Games Workshop Forbids Warhammer Fan Films

EikeHein writes "Made by dozens of fans over a period of several years and featuring impressive special effects, the feature-length Warhammer 40.000 epic DAMNATUS ranks among the most elaborate fan productions ever made — and yet may never see the light of day. Despite initially giving a go-ahead to the project, UK-based Warhammer franchise owner Games Workshop has come around to forbid distribution of the film just as it was being readied for release. What's more, they've amended their IP Policy to forbid any such projects in the future. At the heart of the matter appears to be Continental European copyright law, which grants the German film makers certain irrevocable rights to their creation which they cannot sign away. Given that the owners of the other two SF mega-franchises, Star Trek and Star Wars, have been able to come to terms with such issues and arguably benefit greatly from the media attention paid to popular fan productions, it would seem that Games Workshop still has to learn a thing or two about how to capture fan enthusiasm for their benefit."

Comments

Preposterous

[Control Group]

Well, congrats to GW for taking my general disinterest for their products and elevating it to actual dislike of their organization.

Ignoring my personal purchasing decisions, though, this is still stupid. I mean, it's not like Games Workshop actually sells games. They sell miniatures. They encourage purchase of the miniatures with something like a game structure (so it's a little more advanced than playing with toy soldiers...but not much more advanced than the games I invented for my various little figures when I was 10. Except for Blood Bowl, of course. That game is two shots of high-proof awesome.) that requires you to buy more miniatures if you want to play by the rules and an (admittedly) pretty compelling universe to set your encounters in.

I would, in fact, make the case that the universe is more important to their income than the "games" are. I know plenty of people who play Warhammer with pretty major departures from the rules, but I don't know anyone who plays Warhammer without Orcs.

So when presented with an opportunity to, at no cost, generate fan excitement and greater exposure, you'd think the smart thing to do would be to run with it as far as possible. Squelching it - moreover, squelching it in a way that makes you look like a bully, an ingrate, and general underdog-trampler - would seem to be the worst thing you could do.

I mean, aside from kicking puppies and smogging out rainbows.

(As an aside: the bright spot in all this is, should some miracle of rationality prevail, and GW manage to figure out that blocking this is a bad move, it should generate plenty of publicity for the project)

Re:Preposterous

[andrewd18]

I don't know anyone who plays Warhammer without Orcs.

Waaagh!! We be Orks wid uh k, you insensitive 'umie!

Re:Preposterous

[Phanatic1a]

I would, in fact, make the case that the universe is more important to their income than the "games" are. I know plenty of people who play Warhammer with pretty major departures from the rules, but I don't know anyone who plays Warhammer without Orcs.

And the ironic part is that the Orcs are what aren't necessary to play the game. They make (relatively) inexpensive rulebooks and horrifically expensive miniatures. It would be entirely possible to play the game by buying the inexpensive rulebooks and using a bunch of scraps of paper with "Orc" written on them in crayon in lieu of the expensive orc miniatures. But as you said, nobody does that.

They're an an enviable position of having valuable IP that's *hard to reproduce*. But they still end up being dicks over it.

Re:Preposterous

[russian_casey]

This isn't surprising at all...I've been playing 40K since 1994 and have watched GW threaten all sorts of "intellectual property" suits, all the while driving prices through the roof and driving quality through the bedrock. Yes, the models look good today, but they don't have the same sort of character as the old stuff did (Rogue Trader-era was the Golden Age of Citadel for a good reason).

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Games Workshop is the Microsoft of miniatures gaming. Fuck you, Games Workshop.

Anyone interested in a huge 40K Ork army, cheap?

Re:Preposterous

[BadMrMojo]

I mean, it's not like Games Workshop actually sells games. They sell miniatures. ...
Except for Blood Bowl, of course. That game is two shots of high-proof awesome.

Important note: Blood Bowl - along with Necromunda, Mordheim and some of the other Specialist Games which essentially got axed - did not require a huge investment in miniatures. One team per person is enough to play. A full collection (one of absolutely every possible legal team configuration) would probably be less than 200 miniatures (although I can't be arsed to figure it out exactly at the moment).

Re:Preposterous

[lakeland]

No, nothing like D&D. It is battle reenactment except it also has fantasy sets (hence orcs) and futuristic sets (robots). There isn't any role-playing or characters - the players are sorta army generals trying to coordinate their armies.

