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FCC Approves iPhone
An anonymous reader alerted us that the iPhone is one step closer to hitting shelves. "The Federal Communications Commission approved Apple Inc.'s iPhone, clearing the way for the combined phone and music player to hit the shelves. Apple expects to begin selling the phones in late June. Some of the FCC documents confirm a few features of the phone, including it will have Bluetooth and Wi-Fi and will operate in the 1900MHz and 850MHz frequency bands. The phone uses GSM (Global System for Mobile Communications) technology and the low-speed GPRS (General Packet Radio Service) wireless data standard."
No 900/1800 GSM. Slow GPRS. No user-installable applications. Lame.
At least it has wireless!
Apple asked that other documents such as diagrams, a schematic of the radio, the radio bill of materials and operational descriptions remain private indefinitely. The FCC agreed to the requests.
Anyone else miss the old days when every radio came with a schematic? They were usually under the battery cover or in the manuals. It really helped spark an interest in electronics, at least for me.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
Vermont doesn't get to play with the new toys like the rest of the kids. Unicel has a firm grasp (sp/grasp/stranglehold) on the GSM network up here. As of current, and for what ever reason, they will also not be selling the iPhone. One would say go with Cingular or T-Mobile or which ever carrier applies, but one can't do that without penalty as well for not being on home network. If 50% of your calls, or more, are in non-network coverage areas for Cingular, you get the 'sorry-we've-dropped-you-as-valued-customer' letter.
Looks like there's a lot of room for competition (or upgrade models).
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Will we be able to write our own apps for the iphone? Would be great to use it for VOIP! And many many other things!
I don't see why this is labeled flame bait as he pointed out important limitations. I used cingular/at&t and due to gprs i never even thought about using serious netapps through the cellphone due to low speed and high cost.
For my current sprint phone I cancelled net features because it was barely used on this type of phone but it's much cheaper and faster. EVDO type networks (Verizon, sprint, etc.) are far better then what AT&T are using. My greatest disappointment about the iphone was the carrier. Hip internet phone with the worst major carrier (digital broadband wise).
Hmmm... Pie...
Another techie making the mistake that the checklist of features is all there is to a product.
I almost wish it had just been unequivocally rejected (as impossible as that is), because that would have been just about hi-larious.
After all the hype... "Um, never mind about that iPhone. We'll get another iNoun out in a year or two!"
I've been using EDGE through T-Mobile and it's much faster than GPRS. Not sure how it compares to EVDO and I won't vouch for AT&T's network, but it's misleading to tag the iPhone with "slow GPRS" when it supports EDGE.
Hmmmmm. What part of 'Apple cache'' didn't you read? Sure, distribution is nice. Marketing plans are nice. But it's not the same as slogging MP3 players and MacBook Pros. I doubt Xserve's do very well, despite their margins and accessorizing. Are they making money on media? Perhaps a little. Hardware margins are tight, and they're asking a fat wad of cash for a phone, even with the checklist. I wish them luck, but they'll be bruises.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
So this is coming out with cingular right? Where's EDGE or 3G? Congratulations Apple, you've released a phone that would have been competitve in 2003.
What part of 'Apple cache'' didn't you read?
I read it and I also think you're wrong. Not everybody buys Apple products for their "cache" [sic]. Some of us buy them because they WORK BETTER, and that does not mean "has the most checkbox features".
It only works on 850/1900 in the US because that is all that is used. It also supports 900/1800 according to Apple.
Apple are now selling DRM free tunes. You ask how much music downloads may cost, and although I don't know the answer, I'm not sure how they'd justify DRM'ing music on the iPhone while telling us music should be DRM free for the iPod.
My soon to be one year old SonyEricsson phone supports GPRS/EDGE and GSM 850/900/1800/1900 (but not 3G, it was a cheap phone), it also has bluetooth, but not wireless, it also can play music and supports memory card. So if the Euro version of the iPhone supports only 900/1800 and only has GPRS and no EDGE. Just bluetooth and Wireless as a extra. Then the iPhone is still at least one year behind the newest models on the GSM market.
In my opinion, I highly beg to differ (this post is long, so please bare with me if you want).
