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Open Source Federal Income Tax Software

Posted by kdawson on from the taxman-meets-penguin dept.

niiler writes "There is finally a usable US federal income tax program for Linux users who don't wish to file online. TaxGeek is a Mozilla-based US income tax program that includes Form 1040, Schedules A, B, C, C-EZ, D, E, K-1 (1065), SE (Short and Long), W2, Forms 8880, 8853, 8863, 8812, 5695, 4952,3903, 2106, 2106ez, 2441 with access to most other files as PDFs. It is intended to be extensible so that developers can easily add other forms that are needed without affecting the existing file formats and stored data. TaxGeek will also create PDFs of all the supported forms so that you can print them and send them in to the IRS. (PDF creation support requires the installation of Perl PDF::Reuse.) At this point, e-filing is not supported."

32 of 227 comments (clear)

  1. Nice Disclaimer by dduardo · · Score: 3, Informative

    ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEES ARE OFFERED. If you have a ton of money riding on finding all the right loopholes and getting everything 100% perfect, buy a tax program or use an accountant.

    1. Re:Nice Disclaimer by canuck57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEES ARE OFFERED. If you have a ton of money riding on finding all the right loopholes and getting everything 100% perfect, buy a tax program or use an accountant.

      Ask your accountant for his guarantee. I don't think it is any different. But the benefit in seeing an accountant is they have memorized the loop holes you can tap into.

      But at least with this event, those commercial tax packages better get a Linux version or lose market share. Not everyones tax is complicated enough to need an accountant.

    2. Re:Nice Disclaimer by bfields · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For those of us who still do our taxes by hand, it wouldn't really be any riskier, and might not be any more trouble, just to run through the software once, check it by hand, and send in bug reports.

      Not mentioned in the summary: this is free software (under the GPL).

    3. Re:Nice Disclaimer by swillden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEES ARE OFFERED. If you have a ton of money riding on finding all the right loopholes and getting everything 100% perfect, buy a tax program or use an accountant.

      Honestly, that's the same guarantee you you get with a commercial tax program or from an accountant. The difference is that the accountant, and to a lesser extent the commercial software, will probably do a better job. Probably. But if you miss out on big deductions you should have taken, or, even worse, if the program or accountant tells you to take some deductions that land you in hot water, it's all on you. Your taxes are your responsibility, period.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:Nice Disclaimer by Hollinger · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, not really. Web applications are generally cross-platform. Have you tried www.hrblock.com? I've used since 2004. The site works in firefox, it includes e-filing, and paying by check or credit card.

      How would a bad linux version translate to a loss of market share when you have web apps that will work just as easily?

      --
      Michael C. Hollinger
    5. Re:Nice Disclaimer by insignificant1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Honestly"? who is being honest? Who hasn't checked the 1040 form recently? The tax preparer gets his/her OWN line on the tax form that he/she signs. So there IS accountability for the preparer, if he/she does things incorrectly. There is no guarantee that you get all the best loopholes (though some DO guarantee this) with an accountant, but the IRS likely has never convicted anyone of paying too much in taxes.

      I have posted this comment to other posters who don't know how taxes work (are you still a dependent?). Not sure about TurboTax or whatnot. But if someone prepares your taxes for you, they will be held responsible in some manner by the government, whether or not they want to be held responsible, once they sign on the line. Check out the 1040 form on the IRS.gov website if you want to see for yourself.

    6. Re:Nice Disclaimer by hawaiian717 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      TurboTax fills in that line with "Self-prepared".

      --
      End of Line.
    7. Re:Nice Disclaimer by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 2, Funny

      I wish all I had to do was walk upstairs.

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    8. Re:Nice Disclaimer by thrawn_aj · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Mod parent +1 insightful.

      What you want in a tax software package is functionality. However, an equally important thing is liability. If this OSS burps and does something wrong, I doubt the IRS is gonna listen to your "dog-ate-my-homework" kind of excuse. However, if you do use a package from the list of supported software on the IRS website http://www.irs.gov/efile/article/0,,id=118986,00.h tml (chances are, you can find a free one that can e-file for your income level quite easily), at least you're in a position to defend yourself if the thing chokes. If a Linux package is not available at the moment, I'm sure it will be soon. In the meantime though, I would humbly suggest that techies NOT gamble their taxes on this issue :P and seek out a windows machine (wearing a crucifix of course =D). The local library might be a good place. You can always get drunk after and not remember any of it =D.

