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Orkut In Pact With Indian Law Enforcement
food4thought writes "The Economic Times reports that Orkut has signed a pact with Indian Cyber Crime Cell. They have now pledged to block any 'defamatory or inflammatory content', or hand over IP address information to police if asked.' Deputy Commissioner of Police (enforcement) Sanjay Mohite said the pact means they do not have to go through the lengthy process of asking the Central government to communicate with Orkut. The practice so far has been to first send a request to the Centre's computer emergency response team in New Delhi. This team processes the request through its channels and even if a forum is finally blocked, the "culprits" still remain untraceable as no IP addresses can be obtained ... "Now we can do away with the process and not just directly ban content but also obtain details of IP addresses and service providers quickly," Mohite said.' How long before we see these 'informal arrangements' elsewhere?"
Seems like Google's moto of "Do no evil" has been replaced with "Do more profit"
As size approaches Microsoft, alignment approaches Evil.
Thanks.
Now it'll be impossible to post "holy cow!" anywhere on Orkut...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Will anyone sponsor me to submit my 'one-click arrest' patent?
Is helping authorities identify hate speech censorship?
What's an Orkut?
On reading TFA, sounds a bit flaky...
"The pact, which is actually an "informal arrangement" called the Priority Reporting Tool, comes as a big surprise to internet users as Orkut has succes, just thsfully blocked attempts by various countries to control content."
"Now we can do away with the [old, slow, but govt. controlled] process and not just directly ban content but also obtain details of IP addresses and service providers quickly...the IP addresses will enable the [police] cell to track down people who have posted messages and book them if the need arises, police officials said."
No mention of legal oversight etc.
Mind you, perhaps we'll all gotten too blasé about the supposed freedom & anonymity of the 'net. After all, if you defame someone in traditional print, you can be sued in most places if it's not fair or truthful. Still, as I said, the smart badboys aren't going to be worried about this...plenty of internet cafés and open (or openable) hotspots around..
Orkut is like Myspace for Indians (and Brazilians, Pakistanis). Every one of my Indian friends (I am Indian too) is a registered user on orkut. I guess that says a lot about this article's impact.
Thanks for the link - funny!
...and I'm fucking pissed.
This is the worst sort of intimidation. Bal Thackeray is a politician. If content against him can be censored, we've reached the limit. The government already blocks websites it deems "hateful". Unfortunately, the definition of hateful includes anyone who dares to criticise the communists, or Islam. The current government stays in power because of the support provided by the communist parties, so they can get ridiculous things like this passed.
Simply put, this is the first step in an exercise which promises to put an end to freedom of information on the internet in India as we know it. There was an incident where, some time back, the whole of blogspot was blocked. The government doesn't run a firewall a la China, they just ask ISPs to do it. Because there exists no independent ISP (all private players have to lease bandwidth themselves from the government - it's a state monopoly), they have no choice but to comply.
I am so completely pissed.
How are we suppose to protect civilians with those pescky civil rights getting in our way? It will be so much easier to protect people when we lock them up in jail.
</sarcasm>
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Yeah, the Indian authorities want to keep people from kissing in public on Orkut.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Sincere question: does anyone (or anyone outside Brazil) still use Orkut? I haven't heard it mentioned outside of legal issues for a couple of years. I'd go look myself, but for some reason Orkut and MySpace are the two sites we have blocked at work.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
What would your reaction be if google started handing over IP addresses in China? Remind you a certain reporter and Yahoo?
Reading the details in the story. even the earlier "process" had no judicial oversight and was run by the federal cops. The only difference now is that the info can be requested directly by the state cops instead of going through the center, and it is thus faster.
A private company can choose to disclose information to the government if it wishes. Our two concerns is that a) the law contains safeguards against police abuse and b) the government is not prosecuting people for innocuous activities. Other than that, does India block access to offshore sites of similar nature? If not, set up your community in a country with decent laws.
(P.S: For all those of you who are wondering, Orkut is a (Google promoted) Friendster like social networking site that is very popular in the Indian subcontinent and in Brazil too. Recent surveys indicate that Orkut ranks 9th in terms of membership size, behind Myspace et. al.)
I was on Orkut... for less than 45 days. Deleted my account. ;) But then it's a trade-off that you need to calculate.
I personally feel that these *social networks* are nothing more than a waste of time.
