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Newly Declassified Window Film Keeps Out Snoops
An anonymous reader writes to describe a newly declassified window film from CPFilms Inc. that could give war drivers fits. Scientific American has the story, which includes a rather dismissive comment by Bruce Schneier.
"Once manufactured under an exclusive contract with the US government, this recently declassified window film is now available to the public. But don't expect to see it on store shelves anytime soon. Currently, it's only available directly from the manufacturer, and at prices that will likely make it prohibitive for all but the wealthiest home owners.
The two-millimeter-thick coating can block Wi-Fi signals, cell phone transmissions, even the near-infrared, yet is almost transparent... It can keep signals in (preventing attempts to spy on electronic communications) or out, minimizing radio interference and even the fabled electronics-destroying electromagnetic pulse generated by a nuclear blast."
Nothing to see here, move along.
...all your signals are belong to us.
I would like the get rid of the tin foil ...
-- Make America hate again!
I don't know much about radio signals, but what about the walls and paneling? Can they get through that?
guess they still haven't gotten it to work yet
"minimizing radio interference and even the fabled electronics-destroying electromagnetic pulse generated by a nuclear blast."
yeah, but what about the walls? will the walls block it? if not then this stuff is not useless, but not as effective as one would imagine. not to mention that if a nuke went off I think we would have more problems than some EM pulse coming in through the windows...
Just make your house into one big Faraday cage, but what about the chimneys?
what I'm trying (and probably saying) is that you plug a hole, the waves will go through another. (not saying that we shouldn't plug them, just that we can't really stop until it is all sealed, in which case you live in a bubble.)
I spent part of the article thinking, "big deal about the price, someone will just torrent it and that'll be that."
If They could make it into a wallpaper they could apply it to the inside of cinemas so assholes will not sit next to you and text people through the entire film.
"Tinfoil hat" for your home blocks comms; Wednesday June 27, @01:06PM; Rejected
If you want to keep up with news like this (recall that "news" comes from Middle English for "new thing") just drop New Scientist and Scientific American into your RSS reader.
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
You should get rid of it anyway. http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
Now if only they could make hats out of this stuff, to protect our brains from their mind control rays...
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
If signals can't get out, they can't get in either so no using your cell phone inside or taking the cordless landline into the back yard. As for AM and FM radio, well who listens to that at home? (Well, me, since low bitrate music streams suck...)
Anyways, you need to shield your walls and doors for this window film to be effective. Or you could just use grounded window screens instead... Somehow, I doubt anyone is Van Eck Phreaking your home at the moment
A way to make cell phone signals even *worse* indoors.
No Thanks!
Don't mind a bit if movie theaters heap several layers on the ceiling, walls, and seats though. I'll help put 'em up.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Cool but useless. Even if you block out all the wireless waves coming out of your house you cant block them out of the silly cable router that is easily enough hacked by anyone how knows anything right. I can see people spending 10's of thousands on this crap and then having a belkin wireless router combo with an unsecured network.
"Newly Declassified Windows Film [...]"
I was like... 'wtf would Microsoft have done that was classified?' I still think it would have been more interesting that way.
This is non-news. Just some crap that will be bought by the paranoid. Whats next? Roofing underlayment that blocks free radicals?
If sharing a song makes you a pirate, what do I have to share to be a ninja?
..."transparent to over 50 percent of the light that shines on it" (direct quote from the article) even slightly the same thing as "almost transparent" (direct quote from the summary).
It'd be a bit like calling somebody "almost naked" when they're wearing a t-shirt and knee-length shorts...
Am I the only one that read `film' as `film' (i.e. `movie')?
-1 not first post
...open the front door.
A version of Windows that can keep things out!
Is there a shiny side is most reflective to NSA radiation?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
If it were effective, it would still be classified. Just another distraction to give people a false sense of security - the most valuable thing that'll come of ths is the list of purchasers, who "omg must be up to no good!!"
A few months back a friend introduced me to this. He isn't big into technology. He runs a window tinting company and wanted to know how legit this was, so we got some samples and tested it. I'm going to have to send him the link. This could be really big money for him, as he is getting in on the ground floor.
It appears to work exactly as promised, and honestly, in certain applications it is the only real way to secure wireless data.
The government declassifies technology all the time, usually after they've developed something better.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
So, am I supposed to cover my entire house with this stuff, or just the windows? If the latter, then am I supposed to build a Faraday cage into the walls of my house too? If not, this window shielding is pretty pointless. If I cared about keeping signals in/out that much, why would I install windows on the part of the building I want to keep secure in the first place?
