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NASA Can't Pay for Killer Asteroid Hunt
CGISecurity.com writes "NASA officials say the space agency is capable of finding nearly all the asteroids that might pose a devastating hit to Earth, but there isn't enough money to pay for the task so it won't get done. 'We know what to do, we just don't have the money,' said Simon 'Pete' Worden, director of NASA's Ames Research Center." But hey, it's just the potential end of the world, so nothing much to worry about there.
Does it really matter? If there is a life on earth ending event occurring from some asteroid they COULD find, does it matter at all? There is nothing we can do about it anyway. So tell me, what is the big deal.
I'm a United States citizen.
... what's another billion? I mean, it's obvious NASA's not asking us to spend a significant amount of our income on "Asteroid Insurance."
I have paid ~$50-60 for a few smoke detector and pay maybe a dollar or two a year to maintain the batteries in them.
I make an average amount of income so $50 is nothing when a fire could take my life. I've seen other people's houses destroyed by fires but never mine. I don't know if we see other planets regularly destroyed by asteroids or impacts but if you can make a case for it, then this analogy may be apt.
I also know that walking down the street in Prince George's County might result in your death. So do I hire a body guard to protect me? No. Why? Because I don't have the money for that. If I were a billionaire, I would definitely look into it and probably hire a driver too. I see people robbed and killed on TV so, again, if you can point to examples where planets have been destroyed, this analogy is apt.
Considering the war in Iraq has cost me, the taxpayer, $300 billion and I'm not sure that that is increasing my safety
In my opinion, all NASA needs to do is present congress with a scientific statistic claim with percent confidence of global destruction. If we have craters on our planet & there are bones of things that shouldn't have died lying all around, I'm guessing they could place something like a 1% chance of a decent sized asteroid hitting us within a couple thousand years. Given that information, $1 billion may not seem like a bad idea considering most of us employ smoke detectors with even less risk of harm/loss to us.
My work here is dung.
Seriously, the British seem to be really obsessed with this, couldn't they kick in a couple of quid? How about the Russians, or the Chinese, or...
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
There is nothing we can do about it anyway.
Seems like a questionable assumption to me. There's quite a bit we could possibly do about it, if we knew long enough in advance. It's only if we only knew about it a few weeks or months in advance, that it would probably be a bend-over-and-pucker-up moment.
There is a whole lot of ingenuity (and a whole lot of explosives) spread across the globe as a whole; assuming that people got together and decided that the continued survival of the human species is a Good Idea, I suspect we could probably figure out a way to annihilate or deflect a rock, given enough lead time.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
If the thing is small enough to destroy, money will be found. Yeah, we may have to tell Iraq "sorry" and stop all Social Security payments but we'll find a way.
If the thing is too big or too close and it's curtains for life as we know it, well, "eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Actually, NASA is already tracking objects >3,300 feet in diameter, but this would be to track all objects capable of doing "massive damage" to Earth.
My question is - why is it the job of the US to protect the world?
Wouldn't this be a UN issue?
This is Jenny. She and her family are having a picnic at the foot of a volcano. Oh no. The volcano has errupted. What do you do now Jenny? That's right duck and cover. What do you do Jimmy? Duck and cover. DUCK AND COVER!
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Depending on what asteroid we are talking about it would be a relatively long time frame between hitting the earth. There is one asteroid that we are tracking that if it basically passes through the certain area we know it's going to hit earth but there will be plenty of time to prepare. It had some ironic name involving some god of death. I really wish I knew the name. According to wikipedia one might hit 800 years from now.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
See, hunting for killer asteroids requires money, that money can serve Congress better by buying votes through some "aid" program. NASA will continue to get the short end of the stick because we as American citizens keep putting back the same aristocracy that is allowing the US to fall behind the world in science.
NASA doesn't need to justify it, we the people need to justify ourselves by putting people more concerned about advancing this nation instead of advancing their own status.
That $300 billion tab in Iraq is meaningless in this conversation as NASA's budget would still be what it is. The money would have just vanished down some vote buying program that forever indebts us.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The explosion alone could have with the power of 100 million tons of dynamite, enough to devastate an entire state, such as Maryland, they said.
Maryland? Here in Texas, we call that a "county". Call me when you have something that can devastate a real state.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
That way I could greet the end of the world heavily in debt and with an empty wine cellar. No sense in saving up for retirement if a killer asteroid is just going to destroy the world a week after you quit your job and move to the Caribbean.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
The Bush Administration announced a while back that NASA's priorities should be to get us back to the moon and come up with a way to get humans to Mars, and NASA's been complaining that it's interfering significantly with the budget for earth science projects - satellites and such. They only get so much money, and if they've got to put it into planning for human missions to places that should really be handled by robots at this point, then they don't have enough to do most of the other work.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
News flash: Government agency asks for more funding
I like the part where they say... "enough to devastate an entire state, such as Maryland"
"Oh, not that we'd WANT anything to happen to Maryland, Congress. No. But, you know, sometimes things go wrong. Especially when NASA doesn't get funding. It makes NASA so disappointed when it doesn't get funding, and when you're disappointed, you sometimes don't look so hard for killer asteroids. You know how it is."