My friends cite it as a useful resource to keep in touch with old friends... Comm'on. Isn't a mail enough if you *really really* want to be in touch? Communities (though not all) are crap too. The only thing worth on Orkut is the B'day ticker
I'd like to know how many people belong to my category (or I belong to their category);
and how many feel that these Orkuts/MySpaces really help them keep in touch with old friends? Or are even worth their time?
Blog
India has a strong and independent judiciary, democracy, human rights law (unlike Britain). It is more democratic and free than any other country at its economic level.
Thanks for the added jolt.
Get your dogma outta my yard!
I would give you a point for restating the importantly obvious. Have a great day. +1
Get your dogma outta my yard!
If anything similar happens in China there'd be a big wave of self-righteous outcry from the moral high ground, refreshing us again and again of George Orwell's 1984, reminding us how evil Stalin and Mao had been, and blah blah.
Where are all the blahs? I don't hear any.
Yes.. Western values including invading random countries, having the largest nuclear stock pile in the world?
...just a thought, but how do you propose to control a combined 2.4 BILLION people? Considering the sheer amount of HUMAN'S, I find it implausible to expect that EVERY ONE of them can be fully represented. This isn't to say that they don't DESERVE rights, just that with THAT many people, you have to balance security and freedoms VERY carefully, generally tipping towards the former.
Yeah Poles embrace human rights as well as the Roman Catholic church, which organized witch hunting, burnt Giordano Bruno, and are still against divorce and gay rights.
Can someone summarize for us non-Indians wtf Google is?
Thanks.
It's one of those rare informative posts :)
When I tried to access my Orkut account on the morning of April 16th, I got an "Unable to Connect" message. I just assumed that they were having some temporary problems. When I couldn't login on Tuesday, I thought maybe the company had tightened down the firewall, so I tried later that evening from home with the same result. So I did a Google search to see if anything had been reported, and found a Wikipedia entry. Other than that, it seems very few people noticed this security problem.
From Wikipedia: "On and around April 17, 2007 secure (https) access to the orkut login server was no longer available. This may lead to compromise of orkut accounts and by extension google accounts as well as gmail accounts since the password for login is transmitted via cleartext."
Sure enough, the http login comes up (I had been using a shortcut to the secure login site). Note that the password used by Orkut is tied to your gmail account, so sending your login password via plaintext may compromise your other Google accounts. If you use Orkut, and you have signed in since April 16th, you should immediately change your gmail password, and avoid Orkut until they fix the secure login.
Concealed Handgun License Courses in Plano, Texas
It's hard to believe some people are dismissing this so lightly. Did anyone read the article? (That's a setup for "Are you new here?".)
The article says they now have a mechanism for getting the IP addresses of any posters the police have a whim to harass with no legal process required whatsoever. What's even more egregious is what trips this: "...defamatory content about Dr B R Ambedkar, Chhatrapati Shivaji and Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray. "
These are (in order) an advocate for lower castes, a historical figure, and prominent Hindu-right politician. What nobody in this thread can explain is why should people be able to say whatever they'd like for or against these people or anyone else?
The fact is that there are liberals in every society (talking not about the policies of the US Democratic party or the UK Labour party, but about free and open political arrangements), and Google's total submission (where's the evillll tag on this, by the way?) just gives help to the wrong side.
If somebody had posted nuclear launch codes, or whatever, this might be OK, but for normal political flames? For shame, Google.
Um, India's legal system has ground to a halt because of the enormous backlog of legal cases that their "strong and independent judiciary" cannot handle.
This is evil. It is a great chill on freedom of expression. Not only is some nation able to censor citizens worldwide through Google's help but ISPs and possibly individuals all over the world are open to hassle and further chilling of freedom. Google, STOP THE EVIL now!
Is this the same human rights aware India that wants to jail Richard Gere because he kissed an actress in public?
Buhwahahahahaha!
People, you seem to forget google is yet another huge corporate behemoth whose main aim is to make money and make shareholders happy. If that means oppressing people and aiding repressive regimes, that's what they will do.
Don't forget, google has huge development centers in India and they need the presence there. They can't afford to p*ss off the Indian govt. If that means handing over your IP address, SSN, name, password, DoB, and medical history to the govt, they would do it.
"I think [insert politician name here] is unfit for public office" might be considered "hate speech" by the politician... and now can be reported as such to the provider.
A tool that makes it easier for politicians to harass people who don't like them is a censorship tool.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Isn't this the second time in the last 3 months that Indian police have announced increased powers of censorship over Orkut? One of these days reporters in India will get the clue and actually try to understand what it is they're reporting on. I believe last time this came about, Google pointed to their handy tool. I have got to imagine it's difficult to figure out what's actually going on in India, with such careless journalism.
