Slashdot Mirror


Subliminal Messages Might Actually Work

GrumpySimon writes "New research indicates that subliminal messages may actually work. In a paper titled Attentional Load Modulates Responses of Human Primary Visual Cortex to Invisible Stimuli, Bahrani et al. demonstrate that even though stimuli may not be available to consciousness, they are processed by the visual cortex. While I'm sure that marketing agencies all over the world are rubbing their hands in glee at this news, the authors report that there's no evidence that this can make people buy things against their will. So with any luck the use of subliminal messages in advertising will remain an urban legend."

172 comments

  1. Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... subliminal messages in ads work, but you hope they'll remain an urban legend?

    Yea, good luck with that.

  2. Television by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can garauntee that they don't work well in television. At least, not on me. Because, even if they're only 1 frame, I can see them at 24fps. And it greatly annoys me when things flicker on the screen. I might not be able to tell what's flickering there (depending on the complexity of the image), but I promise you I will find out (record, pause, learn). And when I do, and it's some total BS thought up by some ad company, I can further promise you I will be purposefully not buying their product.

    Nope, stick with good old quality writing and you'll get my interest. Then I'll at least look into your product and consider buying it. Otherwise, good luck.

    TLF

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    1. Re:Television by bheer · · Score: 4, Funny

      I agree with you, drink slimeball marketing tactics only piss of consumers.
      There are many more enviga honest ways to sell wares.

    2. Re:Television by Eternauta3k · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nope, stick with good old quality writing and you'll get my interest. Then I'll at least look into your product and consider buying it. Otherwise, good luck.
      I agree. Sure, some argue any kind of marketing is manipulating the customer, but companies should stick to making their product known. Manipulating people is, in my opinion, shifting them from the best product (price/quality ratio) to the one with the best advertisements. That way, money is wasted both by the consumers and by the companies (which ultimately charge it to their clients).
      --
      Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
    3. Re:Television by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1

      ROFL.

      That reminds me of the SNL skit Kevin Neilan (sp?) did..

      "I was thinking we could go out for some hotsex dinner and then maybe later a movie..."

      Well, it went something like that anyway. Damned good.

      TLF

      --
      I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    4. Re:Television by DigitAl56K · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can garauntee that they don't work well in television. At least, not on me. Because, even if they're only 1 frame, I can see them at 24fps.

      Sure, but what happens when you start blending images, i.e. instead of flashing a message or product image briefly on the screen, subtly adjust the existing image so that you can still perceive the message, but no flashing occurs.

      Anyway, as much as I hate subliminal messaging, I would rather put up with that than have Billy Mays yelling at me to buy OxyClean, OrangeGlo, the Hercules Hook, or whatever else he's pushing. When questioned about the topic, Billy is alleged to have screamed out, "SUBLIMINAL MESSAGING: ORDER YOURS TODAY!".

    5. Re:Television by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      Have you met the 16 th amendment dude? You two would get along great.

    6. Re:Television by venicebeach · · Score: 1

      Well it should be noted that the experimental technique used in this article cannot be done with a standard televison, since it requires input to each eye to be controlled separately. They used continuous flash suppression, where an image presented to one eye is suppressed by flashing another image in the other eye.

    7. Re:Television by Andrew+Kismet · · Score: 1

      I prefer Barry Scott...

      DO YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH LIMESCALE, RUST, AND GROUND-IN DIRT? THEY'RE A CHALLENGE, BUT NOT, FOR CILLIT BANG!!

      ((y'know, the lameness filter is useful sometimes, but it's bloody annoying when you're legitimately trying to convey shouting))

    8. Re:Television by Pc_Madness · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought flashing hidden messages was illegal in most countries? I thought it was in Australia atleast.

    9. Re:Television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You and your super fast eyes are so cool!

    10. Re:Television by Jartan · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can garauntee that they don't work well in television. At least, not on me. Because, even if they're only 1 frame, I can see them at 24fps.


      TV is not 24 fps. It's 60 fps interlaced. Slashdot needs a -1 "my eyeballs/ears are amazing" tag I think.
    11. Re:Television by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Doesn't that depend on your region? I think NTSC runs at 24 fps, while PAL (or somewhere else) runs at 60fps.

      Or I could have them reversed, but you get the basic point.

    12. Re:Television by omeomi · · Score: 1

      I can garauntee that they don't work well in television. At least, not on me. Because, even if they're only 1 frame, I can see them at 24fps.

      Why does "subliminal" have to be visual? Music affects the mood/emotions of a viewer in a way that isn't fully conscious. Probably quite a bit better than flashing single frames of food or whatever on the screen...

      And even if it is visual, why does it have to be the single-frame thing? Product placement works somewhat subliminally, doesn't it? Most people aren't really all that aware when they see someone in a movie drinking a Coke, because you see people drinking Coke all the time. So, you're not consciously thinking about it, but it's there, and clearly it has some effect on consumers because advertisers are willing to pay to place their objects in movies/TV...

    13. Re:Television by deevnil · · Score: 1

      ...companies should stick to making their product known.

      They might even want to consider making their product known for it's quality or taste, etc. instead of making stuff cheaper to fund marketing campaigns and research.

    14. Re:Television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you can't see the fnord, it can't eat you.

    15. Re:Television by mrbluze · · Score: 1

      Doesn't have to be annoying, even at 24 or 30fps (depending on the system), as the message can be a watermark or some other such thing.

      Furthermore, it doesn't follow to say they don't work just because they are noticed, since advertisements and suggestions come in many forms, such as the labels on objects used in films, such as cars or watches and foodstuffs in kitchens.

      What works is name recognition. You may not be in the market for the name-brand, but when you eventually are (such as for nappies for your kids, or for a new car when the old one's had it, or whatever), all those flash-cards you saw without taking notice have etched themselves into your neural networks, and will spring to mind when the moment is right.

      Just how much can be achieved using subliminal messages is debatable and depends on suggestiveness and suggestability of the viewer/listener. Once, however, an emotional connection has been formed with the object being viewed, many other doors to the mind open.

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    16. Re:Television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NTSC runs at 59.94 interlaced (29.97 deinterlaced). ATSC runs at 60/30 and has an optional 24 fps mode. PAL runs at 50/25.

      You're thinking of film, which runs at 24 FPS, and is the reason for the ATSC 24 fps mode.

    17. Re:Television by zoney_ie · · Score: 1

      50fps here in Europe which is a bit handier for transferring films to TV. We just speed them up; so you don't get the nasty jaggies on TV frames containing an interlacing of two film frames. The audio pitch is different of course; this is either compensated for or not noticed.

      And best of all, you can get through the extended edition of the Lord of the Rings slightly faster :)

      So there you are, sounds like an urban legend, but even uncut film running times are shorter on European TV!

      It's a shame you guys are stuck with the 24fps->30fps (half of 60Hz) problem even with HDTV, no wonder people aren't as hot on the idea of 1080i in the US! Fix your electricity supply!

      --
      -- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
    18. Re:Television by stunt_penguin · · Score: 1

      Those ads are a different form of advertising altogether- I think advertisers are now trying to make some ads as bad as possible just to get attention. Why spend a million on a great piece of marketing when you can create something shockingly bad and make an impression. Cillit Bang even makes it on to b3ta.com - consider my effort :D :

      http://www.chrisdidthis.com/b3ta/BANG-170.gif

      --
      When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
    19. Re:Television by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      It's a shame you guys are stuck with the 24fps->30fps (half of 60Hz) problem even with HDTV, no wonder people aren't as hot on the idea of 1080i in the US! Fix your electricity supply! As another poster noted, ATSC (our HDTV system) has a 24fps mode specifically tailored for film. So I suggest to you stop slaving your fps to the frequency of your AC mains!
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    20. Re:Television by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The "should"s of it aside, it's a little disappointing that no one is asking the difficult question: is subliminal communication protected speech? Could it get to a point that it doesn't qualify as a legitimate form of protected speech?

