Slashdot Mirror
Two US States Restrict Used CD Sales
DrBenway sends us to Ars Technica for a report that Florida and Utah have placed draconian restrictions on the sale of used music CDs; Wisconsin and Rhode Island may soon follow suit. In Florida, stores have to hold on to CDs for 30 days before they can sell them — for store credit only, not cash. Quoting: "No, you won't spend any time in jail, but you'll certainly feel like a criminal once the local record shop makes copies of all of your identifying information and even collects your fingerprints. Such is the state of affairs in Florida, which now has the dubious distinction of being so anal about the sale of used music CDs that record shops there are starting to get out of the business of dealing with used content because they don't want to pay a $10,000 bond for the 'right' to treat their customers like criminals."
Makes me glad I live in New York, where there are used CD stores everywhere and the stoned counterperson barely notices you.
Hey! Is this first post? I think it is! Umm... W00t?
NO CARRIER
So much for buying used CDs from some dude at a garage sale. Is the MAFIAA going to go after garage sales, too? Where does the witch hunt end?
I moved to Florida roughly 10 months ago. This is the first I have ever heard of this. I've been googling around trying to find a reference to this in any type of local news media and I can't. Nothing so far. Maybe I'm missing it, but it seems like something of this magnitude would garner some attention.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
The article says "The Federal Trade Commission has scrutinized the music industry for putting unfair pressures on retailers who sell used CDs"... This seems to me to be similar unfair pressure, but this time it's coming from state governments. Is this sort of law even enforceable?
in 1995 when I still bought CD's. Let me know when they do this to used MP3's.
Why does it figure that one of the dumbest laws I've heard of in a long time would start there?
Florida, well... I don't even need to describe the dumb things that go on down there.
Utah? They're best known for things like the "Clean Port 80" act (all internet porn should go on one port!), crazy anti-tech laws, "Yarro's Law" apparently passed at SCO's behest, and SCO, where we have Brent Hatch behind some of the crazy laws, not to mention their senator Orin Hatch and his crazy ideas.
Now, there are lots of nice folks in both states, of course, but any state that allows SCO folk to help write laws, well, I have to think they're positively Utarded.
until the fascists outlaw that. I swear, I have long been a proponent of paying for my music. There are several out of print titles I've paid top dollar for on ebay and in the used section of the local record store. But if this shit becomes the norm, I'll start downloading everything for free, lawsuits be damned. Fuck these sons-of-bitches.
"The legislation is supposed to stop the sale of counterfeit and/or stolen music CDs"
This is clearly irrelevant, since they should then apply this to the sale of _any_ second-hand goods - any of which _might_ be stolen or counterfeit.
Even if they did that, what is the point of "in-store credit"? Will they then stipulate that said credit can _only_ be used for the purchase of _new_ media, rather than other second-hand media?
Gosh, I'm glad I only live in a US colony (Australia) instead of mainland US! It seems the RIAA-pists won't be happy until there's an income tax component for "expected music/media consumption."
Garth Brooks was pushing royalties for used CD sales way back when I had a shop that sold used CDs. This is right before he quit doing shit, so I guess he was just wanting some extra royalties on his old stuff. I thought it was a money grab then, and it is now.
Since I have always only bought used CDs, I guess now I will need to start downloading and burning all my music instead. No way I'm paying $20 for 2 good songs, and I don't want an ipod.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
So, except for the only store credit part, they're making them follow the same laws that pawn shops must follow here in Colorado? That is, valid ID and fingerprints are required as well as a 30-day holding period for all items. Working in a pawn shop, I can point out that CDs, DVDs, and video games (VHS is dead) and other common but low-value items are rarely even investigated by the police. Proving the ownership of such a generic type of item is futile. Un-serialized items in general are, really. Despite the annoyance, I still fully support the restrictions pawn shops are given and we -- the honest brokers -- fully try to insure that stolen items are returned to their rightful owners or are at-least unsellable.
Do you realise that when you buy a second hand album that the music industry thinks you're stealing that music?
After all, you've acquired a copy of the songs, but the artist has recieved no compensation from you.
*sighs* These people just do not understnad some conecpts integral to society (reuse, second hand sales, etc).
