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Pentagon Developed 'Laughing Bullets'

plasmadroid writes "It might sound like a joke, but documents unearthed by New Scientist show that the Pentagon actually funded research into 'non-lethal' bullets that would also hit a target with a dose of laughing gas. That way, they'd not only be stunned but incapacitated by fits of giggles. Another idea was to put stink bombs inside rubber bullets. I guess it would work, but the idea of crowds of rioters giggling uncontrollably while being pelted with rubber bullets is truly bizarre..."

53 of 286 comments (clear)

  1. Why do we need the gas? by east+coast · · Score: 5, Funny

    I know I laugh every time I pull the trigger.

    That's just the way we roll, in my hood.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    1. Re:Why do we need the gas? by 0olong · · Score: 3, Funny

      And all your homeys also read /. in their parents' basements, don't they?

    2. Re:Why do we need the gas? by east+coast · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, it's out on the front stoop since we got wireless and all. With our 40s of Bawlz. Yeah, booooooyy!

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    3. Re:Why do we need the gas? by homey+of+my+owney · · Score: 2, Funny

      So, to incapacitate the enemy when you approach, you say "Two guys walk into a bar..."

    4. Re:Why do we need the gas? by Alranor · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or alternatively

      Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja!...
      Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.

    5. Re:Why do we need the gas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I prefer "A baby seal walks into a club..."

  2. freedom? by flar2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The freest and most democratic country on Earth spends far too many of its resources on novel ways to control people.

    1. Re:freedom? by Fizzl · · Score: 5, Funny

      The freest and most democratic country on Earth

      LOL
    2. Re:freedom? by MarkPNeyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would you rather they just used lead bullets when rioters take to the streets?

      --

      My blog
    3. Re:freedom? by jandrese · · Score: 3, Funny

      Obviously not, lead is toxic to the environment.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    4. Re:freedom? by Undefined+Parameter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think you would find it interesting were you to read more on the Delian League (aka the Athenian Empire). There are some interesting parallels between the ancient Delian League and the post-Cold War United States of America, especially regarding political power structures, foreign policy, and economics. If you can get your hands on Thucydides' History, and read through the first half, you might find that especially educational.

      --
      Eat the Path.
    5. Re:freedom? by JK124 · · Score: 2, Funny

      LOL LOL LOL! O Shit! I've been hit!

    6. Re:freedom? by DrDitto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In Germany you go to jail if you speak the words "the holocaust never happened".

    7. Re:freedom? by It'sYerMam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Etc. what? You're the beacon of freedom? I find that hard to believe - we're pretty much all as useless as each other, and if we're not yet, we will be in a few years' time.

      --
      im in ur .sig, writin ur memes.
    8. Re:freedom? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I always look at it this way. All governments suck, but the U.S.'s government sucks less than most.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    9. Re:freedom? by soren100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Would you rather they just used lead bullets when rioters take to the streets? America is a very peaceful country -- we don't have "rioters taking the streets" every day, or every year, or even every decade. When was the last significant riot in America? . So "Rioters" is a straw-man argument. So why spend huge amounts of time, energy, money on a rare problem that actually costs less than the solution?

      "Political Protesters" is the target of these non-lethal systems. As Americans get more and more unhappy with the direction the country is taking, and it is becoming increasingly clear that the two ruling parties are cooperating rather than competing, people will realize that voting is largely ineffectual.

      The Democrats were elected to "bring home the troops". So what did they do? The Democrats provided Bush with all the funding for the Iraq war that he wanted, and have yet to substantially limit Bush's power. When the ballot box is proven useless as a means of creating change, you will have people exercising their rights of free speech, protesting loudly in large gatherings in American cities.

      These will turn into massive political protests as Americans demand change. That will be the time when the non-lethal crowd control measures that this administration has been so energetically developing will be used -- against the people who will be protesting the administration.
    10. Re:freedom? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good point, and if there were _any_ candidates worth considering, that would be a good thing, but these days, they're all the same. All beholden to monied interests, all power-grubbing, all self-motivated, all interested in securing re-election through massive spending, all interested in appearances but unconcerned about real results.