    9. Re:Nice Disclaimer by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I like Linux as much as most of Slashdot, but do you *really* think that not having a Linux version of tax software will cause any appreciable loss of market share for the mainstream tax software providers? If you do it's time to take the rose colored glasses off!

  2. You get to be the beta tester! by goombah99 · · Score: 2, Funny
    News from their website page:

    2007-03-08 TaxGeek06d, a major release with *numerous* bug fixes, more extensive testing based on the IRS PATS (Participants Acceptance TeSting) test input suite, improvements to the user interface, and more supported forms, has been released. Several additional forms have been introduced as well.

    Please every one use this software this year so all the bugs get found and I can use it next year! 03/08 is a bit close to 4/15 for me to be worrying about bugs!

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:You get to be the beta tester! by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Interesting

      While I don't want the refund check dependent on a beta, I am going to run both Tax Cut and TaxGeek06d to see how they compare....

      --
      Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
    2. Re:You get to be the beta tester! by Professor_UNIX · · Score: 2, Informative
      If you're poor enough that you need to use free software to prepare your taxes (up to $52,000 AGI) then you can just use any of the IRS's FreeFile online participant companies. If you make more than that then you need to stop whining and just go buy Turbotax or Taxcut or use one of their online web sites if they don't support your choice of fringe desktop operating systems. Turbotax online should work fine in Mozilla on any platform. If you have State Farm insurance there is even a "free tax filing" link once you login to the State Farm web site get free Online Turbotax Basic or Deluxe or $20 Premier with free electronic filing of federal and state returns.

      If neither the Freefile program or Turbotax/Taxcut software or their online versions fit your tax filing needs Mr. Moneybags then you just need to go talk to your private accountant like the rest of the rich people and leave the bottom 95% of us to our drudgery. ;-)

    3. Re:You get to be the beta tester! by Skater · · Score: 4, Informative

      Do you have any idea what a refund is?

      It means your employer withheld too much of your pay. So your employer and the government got to keep it, gaining interest on it, until you file your taxes and get the check for ONLY the amount they owe you - they keep the interest.

      It's best to have no refund, because it means that you got the money when you earned it, not several months later.

    4. Re:You get to be the beta tester! by hazem · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not sure where you get the economy collapsing out of my post.

      I'm just saying it's financially illiterate to claim you're saving money on your taxes while to get that savings you have to pay nearly 3 times what you're "saving" in interest to someone else.

      Now, it's generally a sound idea use a mortgage to buy a house so you can build equity and have the house appreciate (and also to lock in a fixed payment level for your housing over a long period of time).

      But it's a pretty dumb strategy to take out a 2nd mortgage at a higher and probably variable rate to finance your European vacation and and your new jet skis while claiming it's "okay" because you get to write off the interest from your taxes. You're paying 1000 to save 300. You're still net -700. Sure you have your vacation memories and some depreciated jet skis but it's not sound thinking.

      The same financial illiteracy leads many to think they're winning some great coup against the government when they get a fat refund check every year. You then try to explain that that money was theirs all along and isn't a gift from the government - and that they've been loaning it to the government for free. Then you suggest they reduce their withholding so they get the money all year long instead of in a huge lump. The typical answer is: "Well, if I do that, I'll spend it all. I like getting a big lump all at once."

      The first part of that is an admission of lack of any self control - a much bigger problem, really. They also don't understand that if they reduce their withholding and put the extra cash in a savings account or some other investment that they not only have access to the money all year long, they will get MORE money - and they can STILL get it in a lump sum if they want it - and MORE of it! Or for an even better return they can use the extra to pay down their credit cards. Or even their mortgage... but then they complain that they'll lose some of their mortgage interest deduction.?! Okay... that's true for this year, but they don't seem to understand or care that doing so means they can chop years off their mortgage that way.

      I realize it's a systems kind of thing where people get the reward of bad decisions now but due to delays inherent in the system, they don't have to pay the consequences until later. At which point, too much time has passed and they don't truly associate the bad choices in the past with the bad consequences of the future.