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
is telling. I think this affects me - while I don't often buy used CDs (sorry - my desires are too damn eclectic to be satisfied locally), I want the option. Does it affect others here, or are we all buying them off ebay, buying the tracks off iTunes, or simply downloading them?
Is this the RIAA trying to curb rights? Is this Garth's revenge? Or is it something less? And, anybody know where in Florida the police were investigating? Is there any way to have this looked at by the media? I think most people would care if the local news did a nice little piece about how their hard-earned tax dollars were being spent making sure Johnny couldn't buy a used CD, rather than #insert EVERYBODYPANIC.h
Ars, thanks for bringing this up.
(and hey, someone else comment - I can't believe that so few people care)
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
And yet you can still buy a firearm at a gun show in Florida with no background check, and police must destroy records on gun sales within 48 hours and are prohibited from maintaining gun sale records that could be used for gun tracing and criminal investigations.
What THE HELL is wrong with this country???
...Entire Florida population last seen flocking for Bittorrent, Limewire, and points north.
I though these were CDs, not guns!
If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
Quote from the attorney who was trying to fight the legislation, during the final court session he said, "That's the stupidest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft." The courtroom fell silent, even the judge was speechless.
TLF
P.S. Yes it's overdone but... fuck, I have nothing else to say to this than Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
They want your money any way they can get it. Inaccurate. They want your money every way they can get it.
I lived in Utah for 2 years and it's a very nice place. Far from a hellhole. Now the PEOPLE on the other hand....
"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it..."
I haven't actually put a commercial CD into a drive in a year or more, and all the ones I still own are long since ripped. I was thinking about selling all my CDs, but then my ripped copies would be illegal, and I'm one of those weirdoes who actually likes to pay fairly for what they have. So what do I do if I don't want the clutter? Throw them all into a landfill?
It seems like the days of the used CD store are almost gone anyway. Despite the DRM politics, it's awfully convenient to buy online. And with CDs so easy to rip and resell, used CD stores are little more than rent-to-steal shops these days.
E pluribus unum
Now this debate can happen all over again.
For the record, I was buying back CDs at a used record store in Washington State in the early nineties. We required photo ID. We wrote the information on your photo ID in a Big Scary Book. After we bought your CDs, we held on to them for 30 days. Then, after 30 days, we typically sold them. And it was no big deal. Didn't hurt business, didn't scare customers. Didn't have a damn thing to do with filesharing (I don't believe the original Napster existed yet). We caught a decent number of CD thieves by matching sales of odd CDs to lists of stolen CDs. It worked to everyone's benefit except maybe the thieves.
By the way, it's Really Freaking Obvious when someone's selling stolen goods. Seriously. We're checking the lists of stolen CDs before they even walk out the door. Thieves are idiots, and not subtle idiots either.
These laws are similar. They include a fingerprint provision presumably to combat fake ID's. I think that bit is unneccessary and odious (because, in my experience, we were able to catch all of our fake-ID-using thieves because they kept coming back). It requires a business permit. Sigh, whatever. It requires trading for store credit rather than cash. That's stupid--people selling their old CDs hardly ever want store credit, even if the value of that store credit is more than the cash. Reason? People sell their old CDs with "I'll finally dump these old CDs" on their mind. Buying new CDs is typically not what they want to do. We offered trade or cash to people, and most chose cash.
So it's basically a dumber version of a law that has existed for over a decade in my state. Big freakin' deal.
Courtney Love has a nice article on her take on piracy etc.
Her view on the issue is that the music industry is a huge, profiteering middleman and artists are swindled by them. She's of the opinion that for an artist, more exposure, however it comes, is a good thing and will lead to people buying more stuff.
The music industry is whining just because they're being cut out from a direct experience between an artist and the listener.
The stated issue behind the restrictions on reselling CDs seems to be that they are a likely good to be stolen and resold. I suppose that this does make sense, and that CDs should have the same restrictions put on them that any other good sold in a pawnshop should.
But there seems to be hints that this is just a way for the recording industry to stop the reselling of CDs.
But there would have to be a closer studying of the legislation and the people backing it to find out which one is the real reason this is being pushed.
