Slashdot Mirror
T-Mobile Announces WiFi Meshing Cellphone
tregetour writes with a link to a New York Times article penned by David Pogue about a quiet announcement last week by T-Mobile. It has nothing to do with the iPhone, but it could still be a welcome revolution for users plagued by high cellphone bills. "Here's the basic idea. If you're willing to pay $10 a month on top of a regular T-Mobile voice plan, you get a special cellphone. When you're out and about, it works like any other phone; calls eat up your monthly minutes as usual. But when it's in a Wi-Fi wireless Internet hot spot, this phone offers a huge bargain: all your calls are free. You use it and dial it the same as always — you still get call hold, caller ID, three-way calling and all the other features — but now your voice is carried by the Internet rather than the cellular airwaves." He goes on to explain further benefits of the system, and describes the wireless routers that the company will be pushing with the service. The only thing missing: an estimate of when it will hit stores.
How about last week... when it actually hit stores? Anyway, it's just too bad that existing phones with WiFi like the Dash don't support this.
Now "I'm in the coffee shop. Where RU?" will take 10000 times the bandwidth it took on ICQ.
So much for Wi-Fi hotspots being useful for telecommuting...
Yeah, but how exactly is it a mesh?
What does this have to do with the iPhone? I mean, I know the summary says it doesn't have anything to do with the iPhone, but I'm not sure what that means. Did Apple figure out how to do this? Are they working with T-Mobile to roll it out? Are the phones made of white plastic?
Here's a link to their promo site http://www.theonlyphoneyouneed.com/
Funnypics
Seems a little steep for being allowed to run a SIP client on a machine I own.
Also, where does 'meshing' come into this? This isn't a mesh network. If it were, then I could route packets from my phone via half a dozen other random users' phones to a hotspot and not need T-Mobile's network at all much of the time.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Nokia launched the 6136 last Feb (2006) in Europe:8 5,39252128,00.htm
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/0,10000000
This does the roaming wifi/GSM stuff as well.
Tested in Oulu, Finland in 2006:
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/49241.html
Anybody know how those tests have gone, what the take up is?
Would hate to work for a fortune 500 company and be talking on this with a co-worker only to have the packets sniffed from some random server in Malaysia on a major pipeline.
Why should people pay extra for this? It seems like it should save T-Mobile money by reducing the load on their cell towers (allowing them to reduce their infrastructure costs).
And what about the consumer who isn't short on minutes? Why not offer an option to use it without an extra charge, but still charge minutes?
I believe 'meshing' here is referring to the seamless handoff of calls between GSM and WiFi, not that the phones form or use an adhoc WiFi mesh network. Agreed, not the right choice of words.
The real hotness about these phones: you can use them at any wifi hotspot in the world without roaming charges. That's a killer feature.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
So you can sell the "premium" service plan to them. Whether or not you make a call doesn't make a difference for most providers, the infrastructure is the same and has to be running anyway in order for you to get reception.
Yes, calling eats more bandwidth, but not everybody is calling at the same time nor 24/7 so the point is moot. That's how they can sell you unlimited calling/messaging plans at a premium ($5 extra/month).
The same here, whether or not the infrastructure will be used, the equipment and a reserved line has to be there (they will "reserve" bandwidth like most businesses, they can't afford to share all their bandwidth with other customers), the phone and service will come with an extra premium to pay for this though and there won't be 100 callers on a single router anyway, so there's always going to be place enough.
Take me for example, I pay $70 for 2 lines every month, whether I use the thousands-and-thousands of minutes with it or not is besides the point, my monthly costs are $70 no matter what I do with it, the revenue for the provider is the same whether I call or not, they have to power up the lines so I can make a call in the first place, whether or not it transmits data doesn't matter much then.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Like the rest of the Slashdot community at this point, I decided this summary was worth my time only after I discovered it had nothing to do with the iPhone.
Because T-mobil is more customer oriented then other AT&T family? Before anybody starts, I know, a business entity has to make money - but some companies out there do it without sucking their customers to death.
They are charging for it, $10 more a month. And when the phone is using Wi-Fi what's the likelihood the call is being routed through T-Mobile's lines? They're genius, getting double benefits, more money and less traffic.
