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New Royalty Rates Could Kill Internet Radio

FlatCatInASlatVat writes "Kurt Hanson's Radio Internet Newsletter has an analysis of the new royalty rates for Internet Radio announced by the US Copyright Office. The decision is likely to put most internet radio stations out of business by making the cost of broadcasting much higher than revenues. From the article: 'The Copyright Royalty Board is rejecting all of the arguments made by Webcasters and instead adopting the "per play" rate proposal put forth by SoundExchange (a digital music fee collection body created by the RIAA)...[The] math suggests that the royalty rate decision — for the performance alone, not even including composers' royalties! — is in the in the ballpark of 100% or more of total revenues.'"

58 of 273 comments (clear)

  1. surprised??? never... by advocate_one · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they want to kill the little guys off and just have the field to themselves.

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    1. Re:surprised??? never... by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that most people aren't going to know about this. What I'd propose is that ALL internet radio stations that will suffer by this stage a day or two of action, synchronized. The busiest hours are probably 9am-5pm EST, so go black for one day, with a message explaining why.

      The only reason the RIAA keeps getting away with this shit is because nobody is willing to stand up to them. If the radio stations banded together for one day of action to draw attention to the issue, maybe something will change, but it's gotta be done very soon, as I believe they only have two weeks to appeal.

      The only stations I listen to are independent and have no RIAA music, but I really don't want to see the option go away. If it does, what are we left with? Your local Clear Channel owned station, and other "genre of the week" stations that satisfy nobody.

    2. Re:surprised??? never... by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don't do it that way. Have a message playing in between the songs about the looming threat. Have several different messages in between songs about what the people can do. (Maybe key person to contact or website to go to.)

      A person is more likely to listen more than 30 seconds of the important message if there is some payoff (more music) and a station is more willing to do something like that than lose all or most of their audience to a competitor who isn't doing the blackout thing.

    3. Re:surprised??? never... by Dred_furst · · Score: 5, Insightful

      theres another solution, switch servers to one that isn't based in an RIAA controlled country.

    4. Re:surprised??? never... by Znork · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I dont have that much against mandatory royalties on revenue generating activities. If we truly need an 'incentive' for creativity they're more compatible with a free market than monopoly rights. And they're far easier to measure and manage for the least damage/most benefit to the economy.

      The first problem with the current setup is that it's put under industry administration (whose interests are vastly divergent with both most musicians and the public, witness the current example), when in fact it's a tax and should be under government administration. That way it'd be subject to the same constraints as other taxation forms; is it reasonably equitably collected, do we get our money's worth from the spending (ie, does it finance as many artists and creators as possible for the money we're willing to spend?), is this a reasonable level of expenditure? What's more, we could actually measure the number of new works and how they change depending on the level of spending so we could finally get real data rather than imaginary numbers made up to support organized con men.

      The second problem is that the RIAA corps are excluded. If we need an incentive for creative endeavors, _any_ revenue generating activity using 'copyrighted' material should be subject to the same taxation, wether plays on the radio, sales over the internet or the printing of CD's. Remove the 'copy' aspect of 'copyright' and replace it with a generalized non-transferrable 'incentiveright'. Allow free copying, printing and distribution of materials, let anyone from your local supermarket to online shops freely copy the material, as long as they pay a percentage of any revenue as 'incentive tax'/'royalty', and make sure the incentive actually goes to the creators. And make sure it goes to them in appropriate portions to maximise creativity.

      Imagine the possibilities; you could go to the local supermarket and print a CD with whatever tracks you want on it. You could buy an USB disk of the nights music at a club. You could get a complete recording of the show when you exit a concert. Without copyright but with a simple levy on the revenue, whole hosts of new business and value opportunities would open up, while still maintaining a (more measurable) incentive for creativity.

    5. Re:surprised??? never... by jakoz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What surprises me is how this is assumed to have an effect on internet radio.

      I am a shoutcast fiend. I scan the top stations every day or two. Hardly any of the stations (even the popular ones) play RIAA music.

      Why would it make any difference what they charge if it doesn't get played? They should be paying people to get their shit out there to get it on the air. If they don't (and they won't) then something else will be.

      I would say that I welcome the coming revolution, except that it's so far underway that I'd be missing the boat. Their content is shit, and everyone except the marketing guys recognize it...

    6. Re:surprised??? never... by digitig · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The first problem with the current setup is that it's put under industry administration (whose interests are vastly divergent with both most musicians and the public, witness the current example), when in fact it's a tax and should be under government administration. That way it'd be subject to the same constraints as other taxation forms; is it reasonably equitably collected, do we get our money's worth from the spending (ie, does it finance as many artists and creators as possible for the money we're willing to spend?), is this a reasonable level of expenditure? What's more, we could actually measure the number of new works and how they change depending on the level of spending so we could finally get real data rather than imaginary numbers made up to support organized con men. So we would only have access to music that the government approves of? Bad luck all the acts who are critical of the government, from Pete Seeger through Steve Earle to The Dixie Chicks, and bad luck any genres that are percieved as "evil", from blues and rock 'n' roll ("the Devil's music") to Gangsta Rap ("promotes violence"). Do you really want your senator choosing what you can listen to? Then you must have more trust in your government in the USA than I have in mine here in the UK. Having these choices in the hands of industry may be bad, but passing it to government looks to me to be even worse.
      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    7. Re:surprised??? never... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      theres another solution, switch servers to one that isn't based in an RIAA controlled country.


      Dred,
      you have hit on the ultimate solution to all idiotic intellectual property laws. In some years, it will have been a good thing that the Internet caused the end of IP as we know it. Stories like this one, showing how little the "gatekeepers" of recorded music really understand about how people use their product, are starting to pop up at such an alarming rate that the crash must be near.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:surprised??? never... by KKlaus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No offense, but this is a terrible idea. Who has the authority to decide what is "valuable"? Britney spears was very popular. Does that make her more valuable? Andy Mckee is a fabulous musician, but relatively obscure. Is he then less valuable, or more because what he does is more difficult and complex?

      Whatever you think is the answer is irrelevant, because the point is that a huge number of people will disagree with you. Whatever answer is legislated, a lot of people are going to be upset when, in their opinion, they're spending money incentivising the wrong thing. And what if I don't listen to music? Am I exempt, or is funding the pleasures of others a reasonable thing to be required of me?