Re:Preposterous

[Control Group]

Warhammer is a tabletop - ie, using miniatures - tactical war game with role-playing elements. Rather than using a hex map or other grid, all line-of-sight and range measurements are actually taken relative to the actual analog position and facing of the miniatures. The business proposition from Games Workshop is that they sell you the rulebooks for the game. The rules include provisions requiring you to purchase Games Workshop miniatures (eg, if the miniature on the table doesn't have a boltgun in its hand, the character it represents also doesn't have a boltgun in its hand); GW is, first and foremost, a seller of miniatures. Warhammer as a universe encompasses several different game systems and miniature series: Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000, Battlefleet: Gothic, and Necromunda all spring to mind, though I believe there are others.

In my opinion, the game aspect of it is particularly shallow in comparison to most other similar games (tabletop tactical), with odd and limiting provisions such as only being allowed to fire at the nearest enemy.

One way to look at it is that Games Workshop is the grown up (that is, expensive) version of playing with toy soldiers: you collect your toy soldiers, then get to use them in a game structure.

(Note: I completely understand the attraction of buying and painting miniatures, building up huge collections of them, and getting enjoyment out of deploying them in a structured game format; I don't mean to disparage it as a hobby. I, personally, prefer the game to be more involving than the game pieces, but I'm not much of a collector.)

Re:Preposterous

[garyok]

Well, congrats to GW for taking my general disinterest for their products and elevating it to actual dislike of their organization.

Way ahead of you, big man. I used to be a real hardcore fan of GW and, back in the day, I was a subscriber to White Dwarf for a long time but around #110ish things started going badly, badly wrong at the ranch. That's about when they switched their focus from RPGs to the miniatures business. They stopped doing articles on other companies' games and started bigging up Warhammer, Blood Bowl, and WH40K. They even seemed to lose interest in their own roleplaying games. Before that it was a hell of a magazine - fiction, articles, art, and quality all the way. After that it became a big ad you paid for. I had no interest whatsoever in their dinky little toys and I was on a one-way ticket to Alienation City. It was a real shame because a lot of real talent used to contribute.

They seem to be doing well enough out of it but, if such a thing is possible, they sold their soul back at the end of the 80s for their money. Plus the staff in the stores I've visited since are total dicks.

Re:Preposterous

[Seraphim_72]

I tried this once with MTG. A bunch of my friends used to play, so one day we sat down at the table and everybody got out their carefully crafted decks and I brought out a large deck of cards.

"What is that?"

"My deck, it is a black green deck, mostly rares, should work well together."

"What?"

You see I had scanned in the cards from one of the "recognition manuals" printed them on a color printer and taped them to regular playing cards. The whole room about blew a gasket. One guy, who owned the big 7 (or whatever they were called moxes, lotus, etc) about had a heart attack. This was a guy that for a few of his rares would take a land and write the name of the rare on it in marker and use it in play - that was OK, because he 'owned' the real card. We argued for quite a while about it all. I finally gave up, I gave up MTG a few months later realizing what a money sucking hole in the ground it was, and is to this day.

Side note, before I gave it up I tried to talk them into what was essential sealed deck games long before they became the norm for tournaments, not a one would do it. It was so out of their mindset they literally couldn't comprehend it.

Re:Preposterous

[Control Group]

How is this surprising? I imagine you'd get a similar reaction if you sat down at a poker table and produced a stack of hundreds you had run off on your inkjet. The scarcity of the game piece (in this case, money) is key to the game.

Similarly in M:tG, the game balance depends on the rarity of the cards. Free access to as many copies as desired of whatever cards you choose does completely change the nature of the game (which is why you always want to play with people in similar financial circumstances as yourself...sort of like poker).

If your point was simply to highlight that WotC was selling cards rather than a game, fair enough - though I don't think there's anyone who would argue with you. It is, after all, called a collectible card game for a reason.

If your point was to make a negative comment about either your friends or players of M:tG, however, I think you missed the mark.

Re:Preposterous

[Anonymous Coward]

I want to share a GW story that involved a gaming store I used to frequent:

A few years ago GW set mandatory sell targets for their merchandise. If you weren't pushing their games and selling x amount of figures every week, they would drop you as a supplier. So a lot of gaming stores sucked it up and really pushed GW hard, resulting in an expected increasee in GW sales. GW then analyzed the sales demographics and totally fucked these top selling stores by cutting off their stock and opening Games Workshops stores right in the middle of their territories. My favorite gaming store went under a year later. I will never forgive GW for this. They are a loathsome company who screwed over the very people who made them successful in the first place - fuck you GW, you worthless pricks!