TFA actually addresses these issues. Wherever you start your call is how it's billed. Who knows if it'll stay that way, but that's how it's starting anyway according to the article.
Also according to the article, it does indeed route from hotspot to tower without dropping the call, though going from traditional to hotspot configuration takes longer than the other way around.
Technology tips and tricks.
One thing I'd want to make certain of is that in the presence of both wifi and a cell network, it _always_ gives preference to the wifi, rather than occasionally deciding that the cell signal is stronger than wifi in my kitchen, and therefore starting on the cell and only switching over to the wifi at a later point. Has anyone seen anything that lays out the rules they use for network preference?
Let me preface the rest by stating I work in T-Mobiles Operations and Engineering Department, and helped alpha test this device. =) When making a Wi-Fi call, the handset creates a GSM tunnel allowing it to maintain the same security used on any normal cellular call you make. So if you're still afraid of people tapping your calls, I recommend that you don't use a cell phone at all. No releasing it at the same time as the iphone doesn't seem like the best bet, however I'm not in marketing ;)
One of the major advantages of this over a normal wi-fi phone, is that it will hand over between GSM and Wi-Fi and maintain the call. No other Wi-Fi call provider can offer that at this time (AFAIK).
If you buy the phone but not the service, you can still use Wi-Fi but it will use your minutes as normal, the feature just give you unlimited Wi-Fi calls.
Will it make calls for T-Mobile cheaper to process? Maybe if enough people start picking it up, but there was an investment in time and added hardware to the network that would need to be paid off first. But in the long run, yes t-mobile should save money as people route calls over IP, however, this savings is passed on to the customer in that they can make all the calls they want for $10 a month. (It's up to the customer to decide if they will use it enough to warrant that cost)
Working for T-Mo I think this feature is great, but my opinion is of course biased.
Good grief, from the number of "this isn't a Mesh" posts, it seems like no one is aware that the word "mesh" has a plain-English meaning. That's the great thing about context. When you read the summary, and then TFA, and you don't see mesh, you should think "Oh, they meant mesh in the sense of joining".
Just because a word has a technical meaning for branding purposes, the plain-English meaning isn't somehow superseded or obsolete.
*most people never really think about the consequences*
With people getting arrested for using free WIFI1 551227)
(http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/23/
why would you use this?
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Try again. T-Mobile has subscription-based WiFi hotspots in popular locations like Starbucks. Seems like this move is about lining T-Mobile's pockets just as much as regular cell service.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
The biggest problem with mobile wifi is hand offs. It's been a while since I've looked into the issue, I know there were a couple of MIT guys working on millisecond hand off from one hotspot to the next a year or two ago, but the power consumption was huge.
Cellphones don't have to handle hand offs, the towers do all the work. I had a job doing a lot of testing of call hand offs a few years back. You literally drive back and forth between a few towers, or in a bad hand off area (especially around lakes) and work on programming the towers as to when they should hand calls off to another tower based on vector, signal strength, and a tower list. The whole thing is dynamic too, so weather changes, call volume, new construction, etc... can all be handled at least in the short term with out further work.
I know Sysco has some really cool auto-meshing technology that makes their routers talk to each other and adjust signal strength to pick up for downed antennas, but that technology would have to mature a lot to get the same kind of hand off performance as cell phones enjoy.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
As with anything technological, it seems to me, there's a 10% who explore and the rest settle for whatever is convenient and non-threatening. I'm interested in the 10%, because they'll forge the way for the rest............eventually.
technical writing / development
Phone companies don't want to charge less for bandwidth, consumers don't want to be confronted with the fact that they're currently paying 1 cent per byte for some things.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
The article linked to from the summary seems to speculate a little beyond the official press release from T-Mobile.
Specifically T-Mobile says this will be available from your home Wi-Fi and from T-Mobile hotspots. It makes no mention of general availability from any WiFi location. The story author seems to speculate that this will be due to registration web pages and what-not. Based on my experience with UMA or DMS (Dual-Mode Service) technology and product offerings, I'm imagining the actual reason is E911. The company has to know an approximate location for your phone to supply to 911 dispatchers... Normal location base services (LBS) use antenna face and signal attenuation, or cell tower triangulation, or similar strategies. With WiFi, these don't work... so you need to know the location of the WAP. If it is a HotSpot... T-Mobile already knows and if it is your home WAP... You tell T-Mobile when you sign up for the service.
