Psychology, Design and Economics of Slot-Machines

6 writes "Technology isn't just about design and hardware; sometimes it's about psychology, politics, sociology, and economics. The website of Stanford design prof Michael Shanks is hosting a student project by William Choi and Antoine Sindhu, a fascinating online course about slot machines. From the site: 'Much research has been devoted to studying gambling behavior from various points of view, including the psychological, social, economic, and political bases and implications of gambling ... [just the same,] focusing on slot machines reveals and inspires the study of many sociological issues that have come to express themselves specifically and notably on these machines. Here, we examine a number of these issues, attempting to link slot machines to them in an effort to better understand and explain them.'"

Comments

Variable Ratio Conditioning

[anagama]

If you give a rat a bit of food every time it presses a bar (or on every n presses) -- it'll learn to press the bar the requisite number of times when it is hungry. If you provide a food nugget on a varying number of presses, e.g., 1 press=win, 3 presses=win, 10 presses=win, 4 presses=win -- it'll punch the bar all day.

At least, that's how I recall a psych prof of mine from college explaining why slot machines were so profitable.

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[reset_button]

This is discussed in the article. It's an experiment by B.F. Skinner, called an operant conditioning chamber.

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[ScrewMaster]

Known colloquially as a "Skinner Box".

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[Alwin Henseler]

You really need a psych prof to teach you that? Let's just think about it: A rat is an animal with a fairly limited number of interests, say: survive (eat/drink/not get killed) and reproduce. Maybe there are more, but it's significant less than humans, that also enjoy architecture, reading Harry Potter, play videogames, skydiving, or watch Oprah. Due to a limited number of interests, I'd say each of those is important to a rat. Finding food is important, finding another rat to mate with is important.

Now couple one of those important interests (food/survival) to a required action: give the rat some food if it presses a bar, let it starve otherwise. I'm sure the rat will try to survive hard enough to find out that it needs to press a bar. Now make it harder: have it press an X number of times before giving it food. I'm sure the rat's memory is good enough to remember that pressing once is not enough. Force of habit will make it easier for the rat: hang around, be bored until hungry, press bar until food comes, repeat until your keeper comes up with a new plan ;-(

Now it's easy to see what happens if you increase X, and what is the upper limit: if you increase X, the rat will have to press the bar more often to get the same amount of food, and thus spend more time on it. The upper limit: spend all its waking hours pressing the bar, until finally, at the end of a long work day, some food comes, barely enough to make it through the next round. Having X below that is a waste of resources from the rat's keeper/'master'/abuser, a higher X and the rat dies from exhaustion. All this also known as: slave labour.

Personally, I'd go for some more interesting experiments. Like, provide a number of different options, and see what the rat prefers, or what it considers easier. Vary the difficulty of tasks, to find out what complexity the rat's brain can manage. But then again, I'm not into abusing rats for such purposes (enough folks are doing that already), and plain humans are almost as easy subjects: give them some (whatever, be creative) incentive, and see if they bite.

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing the point completely. And yes - it was/is a pretty significant finding in behavioral research.

If you pay out every time - or consistently pay out after a reasonable number of pushes the rat figures that out, pushes the bar until he's eaten enough, then goes on his way until he's hungry again.

However - if you make the payout random, the rat will push the button all day long. Even after he's had enough to eat. Nothing like the behavior you described.

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[kestasjk]

If you give a rat a bit of food every time it presses a bar (or on every n presses) -- it'll learn to press the bar the requisite number of times when it is hungry. If you provide a food nugget on a varying number of presses, e.g., 1 press=win, 3 presses=win, 10 presses=win, 4 presses=win -- it'll punch the bar all day.

At least, that's how I recall a psych prof of mine from college explaining why slot machines were so profitable. Hmm, does that really explain it though? If the rat had to give up a bit of food whenever it pressed the bar maybe it would behave differently, and this is more similar to what slot machines do.

If it was just a matter of pulling the lever enough times, and it didn't cost anything, then of course people would sit there all day pulling the lever.

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[chimpo13]

A rat is an animal with a fairly limited number of interests, say: survive (eat/drink/not get killed) and reproduce.

