days without seeing a UAC box, but its nice to know my account has user level priveledges instead of admin.
It doesn't matter whose fault it is, Linux^H^H^H^H^HVista or the hardware vendor, the fact of the matter is that people expect their computers to "Just Work"(tm). All my grandma is going to know is that under Linux^H^H^H^H^HVista, her sound card doesn't work, but under Windows XP it did. Linux^H^H^H^H^HVista needs to support this hardware out of the box, and until it does, Linux^H^H^H^H^HVista will never be ready for the desktop.
Seriously, you Linux^H^H^H^H^HVista fanboys need to stop living in denial and admit that Linux^H^H^H^H^HVista has some serious problems that make it unusable for most people.
http://www.mhall119.com
Not supporting DX9 makes no business sense. DX10-only games will be games by Microsoft, or games for which Microsoft paid the developer their expected DX9 profits to be DX10-only.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I was reading an article recently where people were looking for ways to explain what the problems are with digital rights management technology to non technically minded people.
Examples given tended to be along the lines of "I can't watch foreign released films, they were never released locally so I have no legal option, and I need this for my book report." and "You shouldn't have to pay for that song again, you already paid for it."
These are, quite frankly, not the most pressing examples I could think of.
Here's some examples you can show your mom and dad:
1) Broadcast news will be all be digitally signed by the big media companies.
The same technology used to cause your saved version of American Idol to self-destruct can be used after the fact to erase news right off your home electronics. It will also prevent it from being transferred to unprotected permanent media, or played back from any backup.
2) Medical software and data will all be digitally signed by the rights owners.
The same technology used to stop software piracy could be used after the fact to switch off hospitals and clinics that don't pay their bills. There is massive financial incentive to design this to happen automatically. Anyone who doubts the realism of this scenario need only look as far as the behavior of the existing drug companies.
3) Company files will all be digitally signed.
If you are being screwed over by your employer or any company you have business dealings with, they will be able to ensure that you don't make anyone else aware of it.
Anyone who thinks this technology is about protecting Britney Spears from Bluebeard the Pirate is missing the point. This is about totalitarianism.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
So whose fault is it when Linux doesn't support your hardware?
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
If I need a calender on XP (when I was using it) I would goto the adjust date/time. Thats a calander to the second.
Now if you wanted scheduling I just used Google calander for that, its much nicer being able to check whats going on or add things from where ever I am.
09:F9:11:02 - 9D:74:E3:5B - D8:41:56:C5 - 63:56:88:C0
It's about time to give up on PC gaming, especially with the beauty, convenience and comfort of today's powerful consoles (both of them). Nothing compares to 5.1 Dolby TrueHD sound blasting from a nice surround system while you're seated on a comfortable couch in front of your high-def TV of choice. You get your shooters, online games, web surfing, etc.
With Vista, MS gives us another reason to turn towards consoles as a smarter choice. It's currently an unnecessary upgrade that wraps your media in shackles with DRM and pesters you every 5 minutes to second guess whatever you want to do with it. Oh and it's expensive and won't look pretty unless you spend some $$$ on your computer.
The days of Wintendo are numbered and I think Vista is a good reason to bring the curtain down.
Everybody cheer, it's Pick Apart the Zealot time!
Everyone sitting comfortably?
The BBC author concludes the same thing, and that's what sucks. He says to wait and get Vista pre-installed. Doing that won't fix his webcam or his pocket PC.
No, but you missed the point. He says Vista isn't worth it for him right now, but will be if he upgrades. Revel in the small victory that may offer you, but don't misinterpret it. Regardless, support will come and soon, if he's willing to wait and he chose a good manufacturer.
Those and his old computer, which is twice as nice as anything I have, will become more toxic waste.
Because now that he's not using Vista his computer automatically melts down?
What has he gotten that he did not have? Nothing but a prettier interface and a false promise of better security. Upgrading non free software is like that, difficult, costly and unnecessary.
Seeing as you've never bothered to check, you wouldn't have a clue what Vista has that's new anyway, and I'm not here to educate you. Needless to say, tell the people upgrading Ubuntu on this thread that repeatedly lose time and effort to fixing the problems it causes on each update how 'difficult' and 'costly' upgrading is. Time is money, and no update to XP ever broke my video card.
Replacing everything only marginally decreases your difficulty because you then have to purchase, install and relearn the new interfaces for all the programs that actually do your work and play.
