Slashdot Mirror
How Microsoft Can Make Zune a Success
jcatcw writes "Zune had potential, but 5 months in it barely gets passing grades. According to the article, there are five things Microsoft must change: 1) The built-in Wi-Fi, aka 'the social,' was a bad idea. 2) Tell newbies what it can do. 3) Create a low-end, flash-based player. 4) Push subscriptions. 5) Make it sexy. A Microsoft representative said, about the wireless concept: 'We felt we were addressing the social aspect of music, and the research we've done has shown that people understand the concept that wireless enables sharing ... but the tagline, while provocative, hasn't meant a lot to consumers.'"
Make them out of gold and give them away.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
6) ???
7) Profit
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
Well, if you go read the Dvorak article below this one, a device's success is inversely proportional to that douchebag's opinion of the device and it's future.
So get him to hate it and you'll be all set.
They still make those?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Buy the leading competitor, slap a Microsoft sticker on it and call it 'innovation'?
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
There is a video on Youtube about building "Microsoft iPod". It is pretty much sums up why MS should not even be in music player business.
I got one, how about you just remove the DRM in the Wi-Fi?
In other words, make it an iPod? If MS really wants it to be an iPod killer, it has to beat it in every area, not match it. I think the WiFi was a good idea, but it doesn't have the sexiness or ease of use of the iPod.
I just saw this story: "How Microsoft can make the Zune a Success"
And right below it: "Dvorak to Apple: Stop the iPhone"
Logically, you would need to s/Microsoft/Apple, s/Zune/iPhone, s/Apple/Microsoft, s/iPhone/Zune to have proper Slashdot-conforming headlines
"I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
Wi-fi was a good idea (battery life issues notwithstanding). Crippling it to the point to where it was useless was the bad idea.
If it had useful Wi-fi and the abilty to install Opera on it, I would have bought one.
Nothing wrong with built in wifi...That's a solid feature, if it's not crippled. Imagine being able to really share music with people near you, or to do some limited web-browsing, or, even better, listen to internet radio (if there is any left), if you're near a hotspot.
Crippled as it is, though, it's worthless. It's always the same. Who wants to buy a player that gives you less than other players?
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Oh god I've got to start reading these comments right after the article is posted. First we've got this guy who busts on OP's grammar using the phrase "dune coon", which albeit racist as fuck makes me laugh to the point of epilepsy- and then we have this wiseass who says if you get Dvorak to hate the Zune you're good to go.
*wipes a tear away* Slashdot is good again...
+5, Truth
Give it away for free? That may increase their market penetration... maybe. Perhaps pre-load it with porn? nearlygod
The Tools Of Ignorance wanna be a tool?
"2) Tell newbies what is can do." Poor english teachers, at the rate we're torturing them today on /. , some editors are going to end up in prison for crimes against humanity...
It worked for Microsoft once...so how much could it hurt to try that again?
My Sysadmin Blog
I suppose we can now answer the question, "What can brown do for you?" with a solid negative answer.
Seriously, though - if they want to make the hardware a success, go find some balls and tell the recording industry they can take their DRM and shove it where the sun don't shine. Once they're done with that, make the thing scream over Wifi. g is good, n is better. Wifi sync. Bluetooth A2DP. Make it play most audio formats - it's not like there's a shortage of ram for the codecs - use the power used for DRM overhead to put in better decoding.
Quit trying to help the content industry screw the consumers, and it might have a chance - take that 11 digit warchest and help make DRM a thing of the past, and make the Zune the central figure in the battle.
Or just satisfy yourself that apple will always be cooler than you, and your products will always suck.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Well, 2 and an acronym: NO MORE DRM The popularity of the iPod wouldn't be anywhere near what it has become if not for easily shared music through ripped CDs and pirated music. They just don't get it folks. They refuse to see that their business will get better without DRM.
The market has spoken here. Subscriptions don't appear to be remotely exciting for most consumers. There seems to be only a small minority who want to pay monthly for access to a lot of different music rather than pay once to permanently have access to a specific set of songs.