      There is a kind of fiction which is very central to our notions of freedom and rationality: that there is a world of deliberative thoughts and ideas, where we rationally evaluate things and discuss them, where ideas are free, and there's the world of bodies and emotions and material stuff, where I don't have the right to hit you or take your stuff or threaten you. Subliminal marketing blurs this distinction by working at the intersection of the two.

    21. Re:Television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      59.94 frames per second, actually (29.97 images / second). This is for NTSC. PAL is 25 images (50 frames) per second.

    22. Re:Television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Subliminal ads have been used to decades in Alcohol ads in magazines. Obviously, they work. The people who don't believe they work also don't believe in Global Warming - the skeptics that will always be missing out on something they don't believe in.

    23. Re:Television by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > TV is not 24 fps. It's 60 fps interlaced. Slashdot needs a -1 "my eyeballs/ears are
      > amazing" tag I think.

      Depends on the country. 60fps interlaced is really only 30fps, with each frame taking two passes to 'build', isn't it?

    24. Re:Television by Tiger4 · · Score: 1

      So if, for example, Coors paid to place a Budweiser ad into your favorite program, and you found it and boycotted Bud as a result ... Profit!

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    25. Re:Television by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Occasionally I have an intensely negative reaction to some TV ad, even tho the ad is not overtly obnoxious or even particularly dislikeable. I've long suspected that I'm having a subconscious reaction to subliminal content.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    26. Re:Television by C0R1D4N · · Score: 1

      Hey I don't think I'd mind if I could watch tv without actually having to consciously watch the commercials (not that I really pay attention to them anyway)

  3. "Buy things against their will" by catbutt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What does that even mean?

    Just plain old advertising could be said to make people "buy things against their will", if it tips the balance from "slightly inclined to not purchase" to "slightly inclined to purchase".

    Speaking in such black and white terms is misleading.

    1. Re:"Buy things against their will" by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was flabbergasted to find that bathing with Axe body didn't bring in the babes. I even told them they love me. But I guess I got a bad batch or something because they just ran away. Fast.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    2. Re:"Buy things against their will" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the difference being print advertising appeals to the conscious mind, subliminal tv advertising targets the unconscious mind. Wait, remember the subliminal messages in coke PRINT ads? http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/cokesubliminal. html

    3. Re:"Buy things against their will" by catbutt · · Score: 1

      the difference being print advertising appeals to the conscious mind, subliminal tv advertising targets the unconscious mind Well, print or tv, my point was neither for nor against subliminal advertising.

      It is simply that we can discuss it more reasonably if you don't try to look at something that is inherently a "shades of gray" issue as a black and white one.

      Most advertising, I'd guess, tries to use subtle psychological "tricks" to try to influence you to buy the product. What if they use shades of yellow and orange, because some study says that those colors connote trust? Or whatever. Is that subliminal? I don't think so, but it might be said to be influencing you without you knowing why you are influenced.
    4. Re:"Buy things against their will" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I was flabbergasted to find that bathing with Axe body didn't bring in the babes.
      Check the manufacture number on top; if it begins with "2111" it's a bad batch.

      Also it's peanut butter.
    5. Re:"Buy things against their will" by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      Besides, the whole discussion about subliminal messages and stuff always revolves around the assumption that the only conceivable objective for the broadcasting of such messages is to increase sales of the product. While not necessarily subscribing to people seeing a conspiracy, the syllogism "subliminal messages appear in ads, they do not cause more sale of the products, ergo they are not influential" always looked preposterous to me.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    6. Re:"Buy things against their will" by macbigot · · Score: 1

      Strange -- it works for me exactly as advertised. Did you try washing _from_head_to_toe_ with it, or just the parts that you thought mattered?

      --
      Just another veteran of the platform wars. It's a great time to be a fan of tech.
    7. Re:"Buy things against their will" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in product advertising, doing this is kind of the point. With or without subliminals if they really really do work ads are crafted to make you feel nice about the brand.
      If this was used in newslets it might be a different ethical ground.

  4. Oblig. Simpsons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    !yvaN eht nioJ

    1. Re:Oblig. Simpsons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey you! Join the Navy!

  5. Mr Subliminal - SNL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    [ Ted walks into a bar with Mr. Subliminal ]
    Mr. Subliminal: Two beers, please.
    Ted: I just can't get the hang of it..
    Mr. Subliminal: That's because it's new to you. Believe me, Ted, subliminal advertising can be very, very effective.
    Bartender: Alright, gentlemen, here's your beers.
    Mr. Subliminal: Thanks, partner - on the house - that was quick - on the house - what do we owe you?
    Bartender: Uh.. forget about it - on the house!
    Mr. Subliminal: Oh? Thank you very much! Hey.. you know something - free cash - this is a real classy place - free cash - first time we've been here.
    Bartender: Oh, I'm glad you like it. I've been working here for years.
    Mr. Subliminal: Oh, no kidding- free cash - that's great!
    Bartender: [ opens cash register and drops cash on the counter ] Here ya go.
    Mr. Subliminal: What's this for?
    Bartender: It's free cash, take it.
    Ted: [ chuckles ] This is a real nice place!
    Mr. Subliminal: No, really - free cash - we can't take this - your wallet - I mean, what would we do with it?
    Bartender: Well, don't be ridiculous! [ drops his wallet on the counter ] Here, you take my wallet, you can put it in there!
    Mr. Subliminal: Well, okay, if you insist! [ takes wallet, turns to Ted ] You see?
    Ted: See what?
    Mr. Subliminal: [ spots an attractive Woman on the next barstool ] Hi! Come here often?
    Woman: [ laughs ] Oh, come on. That's the oldest line in the book.
    Mr. Subliminal: Hey, sorry if I was out of line - lonely - I just thought that you might - lonely - you know, like to talk.
    Woman: Well.. I am feeling a little.. lonely. It's just that I'm so sick and tired of guys hitting on me all the time, you know?
    Mr. Subliminal: Oh, believe me - hot sex - I'm not hitting on you - hot sex - I just can, you know, understand that lonely feeling!
    Woman: [ nods ] You do, don't you?
    Mr. Subliminal: Sure do.
    Woman: You seem like a very sensitive man.
    Mr. Subliminal: Well..
    Woman: And.. sexy, too! [ giggles ]
    Mr. Subliminal: [ turns and whispers to Ted ] You gonna get the hang of it?
    Ted: Uh.. yeah..
    Mr. Subliminal: [ to Woman ] The name's Phil, Phil Maloney - kiss me - and it's a real plasure meeting you - kiss me - a real pleasure!
    Woman: [ quickly jumps in and kisses him ]
    Mr. Subliminal: [ catches his breath ] What was that for - your place - I mean, that was nice - your place - I mean, and you are..?
    Woman: I'm Wanda! What do you say we go to my place?
    Mr. Subliminal: Oh, great!
    Woman: It's a five-story walk-up, I hope you don't mind..
    Mr. Subliminal: Mind? - hotel - No, I don't mind - luxury hotel - maybe I'll lose some weight - your treat - [ laughs ].
    Woman: Better yet - how about we go away to a luxury hotel - I'll pay! How about that?
    Mr. Subliminal: Great idea - horny - there's one right around the corner - handcuffs - let's go!
    Woman: Okay, let's go!
    Mr. Subliminal: Okay, then - spank me - let's go1
    [ they rush out of the bar ]
    [ a beautiful woman sits next to Ted ]
    Ted: Ahhhhh, yeah, I think I'm beginning to see.. [ notices the woman next to him ] Yeah..
    Policeman: [ enters bar ] Alright! Who owns the white volvo out front?
    Ted: Uh.. that's mine, Officer. Is there a problem?
    Policeman: Yeah, it's a $50 problem. You parked in front of a fire hydrant. Let me see your license.

