Slashdot Mirror


SCO Says IBM Hurt Profits

AlanS2002 sends in a link from a local Utah newspaper covering the SCO-IBM trial. The Deseret News chose to emphasize SCO's claim that IBM hurt SCO's relationship with several high-tech powerhouses, causing SCO's market share and revenues to plummet. "[A]n attorney for Lindon-based SCO said IBM 'pressured' companies to cut off their relationships with SCO. And 'the effect on SCO was devastating and it was immediate'..." As usual Groklaw has chapter and verse on all the arguments in the motions for summary judgement.

44 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. Hurt Profits? by Sillygates · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't that what competition is about? Taking business from competitors?

    --
    I fear the Y2038 bug
    1. Re:Hurt Profits? by Danse · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Read it again. It's saying that businesses which were already in relationships with both IBM AND SCO were pressured to cut off contact with SCO.

      Nothing wrong with that unless IBM is considered to have a monopoly position in competition with SCO.
      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    2. Re:Hurt Profits? by nmb3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Isn't that what competition is about? Taking business from competitors?

      Remember that next time Microsoft is brought up.

      There is more to a situation than just "that's what companies do". The reason Slashdotters get their panties in a twist when Microsoft is brought up is because their business practices are not always kosher.

      Your +5 Insightful proves, it seems, that Slashdot likes to forget that this can apply to any large company, and that includes IBM and Google.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    3. Re:Hurt Profits? by Samari711 · · Score: 4, Informative
      The truth of this statement is, of course, an entirely separate discussion.

      Actually, it IS the discussion at hand. In the hearing IBM stated that they have depositions from the heads of those companies saying that IBM did not in fact pressure them. This means that all of SCOx's evidence is hearsay. Additionally IBM goes on to say that even if what SCOx was right, what they claim IBM did is not illegal.

      --

      I never said I was smart, I just said I was smarter than you

    4. Re:Hurt Profits? by GSloop · · Score: 4, Informative

      IBM is NOT a convicted monopolist in any of the markets SCO is competing in. (If you can say SCO is competing in ANY market, other than frivolous litigation.)

      Further, IBM has persuaded, at least allegedly, it's competitors (BayStar Capital Management, Intel, Oracle, Computer Associates, Hewlett Packard and Novell) to put the hit on SCO. Monopoly (of which IBM isn't by far) simply won't fly here.

      SCO's claims are laughable.

    5. Re:Hurt Profits? by bonefry · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah ... when Microsoft got sued for the Eolas patent I remember a favorable reaction from the Slashdot crowd regarding Microsoft.

      Maybe companies should improve, innovate and respect their customers.
      Microsoft rarely does that.
      And SCO was the one that sued IBM, and its own customers, not the other way around ... from a moral point of view, it got what it deserves.

      So please stop bitching and moaning about how companies are supposed to make money.
      Companies should respect its customers, and because Microsoft is a convicted monopoly it has the liberty to screw its customers, and guess what, it does screw us ;)

    6. Re:Hurt Profits? by Volante3192 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So please stop bitching and moaning about how companies are supposed to make money.

      Well, that is the underlying concept behind a company: making money. That's why there's outsourcing and patent fights and the recall equation.

      The trick is making money while still respecting its customers.

      SCO is trying to make money suing IBM, ignoring their own target market (it is assumed for the purpose of this argument that SCO actually HAS a market). It should be no mystery why they're losing business, and it's not...to everyone outside SCO.

  2. Good by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Probably SCO should have thought about this before suing IBM for billions of dollars (with fake claims.)

    1. Re:Good by hedwards · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't know that the claims are fake, perhaps they are just really, really protective about showing the judge their evidence.

    2. Re:Good by schon · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's not like it is going to go up in a puff of smoke once someone sees it. No, but (to paraphrase Douglas Adams) it might go up in a puff of logic.

      actually, let me fix that: s/might/would/

    3. Re:Good by dbIII · · Score: 4, Interesting

      just really, really protective about showing the judge their evidence

      In which case they should never be in court either and should be sulking in a corner if they have something they don't want to tell anyone. It is very late in the process - there is no evidence only expensive delaying tactics which would not be necessary if there was evidence in their favour.