I have a zune, had it for some time now. I do like it, i really do. But it is very frustrating too.
First off, there has been a skipping issue on some units (mine included), a workaroudn for it meant leaving display on 100% of the time, which did wonders for the battery. Plus, at times navigating in its menus, while they were laid out, it would just lag behind your clicks and presses, then suddenly catch up and do everything you did in frustration.
Okay, they had a patch in the works for this, firmware 1.3. Rumor had it would be out yesterday.. it actually did make it out today. But even the execution of this shows carelessness...
For example. the www.zune.net website was down 24 hours tuesday for maintenance. Okay, I understand sometimes you gotta do that, but you're telling me they couldn't put up a mirror? All attempts to do stuff on that day produced an error, and when it did, it would direct you to www.zune.net/support. which didn't come up. You didnt' get the maintenance message even unless you went to www.zune.net (even zune.net failed to do this).
Okay, the patch came out next day, the site's back up. It tells me I have an update. Says downloading... then returns an error message of "unable to update sync settings at this time". calling zune support they have me update the zune software. Same. They have me install zune software on another machine. Same. I told them from the start that I've seen others posting about this on some zune boards. uh-huh. Since I'd redone zune software from their own website, the guy now wants me to instead reinstall it from the original CD, which is lying somewhere in a box in a garage. Most drivers and software should like be obselete by the time you get them, but this is apparently their standard procedure, never mind how that is going to fix what isn't coming through from their website.
I'm still trying to get 1.3 on my zune now, some 10 hours after first trying. Oh, and btw, the patch notes they have for the 1.3 are verbatim copied from the patch notes from 1.2, including the note about how this includes everything from 1.1 and earlier. (as if 1.2 is not included). Again, its like how much care and effort are they putting into this.
Oh, but Zune has exciting things on the way, they announced a pink zune. That will get their cool factor going, no doubt.
Given what microsoft did in the past to people who adopted their tech (playsforsure), I have a real uneasy feeling that they'll release some new hardware that abandon the current zune.
I want to like this thing, I really do. But they make it so hard. I *do* like the zune pass, it makes most of the frustrations worth it for me, given that I'd downloaded what would have been about $6000-$7000 worth of songs directly if I'd bought them. I like not caring which version of a song I get. I like the look and feel of the player. But they find a way to kill it. Its like Isaiah Thomas is running the Zune team. I know J Allard is supposed to be in charge of it now, but is it really his main focus? I haven't seen any drastic changes since they put him back in charge of it, and quite honestly in his shoes I'd be wanting to go on to other things by now anyway.
That's pretty much how I feel about it at this time...
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
1. fix the wireless.
Seriously, that's it.
There are some details involved, so I'll be more specific:
add wireless shopping over wifi.
allow wireless transfer of any data file. (music/pics/vids/arbitrary data)
don't add DRM to media that didn't start with it. (seriously: how dumb was that?)
allow wireless syncing and reverse syncing. (moving tunes from the Zune to the PC)
allow the playback of wireless media that isn't done copying (just buffer it up and let it rip).
allow wireless transfers in the background. (while listening to something else, while doing something else, etc)
Do that, and you actually deliver an experience that the iPod doesn't.
The experience the Zune promised but failed at so horribly that it might as well not exist.
oh and it'd be nice if the Zune would mount as a generic USB volume, so it could be used to ferry about and wirelessly share arbitrary data files.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
How does the Zune compare to the Sony PSP, against just the PSP portable media player features?
And overall, which one is the better buy? What if you own an XBox, or if you own a PS3? How about cross-brand, is either portable anything but useless with the cross-brand console?
--
make install -not war
It depends on what your definition of 'is' is.
--WJC
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
1) The built-in Wi-Fi, aka 'the social,' was a bad idea.
Not at all, just very badly implemented, let users really share music rather than crippling it. This is actually the best selling point of the device as it is the only thing unique about the zune.
2) Tell newbies what it can do.
Hm, this is a poor recommendation, its like saying 'sell more of them'. I think their tagline must be changed ASAP, enter the social just doesn't make sense, as the MS rep knows, I'm sure they are already working on this one.