    Ted: Uh.. oh, yeah, sure, Officer.. Uh.. to be honest, Officer - HOT SEX! - I didn't see the hydrant - TIE ME UP! - it was dark.

    Policeman: What did you say?

    Ted: I said - HOT SEX! - I didn't see the hydrant - SPANK ME! - it was dark.

    Policeman: Hot sex? Spank me? Alright, pervert, come on, you're going downtown! [ drags Ted away ]

    Ted: Uh, no, Officer, please - KISS ME! Officer, no - KISS ME! Officer, no - HORNY! Please - YOUR PLACE! Officer..

    [ fade out ]

    1. Re:Mr Subliminal - SNL by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1

      Bahah thank you, I was looking for that in a earlier post. Awesome.

      TLF

      --
      I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
  6. Nah by istartedi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nah, I don't see how that could be. However, this article was unusually good for some reason. I think I'm going to subscribe to Slashdot.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  7. Photoreading by bennyp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Reminds me of "Photoreading"... the concept is that by relaxing the gaze and not looking at any one word, but the whole page, one is capable of absorbing books at a rate of 1 page per second. The pages are stored in the mind somewhere, then through a series of activities, one brings up the info into consciousness. Unfortunately, rather than go the scientific way, the inventor has chosen to market it as a self-help course. Weird!

    --
    could it be?
    1. Re:Photoreading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are marketing it like that because it doesn't work :)

      Considering the focal distance, size of a typical page, and the fact that outside of our foveal vision (the point at which our cones are concentrated) our vision becomes very fuzzy (ie. peripheral vision), it seems highly doubtful that anyone would be capable of discerning actual text from an entire page at once.
      From rough memory, I think that at each point our eyes stop while reading we only see a few words with any accuracy, and our eyes stop almost constantly as we read, even including jumping back over single words two or three times.

      Not to mention, it doesn't take into account the way our brain processes information, or stores it as memory.
      Photoreading just seems like wishful thinking and poor psuedoscience - trust me, if it was true then we would see it used to teach reading to everyone.

    2. Re:Photoreading by Brickwall · · Score: 2, Informative
      From rough memory, I think that at each point our eyes stop while reading we only see a few words with any accuracy, and our eyes stop almost constantly as we read, even including jumping back over single words two or three times.

      Well, only if you've been poorly trained. If you've ever looked at increasing your reading speed, the techniques most recommended are training your eyes to take in larger chunks (i.e. wider) of text at each time, and to move down the page constantly. I took an Evelyn Wood course at 8 or 9 years old, and increased my reading speed to over 400 words per minute (the average adult reads about 100-150 wpm), while still maintaining high comprehension scores. Now that's when I'm trying to absorb information which I basically understand, like history, fiction, or literature. If I'm reading a text on SQL programming, I have to slow down to make sure I understand how the code works.

      --
      What was once true, is no longer so
    3. Re:Photoreading by Fission86 · · Score: 1

      that's intresting, i never knew this had a name, but this is how i've been studying for the extent of my college career.

      --
      Coming to you live from another dimension.
    4. Re:Photoreading by bennyp · · Score: 1

      I did a light scan of their site. They have a forum which seems to be packed with successful and a few unsuccessful stories. This proves nothing, as they could easily have faked it for our benefit, but I have seen the term referenced from one or two outside sources (http://www.lucidblog.com/how-to-control-your-drea m/) I'm skeptical, but I'm not dismissing the possibility that it works.

      --
      could it be?
    5. Re:Photoreading by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      That's because "speed reading" takes advantage of the natural redundancy of human language. You can still "gist" the content even if you lose half the detail. You're technically still reading at about 100-150wpm--- you're just skipping 200-odd wpm worth of "superfluous" content. Like you say, if the "devil is in the details", such as a book on SQL, you gotta slow down! Great for college assigned reading, but I find it to be a deeply unsatisfying way to read. I actually like reading.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    6. Re:Photoreading by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      increased my reading speed to over 400 words per minute (the average adult reads about 100-150 wpm), while still maintaining high comprehension scores. It's been so long since I actually paid attention to this stuff that I didn't initially notice your numbers there. Actual "average" reading speed is about 200wpm. 100wpm would be considered "slow". 400wpm is actually about the average normal reading speed of a college grad--- that's about the speed I read a book for fun. If you're not getting up to the 600-700wpm range with Evelyn Wood, something's wrong.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    7. Re:Photoreading by Reziac · · Score: 1

      My comfortable reading speed is about 800wpm, and has been since I was a kid. I suspect it has a lot to do with learning to read at a very early age, plus a great deal of practice (I also read for fun), so for me reading is natural and efficient. I don't skip words at that speed, either (as evidenced by that I'm a very good proofreader... now watch me leave some weird typo in this post :)

      In high school, I taught myself to do a sort of diagonal scan to rip the necessary stuff from boring texts. It was good enough to get a B on material I'd not otherwise studied, tho probably tended to be weak on snagging detail. I can also read by randomly jumping around the page, tho ultimately I don't skip any words when I do that; it's more like picking up spilled rice -- a scoop here, a grain there, til I get them all... I think I learned that technique in Latin class. :)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  8. please don't READ THIS COMMENT by waynemcdougall · · Score: 5, Funny

    SO what the article is saying is that attentional load
    MODulates attentional responses to
    MEssage that are carrying an embedded message. I will not put
    UP with these shenanigans that are calcualated to
    INCITE us make a
    FOOL of ourselves.

    --
    Recycle PCs and build a wireless community network www.hillsborough.org.nz
    1. Re: please don't READ THIS COMMENT by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Funny

      SO what the article is saying is that attentional load
      MODulates attentional responses to
      MEssage that are carrying an embedded message. I will not put
      UP with these shenanigans that are calcualated to
      INCITE us make a
      FOOL of ourselves.
      Funny, after reading that I got an irresistable urge to run out and buy some SMMUIF.
      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:please don't READ THIS COMMENT by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      I get this weird urge to mod you "Foolish", but I don't have mod points and that option doesn't even exist. WTF?

  9. "Subliminal Messages Might Actually Work" by Black+Parrot · · Score: 3, Funny

    How come this article gets 5% shorter when I turn on my browser's ad filter?

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  10. Subliminal messages are everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everything you read, watch, consume has elements to it that only get picked up by the parts of your brain that act below regular consciousness. You can see it in the writing style of legal briefs written by the best legal scholars. The best television commercials do exactly this. The word unspoken, the context shift, the interplay of familiar elements to yield one result. The sublime is the everyday when multinational corporations can pay billions to change your mind by whatever means works best. This tends to be below your guard. And your mind is changed.

    1. Re:Subliminal messages are everywhere by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Yeah really, just watch those natural male enhancement ads. Many tall objects when they are talking about the benefits and a lot of drooping hoses when they talk about how the neighbors are now envious of his natural male enhancement.

    2. Re:Subliminal messages are everywhere by Falladir · · Score: 1

      Frequently in fully produced (not filmed-on-the-lot-of-the-used-car-dealership) television commercials there will be an awkward sentence with strange asymmetry or lack of parallelism. I wonder how many people notice it, and what the intended effect could be.

      The more obvious instances of linguistic trickery becomes cliche once they get made fun of enough (think of the part of a prescription drug commercial where they talk about the symptoms in a soothing voice as though this information should set us at ease).

      One commercial that got plenty of airtime in my area was for a drug "with a low risk of sexual side effects," (presumably it competes with a drug that has a higher risk), and rather than deliver the sentence straight: "with a LOW risk of sexual side effects," the narrator delivered it as though the risk were a feature that other drugs lacked: "with a low RISK of sexual side effects."