      There aren't more than a handful of people in Congress that don't seem to be completely corrupt. And I'm not too sure about them.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    11. Re:freedom? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But to say America is more free then Britain what a load of bollocks. in the Vietnam era blacks had no real rights You mean they couldn't vote? Couldn't hold public office? Couldn't own property? You're confusing Jim Crow with Slavery.

      protesters got shot pretty often during anti Vietnam protests Your grasp of history is appalling. Try once, at Kent State University, in 1970.

      now they have 'freedom of speech' on lock in such a way that anyone who tries to express free speech is ignored by the media and labelled a nut job, a idiot, a moron liberal, etc. Are you kidding? The media loves protesters. The media loves any sort of circus. I challenge you to produce a link to a single mainstream media story that labels a protesting person or group "idiot", "nutjob", or "moron liberal".

      Freedom of speech only matters when your rich and powerful. Well yeah, that's always been largely the case. Nobody cares about the poor and powerless.

      If freedom of speech meant anything during this time in America bush would of been impeached by now. That's quite a stretch. Even if we assume there is no freedom of speech, how would the restoration thereof logically lead to impeachment? Really, the problem is lack of rational representatives in government. That comes partly from the fact that the kind of person who wants to be elected is exactly the wrong kind of person for the job, and partly from the fact that half the population has an IQ of less than 100. Being able to speak freely is not going to make Joe Barbecue next door with his Lincoln Instigator and 30' RV vote for someone who's not for "family values" and bombing foreigners. I know, it's tough to swallow, but it's not some vast conspiracy to silence the opposition that gives us bad government; it's the fact that the government we have is the government the majority have voted for. I'm not talking about the results of a single presidential election, either. I'm talking the combined weight of hundreds of elections, at all levels, over the last century plus. Sure, our current president is a fucking twit; but when you look at ANY president closely, you begin to realize that they're ALL fucking twits to some degree. Not just presidents, but elected officials in general. People are just largely fucking twits. They're greedy, selfish, and stupid. There's no getting away from it. Public education, free speech--- all valiant efforts, but you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Twits is what we get, because collectively, twits is what we are.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    12. Re:freedom? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When was the last significant riot in America?
      The last one of the top of my head was approximately two months ago at the May Day immigration reform demonstration in Los Angeles. It wasn't really a riot because the protesters weren't violent, it was more of a "run the fuck away from the cops because they decided to start shooting at us". However I think it counts because the cops employed tear gas and rubber bullets.

      There has probably been a more recent one that I just haven't heard about. There have definitely been larger, more violent protests in other Western countries since then (think G8) I was actually present near the May Day rally (my wife works for one of the organizers). It wasn't even close to a riot. Heck, by your own admission, the May Day incident wasn't a riot. Hell, it was hardly even a good head busting! The only reason it got so much coverage was because the LAPD had the audacity to hit reporters. And no, you cannot define a riot based on the police firing tear gas and rubber bullets. A riot is determined by the action of the people the cops are firing at. In the absence of violence, vandalism, or other crime, you are simply wrong if you call it a riot.
      And no, there haven't been more recent ones you haven't heard of. The LAPD is infamous for being bastards, and May Day was probably their most egregious transgression in a decade. As far as "other Western countries", you're actually proving his point. We don't riot in the US very often, compared to other western countries: Quebec City in 2001, french muslims burning hundreds of cars in 2005, UK football fans every time their club wins. Heck, the last riot of note in the US was the Toledo riot of 2005, when the police started firing tear gas and rubber bullets to protect a bunch of marching Nazi fucktards from an angry mob. Personally, I'm all for angry mobs running Nazis out of town on a rail, but free speech must trump decency sometimes I guess.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  3. ...Oblig by Karganeth · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can't have manslaughter without laughter!

  4. I feel safer already by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Between stuff like this and a CIA who wasted millions of $ over 25 years on a program employing psychics (I kid you not), don't you feel so much safer?

    I wonder who the lucky contractor is who is going to be making a fortune off this one? Must be nice to make big money and never have to deliver anything which actually works. We have a military that was having to jerry-rig their own humvee armour and raise money from their parents to buy decent body armour--while contractors like this play around with nitrous bullets and loudspeakers.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:I feel safer already by badasscat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Between stuff like this and a CIA who wasted millions of $ over 25 years on a program employing psychics (I kid you not), don't you feel so much safer?

      Non-lethal weapons are hardly a waste of money. Nor are they really intended to protect anybody but the people they're being fired at. That's the point - society has all the "protection" it needs provided by police and military using lead bullets, but are we still so barbaric that we want police to shoot lethal weapons into a group of college kids who had a little too much to drink while celebrating their team's championship victory one night and end up a little too rowdy in the streets? Should the penalty for that be death?

