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Putting Canadian Piracy in Perspective
An anonymous reader writes "Over the past year Slashdot has pointed to many industry claims and governmental pressure over Canada piracy issues. Canadian law prof Michael Geist has produced Putting Canadian 'Piracy' in Perspective, a video that demonstrates how the claims are hugely exaggerated. For example, it shows how despite the MPAA's claim of movie piracy, Canada was the industry's fastest growing market last year. Similarly, while the recording industry says Canada is the world's top P2P country, the data shows that the Canadian music industry is experiencing record gains and that most of the decline from the major labels is due to retail pricing pressures."
Gimmer Yer Loot! If it's not too much trouble! Yarr! Sorry!
the media companies are lying to us.
That's a huge surprise.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
...get in the way of a good story, or accusation in this case.
Yes, the RIAA and MPAA exaggerate just about everything... but that doesn't mean that everything is all roses north of the 49th parallel.
. . . Living the American dream.
If a million people jumped off a cliff, it'd only be a short time until I landed in a nice soft mountain of bodies.
Years ago, I found my sister buying Audio CD-Rs. I asked her why she bought those to burn her music, after all a normal CD wouldn't make a difference and the Audio CD-Rs were more expensive due to the levy of the music industry. Turned out she didn't know that data CDs could be used to copy music. I explained her that the only reason Audio CD-Rs exist is for non-computer burners and that she pays a "tax" by buying those.
The reaction was: Hey, that's cool... because of this tax my pirating is legal
Now aside form how true that statement is, my sister is an actual music lover and now that she is employed, she is in the process of buying every single CD she copied (and liked, of course) in her student years. Did I mention that she's an audio engineer now?
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Finally, we have proof. Ok, not really proof, but here's some data to back up what we've been saying all along. Piracy is not the opposite of a healthy media marketplace. It actually helps to improve the market place. Piracy gives people better access to media that they would otherwise not get to see. They see it, and sometimes buy a legitimate copy. Many times they don't buy a legit copy, but if they never knew about it in the first place, then you can guarantee that they aren't going to buy it.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
three doors down from Sam's either.
Unfortunately I was unable to view the video at work, however it's worth noting for those that may not realize it that even a Canadian 'market' with no growth at all is probably almost 10% larger this year than last, when valued in U.S. dollars, by virtue of the change in exchange rates.
=======
Science -- Sealed, Delivered.
/* No Comment */
It's all RIAA/MPAA-manufactured crap to convince shill politicians to pass pro-MPAA/RIAA laws. Here's a story published in Australia yesterday accusing it of the same thing:
l ike-us/2007/07/11/1183833529685.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-music/pirates-
China has the right idea. Keep a steamroller mothballed, ready to pull out for the bi-annual "Drive over some CDs" Show.
...but I am worried that in 10-20 years my kids would have to sneak across the border to Canada to do "the jobs Canadians will not do," just to escape the excruciating poverty, violence, and corruption that I see growing stronger by the day in this 'Land of the Free' here.
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
Selling media content on little plastic discs is obsolete and as such is a shrinking industry. When the pond gets smaller the fish must ether get smaller or some fish must die. That is just life.
Look what happened when computers with word processing software made typewriters obsolete. Should we have had our governments spend millions to prop up the Smith Coronas and Olivettis and Underwoods and enact legislation to restrict the use and functionality of word processing software, or put a tax on computer software to fund concessions for ailing typewriter companies? Of course not, that's a stupid idea and very backward thinking.
That is why Sam died--the "selling plastic discs with music on them" pond is slowly shrinking and Sam was a big old fish set in his ways. Other fish in the pond like HMV ate too much of Sam's food and Sam starved to death. That's just life. Some of those little fish will live on, eking out a modest existence in a little puddle and other fish will evolve into amphibians and hop into another bigger pond with fresher water.
The thing is, things in Canada ARE very rosy indeed relative to our southern neighbours. Our economy is more robust at the moment and demand for media content is obviously strong enough to support some kind of healthy music industry--it's just going to look different. Yes, Sam was an icon of sorts and it's never nice to see an old friend die...but it happened to other old names like Eaton's and the sky didn't fall.
Don't forget Tower records either.
Face it, Sam's sucked well before the IPod, Napster and the rest became popular.