      Human language shouldn't be abused in this cynical fashion. I'd love to see legislation that gave regulators more control over the inflection used in advertising voice-overs.

    3. Re:Subliminal messages are everywhere by Zovistograt · · Score: 1

      I know it was done already. A few decades ago, Mars Company made a subliminal message to buy M&M's in a movie theater. It worked, and that caused the government to pass a law banning subliminal ads.

  11. Hold it... by 20th+Century+Boy · · Score: 5, Funny

    hanG on there folks, I haVe my doubts ovEr such claiMs, howEver Mildly innOceNt thEY seem.

    1. Re:Hold it... by maxume · · Score: 1

      Plenty of people are nodding in agreement with you comment, not to your benefit, but because you have given their own greed a pat on the back.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Hold it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many Of us have Doubts, however Please just give the ARticlE a chaNce before you Talk baDly abOut it With impudeNce...

    3. Re:Hold it... by LordEd · · Score: 1

      Nobody here has created a good example of a subliminal message. Often the slashdot normal joke is to simply capitalize or bold the letters. My theory is that a properly subliminal message should not be easy to read. Obviously, blatantly placing capitalized letters or bold letters where they aren't appropriate will be noticed. Now, if you typed ordinary sentences and use capitals correctly (such as capitalizing beginning of sentences or proper nouns), you can make your message less obvious. Each proper sentence starts with a capital letter, after all. You can also cheat by using a name at some point (Fred, for example), or even capitalize a small word under the pretense of emphasis (do something *OR* suffer a violent death). Your message is supposed to be picked up by the subconscious, not by somebody looking for the message. Only by hiding it carefully will it not be noticed. Unfortunately, a cleverly disguised message will probably not be modded up by moderators.

    4. Re:Hold it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geez, talk about BEATING A DEAD HORSE.

      Whoops, I guess that was superliminal.

  12. Woo. Hoo. by susano_otter · · Score: 1

    So visual stimuli are processed by the visual cortex?

    Groundbreaking science! Good work, gentlemen!

    Now all we have to do is show that images glimpsed for a fraction of a second have more effect than images viewed for noticeable lengths of time, and we'll know for sure! Subliminal advertising ahoy!

    --

    Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

    1. Re:Woo. Hoo. by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      You don't need to prove it works better then traditional advertising, only that it does work.

    2. Re:Woo. Hoo. by susano_otter · · Score: 1

      Hrm. Good point. People might walk around with Coca-Cola on their mind, and not even be aware they'd been exposed to any Coca-Cola advertising...

      --

      Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.

  13. Non-issue by Barny · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In the states at least, since the FCC have http://web.archive.org/web/20060503194404/www.para scope.com/articles/0497/sublimdc.htm already made their stance on this to broadcasting networks.

    I think I read somewhere that the UN had a similar knee-jerk to it back then too and said the same, anyone got a link to it?

    --
    ...
    /me sighs
  14. movie name by anagama · · Score: 1

    What was that movie about subliminal advertising and the guns that caused people to black out for hours?

    --
    What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    1. Re:movie name by Marko+DeBeeste · · Score: 1

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/ It was 15 minutes of retrograde amnesia

      --
      Faith: n. -- That human impulse that drives them to steal appliances when the power goes out
    2. Re:movie name by GrumpySimon · · Score: 1

      What was that movie about subliminal advertising and the guns that caused people to black out for hours?

      "Legally Blonde 2"

    3. Re:movie name by bmo · · Score: 1

      "What was that movie about subliminal advertising and the guns that caused people to black out for hours?"

      "Looker"

      Get to see Susan Dey nakkid.

      --
      BMO

  15. Now /. is resorting to posting BS? by The+Real+Toad+King · · Score: 2, Funny

    Whatever, I'm going out to buy some popcorn.

  16. So they work, eh? by zCyl · · Score: 4, Funny

    They rally you like industrial ninjas use xeroxes.

    1. Re:So they work, eh? by AtrN · · Score: 1

      I couldn't find any useful contribution, of any kind, in that statement. Or maybe I was floundering try to focus on the hidden message?

    2. Re:So they work, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just one is not too hard enough. Going nicer always accomplishes more.

  17. My summary by venicebeach · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well I just read the article and it appears that the main point of this paper is that attention affects the processing of unconscious, invisible visual stimuli.

    What they did was to have a task in central vision that was either easy (not requiring much attention) or hard (requiring lots of attention). At the same time, invisible pictures were flashed in the periphery (made invisible by masking). Looking at the voxels in visual cortex which correspond to the locations of the invisible, peripheral stimuli, they found greater activity in easy mode than in hard mode. In other words, when the central visual task required lots of attention, the invisible stimuli in the periphery activated visual cortex more weakly.

    To quote the article "The present findings are the first to show that neural processes involved in the retinotopic registration of stimulus presence in V1 depend on availability of attentional capacity, even when they do not invoke any conscious experience. These findings challenge previous suggestions that attention and awareness are one and the same."

    1. Re:My summary by invisiblemonki · · Score: 1

      So, ah, we are aware of things, even when we're not specifically paying attention to them. Hense, I can read in traffic. Yeah. Knew that. But thanks for letting me not have to read the whole article.

      --
      If at first you don't succeed, kill the rightful heir.
    2. Re:My summary by radtea · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the excellent summary. It's a pity the /. editors didn't even read the submitter's summary, which says, "the authors report that there's no evidence that this can make people buy things against their will."

      Given this, one has to wonder what /. editors mean by "work" when they say "Subliminal messages might actually work". "Work" can't possibly mean "cause people to buy things", given the content of the summary, still less the article. Nor can it mean "cause people to know things", because the whole point of the article is about relative focus of attention on stimuli the observer is not aware of.

      The headline in fact is completely unrelated to both the summary and the article. It's just a random catchy phrase that the /. editors picked out of a hat because after all, marketing is more important than truth on a site that bills itself as "news for nerds, stuff that matters." Everyone knows that nerds don't care about the truth. Right? I expect we will soon see articles with headlines like, "Hubble Space Telescope Reveals Naked Babes" over articles describing the latest results in solar neutrino research.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    3. Re:My summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have voxels in your visual cortex? You must be some kind of superhero with holo-vision. Hint: To sound impressive without knowledge, look up words before you use them.

    4. Re:My summary by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      It's a pity the /. editors... wonder what /. editors mean... the /. editors... You keep misspelling "paid chimps who have learned to randomly smash the [ACCEPT] button"
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    5. Re:My summary by wanax · · Score: 1

      It's highly unsurprising that attention can be modulated by things we don't perceive. For a psychophysics study with an unbeatable title that supports the conclusion: " A gender- and sexual orientation-dependent spatial attentional effect of invisible images" http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/060567810 3v1

  18. nitsche by EnigmaticSource · · Score: 1

    "New research indicates that subliminal messages may actually work. In a paper titled Attentional Load Modulates Responses of Human Primary Visual Cortex to Invisible Stimuli, Bahrani et al. demonstrate that even though stimuli may not be available to consciousness, they are processed by the visual cortex. While I'm sure that marketing agencies all over the world are rubbing their hands in - glee at this news, the authors report that there's no evidence that this can make people buy things against their will. So with any luck the use of subliminal messages in advertising will remain an urban legend."

    --
    The Geek in Black
    I know my BCD's (when I'm Sober)
  19. OT:Drunk Re:nitsche by EnigmaticSource · · Score: 2, Funny

    Stupid lysdexia, I wish ./ would make me preview when I'm drunk.

