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Dell PCs with Ubuntu Are A Little Less Expensive
Chandon Seldon writes "Contrary to many earlier reports, it turns out that Dell's prices for its Ubuntu PCs are cheaper than similar Windows Vista PCs for all three Models. Ars Technica reports: 'So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95). Many value PC sellers try to make up for the cost of a Windows license by bundling demo and trial versions of software such as AOL (affectionately known as "crapware"), for which they receive money from software companies looking to increase their distribution levels. Dell is no exception to this practice, although on their web site it allows customers to select the option of not including various applications.' For direct comparisons, Nat Tuck of Umass-Lowell has put together a simple page showing prices for Ubuntu and Windows-based PCs."
What will be the most important marker of Dells little Linux venture is product placement. If these linux systems end up on a back page people may not hunt for them.
After all the comments that Dell should sell Linux machines, and that they shouldn't charge more for them than the Linux one, it is time to put your money where your mouth is and start buying these beauties. I, for one, know that if they ever offer it here on good ol' Europe I'll be buying one as my replacement laptop. Not only buy them, but recommend them for people that are buying their first computers and never had contact with Windows. If they are going to give any serious use for the computer (that meaning, no mass marketed games), they will not miss anything on Windows. Peace.
#1. It's $80 and why send money to Microsoft if you aren't buying Microsoft software?
#2. It's Dell. They have nationwide support. If you move, you can still get support.
#3. It'd Dell. They move a LOT of boxes. This will be incentive for those hardware vendors to support Linux to get in on this market.
What you pay for is garanteed hardware compatibility.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
Once you start adding the price of office and other commercial software with a solid foss alternative the gap widens even more. Of course, that's if you don't count the cost of your time spent managing your computer and its software. Depending on how familiar you are with one OS or the other, that could be a lot. Most importantly, linux should not be promoted as " just" a low cost alternative to windows. Keep in mind that it's also higher quality ;) (i can hear the hackles rising from here)
#!/usr/bin/english
Well, getting the same laptop at $599 instead of $649 is a nice little savings. It's not huge. The real reason that this is important however is that there needs to be some incentive for people other than those of us who already use Linux to buy a Ubuntu PC from Dell. So now the choice is you can either a.) stick with the familiar Windows system or b.) save a little cash. If they were priced the same there would be very few new people trying the Ubuntu PCs and sales would be too low for it to really be profitable to Dell to offer them at all, and they'd probably eliminate them from the lineup again in a year or two.
That's my take on it anyway.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
Dell has being offering Windowless PCs for a long time, but only from their US website.
Just wondering if this is also the case for the Ubuntu deal?
Those who are not so technically minded and buy the thing candidly thinking that they will come home and install World of Warcraft or Photoshop and use iTunes will be having a hard time with this...
So really, why don't pay, say 10 USD more to get Windows and THEN if you like to be cool, get the Linuzz pain and install it?
I can now buy a 64 bit computer with 4 gigs of RAM that is guaranteed to work with Linux for $1000. This will allow me to have one machine that can comfortably run 1 desktop-friendly virtual machine and several developer-friendly virtual machines using Xen or VmWare. Last week I would have to wonder if my $1000 "bargain" would have caused me lots of grief because of Linux incompatibilities. Dell just eased my mind and made a grand off of me.I must say that I'm really skeptic about this whole thing.... but who knows... After all we all know that THIS is the year of Linuzzz on the desktop.
http://nyamenation.org/
"Who fsking cares" is exactly the right question. My parents, grandparents, and many of my peers who know very little about computers don't care what operating system they are using on a computer. To them, a computer is a computer just the same, regardless of the operating system. The bottom line for them is the costs involved. How reliable is the computer? How long will it be until another computer must be purchased? How much up-front cost is required for the initial purchase?
To my mother, who I am proud to say has been using Linux since Ubuntu 6.06 was released, Linux seems more reliable. She still clicks on those goofy advertisement images that look like they have real buttons, but guess what - her machine doesn't need to be reformatted within a week after that takes place! So in her eyes, the machine is more reliable.