Apple.com has this introductory product description:
iPhone combines three amazing products -- a revolutionary mobile phone, a widescreen iPod with touch controls, and a breakthrough Internet communications device with desktop-class email, web browsing, maps, and searching -- into one small and lightweight handheld device.Let's look into this for a moment. Keep in mind that Apple is most likely targeting or at least attempting to re-acquire most of the audience that also bought their iPod products:
A revolutionary mobile phoneFor us "geeks," this phone is probably nothing but the ordinary. We have already seen devices that surpass their "revolutionary" claims, at least specification wise. But it has no physical keypad. This is important. How usable is this "screen keypad" (something that has been tried, and has failed, before) and how well will the public receive it? I honestly expect that this technology is indeed "revolutionary," since their staple claims are normally their strongest and perform undoubtedly better than their competitors.
A widescreen iPod with touch controlsSo Apple could market this as a quasi-evolutionary, no -revolutionary, upgrade to their current iPod line and possibly garner their old audience. Or they could entice the many who have been wishing for a touch-screen iPod with widescreen (the Zune finally dies here) with this product and let them have a phone on the side. Speaking as a "geek," I know I've seen oodles of phones with music players and MP3 capability, but it would be a lie for me to say that the majority of them are worth replacing an iPod or similar (for reference, check the RAZR with iTunes line and see what I mean...)
and a breakthrough Internet communications device with desktop-class email, web browsing, maps, and searchingMany people here have already bashed this phone for its somewhat antiquated connections to the Internet. But how many people in the United States use the full power of mobile internet on their phone? I know few who do more than purchase ringtones and other commodities for their device (if even that), and maybe do a quick search for something of the moment, like movie times (which are carrier-catered in most cases). The iPhone integrates this experience straight into the UI so a normal person doesn't even have to really open a browser to do the simple things. Want to search for a location? Just "tap" the search button. Need to find movie times? Can probably be configured there too. I wouldn't even be surprised if there is are OS-wide search functions built-in, which is something that few, if any, independent phone carriers have been able to accomplish (at least not with smartphones, which are still in their infancy).
Its obvious that the iPhone is up against lots of veterans in the field. But Apple is the MASTER of usability, which is what makes the bulk of the phone experience. This phone should and deserves to do very well.
it even has the iSink which combines the features of the kitchen sink and bathroom sink...
Linux fixes all the cracked Windows.
I tried the Cingular EDGE service a few months ago, and it was awful. All web access was routed through a proxy server somewhere that degraded image quality to accelerate download speeds. It was minimully better than dialup and I cancelled the service two days after signing up. With 3G service it would have been better IMHO.
The iPhone has some cool features, but with crippled wireless hardware it is going to be an uphill battle trying to compete with any other smart phone that Cingular may sell that has 3G support and can leverage off AT&T's recent investments. This campaign looks like a trainwreck leaving the station.
You have wireless. You have more space than a Nomad. And you still don't "get it"?
Lame.
EDGE's theoretical maximum is 473 kbps, while EVDO's is 2.4 Mbps - five times as fast. Real world performance is more like 800-1200 kbps, which is still four times the real-world performance you can expect from EDGE.
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Correction: Apple is now planning to sell DRM-free tunes. As far as I can tell, they aren't doing it yet, and they were unable to answer my question about how much it'd cost to upgrade an album purchased today to DRM-free format when it becomes available.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Actually, there's coast-to-coast 3G coverage in the USA. We just don't put a "W" in our "CDMA".
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
My phone might not be a very good music player, but at least it has an SD slot so I can expand it!
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
I wonder who they got to sell the RF modulator.
There's a lot more 3G than you think... Sprint and Verizon have 3G in nearly every major market they cover. Cingular is getting there. They all cover the majority of their top markets.
I don't know about Sprint or Verizon in general, but from what I understand Cingular has been starting with the core areas of a market then pushing out to suburbs/rural areas. Since fall 2006, Cingular has gone from covering the two big cities in my area, to the more distant mid sized cities (75-150k), to the small cities/towns (25-50k). They haven't bypassed suburbs or restricted coverage to city limtis + connecting highways.
When I first got the service in Nov 06, the coverage maps were inaccurate and were missing an entire county of 3G coverage. Since the beginning of the year, it seems like 3G coverage has been pushed out about 10 mi. in parts from its previous boundaries...