    Oh Well, so much for my Karma bonus

    --
    The Geek in Black
    I know my BCD's (when I'm Sober)
  20. subject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Josie and The Pussycats is the Greatest Band ever!

    Join the Army!

  21. Reminds me of something by Diordna · · Score: 1

    The Psy Corps is your friend.
    Trust the Psy Corps.

    (couldn't use all caps like the original)
    (obscure?)

    1. Re:Reminds me of something by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      babylon 5 ( season 4 i think).

      Blipverts from max headroom seem more fitting to this study though.. lets hope nobody explodes from them : )

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  22. Now and Zen by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 1

    > While I'm sure that marketing agencies all over the world are rubbing their hands in glee at this news,

    Let's mount our own subliminal ad campaign: "Ban Advertising" or better still "Ban Advertising Executives"

  23. Old news, bad conclusions. by alisson · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This isn't exactly new information. It's been widely available for decades that yes, in fact, you do register subliminal messages. But it's also been proven time and again, that they have a statistically insignificant effect on your desires, and CERTAINLY not enough to change your opinions.

    1. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by Walt+Dismal · · Score: 1

      While I read this thread, I kept wanting to have hot sex. Then I looked at the page's source. Every word was followed by the words 'Hot sex!" and "Cmdr Taco!" coded to render in white text on a white background. Unfortunately, my browser didn't render it all properly, and I ended up having sex with Mexican food. Many times. In one hour.

    2. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by BigDukeSix · · Score: 1
      What haven't been available for decades are things like CT/PET and functional MRI. These techniques allow one to map increases in metabolic activity to specific regions of the brain in response to stimuli. Eventually advertisers might be able to choose visual patterns which excite both emotions (limbic region) and memory (prefrontal cortex).

      Let's say Madison Avenue discovers a combination of embedded images which increase favorable memory retention in five percent of subjects, but induce seizures in 1 out of 10,000 people. My opinion is that a large portion of advertisers would ask, "What's the down side?"

    3. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not just messages per sé, but other information as well. Some conditions can prevent a person from being able to consciously see an object in a section of their field of vision, even though it can still be registered by their visual cortex. However, this oddly enough does not prevent them from being able to reach out and grab the object if asked to attempt it, although I imagine they must be surprised at being able to do so.

    4. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by kripkenstein · · Score: 1

      This isn't exactly new information. It's been widely available for decades that yes, in fact, you do register subliminal messages. But it's also been proven time and again, that they have a statistically insignificant effect on your desires, and CERTAINLY not enough to change your opinions.

      100% true, but it is a complaint against the summary, not the actual article (as usual). TFA is about a more specific topic, and has humbler conclusions than the summary would indicate.

      Regarding the summary, as you say, this is old news. Subliminal effects are easy to see in the lab - priming, for example - but have very minor effects. Not enough to base an ad campaign on.
    5. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by MutantHamster · · Score: 1

      I second this, as it's something a lot of people don't realize. Additionally, if you do some research and you'll find that most companies' marketing departments have entire sections devoted to research of subliminal marketing. A lot of fast food restaurants choose their color schemes based on what their "research" tells them are colors that trigger responses of hunger. So, it may not be the greatest research, or entirely accurate, but a lot of corporations out there are certainly investing in it.

      --
      My Greatest Heist - Muisc partly inspired by the unbeatable Qwantz
    6. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by ArgumentBoy · · Score: 1

      The parent poster is entirely right. The phenomenon is called "priming" and we've known for many years that it works. In fact, it's so reliable that it's actually a standard research design paradigm. In class, I demonstrate this by drawing an ambiguous "letter" on the blackboard. It's either a capital H with the verticals tilted together at the top, or a capital A where the verticals don't quite meet. To show students how priming works, I put a C before the "letter" and a T after, and they clearly see that it is an A. Then I erase the C and T, and replace them with T and E, and the students "see" that it is an H. If you prime someone with CAT for about 100 milliseconds, then show them the letter for as long as you like, they identify it as an A. Similarly if you prime THE. 100 milliseconds isn't long enough for the prime to reach consciousness. Thus it is subliminal (limen = threshhold for conscious perception). As clear as the evidence for subliminal perception is, it is equally clear that persuasion doesn't work this way. In spite of being able to fiddle perception a tiny bit, this simply doesn't translate to changes in attitude or behavior. The only long-term reliable way to persuade someone is to get them to believe and think about a genuinely good argument. Tricks fail. As a prof who teaches persuasion and argumentation, I find that I have to un-teach this cr*p just about every year.

    7. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

      Yup, that's why this form of advertising was banned in certain countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_advertisin g

    8. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by alisson · · Score: 1

      The problem is; that's still a part of the old puzzle. You've just replaced "Subliminal messages, which are probably recognised by the brain, have a minimal effect" with "Subliminal messages, which are recognised by the brain, have a minimal effect."

      Yes, it should be/is possible to actually excite certain parts of the brain with messages that can't be registered consciously. But is it really worth it? It doesn't make you think "I want a cheeseburger!!" even though you're a vegetarian. Instead, it might make you want a tofu burger. :)

    9. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by McDutchie · · Score: 1

      As a prof who teaches persuasion and argumentation, I find that I have to un-teach this cr*p just about every year.

      Is that you, Essjay?

    10. Re:Old news, bad conclusions. by ArgumentBoy · · Score: 1

      Nope. But whoever Essjay is, we probably know each other because it's a pretty small collection of people who do this. Sorry to reply publicly, but couldn't get to your email.

  24. All I got to say... by toupsie · · Score: 1

    RATS!

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    1. Re:All I got to say... by mdsolar · · Score: 1

      Republocrats!

  25. Correction: not an urban legend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subliminal ads were used decades ago, and work. I think they may be illegal now, but not ineffective.

  26. The will to buy by gvz · · Score: 1

    no evidence that this can make people buy things against their will If consumers really believe that their (our) will is unmodified after being bombarded by publicity, it must mean we know very little about who or what we are.

    People is greatly influenced by their surroundings, and while nobody can say I drink Coke, wear Docker's, drive GM or read Slashdot against my will, it is quite undeniable that the knowledge of their existence wasn't in my mind before I saw some publicity. At some moment I decided on using such products, and usually, rejecting at the same time other choices.

    As someone said a few comments above, a little tip to the will is good enough to make me buy some product (against some other or even against no product at all). And while subliminal won't have me acting against my will, the process of "tipping my will" is most decidedly against my will. Publicity -subliminal or otherwise- has a definite effect on my will, and the only way to avoid that would be to make such an effect conscious, and consciously deny it, or isolate myself from the cause (a little hard to do).

    In that sense, subliminal publicity, as far as it is a lot harder to make conscious, is also harder to "fight" against. No, I won't buy against my mill but I could be more inclined to make a certain choice and not know why.
  27. somewhat on-topic...cool nonetheless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.

    1. Re:somewhat on-topic...cool nonetheless by MontyApollo · · Score: 1
      Cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae.

      VERY COOL

    2. Re:somewhat on-topic...cool nonetheless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hevewor, if you do a tatol rasrevel of the mlddie lrettes it can mkae initerpretng the mgassee sahwemot mroe pitamelborc tahn a slpmie rodnam slbmarce.

  28. There was a TV show too! by Brickwall · · Score: 1

    And let's not forget about Max Headroom, the Zikzak Corporation, and "blipverts".

    --
    What was once true, is no longer so
  29. Also Investigate by dave562 · · Score: 1

    Neuro Linguistic Programming - And also as an adjunct, Bandler and Grinder's two books on Eriksonian hypnosis as a delivery method for subconscious suggestions Influence by Cialdini. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cialdini

  30. Subliminal messages have been around for a while by Seantotheizzo · · Score: 0

    In audio especially. I am not here to prove they exist, because I am anti-alarmist by nature. But don't be so naive to think that marketers, especially in the music business, rely strictly on ethical black-and-white methods of advertising. The subconscious is far more powerful than the conscious, and is much more accessible via audio techniques than any other media. Don't be afraid, but be aware.