      I don't know why having some sort of committee deciding what artists should be paid seems appealing, and that is what it would ultimately come down to. The free market _can_ work here, it just doesn't because we have stupid copyright laws, and a cartel that no one seems willing to take on. That doesn't make a nonsensical socialist program the answer.

      --
      Relax I just want some peanuts.
    9. Re:surprised??? never... by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

      theres another solution, switch servers to one that isn't based in an RIAA controlled country. Good luck. Almost all countries with high-speed access to the Internet are members of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.
    10. Re:surprised??? never... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So we would only have access to music that the government approves of?
      Huh? Are you going for a world record for the least logical non-sequitur here? Since when did placing the government in charge of collecting revenue automatically lead to censorship?

      you must have more trust in your government in the USA than I have in mine here in the UK. Having these choices in the hands of industry may be bad, but passing it to government looks to me to be even worse.
      Ok, name one single instance in which the current UK government has attempted to have "evil" music genres banned, or one single instance in which the current UK government has attempted to have music critical of it banned. Or, come to that, one single other act on its part that leads you to believe that giving it the authority to collect revenues from compulsorary licensing would inevitably lead to censorship.

      Look, even the BBC regularly broadcasts material that many people consider offensive, and material intensely critical of the government. If the government was intent on censorship of "immoral" broadcasting, why the hell did it not stop the BBC from broadcasting that Jerry Springer opera thing? (Answer: because the government is not intent on censorship.) If the government was intent on censorship of criticism, why the hell is John Humphreys not in prison? (Answer: because the government is not intent on censorship.)

      You are clearly paranoid, old chap. I suggest you sit back, have a nice relaxing cup of tea, and contemplate the possibility that the government might, just possibly, have bigger things to worry about than persecuting you.
    11. Re:surprised??? never... by dcollins · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Hardly any of the stations (even the popular ones) play RIAA music."

      Does that make a difference? I'm an indie musician, and to my understanding any time a song gets played, a royalty should be paid to a collection agency like BMI or ASCAP. (Possibly based on a reasonable survey technique.) And that money comes back to the writer, publishing rights holder, etc., regardless of whether it's RIAA or not.

      Can someone please correct this information if I'm wrong? (A small number of internet stations that have played my band required signed wavers foregoing any royalties.)

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    12. Re:surprised??? never... by novus+ordo · · Score: 2, Informative
      http://www.soundexchange.com/licensing101.html#a14

      I already pay royalties to BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. Why do I have to pay royalties to SoundExchange also?

      Every musical recording embodies two distinct copyrighted works. The first is the underlying musical composition, comprised of the written notes and lyrics (for purposes of copyright law, the musical composition is referred to as a "musical work"). The songwriter and/or his or her music publisher usually own the copyright in the musical work. The second copyrighted work is the actual recording itself - the sounds, including the recording artist's interpretation of the musical composition, and the creative efforts of the producer, sound engineers and background musicians. (This is referred to in copyright law as a "sound recording.") The copyrighted recording brings to life the written notes and lyrics of the musical work. A record label typically owns the copyright in the sound recording.

      SoundExchange collects and distributes royalties associated with the public performance of sound recordings made by services operating under one of the compulsory licenses. By contrast, ASCAP, BMI and SESAC collect and distribute royalties associated with the public performance of musical works.


      You can go to each band whose music you want to play and make a deal with them directly. Obviously unless you are only playing a few artists(who would return your call) it would be quite impractical to be calling 100s of artists and flying over to wherever the hell they are(don't forget your lawyer) and make and sign contracts. This is where SoundExchange comes in and 'frees' you of that burden.

      Contrary to what GP states, MANY if not MOST of the internet stations out there operate through this statutory license(if they license at all). I do agree though that they should be paying broadcasters like they do with terrestrial radio. But terrestrial radio stations have stringent requirements who plays when and how many times. Basically they run the show.
      --
      "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
    13. Re:surprised??? never... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, I work in standard broadcasting (i.e., radio -- FM, AM) -- and this is nothing new.

      First, yep, the way the industry looks at it, you have to license against POTENTIAL audience. If you play copyrighted material in an auditorium that holds 1,000 people, you pay the same fixed rate, even if only 20-30 show up. Likewise in broadcasting: we pay the same price whether we're top rated or in the Arbitron basement. They go by market size, not by what you play or how many people might actually be listening. So, yes, from their point of view, it DOESN'T matter whether you're playing Britney Spears and Fergie, or a couple of jazz guys that only a handful of people have heard of.

      Welcome to the wonderful world of royalties, where you pay a fee against the POSSIBILITY that someone might listen to a song without paying for it. (Likewise, you pay a small fee for each blank audio CD that you buy, and for the same reason. After all, you MIGHT use it to record audio.)

      We stopped our online streams several years ago when the licensing organizations (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) told us that we'd have to pay tons of money, even though (I watch the counters) we might have 50 listeners at that time(contrasted with, say, 50,000 on regular radios at the same moment). We finally worked a deal with them for rational fees, and we're streaming again. Who knows how long it will last?

      The latest trick, though, is that they want us to pay AGAIN for the second channel with HD radio. That's not a surprise, not knowing them, but what's annoying is that they want us to pay the SAME fees as we do for the main channel. Let's be honest: at present, there are very few HD-R receivers out there capable of receiving the additional HD channel, but we have to pay the same.

      Oh ... and we have to pay the same EVEN IF the second channel is just rebroadcasting another station that we've already paid for -- in other words, if I have WAAA doing WBBB on the second channel and vice-versa, both of which are licensed and paying fees in good stead, we still pay FULL price. Again. (And in a large market, those fees can easily top SIX FIGURES in a year. Most people don't know that, either.)

      Having said that, I don't think they're consciously trying to stop streams. Most people don't realize that they've been doing this to standard broadcasters, nightclubs, et. al., for many decades. They're just greedy, and use a revenue model that is hopelessly out of date.

      (Think about it: ignoring privacy issues, we have the technology now to KNOW what song you're listening to, and when. But the record industry doesn't propose that, do they? Because they WOULDN'T MAKE AS MUCH MONEY. It's just that simple.)

    14. Re:surprised??? never... by schon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hardly any of the stations (even the popular ones) play RIAA music. Yes, and this is exactly why the RIAA wants them to die - they're competition for the existing cartel.
    15. Re:surprised??? never... by knorthern+knight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Good luck. Almost all countries with high-speed access to the Internet are
      > members of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.