      People here should be encouraging the development of non-lethal weapons, not making jokes about it or calling it a "waste". If you want a less abusive government, the way to get it is to promote things like non-lethal weapons.

      Not to mention both the article and article summary here seem to have been written by junior high schoolers - that's around the age when we all learn that "laughing gas" doesn't really make you laugh. Apparently somebody still hasn't figured that out. Nitrous oxide is an anesthetic and a sedative. Shoot a bunch of it at a rampaging crowd and you'll probably end up with a mob of lazy sunbathers instead of bottle-throwers.

  5. Safe for entire range? by borizz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article claims that the bullets would be safe over the entire range. I wonder how they made the bullets strong enough to survive the force of being fired, but weak enough to disintegrate harmlessly when striking flesh at point blanc.

    1. Re:Safe for entire range? by Kiffer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      maybe they are only safe for the shooter, not the target...

    2. Re:Safe for entire range? by east+coast · · Score: 3, Informative

      Perhaps it's like a Simunition FX.

      And please, don't misunderstand the non-lethal aspect of the technology. Non-lethal doesn't mean harmless. These rounds would likely cause bruises and sometimes breaks of the skin. I guess it's still better then being dead.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    3. Re:Safe for entire range? by apparently · · Score: 3, Interesting
      And please, don't misunderstand the non-lethal aspect of the technology. Non-lethal doesn't mean harmless. These rounds would likely cause bruises and sometimes breaks of the skin. I guess it's still better then being dead.

      Acquantances of Victoria Snelgrove might disagree with your definition of non-lethal.

    4. Re:Safe for entire range? by Dan+Ost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A baseball could cause the exact injuries that the pepper spray dispenser did to that poor girl.

      If we were to define non-lethal as not possible to kill someone with, we couldn't even define marshmallows as non-lethal due to their choking hazard.

      I would still rather get shot by a bean bag or teargas dispenser than a bullet or lead slug. Sure, it could kill me, but it is much less likely to.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    5. Re:Safe for entire range? by east+coast · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not to downplay the deaths of people involved in these incidents because you're absolutely right; the term 'non-lethal' has been challenged time and time again because of instances such as this. Note that the Wikipedia article does refer to the technology as 'less-lethal' as is being adopted elsewhere.

      So, sure, you're right but the overall use of these technologies are certainly much better then an outright firefight or some of the more physical methods used in the past. If it weren't for the development of 'less-lethal' devices Victoria wouldn't even be a footnote on a Wiki page. Deaths during large riots was the norm in the past, not the exception.

      Maybe there is a better way to handle it but we have made progress.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    6. Re:Safe for entire range? by eth1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "If we were to define non-lethal as not possible to kill someone with, we couldn't even define marshmallows as non-lethal due to their choking hazard."

      This is exactly why police departments, etc. don't ever refer to these things as "non-lethal" (at least not in an official manner). They're properly called "LESS-lethal."

  6. The Joker by boristdog · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Joker is working for DARPA now?

  7. Paintball fills by Baljet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I thought the use of paintballs filled with CS gas and permanent markers was already fairly wide spread by law enforcement...

  8. Reminds me of the gay bomb they wanted to make by trolltalk.com · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now THAT had me laughing ... except for the price tag - $7.5 million. I guess they wanted to add a whole new meaning to the term "comrades-in-arms."

    http://cbs5.com/topstories/local_story_159222541.h tml

    Pentagon Confirms It Sought To Build A 'Gay Bomb'

    (CBS 5) BERKELEY A Berkeley watchdog organization that tracks military spending said it uncovered a strange U.S. military proposal to create a hormone bomb that could purportedly turn enemy soldiers into homosexuals and make them more interested in sex than fighting.

    Pentagon officials on Friday confirmed to CBS 5 that military leaders had considered, and then subsquently rejected, building the so-called "Gay Bomb. Edward Hammond, of Berkeley's Sunshine Project, had used the Freedom of Information Act to obtain a copy of the proposal from the Air Force's Wright Laboratory in Dayton, Ohio.

    As part of a military effort to develop non-lethal weapons, the proposal suggested, "One distasteful but completely non-lethal example would be strong aphrodisiacs, especially if the chemical also caused homosexual behavior."