That's not true at all. You are assuming rats only live to survive and reproduce in a way that's different from people. People use architecture and books as a way to survive and reproduce. Architecture can be looked at the same way as peacock feathers -- chicks put out to people who build (or live) neat buildings. By Whatshername the author of Harry Potter, by writing books, she's increased her chance of finding a good mate.

People are animals and our interests interest us more than rat interest. I'm sure rats have tastes that increase their ability to mate, the same way people do. Rats push bars for food to increase their reproductive ability. People push bars for money for the same -- to get laid.

I hope that makes sense.

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[KDR_11k]

Or, in some circles, as an MMORPG.

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[johnny cashed]

You really need a psych prof to teach you that?

You are so correct. I learned this from my girlfriend. Cherry dribbling indeed!

Re:Variable Ratio Conditioning

[fbjon]

And I push the space bar to read slashdot. How does this increase my reproductive ability again?

Cherry Dribbling

[klenwell]

I read a New York Times article on this subject a while back -- it was about professional slot machine designers. It referred to an insidious concept with the charming title, "cherry dribbling." Basically, it means figuring out the ratio of payouts to losses that defines the optimal rate to pick a slot-machine player's pocket. Pay out too much and obviously the slot-machine owner will lose. Pay out too little and people begin to feel like suckers and stop playing. Get it just right -- super happy profit!

Add a lot of bells and whistles to amuse people while they're getting fleeced and it's almost like they're enjoying it. (But most importantly, make sure that when they put a $1 in you credit them only $1.)

I'd have to look up the article to find what the ratio was, but the margin was surprisingly slim.

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[WhatHappenedToTanith]

Most slot machines run in this fashion utilising simple Fixed Odds Betting. Most (all?) casino table games use the same principle with varying rates of odds. Blackjack with 1 deck is normally the highest payout at about 98% IIRC. Slots hover around 90% and some thing like bingo can go as low as 80% with people still playing happily. There are laws that govern payout percentages (Nevada is something like 75% IIRC). In the UK, slot machines do not always run this way as there are laws in place (recently updated) which require the slot machines to run more like a scratchcard does, with a guaranteed win every X plays, so you could watch people playing and then know that there is a win due soon and step in to play and win :)

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[servognome]

Basically, it means figuring out the ratio of payouts to losses that defines the optimal rate to pick a slot-machine player's pocket. Pay out too much and obviously the slot-machine owner will lose. Pay out too little and people begin to feel like suckers and stop playing. Get it just right -- super happy profit!

It's even more complex than that, designers need to understand HOW best to make individual payouts to maximize profits. Make the payouts too big and people will become disinterested from losing too much, make the payouts too small and the game will be ignored because there is not chance to "hit the big one." With the right mix a slot machine can net money even when the customer has the advantage. For example you could have a machine with 102% payout, yet it will net the slot machine owner money because the house has the advantage of deeper pockets to take advantage of streaks. People will keep playing their winnings until they are out of cash or up by "enough;" A player may be hot and up 50% at one point, but because it isn't enough for them to feel like they beat the house, they keep playing until they run into a cold streak and run out of cash.

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[Mprx]

The house isn't playing against an individual customer, it's playing against all the customers. The only way they can make money with >100% payout is by using it as a loss leader to attract them to worse paying gambling.

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[sholden]

Some slot machines (well usually video poker machines, since playing those perfectly isn't so straightforward) have payouts slightly above 100%, so the casino can advertise their existance. But they won't have many and they'll be hidden in a corner somewhere mixed in with less than 100% machines and you need to decode the payout table to determine which is which.

Streaks are irrelevant from the casino point of view, each game is independant that one player goes broke and hence stops playing due to a bad streak doesn't matter because another player will step up to play the machine anyway.

Of course if you do happen to go on winning streak they'll just 86 you, because casiono's are run by retarded monkeys: http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007/06/fall-o f-roman-empire.html

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[Knave75]

With the right mix a slot machine can net money even when the customer has the advantage. For example you could have a machine with 102% payout, yet it will net the slot machine owner money because the house has the advantage of deeper pockets to take advantage of streaks.

