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Courts Reject Tech Corporation Bans on Class Action Suits
Frosty Piss writes "Class action waivers included in cell phone companies' contracts with customers are invalid in Washington State because they violate the state's Consumer Protection Act, the state Supreme Court ruled Thursday. Five plaintiffs accused Cingular of overcharging customers between $1 and $40 per month in roaming and hidden charges. Cingular had an arbitration clause that required individual arbitration and prohibited class action litigation or class action arbitration. From the article: 'In another class action-related ruling issued Thursday, the high court unanimously ruled in favor of a couple that filed a class action suit against America Online, Inc., claiming the Internet provider created and charged them for secondary membership accounts that they didn't want.'"
Too many companies nowadays are taking advantage of the vast amount of population that pay money for a service that they don't completely understand. How many people actually know what all of those surcharges on their cellular/telephone/isp bills are for? I hope this ruling occurs eventually in New York as well.
Just a reminder, kids. Just because you put something in a "contract" doesn't make it legal or enforceable. No need to get your panties in a bunch over the fine print in cell phone contracts, EULA's, etc.
I don't respond to AC's.
Interestingly, the Supreme Court of Canada just released a decision that cuts the opposite way. The Court upheld the "binding arbitration" clauses that many companies put in their various contracts and agreements. This essentially shields them from class actions, since disputes have to go to arbitration instead of the courts.
Since the matters involved in these cases actually took place, two provinces (Ontario and Quebec) have passed consumer protection laws (probably similar to Washington's) that protect consumers' ability to sue as a class. More jurisdictions need to step up to the plate and do the same.
There is a spellbook here; eat it? [ynq]
This is not to mention the bad publicity that comes from losing a major class action suit. That's probably where the most harm comes to a company in the long run. In this case the adage that "Any publicity is good publicity" is probably wrong as these are already well known entities. Of course the only "public" that hears about this may only be slashdot, which has the numbers to take down a server, but probably not a Fortune 500.
When the class gets paid in vouchers, the lawyers should be paid in vouchers.
Many contracts limit your ability to sue in a real court. They exist in everything from vehicle purchase contracts to fitness club contracts. The best thing consumers can do is to read the contracts, know their rights, reject contracts where such provisions can't be removed and tell the salespeople why this isn't acceptable.
Any business that forces a customer into binding arbitration in a contract can't be trusted.
So, if you sign a cell phone contract, with a 14 day return policy, and on day 20 you get your bill and discover that they've overcharged you, you are a coward? Your options are basically:
The game is tilted against the consumer in these scenarios. And I'm glad this ruling came down the way it did. It's not right that a contract can force you to give up your legal right to seek relief in court. And before any wise-ass comes back with "then don't sign it", try living with a cell phone, credit card, phone service, bank account, etc, etc, etc. They are all doing it!
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Class action lawsuits is one way to level the playing field and make companies care about their consumers by going after the only thing they understand: their bottom lines.
After all, the companies have massive legal departments, paid 24/7 access to the Congress with the ability to (re)write the laws, they can drag out even the most solidly grounded lawsuits forever through the appeals process and wait for the victim to go bankrupt with all those legal and court fees. Any individual claims that do get through all the way are likely to be small, and will not impact the profit margins at all.
Consequently, limiting class-action suits, along with court-awarded damages and restitution is a horrible idea; corporations would be able to literally kill thousands and still turn a profit!
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
If I'm screwed out of a lot of money, I'd want compensation, but if I only have a small loss, I'm mostly interested in the company not benefitting from screwing me over. Having them stop is more important to me for those situations. But the time and cost to myself is too high for an individual.
If the lawyer can shoulder the time and cost, I don't mind them getting a big payout, I wouldn't hope to get much back if I only lost like 50 bucks to the corporation. Hopefully they'll change their policy and that would still help me at least.
On the one hand, class actions give the consumers the opportunity to build up enough clout to get noticed and possibly get the corp to change its behavior. Plaintiffs get added to the suit more or less automatically (you've seen those mailers that notify you that you're involved...). But the consumer rarely (in my experience) gets any real remuneration as a result. In this particular Cingular case, the plaintiffs could have added just about anybody who used their service during the specified period resulting in many thousands of plaintiffs in the class action. Cingular would probably have to pay out a few dollars per plaintiff in the form of future credits or something like that, plus legal fees. Of course, it may also allow them to weasel their way out of paying those who are no longer customers and various other bits of chicanery. But, by the nature of the class action, the handful of initial plaintiffs are able to leverage themselves into a position of reasonably significant power and actually get something done. (note that I haven't read the Cingular case, and my inferences above are based on my past experiences with class actions).
On the other hand (bet you forgot about that first hand up there!) according the TFA, Cingular is willing to pay out the state's defined small-claims amount _or more_ in individual arbitration. That's $4,000 in Washington state. But they're banking on the idea that only a handful of individuals would bother. However, if the customers were actually pro-active about it and all those who were eligible for the class action took the initiative and entered arbitration for something that was provably wrong on the part of the corp, then the individual plaintiffs stand to gain significantly more on an individual basis while the corpp stand to lose significantly more.