To my grandmother, she only wants to be able to talk to family via email. Why does she need to spend any more than the bare minimum? Will this machine be more likely to be usable until she is no longer physically capable of using a computer? That is more likely to be true with Linux than Windows while keeping the OS up-to-date.
And why not take this a little further... What if I'm a small company in need of some "thin client" computers. Why should I pay even a little extra for an operating system on 20 computers, when I can get it for free and completely avoid those fees (which would be a significant price difference, no doubt).
(Though this does not apply to the dell desktops directly, these could be used for this purpose...) John/Jane Doe wants to start a new business where a web-based application with a database is required. Why should he/she need to pay for a Windows server environment and Microsoft SQL Server licenses? The benefit here is clearly that a good deal of additional money can be focused on the business requirements, and not initial licensing costs.
Of course, I could present many more real-life examples I'm aware of... While that may not be a majority of the market, it is a solid start to appeal to these constituent groups, and it could to be quite lucrative long-term. Your needs are one thing, but I'm merely suggestion not being egocentric and suggesting we think of others' needs instead. Doing this will clearly benefit the entire community long-term.
this is the main reason I'm havn't switched. I put together an old dell cpx for my new business and wanted, really wanted to just install Ubuntu on it and be done. You know, start the biz on open source from the start. But my primary application was going to be dreamweaver which doesn't run on linux. I looked for a good linux alt, but there isn't one. the best i could come up with was NVU and it doesn't come close. So I installed an old copy of 2000 on it and went on, wondering just how much longer i will have to wait to finally rid myself of M$.
Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.
And one way they achieved compatibility with Ubuntu was to pull out the modem!
As far as I can see, there's no way to configure a modem into the non-laptop models.
First it's
"wahhhh no OEM vendor will put *nix as an option on machines, whaa we have limited support, waahhh if we were more mainstream regular users would see how great *nix is"
Then it's
"Yaaaa go Dell, offering us what we want, give us the choice and we will show you that there is a market for linux."
Now it's
"Who cares if dell is offering linux, i can install it myself for free anyway or I can put together a better computer with bubble gum and bailing wire and make it run off a watch micro-processor. Regular people don't want linux blah blah blah"
You folks need to make up your minds. I think this is a great thing personally. I run both Windows and *nix systems and I used to be all about putting together my own PC's but now I have a life and other priorities rather than piecing together a custom system or digging up the information necessary to install some obscure video driver to make my selections work with my distro. I welcome being able to buy a pre-build and compatible *nix system from a vendor whom I can choke and yell at for anything gone wrong (hardware wise).
And you know what? That's what average folks want. In order to adopt linux as a home platform in Joe 6-pack's home you need that brand, you need that support and you need that gaurentee. Yes some people are afraid of changes and upgrade issues but its only more aggravated by the whole "the Internet is your support" mantra. Joe 6-pack doesn't want to read a 5 message boards to find out he needs to hand install some driver or app to get the feature he wants or to fix his machine. Granted a properly configured *nix environment should be rock stable but Joe 6-pack has been living in an MS world and needs to feel comfortable that he will have the same level of support he always has had.
Right now dell is offering these machines on a limited basis and is targeting the market segment that asked for these machines in the first place. If we don't step up to the plate and show Dell that this is a worthwhile idea then it will be scrapped before it has a chance to get going.
Personally I've been in the market for a new box and getting one ready to go with a warranty and a single support department to deal with makes the decision a lot easier and a lot less time consuming.
Yes I did save some money over a windows machine but that was never really the point of getting Dell to sell these things.
"Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
...when they're offered for sale in the UK. It's a no-brainer. Dell's laptops are usually priced competitively and the $50 saving will add to that competitive edge. But, most of all, it'll take away the anxiety... Will the wireless work? Will I struggle to get the screen resolution right? Will the onboard ethernet show up? What about suspend?
In the light of this announceent, it'll be hard for me to justify buying my next laptop from anyone other than Dell.