By your logic, a billionaire playing a slot that gives 98% payout would eventually come out ahead.

Do you work for the casinos? I will not be taken in by your deceitful ways!

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[servognome]

Streaks are irrelevant from the casino point of view, each game is independant that one player goes broke and hence stops playing due to a bad streak doesn't matter because another player will step up to play the machine anyway.

The payout % is intended to be misleading, as it merely represents the theoretical payout of the machine. Machines have a finite lifespan, so there is deviation from the theoretical payout %.

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[servognome]

By your logic, a billionaire playing a slot that gives 98% payout would eventually come out ahead.

Depending on how the game is setup, the billionare could at some point be ahead. If it's quarter slots no, if it's $1M a pull, possibly. That statistics work in the long run, and often the games are setup so the machines will be retired before they achieve their theoretical payout.

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[Knave75]

If it's quarter slots no, if it's $1M a pull, possibly. That statistics work in the long run, and often the games are setup so the machines will be retired before they achieve their theoretical payout.

What I should have said in the grandparent post was that a billionaire playing slots that had a payout of 98% would inevitably lose money if he played long enough. This was as opposed to the comment that claimed that a "bigger bankroll" could somehow be used to improve the probability of winning. Obviously, one pull of the slot machine could easily be a winner, so there is no point in talking about short-term results. Now, however, what do you mean by "games are set up so that they will be retired before they achieve their theoretical outputs". Are you saying that there are slot machines out there that pay more than 100%, but, by taking off the casino early, we somehow lower the amount that they pay out such that it falls below the theoretical payout?

That would not work of course, if you took a group of 2000 machines with a 102% payout, and removed them from the casino after 5 months (or whatever arbitrary time that is before the machine achieves its theoretical results), some machines will have paid out more than 102%, while other will have paid out less. Overall, the aggregate amount that the machines underpaid would probably be very close to that which was overpaid.

As you said, statistics work in the long run, and casinos only think in the long run. A casino would never hope to make a profit from a machine that gave a 102% payout, no matter how long that machine was in service.

Re:Cherry Dribbling

[servognome]

What I should have said in the grandparent post was that a billionaire playing slots that had a payout of 98% would inevitably lose money if he played long enough. This was as opposed to the comment that claimed that a "bigger bankroll" could somehow be used to improve the probability of winning

The bigger bankroll helps you win as it dictates how much statistical deviation you can absorb to the negative.

That would not work of course, if you took a group of 2000 machines with a 102% payout, and removed them from the casino after 5 months (or whatever arbitrary time that is before the machine achieves its theoretical results), some machines will have paid out more than 102%, while other will have paid out less. Overall, the aggregate amount that the machines underpaid would probably be very close to that which was overpaid.

That's where it depends on how the machines are setup. For example a 100% machine with a Jackpot of $1M on a quarters machine will have a 1:4M odds. If only a total of 25k games are played on the machine then statistically the machine should not have reached the 100% payout. Even with 10 machines, the likelihood is that over the course of the 250k games none will have paid out the $1M.
Also, Casinos will often purchase insurance to mitigate risk exposure on jackpots.

This article is not based on facts.

[Anonymous Coward]

[i]
Just like a real slot machine, we found that the online simulator had a very high frequency of "near misses." Nearly every one in four reel spins had two of the same symbol, and the third matching symbol just slightly off on third reel. This is precisely the technique used in real slot machines to keep people addicted--it creates the illusion that you have "almost" won. In addition, small payouts happened with surprising frequency, replenishing the pool of available money and keeping the game dynamic.
[/i]

I work for a company that makes video and mechanical slot machines. This quote is just plain wrong. In fact, intentionally displaying "near misses" is illegal in pretty much every single gaming jurisdiction. It is simply the perception by the player.