That's rubbish. I could just as well ask "How do you propose to control 500 million people [in the EU], 300 million people [in the USA], 180 million people [in Brazil], 80 million people [in Germany], 60 million people [in the UK], 33 million people [in Canada], 16 million people [in the Netherlands], 7.5 million people [in Switzerland], 4 million people [in New Zealand], or even 310,000 people [in Iceland]"?
Seriously, it's not clear to me why it would be impossible to have a functioning democracy where everyone is fairly represented or ensure liberty *and* safety for 1,100,000,000 people when it's not considered impossible to do the same for 300,000,000 people - the factor's actually quite small when you think about it.
I don't know anything about India really, so I can't say much about their human rights record, how free Indians are and so on, but I don't think you should go around making excuses that one can't possibly have freedom or a democracy just because there's more than a billion people. That's FUD.
butter the donkey
well, I would say, whatever warrant the Indian court has issued is alright. If u go to some place, u r supposed to maintain the custom and dignity of the place, which Mr.Rechard forgot...and that is why, the court issued arrest warrant against him on the ground that he has broken the local custom. That's alright. India is not as open as west...in west, u can take a girl to a corner and start fucking her without worrying much...but that's not the case in India, or most of the Asian countries....and when u come to such countries, u should behave accordingly...otherwise, u will have to face consequences...thats quite expected.
The country recently went nuts because Richard Gere kissed a woman on the cheek (face cheek, mind you) going so far as to issue an arrest warrant for the actor:
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/article/3522
you have to balance security and freedoms VERY carefully, generally tipping towards the former
I for one will not cower in fear and willingly trade away freedom. I will not willingly bow down even before terrorists. The discussion of trading away freedom bad enough, but your DEFAULT EXPECTATION to tip against freedom, to first and foremost choose to give up freedom, that is appalling. You want to trade away your freedom, oh well. And I'm sure you're thinking in terms of willingly trading away your freedoms. But it really isn't about giving up your own freedoms. It is about you presuming to take away OTHER people's freedoms, and doing so by force.
I don't know about you, but I am an American and proud to be an American and I have the deepest respect for the men who founded this country and I am proud and have the deepest respect for the principles on which my country was founded, and for the people who have laid down their lives over the years to defend those principles and freedom. There will always be criminals and hazards. That is a simple fact of life. You can either eternally trade away freedom with each daily fear, or you can accept that fact of life and firmly establish rights and a freedom society and only then best pursue policing and security as best you can within the dictates and limitations of those rights and freedom.
I realize I am going on a bit of a random rant here, and that I am ranting about a single sentence of yours, and that the Slashdot story and the particular India situation is about the furthest thing from my mind right now, but you hit a sore spot for me. I am disgusted horrified at how many of my fellow Americans are so quick, even dedicated, to trade away rights and freedoms and principles and Constitution. The rightwingnuts in this country.... don't get me wrong there are some pretty kooky ideas on the radical left... but the rightwingnuts in this country so often seem do damn dead set on giving up their rights and freedoms and forcibly taking away everyone's else's rights and freedoms and tearing down the principles that make this country right and good. I am absolutely speechless at the rightwingnuts that have actually spoken up in support of torture. The irony of the rightwingnuts who so loudly identify with the military and patriotism and and bravery... cowering in fear at the word terrorist or any other threat... cowering in fear and so desperate to trade away rights and freedom and the constitution and morality. A terrorist like bin Laden can kill some people... and that is a fact that can *never* be eliminated... but he is absolutely incapable of destroying this great nation. Only *we* can destroy this nation. We can destroy this nation by cowering in fear, we can destroy the nation by giving away our rights and freedom and constitution and our principles and the moral highground and everything that makes the country good and worth protecting.
Terrorists are a problem, terrorists need to be dealt with, we went into Afghanistan and kicked ass for supporting and protecting bin Laden, but terrorists are not a threat. Not a real threat to the me or to the country. I will not cower and willingly give away rights and freedoms and the very soul of what makes my country good and valuable. I will not do it in the name of law enforcement against the routine threat of common criminals, and I will not do it not in the name of terrorists. People who think we should "generally tip" in the direction of eliminating freedom in the name of security... as you said in your post... that attitude is a threat that truly frightens me.
End Of Random Rant.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.