So this is why most of music releases are being overcompressed to the hilt. Producers are trying to match the Canadian records' gains!
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
The record and movie industry in my view in their attempt to control "all culture" at the same time have basically been shooting themselves in the foot. Im a perfect example, I dont have time to listen to the radio anymore so I download podcasts then listen to them when I get the time. Thhe media companies have restricted music to such a degree on podcasts that I now dont have a clue what the latest music trends are. If your name or brand or your product isnt being hear or seen by the consumers your dead in the water. Im not surprised in any way that P2P downloads increase music sales because often people dont want to take a chance on a unknown band and fork out the inflated price for CD without some pre existing listening time.
I'd been looking for a Tubes album for a couple of weeks and tried HMV and a few other stores. Most of these stores didn't even have a Tubes section, but I could special order only *some* of their discs (surprisingly, the price was only about $13, with a 6 week wait).
Eventually, on a lark, I dropped into a smaller store that I was sure wouldn't have it but I ending up getting what I wanted for seven bucks.
Oops, I figured that I should add this for the younger ones: The Tubes
I thought Canadians were already paying media tax on blank media (cdr, hard drives, etc) to make up for piracy. In that case, you should be able to pirate in Canada. Otherwise, CRIAA is just making money off you for no reason.
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/index.php?option=com_c
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/index.php?option=com_c
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/19/hollywoods_c
I'm glad I RTFA this time around. I'm headed to Vancouver in a week, and I had been wondering what sort of measures I need to take against all these swashbuckling Canucks. Thankfully, it seems the problem is smaller than anticipated. Still, I wonder why the customs agent kept saying "Yarr..." during our phone conversation.
khasim (12/9/06): In a blind taste test, more people preferred Coke over the Pepsi that I had previously pissed in.
Also the current crop of Canadian musical talent/popularity (not necessarily the same thing) is higher than it has been at any time since Rush, Loverboy, and Gordon Lightfoot stopped making records (at least south of the border, I don't know what is going on North of it, other than everyone likes The Tragically Hip and Sloan).
Some bands that have taken off in the past few years include, but are not limited by (mostly of the "indie" variety, and in SF will sell out at least a 1000 seat venue)....
On top of that there are another slew of bands quite popular up there, (they can actually make a living playing music) that rarely make it down here.
Competition from online sales is not a piracy issue you cretin.
- London/dp/B00004YTY2
Absolutely true. The prices for music has continued to skyrocket in spite of competition for the entertainment dollar.
I graduated HS in 1975. I bought a few records, but very few because they were expensive. There are many things
to spend entertainment dollars on now besides a few records (CD's now) that didn't exist then. I do spend my money on these items instead of CD's.
1 Internet access
2 DVD's Sometimes 4 for $20!
3 Games, Game PC's & Upgrades E6700 Core 2 Duo Woo Hoo
4 High priced gas from 50 cents to 3 dollars
5 Day admission to State and Fedral Parks Now $5/day was free
6 MP3 player No longer stuck with radio station commercials all day
7 Camcorder
8 Digital Camera
9 Photo printer
10 GPS and associated Maps
11 Nice car
Somehow the music industry thinks their slice of my entertainment dollar won't shrink if they raise prices to cover lower sales volume? They added DRM & copy protection to make the product more valuable to me so I'll run
right out and buy a copy?? Yea Right!! DRM and copy protection reduces the value of their product. If I can't
load it on my media server to put on my MP3 player or stream in the house, I can't use their version of the CD. I look elsewhere. DRM increases piracy as the legit product doesn't work.
The only movie I have ever downloaded on P-P is Open Season. That was until I found I could call them and get a replacement DVD for my defective by design one. The extra copy protection is why I went elsewhere to load it on
the media server for the kids.
I was in Wal-Mart a few weeks ago. Just for grins I looked for Phantom of the Opera. I have heard many dirivative works including MIDI files and Karaoke files and decided to check it out. The CD for just the music in the US is over $30.. What are they smoking?
http://www.amazon.com/Phantom-Opera-Original-1986
List price 37.98
In a nutshell, I bought Fiddler on the Roof DVD and Sound of Music DVD and Sister Act DVD instead with about the same money.
The truth shall set you free!