Additionally, a game with many small payouts is normal! Games that pay out many small amounts and rarely a large amount are known in the industry as "bleeders." However, it isn't an intentional scheme that is devised to separate the player from his money. There is a concept of machine "volatility" -- the math for a set of reel strips can be devised to be more or less volatile. Less volatile means frequent small payouts and very very infrequent large payouts. More volatile means there aren't a lot of small payouts, but a large payout is a little bit more likely than on a less volatile game. In either case, the machine hold percentages can be the same (or whatever the casino configures -- as long as it is legal in that particular jurisdiction. In my experience, most places will configure paytables with the lowest legal payout percentage in that particular jurisdiction -- especially if a game is new on the floor.)

Re:This article is not based on facts.

[Graff]

In fact, intentionally displaying "near misses" is illegal in pretty much every single gaming jurisdiction. Actually there is a very easy way of legally doing this. You set up the wheels so that certain wheels have more of some symbols than others.

Suppose there are 3 wheels and 3 symbols - a, b, and c. The wheels have the symbols in the following amounts:
wheel 1: a a b c c
wheel 2: a a b b c
wheel 3: a b b c c

In other words, two wheels have two copies of symbol "a" and one wheel has one copy of symbol "a". The same goes for the other symbols.

You now have a much greater chance of getting 2 of any symbol than you do of getting all 3. This is just a simple example, there are many more ways of setting up the wheels so that you get a large amount of "near misses" and are goaded into playing the machine more. It's not illegal to set up the wheels in this manner, what is illegal is pre-deciding the result of a random spin of the wheels. This kind of setup is just obfuscating the chances of getting a certain layout of symbols.

Re:This article is not based on facts.

[Graff]

I think grandparent post is talking about the machine doing something shonky like:
1. Generate a random number.
2. Convert that random number to a game outcome.
3. If outcome is 'player loses', display a non-paying 'near miss' on the lines played, or even a paying 'near miss' on unplayed lines. Probably but I wanted to point out that there are legal ways of being intentionally misleading when it comes to slot machines. Yes the law is says that you can't do the steps you outlined but there are many ways of still misleading the slot machine player that don't fall under the law.

The method I described is only one of many ways that a slot machine manufacturer could influence a player in a way that favors the casino. An example of another way of being misleading is to have additional symbols that closely resemble the winning ones. Then when these symbols come up you are tricked into getting the initial elation of winning a big prize. If these misleading symbols also payout for small prizes then you are further rewarded for playing and are more likely to continue to play. These small wins can be tailored to have a win rate which is less than the loss rate but only a careful player would ever notice this fact.

The article is a bit hamfisted with some of the information and conclusions it presents but one thing definitely rings true - the casino tailors the environment to best work on the psychology of the players in order to get them to spend more money and get addicted to gambling. This can be seen in every aspect of the casino environment, from the structure of the games to the ancillary entertainment provided by the casino to the food and the comps systems used.

The key to countering this is to make all your decisions before you enter that environment. Decide how long you are going to stay, how much money you are willing to lose, what exactly you are going to do at the casino, and so on. Also take a good, hard look at the reason WHY you are going to the casino in the first place and whether there is someplace else less risky that would satisfy that reason. If it is for entertainment maybe you would be better off going to dinner and a movie for the price of $50 per person rather than the casino for the price of $200 per person.

There's nothing wrong with casinos, what's wrong is going to them blindly and randomly and getting addicted to the "thrill" of the casino experience. It's like any other activity - moderation is good, excess is bad.

Re:This article is not based on facts.

[MegaFur]

Mr. AC, I think you have done a very good job of brainwashing yourself. A different child post demonstrates how a slot can be designed to frequently display 2 of 4 or maybe even 3 of four matching symbols legally. Whether this is thought of as a "near miss" or not depends on point of view of course, but if you think the average slot player will think of it as anything *other* than a near miss, then you are at least as deceived in your perception as the player is in theirs.

And the article didn't say it was abnormal for a machine to have frequent small payouts--the article merely pointed out how, once again, having machines give frequent small payouts plays neatly into the casino's "hand".

The lesson is simple. You really want to win at gambling? Ok. Then what you do is, you go *buy* yourself a casino and run it. There. Problem solved.

Re:This article is not based on facts.