On the face of it, though, I find it a little unlikely that this is an anti-theft measure. Especially the part about "only to be used for store credit". It seems unfair to target CDs like this, when there are plenty of other things: cars, guns, jewelry, musical instruments, home electronics, sporting equipment, that are also likely targets of theft (I would think all of those named would be better targets for theft than CDs), but (AFAIK), there isn't any specific laws that say you can't sell your skis or guitar for cash.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
I AGREE COMPLETELY!!!
First those Republicans required those Parental Advisory stickers on CDs, then that Republican President signed the DMCA in law, now this. If those Republicans keep this up I'm moving to France!
All kinds of things get fenced. By the same logic, we should ban selling any used goods. That used VCR you just bought, why that could be the proceeds of a crime.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Who sponsored the bills? Who were the biggest contributors? Is this a law enforcement driven thing or is "Big Media" attempting to stiffle the used media market to maximize their profits? What will this mean to Amazon.com?
You thundering moron. Wisconsin is run by the democrats, the idiot governor here doesn't trust good people to be honest and instead caves to criminals and the RIAA. Why don't you actually get some facts before spewing your partisan crap.
We've been (this) close, twice, to getting rid of the criminal Doyle, but for reasons dictated by emotion rather than logic, the idiot got elected and then reelected. Yet he trusts criminals to be the only ones armed, and the RIAA to dicate how we listen to our CDs. So, maybe, just maybe, you could look at the actual situation next time, before guessing that it's the eeevul Republicans' fault, mmmkay? Thanks awfully.
That will make people stop downloading music!
Oh, wait..
No.
It won't.
Duh.
Not Free SF Reader
this move is in part related to drug use.
I worked in retail management with a focus on loss prevention. The connection between hard-core drug addicts and reselling stolen multimedia was insane.
90% of the chronic offenders we prosecuted cited drug money as their motivation and the resellers in New England, my market, were often little more than enablers. One employee of a major reseller in the area told me 'off the record' that a guy we had busted recently came in several times a day for several MONTHS with DVD box-sets still shrink wrapped and stickered from one of our stores. When I asked why they didn't call us he just shrugged.
These new regulations are short-sighted and egregious, but it is possible the RIAA is not solely to blame. The war on drugs is still going on and from what I saw, shoplifting multimedia is a habit of choice for drug offenders.
Some numbers:
It was not unusual to see multimedia loss numbers from a single location at my former company top $100k for a single year. New box set titles @ the time I was doing this resold between 40-60 cents on the dollar within the first two weeks of release. So a single box-store multimedia outlet could have been subsidizing local criminals with an average of +/- $50k/year.
I don't like the new laws, but the RIAA is most likely not solely to blame.
In fact, this could be exactly what we need. This is clearly such a ludicrous measure that if it goes into law everywhere, the apathy-riddled consumer might actually sit up and notice. When average Jimbo down the street gets hit with fees and taxes and fingerprints and anal probes while trying to sell his old stash of CDs, there should at least be a little more awareness about what the RIAA f**kheads are trying to do. Hopefully, that will lead to consumer action and eventually enough agitation to overturn this measure and also place some iron clamps on what the RIAA can and cannot do.
In other words, the more ludicrous the little battles are, the better chance we have of winning the war. Now the lawyers here can strike me down.
An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
Put down your crack pipe and your beer bong and pay attention. It isn't just Republicans. It is the entire political class. Follow the money and you will see that it ends up on both sides of the aisle. And so does the origination and support of MAFIAA protective legislation.
Why does Slashdot only report only bad legislative news? Why don't they report all the good news? It's just like Iraq: the liberal media only focuses on the few (dozen) bombs that go off every day, while ignoring all the good news that is overflowing from there.
Why doesn't Slashdot report all the good news? Like the PATRIOT Act, and the USA Act (I am no lawyer so I haven't read them, but the names really tell me all I need to know). I am sick of people acting as if politicians don't always look after my best interests.
If you commies don't like our system, why don't you all go live in Afghanistan?!