When I looked at the same configuration for the laptop 1505N vs 1505 the price difference was about $100 but was explained more by the lack of the ATI graphics card in the linux model. The hardware differences are that the linux model does not include the ATI graphics card and includes the more expensive Intel wireless card.
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
I think the goal was to have good open source drivers, ATI and nVidia haven't quite stepped up to the plate on that yet. I hope this may cause them to put a little more effort into either open sourcing their drivers, or improving their closed source ones.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
I don't care very much about saving $50. What I care about is that it is Ubuntu Linux that just plain works out of the box.
"Linux is only free if your time is worthless." Remember that? Well, that goes for Windows too: you need to figure the cost of your time into the cost of Windows. For me, the real savings here is to just buy a laptop that will just work, and I won't need to buy antivirus and antispyware software, and run them faithfully, and administer that Windows box.
I love Ubuntu because once it's set up, it just works. Now we can buy computers already set up. Sweet.
Now you have a reasonable alternative to a Mac for relatives who aren't computer savvy. Anyone who is intimidated by administering antivirus and such, this is perfect.
People are already commenting on how everyone should be able to choose between Vista/XP or Ubuntu so they can see the $50 savings on the configuration part of the process. That is not a good thing for Dell/Ubuntu because it will only cause problems. This deal was made to sell Ubuntu Dells to people who wanted that, not to give people a money saving option.
Know this...A ton of people buy dells everyday and out of those, many are buying their first computer or are generally considered novice users. Now Dell is also a sort of bargain type place, so people may be more frugal, not all, but certainly a good amount. Stay with me here...
So now you have people customizing their computer, choosing Ubuntu to save $50, $80 whatever it is, getting the computer at home and then having the realization they just got what they paid for. They will not be happy. Dell will have to field that support call from people who are CLUELESS to what Linux or an OS is. Many of those support calls will end with, "you probably want to buy Windows" and as a result, that computer user just had a nightmare experience and will never consider a Linux distro again. This is not a 'what if' scenario, this will happen and happen often if people are given the choice right off like people here want to see.
The point is this, if they list Ubuntu at $50 cheaper than windows to everyone with soliciting the Ubuntu option, it will be the end of this deal and it will not take long. The only way it would work is if Dell could manage to turn a profit from selling a machine loaded with Ubuntu, fielding all the support calls and then selling Windows at a higher cost to unsatisfied customers for a net gain that is worth that effort. So please, stop asking for equality in the OS choice screen during customization. If you get greedy like that, the whole program is probably going to go under. Be happy they are selling the boxes to you, not to your neighbor who does not know how to spell Linux.
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
The headline price for the different operating systems are the critical steps in deciding which one to go down and look at.
l s.aspx/dimen_e520?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 - $369x ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAN3&s=dhs - $679x ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAV3&s=dhs - $599
Vista E520 - http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetai
FreeDos E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp
Linux E520n - http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp
The first pass, 'Damn, that Linux is expensive, even more expensive than Vista', the reflexive response is that these are the same models and to assume that you customize up, not down.
I am personally delighted that Dell is offering good practical machines that should just work. People who buy these should end up as happy customers. In the long term, that is good for both Dell and Linux.
ah, shucks, I was hoping to spend some of my mod points on this thread. But I had to respond. You may not recommend Dells to your friends, but I, like you, have a lot of people ask me for recommendations. I will now specifically tell them about Dell Ubuntu machines and recommend them highly. Unfortunately, there aren't any good deals in my local area to justify a local pc/notebook recommendation.
I think what's going to happen is that Windows geeks will buy a Dell machine with Ubuntu installed, wipe the drive, and install a pirated copy of Windows.
competition is a good thing. I hope this works out well. The company I work for is a big backer of Linux, but I am stuck with WinXP because that is what I am told to use. I am sure that some of the apps I have to use would not work. Ubuntu distro is soon to be on my box at home and my employer is promising training in Linux this October.