3g will be out for the New Year. I used to sell Cingular and we where told july\august area for 1st gen to make back to school. Then the 3g for the New Year. Was told not to say anything about 3g and sell current version then sell 3g to the same people who wanted the new version when it came out..
That belief that Apple "WORKS BETTER" is the "Apple cachet." You'd have to be deluded to believe Apple is everyone's favorite in this regard. Sure, there are vocal fans, but Paris Hilton has vocal fans, too.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
The current iPhone tech specs page says:
so it appears that the version sold in Europe could do GPRS/EDGE and GSM 850/900/1800/1900. Whether it will is another matter. (I don't know what would happen if you take a US iPhone to Europe - I don't know what the regulatory issues are if you take a phone from country X to country Y; what happens if the phone has been approved in country X but not country Y? And, if the iPhone is approved in the EU countries, will an iPhone bought in the US be OK to use in EU countries, and will an iPhone bought in an EU country be OK to use in the US?)
Want to know what the killer app on the iPhone will be?
myspace.com
I'm a teacher, and I can tell you that at least 10% of my students have Sidekicks (or knockoffs), and that is all they do with them.
All.
Day.
Long.
This will be the next status item for teenagers and "trying-to-be-hip" parents everywhere. These are the people who buy a $500 purse and take it to the grocery store, or who buy $150 shoes and walk around with the tags still on. This phone costs no more than 3 pairs of pants for them. I already hear them talking about how much they hate their Sidekicks and how much they think the iPhone will rock. It's on their birthday lists. I have no doubt that Apple will be laughing all the way to the bank on this one, big time.
I'm not saying it has to happen, I'm just saying that I saw it happen with iPods and Sidekicks, and this has got all of the same symptoms.
Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - FDR
"get it"?
What part of slow downloads, captive carrier, snooze yawn feature set, and undecided blood-letting music distribution costs don't you get?
I use a PowerBook. It work. I have a fleet of cell/mobiles, of which many without question are far ahead of Apple's feature list. Beyond device competition there is the signing up with AT&T, that friendly, highly-rated-consumer-love organization that was variously PacBell, AmeriTech, SBC, and so on. Yummy.
Those that ignore history are doomed to be revisited by it.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
We put "2000" after it, instead? :-)
Maybe modular synthesizers from the 60's included schematics. No synth I have ever purchased (or perused the documentation of), dating back to 1978 - long before digital anything in synths - has included a schematic.
People don't care whether their phone has GPRS or EDGE or EVDO or 3G. The points nobody's mentioning here that will make the phone take off are:
Decent resolution camera for a a phone.
Sexy touchscreen with multi-touch! This is new to any consumer device, not just phones.
Visual voicemail. A first for any phone.
Display changes orientation when you turn the device. Again: HAWT.
The promise of web browsing in your hand that sctually renders real web pages correctly.
Built-in iPod functionality that syncs with iTunes, and lists of songs/movies you can "flip" through.
It's not how much memory it has or how fast it communicates, it is the "unquantifiable" that sells things like phones.
(this post is long, so please bare with me if you want).
I most certainly not "bare" with you. This is Slashdot.
What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
At the end of the day, do you think people will care about any of those things? I mean the people who actually buy these kinds of phones?
Personally I think it'll come down to style and price. They'll win on style, but the price will stop your average joe from picking one up. But who knows, maybe that's what Apple wants.
Their computer division has been competing on style for a long time now. They make a profit on each box they sell. I imagine they want the same thing with the phone, because maybe, just maybe, Apple doesn't consider a checklist of features or complete domination of every market "winning".
Unlike a certain other company that shall remain nameless.
What is is all that is. Isn't that obvious?
Or you could, you know, hook it up to your computer with the built-in iPhone-to-USB cord and sync it to your iTunes, which already has all your music already?
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
It's the same music, dumbass. The iPhone is an iPod, among other things. That means the downloads will be 99 cents, or 129 cents if you want a higher compression rate and no DRM. Or $9.99 for an album.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
If you think usability and human interface are purely a matter of subjective preference, I hope to god you don't ever design anything I have to use.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
But...but...my MacBook has 4 MB of L2 cache! Per processor!
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
You've read a slashdot summary and assumed it was accurate. Thanks for playing.