Lies about crimes
If the record companies really want to play this game, then I say let them. If, when i purchase a cd or DVD, I am only actually buying a license to view/listen to the content contained on it, not the actual disk itself (the media companies could argue that the media is free, and that they are retaining ownership of it, you are buying a license), then so be it. However, now that I own the license to use this particular arrangement of 1s and 0s, it is my right as a licensee to obtain it in any form that i see fit. I can fire up my favorite NNTP reader and download it. I can keep a copy of it on my ipod, on my work computer, on my friends computer, on my mt-daap server, in my car etc. Also, if at any point i decide that i don't want it any more, i can return the leased media storage device to the copyright holder, and have my license to use it revoked. For a full refund that is. It will become part of the cost of their business to provide us with the CDs/DVDs/Blue Ray Disks/Tapes/Mp3s/whateverthehellthemarketdemands.
k?
NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, there is a loophole! Unfortunately, the law applies to retailers only! People can go to a CD swap meet or a flea-market and freely buy and sell CDs directly with other people; a process known as "person to person" in the parlance of the common folk; all (and I can't state this emphatically enough) without the benefit of oversight by the Recording and Music Industry, and the benevolent guidance of our friends therein! Intolerable! CD shows are wild-west open-air bizarres where rogue CD and DVD owners snicker at the laws and exchange used entertainment media as if they owned it! This outrageous behavior must be brought under control!
I did, ladies and gentlemen, mention the "person to person" aspect. May I remind my esteemed colleagues about the known threat to our families, our schools, our re-election financing, and our very way of life by the criminals, perverts, and terrorists that use these so-called "P2P" computer programs to exchange copyrighted material, 93% of which is pornography, over the computerized internet tube. Hooligans, drug-users one and all, and of the same ilk as these CD swappers!
I say it's high time we closed this loophole, and bring peace, justice, and accountability to these havens of immorality. The lash of reason must be brought to bear, and the firm hand of democracy must crush this evil trend before it destroys all that we have labored so hard to impose.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
I am a libertarian socialist myself. I am completely unrepresented.
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
u-bend
Just listen to local LIVE bands. If what's on the radio & CD's sucks, do something else entirely! Do your own thing! THINK for yourself!
What exactly are you getting at here? A used record is just a used record. You can buy a Britney Spears CD today and sell it tomorrow as used. It's not your right to be entertained. If you don't enjoy something anymore, don't use or pay for it anymore! It doesn't give you a right to steal it!
But we are talking about buying real CDs, are we not? With your reasoning, would it also be illegal to give away CDs that you have already purchased? You don't have to be entertained constantly!!! Support your local artists directly!
Maybe your friends need it. I have no friend who needs 24/7 entertainment. Support my local artists? I listen mostly to radio music and don't give a shit about local artists. Why should I support them just because they create music? In that case, I want them to support me because I am a graphical artists. I demand that they buy my paintings.
The issue is not that we don't want artists to get paid. Quite frankly, there is a lot of great music that is not produced by "local bands" and I like diversity. I don't mind paying for it, but I refuse to sign a contract on what I may and may not do once I purchase a CD. If I have bought it, I want to be able to sell it to anyone I want without having anyone watching my back.
Full Tilt
That's why pawn shops take your name and your address (and your prints in some places) and have a list of serial numbers for when the cops come by - for that exact reason.
I'm not advocating the Florida law here, I think it's retarded, but I'm pointing out that there are already many restrictions on the sale of easily ripped-off used goods.
What the hell is up, moderators? You mod this excerpt from the Declaration of Independence as "Funny," and mod another funny post as "troll"... Why are you guys moderating completely backwards?
Don't really care either way. Everything's getting ripped and stuffed on a thumbdrive. So it's either draconian DRM that makes everyone a criminal or it's a new business model for the record companies. End of story. You can argue the merits of it either way. I don't care, the CD is nearly done and there's nothing the state of Florida or the RIAA can do about it.
I haven't bought a CD in four years, and I'm older than God. If I'm not buying them, I can't imagine who is. Actually the last one that came into the house was a DVD from my son, given as a birthday gift in November '05, and I wanted every single track that was on it plus the extras. It was a special exception. The only CD's I can envision buying now would be classical or rare, old jazz--but with the arrival on the scene of new turntables, the vinyl may yet emerge from the cellar.
My first question, anyway, is this: What is the difference between secondhand CD's and secondhand books? Should we be looking forward to having our reading controlled in the same way they want to control our music selections? Is it time to spend a paycheck at Thriftbooks just in case?