          None of them implement the American extra royalties for internet radio, and most of them have copyrights expiring after 50 years. E.g. in Canada and the UK, everything Elvis did to the end of 1956 is already public domain. That means *ABSOLUTELY NO ROYALTIES WHATSOEVER* on

      - from 1955
      That's All Right/Blue Moon of Kentucky
      Baby Let's Play House/I'm Left, Your Right, She's Gone
      Good Rockin' Tonight/I Don't care If The Sun Don't Shine
      Milkcow Blues Boogie / You're A Heartbreaker
      Mystery Train/ I Forgot To Remember To Forget

      - from 1956
      Heartbreak Hotel
      I Was the One
      Hound Dog
      Don't Be Cruel
      Love Me Tender
      I Want You, I Need You, I Love You
      When My Blue Moon Turns to Gold Again
      Anyway You Want Me (That's How I Will Be)
      Blue Suede Shoes

      The RIAA is afraid their current crap^H^H^H^Hcrop can't compete with 50+ year-old music. That is the most stinging put-down of today's (so called) music.

      --

      I'm not repeating myself
      I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
    16. Re:surprised??? never... by digitig · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since when did placing the government in charge of collecting revenue automatically lead to censorship? The issue is not so much who does the collecting as who does the distributing.

      Ok, name one single instance in which the current UK government has attempted to have "evil" music genres banned, or one single instance in which the current UK government has attempted to have music critical of it banned. Or, come to that, one single other act on its part that leads you to believe that giving it the authority to collect revenues from compulsorary licensing would inevitably lead to censorship. Individual MPs -- and indeed groups of MPs -- in the UK, in the Netherlands and in France, have called for restrictions on Rap. They have not succeeded yet, but it's enough to make me nervous. And the licensing act of 2003 has, as predicted by the Musicians Union, caused the widespread closure of folk clubs and live music sessions (just follow the sad litany of closures on uk.rec.music.folk). A lot of us on the folk scene suspect that the present Labour Party leadership remembers all too well how the folk clubs of the 1960s were a hotbed of left-wing dissent and fears that they could be again. The present UK government do seem determined to stamp out amateur music making; when the 2003 licensing act was being discussed, ministers consistently refused to acknowledge that there was any music making at all outside "the music industry"
      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    17. Re:surprised??? never... by rustman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Novus ordo said ``You can go to each band whose music you want to play and make a deal with them directly.`` That's only true if the band owns their own copyrights. If the band has been released on CD / (or through online distribution like iTunes), most likely the band has licensed the rights to their track to a label or distributor. That is who you need permission from, not from the artist.

      So unless you're talking about bands that are unsigned, or bands that own their own labels, the band/artist is not in a position to license their music for internet radio broadcast!

    18. Re:surprised??? never... by rsmith-mac · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am a shoutcast fiend. I scan the top stations every day or two. Hardly any of the stations (even the popular ones) play RIAA music.
      It's not about what music is related to the RIAA, it's about who has to pay SoundExchange either way. Looking the top-20 station list on Shoutcast right now, these are the stations that either do or should be paying fees to broadcast in the United States:

      • All Sky.Fm & Digitally Imported stations(6)
      • .977 The Hitz Channel(RIAA music)
      • HOT 108 JAMZ(RIAA music)
      • Radio Paradise(RIAA music)
      • 181.fm - Kickin' Country(RIAA music)
      • .977 The 80s Channel(RIAA music)
      • SMOOTHJAZZ.COM(RIAA music)
      • HitzRadio.com(RIAA music)

      That's 13 out of 20, and I'm fairly sure other stations should be on that list too. The electronic music stations on that list all likely owe royalties(DI.fm did long before they launched Sky), and I can't tell what stations play a mix of indy(which may or may not be approved) and RIAA music, causing me to miss counting them. It's sufficient to say that the vast majority of popular internet radio stations are required to pay the SoundExchange and would be hurt by this pricing change.

    19. Re:surprised??? never... by multisync · · Score: 2, Informative

      i love RP and saw the notice on their website yesterday. someone pointed me to it weeks ago and i listen to it *alot* id hate to see them shut down over this :/


      Please support them, if you haven't already done so. If these rates stand, they are retroactive to back to the beginning of 2006. Radio Paradise will receive a bill for last year that is in the six figures.
      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    20. Re:surprised??? never... by digitig · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just so, but worse. The "two in a bar" rule that allowed up to two people to perform was the situation before the 2003 act (which came into force in 2005). Two people, or even one person, singing or playing an instrument without a licence pretty much anywhere is now illegal. There are exceptions for traditional dance and for impromptu performances, so if you turn to your beloved in the park and burst out singing "I will always love you" they won't get you under the licensing act (but then they can get you for disturbing the peace). The upside to the 2003 licensing act is that it's tough on karaoke too, but I think the price is too high just for that

      And in reply to the grandparent posting, of course folk clubs come and go for various reasons, but there has been a flurry of clubs closing down for the specific reason of the owner of the venue deciding that the cost or effort of getting a live music license wasn't worth it. This at a time when folk festivals in the UK are booming and folk has a higher exposure on TV and radio than at any time since the end of what historians call the "long 1960s" (ie, since about 1973)

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  2. Fine by me by JackMeyhoff · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why? It is like all issues of abuse, Patents abuse, music / video media abuse, software patents etc Let them do it, then what happens? Nobody uses their product. Then what? They start to backtrack. Let the system just eat and destroy itself from withing then come the meltdown a new dawn of change comes. Let them get their way and see how long it lasts, all it takes is people to stand up and say enough. Do you really need the shit they produce? No you dont NEED it.

    --
    http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
  3. Shouldn't the title be.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "New Royalty Rates Could Kill (Legal) Internet Radio"?

  4. Video killed the radio star by GroeFaZ · · Score: 3, Funny

    then Internet killed the video star. Then Greed killed the Internet radio star and pissed on all of their graves.

    --
    The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
  5. Pandora's marketing data alone is worth millions by Com2Kid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Pandora knows what I am listening to every second of the day that I am listening to music. They have , literally, a perfect listener profile of me, created by myself!

    If they cannot find a way to monitize the living daylights out of that, then they need to hire some better mathematicians...

  6. Opportunity by Xiroth · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Huh. Big opportunity here for independent artists looking to get heard. Wonder if this'll backfire like...well, just about every other money-grabbing scheme from the RIAA and co.