I know everyone loves to bash Microsoft on /. - but lets be fair, this really shouldn't be tagged with the "Windows" tag.
Ever wonder why there's a "Linux" and an "Apple" section, but no "Microsoft" or even cleverly abbreviated "M$"?
There's your tinfoil conspiracy.
And tinfoil isn't made from tin. Stop calling it that.
Look, if it's all the same to other /. readers,
:-/
I'd be happy to find some affordable ( = cheap)
spray to apply to my car windows, to help keep
a bit of rain from making driving hazardous.
Anybody got some good ol' home remedies to that
problem, by any chance, thanks?
So they've finally invented transparent aluminum?
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
Based on the article's statement that "it can keep signals in ... or out" I am going to assuming that the film is actually two layers. As a single layer could only filter signals on one side or in one direction, think window tint, and allowing signals to pass though the opposite. Two layers placed with either filtering or non-filtering sides touching would produce the desired effect of filtering in both direction.
Most police speed detection equipment operates around the frequencies 17 - 27 GHz or with an infrared laser, ladar. If the film filters 2.4 GHz and "near-infrared" its probably broad enough to catch most of the spectrum used by police radar and ladar. I wonder if coating a car (not just the windows) with a single layer of film with the non-filtering side facing out would reduce the return signal from radar and ladar enough to prevent the equipment from working. Placing the non-filtering face out would allow the signal to pass though to the paint and body but would prevent the return signal from it bouncing of the paint or body underneath. Think one way mirror (except not on the mirror side) pointing a laser though the glass.
This combined with that Faraday paint stuff they sell could probably make a decently radio-quiet home, albeit expensive.
It can keep signals...out,...even the fabled electronics-destroying electromagnetic pulse generated by a nuclear blast.
Now that's serious product testing.
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
re:"minimizing radio interference and even the fabled electronics-destroying electromagnetic pulse generated by a nuclear blast"
Because in the event of a nuclear blast - the EMP is the least of your concerns when standing next to a window. Still, thank gosh they got that EMP problem licked. Bra-VO!
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Just wondering, this has nothing to do with MS Windows, right ? I was just confused while reading the begining of the article, wondering what a "windows film" could be...
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
What about the rest of the house?
.
it also means that you obviously wont be using your cell phone inside the house, you'll still need to go outside
Not always. Once you have a sealed RF container, you have the choice of what to let in and what to keep out. For example an active Cell/Pager repeater will provide excelent phone and pager coverage in the building. WiFi would not be in the passband and wouldn't get through. If you need it, you can always install an outdoor WiFi antenna and firewall it from your indoor LAN. Now WiFi works, but protected from snoops looking for the secure side of the LAN.
The truth shall set you free!
Copperfoil.
Mundus Vult Decipi
If it were effective, it would still be classified.
. kaya-optics.com/images/kodak_1_s.jpg&imgrefurl=htt p://www.kaya-optics.com/products/applications.shtm l&h=142&w=118&sz=23&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=KD3TcOf3Id c-bM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=78&prev=/images%3Fq%3DIR%2Bphot os%2Bsunglasses%2Btinted%2Bwindow%26gbv%3D2%26svnu m%3D10%26hl%3Den
Not always. Many things that were classified are no longer classified because they became common knowledge and no longer required protection. Some examples are encryption standards, Nuclear basics, some radio modulation techniques, some CPU's, some radio frequencies, and much data from WWII. Even some of the SR71 information is no longer classified.
The fact a window tinting film can have a metalized film that blocks RF is now common knowledge. Others have stumbled upon the fact. Offices with metalic colors such as bronze, copper or stainless, have had problems with cell and pager coverage. GPS users have had reception problems in some vehicles. Many films are designed to reduce IR transmission to keep the heat out. With all that general knowledge, having a classified film with these properties is a moot point.
Just because it is declassified does not make it ineffective. The stealth fighter is still a low radar profile item.
It was classified when the film was used on the cockpit windows of stealth fighters to prevent radar reflections from entering the cockpit and having a retro-reflection back to the radar source. It's now common knowledge the stealth fighters have RF screens over things like Jet intakes and conductive films over windows so the plane's cavities do not reflect a signal back to the direction it came from. This lack of a reflection back to the source is what makes a stealth plane invisable to radar. Very little signal returns. All reflections are sent off to an angle, not back to the source. It's no longer a secret, so the film tech is now declassified.