We had this conversation before and you failed to provide a good answer - have any of the window managers for Linux remained identical for the last 12 years? How about the last 10? The last 7? Didn't think so.
When you are through with that, you can begin the long and non transferable process of making your desktop comfortable and retrieving the old data that your masters allow you to keep.
Care to provide a source that says data automagically disappears when you upgrade if MS decides you can't use it? I'll finish that for you: you can't, because it doesn't. More bullshit (shock and disgust everyone).
The fanboy part of this equation is thinking you need non free software to begin with. The author's conclusion is basically, M$ at any cost.
No, it's not. The authors conclusion apparently sailed over your head as easily as all the other reasons to use Windows over Linux do. Nobody 'needs' non-free software in the same nobody 'needs' free software. Shockingly, it's a matter of preference.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
Is it really a smart move for game makers to require Vista though? It seems like a lot of people aren't switching, not just ./ers, but in general. Won't it be smarter to keep going with DX9 and XP for quite some time, until you can be sure that the general audience of gamers has moved on?
Just a thought.
OMG why do you hate America?
And the circle of life continues to spin, occasionally wobbling on its axis thanks to the weighty presence of dumb.
"...but its nice to know my account has user level priveledges[sic] instead of admin..."
Awesome, welcome to 1975! You must be a really proud owner of a modern, prior art ripping operating system.
That would be terrible, different companies effectively bouncing ideas off each other instead of wasting a huge amount of time and money desperately trying to keep their stuff secret. I mean, it could lead to customers getting the best possible drivers.
If you can read this you've gone too far.
Just junk food for thought...
Remember, Microsoft said exactly the same thing about XP and 2000 that they do about Vista, and that they have about every single version of Windows except pehaps 1.0: "Faster, more secure, more personalized, better than ever before!"
And we say exactly the same thing we've always said: "Bloated, incompatible, too invasive, look at that WGA!" XP has the same privacy issues, 2000 had worse (if possible) compatibility issues.
But around SP1 or SP2, XP became livable, arguably better than 2000. And probably around SP1, 2000 became stable enough, and was obviously a HUGE upgrade compared to 98 -- so huge that if they hadn't done it when they did, Linux probably would've taken over.
So, we're going to have the same thing happen here. I predict that in roughly 2 years, around SP1 or SP2, Vista will actually be better than XP. But it isn't yet -- too much stuff isn't compatible, and the "beta" was a laugh; if you buy it now, you are their gamma testers.
Smart people stick with XP, and let the rest of the world test and debug Vista for us.
Me? I'll keep dual-booting XP and Linux (Ubuntu here, Gentoo at home).
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
About being certified by MS...I'm not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is wrong.
Want to develop drivers for Vista, Server 2003, XP, W2k, and possibly older MS platforms? Hit the download button from here http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/ddk/default .mspx/.
Want a kernel debugger and access to the O/S symbol files? Try here http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/debugging/d efault.mspx.
Need some know-how on passing the Windows logo requirements? Try here http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/whql/WHQLdwn.mspx
How about 64-bit Vista drivers? Well, those have to be digitally signed. Try here for more info http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/64bi t/kmsigning.mspx
Total cost to you: Zero. Well, that certificate for signing the 64-bit drivers costs money, but that's not going to MS.
I understand the general /. attitude towards most things MS, but at least try to get the facts straight before you spread FUD around.
Stay hopeful that the Crystalline Amoeba poops your car out soon
I just got this alert/email from my ISP - ATT&T...
...
"AT&T and Yahoo! have been working closely with Microsoft to update our familiar software applications to support the Vista operating system, including AT&T Yahoo! Instant Messenger, AT&T Yahoo! Photos, the AT&T Yahoo! Portal, and our Web-based e-mail service.
In this spirit, our teams will continue to work to deliver compatibility with other familiar applications which will be temporarily impacted for customers who upgrade to Vista, such as the AT&T Yahoo! Tool Bar, AT&T Yahoo! Browser and the AT&T Yahoo! Online Protection Suite. While our teams remain dedicated to restoring your ability to manage and customize the online protection suite on a Vista PC, we encourage you to learn more about the embedded Windows Security Center, part of the Vista operating system and similar to the AT&T Yahoo! Online Protection Suite, to help keep your PC up to date with the latest security patches and alerts."