  7. When will they learn....? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped or turned back, for their private benefit.
    -Robert Heinlein "Lifeline"

    1. Re:When will they learn....? by Restil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Many corporations and industries are hesitant to change their entire revenue model. This is especially the case in such industries such as the music and movie industries which work today much the same as they have since they were originally formed. Whenever a new technology becomes available that they have no control over they are presented with two opportunities. Spend a small amount, which is probably already an allocated expense, to use the government, courts, and other industries to stifle or outlaw the new technology, or spend a much larger amount of money to adapt the revenue model to the new technology. Even if in the long run the new technology will pay off for them, the inability to control the outcome will be an unacceptable risk to endure.

      Oppose that to companies that create CPUs, Intel, AMD, etc. Sure, they have their share of patents, copyrights, and lawsuits to go around, but in the end those issues are insignificant. No manufacturer of CPUs would dare to decide to try to slow the growth or change in their industry, since any effort to do so would instantly give their competitors a significant, perhaps crippling advantage. And as far as lawsuits go, by the time any lawsuit has had its final day in court, the technology in question has long since been retired.

      The music industry is still all caught up in the concept of CDs. They sign a contract with the artist for the copyright on a recording, market the recording, print the CDs, the coverart and inserts, and feed all the distribution and retail stages of the process. The industry is much more than the artist and the customer. But now it doesn't need to be. Sure, we might have less manufactuered boy bands, but there will still as many tabloid enhanced rock/pop/rapstars as ever even if the industry wasn't around to "help" them along. We don't NEED CDs anymore, but that's all the industry knows, that's all they have, and they risk losing it all if they're forced to dive right into a different method of distribution. Of course, in the long run they'll have very little choice, but they're going to go kicking and screaming about it.

      I'm sure the horse and buggy makers didn't get along well with the automobile industry either, but you'd like to hope that the smart ones saw which way the wind was blowing and switched sides before it was too late.

      -Restil

      --
      Play with my webcams and lights here
  8. Only here to help the... artists by 280Z28 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The RIAA has a responsibility to bring more money for the music artists. Unfortunately they misread "going above and beyond to help the people you represent" as "going above and beyond anything... hey Bob who is it we say we're representing again? Yes, we are only here to help 'music artists'."

    "Hey Bob, you hear my youngest started playing the recorder in Kindergarten today? I filled out another WTF1337 form today and we should start seeing the revenues next month. :woot:"

    --
    Turning coffee into code.
  9. OK...That's solved by not playing RIAA music. by the_REAL_sam · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Right?

    Streaming audio isn't a crime.

    --
    "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
    1. Re:OK...That's solved by not playing RIAA music. by Jon_S · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, it's Monday today so It's my turn to be his google.

      http://ipaction.org/action/perform/

      OK, doesn't actually mandate TPM OS's, but it's a slippery slope from there...

  10. Re:Why not donate instead? by karmatic · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why dont more and more people use the Donate method of payment just like open source projects?

    Because very few people actually donate money to open source projects?

  11. What's really wrong with this by dbcad7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unlike conventional radio stations, more listeners costs the station more money. Imagine what would happen if local radio and TV stations were charged extra based upon the numbers of viewers and listners.. I doubt that would fly.

    --
    waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
  12. Re:Well, by Garrett+Fox · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Note that at this rate of repeated extensions (>1 year/yr), there will never be any new out-of-copyright music except for works released to the public domain by their creators' consent.

    --
    Revive the Constitution.
  13. Genuine solution is actually really easy by DigitAl56K · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When faced with the RIAA monopoly, many people propose a boycott that is unrealistic: People won't stop buying CDs, downloading from iTunes, or the like.

    What needs to happen is for Internet radio stations to turn to independent labels. Consumers will buy the music they hear. If Internet radio stations commit to changing the majority of their playlist to artists on non-RIAA labels then the majority of profits will be diverted from the RIAA - they don't get per play royalties and they don't get royalties on purchases. It's a double-whammy. If you look at something like eMusic today, which doesn't carry the RIAA labels, you will quickly find that a little digging turns up more great music than you might actually expect. And it's not just Internet stations that should make the change - everyone can benefit from getting out of this monopoly stranglehold. The RIAA might eventually have to propose competitive terms to survive, artists will be better compensated, and labels which are smaller today will be able to grow faster not only because they will see a greater percentage of royalties, but because the best artists will be less drawn to the RIAA labels in the first place.

    Perhaps, though, the RIAA is already starting to feel some bite, and this is why their proposed fees are so high. If you're paying 100% of your revenues to the RIAA, you aren't paying anything to the indie's.

    1. Re:Genuine solution is actually really easy by DigitAl56K · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'd like to follow up my own submission with some further thought. Unfortunately it's either late at night here, or early in the morning, depending on how you look at it, and further thought takes some time ;)

      One of the other arguments that is often offered in the case for independent labels is that the music is more authentic, creative, and less 'manufactured'. However, to truly displace the RIAA we should realize that it is necessary to cater to the mass markets that they currently serve. It is difficult to instantly change the listening habits and genre preference of millions of people, therefor an effective program would rely on enough mainstream pop, rap, hip-hop, etc. music to be produced by independents and marketed in a way which reaches younger generations and begins to draw their attention from traditional RIAA artists.

      Never in our history have we been so prepared and capable to tackle this problem. Modern music technology and tools in combination with the Internet helps to level the playing field, at least somewhat, such that professional sound is in reach of the amateur through virtual instruments and production software that can be purchased for only hundreds of dollars, while co-ordinated marketing across popular sites contributing to the cause could compete with major budgeting spends by big labels.

      If there were enough contributors to undertake such a concerted movement it might be interesting to set up something akin to sourceforge, e.g. a "musicforge", where independent artists collaborated to produce substitutes for mainstream media and served them to Internet radio stations, at least as a beginning, to help drive the change. If mainstream music is really as formulaic as we often claim it to be, in theory reproducing it to a reasonable standard should not be impossible or even very difficult.

      Just some thoughts :)

    2. Re:Genuine solution is actually really easy by mstrcat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually the boycott isn't all that hard. I haven't bought anything that gives revenue to the RIAA for over 5 years now, yet I listen to more music than ever. My sources of music are: www.magnatune.com -> Indie music, DRM free, full length previews, easy downloads www.cdbaby.com -> Indie music, great 'sounds like' recomendation, good prices www.spun.com (or any other used CD source) -> for when I just have to have an RIAA artist. Buying used doesn't generate any more royalites for the RIAA. Direct from the artist web sites trading mix cds with friends All in all, there is _so_ much music out there, that if you can't find something you like without paying the 'RIAA tax', you aren't trying.