Canada is number 1 for piracy? Funny thing is, a couple of days ago the Australian media ran a story that ranks Britian 1st, Australia 2nd and the US is 3rd in online piracy. And I personally think that none of those countries could hold a candle to some of the eastern countries - china/thailand/etc. Maybe that's a new strategy!
Step 1 : Get the local media of each country to tell the people that they are the worst pirates in the world
Step 2 : ??
Step 3 : Profit!
>Similarly, while the recording industry says Canada is the world's top P2P country
Since I paid those starving musician wages when I purchased blank cd's to backup my photos and my server data I sure as hell will be downloading LEGALY all the music I find worth downloading.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
There is so much better music imo from independant and small labels and musicians that I don't have time to listen to or even consider buying almost anything from the companies that make up the RIAA.
There's an entire internet covering an entire planet of millions of talented musicians who would be ecstatic over the idea of you downloading their mp3s and listening to them completely for free.
I am going to stick with the people *want* me to hear their music.
I hope you choose to download bands/musicians who make it totally clear that they want you to download their work and not "guessing" their intentions. (and claiming that their label forces their hand, that don't count, most of these guys still have a sampling, and are free to record stuff on their own dime for you to download)
We all know from past news stories that, according to RIAA/MPAA, having 4 32-speed CD burners actually equates to having 128 CD burners, so...
1. Population of the USA: 295,734,134 (July 2005 est. (CIA World Factbook)).
2. Population of Canada: 32,805,041 (July 2005 est. (CIA World Factbook)).
3. Ratio of Canadians to Americans: 1:9.015.
Therefore, according to standard RIAA/MPAA accounting practices, every act of Canadian piracy equates to over 9 acts of American piracy.
Now you know why they're so damned worried about Canadian file sharing...
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I'm replying to myself here, but you have no idea how satisfying it is to really like a track, and be able to add that person to your friends list on some site, or write them an email telling them they kick ass and end up getting a grateful reply back.
Not every act can be small, and cost $10 if they have a million fans and put on an expensive and amazing show. An artist's ability to get big like that will grow as their fans and their career grows. This being 'discovered' or 'assembled' by the music industry, then loaned money to make a plastic disc no one wants anymore, and then exploited by a middle man who commodities their music, is fucking bullshit and it needs to stop.
I think we'll see current signed musicians and new independent musicians doing business for themselves in the future, the death of the album and it's often-times side effect filler music, and the death of commodity music pretty soon.
I actually spend a lot of time on sites dedicated to making music, and the musicians there regularly post what they have made, and so do I.
Isn't Canada one of those countries that has extra royalties that consumers pay when buying storage devices, because they can be used to store pirated data? If so, than they really shouldn't be going after software/music/movie pirates, because all Canadians have already paid the "piracy tax." If they're still going to go after them, then they'd better stop charging said royalties, because that's tantamount to fraud.
> For example, it shows how despite the MPAA's claim of movie piracy, Canada was the industry's fastest growing market last year. Similarly, while the recording industry says Canada is the world's top P2P country, the data shows that the Canadian music industry is experiencing record gains...
So how is any of this exclusive of each other? Canada could be experience a quickly growing market and rampant piracy and it could be the top P2P country while enjoying strong sales.
You want to know who isn't running Firefox 2.x? They spell it "definately" and "rediculous".
Unless I get popcorn at my next meeting, that wasn't a "movie".
Canadian piracy in perspective:
Two drunks in a canoe with a pet whisky jack perched on one shoulder, mooning the beach. I think we've proven that we deserve to be taken seriously.
I have the same CD/DVD usage problems, too, with one difference: I'm 70% deaf. I can't use their product in a normal stereo or DVD player at a level *I* can hear without drawing noise complaints from neighbors. However, they've decided for me that I can't watch/hear it on my PC with headphones. Why? Because they're worried Billy Jo Ray Jim Bob Roy is P2Ping his entire collection of bad porn, Rob Schneider movies, and 1970's country-western to the world...
In short: Wal-mart doesn't pat me down every time I leave their store, nor WILL they. RIAA's shooting themselves in the foot by mistakenly assuming I'm a criminal.Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Coo Loo Coo Coo Coo Coo Cooo Cooooo... Me mateys. Avast ye hosers.
--I like turtles...
Enough.