[stonecypher]

Just like a real slot machine, we found that the online simulator had a very high frequency of "near misses."

I work for a company that makes video and mechanical slot machines. This quote is just plain wrong. In fact, intentionally displaying "near misses" is illegal in pretty much every single gaming jurisdiction.

... no, what's illegal is rigging the machine to control the distribution of its end results. Carefully arranging the faces on the dials such that nearly every wheel combination walks across an almost-win on its way to stopping is actually quite easy - it's a simple mathematical distribution when you remember that the wheels aren't moving at the same speed.

The problem with talking to professionals is that if you say something that's similar to something illegal, they assume that's what you mean, and tell you it's not possible. Believe it or not, some people do understand that you can't rig gaming machines. That does *not* mean that you can't build the gaming machines to have all of the perceptually important parts of a rigged machine.

it creates the illusion that you have "almost" won.

It is simply the perception by the player.

Yes, that's what he said.

Re:This article is not based on facts.

[inKubus]

The article reads like a lit review. Most of the information is hearsay, and the cited articles are sensationalist at best. The business is pretty simple. You set up a machine and it takes 99 of every 100 bucks put into it. Then you leave it on all year and put it into a confortable setting. Add about 20,000 more around it and then surround that with anything you could possibly need while on a gambling binge (food, drink, bathroom, etc.) People come to hopefully luck out and be the "right" person who happens to get the money, just like in a lottery. Unfortunately, some people start to believe in the machine, when really it's pure chance. And they lose their money. They keep putting money in because they don't understand the chances, the fact that they are at a disadvantage. And the fact that if you have a bad streak, just like a good streak, you will lose a lot in a short amount of time.

However, the bottom line is that the casino can't win TOO much or people will get too discouraged and won't keep playing. The business is very tightly regulated however. There are huge reports of statistics and stuff they have to submit to a gaming commission. In fact, casinos of a certain size have gaming commission people on hand at all times. And nowadays they don't even use hard money any more (they use a barcoded ticket to pay out). It's not really a mob thing anymore. These are legitimate businesses with a legitimate clientele (over 50 MILLION visitors came to Las Vegas in 2006). The average monthly win for casinos statewide in Nevada is over a billion dollars, and those earnings are taxed. In fact, Nevada does not need to have a state income tax because of all the gaming revenue.

There are always going to be people who take things too far. And it's very easy to do. Often problem gamblers are lonely people who have suffered some sort of loss in their lives and gambling is an escape. But the vast majority of gamblers, just like the vast majority of people who drink alcohol, know their limits and act accordingly while still managing to stay entertained. Be smart people, learn to enjoy losing.

By the way, I used to work for a large Las Vegas casino and now I work for a addiction rehab center ;)

This just in....

[poetmatt]

slot machines are designed to take your money. News at 5!

Re:This just in....

[Joe The Dragon]

and when they mess up over pay you and you don't give it back may have to go to jail!
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/20/19 42220
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070719/ap_on_fe_st/ge nerous_slot_machine

Oh, it's a student project

[Animats]

It's a student project, and it shows. The article is superficial. The first two sources listed are Wikipedia and HowStuffWorks. There's a page on the Simpsons. You get the general idea.

Considerable work has been done on gambling psychology, but they didn't find it. There's an online Journal of Gambling Issues, with papers like Slot machine structural characteristics: Distorted player views of payback percentages. There's an annual trade show, Global Gaming Expo, and even an institute of higher learning devoted to the subject, the International Gaming Institute, part of (inevitably) the University of Las Vegas.

Their "experimental work" consisted of playing "freeslots.com". They didn't even notice that the "free slots" programs are set to have an expectation greater than zero when played in free mode. In fact, it's quite difficult to lose at "freeslots".

Industry analysis of player psychology has gone way beyond the stuff mentioned in this student paper. The big breakthrough was when slot machines started accepting player affinity cards. Today's casinos have the player's entire history, at the per-click level, on file, and considerable effort goes into mining that data. Some studies have compared what players have thought they won versus the casino's history of their track record. Many players don't even know that they're losing, let alone how much.