Re:Preposterous

[mal3]

That's not the half of it. From the GW website:

This also means that we cannot allow tattoos as an acceptable use of our IP as a third party necessarily has to perform the "service."

So if i get a Tattoo of one of their trademarks, exactly what do they plan to do about it?

Re: Preposterous

[Sawopox]

I had to clear up a few things here and there, not just in this post.

First of all, Games Workshop does *not* produce miniatures of any sort. The miniature models come from Citadel Miniatures. Games Workshop produces games.

The older models were quite expensive. Lead, and most recently pewter, hand-cast miniatures are not exactly cheap pieces like those found in Monopoly. That, and if you've actually held and seen some of the miniatures, they have FANTASTIC detail. To address the cost question, plastic miniature kits have been produced for almost all army types, lowering the cost. A quality army can be built for $100 or so now, as opposed to $400 ten years ago.

As an aside, I'd take the $400 army of high quality pewter models over the $100 plastic kits though.

Re:Preposterous

[BridgeBum]

There is a role playing version of Warhammer (with the ever so original name of Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing or FRP), which is actually not a bad system at all. Brings back memories from many years ago. It is true that when most people refer to 'Warhammer', they are thinking the miniatures battles.

Re:Preposterous

[Saxerman]

I'm a fan of Warhammer 40k not so much for the game system for but for the game content. They're created an incredibly interesting game universe which lends itself well to telling stories about the massive conflicts between their various factions. I've been a fan for years, and have witnessed the terrible debacle as Games Workshop tries to define itself. Though out the years, they have been painfully protected of their 'content' and have been 'unusually' picky about who and where they license it. If you compare the vast litany of licensed fan fiction nobles created for the various FASA universes, you can see the relatively sparse offerings available.

At first they were completely against the idea of creating any computer games, as they were terrified that players would be able to enjoy their content without buying their over-priced miniatures. The few games that have been attempted in the past were largely crap. Starcraft was originally going to be set in the 40k universe, but, again, they pulled out at the last minute and Blizzard was forced to rename their units and rewrite their story. Partly based on the success of Starcraft, they finally agreed to try again with Relic and Dawn of War was the first game they actually allowed to continue to completion that wasn't total crap.

Strangely, their over-priced miniatures are their major source of revenue. I say it's strange because over the years their models have largely become high priced crap. The exception being for their Forge World miniatures which are much more expensive, but are typically of exceptional quality. They 'control' their miniatures market by being the sole provider of 'official' miniatures for their products, which they enforce by only suppling game shops that agree to their questionable control practices. This is even more strange because the only reason to actually buy and use their miniatures is so that you can compete in licensed tournaments. You could just as easily use pennies and bottle caps to represent your forces to play at home. Of course, as anyone who actually plays and enjoys miniatures knows, that's not the point.

So I'm not terribly surprised to see them dragging their feet on this again. They've been playing around with movie deals for years, and in typical Games Workshop style they still have nothing to show for it. And now when their fans who decide to put together their own movie... they still have nothing to show for it.

Re: Preposterous

[Phanatic1a]

First of all, Games Workshop does *not* produce miniatures of any sort. The miniature models come from Citadel Miniatures. Games Workshop produces games.

This is a meaningless distinction. Citadel Miniatures is a *brand* of Games Workshop. What you just said is akin to saying "General Motors does not produce cars of any sort. The cars come from Chevrolet."

Re: Preposterous

[NeilTheStupidHead]

$100? Surely you jest, unless you're referring to the purchase of used models via a service like eBay (which does have some fantastic deals). A box of basic troops (W40k) or a core unit (WFB) is about $45 CDN and about $35 US. You need far more than two or three of these plus more to make even a basic army. The Batallion boxes are $90 US and $135 (or so) CDN; these are a good start, but still not enough to have more than a very simplistic army. $200 is certainly a good number for a reasonable start. At current market prices, my investment is well over $2000 for three armies.

While I agree with you that the pewter minis are higher quality (given the relative age of the sculpt i.e. Dark Eldar) overall, the plastics are far more enjoyable to work with from a customization angle. A limited edition pewter piece looks amazing as a centre piece to an army or a squad, but 15 of them don't stand out, they just blend in, especially when you consider that pewter models have very limited posability. And if you haven't seen some of the newest plastic moulds, you might be in for a suprise, the quality is leaps and bounds over those 1st generation plastic Space Marines or Gobbos (which haven't been retired quite yet)

Re:Preposterous

[yogi]

And you are not the only one who came to that conclusion. I've got a big stack of White Dwarf back episodes from my subscription, and the first editions of WH40K and WHRPG, but lost interest when the rules started changing so you would need to buy more ( relatively expensive ) vehicle miniatures.