  14. Payola? by Merkwurdigeliebe · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Doesn't his counter their payola-intuition?

    So, in some cases they'll pay a station to play their music, other times they want to be paid to for the priviledge/right(if given) of playing their music. If you go by the logic of payola : exposure=more popularity tranlates to more sales. However, in this case, they want their exposure diminished for what exactly?

  15. The simple solution by mattus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    'US Copyright Office' -> Move your servers to a place that is outside of US jurisdictional where the copyright laws are not controlled by large media companies. Last time I checked US law does not effect the rest of the world.

  16. My email to the RIAA by EPDowd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    RIAA, I am very puzzled. I used to find out about new recordings that I might want to buy, by hearing them on the radio. For quite some time now it seems that Radio stations, AM and FM, all seem to play the same tiny group of music, over and over. I never hear the music I buy, and play at home, played on the radio. When people started using the Internet to make small "Internet only" stations there were enough of them so that I once again had a way to find out about new stuff. How would I ever buy it if I did not know that it existed? This morning I read: "Kurt Hanson's Radio Internet Newsletter has an analysis of the new royalty rates for Internet Radio announced by the US Copyright Office. The decision is likely to put most Internet radio stations out of business by making the cost of broadcasting much higher than revenues. From the article: 'The Copyright Royalty Board is rejecting all of the arguments made by Webcasters and instead adopting the "per play" rate proposal put forth by SoundExchange (a digital music fee collection body created by the RIAA)...[The] math suggests that the royalty rate decision -- for the performance alone, not even including composers' royalties! -- is in the in the ballpark of 100% or more of total revenues." I am puzzled. It seems to me that you are killing the best, largest, and only way for me, and others, to find out about new music from the artists that you say you are representing. For the life of me I cannot figure out why you are doing this. I can't buy it if I don't know it exists. I like Bluegrass, Swing Band, 1950's oldies, Traditional Country, Traditional Western, Western Swing, some Jazz, and several other types of music. I hear a very small portion of this, once in a great while on the radio. But so rarely that it is not worth sitting through the usual tiny, bland, group of stuff that is normally played. Most of it is just not played anywhere except on the Internet. Please let me know how you think I am going to find out about the music you want me to buy.

    --
    73 49 111 01001001
  17. Re:Well, by eclectro · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If it were your music, and you made a living from it, you'd want your share, wouldn't you?

    With copyrights lasting 50 years after an author's death (in the US) it makes no difference to those who are in the grave. And for those who are still alive, they have no incentive to create new works, which was the original intent of copyright law.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  18. Let's be fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and apply these fees to terrestrial radio also. This would then effectively kill ALL radio. A radio station that claims 10,000 listeners at any given time would owe 1.5 million per year. And retroactively collected should put about 80% of stations out of business. Terrestrial radio would be in big trouble because they have to claim more listeners to get the advertising dollar, but being popular would work against them. So, people, let's be fair and give them what they want and tell them to be careful what you wish for, wishes sometimes do come true!!

  19. Re:Why not donate instead? by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The answer to that should be self-evident. People are cheapskates. They will sit and whine about the expense of things, but then will refuse to donate money to individuals who actually try to make a living by the cheapskates' suggestions. Just shows the "I want it all free" crowd are hypocrites and don't really want anything more than "free".

    You get what you pay for.

    By the way "Utopian Socialist", I have an outdoor structure I need built. Come on over and build it and I will give you some writing in exchange.

  20. clueless by poptones · · Score: 2

    If you look at something like eMusic today, which doesn't carry the RIAA labels...

    Dude, you're clueless. emusic is laden with RIAA labels. Being an "indie" does NOT mean "not RIAA affiliated." I even signed up for their "25 free" promo to check out just how many RIAA labels there are on emusic - there's thousands listed on emusic, and you can bet thousands of those are RIAA affiliates. They carry cocteau twins and breeders (for example) who are on 4ad. And who owns 4ad? Beggars Banquet - and BB is an RIAA affiliate.

    Emusic likes to play up the "indie" part - but dont think for a minute that doesn't mean any purchases made there aren't going to help fund the RIAA, cuz it does.

    If Internet radio stations commit to changing the majority of their playlist to artists on non-RIAA labels then the majority of profits will be diverted from the RIAA

    It's a great idea. And guess what? There are already plenty of places that do this - I can go to Magnatune, for example, and listen all day for nothing. All the stuff they play is their own label.

    Doesn't mean squat, because "most folks" want to hear the shit they've heard ten thousand times and aren't interested in expanding their horizons. There's nothing stopping anyone today from starting up a non-label stream and this law can't stop those unaffiliated artists from allowing such broadcasters to play their works. Doesn't matter, because "internet radio" means "radio" and most people don't hear Jackalopes and Wicked Boy on the radio, they hear Micheal Jackson and P Diddy - and that's what they want to listen to online.

  21. Lobby for laws to get "equal time" in the end by gd23ka · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This might well force internet radio to take up more and more independent artists
    that would otherwise get turned down by the dispensing recording industry,
    never see the light of day - and be a great way for indies to get on the air
    to a large audience without having to compete with the established artists for
    time.

    As soon as they see their "mind-share" eroded by people outside their
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola payola system the recoding industry will turn around
    and offer payola or even demand to be put on and lobby for laws to get "equal time".

  22. Greed is going to kill the RIAA by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The nice thing about this, is that could help kill off the RIAA. What needs to happen now, is that the established streamers need to set up alternative streams where they use NON-RIAA controlled music. To encourage it, their RIAA controlled stream could slowly lengthen the time between songs AND advertise the other stream in the RIAA controlled stream. Finally, to encourage the music development outside of RIAA, they need to start paying money to the artists. If they could get together as a group and agree on a rate (ideally close to the old RIAA rate), then as a group pay them. Perhaps magnatune will consider taking it on. Once the musicians realize that they can make a great deal more money by not signing with labels (RIAA), new ones will have nothing to do with them. In addition, we will probably see new labels who have nothing to do with RIAA. The final nail in this, that the group needs to go to the same place where radio stations pay out at (it is not direct to RIAA) and get paid their lower rate. It will encourage regular radio to look at the riaa musicians music.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  23. Clear Channel loses big, too by zeropointburn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Disclaimer: The company I work for is owned by Clear Channel. These comments are my own views and do not reflect the views of my employers.