Read non-sarcastically: it has EDGE. Obviously, 3G will be on the next revision so you can buy it again. That's how Apple works. Not that I mind it entirely, because I always have a fairly new piece of equipment since I'll always be upgrading. A side effect of this is that my Apple products generally don't break because I don't own them long enough. Yes, I'm okay with this because I have gobs of money.
I love the tech industry.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
Slashdot doesn't publish facts. You must be new here.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
Isn't there any demand for phones that can roam?
Max.
No 3G because so far, the 3G GSM chipsets gobble power like crazy. GULPING huge mouthfuls of power. If this phone had used 3G, the battery life would have been in the tens of minutes. Super fast... oh no, battery is dead.
It remains to be seen how much better things will be with wifi. With wifi turned on, My Dell PDA went would go from full charge down to dead in about 25 minutes. The trick was simply to not use if with the wifi unless it was plugged in, which usually meant there was a real desktop PC nearby, so why bother playing with the PDA's awful browser.
Anyway, a lot of this chatter about the iPhone has been about how great it will be, blah blah blah. Truth is, nearly nobody has actually used one for any length of time. There are no actual hands-on real-world daily-use reviews. Right now, everyone is talking about a bunch of features it's supposed to have. A "feature checklist" as others have called it.
It slices! It dices! And wait! There's more!
But features listed in a product flyer don't always mean the product actually does those things well, nor does it mean those nifty sounding features will be things people actually need and want and will actually use every day. For cost of this phone, it needs to be loaded with things that A) actually work, and B) people will want to use all of them to get value back out of their purchase.
Come on, I doubt this is going to be as big as people think. Certainly not big enough to be trolling through FCC filings for the tiniest bit of spec info to feed people's Apple lust. I have a feeling this phone will go the way of the Newton. Over-priced and before its time...
The Newton was out-of-left field. The iPhone is building on the gigantic success of the iPod, another handheld media device. The iPod in it's earlier days sold for as much as $500 for larger models... and people paid it. Today, the de facto price for a new top-end smartphone is $600. I paid it a number of times for the latest and greatest. While I don't think everybody is like me, I do think there are alot of people that would pay $600 for a device that's promises to do what it will do without even seeing it.
It hardly can be said that it's overpriced when it's on par with other smartphones and promises to be a much more polished piece of hardware.
As for all the attention given to the iPhone before its release, it's an Apple product. This sort of hubub is nothing new. It's an effect of all the secrecy surrounding their products. It creates an atmosphere where we want to know as much as we can about it. Works out well for them.
I just wasted your mod points! HA!
Coast-to-coast coverage? Ok, technically there are cities on both coasts and cities in between with 3G but you would be hard-pressed to get 3G 5 miles outside the city limits. You want coverage? Take Texas, for example. Last time I check, Cingular claimed to cover 14 cities. Sounds impressive, right? It sounds like everybody is getting 3G, right? All it takes is a little brains to figure out that those 14 cities make up only 4 metropolitan areas and judging from the coverage maps, coverage does not extend beyond the city limits. That means the two cities I live in(college and hometown) with over 100,000 people each don't have coverage because neither is next to another large town or two. I am currently just a few miles outside of a city of 110,000 and two hours from 3G coverage(if I drive the speed limit). At college, I'm in a city of 200,000 and an hour away from 3G coverage. Do you call that coast-to-coast coverage? Because I sure don't.
Fair enough. EVDO coverage is, however, widespread enough that it'd make plenty of sense to release an iPhone that could take advantage of it - but Apple sold out to Cingular, so they can't.
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This is what I was trying to get at. This is the mentality that most of us who are well aware of other options will take; we have a good phone (that could double as a music player if we want), the iPod is good, the camera is good; why do I need an iPhone? If everyone had that mentality already, Apple would not have even dreamed of attempting to enter such a fierce area of competition (it's not like anyone can make a cell phone and wait for the money, you know!) If most people were more cautious about the medium capacity of the player, you could be sure that either we would definitely not have 30 GB iPods being popular right now or it would have been another company getting the limelight (Creative, anyone?).