Of course, before WD become a large, paid for, GW advert, they used to publish adventures and source material for all sorts of games in the magazine. I can look in the corner of the room now, and see Traveller, AD&D and other game system adventures published in White Dwarf. If that's not making money from derivative works of other peoples IP, I don't know what is. And what's more, they did this quite unashamedly for 10 years, before GW had enough games to fill the pages with adverts for their own games. Talk about hypocrisy.

Re: Preposterous

[Hognoxious]

First of all, Games Workshop does *not* produce miniatures of any sort. The miniature models come from Citadel Miniatures.

They were once a separate company (in theory) but now they're not even a wholly owned subsidiary. More like a department.

Re:Preposterous

[R_Dorothy]

Careful - Orcs with a 'k' almost certainly violates their IP.

Re:Preposterous

[Hognoxious]

That's about when they switched their focus from RPGs to the miniatures business.

For me they jumped the shark when they introduced that stupid imperial chariot with the 20 foot long musket that could shoot the enemy general (even through a hill) anywhere on the board if you could roll 2 or above on 2D6. Around 1990?

Then there was the stupid colleges of magic thing that seemed like a cross between Terry Pratchett and scissors-paper-stone.

Re:Preposterous

[WhatHappenedToTanith]

One of the things that really makes me slap my forehead and say 'doh' regarding the quake mod is the large number of GW players who got into the miniatures from the computer games - especially Dawn of War. People are normally going to buy a branded, similar game if there is a decent fan-created game out there which spreads interest around, and at the end of the day GW need interest to help sell their miniatures. They could even license and improve good fan games in a similar fashion to what happened with Counterstrike. GW made a killing from the interest gained from Lord of the Rings so why not do it in reverse and encourage the spread of their IP with fan created content... oh yes you already said it... they are retarded.

Re:Preposterous

[rgaginol]

Yeah dude, I couldn't agree more... GW used to be good, *sigh*. I'm not sure when it turned sour, but something definitely went odd in the GW mix about a decade ago.

At the moment, I'm about to get back into the swing of things after a decade long hiatus from miniatures with other pursuits (I just can't seem to get rid of that hankering of painting nicely done miniatures). Yet... after checking out the local GW store and noticing that:
- Most of the cool miniatures now suck or have been replaced with 'yet-another-iteration-of-the-army'... this is like the 3rd iteration of Tyranids...
- Most of the nice boutique games like Necromunda are old history.. or at least can only be ordered through the US/UK stores (the good games which meant you only had to collect a few miniatures)
- Most of the good metal miniatures going plastic... seriously, plastic Terminators??? Those are meant to be ball breaking mega troops... yet how can they stoke the imagination when they sound like lego?
- A terrible experience with the staff at the GW store... I've never had a sales assistant literally hump my leg before then

So, since then I've re-evaluated my options:
- I spent a bit more then I'd like (via E-Bay) getting an out of production functional Space Hulk set together with proper metal Terminators. That game was awesome fun... lots of thinking and the guessing, gods that was good.
- I also went a bit crazy with some Warmachine stuff (the e-bay seller 'discount_games' in the USA was half the price of any stores in Australia). Me and a buddy figure Warmachine should take a hell of a lot less miniatures for a fun game, and the focus with them is as much on collecting and painting as the actual playing.

So off I go... See ya later GW. This latest fiasco won't mean much to me, but I'm sure that there are plenty of current fans who will see this as a reason to start re-evaluating their own choice to buy into the GW universe or others.

Re:Preposterous

[Molochi]

No. Paper rulebooks. Fantasy Lead/Pewter/Plastic Miniatures. Buncha geeks arguing about obscure game related rules. Deathstalker II playing n the background. Maybe 1 girl in 10 gamers. Nothing like D&D.

Re:Preposterous

[z3d4r]

friend of mine had a tyranid army made entirely out of cheap plastic frogs

Re:Preposterous

[Seraphim_72]

I disagree, it is more like entering a poker game where you can only buy the cards you are dealt - "sorry bub, I can't deal you an Ace till you dropped $1000 for it" (thus my point). Poker can be a game of skill. Magic quickly descended into who could spend more money. They even started selling "tournament decks" for Pete's sake. Your annalogy might make some more sense if there were "I dropped $500 this month on cards" tables, as it stands, you always walked into a supposedly level field. For all the great "skillz" that every Magic player thought he had in the beginning of the game, it was really who had more disposable income to drop on cards. But you missed my point entirely, and the fact that you remembered (where I did not) the correct abbreviation for it makes me wonder how much of your cash went down that rabbit hole.