      The fake website DOS attack, the MIT experts on the payroll that didn't exist, the millions of lines of stolen code, the magic briefcase that could hold a couple of hundred kilograms of paper with the complete linux source code legibly printed on it and still be carried in one hand out of an aircraft in Germany - all these things point to a lack of integrity. It is most likely a smokescreen to conceal what is ultimately a con job - and linux is just the vehicle since it is complex enough to fool some credulous investors. I'd be curious to see how much of the SCO legal expenses go directly in the CEO's brothers pocket. It really does look like claim salting in the wild west to me.

  3. Infinite variations on a theme? by el+cisne · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The theme "not our fault". When will these jokers die? Wasn't it SCO suing it's own customers that might have had something to do with their profit loss? Or their millions spent on flimsy legal activities? Might it have been... oh what's the point, it is all too ridiculous anymore. There's just about nothing that can be said that hasn't not been said ad infinitum already. This stuff almost doesn't rate as 'news' anymore, just another spewing forth from the absurd. The news will be when this is over and their corpse rotting.

    1. Re:Infinite variations on a theme? by kimvette · · Score: 5, Funny

      It is like watching a train wreck, you cannot help but watch.

      Except in the case of SCO, the train is heading for a compact car, and we're all rooting for the train.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    2. Re:Infinite variations on a theme? by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except in the case of SCO, the train is heading for a compact car, and we're all rooting for the train.

      Nah, a car isn't unsympatethic enough. At this point it's like a skunk that ran past the train station spraying all the passengers, then set off down the tracks. Right now the train is still steaming up but everyone knows it'll just be a small bloody smear left when it's over.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  4. Almost 5 Years... by daigu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can we call this one a dead horse and move on?

    1. Re:Almost 5 Years... by MarkRose · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can we call this one a dead horse and move on?

      Nei-ei-ei-eigh!

      --
      Be relentless!
    2. Re:Almost 5 Years... by db32 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Keep beating it everyone! Candy will eventually come out!

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  5. Source of the Hurt by pashdown · · Score: 3, Insightful

    SCO did plenty of hurt to their own selves when they fired letter-shots across the bow of companies using Linux.

  6. This will never end by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Funny

    After they're done with this suit, they will sue IBM for messing up their restrooms, for parking in the wrong spots, for eating greasy food while looking at their legal documents, for IBM laywers not wiping their feet before entering SCO on rainy days, for sneazing colds around, etc. etc. etc.

  7. Re:finally by sanborn's+man · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh the irony! The master blamed of copying his most brilliant student ways. Who do you think taught Microsoft to behave like that?

  8. IBM did hurt SCO's relationship. by www.sorehands.com · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IBM hurt the relationship between SCO and other people by fighting SCO's copyright suit. By fighting the copyright suit, it pissed off many people who decided to move away from SCO lest they may be sued in a few years.

    1. Re:IBM did hurt SCO's relationship. by rsmoody · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have nothing to back this up, but I would put money on a large percentage of companies that were/are running SCO software were also running Linux somewhere. My bet is that when this started happening and the writing on the wall showed that SCO would be suing companies for running Linux if they could, they dumped any and all SCO software as fast as possible so that they would not pull some sort of "we are suing you for using Linux, and if you don't pay up instead of go to court, we are going to drop all support for any SCO software we are supporting." The smart thing in this case for any company using SCO software would be to run away from any SCO product and run FAST! When I worked at AutoZone's SSC, I remember seeing large numbers of Linux and Sun servers, but not a trace of SCO and if I remember correctly, in talking to some admins about the situation, they dumped any and all SCO products like a VERY hot potato not long after the suit started as their relationship with IBM seemed just rosy. flameaway

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  9. Not their fault by Edward+Kmett · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm sure the impact on their business had nothing to do with them frothing at the mouth and raving like a pack of lunatics since 2003 while threatening to sue their own customers over using Linux.