If I was deep this is would be profound, if smart then wise, if a poet then verse. Here it is, you judge!
I tried to find it this morning too.
1. There was a page on Dell's site saying displaying photoshopped pc's with a brown ubuntu splash screen, but the link took you to freedos systems. (?)
2. Search the phrase Dell linux and one of the links will take you to PC's with Red Hat.
3. Going through Dell's front door www.dell.com gets you absolutely zero indication they have Linux, much less ubuntu as an option.
I found the link to buy a ubuntu/dell pc in an article. This suggests some combination of typical corporate inertia and maybe, just maybe a Microsoft distribution agreement that discourages alternatives.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Dell Has Been selling linux that isn't news. What's news is that the coolest most hip linux is now being sold on home user class hardware (As opposed to the workstation class hardware on the business side)
Tagline could be "Ubuntu: you'll die before it does."
http://www.mhall119.com
I go to www.dell.com and I do not see anywhere to select Linux. Can anyone even get to it from the main page?
It may be a bait and switch. "Here you can get a Linux desktop by following this link." Posts link on a few sites, "Look we only had 50 sales, no one wants linux."
Can anyone get to the page from the main dell.com site?
Customer: My computer won't bla, bla, bla
Dell says: Reinstall from the restore CD and hangs up
"choose between Vista/XP or Ubuntu so they can see the $50 savings on the configuration part of the process"
They get an equivilent GUI desktop for roughly $100.00 less.
"getting the computer at home and then having the realization they just got what they paid for. They will not be happy"
The get a GUI, a browser, email client, word processor and media player.
"Dell will have to field that support call from people who are CLUELESS to what Linux or an OS is"
I would guess that they get less support calls for Ubuntu as given hardware failures Linux is more stable over the long term. It doesn't go sluggish like Windows does and you have to reinstall every six months or abouts.
"Many of those support calls will end with, "you probably want to buy Windows" and"
The should do something like the one button restore Levovo offers. Or put a base diagnostic system that can be invoked at boot time. Besides which there's only one thing more futile that working in a call center, that is working in one.
Im seeing a lot made of the price difference
davecb5620@gmail.com
What if people start buying with Ubuntu to save [50-150]$ then download a copy of Windows using bittorrent and install it ?
Honestly, even if I wanted a Windows box, I'd consider buying one of these and then ordering an OEM Windows disc. The math works out to paying about $25 more and ending up with a Windows box without any of the crapware.
'Course, I'd do at least a dual boot anyway, but this might still be a good option for users who want a clean installation of Windows.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
'the obvious advancement of Open Source shouldn't be talked about. It makes me feel like there is a "STFU" campaign.'
I couldn't agree more. When I first started Slashdotting just about any pro Linux and pro Open Source comment would get modded up if it was coherent.
Over time this has changed. A sure way to get up-modded now is to point out how zealots upmod pro Linux comments and Microsoft bash comments. Actually pointing out a strength of Linux or Open Source over proprietary software, pointing out flaws in typical proprietary software sympathizer arguments, or even Microsoft bashing that is ontopic is solidly grounded in fact will get you modded down now.
I watch the moderation. Usually when the discussion is hot, an Insightful pro open source stance will get modded as such but a day or two after a story first hits the front page troll mods will come in. Actually, within the past couple months people see to have fallen in love with overrated moderations when there is no legitimate reason to downmod something. This way it is more likely to survive meta-moderation.
Either a bunch of Microsoft and proprietary software fanboys have started to camp on Slashdot (an awefully strange place for an MS fanboy to hang out) or the industry has recognized that Slashdot is a critical front in the development of Tech trends and prevailing attitudes and there are now paid PR shills monitoring Slashdot.
... But you can get even better deals on Dells by hunting around at Edealinfo or Fatwallet. I just ordered a Dell laptop yesterday that ended up being significantly cheaper than the e1505n, and yet it comes with Vista Home Premium (it was some kind of educational/affiliate/whatever discount that I found on Fatwallet).
Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost. And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit, while *ALL* the AMD processors now support 64-bit, from the lowly Sempron on up.
Anyone know if Dell will offer an AMD system with Ubuntu?
My bicyles
PROCESSOR Intel® Core(TM)2 Duo Processor E4300 (1.8GHz, 800 FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 7.04
MONITORS No Monitor
MEMORY 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache
OPTICAL DRIVE 48X CD-RW/ DVD Combo Drive
VIDEO CARD 256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache
SOUND CARD Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
KEYBOARD & MOUSE Dell USB Keyboard
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day
Mouse Dell® 2-button USB mouse
Network Interface Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet
$459.00 Not Including Shipping
Not all that bad really. And there is a 3d card. Not the best but its something.
They don't offer a Linux model configured comparably to the $369 Vista model, but by customixing donwn you can get the Linux version to $409. So for $40 more than the Vista model you get:
CPU: Celeron D => Core Duo
GPU: GMA X3000 => GMA950
RAM: 512M single channel at 533 => 1GB dual channel at 667
Disk: 160GB => 250GB
Net: 10/100 => 10/100/1000
Apart from the GPU, the Linux version is better in every way... but if you're looking for an entry level computer you're really looking for the unavailable $329 E520 with Ubuntu.
On the other hand, trying to configure a Vista box to match the Linux box, the best I can do is not $459, but $549... the following things are included in the price and can't be removed:
* Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD
* Starter pack - Yahoo! Music, Corel Photo and Dell Games
* 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
* 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
The difference between the Intel X3000 and the older Intel GMA950 in the Linux box is presumably balanced by the 10/100 ethernet versus the 10/100/1000 in the Linux version.
I personally have a 3 and a half year old Dell D400 laptop with the Intell 855GM integrated graphics card. It runs Beryl just fine. I've switched to Compiz for the latest rendition of Ubuntu and that works fine too.
I'm sure the card can't handly anywhere near whatmost nVidia cards can, but the Intel card definitely handles the basic eyecandy without problems.
Yeah, I agree with the idea of sending a message. But it has to be "worth" sending that message: would I rather pay $600 and get a Windows license that I don't want, or choose from a more limited selection, and pay $800 to get a nearly identical system without that Windows license?
Of course, I made the choice that is most personally advantageous to me. I suspect this is a big reason why desktops bundled with Linux haven't caught on: small companies that try and sell Linux-based desktops don't have the same purchasing power and economies of scale as behemoths like Dell and HP which bundle their systems with Windows. So us Linux geeks buy the systems with Windows bundled and just discard it. We save money, but we pay Microsoft as well, so we're not saving as much money as we could in theory.
I think this is a pretty bold and impressive move by Dell... I just hope that they extend it across their entire product line. If the Customization options for every Dell system included a choice like, "Operating System: Ubuntu Linux (subtract $50/$100 from price)", you'd bet there'd soon be a *lot* more people running Ubuntu. Maybe a rough adjustment for those users and for tech support at first, but I believe the Linux community would come out far ahead in adoption in perception in a short amount of time.
My bicyles
As someone who doesn't use Windows: knowing that the hardware works with Linux. Not sending any money to MS is also a plus.
If your comment title says 'Re: Foo', I'm not likely to read it.
Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost.
I think the issue is Intel offers open source drivers for their integrated video cards. Less legal complications and less software complications that way. Also, the Windows variants of these machines seem to offer ATI graphics cards, which are the most likely to have problems under Linux.
http://www.dell.com/linux
Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
... But you can get even better deals on Dells by hunting around at Edealinfo or Fatwallet. I just ordered a Dell laptop yesterday that ended up being significantly cheaper than the e1505n, and yet it comes with Vista Home Premium (it was some kind of educational/affiliate/whatever discount that I found on Fatwallet).Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost. And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit, while *ALL* the AMD processors now support 64-bit, from the lowly Sempron on up.