3) Create a low-end, flash-based player.
The best idea here, remove wifi and hd, make it thinner, add 4-8gb of flash and sell it for $99, that would be awesome.
4) Push subscriptions.
Don't you think they are already doing this, it doesn't matter how much you push subscriptions, if the person doens't have the device why the hell are they going to subscribe. Perhaps give away devices for subscription plans, like cell phones.
5) Make it sexy.
Yes turd brown was a very bad color, it is mute and relaxed and I actually like it, but it doesn't nothing for selling the things, or at least offer all colors including shiney ones, and not just crap brown quake ones.
"I have a Zune and a 4G color iPod. My iPod sits in the dock on the clock radio we have for it. The Zune is what I take everywhere with me."
And if I ever touch the iPod again, my dad said he'd throw another chair at me.
just MHO here, but the WiFi is possibly the most groundbreaking thing it does and it could be much more.
The problem is MS neutered it so badly that it is simply worthless. Ways to fix? Some of these were mentioned before.
A) Full sync over wireless
B) If a file does not have DRM on it, dont PUT DRM ON IT.
C) Allow people to have a "Sharing" folder or flag. People within wifi distance could then listen to a snip of songs that were sharable and request if they wanted a copy of the song.
D) Allow for an architecture that would let people set up a "broadcaster" to send/sell songs out to those who request them. For instance, at a live local show the band could have a laptop running in the merchandise booth that gives out a free song from the band to whoever has a Zune and is nearby. Maybe giving them an option to buy the album electronically. Places like Starbucks could then also be music retailers selling their music they play electronically.
E) Give people a "listen along" option other than "squirting" a song across. That way if you're doing something like working out with a friend you can listen to the friends play list at the same time they are.
Now admittedly, these won't happen because as has also been mentioned MS would have to tell the media industries to shove DRM requirements up somewhere which makes stuff the same color as some Zunes.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
The best part about that movie is that it was actually made by Microsoft. It was a sort of self-critique, prior to Zune, of "this is how we shouldn't do it."
That's what really does it for me -- they know how mediocre an organization they are, but yet they can't seem to stop being lame.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
1. Play for Sure???? Why doesn't the Zune support Microsoft's own standard for DRM'd music? That bolws a lot of trust that I will get to play my music in the future.
2. Work with Windows MediaPlayer. You know like Play for Sure devices do.
3. WiFI sync.
4. Allow me to sync with my 360 content. Why the heck do we have Play for sure, XBL market place, and the Zune Marketplace??????
5. Good car interfaces.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
The Zune 1.0 doesn't make money. It's the Zune 3.1 that makes money. Microsoft can afford a few unprofitable years pushing the Zune, XBox or whatever, because of their deep pockets. Eventually they'll get a better mix of product features and bundling with Windows to create something that people will choose. Just like the XBox wasn't a short term decision for Microsoft, instead looking toward the XBox 360 and successors for the real revenue stream. When dealing with Microsoft you have to remember that they don't make a killer product right out of the gate. They take what they have and build and improve to the point it becomes good or at least good enough. The first versions of IE were a me-too product. However, making it good enough and strapping it to Windows ensured its victory in the browser wars. Declaring Microsoft is "loosing the war" because generation 1 Zunes aren't selling great misses the fact that Microsoft will continue plugging away at it until the Zune (or whatever it morphs into) will be market dominant at some level.
Leave the gun, take the cannoli -- Clemenza, The Godfather
"Tell newbies what IS can do"
What "is" can do?!?
I'm still trying to figure out what the MEANING of "is" is!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Check your GRAMMAR. Maybe Firefox needs little green squiggles in s?
/. every here and there, but twice in one article?
;)
First, tense:
Zune had potential, but 5 months in it barely get passing grades.
I'm used to one little typo from
Tell newbies what is can do.