      So, a simple thing like adjusting your withholding can help quite a bit. I actually take it to the extreme. My salary is pretty much fixed over the course of a year. $1.00 that I earn in January is worth more, due to inflation, than $1.00 in the next December. So, at the beginning of the year, I claim 10 deductions and have virtually no tax money taken out. At the same time, I max out the money going into my 401K. Every couple of months, I adjust the numbers so that more goes into taxes and less goes into the 401K. Over the course of the year, I end up paying the same amount of money into my 401K and Taxes as if I had left them level. BUT, the extra money going into the 401K is earning money for me right away - and for more of the year. There's no penalty (interest paid or interest lost) by pushing the tax payments to the end of the year. I also end up nearly even on my taxes... I paid $70 to federal this year and got back $120 on my state - but money was in my 401K for a longer period of time.

      Now if I were willing to accept more risk (of losing my job, mostly), I'd actually balance it so I owed $1000 on each of my taxes. Below that threshold, there is no penalty or interest. So essentially I would get a free loan of that $2000 from the point I accumulate that much tax-due until April 15th the next year.

      Anyway, I've resorted to laughing at people who will refinance to have spending money and to "keep" their interest deduction or who prefer to let the government keep huge "lump sums" of money because they seem impossible to educate and get defensive about their poor decisions. Spitting would be going too far.

  3. Stupid question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    but why don't the US use Pay As You Earn, like the UK do? Surely it's easier for everyone, including the taxman?

    1. Re:Stupid question... by istartedi · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've often wondered that too. I asked a Russian co-worker about it though, and he said his experience with foreign systems that only use a payroll tax, is that they are much more likely to be corrupt. Since there's a lower compliance rate, they have to have a higher tax. I don't really buy into that though. I'd much rather just have the payroll tax and be done with it, as long as I can't be held personally liable for failing to pay it. If it's just a payroll tax, then who is liable though? It can't be the person who runs payroll. Those jobs don't pay very much, and people won't run the risk of personal bankruptcy for failing to carry a decimal. If the corporation or company is liable, then it's much harder to pin blame on a person. The corporation or company just goes bankrupt, so I think my Russian co-worker had a good point.

      Historicly, taxes in the US were collected from individuals. I've been told that payroll deductions, called "witholding" here, were an emergency measure adopted because they needed funds during WWII. After the war, witholding continued. Some have actually argued that we get rid of witholding due to its history as a WWII emergency measure. It also feeds into some conspiracy theories regarding the "continual state of war" in the US. Anyway, the US is, in some sense, "pay as you earn", it's just that you have to file to reconcile the difference between what you've paid and what you actually owe.

      What you owe can be less due to deductions (e.g., charity, marital status, etc.). Over the years, the US has used the tax code for social engineering. Those deductions are popular, entrenched, and backed by powerful lobbies and interests who have a lot to gain from the tax code as it stands. If I had to give a one-word answer to your question it would be:

      Inertia.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  4. A good year for open source and taxes... by passion4 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So far this has been a great year for open source and taxes in general it seems.

    This company also released there entire Payroll, Time and Attendance suite as open source. So employers like myself can pay their employees and easily take care of all their payroll related taxes such as W2/W3's, 940/941's, 1099's and state taxes for free.

    1. Re:A good year for open source and taxes... by passion4 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You must have missed the multiple DOWNLOAD links on their site that point to sourceforge. When you download it, you are downloading the source code, which you are also free to re-distribute.

      If thats not open source, I'm not sure what is.

    2. Re:A good year for open source and taxes... by nick.ian.k · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sincerest apologies for the gross oversight. I didn't realize the download was from Sourceforge and instead relied on the sheer lack of mentions of the source code availability one would expect. An honest mistake, but slightly belligerent as well. I admit I was wrong and I am sorry.

  5. Re:A step in the right direction, I think. by darthpenguin · · Score: 5, Informative

    Government support is unlikely, according to this excerpt from the FAQ:
    -----
    6. Why can't I e-file with this program?

    Because of the lack of cooperation of the IRS and the API. When I wrote to the IRS regarding this, I received the following reply:

    Thank you for your inquiry.