I would like to see some consumer advocacy group take a different approach in cases like these. I'd like to see them run a couple test arbitrations from their pool of original plaintiffs. If they are successful, use the information gathered as a result of this to assist additional plaintiffs in pursuing the same arbitration. They could put together packages of "how-to arbitrate the cingular over-charging thing" and send them to anyone who would have been eligible for the class action in the first place. Then you'd possibly see (provided the rewards were high enough) a significant number of well-armed plaintiffs entering arbitration at the same time. THat would likely have a real affect on a large corp. Nothing like having the legal dept suddenly swamped with massive number of arbitrations and then finding lots of well informed and prepared plaintiffs across the table from them. They may find themselves in a situation where they are _asking_ for a class action in violation of their own contract. That would be nice.
man, I feel like mold.
(The same goes for holiday gift certificates.)
Of course not. UK citizens don't have rights to sign away *ducks and covers*
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Cool, I want to be cell-phone only so I don't have to deal with two numbers. Since it's my primary line, find me a pre-paid plan that's competitive. Counting nights and weekends I use about 2,500 - 3,000 minutes a month. On a post-paid plan of $39.99 (1k peak minutes/unlim n&w on T-Mobile) that's $0.013 a min for 3,000 minutes. Find me a pre-paid plan that's competitive with that.
Oh, that's right, you can't, because the pre-paid offerings are purposefully crippled to make them useless for anything but light use.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
The biggest complaint about the binding arbitration nonsense is that the company making the contract selects who will do the arbitration, and if they lose too many cases, fire them.
In essence, you have to take up the complaint you have with the company with the company itself, and they're hardly unbiased. And I'm sure they would require that the arbitrations happen on their time table, one on one only, no lawyers allowed on the customer's side.
I feel like death on a soda cracker.
Actions like this show that the Great Holy Infallible Markets (TM) usually decide that eliminating your rights and stepping all over you generate the most profits. Especially if they can collude and set "industry standard" business practices. In fact, the few consumer protection laws that do exist are one of the few reasons that we really aren't a Corporate Dictatorship yet.
I feel like death on a soda cracker.
Yeah...because all those class action lawsuits that SBC faced and lost over various sheisty practices over their early DSL offerings did SOOO much to help us all out get honest deals on DSL from AT&T now that they have all been allowed to remerge together. The people who "won" got all of a few bucks in a check that came almost a year later... I got more bang for my buck just griping at them up the chain for a few hours until I was eventually credited 6 months free DSL for their various screwups. Course it was 6 months of free crappy DSL that still didn't meet what I was promised, but at least it was free and lasted long enough for new competitors that weren't total screwups to enter the market. I have not had Telco direct provided DSL in 8 years because of that.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
I feel like death on a soda cracker.
3000 minutes a month? WTF? You need to find more efficient ways to communicate
My grandpa uses 0 minutes per month, man that guy is really efficient!
Introduce your friends/coworkers to email, forums, wikis, SMS, etc
My daughter uses SMS and is much more efficient than me because I use voice, here is an example of a speed comparison:
Me speaking on cell phone to daughter: "I will pick you up in 10 minutes for soccer practice"
Daughter texting: OK
As you can see texting is clearly faster, now let's try a wiki example:
Me speaking on cell phone to co-worker: "To boot the server, just flip the big red switch"
Co-worker using wiki: {1 mouse click on hyperlink to "Booting the Server"}
Again, no comparison. Let's make sure a forum is more efficient also:
Me speaking on cell phone to friend: "Man I wish I knew if Sony had cut the price of the PS3, I really think I would buy one if they did, unfortunately I don't know and neither do you because we're both having this conversation on this dang cell phone!"
Friend reading slashdot: "Sony Drops PS3 Price"
It's pretty clear, the cell phone is probably one of the less efficient tools in our arsenal.
Tune in next week for another in depth efficiency article titled "The Wheel - What Went Wrong?"
Why are you making plans to pick her up for soccer practice 10 minutes ahead of time instead of a day or a week? When I had after school or weekend activities as a child I knew which parent would be taking me, and when, at least a few days in advance.
Lets check and see how that would work:
As I pick up daughter for soccer, she asks: "You're late, why didn't you call?"
Me: "Traffic was bad but Sparr0 didn't want me to use my cell to make a voice call, so I used my cell and text'd my status to the Soccer Parents forum, I hoped you might have seen it there."
Daughter: "I don't go to that forum"
Me: "Dang"
Daughter: "Who's Sparr0?"
Me: "He's a poster on slashdot, seems to know all situations in which a cell phone might be used, turns out they just aren't efficient. Anyway, instead of me just telling you, why don't you check the the wiki I setup, it should explain everything."