This bothers me, especially when the quality of articles isn't that great - it makes me want to stop reading sometimes. I hope you guys are using the 'Preview' button, and being editors I'm sure it couldn't hurt to have a friend proof-read articles before they go out (I mean, its what you are supposed to be doing for the people who submit articles, but...). It wouldn't hurt to reword that list, maybe even into a sentence even - its pretty choppy but thats just me splitting hairs now
Actually, that showed that Apple gave people the features they really wanted, and not the features overly-techy nerds decided they should want.
Here is where the gulf between Slashdot/Nerd culture and wider culture is most easily seen. Technofetishists see their computers and associated technology as an end unto itself: the fact that you got Beryl running on an unsupported video card, or that your mp3 player has two features no other one has, is enough to make it interesting. Most people in wider culture--the people you need to make a product a real hit--don't care about the technology in and of itself. They care about what the tech can do for them. So the fact that the iPod was and is relatively small and lightweight is a huge selling point. It easily fits into the pockets of a pair of jeans. I remember a lot of the early commentary on the iPod, a lot of which started with ,"well, my mp3 player is only 25% larger than the iPod. . ."
Although I have no insider knowledge, I will bet a month's Manhattan rent that Apple did a lot of research as to which features people really wanted in their portable devices before making the iPod. I'm sure they still do this. This is the reason they're so successful in the mp3 arena. It's not because of the usual Slashdot reasons, which usually boil down to 'people are dumb sheep and will buy whatever you tell them to.' It's because they sell a device which is simple to use and simple to understand.
The OSS community actually needs more thinking like this. The question shouldn't be, "why is Linux so cool?" The question should be, "how does Linux make my life easier than other operating systems?"
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
The ipod is low on features, but high on style. That just shows that features are not what make this kind of product. The ipod is iconic - you really struggle to find any way to dislodge that.
MS has always been high on features/low on style (eg. Office).
MP3 players are not technical products. They are fashion statements. What sane kid will walk around with a Brown Zune Turd in their pocket?
If MS has any sense they'll can Zune. If they make Zune2 then they'd better come up with something far better. Perhaps something based on http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7994750806.html
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Except that it doesn't enable sharing! At least not in a timely fashion and not without encumbering it with the most restrictive DRM ever.
The sharing idea is nice, but I wonder if it would have been more effective if it were implemented using Bluetooth -- allowing a Zune to essentially act as a wireless headphone to another. This way you can hear what I'm hearing and I can play DJ for a group of friends (if I had any). If you like a song you can tag it and download/purchase it later. This seems much more social and no one needs to get squirted.
Wanted: witty unique signature. Must be willing to relocate.
At it's core, the original concept for the Zune wasn't a bad one. It's the implementation of those ideas that have brought about failure.
First, design and develop the product from scratch. One of the reasons the iPod is a success is because Apple is involved in every aspect of that device's development. First, Apple has a clear design concept. Keep things simple. It drives the look and feel of both the hardware and software. Secondly, everything is done within a single company and there is obviously open communication between the various departments responsible for it's development. This ensures the software works seamlessly with the hardware. It's why the device is so easy to use. I'm convinced this is why a true competitor to the iPod doesn't yet exist.
So this was Microsoft's first problem. They took an existing Toshiba MP3 player, gave it a new shell and had to develop software around that. They should have set up a partnership with a manufacturer and had them build a device around their own specs. That's obviously a lot more expensive, but if they want to seriously compete with the iPod they can't compromise.
As I've mentioned, Microsoft limited by the fact that they were working around an existing device. But I think they made a few design mistakes. I actually thought the brown version wasn't too bad. But I do agree, brown isn't usually on the top of anyone's list for colors they'd like to see electronics come in.
I imagine the decision was made to go with unconventional colors to steer away from everyone trying to knock off the iPod's color scheme. I do tend to find it annoying that everyone just copies what Apple does. Apple's products look nice, but there's untold potential for different and equally attractive designs.
In general I thought the Zune was attractive. But it doesn't quite have the elegance of an iPod. Interestingly, although it isn't really much larger than an iPod. But it looks gigantic whereas the iPod looks smaller than it is.