    The documents show the Air Force lab asked for $7.5 million to develop such a chemical weapon.

    "The Ohio Air Force lab proposed that a bomb be developed that contained a chemical that would cause enemy soldiers to become gay, and to have their units break down because all their soldiers became irresistably attractive to one another," Hammond said after reviewing the documents.

    "The notion was that a chemical that would probably be pleasant in the human body in low quantities could be identified, and by virtue of either breathing or having their skin exposed to this chemical, the notion was that soliders would become gay," explained Hammond.

    The Pentagon told CBS 5 that the proposal was made by the Air Force in 1994.

    "The Department of Defense is committed to identifying, researching and developing non-lethal weapons that will support our men and women in uniform," said a DOD spokesperson, who indicated that the "gay bomb" idea was quickly dismissed.

    However, Hammond said the government records he obtained suggest the military gave the plan much stronger consideration than it has acknowledged.

    "The truth of the matter is it would have never come to my attention if it was dismissed at the time it was proposed," he said. "In fact, the Pentagon has used it repeatedly and subsequently in an effort to promote non-lethal weapons, and in fact they submitted it to the highest scientific review body in the country for them to consider."

    Military officials insisted Friday to CBS 5 that they are not currently working on any such idea and that the past plan was abandoned.

    Gay community leaders in California said Friday that they found the notion of a "gay bomb" both offensive and almost laughable at the same time.

    "Throughout history we have had so many brave men and women who are gay and lesbian serving the military with distinction," said Geoff Kors of Equality California. "So, it's just offensive that they think by turning people gay that the other military would be incapable of doing their job. And its absurd because there's so much medical data that shows that sexual orientation is immutable and cannot be changed."

    1. Re:Reminds me of the gay bomb they wanted to make by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2
      Why would that change anything?

      OMG! I can't shoot him. He's beautiful!

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  9. Laughing Gas is a misnomer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Laughing Gas" won't incapacitate you from fits of laughter. It's a hypnotic agent.

    Actually quite a good idea for a payload if the delivery system works.

  10. Hee Hee Hee by SEWilco · · Score: 4, Funny

    crowds of rioters giggling uncontrollably
    They're called "Jokerz".
  11. "Laughing gas" isn't by CoolVibe · · Score: 5, Informative

    Nitrous Oxide, also known as "Laughing gas" does not make people laugh. Read more here on WikiPedia.

  12. Failed Stink Bomb Bullets by SirStanley · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Stink Bomb Bullets Project was scrapped because of the ineffectiveness against Hippies.

    --
    --------========+++Dont Feed The Lab Techs+++========--------
  13. Bullshit!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The US currently spends about 4% of GDP on defense. That is a lot lower percentage than during the Cold War days.

    In other words, we have so many resources, we can spare it for military purposes. Don't forget, the US military is the de-facto security force for NATO, the UN, and countries like Japan and Korea.

  14. Laughing Gas Does Not Generally Make You Laugh! by TechForensics · · Score: 2
    If a person breathes Nitrous Oxide mixed with air, he generally neither laughs or loses consciousness. A combatant would have to get several unadulterated lungfuls of N20 to pass out, and then would recover within a minute. How useless would this be as a weapon? How stupid can some in the military be? (I suspect the answer to both questions may be the same.)

    By the way, in light doses N2O is an analgesic. That's right, help the enemy endure their aches and pains!

    Geez we are talking bright here.

    --
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
  15. Would it even work? by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The question is: would it even work? Or would those contractors get big bucks for possibly the dumbest idea in history?

    Laughing gas not only doesn't make people actually laugh, and certainly not in the minute quantities you can fit in a rubber bullet (doubly so considering that you'll aim at the chest, not pump the gas over their nose), it gets people euphoric (a sort of high, basically), might even cause slight halucinations, and it dulls the sensation of pain.

    So shoot enough of these in an angry crowd, and now you have a crowd that's (A) angrier, since you just shot at them, (B) manic enough to do dumber things than normally, and (C) a lot less sensitive to pain. Just so, you know, they won't be as deterred by further rubber bullets or tear gas or a police batton. It sounds to me like just what you need to turn some unruly demonstrators into an outright riot. Or an outright riot into hell broken loose.