    The government believes that private industry, given its established expertise and experience in the field of electronic tax preparation, has a proven track record in providing the best technology and services available. In addition, the government believes a partnership with private industry will: provide taxpayers with higher quality services by using the existing expertise of the private sector; maximize consumer choice; promote competition within the marketplace; and meet objectives in the least costly manner to taxpayers.

    We hope the above information will prove helpful to you.

    Sincerely,
    The IRS Website Support Team

    I suspect that there will either need to be an outcry, or we will need to present this project as a corporation of sorts for cooperation from the IRS. For more info, see the previous FAQ entry.
    -----

  6. When we talk open source... by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    On open source, we talk on how we can defer judgment and help from one corporation to anybody we wish. Using MS products means we're at the mercy of MS for proper fixes.

    Using an open source kit gives us the ability to find whomever we need to fix it, and not the ordained "fixer". This isnt a slam at MS, but instead is towards the whole proprietary software community.

    However, when it comes to taxes and associated penalties, having a company to blame is one of the best recourses one can have. Of course, the IRS can do whatever the hell they want for taxes, but suing the preparer for incompetence is of the utmost importance. Lesser yet, are companies who offer guarantees on their fitness of returns.

    I wouldnt trade the ability to point fingers for "free software".

    --
  7. April 18 by ballmerfud · · Score: 5, Funny
    Subject : [TAX GEEK] Announce
    Date: April 18, 2007

    We are pleased to announce our latest update of Tax Geek, which fixes a critical off-by-one error in the previous release, which could in some cases lead to (severe) inaccuracies. Please update your current version ASAP. As always, if you find any additional errors, please submit bug reports (and preferably patches) on Source Forge, and Joe will look into when he gets home from class.

    The Tax Geek Team
    --
    http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/User:Steve_Ballmer
  8. No Warranty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, lot's of folks here are making a fuss, saying these folks offer
    no Warranty, and don't check the accuracy.

    Well, guess what NEITHER DOES CLOSED SOURCE.

    Your $49.99 QuickTax/EasyTax, whatever doesn't come with a warranty either, besides one on the MEDIA.

    If it screws up, guess what, it's YOU who owes the IRS money. The developers are held harmless, because they are simple developers. They are not tax law experts.

    Same thing happens when you take your taxes to H&R block. The best 'guarentee' they offer is your money back.

    Now if you went to an accountant, or a CA, CCA, etc, They can be held partially accountable.

    If you ask me, we need real engineers designing complex software like tax programs, not simple programmers or developers. Stand behind the work, and put your professional licence behind it.

    Other wise, might as well use quicktax, and cross your fingers.

  9. Re:A step in the right direction, I think. by Ayal.Rosenthal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I admire your optimism. However, I don't think that the government will embrace open-source software because the IRS doesn't make any of its own decisions - lobbysits do. For example, the IRS is asking tax lawyers and accountants who create tax shelters and exploit loopholes to take the lead in writing some of its new tax rules. Similarly, the IRS asks companies who generate sales through IRS software to help decide best practices. Open source will likely be better in a couple of years than anything than other products on the market, but the government probably still won't support it. Regards, Ayal Rosenthal

    --
    Social liberal, fiscal conservative, always sarcastic.
  10. Comparison with Brazil by synthespian · · Score: 4, Informative

    Some of you might find it interesting to compare the US situation with other countries (comparisons are always nice for parameters)...
    Brazil's equivalent of the IRS (Receita Federal) offers its version for federal income tax software for download for Windows, Linux, Macintosh and jar files for any other OS Yes, they use Java. It makes sense.
    http://www.receita.gov.br/PessoaFisica/ReceitaNet/ RecnetJava.htm

    --
    Main difference between the BSD license and the GPL license: one is from California and the other is from Massachusetts
  11. FreeFile; Public vs. Private by Noksagt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    by snail mail, which is free.

    Sign me up for whatever free postage system you have. Especially if it comes with delivery confirmation, etc. that the conscientious will purchase.

    Or electronically, which requires you to buy an accredited program in order to generate the e-forms
    70% of taxpayers qualify for free file, which allows them to e-file after using free (as in beer) online tax software. Yes, this percentage should be higher. Yes, anyone should be permitted to create tax preparation software, including open source software, which could e-file. But, it is hardly extortion.