If you want to read about this subject, start with Super Casino, an 1999 inside look at some major Las Vegas properties.

Re:Oh, it's a student project

[bberens]

According to wikipedia, Wikipedia is never wrong, so it must be true!

Re:Oh, it's a student project

[Vicissidude]

It's a student project, and it shows.

I agree. Having actually worked at a casino on the slots, I find the article lacking and in one area outright false. They say nothing about how the individual slot machines and their network actually works. Further, they are wrong in that casinos do not operate under a "laissez-faire" or unregulated free-market economy. The idea that casinos operate under "minimal government regulation" is so ridiculous as to be completely laughable.

Casino gambling is one of the most highly regulated industries in our nation. Every worker who applies to work at a casino has to fill out a literal inch of paperwork, just for the background check. They have to supply a ten year work history, and you are told not to skip any months. Their fingerprints are taken and supplied to federal databases. Those fingerprints are compared to see if any matches come up, and then they are permanently stored for future reference. If any problems come up in your record, then it's very likely you will not be licensed to work there.

Once you are actually hired, that only begins the regulations. There are literally regulations for everything that a employee can and can not do, even after work. Those regulations are monitored by surveillance, casino management, state authorities, and the feds. Breaking those regulations could mean a suspension, pulling your license (effectively firing you), or even jail time. Casino gambling used to be controlled by the mob, so the authorities are deadly serious about making sure everything is done legally.

Re:Oh, it's a student project

[MegaFur]

I'm inclined to agree. They talk about the psychology of gambling as if they'd never knowed nothin' about it before (because, being college students, they probably didn't), and then they delve deep into the economics and get all polemical, but without the kind of evidence they really need to back it up. Just a few pictures of pretty Vegas casinos.

Re:Oh, it's a student project

[stonecypher]

The idea that casinos operate under "minimal government regulation" is so ridiculous as to be completely laughable.

No, it isn't. You should see the regulations other companies have for gambling machines - they specify the entire payout structures, the hit likelihoods, the amount of noise the machines are amount to make, the volume of brightness allowed to be put out in lumens, all sorts of stuff. All the American gaming services do is require regular random testing of the machines, honest posting of stats, no rigged machines, and a cap on expected draw. America has about the most open and liberal market possible while still intending to verify the honesty of a proprietor.

Just because it's hard to regulate gambling honesty doesn't mean that we're doing a particularly overbearing job of it. In general, it's not appropriate even as a professional to suggest that one country's regulations are or are not strict until you have experience with the regulations of other countries (as usual, Canada doesn't count.)

Casino gambling is one of the most highly regulated industries in our nation.

Nonsense. Again you are confusing your lack of personal experience with something more strict with that there is nothing more strict. Neighborhood banks go through regulations that make casinos look positively lax. The local UPS hub has an on-site police force (and no, your 20-dude goon squad in casino floor 3 isn't a police force, I mean an actual went to the real police acadamy people with badges that mean something in court type police force;) that's there for a reason. Your local airport guys are rolling their eyes right now. Any place that sells chemical fertilizer (not dirt) is pretty pissed at you right now. A gas station goes through more verifications per-machine than a casino does, though given how many more machines a casino has than a gas station, the validity of that point is ... curious.

Then you get down to places with real security - prisons, power plants, dams, stock exchanges, CDC Level 3+ quarantine sites (there's at least one in almost every major city and one at most strong medical schools,) ports of call, military bases, missile silos - you say gambling's securer than those places around the people who keep them secure, you're likely to get a punch in the mouth.

'Course, if by "regulated" you meant investigated by the government, well, then you obviously have no experience in finance, transportation, the fuel sector, alcohol, tobacco, pornography, television decency, abortion, cosmetic surgery, car sales or cell phone region mapping. Indeed, if you take a good solid look at it, casino regulation is pretty much on par with other industries making that amount of money. You want something better regulated, you move up the dollar chain, you get religious ethics involved or you make a genuine stab at the public health.