This is not what the public thinks of their devices. For one, most cell-phone music players are bad. Very bad. For example, the Digital Audio Player application on most Motorola phones has innate trouble finding MP3s correctly! It does not support any recognizable folder hierarchy structure, and it also has that utterly imbecile 100 song cap. If there was anyone that could spark the fire for mobile entertainment, it could have been Motorola. They had all of the tools, and they already had the niche market, but they still blew it. I still have yet to see them release anything somewhat impressive other than their RAZR derivatives (exception goes to the RAZR Linux phone, however).
The only possible and marginal exception to this would be Verizon's solution, but I cannot comment on something I do not know (can it even play non-DRM'ed audio files?) Secondly, how easy is it to get a decently encoded MPEG or AVI on your phone with a 2.2" display AT MOST and probably using some in-house, proprietary software, if any?
The iPod resolves this problem for the people I am talking about. It's an iPod that makes calls. Or it's a phone that has an iPod. Either way, it would still be an impressive mesh between two technologies that after five years or so of American popularity are STILL attempting to work out.
Watch for a huge influx of (decent) mobile entertainment solutions in the coming future. You can exclude the jPhone.
omg they spoiled it again to enter the "handheld" market
You are right. It is not acceptable to have no UMTS or at least EDGE support for this price.
I do not know whats up with apple, I am really surprised that they did not even add last years technology.
For this price and the brand Apple I would expect EDGE/UMTS and the ability to have third party software on the
phone like small java apps that make your live easier. I would expect at least a developer kit like you can have for
Palm, M$ or Symbian based systems.
And with this for sure overpowered HW one could really do nice things. Too bad that apple decided to be even more proprietary than the others.
Somehow the iPhone is an overpriced Music Player with some phone functionality and not even a Smart Phone.
I stick with my Palm Treo stuff until Apple decides to be more open and consideres to have a "normal" price for the really awsome hw (except having no EDGE or UMTS)
Apple should work on developing a Platform for phones that is less dommed than m$ stuff and symbian stuff.
Does it include GPS btw? I would expect GPS too to have some google maps and routing with this phone.
I worked in some mobile phone software/platform company a year ago and I can tell you these ppl could have done a better phone if there was enough money.
Thats why it really depresses me what apple did with their resources.
I at least hope some companies manage to clone some good stuff of apple that this branche moves on to some brighter future
c.u.
bsdU
Getting the files onto the phone is as easy as mounting a microSD card and copying them into the appropriate directories, but you probably need to use sync software (e.g. Windows Media Player) if you don't have a card reader.
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Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think that the choice of spec for the iPhone is interesting and it tells me that Apple does not see 3G as being as "killer" as people think it is for the time being. Here in Europe, 3G is ubiquitous but irrelevant. We tried it for a while with video calling but it was expensive and rubbish and people don't determine their purchases on whether the handset is capable of doing it - 3G is just a marketing tool to foll people into thinking that they are buying something revolutionary (a kind of tech security blanket if you like).
That doesn't mean that Apple won't introduce it (they've certainly said they would), it's just that there is no real justification for having it. If you want bandwidth to surf the web, use wifi - plenty of it about here in London and so much cheaper than the data plans the operators currently offer, "web'n'walk"-type deals notwithstanding.
Ultimately, the success of the device will hinge on whether people think they are getting a great experience "using" the device for the money that they will be charged. People will forget about the lack of 3G if the fascination with the UI and the iPod functionality becomes the primary focus of the device.
We shall see...
... pop round to meet the family.
Yours, Kali
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali
Obviously you've never watched people struggle to figure out all the little quirks on a Mac. They aren't perfect. They aren't even close. And in my subjective (but completely valid and borne out through experience) opinion, they aren't even the best.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
*waves iPhone in face*
Were these people previously trained to figure out all the little quirks on Windows, or were they new to computers? I'm sure if people used a poorly-made imitation of the iPhone before using the iPhone itself they'd be confused too. And while you are right that the Mac UI isn't perfect, most people who prefer another UI are (in my subjective, but valid and borne out through experience opinion) either (a) overtrained on Windows and afraid of change or (b) programmers who are used enough to thinking like a computer that Linux makes sense to them.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
You're not the target market anyway--as nice as it would be for Apple to make a version of iTunes for Linux, it hasn't been done yet. Nonetheless, people who refuse to use commercial software for ideological reasons aren't Apple's target market for obvious reasons--although you'll probably figure out how to run Linux on an iPhone just for the sport of it, so best of luck to you.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
The reasons they didn't go with 3G are: It eats battery power; it's only in the cities at the moment; it uses WiFi when near a hotspot and hotspots are at most homes and many public places these days.