Anyone know if Dell will offer an AMD system with Ubuntu? I spoke with a Dell rep yesterday and he told me that all of the Ubuntu Dell options are 64 bit. I don't think you can fault Dell here. They do have to make an investment to make Linux a viable option and I don't see why they should have to offer more than a few base systems right now. If people are buying Ubuntu Dells, we'll see what happens.
http://nyamenation.org/
The Ubuntu promo has nothing to do with operating system, browser, or user agent (well for the most part).
If you look at the page source you'll see they have a javascript array of urls, one of which always includes the Ubuntu promo link/image. These arrays are all sent to their 'montage' function which is supposed to cycle through the different promos (open the dell home page in IE and you'll see the desired function in action).
In Firefox 1.5.x for whatever reason (they have too many errors for me to even bother trying to track it down) the page will load the first random image which could possibly be the Ubuntu one. This is why you have to usually reload the page to get it. However, if you have NoScript enabled (or javascript disabled, take your pick) you will never see the Ubuntu promo as you will always get the default image.
So Dell did put an advertisement for Linux on their front page, and if they purposefully targeted anyone it was IE users, the people least likely to be informed about Linux.
For my 2 cents I think Dell initially is being conservative because this is an initial cost and a risk for them. They've had to do the research, set up the relationship, check on the drivers and such, set up the online store, etc. Then they set up the support options, however much that costs and however much that is their responsibility. That should stretch out over a period of time but it is a cost. In any case, it all might be a factor in this initial price that is worth thinking about since they're not at all sure that this is the wave of the future, but something that is worth trying. In fact, we've noticed that it is just a little less expensive than Windows, which I don't think is by accident - I'm not sure they're passing savings on to the consumer as much as the business team thinking - "What is the customer in this scenario expecting of the price?" and pricing it that way. I really think it's that way for now. For all of the above reasons, at least initially, as well as the crapware and deals with Microsoft, in all reality, it's probably more expensive, but they're trying to feel out the market, but who knows. I'm all for linux making gains, but I'm just trying to think about this stuff realistically at this point in the game.
:P. In any case, I think that maybe Dell is kind of just putting it out there and seeing what sticks for now because it's not going out of its way to sell the software - it's just there. If I were a new Ubuntu customer I would think that all of the free software as well as the whole reliability and security, as well as no tiered basic/ultimate/premium madness a la mac/pc commercials would be great.
For consumers, I don't think Dell is really advertising well what they're getting yet - I went through the whole "Customize your computer" thing to get a Ubuntu laptop. Apart from first day online store oddness, I thought it was interesting that there wasn't the advertisement of free consumer software on there, such as free complete office suite comparable to Microsoft Office. Maybe I missed it with the laptop's several power addons or something. It does seem to have a remarkable amount of options/addons. I've become a Mac guy recently so maybe I'm just used to a lack of options now so I don't know
</my2cents>
Well... they all offer 64-bit if you upgrade the processors, but the default processor for the laptop is a Pentium Dual-Core (rebranded Intel Core Duo with half the cache). You have to pay about $100 extra to get 64-bit and virtualization. Whereas for $500 they offer the Inspiron 1501, a Windows laptop, with the Turion 64 X2 TL-50 processor which has both those Linux-hacker-friendly features: http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /inspn_1501?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=FamCustom
My bicyles
Dell has to support Windows just like any other OEM. Microsoft doesn't do it. If they did, they'd go bankrupt.
People who order Dellbuntu machines likely need less support anyway. Even better, an individual is more likely to get support from the Ubuntu community than Microsoft.
As for the pricing, perhaps Dell realized that their pricing scheme for the ill-fated N series was stupid (remember, the Linux machines cost more than the equivalent hardware with Windows?)
" No, you'd have to manufacture that interpretation, given the context, out of sense of over-defensiveness."
LOL. Amazing! Not only have you claimed that I "manufactured that interpretation" but you claim to understand my motivation for the alleged conduct!
No, I am not defensive at all. My conclusion that your comment was unnecessarily insulting comes from the fact that you engaged in name calling and cutting remarks.