  31. They sort of work, but aren't very effective by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I remember my college psych classes properly, subliminal messages to buy a product may work to some degree, but obvious ads to buy a product work far better. There's lots of studies on the effectiveness of advertising, and not very many on the effectiveness of subliminal messages.

    I think Greenwald is the author I was thinking of, but some of these other articles may be useful.

  32. Old News? by Wazukkithemaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My psych 111 class went over things like this... the brain processes a lot of things that aren't consciously picked up upon especially when it comes to vision. Experiments have been done that prove that people really don't notice what is right in front of their faces. A bunch of people were shown a video of 2 people tossing a basketball back and forth for probably 10 minutes (i dont recall exactly) but then a man in a gorilla suit walks by behind the people tossing the basketball, then everything proceeds as normal again. When asked later if the viewers remembered the gorilla walking by a large % responded no (again, i can't remember specifically).

    --
    Live according to the Categorical Imperative. If the Categorical Imperative tells you not to live by it... ignore it
    1. Re:Old News? by TCaM · · Score: 1

      sounds like a vonage commercial

    2. Re:Old News? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The phenomenon you're referring to is called inattentional blindness. The demo of it that you're referring to (the gorilla suit guy) is located here: http://viscog.beckman.uiuc.edu/grafs/demos/15.html

    3. Re:Old News? by freedomlinux · · Score: 1

      Umm... I have seen this experiment and have come to a slightly different conclusion. If I am correct, the test subject is instructed to count the number of time the baseball is thrown. While many people do not report seeing the gorilla, this seems to prove that many people don't notice because they are distracted by keeping an accurate count on the baseball. I believe a portion of the group not reporting the gorilla could be attributed to the human mind focusing on a given task, rather than observing object which are not noted as the targeted object or action.

    4. Re:Old News? by Wazukkithemaster · · Score: 1

      You are probably right. You seem to be much more familiar with the experiment than i am. However, it would be easy to see how an advertisement might also use this methodology to focus the viewers attention to a specific task or object while displaying other images.

      --
      Live according to the Categorical Imperative. If the Categorical Imperative tells you not to live by it... ignore it
    5. Re:Old News? by GrumpySimon · · Score: 1

      There were also other Change Blindness experiments which were more convincing, mainly conducted by Daniel Simons. For example, in one study, participants went into a room and asked to sign up for something. The person behind the desk, ducked down to get them a form, and a *different* person stood up and continued the conversation.

      The vast majority of subjects didn't notice anything wrong, even when there were large differences in the two people.

    6. Re:Old News? by Wazukkithemaster · · Score: 1

      Ahh yes. Now I remember that the article was about un-attentional(non-attentional?) blindness. Still I think that this could be useful for advertisers if it can be proven that the differences would register in the persons subconscious.

      --
      Live according to the Categorical Imperative. If the Categorical Imperative tells you not to live by it... ignore it
    7. Re:Old News? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      But pretty much the one thing that's been proven over and over again about advertising is that people's buying habits are not affected much by subtlety. See, it doesn't matter if stuff registers subliminally, because then it only works subliminally. You could spend a quarter million dollars seeding various forms of media with your message, but in the end you get X number of people with the vague notion that they've heard someone mention "Coca-Cola". The same money would have better results in the form of a giant billboard showing a frosty Coke can, facing a busy street in the summer. That's what this most recent study shows: there's just no shortcut. Advertising works best by beating people over the head with it.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  33. Well, Here's A Rare Opportunity For Trolls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of those few occasions when posting TFA text with an ASCII goatse rendering embedded in it is actually on topic.

  34. Subliminal adverts are already out there! by John+Jamieson · · Score: 1

    So with any luck the use of subliminal messages in advertising will remain an urban legend.... ha ha ha. They are already out there!

    I work a lot in the gameing(gambling really, but we call it gameing) industry as a coder.
    The national/public news organization up in Canada has been ripping apart one or the provincial lottery organizations lately. In the investigation they found that some KONAMI slots were displaying subliminal messages. They were flashing winning hands. This affected 3 newer types of slots(If I remember correctly, and the Ontario Lottery Corp pulled them immediately).

    Point is, some people already knew subliminal worked and were using it. Oh ya, want a laugh? Konami says it was just a bug in the code.

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/25/video-lo ttery.html
    http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/02/26/1614216.shtml

  35. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  36. Reading between the lines... by dantheman82 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Never overestimate the human intellect not getting theoretical or subliminal enterprising Elbonians hiding ephemeral ridiculous epistles.

    Moreover only very efficient altruistic living organisms never grovel!

    --
    This sig donated to Pater. Long live /.
  37. Like others said, not really news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article was apparently on the importance of attentional focus in the quality of subliminal visual perception, not whether it occurs at all. Psychologists have confirmed subliminal perception and priming in hundreds of experiments; however, the question of whether subliminal advertising works is more complicated.

    The consensus is generally "no," however. There is some experimental evidence that subliminal priming increases behaviors when a motivation already exists (e.g. subliminally priming "thirsty" when a subject is already thirsty increases drinking), but on the whole most psychologists don't worry about the possibility of subliminal advertising being used to manipulate people. At least, not any more than they worry about supraliminal advertising being used on us everywhere we go.

  38. Huh? by CPNABEND · · Score: 1

    "Attentional Load Modulates Responses of Human Primary Visual Cortex to Invisible Stimuli" Isn't it too early for April Fools?

    --
    My wife doesn't listen to me either...
  39. Of course this is absurd: by Sfing_ter · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This is absurd (buy a computer), this could never work (bill gates is a god), there is now way that (microsoft is best company ever) could work, the powers that be would take care of us (the government is here to help you), they will know if it is possible for us to affected by (eat more bacon) these kinds of things (big macs make your heart stronger). Who do they think we are, (america NEEDS oil) sheep to be led around until it's time (electric cars are for fags) to be led to the slaughter?

    I don't know about you, (buy more things, you need MORE), but I for one would never fall for any (solar power is for pussies) scheme like that.

    I'm off now to get a new computer, with Windows Vista, pay my taxes, and get a snack; can you get bacon on a bigmac? I'll be drivin my patriotic Hummer H2 so stay the fuck outa my way....

    --
    A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
  40. Re:They were outlawed in the US years ago. by Technician · · Score: 1

    http://www.blufr.com/?t=subliminal

    Until the practice was outlawed in 1993, movie theaters used to insert single-frame ads for concessions during the course of films to try to subliminally influence viewers to buy popcorn.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  41. LSD messes up the reaction by infonography · · Score: 1

    Whatever you do;

    Do not think about your tongue.

    /thats a very old and dirty trick, best said to acidheads. but if you think somebody can't put something in somebody's head well, what are you thinking about right now?

    --
    Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    1. Re:LSD messes up the reaction by mano_k · · Score: 1

      Whatever you do;
      Do not think about your tongue.
      /thats a very old and dirty trick, best said to acidheads. but if you think somebody can't put something in somebody's head well, what are you thinking about right now?

      What I am thinking about right now? A certain girl's tongue!