      Have you considered who will be paying the most? This year, every Clear Channel station in the top 100 markets will be simulcast streaming. That's on the order of 1,300 stations, +/- 100 or so. Since I've already done the math, I'll clue you in.
      Using an average of one song per four minutes, each station will be playing 131,400 songs per year. That's $144.54 per station per listener. TFA quotes 500 listeners as average; that works out to:

    100 listeners: $14,454 --- 500 listeners: $72,270 --- 1,000 listeners: $144,540

    At 1,300 stations or so, that means this ruling will cost Clear Channel:

    100/station: $18.8m --- 500/station: $94m --- 1,000/station: $188m

    I can tell you firsthand they are not making that kind of revenue on their streaming side. Clear Channel stands to lose on the order of $100m this year. Ad revenue might help offset it next year, but we're still looking in the range of $100m or so for 2008 as well. CC most definately did not sign up to lose $150-300m in the next two years; it's really not a good time.

    On a side note: If you want to hear something new on a Clear Channel station, call in or email the PD (production director). Tell him or her you want to hear it. Ask them to check CCADS ('seecads'). If it's not available, tell them to request it from Bobby Leach. Offer to lend them your cd, if it's safe for radio play. Call in or email your favorite jock; tell them to bug their PD about getting the track. Get your friends to request it. If you know people in other major cities, ask them to do the same. If you're not asking the impossible, they will listen and your favorite track will get played. As a bonus, if it gets into the system, anyone can request it in any city and they won't have as much hassle.

    --
    -1 raving lunatic; +6 subGenius... Things even out...
    1. Re:Clear Channel loses big, too by zeropointburn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Addendum: I missed a few things.
      There are some talk/news stations, and listener base is much lower during the overnight shift.
      Even so, slashing the losses in half (way more than enough to account for the discrepancy) leaves an obligation of at least $50m yearly. That's assuming none of these stations get particularly popular.
      --Zero

      --
      -1 raving lunatic; +6 subGenius... Things even out...
  24. Re:Well, by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, there are incentives aside from making money. For example, look at /. -- all of us here are posting creative works, in the form of our posts and responses in these threads, but none of us are making money from it. The incentive of socializing is enough for us. Other natural incentives include fame, art for art's sake, non-copyright-based economic incentives (e.g. commissions, the fine arts market, being first-to-market, etc.), scholarship, etc.

    And in any event, the purpose of copyright law is to serve the public interest, where the public interest is tripartite, and consists of 1) wanting more original works created and published; 2) wanting more derivative works created and published, and; 3) wanting no or minimal (in scope and length) copyright laws.

    Which brings us to the life+70 term (which is what it actually is in the US, at least for some works). For the vast, vast majority of creative works, they'll never make money at all. For the tiny minority of works that will ever make money at all, the vast, vast majority of them will make virtually all of the money they'll ever make within a year or two of release in a given medium. For example, let's take movies: When a movie comes out the opening weekend is absolutely critical. It'll make a lot of money that weekend, less the following week, even less the week after that. After a few weeks, it'll be gone from first-run theaters. After a couple of months, it'll be gone from pretty much all theaters. Whatever money it made from the box office during that period is basically all it will ever get in the theatrical medium. Then it comes out on pay-per-view. I have no idea who actually uses ppv, but apparently someone does, and again, when it first comes out, that's when it makes most of the money it will make from ppv. As the weeks drag on, it pulls in less and less. Eventually it drops off of ppv. Then come the sales to movie rental shops and the public, in the form of DVDs. The first week that the DVD is out is when most of the people who have been wanting to buy a copy of the movie will get it; people who have wanted to rent it (rather than use ppv) will get it then too, resulting in most of the rental store orders to have been placed early. But again, as the weeks drag on, sales drop off. A little bit more money can be squeezed from licensing the movie to the cable movie channels, and after that, to regular tv channels. And you can go through the same cycle in the foreign markets. But then, that's basically it. You have gotten 99.44% of all the money you will ever make from this movie. Most of that (box office, ppv, dvd sales) took place in the first three months or so. (Newspapers and some tv shows have the shortest periods, while books probably have the longest, but even for books, it's a couple of years)

    So the issue is, if all that the remaining years are worth is the paltry 0.56% remaining money to be wrung out of it, which is true for the vast, vast majority of movies that ever make any money at all, since so very few ever have the lasting popularity to keep making a significant amount of money over the long run, is it important that the copyright lasts so much longer?

    If Alice will paint Bob's house when Bob offers to pay her a million dollars, then that certainly has an incentivizing effect, but it is rather costly. If Alice will paint Bob's house when Bob offers to pay a thousand dollars, then that has incentivized her just as much, but in a much more cost-effective manner!

    Well, for creative works, we need to provide the least amount of incentive we can in order to get the most works we can -- basically we're looking for how to get the most bang for our buck. If a five year copyright would get nearly as many movies made as a 95 year copyright (the term length most commonly applicable in the US for movies), then surely the five year term is a better bargain. Adding more incentives -- by lengthening the term -- might get a handful of extra films made, but are they worth the cost to the public of having to endure such long copyrights? Probably not. So don't just look at the incentivizing effect, look also at whether or not it is worth it, and just how much of an effect there actually is.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  25. Local talk shows in Toronto, Canada by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I almost don't listen to music and I never listen to music on radio, but I do listen to the local talk shows that we have in Toronto (Ontario, Canada.) The CFRB1010 (cfrb.com) and AM640
    (640toronto.com) are the two stations that carry really great talk show hosts. Anyone can call onto the stations and express their point of view about the subject at hand.

    Most of the time the subjects are local to Toronto or Ontario or Canada, but sometimes we have world wide subjects as well and it is not all politics, it can be anything, from RIAA and DRM to health care to municipal/provincial/federal politicians to climate issues, class sizes, you name it, we have had it discussed on radio.

    These are AM radio stations of-course (that's why I will never have an iPod or something like it, because it has no AM radio.)

    So for me good radio is about discussions of local/global issues with ability to express a personal point of view. Oh, and we have about equal number of conservative/liberal talk show hosts and though I may not agree with all of their views, they are still interesting to listen to.

    These stations provide their own internet streams and since their content is original (talk shows, weather, traffic, news, commercials) RIAA can't force any royalties. Of-course it's different for FM music channels, but I don't care, those are not essential. By the way in Canada AM radio is federally regulated. Is it very different in the US?