That said, I really wanted 3G because I get coverage here, I already have 3G included in my rate plan, and Cingular's 3G is pretty good and fast. I also want GPS. I expect both in the followup model, and I will probably get a nice price when I sell the original to get the new. So no worries. -Mike from http://www.myallo.com/
Mike from www.myallo.com/blog
Go check out the test reports on the FCC website https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewEx hibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&c alledFromFrame=N&application_id=268052&fcc_id='BCG A1203'. It is worth noting that Apple filed a confidentiality request for the Test Setup/External/Internal photos and the user manual for 45 days after certification. If you are an RF/Elec. engineer the reports may be interesting to you.
AT&T as a captive carrier
You know, I really don't care for Apple and I tend to think that most of their products are more marketing success then actual functionality, but even so you can't really blame them for AT&T being a captive carrier. That's the way the damn cell industry works in the United States. The carriers have all the power. Ever tried to create an app for a cell phone? Ever tried to do something in the interest of your users and not in the interest of the carriers? Good luck!
Verizon and AT&T rank as the least friendly carriers to do business with -- both for developers and for their end users. Crippled phones, disabled features, draconian terms of service, etc, etc, etc. Sprint is slightly better and T-Mobile USA is probably the most friendly but even they pale in comparison to the freedom of choice that exists in the rest of the World.
I would encourage everybody to go read this document. It explains how the industry works and advocates for an adoption of wireless network neutrality and applying the carterphone rules to the wireless industry. There is simply no excuse for why I can't just go down to Wally World, buy any phone I want (from a $20 el-cheapo POS to a $600 PDA), plug my SIM card (or RUIM card for CDMA) into it and use it.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
If it doesn't have the features you need then no amount of nice industrial design, front end animations or branding will make you buy one.
And I do own a Mac Pro and Macbook so I'm no troll.
Well; do you know the iPhone works better? It's not like the cellphone market is "virgin". Nokia sold more phone in October, November and December last year (84 million) than Apple has sold Macs in the last 20 years! Apple may well have the best product in the market. But, it's not like it's competition has been stupid, or slow, or is new to the game. The GP was right that when the iPod launched, it faced pretty meagre competition from the Rio.
--- My dad's political betting
I've seen all types, from Windows and Linux power users to people who used a computer rarely or not at all. Overall, I'd say I couldn't objectively identify any one paradigm as better. It's all very personal. That's not to say that Apple doesn't do some thing better, but every choice has some area where it excels over the other. Even Windows.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
This feature is not called "shuffle"... it's called iDrunkDial.
-- Terry
Yeah, and there's no way I'm stripping for this guy.
I can't bear homonymic typos, prolly because I learned English reading it, not talking it.
ID: the nose did not occur naturally, how would we wear glasses otherwise? (apologies to Voltaire)
You weren't supposed to be able to add software or hardware to the Apple TV, either. It took about a week from release for people to figure out how to replace the hard drive, remotely log in, add new codecs, etc.
Granted, hacking the iPhone will be a little harder. I give it a month, tops, if any of the tools needed leak out of Apple or third party developers.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Just letting you know that I use Linux because I find it superior to OS X and Windows. I have no interest in using a OS just because it's opensource or not commercial, infact the OS being opensource isn't really something I care about at all.
I use Linux native commercial software under Linux -- StarOffice, unreal tournament, unreal tournament 2004, Crossover, VMware, some of Novell's corporate/enterprise software etc. as well as Windows commercial software that runs under Wine.
Please don't portray the entire group of Linux users as ideological zealots, thankyou.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
There is simply no excuse for why I can't just go down to Wally World, buy any phone I want (from a $20 el-cheapo POS to a $600 PDA), plug my SIM card (or RUIM card for CDMA) into it and use it.
Regulatory capture
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I think the concept of "massive subsidies" is a myth that the carriers use to justify their ETFs and the whole concept of contracts. It would be interesting to see what happened to cell phone prices if people had to buy them first and then get service to go with the phone.