      ;-p

  42. Who doesn't 'know' this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it should be obvious that are perceptions can affect our moods and state of mind. over time, these can form associations. an extreme example would be to repeatedly show me a picture of linsay lohan naked while stabbing me with a fork. after awhile, everytime i see her semblance, i'm going to have a strong desire to curl up in a ball in a corner and whimper in terror like an abused monkey. But here's the deal, stuff i see, hear, feel, or smell for a fraction of a second is MUCH less likely to have an effect on me than stuff i see, hear, feel or smell for minutes. the longer the exposure, the more effect. so, if subliminal is defined as something that lasts only a fraction of second or even a second, then subliminal messages are not a threat. when was the last time you saw a good commercial only to be turned off by the fine print? however, make no mistake about it, we are all being hacked by commercials and advertising. i call it the black arts :)

  43. Re:They were outlawed in the US years ago. by omeomi · · Score: 1

    Until the practice was outlawed in 1993, movie theaters used to insert single-frame ads for concessions during the course of films to try to subliminally influence viewers to buy popcorn.

    Well, I'm glad that's a fake...I can picture our government trying to make such a law, but I can't imagine any sequence of events that would allow that to remain illegal...terrorists or not...

  44. Re:I've been wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Errr... your mac users in that photo are pretty ugly too.

  45. Just a reminder by tearmeapart · · Score: 1

    This is just a reminder:
    SUPERLIMINAL MESSAGES ALSO WORK
    In other news, the lameness filter is lame.

  46. Induced Suggestions by tantaliz3 · · Score: 1

    Subliminal messages don't cause people to buy things against their will, especially in this day and age when people have become resistant to advertising. They are designed to make people think about a product without the filter of advertising. That way people will think about a product unbiased by the advertising they are normally subjected to, instead of just dismissing the product when they see a commercial. My 2c

  47. SMOKE. by macserv · · Score: 1

    SMOKE.

    Are ya smokin' yet?!

    1. Re:SMOKE. by stelki · · Score: 0

      Loved that one, I laughed so hard when I watched it the first time ages ago.

  48. hypothesis by anwyn · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The advertising industry used this technique for over 30 years, spending millions of dollars on it. But, they never did a double bind test to find out if it works!

    Just how plausible is this hypothesis?

    The other hypothesis is that the technique is known to work!

    1. Re:hypothesis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other hypothesis is that the advertising industry hasn't spent millions of dollars on it, because it doesn't work. Seriously, where did you get the idea that they had?

      Oooh, oooh, next you can tell us the one about how the Jews control the gold supply!

  49. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  50. Strange that nobody brought that up yet: by mano_k · · Score: 1

    "Nobody knows that they saw it, but they did..."

    "A nice, big, c*ck..."

  51. Casual observer's comment... by merc · · Score: 1

    Gee, I hope there's no subliminal messages in this forum.. (proceeds to join the navy while installing linux and donating money generously to random people)...

    --
    It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
  52. It all makes sense now... by yogurtforthesoul · · Score: 0

    I was in my house browsing the "tubes" when all of a sudden there were bangs coming from every direction. I looked out and everyone was getting in their cars, suvs, helicopters, and canoes. I looked outside everywhere and from my rooftop for a sign of disaster. I checked the news, nothing was on. Then my wife came in and said,"Honey, you want to go to Chili's?". Then it struck me. Desperate Housewives was on and had an ad blurt about Chili's.

    Good thing I read this on Slashdot or might be into my 12½ margarita by now.

    --
    Something witty goes here.
  53. eeeheheehehehaehh by unity100 · · Score: 1

    your post got me going exactly at 12.09 GMT+2 man.

  54. Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads. by twitter · · Score: 1

    Just plain old advertising could be said to make people "buy things against their will", if it tips the balance from "slightly inclined to not purchase" to "slightly inclined to purchase".

    The purpose of advertising is to build brand awareness. You can't buy what you don't know and when you do buy, you are inclined to purchase those things that are familiar. Advertising attempts to create a relationship of trust where none exists and to undo existing trust.

    Subliminals attempt to make the message stick, by plying on your deepest emotions. Typical subjects include sex and death. The contents, if seen consciously, are shocking. The greater the shock value, the greater the impact. Perversely enough, the more shocking the image is, the harder your mind works to hide it from you. The images can be drawn from porn, war and crime photos. Alcohol advertisers are notorious for using AA nightmare images to feed on your self destructive tendencies. With computer art work, the advertiser has tremendous power to place these images in a seemless way.

    The consequence of these methods is to inflict everyone all of the supposed effects of exposure to violence and porn. Most people with cable TV are walking around with post traumatic stress syndrome and don't know it. If there's any truth to porn exposure creating promiscuity, objectification of the opposite sex and demand for porn, that too has happened. Road rage, divorce, hook-ups, and many other social disorders are a direct consequence of this unethical form of advertising.

    People fighing porn and violence directly are aiming at the wrong targets. Video games, movies and porn are private and voluntary. The public still has a choice and can still avoid things they don't like. Subliminal advertising is public and forced.

    The shameful thing is that people who make these advertisements know what they are doing better than anyone else. They do the studdies and they know just what pushes your buttons.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  55. Derren Brown by ajpr · · Score: 1

    recently did a series of theatre shows where there was a subliminal message theme running throughout.

    There's a DVD of it so you can see it for yourself. I didn't think the messages would work, but his audience seems to fall for it. Any ideas how this happened? (He managed to get the audience to pick out a single rare and uncommon word from a collection of newspapers)

    1. Re:Derren Brown by teeloo · · Score: 1

      Derren Brown's series "Trick of the Mind" and "Mind Control" are fascinating entertainment as well. He's the UK's version of David Blaine, but with much more of an intellectual twist (perhaps too smart for American audiences). He has always revealed his methods (a combination of misdirection, neurolinguistic programming and showmanship) of "mind reading". All his programmes are well worth the search.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown

  56. Re:I've been wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Again with the trannies. You changed the picture, but once again the Mac users are of questionable sexual orientation. Is that really the message you're trying to send?

  57. Finally by MadJo · · Score: 1

    Finally, a use for Blink tags.

  58. Subliminal Messages for Sale by literate · · Score: 1

    Here's a link that leads to a company that sells a program that pops up subliminal messages to help people stop smoking, lose weight, learn math facts: http://sublimx.com/ Kim

  59. OBEY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OBEY

  60. Re:Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Road rage, divorce, hook-ups, and many other social disorders are a direct consequence of this unethical form of advertising. Bollocks. You're one of those "TV is the devil" fuckwits, aren't you. Road rage has more to do with urban stress than anything else. Increase in divorce rates has fuck-all to do with TV and everything to do with a liberalization of society and abandonment of the stigma attached to single parenting, i.e. marriages aren't being wrecked by TV, they're just not being kept together when they're bad anymore. "Hook-ups"? If you knew anything about sexual promiscuity throughout the ages, you'd know what an idiot you sound like claiming it's a "social disorder". People like fucking, and they always have. They do it all the time. Porn doesn't make 'em do it-- we're hard wired for it. Get over your bizarre prudery.
    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  61. Subliminal messages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess they MIGHT (buy a new computer!!) work.

  62. NLP by TheCreeep · · Score: 1

    Does subliminal advertising include the sort of embedded commands one learns from NLP courses?

  63. Superlearning by transporter_ii · · Score: 1

    If you are interested in that, you might also like the book, Superlearning, by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder with Nancy Ostrander, which involves studying while listening to classical music. Also, another good book is The Memory Book, by Harry Lorayne & Jerry Lucas. You can go to Amazon and read a lot of people's comments about both books (and prob. pick up either book used for next to nothing).

    I used both methods to study for an FCC GROL test I needed to take for work. Honestly, there is some crap involved in Superlearning, but I do feel there is a *little* something to it.

    But here is my take on both of the above methods of learning. They work good if you have to memorize a set amount of information. For example, the FCC GROL has a question pool of around 900 questions and answers...and the actual test questions come out of this pool. I basically memorized the entire pool and used the Superlearning and memory tricks from the Memory Book to help me in the parts I had trouble with. I passed the test my first time, made a 99 on the hard part of the FCC GROL test, and finished the complete test in like 10 to 15 minutes (note: my boss at the time thought the test was super hard and failed it his first time.).