Obviously I didn't miss the mark.

Re:Preposterous

[KDR_11k]

From what I read about the history of GW they started with making rulebooks for reenacting historical battles with toy soldiers.

Jolly Roger

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose they could sue Games Workshop, but that would drag on for a rather long period of time. By the end of the lawsuit, the movie will be irrelevant regardless of the outcome. And after 4 years of film development, that's a really cruddy result. Especially since it sounds like the only problem is that Games Workshop wants 100% control and they can't have it. Well duh, it's not your film. It's a fan creation that you *should* be finding a set of guidelines under which it can be distributed.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I hear that there are alternative (?) distribution methods out there. Something about "hoisting the flag" and all that?

*ahem* *ahem* *ahem*

"Arrrrghhhh"

Re:Jolly Roger

[sorak]

I suppose they could sue Games Workshop, but that would drag on for a rather long period of time. By the end of the lawsuit, the movie will be irrelevant regardless of the outcome. And after 4 years of film development, that's a really cruddy result. Especially since it sounds like the only problem is that Games Workshop wants 100% control and they can't have it. Well duh, it's not your film. It's a fan creation that you *should* be finding a set of guidelines under which it can be distributed.

The real tragedy is that after four years of working on a project, just to have the company that originally gave you permission say "throw it away. We changed our minds and would like for you to undo all of your work". After that, how hard will they try to get it distributed? Someone may put it out there just for spite, but I doubt it will ever be the labor of love that it once was.

A "fuck you" from GW...

[imbaczek]

...to which fans will reply with a generous "fuck you too."

More news at 11.

Re:A "fuck you" from GW...

[Kitanin]

You're funny.

Seriously, based on the players I see in the two GW stores in town, I doubt more than 10% of GW's base these days knows there's a story behind the minis, let alone that some people in the other 10% were making a fan film about it. This is going to be a ripple, at best.

And if it gets any bigger, we'll just feed the God-Emperor of Mankind a few hundred more souls today, and he'll smooth it right out.

Simple Solution

[rhartness]

"Dammit! 'Somebody' has leaked the film..."

Re:Simple Solution

[orkysoft]

Probably a rogue trader.

Games Workshop has a lot to learn about fandom

[ArchAngelQ]

They've done a lot to undermine their fans for years. That they are now buggering this up surprises me not at all.

They have many creative individuals working for them that I respect, but as a company, they have basically sucked to be a fan of for YEARS.

And really, their background material is largely 'borrowed' from other fantasy and sci-fi sources anyway, so that they should be so very protective, when the movie will just bring them more exposure and act as a huge advert for them, seems utterly ridiculous.

GW really knows how to reach fans!

[HexRei]

That is really too bad. GW has made some great games over the years, I really enjoyed Warhammer and Space Hulk as a kid. Now, I HATE Games Workshop and hope their offices get infested with lice and skunks.

Re:GW really knows how to reach fans!

[3chuck3]

And Tryranids and Necrons...

sell it to games workshop!

[SolusSD]

its all in the subject line

IP Laws

[GWLlosa]

Apparently, they were completely willing to sanction the movie under the terms of a deal that they and the movie producers had agreed to regarding the ownership of the intellectual property (i.e., Games Workshop's entire universe). Then it turned out that according to German copyright law, the producers are prevented from signing away some of their own rights, which derailed the deal. What I'm curious about is what rights are you prevented from signing away? Does this mean that German developers can't assign copyright to 3rd parties (FSF?)? Does it only apply to movies? Why would it be a problem to willfully and knowingly explicitely sign away your rights to something as nonfundamental as a movie?

Re:IP Laws

[EikeHein]

Indeed, this has implications for European open source developers as well. The FSF Europe's mechanic for dealing with this problem is called the "Fiduciary License Agreement" (FLA) which works by giving $central_body a license that allows it to e.g. relicense code contributions made by the copyright owner. Press coverage on the FLA: http://www.linux.com/articles/60129

Re:IP Laws

[Zatic]

You can't sign away Urheberrecht, which simply states that you are the original creator of a piece of art. Kinda makes sense to me.

They could sign over the copy/distribution/whatsorever rights with no problem. But still GW can't say that they created this movie. Which they haven't. That's all there is to it.