If you severed the ties between cell phone retailers and service providers the prices of both would go down. Other countries work this way.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 2E16858179020
It has pretty much everything the iPhone has plus a few extras such as GPS/maps and the ability to add applications of your choice. It runs Windows Mobile 5.0 but is otherwise a pretty decent piece of equipment.
strike
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
I'm sorry... what was your point? Oh yeah -- that Apple's new to the market and so it can't compete. Someone should have told that to the Japanese automakers 20 years ago.
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
what i actually wanted to point out is that apple has to be 150% better to have a chance on this dense market to become accepted. :)
safari is of course nice but the web is not everything i want to do with a phone and sure the userinterface is nice it's from apple
but 3rd party apps are important nowadays imho.
You can't deny that ideological zealots make up a vast proportion of Linux users, though. Let's take as a given that people who choose Linux over Mac OS X do so because of the differences between Linux and Mac OS X. What are those differences? Well, there's the kernel and filesystem, but people who choose an OS based on those things are usually either server admins (who won't run MP3 players on their servers anyway) or a vanishingly small proportion of the market. What's left? There's the UI--and since iTunes' biggest virtue is its adherence to the Mac OS X UI, people who prefer Linux UI's aren't going to be interested. (Why port to Windows, while still using the Mac UI? Because many/most Windows users use Windows because of the Windows monopoly. Linux users clearly don't have that problem.) And then, after that, all that's left is the ideological difference between open and closed source. So it's pretty clear to see why Apple isn't interested in porting iTunes to Linux--the only market segment I've left out is people who are too poor to buy a Mac so they use Linux instead, and poor people aren't an attractive market segment.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
MP3 market wasn't considered Virgin at the time.
If I can plug it into my computer and put music, ringtones, and everything else with an iTunes inerface. I will try to get one. A little pricey, but that has high value to me.
iPhone. Disappear me!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Comprehension is the key. And you apparently didn't comprehend what I was saying. The post I replied to (great-grand parent to this post) wondered how much the music would cost as the phone was locked in to AT & T. My point was that Apple would have a difficult time locking it in - that it was pretty much impossible to offer it through iTunes.
Who's the dumbass?
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
In other words, people who did something stupid to fuck up their Mac OS X box? Other than Samba (which I don't use), "bad driver support", Software Update, AirPort, and graphics drivers have NEVER been that kind of problem for anyone I've ever even heard of except for you. Which puts you firmly into the group of people who think like computers instead of thinking like a human being when you use a computer--people who are so completely unlike normal users in their usage patterns that a UI based around normal human beings is actually worse for them.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
But seriously -- you mean like, running the updater, then rebooting (when it asks) and finding hardware doesn't work on a fresh install (replicatable every-time)?
Yes -- I agree, that's very unhuman behavior.
Believe it or not, Apple is not perfect and when things go wrong, it isn't always the fault of the user.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
NBC page crashes Firefox and Safari here; alternative:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1xXNoB3t8vM
This is...
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Well, if your decision to switch is based upon some vague bug that was introduced in an OS update at some point for some undefined "hardware" you were trying to use at the time, I don't think we can draw any broad conclusions from your personal experience. So what the fuck are you telling me about it for?
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Communicating poorly, and then acting smug when you are misunderstood, is not cleverness.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
You are the one who is making assumptions about people and claiming those assumptions are the majority of something without any reasonable evidence -- I am not and until you actually provide reasonable evidence I am not going to believe otherwise and nor should anyone else.
My personal experiences contradict a lot of your majority assumptions too, to the point, where it really doesn't support your arguments at all -- I'm willing to accept there can be error, but so far you haven't really provided anything to believe otherwise.
So far, all I have heard in particular from your posts is stereotypical 'evidence' that I have rarely ever experienced -- Forgive me if I don't find that convincing.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Sorry to say it, but iSync works nicely even without a iPhone. It syncs my MacBook with my Nokia 6280 (over BlueTooth) - calendars and contacts. Only annoyance: Birthdays don't sync.
Stop the brainwash
But, it's not like it's competition has been stupid, or slow, or is new to the game.
Perhaps the competition hasn't been slow or stupid, but regardless, they've been making shitty products.