And of course, another big flaw in the Zune is limited functionality. Well, it's more of a problem that Microsoft promoted the hell out of some features, like WIFI, but then crippled the hell out of them with DRM crap.
Contrary to what Apple's marketing department claims, Apple doesn't really innovate. They don't try to implement all the latest features into their products. However, I think that's what makes them so successful. What features their products do have work extremely well and are easy to use. Apple knows how to keep things simple.
Given how Microsoft does things I don't think this is a problem they'll ever be able to overcome.
If they ever decided to make something like this, in which the WiFi could be used to access the hard drive in the Zune, for use as a small portable NAS (for everything from wirelessly syncing media to it, to showing up in My Computer as a wireless hard drive for transferring data), along with a bit of Outlook integration (contacts and email reading), I'd be there. It should be technically capable of doing all this now, it just needs the software and a bit of vision.
Stasis is death. Embrace change.
Such a capable player in terms of hardware, but you can only use the WiFi to share songs if you know someone else who has a Zune!?
Granted there may be some security aspects to having a player which can synchronise over the network or do rudimentary web browsing even if it's just to browse the URGE store, what about the ability to plug it right into your digital camera and offload the photos, does it do TV output like the iPod, could it play standard MPEG4/AAC video (like the iPod) rather than WMA (no reason why all the Zune tools can't stick to WMV/WMA though, the same way nobody has to play URGE WMA rather than MP3). What about plugging it into your HiFi and streaming from Windows Media Player 11?
The quote points out incredibly well what the problem with "the social" was: it was a tagline, nothing more. In order to run "the social" as the tagline for the launch campaign, Microsoft marketing had to ignore:
Eh...I've ranted about this so many times I can't rant no more. If you actually want to read more about it, check out the Zunebox Proposal or the catalog of failure and incompetence that is the blog posts I've written about the Zune's marketing.
* * *
It is a dada story -- it has no moral.
I think the current subscription pricing is amazingly compelling...
Lets say most music fans own 100 cds, and perhaps they paid an average of $12 a disc for them. That's a one time investment of $1200 and they get to keep the music forever.
Now if you take that $1200 and put it in a savings account at 5%, then you should get back $60 year. I pay $60/year for my Yahoo Unlimited subscription.
Hence unlimited music forever costs the same as having 100 cds forever. Now it's possible that market forces will change the pricing of subscription services and it's possible that your CDs will no longer be playable, but I find subscription music to be very compelling.
It's all about one single feature: "usability". It's a feature that is subjective, and so, it's something that is always left off of bullet-point charts. The iPod is more successful than it's competitors simply because it is easier to use than any of its competitors.
The cake is a pie
1. It must be physically smaller than iPod of the same capacity
2. It must have click wheel or some other sort of touch sensitive technology that allows me to intuitively navigate and quickly change volume.
3. Wi-Fi sharing must work over the internet. I mean, really, why the fuck not?
4. It must be able to stream music from my PC wirelessly.
5. It must cost $50 less than iPod.
6. A marketing campaign without penises and asses in commercials.
Tall order? You bet. But that's what you have to do when you're entering a well established market.
There others tro share with, not many granted.
The problem is MS, once again, does not understand the user, or one of the key reasons the user is using the product.
1) Don't interupt someones song whenever someone wants to conect. Flash something on the screen in case thre watching it, let them turn off any indicator, and allow them to let iother people dump music for later review.
Put the power in the users hands.
2) People listening to music are saying "I am not interested in what sounds are around me."
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Five things msft invented:
1) Lying to the US-DoJ with video-taped testomony - and getting away with it.
2) Astroturf campaign which included letters from dead people - and getting away with it.
3) Hiring dying micro-cap companies to file bogus lawsuits, and make outragous claims against the competition - and getting away with it.
4) Creating fake think-tanks that insist the msft is always right, and any action against msft would be anti-capitialist - and getting away with it.
5) Secretly funded, rigged, benchmark and TCO "studies" - and getting away with it.
microsoft couldn't make a sexy product if they stuck a fuckable vagina on it.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Comment intentionally left blank.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.