Why does the slashdot community continually support this criminal BS of pirating music and slamming more than the RIAA's tatics, but even their right to protect their intellectual property? When did theft become cool? Oh ya, I remember. From the first time I heard about it, I thought Napster's rampant copying and theft was not cool and revolutionary, but more like the punk ghetto kid who suddenly became popular with everyone - by selling drugs. It's ridiculous.
If you do not think that THEY have a right to keep you from copying and YOU have no right to copy, at least in the U.S. then perhaps you have forgotten that our most fundamental law states that Congress has the authority "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." YOUR interpretation of this is not relevant so I don't want to hear it. Only the Supreme Court's is, and if you have a problem with that, good luck with your constitutional amendment or revolution.
On the other hand, if you are going to advocate socialism, please be consistent. There are a lot of software developers here. How do you expect to make money if everyone copies your work? Are you going to make money on product support? Tell me, how much money have you spent on product support in the last few years?
If you have a problem with the RIAA's tactics, fine. I do not have a problem with the articles and the outrage. But what point is this article trying to make? It's easily refuted with one simple counterexample which is self evident: China.
The slashdot groupthink on this subject is off the charts. A lot of folks here could benefit from a realistic and balanced discussion that properly respects the right of others to protect their property and the right of government to implement public policy according to properly established authority as provided by the people.
I saw a rip of Sicko in a torrent that was in Canadian PAL format. Do Americans rip in PAL?
Competition from iTunes and other online stores is good. We can allow newer forms of distribution to compete on equal terms, and hopefully the free market will spit out an amiable compromise between the two, at the price of some of the retailers.
Competition from illegal downloading is not good. There is no way that any music store (online or not) can compete with free works. If they were legal, and the free market worked as it usually does, eventually a huge majority of people would use it, and only a tiny minority would be able to resist the convenience and price in favour of morals. The artists and record companies would pretty much go broke.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
One would think they'd pay YOU to watch Sister Act...
Some of us, quite sensibly, would wonder why the heck its the government's business that Avril Lavigne is getting less airplay than her corporate backers paid for. (Oh, these grants were supposed to be given to struggling small artists, as opposed to the folks who pay the lobbyists. Right. Sorry about that. OK, why the heck should the government support Working Mothers of Slamdancing Elephants? Its not like we are suffering a market failure of undersupply of music. There is plenty of it out there, for every taste, and we should let prospective producers concentrate on producing rather than concentrating on working the bureacracy to wheedle out extra airtime.)
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Canadian pirates?
Barrett's Privateers?
http://www.geocities.com/~elainedues/lyrics.html
While your point is valid - entertainment dollars are split more ways today than ever, I must disagree with some of you specific examples:
2. Valid when talking about the steady decline of movie goers, but since you are talking about music, I think this likely is a money savings; seeing movies cost people per viewing 30 years ago.
4. On average gasoline prices have not kept pace with inflation
6. Really just a new version of the record player.
8. Film cameras cost more in the long run
11. Might be new to you, but not new to society
While your point is valid - entertainment dollars are split more ways today than ever, I must disagree with some of you specific examples:
2. Valid when talking about the steady decline of movie goers, but since you are talking about music, I think this likely is a money savings; seeing movies cost people per viewing 30 years ago.
4. On average gasoline prices have not kept pace with inflation
6. Really just a new version of the record player.
8. Film cameras cost more in the long run
11. Might be new to you, but not new to society
I grew up in the country. These items are not generalizations. These are specific to me.
2) I got to see an in theatre move about twice a year which is about the same as now. Nothing has changed except I also buy a stack of DVD's since what's on over the air TV is crap.
4) True, but I lived walking distance from work. Now I have a 30 mile commute each way.
6) Instead of 1 record player in the living room shared by the family, we need several with each at about the same price of a record player. In addition we have a couple tape decks, a linear track turntable, and nice sound systems for the cars. It's no longer an AM radio and a record player for the family.
8) Instead of a 8 shot poloroid, a 12 shot point and shoot with roll film, or a 24 or 36 exposure roll for the 35mm, we shoot everything, delete the duds, make prints and send them to friends. Overall the number of prints made remain about the same.