My second question is more technical: What does one need to know to intelligently purchase an "analog" tunes system these days? (I assume that would be turntable and some associated accoutrements. In the dark ages it would've involved pre-amps, amplifiers, speakers, etc.) If you have one, are there suggestions or references for ripping tracks off that treasured old vinyl to be played on something more portable like an ipod?
Taking the long view, this is just a symptom of how desperate the music mafia has become. It's another nail in their coffin. I'm not surprised that Utah is one of the states. You can apparently gull their legislature into enacting just about anything by playing on their paranoia.
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
> You don't need music like milk and bread.
Oh god no! Don't tell them what our weakness is!
O <---- Joke
O
/ | \
| You
|
/ \
I used to manage a GameStop here in Florida, and there were certainly restrictions on used media, but it wasn't quite as obnoxious as the article made it sound--but it was still obnoxious.
We didn't give cash because of the extra hoops we would have to jump through. It was only if we gave cash that we would be required to go through some of the more painful steps, such as holding the items for 30 days. Giving store credit, we only had to record the name, address, and driver's license number... no fingerprints (I don't recall a fingerprint requirement at all... maybe the author was conflating the two states' laws).
And it was definitely a problem. We had guys who would come in with books of game DVDs from Blockbuster within a couple of days of their release. We couldn't do anything about it, though, because Blockbuster does sell games and we had no basis for accusing them beyond intuition. I'm not sure if it warrants that degree of meddling by the government, but they weren't inventing the problem.
As someone who worked in Florida local media (WTSP-TV in St. Pete), I can tell you that Florida media completely ignores stories of magnitude and focuses on the retarded, weird shit.
Have you heard about how Fox News WTVT (Ch 13) tried to squash news about the health risks Monsanto's BGH, bovine growth hormone, has? A husband and wife team of reporters spent months talking to ranchers, healthcare workers, and scientists about BGH. They were about to air the report when Monsanto called Fox and wanted to review and approve the story first. Seeing as how Monsanto's a big advertizer they got their way. But the reporters refused to let the company edit it so they were fired. Taking the firing to court they sued Fox and eventually won.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Don't be a dumbass: when a republican controlled congress passes a law unanimously, you don't veto it - it just makes you look weak. The Republicans did pass this law. Thank them next November.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
I'm a libertarian who believes in completely nationalizing the power grid.
I am a Libertarian and I support personalizing the power grid.
FalconShould there be a Law?
If the brick and mortar establishments weren't an improvement in some regard over online selling (even if that improvement is simply consumer awareness), then they wouldn't be in business. So the answer is nothing, but that doesn't mean that the law doesn't still make the world (well... Florida and Utah at least) a worse place to live. Thanks again legislators!
Relax I just want some peanuts.
er, I meant "Just buy the others and burn your tunes to those".
Jeez, I think I ate so many mashed potatoes at dinner that it affected my brain.
Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling Everything You Know Is Wrong!-Weird Al
In my town, we used to have a bookshop that rented audio CDs. They also rented videos which was really the main thing they rented. CDs were kind of a small sideline.
The store was owned, operated by and catered to a particular "ethnic" group. Nobody else ever shopped there. Ever. CD rental is totally common and legal back in the home country, which is where all the CDs and videos originated (and the books too but they didn't rent those). The record industry back home supported rentals and had no problems with it. It was a common way of doing business. While this store was in the US, it didn't sell or rent _anything_ made by US companies. Nothing from RIAA or MPAA. Hell, nothing in the store was even in the English language. Very very ethnic.
Renting CDs may sound nuts but this was back in the days before ripping tools, before MP3, before there were CD burners, so you couldn't exactly DO anything but listen to a CD or make a tape out of it. Lord knows I tried but there were no options.
Someone reported them -suspicion is a Muzak rep doing one of their "store inspections" was behind it -and the CD rentals went away. Apparently CD rental is illegal in the US? Not sure. If that is the case, then how are video games (a CD format) and DVD rentals legal?
So who was hurt when they stopped renting CDs? Only the customers because they lost access to the music from back home. The RIAA gained nothing because it wasn't their music anyway. These people don't understand or care about English-language music. They just wanted the music from home.
Eventually the store dried up and blew away. Rather sad really.