Re:IP Laws

[mocm]

I don't know if this is the relevant part of German copyright law,but it states that in case the work is resold, the original author can get a percentage of the price. This right cannot be signed away. But is limited by a 12500 Euro cap.

Re:IP Laws

[Gorath99]

IANAL, but this may be about the moral rights of the authors, which includes things like the right of attribution. In some countries/jurisdictions these rights can go quite far and cannot be transfered or waived. For instance, in The Netherlands, artists can object to defilement of their work. This can have nasty implications, for instance, when you want to alter a building you own in a way that the architect or interior designer objects to. My alma mater cannot alter the interior design of one of its libraries for this reason.

Re:IP Laws

[foobsr]

What you cannot sign away is the fact that you are the creator (Urheber). If you are an employee, it is a different story.

You can however sign away commercial rights (usage, protection).

This is what the German Wikipedia says (and what I recalled).

CC.

Well, duh

[slapout]

1. Leak film on bittorrent.
2. ?
3. Profit!

Why doesn't GW just build a public website

[lena_10326]

....for fans to submit work? Videos/art/themes/scripts/mods/etc.

GW gets the credit and any revenue generated; fans get to be creative.

If I was their CEO, that's the way I'd do it.

Call it a parody instead

[athloi]

Then it's legal.

This doesn't get around a truth of a world in which ideas generate money in a hostile environment where those without money suffer badly. If you create something, and own it, and want to keep profiting off of it, the tendency is to reserve as many rights as possible. And until you get the fifty million bucks that puts you and your family out of society's reach, that's what you're gonna do.

Wonder how long that ill-designed paradigm will last.

Re:Call it a parody instead

[iAlta]

Probably won't work, since ... it's not.

Re:Call it a parody instead

[bigdavex]

Call it a parody instead. Then it's legal.

Hmmm. What if we call it a banana?

Re:Call it a parody instead

[nightrain_tg]

Hmmm. What if we call it a banana? Then it might have greater a-peel!

Unsurprising.

[Bieeanda]

Games Workshop has a history of not only keeping a stranglehold on their IP, but also doing their damnedest to control resellers as well. If there were a way to make miniatures self-destruct on contact with non-GW paint or scratch-built gribblies, you can bet that they'd implement it without blinking, and declare that all of the old miniatures are tournament-illegal. The idea that they might have to trust another outfit, even one so tiny as a bunch of hard-core fans, is utterly anathema to them.

There's MUCH more to this story.

[iknownuttin]

Then it turned out that according to German copyright law, the producers are prevented from signing away some of their own rights, which derailed the deal.

There, you have it. There's a lot more to this story that's not even mentioned in the summary - it's just another /. IP is EVIL story. Just the summary on Wikipedia is kind of confusing. And to honest, I don't blame GW for putting the brakes on the movie. Wikipedia summary of German copyright law. I'm trying to find more English versions, but even then, I'm not a lawyer, let alone a German lawyer.

There's more to it than GW maliciously hurting fans.

Re:There's MUCH more to this story.

[spir0]

GDW. there's a company I've not heard of in years...

This article is about Games Workshop, not Game Designers' Workshop. GDW shut down down in 1996. :)

If anyone wants to know...

[jdb2]

... "damnatus" means condemned. (perfect passive participle of "damno"/"damnare" -- "to condemn") YIAALG Yes I Am A Latin Geek jdb2

E-mail to Games Workshop

[alexgieg]

An e-mail I just sent to Games Workshop Customer Service:

Dear Sir,

Over the last months, since I discovered about the Warhammer 40,000 franchise, I had read many positive reviews on what seems to be a really nice fictional universe with some pretty good games based on it.

However, after reading today's Slashdot article (link below) on how Games Workshop is bullying the producers of a German fan movie based on the Warhammer 40,000 universe, I must confess your misguided approach to the situation caused my interest to drop into nothingness.

Link to the Slashdot article:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/11/ 1536240
(I advise you to read both the article and the community comments below it.)

Thus, I'm sad to inform you that, effective today, I'm not only utterly uninterested on your games, but actively boycotting each, every and all products based on each, every and all pieces of Games Workshop intellectual property. I'm also advising all my contacts (those who play games and video-games, and those who read fantasy and sci-fi to do the same.

The moment you drop your bullying tactics towards fans is the moment I'll think about becoming one. Before that, sorry, but it's too risky.

In the meantime, I hope you take the backlash on your decision wisely, for your PR and legal departments certainly don't seem to understand how the fan/producers relationship is developed and maintained in the new world of 21st century Internet. The geometric progression you'll experience on this matter in the following days will surely be instructive, provided your management shows some willingness to learn from it.