    Given the resources at the disposal of the Government, why couldn't they just build a website similar to the ones online tax programs use for data entry and obvious computations (adding columns, tax brackets, etc.). I don't care if the results are not automatically optimized, but at least, you could *fill* the tax forms online and submit the e-forms without the fees required by proprietary programs. IMHO, that should be a basic IRS service.
    I actually agree with the IRS--tax software should be in the private sector, not the public sector (government monopolies suck). But there's no reason not to open this up for ALL entrants, rather than granting an oligopoly.
    1. Re:FreeFile; Public vs. Private by niiler · · Score: 4, Informative

      As the author of this program I want to reply to a couple of comments in this thread.

      First regarding the issue of free-file: AARP will free file for you no matter what your age or income level. At least this is how it has been presented to me by volunteers for the organization. This is noted on the TaxGeek website.

      Second, regarding the coding of the US income tax forms, I agree that the tax code ought to be in computer code perhaps even written into the fillable PDF forms the IRS provides. This would be the most concise way to do it to ensure no mistakes are made. However, H&R Block, TurboTax and others feel that this is the government competing against private industry, and therefore, it won't happen.

      Regarding this last point, I suspect that when TaxGeek actually becomes competitive with "real" tax programs, we will start having issues with the big companies who will feel that it is unfair that someone is providing software to the public for free (nevermind that it isn't the government). Imagine that our near term idea-list is completed. Specifically that we completely finish the 1040, can write to pdf using XUL-Javascript, and create an interview frontend. Should this happen, TaxGeek becomes platform independent and usable by a wider audience. Presuming that we have thousands of ./ers sending bug reports, TaxGeek may even be more reliable than some commercial products. (I know, in my dreams...)

      Finally, regarding liability please see the following IRS publications:


      * "Revenue Ruling 85-189: Return preparers; sale of computer program. A person who prepares a computer program and sells it to a taxpayer to use in preparing the tax-payer's income tax return may be an income tax return preparer." Internal Revenue Cumulative Bulletin, volume 1985-2, p. 341.
      * "IRS announces that companies who sell return preparation computer software and programs may be considered return preparers subject to penalties." I.R.S. News Release, IR-86-92 (May 6, 1986).
      Essentially, the fact that there is a dire warning regarding the software's abilities, and that the software is being given away offer protection to the developers (who are normally more protected than their CPA masters in the IRS standards of practice anyhow). The articles mentioned above don't even guarantee the company's liability in the case of mistake. They only say that the company may be liable under certain conditions. In short our line on it is that you didn't pay any money for this, you were warned about the software's status, and any mistakes are your responsibility, not ours. Also, we try to fix bugs that are reported to us in a timely manner which is also a developer's responsibility according to the IRS.
  12. Not entirely true by mgkimsal2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I had taxes done at HRBlock last year. I normally do them myself, but between multiple employers, multiple home sales, multiple streams of income (consulting, wife's business), and having lived in 3 states, I wanted someone with more experience to take care of things. They offered a 'peace of mind' program for an extra $39 to cover mistakes up to $5000. I took it, and actually had chance to use it. I missed this, but so did they - no schedule D was filed at all. Just an oversight, but it was an extra $400+ in taxes I owed. HRBlock redid all the amended paperwork in a week, I paid the taxes, and they cut me a check to reimburse me a week later. If/when I get an interest/penalties letter, HRBlock will cut a check for that as well. While I don't normally use a service like that, they *do* offer some degree of protection. True it's at an extra cost, but when you're talking about potentially thousands in taxes/penalties, being able to get any sort of insurance is probably worth it.

    --
    creation science book
  13. Spread Sheet Alternative by ginlorax · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not quite open source. But free as in beer.

    I've been using this guy's spread sheet for the past three years. Labled as 'Excel' but I've actually used it in Open Office. Prints nice.

    http://home.mchsi.com/~taxcalculator/

    This year I should donate a few dollars to his paypal account. If I get a refund of course.

  14. Open Office tax form spreadsheet by amightywind · · Score: 3, Informative

    I shouldn't do this. But please give the guy some cash. It is extremely useful, and works with OpenOffice. My taxes were fairly complex and they came out perfectly. Maybe you can help out and make an even better version.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
  15. Re:Because... by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is like saying that plants won't work because they 'require' the sun. If an online program works, and prints to paper, it is sufficient, and 'cross platform'.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.