11) Used to drive beaters while single, male, under 25, 30, 35 etc. when reliable transportation wasn't a requirement. My first car cost $600. Insurance about killed me till I paid it off and dropped finance company reqirements for full coverage. Single, Male, Under 20, and out of state is a killer combo to buy full coverage insurance in the 70's. I stuck to beaters for a long time so they didn't need financed and full coverage. A replacement car was cheaper than a year's full coverage insurance.
I'm married now and don't suffer single male status anymore. I can afford full coverage on a nicer car. So I bought a Prius, the first car I spent over $5,000 to purchase. Car payments do cut into the entertainment budget.
The truth shall set you free!
NAFTA does not cover songs, music and TV. (Canada has CRTC - Canada's regulator for telecoms, radio and television services). It protect our culture from the infernal Yankee Influences... RIAA and appearanlty too much prime time American content. Canada can always alter how many foreign shows (and we do) are allowed on our stations /and or during peak periods as well as tegulate sales of foreign content. I do not think the RIAA will get far threatening Canada.
I do not RIAA has not managed to slip anything in the middle of the night past our legislators and it leaves most Canadian citizens alone. I think they have a idea that if they pushed things here the kind of ruling the courts would make and they do not want that example getting around especially given the taxes on blank media.
Her Majesty's Video?
In short: Wal-mart doesn't pat me down every time I leave their store, nor WILL they. RIAA's shooting themselves in the foot by mistakenly assuming I'm a criminal.
Youve never had someone ask to see your reciept as you walk out the door ?
Sure have. Kept walking, as I know I have my receipt....but I'm the kind of guy whom, when asked by a security guard for his ID, responds "May I see your identification as a peace officer of (or for) the state of Texas or any local or federal agency?"
Jus' 'cause the Sheeple buy that sort of treatment doesn't mean the rest of us should.
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Come on! Asking to see your reciept(sic) is not the same as being patted down. Usually (at least when it has happened to me) the person at the door just takes a quick look at the receipt and maybe a quick look through the bag. I have never (at any retail store) had some one actually pat me down prior to allowing me to leave the building. For that matter I have never been patted down before (or after) entering (leaving) a theater. Now you may want to take exception the the original premise that DRM is similar to being patted down but that is another discussion entirely.
and the fools are still in print.
:-)
We can SEE all these #1 ratings, (in localized e-copies of 'print' issues,) all contradicting each other, so we can deduce that we're being fed a load of crap.
And then the **AAs wonder why we don't believe them...
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
There are only 1/10th the number of people in Canada.
That means that there can only be 1/10th the amount of piracy if there is a similar percentage of the population pirating music, movies, etc.
- real hackers don't have sigs -
Come on guys. Stick to logic. People buying movies and music does not represent piracy. Sales can be at all time highs while piracy is at all time highs. Sales growing represents economic prosperity and is a function of the economy. Sales will grow and diminish regardless of the level of piracy.
these nails are fine, but the coffin needs a FINAL nail
In terms of the RIAA and the CD industry it is 16 44100 or fight.
YOUR interpretation of this is not relevant so I don't want to hear it. Only the Supreme Court's is, and if you have a problem with that, good luck with your constitutional amendment or revolution.
You are exactly right - it's already decided. And that is precisely why you are witnessing a "revolution" in this area. Unenforceable laws are MORE dangerous than enforceable ones because they allow for selective enforcement. Just like we are seeing now.
The only way to fight is through civil disobedience -- and that's exactly what you are seeing. No more. No less. It's just a fact that people are NOT willing to pay $17/cd anymore. No matter how hard you legislate that. Methinks you misunderstand what you are seeing here. It's not a case of simple "stealing". There is much much more going on here.
Outdated and more...
I don't know how it was in Toronto, but here in Montreal STRM was also an institution. But the employees always made you feel like some musical imbecile.
After hearing an incredible song on a Blues compilation I asked an employee about not finding the band X in the Blues section (in case it might be in another section).
In several phrases he made me feel like an idiot to look into the Blues section since "everybody knows this is a rock band". He finished his last insult walking away not even pointing me in the right direction.
HMV was barely a street corner away. They got my business from then on and STRM closed 5 or 6 years later.
Getting insulting attitude from a face-tatoed-pierced-ears-bad shirt-makeup wearing guy who hates anyone not wanting punk albums is not a good customer relationship in my book.