If you don't want to spend big bucks for the official military product, visit your local car window tinting shop. Ask for a film that keeps out the heat and has a a nice metalic tint. Ask for samples. Take them outside and lay them on your GPS while watching signal strength. Pick from the ones that kill the GPS reception. Now you have one that blocks far IR, maybe near IR and radio. If you need to block near IR, take a IR modified webcam and see if it is transparant in the near IR. Most non-metalic window tints are water clear in the near IR. An IR camera sees through them like ordinary window glass.
Sample photos of IR and sunglasses and other materials. Caution, fabric photo may not be safe for work.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www
The truth shall set you free!
"It can keep signals in (preventing attempts to spy on electronic communications) or out, minimizing radio interference and even the fabled electronics-destroying electromagnetic pulse generated by a nuclear blast."
I'm sure being able to view mutant porn after nuclear devastation hits will be a great comfort. Well done to all involved.
For this to work, one would have to completely seal their home and make a faraday cage out of it. Any kind of hole, slot, or notch, would radiate like an antenna, at least at some frequency, so it would be impractical, not to mention impossible, to make a home completely snoop-proof.
[Large corporate boardroom filled with suited executives]
Exec #1: Item six on the agenda: "The Meaning of Life" Now uh, Harry, you've had some thoughts on this.
Exec #2: Yeah, I've had a team working on this over the past few weeks, and what we've come up with can be reduced to two fundamental concepts. One: People aren't wearing enough hats. Two: Matter is energy. In the universe there are many energy fields which we cannot normally perceive. Some energies have a spiritual source which act upon a person's soul. However, this "soul" does not exist ab initio as orthodox Christianity teaches; it has to be brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation. However, this is rarely achieved owing to man's unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia.
Exec #3: What was that about hats again?
Exec #2: Oh, Uh... people aren't wearing enough.
Exec #1: Is this true?
Exec #4: Certainly. Hat sales have increased but not pari passu, as our research...
Exec #3: [Interrupting] "Not wearing enough"? enough for what purpose?
Exec #5: Can I just ask, with reference to your second point, when you say souls don't develop because people become distracted...
[looking out window]
Exec #5: Has anyone noticed that building there before?
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
Shielding is shielding. One layer is good, two layers is better, but they both work in both directions. And they don't work at all (as a Faraday cage) unless there's a seamless covering. It only takes a small gap with one dimension greater than a quarter wavelength to leak signal.
The tinfoil works to keep the wardrivers from seeing your wireless signal *and* the CIA/NSA from controlling your mind with their beams.
Just wanted to get that straight so nobody panicked unnecessarily.
Now, as to the parent poster's ideas for making his vehicle invisible to police radar...good luck with that. Let me know how it works out.
IF we've learned anything from the Sopranos, a criminal on the other hand, should be meeting face to face with an intermmediary, and using phrases like "that problem with our friend."
I'd give a lot to see that smug "Can you hear me now?" guy walk into one of those buildings.
Sounds like the company is in the "EM control" business, and selling the film at premium pricing to the govt. A standard anti-static bag like your motherboard came in will do pretty much the same thing - put your cellphone inside it and watch the signal strenght drop (make sure to fold the opening over, so the two sides make contact). A thin film of metal on window glass will have the same effect.
But, the devil's in the details. This is hinted at by the comment in the article about the film being sold as part of a complete shielding package. You need to make sure that the film makes contact all the way around the window frame and that the window frame makes perfect contact with the wall shielding system, and that the roof shielding system makes perfect contact with all the walls...etc.
There are companies that sell metallic fabric...and shielded baseball caps. Handmade tinfoil beanies mark you as a cheap paranoid nutter. For only $29.95 (plus tax and shipping), you can appear outwardly normal, while protecting your precious brain cells from CIA control rays.
Seal up those RF leaks tight. Then, when the firefighter is trapped and needs to call for help on his portable radio...Or when you're barricaded in a closet, hiding from an assailant and you pop out your cell to dial 911...
It's not just for windows, yes? Wouldn't you also have to wrap the whole house a-la making your home a Faraday Cage? Film is cheaper than a quarter-wave mesh I'll give them that. 'Course blocking your own cell phone from your own home is a tad over the top.
I mean, everyone should simply have a room in his house designed as a Faraday's cage to begin with, right? Now you can also have a view.