    Nope, not a bit.

    It, like Groklaw, must all be part of a Scientology-level conspiracy by IBM to discredit them and make them look bad.

    *sigh*

    --
    Sanity is a sandbox. I prefer the swings.
    1. Re:Not their fault by cgenman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      SCO is still around?

      I mean, this started out as gripping, then became fun to watch the train wreck. But it's over. Someone please let SCO know that they've lost.

  10. The SCO story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    As I recall at the beginning of this lawsuit SCO held almost daily press conferences where they slandered Linux, Open Source, Users, and anyone even remotely involved in Linux. SCO threatened to sue their competitors, the customers of their competitors, and even their own customers! It took them a couple months to issue a clarification that they didn't mean to sue their own customers (most of them anyway).

    Despite the daily press conferences, SCO never came up with any evidence to support their claims. They did briefly claim copyright infringement on a specific piece of code only to have the claim shot down within hours when the original author was tracked down.

    While all of that was going on, blogs all over the tech world spouted off about how lousy SCO's products were, how there are better alternatives, and how SCO appeared to be running a pump-and-dump scheme to swindle investors just before the company finally died.

    Their quarter filings looked rather dim as well. They didn't even have enough funds to pay for their own lawsuit. That is until Microsoft came along and gave them a huge infusion of cash in return for something Microsoft had no use for. This reinforced the idea that the daily press conferences truly were nothing more than FUD.

    SCO encountered even more troubles with an SEC investigation and the deaths of two key board members who both shot themselves in the head.

    If you were a SCO customer watching all of this, would you stick with their product?

  11. And you take it seriously? by Talgrath · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Deseret News is nothing but a rag, I've lived in Utah for years and I don't think I've ever seen them report anything well and timely. The Deseret News will support anything Mormon or Utah over other religions and states, don't bother reading.

    1. Re:And you take it seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, if you had read the article it is fairly non biased. It points all the rebuttals from IBM's Lawyer and the whole second half is just what IBM's Lawyer said. For the record I am Mormon but I live in Pennsylvania. I also don't dispute that the Deseret News isn't the best paper, but this article seems to be well written with good information; It reports what happened and what it means to both sides.

  12. Re:finally by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do a little research on "Amdahl". You'll learn very quickly how IBM used to treat competitors, back in the age of big iron, long before Microsoft was even a gleam in Bill Gates' eye. Sure, they've "re-invented" themselves in the past couple decades but we're still talking about Big Blue. SCO would have been better off tangling with the IRS.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  13. Well by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Since when was IBM responsible for SCO's profits?

    SCO Xenix cough Openserver has the been the worst unix out on the market for almost 20 years and Caldera's Openlinux lite sucked goatballs. Old sco has the opportunity to make Openserver more like Solaris, AIX, and Linux for over 2 decades but decided to make it stagnant for decades.

    Worse SCO intentionally crippled its product by not having standard components like a TCP/IP stack unless of course you pay $1200 or something outrageous. No gnu tools, no debuggers, no well just about anything to troubleshoot a dying sco.

    But it seems IBM hurt SCO not by endoring Linux but SCO's crappy linux distro and lottery ticket. Darl McBride won over $26 million personally from the disk compression lawsuit from MS that was included with DOS 6. I think he wanted the same thing to happen with Linux and they were hoping old sco would provide. Bad move.

    SCO has itself to blame and they could have been the next redhat or maybe sun if old sco actually improved their os 20 years ago. Its time it died like other companies who made poor business decisions.

    1. Re:Well by Andy_R · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Since when was IBM responsible for SCO's profits?"

      Since the day SCO's business plan switched from 'sell stuff' to 'pretend we own patents on IBM's stuff'.

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    2. Re:Well by Anna+Merikin · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Caldera's Openlinux lite sucked goatballs.