Frankly, prostitution is a better regulated Nevada state industry than gambling is; that's why they can spot disease trends across small brothels but not theft trends across major casinos on the same street. You seem to think that any enforcement in a casino is government enforcement. The vast bulk of it isn't. No government agency says that a casino has to look for cheaters. They're doing that themselves because it's in their financial best interest. Gambling regulation is just a set of rules saying how far they're allowed to set the statistics, how long they're allowed to milk a given customer, and a lot of random sampling to make sure people are telling the truth.

You want real regulation, you look at the drug war. That's regulation that works better than casino regulation, and everybody being regulated is fighting it as hard as they can, unlike casinos, who cooperate quite openly.

Re:Oh, it's a student project

[node159]

I lost at "freeslots"... fuck you buddy, I want my time back since that was the only thing that was taken.

Re:Oh, it's a student project

[Vellmont]

You point out many examples of industries that are more highly regulated than the casino industry. I'll take your word for it that your example industries are more highly regulated. I don't think any of this matters however.

The thing is, the statement wasn't that the casino industry is one of the most highly regulated industries. The statement was that casinos do NOT operate under "minimal government regulation". So to prove this statement correct or incorrect, we'd need to compare the level of regulation of the casino industry to one that people would agree has "minimal government regulation". I'd probably look at industries like the restaraunt, retail, or grocery industry. Restaraunts have health inspections, need licenses to sell alchohol, etc. The retail industry might require a business licence or something along those lines (I'm admittedly not an expert). By that comparison the Casino industry is far more regulated than those industries.

In any case, I think it's that your argument doesn't hold any water as you're not comparing the Casino industry to the category in dispute. It really makes no difference if Casino's are more, or less regulated than highly regulated industries, as that isn't the topic of debate.

Re:Oh, it's a student project

[Vicissidude]

Me: The idea that casinos operate under "minimal government regulation" is so ridiculous as to be completely laughable.
You: No, it isn't. You should see the regulations other companies have for gambling machines - they specify the entire payout structures, the hit likelihoods, the amount of noise the machines are amount to make, the volume of brightness allowed to be put out in lumens, all sorts of stuff. All the American gaming services do is require regular random testing of the machines, honest posting of stats, no rigged machines, and a cap on expected draw. America has about the most open and liberal market possible while still intending to verify the honesty of a proprietor.

I worked as a Gaming Agent in Washington state and actually helped set up a brand new, 2000-slot casino, so excuse me if I know more about this than you do.

All new video lottery terminals (slot machines), games, and templates are checked and verified by the Washington State Gambling Commission. They have a Testing Lab specifically set up strictly for that purpose. If those machines do not pass the test, then those machines are not allowed anywhere in the state of Washington. If those games do not pass the test, then those games are not allowed anywhere in the state of Washington. If the templates do not pass, then they are not allowed in Washington.
http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/egl/mission.asp

At the Tribal level, machine processors are kept under 24-hour lock and key and surveillance. Each processor for each slot is individually, electronically checked and confirmed against state signatures. The machines come straight from the manufacturer in sealed trucks. The machines are installed under the eyes of Tribal Gaming, Slot Maintenance, Security, Surveillance, and the manufacturer's technicians. They are tested by Slot Maintenance and the manufacturer, observed by Tribal Gaming, Security, and Surveillance. The machines can only be put into play once Tribal Gaming and the State Gambling Commission has checked and verified that the machines are operating properly.

Washington state has some of the most strict laws around gaming and slot machines in the nation:
Laws http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.46
Rules http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=230

Those laws and rules are underneath the federal laws around gambling and above the individual Tribal Compacts which also regulate gambling. I studied and learned all of those laws and was tasked with the duty of enforcing them. As a member of the Tribal Gaming Agency, we were at the casino 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. By law, the casino was not allowed to remain open if one of our staff were not on the premises. We had complete and full access to every area in the casino at any time we wanted, regardless of the wishes of casino management or workers. At least half of our agency were former police officers. Were we badged members of Tribal Government with the authority to arrest and detain suspects.

Saying there is "minimal government regulation" of casinos is abjectly false. Saying that this industry is not highly regulated is also abjectly false. Your arguments are disingenuous at best, and outright lies at worst.