I automatically assumed from the title that it's some conspiracy to do with Microsoft and MPAA. Wrong on both accounts.
Blocking RF is easy if you don't need optical transparency - others have mentioned that many forms of insulation on the market already have metallized backing, for a theater one would just need a thin layer of metal foil in/on the walls. Paint with metallic particles or graphite powder mixed in would probably also work well.
The big news here appears to be that it's an optically transparent solution, not even tinted. (It's a known fact that automotive window tints are pretty good at blocking RF due to metallic content, which is why GPS receivers without external antennas work much better in some cars than others, although typically front windshields are never tinted, only rear/side windows are.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
But I want to know when they will invent a window covering that blocks out visible light. I wonder if they have a classified solution. :)
Rather, tinfoil hat == tinfoil ANTENNA
Wrapping something in a metal, such as aluminum, creates a Faraday cage. It doesn't need to be a solid surface, of course, a mesh will do just fine - depending on the wavelengths you need to block.
Interestingly this film is described as "newly declassified", but films capable of blocking all but visible light - based on transparent metal-dielectric layer sandwiches - have been around for several years and were publically reported here and here in 2002
So this is just government priced translucent mylar?
Seriously, it makes checking my e-mail in the winter SUCK...
"Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
You Slashdotted SciAM, You Bastards
That must be a hoax. Silicon-based sensors (like in all nonscientific cameras) work up to 1100 nm and no way that is going to pass through fabric without being scattered. The only exception might be very thin synthetic fabrics such as lycra that are basically transparent except for a black dye that is doesn't absorb near-IR. For example, cotton fibers are, like sugar, transparent to visible light, but because there are so many of them, it appears white. At least, until you fill the air gaps between the fibers with water as in a wet T-shirt contest. ;-)
Just to check, I just tried walking around in the lab with a special IR camera (up to 1400 nm) with an IR filter in front and indeed no way it will see through t-shirts. :-)
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
There are companies that sell metallic fabric...and shielded baseball caps. Handmade tinfoil beanies mark you as a cheap paranoid nutter. For only $29.95 (plus tax and shipping), you can appear outwardly normal, while protecting your precious brain cells from CIA control rays.
You can't trust them unless you can see the foil - they might have *gasp* put the shiny side on the inside, thus amplifying the mind control rays instead of deflecting them
We've secretly replaced Slashdot with new Folgers Crystals - let's see if it notices.
If an EMP generated by a nuke happened, wouldn't it just propagate along the power grid and still fry anything plugged in inside of the house?
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I've been saying for a long time that what the world needs is a simple passive defence against mobile phones. Putting up signs only pisses off people who weren't going to be using a mobile anyway, and there are enough people who ignore them to make them ineffective.
..... but they also can't annoy people with a phone if it simply doesn't work.
A faraday shield is unintrusive (if implemented properly) and can't be ignored. Nobody thinks their rights are being violated when they can't get a signal
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
this makes an excellent case for delegating to local commanders the absolute authority to launch on warning. That is to say The solution to this first strike by the enemy scenario problem is proper delegation: as soon as any local commander hears, sees, thinks, etc., an enemy attack percieved by him to be underway, he has the responsibility to launch his weapons whatever they are. He should also have the ability and authority to retarget as necessary to maximize enemy losses. This would be useful, say, if he knew that a bird targeted on one enemy asset was destroyed; and he knew that his assigned target was of suffieciently lower combat value to warrant a retargeting. This would stop the enemy capability of rendering our response impotent merely by taking out one target, the CIC. Any other policy is begging for our destruction. Somebody will no doubt flame this as a policy guaranteeing war, as human error is known to be the inevitable result of over 47 repetitive operations according to statistical studies. We are only in control of our side of this, and cannot dictate policies for any of our enemies. Any truly effective military force will probably have or will have considered a policy such as this, and probably have it in place covertly no matter what the posture shown as their public face.
4130 steel (and the slightly less common 4340) using chromium and molybdenum as alloying elements, was developed just before and during WWII by US metallurgists for use in aircraft, and was classified until the early 1960's. Now it's used for golf clubs and bicycle frames.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
4130 steel (and the slightly less common 4340) using chromium and molybdenum as alloying elements, was developed just before and during WWII by US metallurgists for use in aircraft, and was classified until the early 1960's.
The German cypher machine captured by the US was a highly guarded classified secret for obvious reasons. Now you can find photos of the Enigma machine online.