Or perhaps you can explain how labeling Open Source advocates as "hippy-types" and saying that they are "growing up" and suggesting that they don't have real jobs is not being insulting?
Although your intent may have been to make the points you made in your last post to me the delivery of the original post was insulting. Maybe you didn't realize?
Please choose an operating system :
o Ubuntu (included)
o Windows Vista (+50$)
That would be great.
After choosing the +50$, a pop up should warn that extra memory is required for the same level of performance.
'And when other people from that same community cease to blindly mod up every such most out of some distorted sense of team spirit, they're exhibiting a much more mature, and economically aware posture.'
Nobody is complaining about FOSS posts not getting modded up out of a sense of team spirit. The problem is that opposite happens. Up to date, informative, and sound posts are being modded down if they take a pro FOSS software stance. Further, a pro commercial stance is now being blindly modded up. The fact that the negative moderation typically occurs a day or two after the posts are on the front page implies that it isn't the real stance of the bulk of the Slashdot community.
'exhibiting a much more mature, and economically aware posture'
It doesn't matter how many times you try to reword it. There is nothing mature and economically aware about believing proprietary software has a place. In turn, there is nothing immature or ignorant about believing proprietary software does not have a valid place.
Personally, I think it may be time to start locking moderation on stories 16hrs after they are posted. You wouldn't want to prevent posting that early since many conversations might still be progressing but moderation helps to benefit those looking for the interesting discussions, not those who are replying to comments later.
Allowing people to go in and moderate late in the game so that their moderations are less likely to be countered is like letting them rewrite history.
I'd take vista for $40 and (try) to run it under ubuntu on vmware, or the reverse If I ever need to run vista I have a license and wouldn't have to shell out $200 for the retail version. For me, getting Vista with a dell is a bargain.
1. Hey, my windows office that I copied from my buddy doesn't install!
You copied it from your buddy? Must be that DRM copy protection.
Have you ever seen shockwave work anywhere? Have you seen Homestarrunner.com?
It's already installed, but it's called "Rythmbox Music Player" in the menu for some reason.
GIMP is a more advanced version of Photoshop. Don't you hate it how new versions of software change things around?
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
I largely do this now with my current (non-Dell) laptop. I had installed Ubuntu on it a year ago, installed VMWare Server (from the download on the VMWare site, not the repository), and installed Windows XP Pro so I have access to some software that is extremely useful to me (I.E., the Windows only map software that I got a few years ago with a USB GPS device. Yes, VMWare will pass through the USB GPS into the guest operating system without issue.
I'll probably be asking my company to buy the Dell Ubuntu laptop and an extra copy of Windows XP Pro sometime in the next week.
I've heard this and seen it for myself with World of Warcraft. The game does not freeze for a few seconds in a city like under a clean Windows XP SP2 installation on the same hardware and I even saw a 15fps increase under the Linux installation.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
While some Free Software are also available for Windows, you may or may not be able to install them on Vista.
For example, you can't use Virtualization with Vista Home. EULA limit.
"PatchGuard" and other security thing prevent you (or at least make it very difficult) to install any free antivirus/spam/spyware and a lot of low level stuff like virtualization, vnc, samba on any version of Vista.
Cheap Vista only supports 8GB of RAM.
AFAIK SAMBA support umlimited users, vista home only supports 5-10 peers!
Cheap vista don't have IIS, dual processor (two sockets) support and I'm sure a lot more stuff I don;t know/remember.
if you have computers at more then one locations e.g. home/work/school/friends/families. You need remote desktop.
What do you do when your mother have problems with her computer? Not those cheap versions of XP and Vista. Amount other thing how can you do multi-users without terminal server anyway?? True, just that people have to point out all those software are there. Pre-installed on the Dell Ubuntu PC and ready to use. Ubuntu is the full unlimited version. All software are full version not home and student version. So even excluded all applications Ubuntu is still much more than Vista Home.
Let me put it this way. Is there any reason NOT to compare Ubuntu to a Vista Ultimate Server Edition?