Hypothetically assume you're in desperate need of money fast - be that a gambling addiction where nasty guys you owe money to are about to break your legs, you're a junky or you accidentally just installed WGA, lost your copy of XP and you need a working install if you're going to join your WOW guildmates tonight.
In short, you're the stereotypical opportunity criminal.
What are you going to steal?
TV? Too big, a bitch to carry out, hard to off load immediately. Craig's List or eBay will work... in about a week. Completely useless for cash right now.
DVD player? With many going for $40 new, you really think you'll get much for it?
Console? If you need to sell it quickly, places like CL or eBay are useless. A pawn shop isn't going to be interested in a last gen one though you might get something for a next gen unit but nowhere near its actual value.
Silverware? Do people even still have silverware?
Car? Great if you actually know someone that wants to buy a stolen car. Otherwise not something you can instantly turn in to cash.
Stereo? Bulky as hell, lucky if you get $10 a piece for it at a pawn store.
CDs? Throw a shelf full in to a bag, walk down the street looking innocent, go to any of dozens of music stores, game stores (EB certainly takes used CDs), etc. Off load for $50, no questions asked, within about fifteen minutes of deciding you need cash and breaking in to a house.
Can you name anything else you can carry out so easily, offload so easily, without needing any connections whatsoever, without having to wait several days for an auction to complete?
Now, granted, desperate people aren't going to be any less desperate so they'll simply move to a different type of crime - this not being about risk vs. long term reward. Still, RIAA conspiracies aside, it's hard to beat CDs as an instant gratification theft medium.
When all the CDs are outlawed, only the outlaws will have CDs?
Study everything, you'll find something you can use - Jason Bourne
There's a store in Missoula, Montana that has quite a different view of the used CD business: http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2005/10/31/ente rtainer/ent02.txt
Yes, you can still get DVDs for authoring which are 3.95GB or 4.7GB but embody the format used in pressed masters (allowing CSS) instead of that DVD-R stuff. There's a fair explanation about it here.
Most of the stuff on
"They want your money"
Sounds better with no qualifiers.
bang goes my karma... again...
My parents used to own (and I used to work in) a Pawn Shop in the U.S. Every state has specific laws concerning pawn shops, but in general they are similar. First of all, if what you describe above happened, the criminal wouldn't take it to a pawn shop, even with the remote, cables, manual, and box it came in. When a pawn shop buys or lends on (there is a difference) anything with a serial number, it is recorded in a log along with the pawner's drivers license number and name, and given to the police periodically (in our case it was every week). Sometimes if alot of items were stolen, the police would come by the day after to look at our logs. Real criminals know this and would never sell electronics (and especially guns) to a pawn shop. They'll take it to the flea market or something similar where no one keeps records.
We only had one instance (in several years) of anything stolen coming through our shop. This is what happened: A kid around 18 or so came in with some expensive stereo equipment (higher end than what you can buy at Best Buy). My stepfather immediately thought something was wrong. He explained to the kid that he would only buy the equipment if it wasn't stolen. Furthermore, if it was stolen, he had the kid's drivers license info, which would be turned over to the police, and the kid would certainly go to jail. He insisted that it wasn't stolen and accepted a reasonable offer from my stepfather. A few days later the police came by and inquired about the equipment because it was stolen. The kid ended up going to jail because he was stupid. I don't think this deterred him from stealing again, but he now knows not to sell anything to a pawn shop.
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
I searched the Utah website, and didn't find anything. I called the Utah state legislature, and they didn't know what I was talking about. So I called John Mitchell, who was a source for the article.
He kindly pointed me to Utah House Bill 402 which seems to cover any second hand store.
-John Fenley
Ha. Just the opposite in Portland Oregon. Here pretty much anything goes.
7 .html
Here's an article link http://www.portlandcopwatch.org/PPR37/secondhand3
And here's a choice snippet:
In September, 2005, subsequent to a raid by the FBI on ten secondhand shops, Detective Sergeant David Anderson sent Chief Foxworth a memo expressing serious concern regarding "a culture of acceptance within the Police Bureau in which our officers know that these shops are engaging in illicit business." Sergeant Anderson referred to these shops as "little more than legalized fencing operations" (Oregonian, October 2).
My apologies if I have slighted the subtle distinction between a "secondhand shop" and a "pawn shop".