Farewell, and good luck.

Sincerely,

Alexander Gieg
Sao Paulo, Brazil

Re:E-mail to Games Workshop

[alexgieg]

...and then you woke up.

Lol! :D

But the point is that geography matters. They do something nasty to some guys on Germany, and all of a sudden not only a obscure groups of German fans is pissed, but people all over the world start complaining. If that doesn't cause at least a "What the Hell!?" reaction in them, I think nothing (short of actual bankruptcy) ever will.

In any case, Brazil is in fact one of the main worldwide consumers of RPG-related goods. We have widely deployed pen-and-paper monthly magazines on the subject that are running uninterrupted for over a decade, the most important titles are translated and available for sale in the big book shops, and all the time there are RPG events happening in lots of cities. It's not a small market by any means, even though tabletop miniatures themselves are, as far as I know, just a small subset of it.

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Re:A Lesson Learned

[EikeHein]

One thing they (Games Workship) did do, however, was promote the movie project in their own official magazine publication, the "White Dwarf". While not being a written permission, it does serve to illustrate how hypocritical GW's turn-around is on this one.

seems like bad publicity

[jollyreaper]

On one hand, I know the law-weasels need to defend the IP to prevent someone else from coming along later and saying they have a right to it since nobody else was speaking up for it. It is an unpleasant but necessary bit of stewardship. On the other hand, ham-fisted and draconian enforcement will cause more harm than good. Why not have the fan filmmakers sign an official licensing agreement and just set the cost as something nominal like $1? GW can then show that the IP was defended, the movie was legally produced and distributed, and thus IP is defended and the realm is secure?

Obnoxious....

[UncleTogie]

...and after finding the link to their number, 1-800-394-4263, at their Contact Page, I called to get their take on this. I asked why they'd choose to alienate their fan base like this, and was told "to protect our IP". I asked just what the rationale was for this decision, and the response once again was "to protect our IP." I asked who made the decision, and the CS rep wouldn't say, just restating that it was their IP. "I know," I told them, "but using Star Trek as an example, Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning was lovingly made by fans of ST and Bab5 as a nice spoof. They weren't sued; they were encouraged." The rep once again quietly parroted "but it's OUR IP...", and I gave up.

I'm not selling any of their material to make my money back, either. At this point, my choice is simply to burn it/melt it all down before someone else gets the infamous "FanBoi Bitchslap"....

Re:Ahem.

[Anonymous Coward]

And just think, YOU posted here. That makes you a wannabe nerd who's not cool enough to even hang out with nerds. So, what now? :P

(think I'll post this anon... the modders are more likely to mark it flamebait than my intended funny. ;-) -- but just in case, a pre-emptive *shakes fist* if it gets modded up. hehe)

I'd consider threatening legal action.

[Fantastic Lad]

If GW gave them the okay and they can prove this, and the people making the film invested time and resources into the project in the belief that they were allowed to, only to have the plug yanked, then that puts them in a position to sue for their time and money.

It seems ridiculous to even suggest that one should fight with the very group that inspired them, though. The whole world-wide hoopola over intellectual property we're investing so much time and anxiety into these days is totally nuts. --I've talked to teachers who tell their kids not to copy pictures out of books because it's copyright infringement. How crazy is that?

Of course, I also find it interesting to note that War Hammer is all about hyper-competitiveness, focusing every last atom of one's soul upon the annihilation of your opponents. With that kind of crazy-selfish thinking, is it any wonder GW is acting this way? "I AM THE KING OF THE HILL. MINE! ALL MINE! NOW, DIE!!!"

You don't see the Harry Potter franchise trying to stomp out fan fics. Or who knows? Maybe you do. The world is crazy enough.

-FL

Re:For those who don't know...

[Control Group]

Heh. If only I could go back in time... ...you would tell WotC to not completely ruin their hojillion-dollar game by flooding the market with expansions every couple months, steadily increasing the power/cost ratio of all their cards, regularly invalidating old (valuable!) cards, and engaging in general asshattery? Or that there's no legitimate place in tabletop RPG for version "3.5" of anything?

'Cos that would be pretty nice of you.

Decided to churn their audience a few years ago

[alexhmit01]

I've played GW games on and off over the years, more off then on, but every once in a while someone gets me into it. They decided to bring their GW Stores to the US, which decimated game stores that used to sell GW stuff, not because of competition, but because GW would play games with events, etc.

