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FBI Finds It Overstepped Bounds in Collecting Data
truthsearch writes with a link to a Washington Post article about an eyebrow raising internal FBI audit recently released to the public. The document finds that, contrary to a document release back in March, the FBI frequently overstepped its bounds in collecting data on US citizens. The article states that the organization may have violated laws or agency rules 'more than 1,000 times'. "The new audit covers just 10 percent of the bureau's national security investigations since 2002. The vast majority of the new violations were instances in which telephone companies and Internet providers gave agents phone and e-mail records the agents did not request and were not authorized to collect. But two dozen of the newly-discovered violations involved agents' requests for information that U.S. law did not allow them to have."
What? The government abused it's power? But they said they wouldn't . . . I must admit I'm stunned.
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
Just because the info you got is legal to get, it doesn't mean the way you got it was legal... it sounds in the summary like they think they should escape prosecution/etc because the net result was data they could've got legally anyhow. So if I ask someone for money, and they give it to me, vs. I hit them and take it, I shouldn't get prosecuted, because the net result I'd have received anyhow?
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Compared to the illegal wiretapping that Bush & Co. were/are doing.. this seems relatively small potatoes..
MABASPLOOM!
When a populace forgets that being free doesn't equate to being safe, and when a populace forgets that being secure doesn't mean being being free; then those who seek to have power over the populace, will.
US$0.02++
...and they still couldn't nail Tony Soprano. The FBI is a shadow of its former self.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
...you've got "nothing to hide"(tm) so you shouldn't worry. Our comrades are after the "bad guys"(tm) only...
Yam, yam, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade, uga booga, yam, yam, yade, yade
Every FBI agent who asked for/took information not legally allowed should be sacked immediately, they either don't know the law they are enforcing or are deliberately breaking it themselves. No excuses, they should be sacked. With ten thousand offences (1000, but only 10% sample was taken) The management should be removed and replace. Maybe this would give a proper signal of what the people expect of their law enforcement and show to the people that criminal activity isn't tolerated anywhere.
They either do this, or the populace should not feel under any compulsion to comply with any laws at all, or pay taxes, this is because the government has a responsibility as well as the individual, if the government has shirked its responsibiity no citizen can be expected in return to have any responsibility to the government.
I know this seems extreme but in the long run it would be the right move giving a good precedent and restoring a large amount of faith in the system.
They must have known and someone must have authorized it. Why aren't we reading about that person being fired or better yet pulled up in court?
While there is no personal cost to law enforcement agents breaking the law, they will continue to break it. They're human, so that's not suprising.
Until there is serious punishment liked docked pay, a firing or prison time (depending on the severity) for blatent lawlessness on the part of the law enforcement agencies, they will continue to do as they please.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The vast majority of the new violations were instances in which telephone companies and Internet providers gave agents phone and e-mail records the agents did not request and were not authorized to collect.
Isn't this along the lines of me handing you a 20 for a 10 dollar bill, leaving your place of business only to return with the police proclaiming that you overcharged me?
While the 2 dozen or so counts of obtaining information by request that they didn't have rights to is very valid I find these other charges kind of dubious.
If this is what the FBI has gotten away with, it sends a shudder up my spine to think what the NSA has gotten away with (and is STILL getting away with). I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that they're randomly fishing the entire U.S. population: listening in on citizens' calls, opening mail, and perusing credit reports. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they have the phones of every Democrat in Congress tapped and are passing along that info to the President. Nothing would surprise me anymore in this country.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
The vast majority of the new violations were instances in which telephone companies and Internet providers gave agents phone and e-mail records the agents did not request
How the heck is this a "symptom of this runaway federal power binge"? Sounds more like extremely poor data security management at the service providers. Meanwhile, there were 22 cases out of a thousand in the audit where agents asked for more than they were authorized to get. That's hardly a runaway binge. Next time, please rtfa.
It turns out that of that 1,000 incidents, 700 of them were from people at the companies sending too much (unrequested) information, not from over-intrusive FBI snooping. A few of the incidents had the agents sending out new letters requesting permission to use the extra info, but pretty much all of them were just discarded or filed away without anyone going through them (because you know someone would want to have a record of what was received, not what the agents actually wanted or used).
So out of that "1,000" it turns out to be 300 or less.
Because, as the article notes, it was "suspected" violations, not proven or even substantially indicated ones.
And this is out of what, almost 50,000 pieces of info requested? And that includes things like credit reports and other semi-public records - it's not like they're digging really deep for most of this. You get more investigation when you apply for a job with many companies.
A much less than 1% error rate is pretty damned good...
They were "collecting data on US citizens". I guess that's the modern way to say they were spying.
And allow me to rephrase that for you:
There. Now we've covered both halves of this corrupt equation.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
I _know_ that this is not likely to be a popular opinion. I _know_ that this is decidedly unpatriotic, but I want to say it anyway:
This just isn't worth it.
The cost of our 'war on terror' is far outstripping any harm that those 'terrorist' groups could have done to us. We have sacrificed the lives of young men and women to war than were lost on 9/11, by a long shot. We have likely spent, or at least will spend, far more money than we lost in that attack. We have lost our faith in our leadership's ability to keep us safe and happy at the same time. We're losing our civil liberties and are devolving into a police state.
WHY?
Is this all really, truly just because a handful of zealots MIGHT crash more planes into more buildings?
People joke about "if you do 'x', the terrorists win". In all seriousness, the truth is, if we are going to live in fear we may as well forfeit.
When you (except you, the FBI agent snooping on this message) or I "overstep bounds" like those the FBI "overstepped" in this operation, we're guilty of breaking the law. We're criminals. The people the FBI are responsible for arresting and pushing into the justice system that jails us.
Who at the FBI will even get fired for their crimes? Who will be charged? No one. They should be held to a higher standard than are civilians, because of the stakes at risk in their control, and the trust they're given based on their superior integrity. But instead, no one every gets fired, no one is ever charged.
We cannot be surprised when cops not only do crimes repeatedly when they're not punished, but are more tempted to do them, their integrity undermined. Because by failing to hold them to account, to pay for their crimes, we demonstrate that our laws are arbitrary, our government merely force, not justice.
--
make install -not war
Just putting it into perspective... There are abuses, and there are other abuses...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00. html
Sounds like there are going to be a few more wholly unrelated firings that Alberto Gonzales will naturally have nothing to do with coming up!