A cheaper option would be to simply piggyback on other agencies' telescopes, a cost of about $300 million, also rejected
Thats $1 per American. There shouldnt even be a debate.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
It was just a few years ago that a fairly sizable asteroid passed between the Earth and the Moon and we didn't even notice it until it passed by because it came from the direction of the sun. We need at least several years notice on these things if we want to avoid a direct hit at some point. There's no argument to be made against paying for the survey. We know big rocks hit the Earth. It's happened plenty of times in the past. It will eventually happen again. And it's one of those things that doesn't really cost that much compared to the GDP.
That said, it's to the benefit of the entire planet and the entire planet should pitch in to help pay for it. Someone said, "So what? There's nothing we can do about it." Actually, given a few years notice, there's a lot we can do about it. An asteroid 5-10 years from hitting doesn't need much of a push to get it completely out of our way. It's when it's only a few months away that we're just completely screwed. But if there were an imminent threat of collision a few years out, I guarantee you, we'd figure out a way to move it. The world would definitely come up with the resources to figure out a solution.
Whether or not we find the asteroids, there's nothing we can do it about them if one is going to hit us.
I don't buy this for a second. In fact, I suspect that if the resources of the entire planet were committed, over a number of years, it would probably be possible to put a breeding population of humans on another planet, with at least a small chance of surviving and propagating the species. Or of digging deep subterranean caves and squirreling away some people down there, etc. Or of blowing the incoming asteroid up with nuclear weapons, deflecting it with some sort of propulsion unit / system of complex mirrors / etc.
In short, I really don't think there's any particular reason why we couldn't ensure our own survival, if we (a) really wanted to, and (b) knew about the impending problem long enough in advance. While funding NASA's search would do nothing about problem (a), it would do a whole lot about (b). Which, to me, puts us about 50% closer to surviving than if neither (a) nor (b) are true.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Nasa does keep a thorough survey of NEOs
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/ca/
They (try to) keep track of any asteroids 100m in diameter or greater that can come within 0.05 AU of earth.
We could just cut out the middle man and send Steven Tyler into space to eat it....or maybe Chuck Norris could give it a roundhouse.
Beer! It's what's for breakfast!
All they really need to do is develop an automated identification software and telescope computer interface. Then sell them for about $200 each. It would only take a 12" scope to ID 99% of the objects!
:)
Then set up a registry and offer the Discovery announcement, naming rights, and mineral rights to anyone that ID's them.
Hell, I would spend all night ID'ing them for the mineral rights alone
NASA is tracking an asteroid, that could hit the earth in 2036. OF course by "could" NASA means 1:45,000. Still, why is the US the only country tasked with worrying about this. Hopefully the members of the UN wake up and smell the asteroid!
Quota from Armageddon - "No offense General, but it's a big ass sky..."
The number of people in this thread saying "Oh well, there's nothing we can do about it anyway" is just bizarre. It's one thing to think the threat is not worth the money, it's another to think there's no point in even trying to defend against it. Weird.
The amount of people whom it will kill.
The capacity we have to do something about it.
we all fail this: we underestimate threats until they hit us, then we overreact
look at 9/11 for example, or the 2004 tsunami
the problem is, it's emotional. the emotions are hooked up to some other issue before the catalclysm hits us, then when it hits us, it becomes very emotional, and we start doing all sorts of crazy stuff, including stuff we don't have to do/ shouldn't do for our own good
and don't poopoo this fact about "other" people: you do the same thing, don't lie to yourself. like you can't find an example of what i just described above somewhere in your personal life history. it's essential human nature, and that includes your behavior, human
the lesson?
we better be hit with a big asteroid that takes out a country or a continent before we get hit with the one that takes out the planet
only in the former case will humanity's response be effective at saving itself
but if we get hit with the planet-killer first? we're flat out doomed. we won't be prepared. simple human nature dictates this fact
so the history of humanity is wrapped up in this coin flip: planet-killer or country killer. combine this random chance with essential human natue, and whichever hits us first determines whether or not humanity surivives
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Someone just tell Bush/Congress that the terrorists have achieved a presence in orbit (thanks to Iran!), and we need to be able to keep an eye on the entire atmosphere and beyond to be able to defend against this new threat. Push out the same idea to the media, and the general American public will rally and cry for it (well, a few concerned citizens with too much time and too little intelligence will send some e-mails to their congressmen) causing congress to back the plan (well, some interns will get a few minutes with their congressperson to mention some odd e-mails about this, and the congressperson will back the plan without doing any sort of research), and it's practically guaranteed!