Also, these types of services do not use SIP (or MGCP or H.323 for that matter), they use GSM tunneled over IP. That is how the meshing is accomplished. The registration event for the GSM-o-IP service is where the MAC address for the WAP being connected to is supplied to the service provider for use with LBS (such as E911).
Which would probably be totally true HAD THE ARTICLE NOT SPECIFICALLY STATED that you could use your phone FREE at Starbucks T-Mobile hotspots!
What do you think the $10 a month is for? T-Mobile is basically signing you up for a subscription to their WiFi service. Which is probably cheaper to run than the cell service. So T-Mobile gets you to sign up for cell service AND WiFi, then gets you to use less of the expensive GSM airtime and more of the inexpensive WiFi time. Voila, T-Mobile profits.
Quite a nifty scheme, actually.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Wifi enabled raviolis!
I've been offered jobs by both Sysco (sales rep, while working at a restaurant in HS/college. The regional manager ate there regularly, and he apparently liked the cut of my gib) and Cisco (In IT now.)
Now, i'm hitting the gym hardcore so i can look good in a thong and complete the Sisqo trifecta.
The correct term is "unmetered." The minutes as such are free. The service is $10.
I can attest, it changes over from VoIP to cellular tower seamlessly, with no noticeable change.
I start my calls while standing or parked next to a Starbuck's, drive off, and the entire call is free.
seamless handoff taking one minute??? may be they should explain a little bit more about what will happen during that one minute if we are on a call with someone at that moment?
You remain on the cell network for a minute longer then expected. That's all. But since they charge you against the cell phone minutes to go from cell -> wifi after the handoff the extra cellphone minute you use up is insignificant at this point.
I use this Hotspot@Home service and find it fantastic! T-mobile already offers the best customer service, now I have a cell tower in my bedroom...and free wifi roaming while overseas.
The Good
-WiFi call quality better than GSM
-WiFi-GSM hand-offs work well
-No minutes charged for calls started on WiFi and finished on GSM
The Bad
-Will not work with hotspots that require a web log-in (aside from T-mobile USA Hotspots)
-The bundled router does not support Mac OS X (to register you need to run a Windows-only application from a CD)
The Ugly
-The service currently works with only 2 very basic phones that even lack a web browser...even though high end devices like the Dash have wifi chipsets
"...What is good for General Motors is good for America." -Charles Wilson, Secretary of Defense and fmr President of GM
T-Mobile's GSM/WiFi phones do not use SIP when they are on WiFi. Instead, they
use a tunneling mechanism to tunnel back to the operator's core, and connect
to their GSM MSC instead through translation layer called UMA (Universal
Mobile Access).
GSM/UMTS has this concept of non-access-stratum
signaling, which consists of messages that are tunneled between the MSC
and the phone, which are completely transparent to the underlying
transport technology. (BTW, the presense of these layers is partially
what makes UMTS/GSM signaling so complicated, especially compared to
competing equivalent technologies like CDMA).
So you are absolutely not offloading the operator's core network. You
are offloading the RF network and the towers, however, which is why
you get some price break.
Magnus.
The underlying technology is most likely UMA : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlicensed_Mobile_Acc ess/
We've had offers based on this in Europe for over a year.
Very roughly speaking, this works by encapsulating GSM over IP+Wi-Fi. This is why handover between the GSM cell network and the Wi-Fi connection is possible at all : AFAIK, the phone still uses all the higher layers of GSM and the operator's usual servers on their GSM network. Your Wi-Fi access point is just another cell tower.
I personally see this technology as the "evil telecom world's" preferred way to add VoIP on a GSM phone (as opposed to the Internet world's plain old good SIP).
I'd much rather use a real GSM + SIP/Wi-Fi phone like my Nokia E65.
VoIP and GSM calls are perfectly integrated together, and using the SIP account associated with my landline (this is with the "Free" ISP in France), I can call and answer my home calls anywhere in the world exactly as if I were sitting in my sofa, and at the same rates, i.e. free for national calls and to around 30 countries