The truth shall set you free!
They only have Linux and Apple sections because they are rarer than Windows, and thus more interesting. If Linux or Apple ever gets 90% market share the need for special sections for them will disappear.
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
Don't you think it's kind of funny that everyone calls aluminum foil "tin foil" and accepts aluminum foil as a substitute for tin foil, even though they're two completely different metals? It's all part of the brainwashing, my friend. THEY know that our protective helmets won't work unless made from real tin.
I once worked in a building with a classified side and a unclassified side. Being in the unsecured area, I had no idea what they were doing on the other side, but one day someone noticed that 2 fluorescent lightbulbs leaned up against the hallway wall adjacent to the secure side were glowing. Tip the bulbs away from the wall, they dimmed. Scary.. if only they had had that film in the walls, I might not have to worry about shooting blanks!
That's an interesting one. Most of the captured Enigma machines were captured by the British, or given to them, and then they used them for diplomatic encryption for several decades afterwards (since they were the only people who had the facilities to decrypt them.) More interesting is that they successfully kept the whole program: enigma, decryption, capture and reuse, a nearly complete secret for 30 years, one of the few cases I know where a large-scale secret has been successfully kept. (People often talk about how impossible it is for large-scale secrets to be maintained, because so many have gotten out, but the ones that haven't gotten out, we don't know about, which is why it appears that they are impossible to keep. This simultaneously makes it look like secrets always escape, and better hides the ones that ARE kept, because we increasingly believe they can't be kept.)
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
If other people are dumb enough to pay to go see a movie and end up sitting there texting their friends, that's fine with me, as long as they aren't making any noise. If they were talking then I would have a problem.
Or are you just jumping on the bandwagon in screaming about people who can't seem to go anywhere without using their cell phone? Weren't they invented so you can use it almost anywhere? Isn't that what people do with them? Shit, if you want me to stay at home with my cell phone, then I'd be better off just using my land line.
You could do the same thing, minus the near IR blocking, by just grounding your (conductive) aluminum window screens.
This argument is bollocks.
A firefighter in a movie theater is going to get an emergency call? They let firefighters who are on the job just wander off and do whatever? Oh, you mean if there's a HUGE fire, and they need to be reached, even if they aren't on the job. Well, what if they were off camping where there is no cell service? It's the exact same situation.
A doctor in a movie theater has already set up a network of alternate doctors to get hold of when they can't be reached. Or have you not tried calling a doctor at an odd hour?
I use tin foil hats and a cone of silence. Both are easy to use and effective, and they stop security holes immediately at the source.
For this to be even REMOTELY feasible, it would need to be put not only on all windows, but in all walls and all ceilings.
A 2.6ghz or any cell signal doesn't need a window to get in your house. And someone can snoop through your walls just as easily as your window. I use my cellphone every day in a small brass box without any windows (an elevator) without any problem, so windows definitely aren't the only signal-leak problem.
This information was classified top secret.. Not any more. Many of the keys used in the past however may still be guarded secrets. We will never know.
_ Enigma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the
The truth shall set you free!
I suppose bulk orders directly from the manufacturers could be significantly cheaper.
The only exception might be very thin synthetic fabrics such as lycra that are basically transparent except for a black dye that is doesn't absorb near-IR
e d-nudie-pics-of-japanese-olympic-swimmers/
This is true and why IR voyouism was a problem, even at the Olympics. It was so much of a problem and recieved publicity that now official swimsuits are made to block IR for just this reason.
Cotton does scatter light. Most natural fibers do. Oil based Synthetics such a polyester scatter much less light, especialy when wet.
Here is the Endgadget article on the problem and the IR blocking solution.
http://www.engadget.com/2004/07/27/no-more-infrar
I was studying IR photography and was facinated with all the unseen things such as the new IR stripes on US money, healthy and unhealthy forests & plants, and found the articles on IR pass cloth and tinted windows.
I still don't have an IR camera, but will soon make one.
The truth shall set you free!
Do they sell caps/hats?
General Chat
This sort of thing used to be done with pagers.
Have you not heard of Doctors on-call? This isn't about you calling your regular doctor at an odd hour, it's about a hospital paging them because they're on rotation and are needed in ER.
And said Doctor (or whatever other profession, NOC admin, etc) wouldn't be in a movie theater and expect to NOT be reached, unless they wanted to get in trouble. Although one hopes they'd set the pager/cell/i$Device to vibrate.