  26. Re:That's kinda the point by MobiB · · Score: 2, Insightful

    EXACTLY! You hit the nail on the head. Non major label acts (ie. local and indie label acts) are a threat to the big 5 and the RIAA. The largest 2 reasons that CD sales have declined in the last decade is because a. quality and variety have diminished and b. paying $12-$19 for crap is a further deterrent. Wider and alternative channels to get music they don't control (and artists they are not actively screwing out of royalties) has great potential to become a massive competitor were it ever to gain traction. So the obvious plan of course is 'don't let it gain traction'. When the RIAA gives their gripes against digital distribution it usually comes down to two things about the format. 1. Users can just listen to what they want, when they want. Which is akin to playing from a CD. 2. "Perfect" digital copies can be made which obviates the need to purchase CDs or official distributions. Do either of these apply readily to Net Radio? (Pandora maybe 'slightly' to the first point since you have some control over which artist, but still not completely a replacement for owning the CDs). The answer is NO. So why are they against this just as they are against MP3s? Make no mistake about it. When it comes to the net radio stations, this is less about protecting the playing of their big acts than it is keeping uncontrolled competition out. They've had a sweet (corrupt really) deal going on for a long time. The artists largely get screwed BY THE LABELS (that fact doesn't get enough press) and they have a cartel lock over what actually makes it to the consumer. They will actively hunt and kill anything that is a threat to this. This is just the latest hunting trip.

  27. Re:Well, by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's just typing - people talking shit. It doesn't have any worth in the same way that a symphony, novel or tv comedy does. You don't need money from your last post to keep you in food, shelter etc while you work on your next post.

    Whether or not the people who make it need to make money from it has nothing to do with its artistic value. A number of artists made money though other means (they had day jobs; they were supported by others; they were already rich; they had become rich enough from their previous work to be able to retire comfortably, yet didn't) but still created artistically valuable works.

    And similarly, people talking shit can be valuable too. Copyright does not make artistic judgments. The law and government are absolutely no good at doing that, and shouldn't do that. Right now, these posts (well not mine, see below) are copyrighted, and copyright attempts to serve as an incentive to cause them to be created. I agree that this is bad, but not for the same reason as you. I think that copyright should be an opt-in system. If some /. poster felt that his post was worth being copyrighted, he would fill out a form, send it, and a copy of the post, and a check for a modest sum, to the Copyright Office. Then he would get a copyright on it. The government wouldn't only dole out copyrights for works they felt were meritorious, but they also wouldn't give out copyrights to everyone for everything. Instead, they'd only give them out for people who took the trouble to ask, placing the judgment -- not of artistic merit, of of whether or not copyright was an incentive -- in the hands of the people getting the copyrights. And since they'd have to make a token investment in order to get the copyright, no one would just get copyrights for the hell of it (since that would cost them money) but they would instead judge whether or not the money they could get from exploiting the copyright would at least pay for the cost of getting the copyright in the first place (the copyright cost should be token, really -- e.g. the current $45 fee), plus a bit. Then, I suspect, virtually no one on /. would ever bother to get a copyright on their posts, and the level of posting would probably not decrease, indicating that copyright is not our incentive here. But people who make works for which copyrights are important to them would still get them.

    Formalities are a good way of trimming back copyright so that it serves as an incentive, yet isn't granted more than it ought to be.

    Where did you get point 3 from?

    Partly from all post-Anne copyright law, which always expires after a particular time. Partly from human nature, which is greedy (that's not a bad thing; artists seek out copyrights because they're greedy, and the public gives out copyrights, yet limits them, also because they're greedy). Partly because the obvious (yet sadly unrealistic) ideal world would be one in which everyone who could create, did, yet there were no copyrights, and everyone was free to enjoy works as they saw fit, amass huge collections for free, etc. And partly because there really is a self-evident public interest in having unrestricted works, just as there is an interest in having more works.

    If the copyright for a film lasted 5 years, then when the next format comes out, the copyright holders would make £0, whereas now they make a lot more.

    This has yet to be determined, actually. DVD was a lot more popular than VHS, but HDDVD and Bluray have yet to be. And with backward compatibility in place, there's less pressure to replace one's DVDs with a newer format. Eventually there will be a shift, but it'll be caused more by changes at the supply level. And we've seen a lot of replacements come out that have challenged CDs (e.g. DVDA, DAT, Minidisc, SACD) and none have gotten anywhere. Downloadable music is doing okay, but more on the piracy side of things. Free MP3s are popular against costly CDs; costly MP3s (or whatever), significantly less so.

    P

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  28. Actually it should be: by novus+ordo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "New Royalty Rates Could Kill (Legal) Internet Radio (in the USA)"

    --
    "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
  29. Re:Well, by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The five years was just an example. I actually support shorter terms (maybe 1 to 2 years), but with frequent renewals that provide an overall maximum of something like 20. With an exception for software, and maybe some other classes of works that 'age' so rapidly that an overall maximum of 5 would actually be best.

    Also, I think we should split the right to copy from the right to produce derivative works. Direct copies, with minimal changes to the content should be preserved for 20+ years. However, we could allow derivative works sooner than that. That would still allow for substantial incentives to producers, but would also allow for mash-ups and the like within a few years of the creation.

    That's an interesting idea. My take on this has been to have an exception for natural persons engaged in noncommercial activity. So people could make mash-ups right off the bat, but not if they charged for them (or used them as a draw for advertising, etc.) and not if they were a corporate entity or the like. Given that most individuals ignore copyright these days anyway, but do support the idea of copyright applied to commercial endeavors and entities, I think it's in keeping with our social norms.

    Combine that with a registration system for the copyright after a few years (to solve the orphaned works problem),

    Registration should be required no more than a year after publication (which would be broader than what it consists of now). If an author can't be bothered to register, I don't see why we should be bothered to give him a copyright. This is more generous than the old system (which required them by publication), less generous than the present, insipid, system (which doesn't really require registration at all), and is kin to the patent system (which gives people a year to decide, and works pretty well in that regard).

    Remember, most orphaned works are orphaned at birth!

    and I think we'd be doing pretty well.