TEMPORARY IMPACT...
RESTORING YOUR ABILITY
WTF????
Why is my internet service being impacted by an upgrade to my OS?
FPSs, MMORPGs and RTSs all suck on consoles. Considering that I'm only interested in those genres and that online play with a fast control scheme (ie. keyboard and mouse) is a requirement for me to even consider playing, I think I'll stick with my PC.
Fuck that! Why would I want to replace my nice, general-purpose, hackable PC with DRM-infested proprietary crap?
(Note: I'm not going to be playing games on Vista, either.)
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
> It's about time to give up on PC gaming, especially with the beauty, convenience and
> comfort of today's powerful consoles (both of them).
When I can mod my games and load new/free content as easily as I can on the PC, I'll buy a console again. (Anybody got an ETA on that?) Other than that, the ease of use, bang-for-the-buck, and robustness of consoles makes them the obvious choice.
Ask me about my sig!
Actually, it was a joke. If I was trolling, I would have used my "troll account."
The shift key seems to be sticking on your keyboard. I'm guessing Slashdot isn't the only site you've visited today.
Sounds like someone needs to switch to decaf.
I don't care why you're posting AC
Because in Soviet America, America hates you.
(sorry - couldn't resist)
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
Or even ditching DX completely and using OpenGL.
Game companies arent stupid. They know people are trying other OS's.
Google, id software, Epic and others have moved accordingly.
I'm betting that other companies are considering it.
So, it sounds like when they are done reimplementing UNIX, they might just have a fine operating system.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
My wife bought a new HP running vista a couple of weeks ago; she loves it for the most part: media center, dvr capability, all shiny and pretty. However, the lack of hardware support is maddening; her new quickcam wouldn't work on vista (conflicted with the hauppage tuner card), but miraculously the microsoft lifecam worked fine...hm. Funny, HP doesn't even have drivers for the current-model officejet we bought with the HP PC...sigh. Also, I got a bsod this AM trying to do something really tricky, like look at a .jpg. The allow/cancel popup really is maddening, though...the apple commercials got it right. There are some programs that require 4 or 5 confirmations.
My debut novel AMITY now available: http://jeremydbrooks.c
with hardware stated to work with Vista by the manufacturer.
Not only do you not read the article, it seems you don't read people's posts either. Why do you bother then?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Due to the issues I have had in the past with upgrades, I don't bother to do just software upgrades. Here are my reasons;
That old hardware was fine for running some stuff. An upgrade to just the software leaves the system in an unstable state with not all features hardware or software supported in most cases. Most of my systems are running the original OS on them with the exceptions where the usefullness of the new applications outweighed the loss of the old applications. For example, upgrading from Windows 98 and 2K to Ubuntu is a great move. I lose the upgrade patch cycle, endless security upgrades and AV upgrades and instead get a stable machine for web applications.
I still have my Windows 95 laptop. It is useless for online use and is a sitting duck. It still makes a great MIDI workstation sitting on my synth. It has no USB. It is at it's maximum capacity of EDO memory at 72 Megs. Upgrading the software would be a bad mistake.
More modern hardware gets Linux upgrades. It is relatively pain free. It provides stability and security with lots of new features. I don't have to spend a lot of money to find out if it won't work and needs a hardware upgrade to get it going. Too bad Vista does not have a free Live CD for testing old hardware.
I'll get a new purchased OS when it comes on the new hardware. Then it is up to the vendor to make sure everything is working and compatible. It saves a lot of headaches. I have not seen any reason to spend the money at this time.
The truth shall set you free!
Not everyone who uses a computer is a moronic follower of the games industry. Some people actually use it for doing useful work rather than spending their lifes blasting things up at 60FPS. Such people do not need DX10 whatsoever.
I don't feel like it...
http://www.dwheeler.com/blog/2007/01/07/#drm-nonse nse-hddvd
Nuff Said.
David Wheeler has got it all in a screenful. Why it doesn't do the content-providers any good, why it doesn't do the "consumer" any good, and why it's all a waste of time anyway.
All written in clear English.
One quote from the article: "I do not approve of piracy. I don't approve of murder, either, yet I approve of the sale of steak knives and cleaning supplies... and would oppose trying to halt their sales."
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
What new games? Given all the driver and compatibility issues, do you really think companies are going to release DirectX 10 only games any time soon? I think not.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.