      Hey, you got too far when you trash-talk Caldera OpenLinux. Ver 1.3 was the first Linux I installed and then actually USED; I had installed an earlier SuSE, but could not grok how to use any of the programs it installed. COL-1.3 had KDE-1.0; WordPerfect's free Linux word processor was my main app. (I'm a writer.) I used it for several years until Netscape started requiring glibc6 and I had to change to another distro (RH)

      OK, COL wouldn't compile even trivial programs out of the box, binary RPMs were nearly impossible to find as its directory structure was unique, and support was nonexistent, but it WASN'T WINDOWS, it didn't crash, and Lisa, its version of SuSE's YaST, was easy to use and worked well, making configuration easier.

      We all have our first loves. Sometimes they had pimples and bad breath, but no one likes to hear our first Linux distro called bad names.

    3. Re:Well by dcollins · · Score: 2, Funny

      Clearly you must be a plant by IBM. Please forward your address to SCO so we can sue you for libel or something ASAP.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
  14. So what? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    SCO Says IBM Hurt Profits

    Good.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  15. Re:finally by Artifakt · · Score: 2, Funny

    SCO would have been better off tangling with the IRS.

    Uhm, what makes you think they haven't?

    --
    Who is John Cabal?
  16. Re:An interesting question, indeed. by phasm42 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Big businesses do not own massive climate controlled rooms filled with panties. We hope.

    --
    "No one likes working in a hamster wheel, and your shop smells of cedar shavings from here." - TaleSpinner
  17. What was that again? by rdieter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sorry, I tuned out everything after "SCO says..."

  18. What? by christurkel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I thought it was because theysued their own customers.

    --

    CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
  19. Re:Wait, what? SCO?! -- what year IS this, anyway? by z3d4r · · Score: 4, Funny

    Your posting to slashdot, and u have a 4 digit uid. You will never have children, as that requires interaction on an intimate level with a member of the opposite sex.

    More likely your home made robotic shark with freakin lasers will read about the SCO debacle in soviet russia as they welcome their new beowulf cluster overlords running linux.

    --
    You shall know him by his Sig
  20. OMG! Sign me up for SCO! by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Think of all the benefits of going to SCO for your Unix needs:
    • An OS that hasn't be updated in forever
    • Absolutely no native software
    • A decent chance of being sued by SCO for no real reason.
    • A decent chance of being sued by IBM or someone in the Linux world for using software that SCO distributed in violation of the GPL
    • An absolute lack of techies with experience in your platform
    • The 50% "conscience" bonus you need to pay your admins to work with SCO
    I'm moving my servers to SCO today!!
  21. Re:Wait, what? SCO?! -- what year IS this, anyway? by Seumas · · Score: 4, Funny

    Screw you, I have PLENTY of intimate interactions with members of the opposite sex! Sure, they usually aren't aware of it, but still . . . :P

  22. The 3 Stages of SCO Business Plan... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, they started with:
    1. License Linux for $699 a-piece
    2. ???
    3. Profit!!!

    Then it turned into:
    1. ???
    2. ???
    3. Profit!!!

    And now, finally it's:
    1. ???
    2. ???
    3. ???

  23. Re:An interesting question, indeed. by fbjon · · Score: 2, Funny

    Big businesses do not own massive climate controlled rooms filled with panties. We hope.
    That is Google's second best perk, actually.
    --
    True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  24. This has been happening for decades now. by liftphreaker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    IBM is not the only company to squeeze others for their profit. They killed Amdahl out of greed. They've done that in the software and hardware business many times over. It's not like IBM is an angel.

    For those of you who remember, it was not too long ago when Microsoft was the champion of freedom and IBM was the tyrannical oppressor.

    Microsoft is often bashed about this very same practice, squeezing PC makers to ship machines pre-installed with windows "otherwise....", however, don't forget the hundreds of other companies that resort to similar unethical behavior.

    That said, SCO asked for it. They are getting shafted and they only have themselves to blame. This time, I am all for IBM. When it comes to fscking with open source and Linux, take no prisoners and spare no quarter.

  25. Re:Wait, what? SCO?! -- what year IS this, anyway? by catman · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have a 4-digit UID and seven grandchildren, you insensitive clod!