    Yes, but a few more things are wanting. For example, repeal of chapters 9-13. Having measures in place that make copyright and DRM mutually exclusive, so as to discourage the use of DRM (I don't think it can be banned, due to free speech, but we surely don't have to give people copyrights for DRMed works). Having measures in place to fully federalize copyright. Limiting the use of adhesive contracts and terms of sales, so as to reduce the dangers and use of EULAs. Exceptions that take into account the reproduction that is unavoidable in our computer technology, but which is not really material in an infringement sense. Better safe harbors for ISPs. Statutory secondary liability (the courts have screwed up on this, otherwise I'd leave it to them). No copyrights for classes of works that don't need it, e.g. architectural works. Some other formalities, such as deposit. Pulling out of Berne and other treaties, but providing for unilateral national treatment. Better treatment of sampling (it's basically just audio collage, and is transformative enough that it would generally be fair). There's some other things too, but already this list grows large. Dealing with things like DRM, however, are key before we can think we're doing pretty well.

    --
    -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  30. Why is this a bad thing? by Garwulf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've read the article, and while the royalty rates are on the ludicrous side, I've got to wonder why everybody is thinking that this is a bad thing. Frankly, this could be the best thing to ever happen to internet radio and the music scene.

    I've been thinking about the impact a lot since reading it, and it seems to me that there are two groups of radio stations to consider:

    1. Online pirate stations who are broadcasting the music illegally. While I don't think they should be pirating the music, the fact is that if they are pirating it now, making the royalty rates higher are not going to stop them from pirating the music and playing it. To misquote Terry Pratchett, "they're PIRATES - they don't care about the law." So, no real impact there.

    2. Online stations that are playing the music legitimately. This will have quite an impact on them, and most likely a positive one all round. Well, I should say, for everybody except the labels represented by the RIAA, who just got themselves priced out of the market.

    It seems to me that online radio isn't going to disappear, but will do something else - the broadcasters will vote with their feet. SoundExchange and the RIAA will have a very difficult time proving that retroactive royalties are due in any court of law, and the larger stations should be large enough to defend themselves, so I doubt that the RIAA will press too hard on that one (after all, if the RIAA tried to collect from AOL, you'd have a battle royale that would take years to sort out, and my money would be on AOL). But, with the royalty rates so high, no radio station will be able to play music from an RIAA label, and the broadcasters will be very hungry for new material.

    So where do they find this new material? Independent artists. With the online broadcasters desperate for material, it will be a seller's market for independent recording artists, in the process giving that section of the market just the sort of boost it needs. This will raise the profile of the independent music scene, while at the same time allowing the independent artists to negotiate a reasonable royalty situation with the broadcasters. So, the listeners who get exposed to new (and less corporate) material win, the independent artists win, and the broadcasters get out from under the RIAA thumb, so they win.

    Come to think of it, the only people who lose are the RIAA, who just got shot in the foot and lost a market...

    --
    Robert B. Marks
    Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
  31. It's not RIAA music. It's any copyrighted music. by rustman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is the big misnomer: It's not RIAA music. It's any copyrighted music that a station hasn't been granted explicit permission to play.

    In many cases, the artist doesn't own the copyrights, the record label (small, medium or large!) has been assigned the copyrights as part of the record deal made with the artist.

    Internet station can survive if they go out and get permission from the copyright holders for every track they play. This is tedious and time consuming, but still economically better than paying under the statutory license.

  32. It will only kill those who try to stay legal. by rustman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It will only kill those who try to stay legal. Back in 2002, many webcasters got together, hired a lobbyist, and got the Small Webcasters Amendment passed, which allowed small broadcasters operate on a percentage of revenue model (11% aprox). The new rates start out at effectively 10-40 times what the old rates were, and by 2010 increase by 2.5x. So by 2010, legal net broadcasters will be paying 25-100 times what they paid in the 2000-2005 periods.

    Of course, you can just say, screw it, and not pay, and hope you're not noticed. It's actually worked very well for lots of stations out there.

    Net radio didn't cry wolf, it sounded the alarm. And only through the listeners and supporters who wrote and called their congress people was the small webcasters act passed.

    We are going to have to act again to preserve the state of internet radio as it is. Only this time we should get right to the cause, and act to get the provisions of the DRPA and DMCA that removed the fair use exemptions that over-the-air broadcast radio has from these royalty requirements.

  33. Re:Kill Internet Radio, or... by beaverfever · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "An album, CD, tape, or mp3 is the product you sell.
    A radio station playing music is advertising the product.


    Are the stories published in a newspaper or magazine merely advertising for the writers? What about talk radio Is that content merely advertising for the commentators? What are they selling? Are journalists and writers getting rich by touring the world and performing at stadiums? Are sports broadcasts merely advertising for the sports teams?

    Content draws listeners, and the station must pay for content to attract listeners. A regular listening audience allows the sale of advertising time. What is the difference between paying a journalist, a comedian or a composer for content?

    Why does this discrimination exist? Where is the outrage against copyright control over the written word, or photography, or works of art? Why can't one radio station merely re-broadcast the news report of their competitor on a thirty second delay (but with their own advertising) and save lots of money on staff and resources? Would it be acceptable in your world for every network to sponge off one network to broadcast pro sports?

    Aren't composers and the companies which back them financially worthy of being paid for their time and effort? The people who write software code get a salary, so why not the people who write music? It seems that if it's not popular entertainment (games, movies, music, please stand up), then copyright is not a problem around here.

    Please don't start with the "fat-cat music biz scoundrel ripping off innocent musician" argument, because it's so full of cliché that I'll retch if I hear it one more time. Lots of people make bad business choices every day, either because they're naive, stupid, have bad luck or all three. People get ripped off too, often for the same reasons. Rock stars are heroes and have a public outlet, and so they can cry their woes from rooftops and their sob stories are embraced by the masses. Boohoo for them, but their plight should be exceptionally low on the list of priorities for world revolution.

    Stating that music content on a radio station (broadcast or online) is merely advertising to encourage the purchase of the same entertainment product is just plain wrong. It is a factor in the equation, not the entire equation.

    "If it is truely a free market, then you would create your own station and compete
    instead of demanding extra money from the successful."


    You're confusing "free to make choices" over "free to do anything I want". The copyright holder can demand more money, but a station doesn't have to accept. They can find different content and not have to pay that copyright holder. Or they can continue paying, but find ways of generating higher revenue. If enough stations reject the copyright holder's costs, then maybe the cost will come down, or maybe the copyright holder will be stubborn and put themselves out of business. If enough stations acquiesce and find ways to make more money, then the business risk has paid off for the holder. This is rather simple stuff.