    Now I have been studying for my Cisco CCNA. When you don't know what is actually going to be on a test, the Superlearning and memory tricks are much less useful, although I have used them in a couple of areas where I had trouble with specific items. Also, I am trying to learn the material more from doing than from just memorizing, because unlike the FCC GROL, I really want to understand what is going on with Cisco routers.

    Transporter_ii

    --
    Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
  64. Re:Nothing Subliminal In Advertising by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

    Oh, shit, I didn't see the fnord at first, only after reading the second line I read the first again and saw the fnord!

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  65. Re:Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads by twitter · · Score: 1

    You're one of those "TV is the devil" fuckwits, aren't you.[sic]

    No, I'm one of those, "Don't expose me to blood, guts and sex without me knowing about it," fuckwits. All forms of advertisements that do those things are evil. The observed and cited consequences of those exposures is a matter of debate.

    Bollocks. ... fuckwits ... fuck-all ... idiot ... bizarre prudery.

    Nice. Do you work for Microsoft or do you curse to make yourself feel big?

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  66. Re:Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

    No, I'm one of those, "Don't expose me to blood, guts and sex without me knowing about it," fuckwits. All forms of advertisements that do those things are evil. Sorry, I have yet to see a credible example of "secret graphic blood/guts/sex images" in advertising. Perhaps you could provide a couple examples? Or are they all so well hidden no one can see them? (snicker)

    The observed and cited consequences of those exposures is a matter of debate. Given that the very existence of such things is a matter of debate, I'd have to agree.

    Bollocks. ... fuckwits ... fuck-all ... idiot ... bizarre prudery.

    Nice. Do you work for Microsoft or do you curse to make yourself feel big?

    No, I curse to show my derision for the laughable conspiracy theory blatherings of certifiable lunatics when I'm addressing them through a text-only interface, as you can't hear me laughing and snorting at your tin-foil-hattery.

    See, if you really want to discredit someone who's mocking you and using profanity, the best way is to calmly prove your points with rational argument and hard facts and make him look like an asshat. I can give you this advice without fear, as I know your position is insane and indefensible. The profanity has a bonus of goading a pure ad hominem response, letting me know you read my rebuttal. If I speak politely, I tend to get no response to my rebuttal, which isn't quite as satisfying. Now I know you heard my argument, and can't come up with any counterargument. Much more satisfying to my cynical heart!

    Looking forward to clips of those subliminal bloody-guts beer commercials you promised!
    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  67. New research, but not new info on subliminal ads by Arti · · Score: 1

    Anyone who is even peripherally involved in visual perception and cognition should be aware that what we perceive consciously is not the limit of what we *process* about our visual environment. There are countless studies showing that people can extract large amounts of information from stimuli that they have not consciously seen. This news item is equivalent to somebody grabbing a highly specific, esoteeric finding in modern physics and posting a slashdot article entitled "DOODZ! GOD MAY BE PLAYING DICE WITH THE UNIVERSE!". That's the level of relevance and insight that's going on here.

  68. I'm amazed I haven't seen this one yet... by Bwana+Geek · · Score: 0

    Articles like this make me uneasy fnord. I think they're lying to us fnord, and subliminal advertisements really do exist fnord, they just want to throw us off the trail fnord so they can continue lying to us fnord. You can't trust anyone fnord.

  69. Re:Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads by The+Bungi · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Nice. Do you work for Microsoft or do you curse to make yourself feel big?

    Now now twitter, let's not go there, OK? Do you also work for "M$"? Or not?

    Isn't it amazing what a few bored ACs are able to dig up on you? Too bad they're not posting anymore...

  70. Bush used it in his RATS commercial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even GW's crew uses subliminal messages. I guess they learned that from their CIA connections. Kinda makes me wonder what other crap is being fed to the sheeple.

    Bush says 'RATS' ad not meant as subliminal message
    link: http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/09/ 13/ads/index.html
    link: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/0 9/12/bush.ad/

  71. Proving the Proven for the Sake of Publication by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    They've done nothing but show that the "cocktail party" effect works for the visual system as well as the auditory. Intresting in itself, but not surprising nor indicative of any extra mechanism at work.

    Say you're at a party. The noise is loud, yet you are paying attention to a person talking to you at a level far below the ambient sound. How do we do it? Modulating our attention. Suddenly someone else across the room calls your name. You hear it and respond, despite the fact your attention was focused on that one person. This happens because you take in and process irrelevant stimuli just in case it, such as in this instance, becomes relevant.

    In this paper they worked far too hard (fMRI, monocular masking) to prove that the visual system works the same way. Not at all surprising considering that split attention, one focused the other operating on automatic (called para-attention) is driving the perceptual bus.

    Subliminals don't work in auditory through this mechanism, so there's no reason to suspect they will in the visual. Being able to notice something you weren't previously giving conscious attention to is a far cry from that information you're not paying attention to making you behave in a way you wouldn't otherwise.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  72. Subliminal Suggestion by Oshkoshjohn · · Score: 1

    A long time ago, back when the world was new, I was in Graduate School in Business, and in the consumer behavior course, the final exam had an essay question (back in the day, one really had to know stuff to get through school), "You are at a seminar and scheduled to attend a series of meetings that will last all day. The first panel will be discussing subliminal suggestion. What do you do to prepare for this discussion?" My response was that I would skip the panel and go sit in the hotel bar for a couple of hours until the next panel, because subliminal suggestion is fake science. I got the full points for that answer, and in over thirty years I have never read anything to dissuade myself of that opinion!

    --
    Goddamned kids! Get off my lawn!
  73. Re:Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads by kalirion · · Score: 1

    Road rage has more to do with urban stress than anything else.

    Really? I always thought road rage had more to do with people being assholes than anything else. That or working in a DSL office.

  74. Anyone else Copy Con Suggest.com? by justthinkit · · Score: 1

    In the November 25, 1986 issue of PC Magazine, Michael J. Mefford's SUGGEST.COM was published. In about an hour you could type in 1,256 characters into a Basic program and it would output the COM file. Does anyone else remember doing this? [BTW, search this page for "suggest.com" to get a brief description.]

    --
    I come here for the love
  75. Re:Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads by jb.hl.com · · Score: 1

    Nice. Do you work for Microsoft

    A complete non-sequitur.

    You are delusional and paranoid. Seek help.

    --
    By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
  76. Re:Purpose, Method, Consequences of Subliminal Ads by the_wishbone · · Score: 1

    Great post!!! If I had mod points you'd have gotten them for sure.

  77. It's a farce, i'll prove it! by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

    Maybe
    Our
    Discussion
    Might
    Evoke
    Unsurpassed
    Praise?

    I hope it will be.

  78. Apply directly to the commercial by tepples · · Score: 1

    I think advertisers are now trying to make some ads as bad as possible just to get attention.

    Bad press: It worked for Miralus. Bad press: It worked for Miralus. Bad press: It worked for Miralus. HeadOn from Miralus is available at retailers nationwide.

  79. But what is the field rate in ATSC 24 fps? by tepples · · Score: 1

    ATSC (our HDTV system) has a 24fps mode specifically tailored for film. So I suggest to you stop slaving your fps to the frequency of your AC mains! But does an ATSC TV start scanning at 72 Hz when displaying this mode (3 fields per unique frame), or does it drop down to 48 Hz (2 fields per unique frame), or does it stay at 60 Hz like traditional NTSC telecine (alternating between 2 and 3 fields)?
  80. Prime example: levitra by SonicSpike · · Score: 1

    A prime example is the Levitra logo. It looks like a flame; it isn't!

    Here is an example:
    http://www.uro.ru/forall/images/levitra.jpg

    --
    Libertas in infinitum