Oh, and will you look at that, the same technology used to protect us from terrorists can also detect killer asteroids and potentially habitable planets in a galaxy far, far away.
Well, ain't that a coincidence. TWAT succeeds yet again!
Grover Norquist, neocon "think tanker" and propogandist extraordinaire, once eludicated that he wanted to shrink government down to the point where one could drown it in a bathtub. Huzzah, cheer, all that from his audience.
Budget cuts are effectively impossible now, as discretionary spending, defined as non-obligatory, is now a tiny percentage of the Federal budget and essentially irrelevant in cost cutting.
How does one cut then? Apparently the neocons are using a new trick: spend like maniacs. Eventually discretionary funding, like NASA, becomes impossible because so much of the budget has gone towards military and privatization expenses. So much was spent that they had to borrow trillions to keep spending more.
Effect is that the government owes so much that the largest non-discretionary line item, outside of the military, is simply paying yearly interest on the debt. So the two biggest expenditures are now the military and paying out national treasure to service the debt of the money lent to us to cut taxes and spend like fools.
End game: government has three purposes: spending on military, spending on now-privatized government services, and debt service on monies borrowed to spend in the 2000's (and the Reagan 80's) on tax cuts. Government becomes a military contractor, a corporate contractor, and a welfare fountain for the very wealthy, while never actually paying off the debt incurred to give tax cuts to those same very wealthy.
And NASA doesn't get funds, the NSF gets defunded, a chain reaction of penury resulting from this spending NOW. The neocons get their new, streamlined government which looks a lot like a classic fascism, with direct-to-corporation payments, with no spending on things not deemed necessary to fund guns or debt. Bankruptcy.
Both financial and cultural. Other nations without ideological madness spend less on military and tax cuts, keep government services cheap by using civil service, and keep debt low or nonexistent, as Canada or Norway does. Neocon ideology will cripple the future of the U.S., as we are consuming our present and future human capital to enrich the wealthy of today.
Eventually we are going to become extinct if not by an asteroid, then by the sun expanding into a red giant and gobbling up the Earth. The only way to eliminate extinction is to get our collective asses off this rock, into space and on as many planetoid surfaces as possible. That way at least a small part of humanity will survive.
Doesn't Halliburton do asteroid diversion?
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
But hey, it's just the potential end of the world, so nothing much to worry about there.
So maybe the rest of the world can chip in?
in soviet russia, asteroid finds YOU!
oh, wait.
Contrary to what YOU may think, the danger of getting hit is (and always has been) non-trivial. A middling-sized brick hit Tunguska only 99 years ago, and did as much damage as the largest H-bombs of the cold war could. And when Comet SL9 broke up and hit Jupiter in 1994, the largest fragment had a 6 TERATON detonation with a fireball the same size as Earth. There's plenty more where they came from.
It's money worth spending, especially compared to the various rogue white elephants we've paid for in the past 5 years.
given enough tracking and preparation, even a small explosion far enough way will alter the trajectory of a large asteroid to buzz the earth rather than slam it. of course, not done carefully enough, and you could make things worse. so therefore, we shouldn't try at all, right?
you go ahead and lay down and die. apparently, according to you, it's superior not to try and just accept death. what an ultranegative loser you are
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
on monies borrowed to spend in the 2000's (and the Reagan 80's) on tax cuts
Look, I've grown much less libertarian over the years. I'm now OK with money being taken from people (including me) by force and spent on "good things".
However, I'm still not OK with pretending that we're not doing that. The money is ours, the government takes some away by force and spends it. Them's the facts.
There's no such thing as "spending on tax cuts". That would be like my wife wanting to buy something, me objecting, and then her saying "well, you would just 'spend' the money on savings or paying off debt if I don't spend it!". The one thing is spending, and the other isn't.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
but I know a few people who do who say that we could solve the problem of a giant asteroid if we had enough warning. We know blasting it into little chunks wouldn't do much but we could actually shift it's trajectory by using just a shuttle. The shuttle would go up alongside the Asteroid to one side or another (90 degrees off the collision course) and just sit there, keeping as little distance as possible without crashing into it. By doing this, the gravity between the shuttle and the asteroid would cause a shift in the trajectory of each. As long as we keep moving the shuttle a little at a time so the don't actually collide, over the course of a decade or two it would shift enough to miss Earth. And we are capable of seeing well into the future. We already know that there is an Asteroid that could possibly hit us in (I believe) 29 years. It may not have been tried but as physics stands, there are things we can do. It's based in simple Physics and could work. We aren't totally helpless until we throw out information, either of physics or... well... physics I guess =).
NASA just needs to classify it under the War on Terra.