    Especially B scares me. Being high even on nitrous oxide might just impair people's judgment just that tiny little bit needed to do something really dumb. Like "heehee, let's throw a big rock at the cops." Or "heehee, let's get their guns and shoot a bystander." Sure, it's no LSD, but we're talking the kind of situations where it often takes just a spark to go downhill fast. You might need just one guy getting over his inhibitions or thinking he saw or heard the awfully wrong thing, to spark everyone else into going berserk.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Would it even work? by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Y'know, the very stuff you describe may in fact be the point of the whole line of research. It would save their budget on agent provocateurs.

  16. Re:Ok, then by estarriol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I recommend researching more of the history of mankind before demonstrating your ignorance of it. Literally everything you said in two short sentences is highly debatable at best.

  17. Ob(ligatory) Monty Python by rlp · · Score: 2, Funny

    From the "Killer Joke" skit:

    "All through the winter of '43 we had translators working, in joke-proof conditions, to try and produce a German version of the joke. They worked on one word each for greater safety. One of them saw two words of the joke and spent several weeks in hospital. But apart from that things went pretty quickly, and we soon had the joke by January, in a form which our troops couldn't understand but which the Germans could".

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
  18. Ahh.. Slashdot viral marketing.. by bigattichouse · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can't you see the rioting/giggling meme is just part of the viral marketing for the next Batman movie!?!?

    --
    meh
  19. Re:Ok, then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ok, then how bout the country that god obviously loves the most.

  20. Prior Art by delete · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Conclusive proof, as if it were needed, that Monty Python were ahead of their time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IysnS5wO60g

  21. Stop that project! Killing people is GREAT!????? by dwheeler · · Score: 2, Insightful
    That project needs to be stopped right away. What's the use of just temporarily incapacitating people? We need to make sure that anyone on the other end of the gun is dead, dead, dead, so we can forever enjoy the sorrow of their wives, children, and parents! Weeee! (boggle!)

    For the sarcasm-impaired: The previous paragraph is obviously lunacy. Since it's lunacy, I think having non-lethal alternatives is a GOOD idea. Foes of yesterday may be friends tomorrow (think Japan of WW II, etc.), so even if you're in a war, you may NOT need to kill your foe. It'd be great to avoid killing in many cases. Wouldn't it be great if there were LESS carnage in the future, not MORE? Wouldn't it be great if after a confrontation, most wives / children / parents got their loved ones back?!?

    Now this particular approach may not be very effective; maybe another one needs to be investigated instead. The term "non-lethal" is misleading; they DO kill occasionally (they just kill less often), and since they kill sometimes, they need to be reserved for serious situations the way lethal approaches are. That said, if you do not NEED to kill all your foes, having a "mostly non-lethal" alternative would be WAY better than the "mostly lethal" approach we have now.

    Yes, there's a risk that non-lethal approaches would be employed to create a police state. But you can have police states with lethal approaches too, and in fact, I'd argue that lethal approaches are more effective at countering civilians. Dead civilians don't try again. If there's a non-lethal approach, the civilians can try again later, something you can't say about lethal approaches.

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
  22. In addition.... by Guerilla*+Napalm · · Score: 4, Funny

    to the laughing gas version, they're also working on a bullet filled with laxatives - but that story was probably started for shits and giggles. *** I'll get my things ***

  23. We Could Use This Against Jihadis by aquatone282 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Lord knows they need a sense of humor.

    --
    What?
  24. Re:Ok, then by the_tsi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just because you're unhappy with your life, don't take it out on a whole nation.

  25. Re:Ok, then by estarriol · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, indeed anyone pointing out that the USA isn't the greatest nation in all categories *must* be unhappy with their life. They're probably terrorists too.

  26. Re:Not a good measure by Le+Marteau · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I do not know if it is a fair arguing against GDP, but knowing that the US military has got 40% of the total world gross expenditure is scarry, for a nation which was not attacked in its territory by other nation in the last 100 years


    'Scarry' for who? Not for the people living in the US, that's for sure. "Not attacked by other nations for the last 100 years?" Could the reason be, because they spend "40% of the total world gross expenditure" on military?

    Not saying it's right or anything. Just thought I'd connect the dots is all.
    --
    Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
  27. Re:Not a good measure by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The US is also supposed to help repel military invasions of all of Europe, all of North America, all of South America, Japan, South Korea...I'd say when you have to defend 40% of the Earth, you can have 40% of the world's defense expenditure.

    --
    In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199