They also realized that their old-time base was mostly using their older miniatures, just updating rule books and adding a few neat elements. Their third edition tried to force changes by making the troops more powerful than the specialists, to encourage more purchases as well.

They found that with their game stores, they were able to bring in teenagers with disposable income, but the other gamers didn't want to play with teenagers... makes sense, if you're in your 30s and 40s and have kids at home, your hanging out with the guys night is less fun if there are 14 and 15 year olds there.

They found that getting teenagers into the game, who would drop money then disappear when they got older gave them a constant supply of people buying miniatures. The guy playing the same Imperial Guard army for 10 years doesn't generate that much revenue.

They took a very anti-fan approach, and while it gave them a bump in sales, they have become one of the companies hated by gamers... including those that play their games.

Re:Ahem.

[MS-06FZ]

Nerds. And news for us! And stuff that matters!

Typical GW.

[Nim82]

I really am not surprised by this, I used to be quite a fan of GW products ~13 years ago. At the time they were quite cheap and you could collect armies relatively easily, they had a greater range too (I collected EPIC mostly). Then slowly but surely they began to ramp up the prices, first they made all £3.99 blisters £4 (not a big deal), then every couple of months £4 would change into £5 into £6. They began dropping gaming systems they couldn't market easily, EPIC got the chop - they replaced it with a LOTR themed Warhammer to tie in with the movies. Even the official rag White Dwarf has changed from a hobby magazine into an overpriced catalogue.

When I first started they would let you play with custom armies in-store, if you had the odd model from another dev they didn't care, if you didn't have a Terminator with a Flamer they would let you use a normal one and put a counter by it. Nowadays the staff are nazi's, they wont let you play with a badly painted army, they wont let you use other miniatures in your army, you have to have the proper model for everything (unless it's a custom conversion using their gear). They wont even let you play their old games there anymore. The higher ups only want people to see in-store what they can buy, in-store gaming is now product placement, using the unpaid kids who game there these days.

Since GW floated they have tried to screw everyone over, and a few of their big name developers walked (unsurprisingly). They are now in a catch 22; their steep price has deterred many from pursuing the hobby and they have driven away the vets (who now use Ebay). The result is lower sales, necessitating yet higher unit costs. In the not too distant future I can see them having to bail on miniature gaming altogether, and simply use their IP for video games and literature.

Talking of games - I wonder if this will have an impact on the modding scene? There are an awful lot of WH/40k themed mods, most of which directly compete with the official games (and some tabletop systems). Time will tell I guess...

They really are shooting themselves in the head with this one, utterly retarded given their predicament.

WARMACHINE and HORDES

[LukeCage]

Maybe I'll get modded down for this as off-topic...but I wanted to say it anyway.

Most people think that Games Workshop is the only "real" miniatures game in town. But it's not. There is another really good game out there called WARMACHINE (and it's companion product, HORDES).

WARMACHINE (yes, it's spelled in all caps) is much cheaper to get into. A "battle box" of a commander and two to four "warjacks" (basically a walking locomotive with weapons - and no they don't look as dumb as that sounds) is 50 bucks, or 35 dollars online. And it comes with the rules and unit stats included.

Whenever you buy a unit, you get a card with all the unit stats. You don't have to ever buy a rulebook if you don't want to. And the miniatures look really nice. Just search around and see. The fiction (aka the "fluff") for the game is just as good as Warhammer. For example, one of the nations in WARMACHINE is a Russian-style fascist state that discovered hundreds of magical swords in an ancient tomb buried under one of their cities. The swords are powerful, but unfortunately cursed, and anyone who uses them goes berserk. So what do they do? They chain convicts to the swords and point them at the enemy! That's the same sort of grim pragmatic feel you get in Warhammer.

I suggest anyone who is sick of GW and Warhammer (I sunk 500 bucks into the game and got 200 back, there are literally hundreds of ebay auctions selling these units at a loss because the game is simply a grind and NOT FUN to actually play for most people) but wants to play a fun miniature game give WARMACHINE a look. I got into it and am enjoying it way, way more than Warhammer. It's tons cheaper and just as fun.

Worng wrong wrong

[geekoid]

The can create a licensing saying they own all the rights. Done, nothing given up, and it's only the trademark that's at risk. A risk that is simple to mitigate with a trademark icon.

This is another company that doesn't understand the new way of making money. They no they offer nothing that can't be easily duplicated. Fear of that makes them do stupid crap. I can't wait until the desktop modeling tool get cheaper. I will make copies of several of the warhammer miniatures and mail them to there head quarters. Just to hear the scream.