And suddenly, I heard this faint voice that said..

[r_jensen11]

...Stay away from the light!

The near misses are not "programmed."

[dada21]

I've spent some time with slot machine code -- I actually love the old reel machines (which are generally the only ones you can own based on most state laws), and I've done some minor consulting with casinos in Las Vegas. The near misses are not encoded into the machine.

It is easy to believe the machines are built to take your money, but it has nothing to do with preset expectations. They truly are random, but each wheel has a specific number of possible results. Each wheel is independently picked from a random number generator with numbers picked at the instant you hit the spin button or pull the lever.

All 3 or 4 wheels might have a number of possible positions, numbering as high as 1024 per wheel. The first half of those numbers (say, 0-511) will be "blank" hits, so the wheel will stop on a blank. Then another 256 or so might be a symbol with a low payout, and then you get progressively less hits on the higher paying symbols. As you move further down the wheel, you get even fewer high paying "hit" numbers. The big payout only occurs on one or two numbers per wheel.

When the right combination of random numbers occurs, you win a payout. The chance is slim, with most machines paying out a percentage avering 85-92% over infinite spins, based purely on the mathematical chance of hitting a specific combination of random numbers in a spin.

Seeing those "near hits" is only because white "loser" spots on the wheel are always surrounded by symbols. Those near misses are almost always symbols that would pay SOMETHING, but rarely do you get 3 symbols that are near misses of the jackpot.

This summer, I spent a considerable amount of time in LV -- I was on a consulting project each month and stayed at the Paris casino. Over two days, I decided to "track" the play on a given slot machine, by attempting to jot down the results. The machine is certainly random, and if you watch a machine long enough and write down the actual results (landed on white space between red 7 and blue 7, landed on red 7, landed on cherry), you can eventually come up with the percentage chance of hitting a particular symbol. You need thousands of spins on a particular machine, but you'll get those percentages eventually.

In a game with less of a mathematical payout chance than 100%, the casino doesn't need to cheat. It's already guaranteed a profit on the lifetime of the machine. Some players do win in Vegas -- those who walk away after their first penny of profit. Everyone else eventually has the math get the best of them.

SIDENOTE:I don't condone gambling, but I do like the entertainment value of meeting up with a few friends and spending a few hours at the craps tables. $25 bets over a 4 hour period, betting the pass line with full odds, has a very low risk of losing your money (1.4% risk of ruin with a $2000 bankroll). The comps you receive in exchange more than make up for any loss. That's the only game in Vegas I think still has a slight player's edge, with comps and freebies added in.

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[LordSnooty]

The European style of slot machine (or "fruit machine" in the UK) has a thriving emulation scene around it with many machines in use ten years ago available to play in Windows. If you wanted to perform some analysis on this type of machine, you could.

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[Joe The Dragon]

the UK fruit machines are fixed.
http://www.fairplay-campaign.co.uk/fruit/index.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaIesHOIQJs

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[Repton]

"They truly are random"

In New Zealand, some years ago, at the Sky City Casino in Auckland a man was playing the slot machines. He won the jackpot: a new car. He had credits left, so he played again. He won the jackpot again: a second new car.

The casino refused to give him his second car, because the machines were "not supposed to do that".

(I think he took them to court, and may even have won, but it was a while ago, and my google skills are insufficient)

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[Ron Bennett]

The near misses are not "programmed" per se, but rather, as some other posters have pointed out, is due to uneven distribution of the virtual reel symbols*

* a visual symbol on modern slots is assigned to one or typically numerous virtual reel positions (ie. 0 to 255 or whatever); typically "blank" is assigned the vast majority on many machines with the other higher paying symbols being assigned few to as little as one specific number only. The distribution is often different for each of the reels (typically 3) on the machine.

Do some googling on "virtual reel positions" and similar for a better, more detailed explaination of distributions and near misses ...

In short, the near misses are NOT programmed - they don't need to be ... what you are seeing is statistics at work due to the uneven distribution of symbols on the virtual reels.

Ron

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[Ron Bennett]

I agree, he should get the 2nd car...

There are numerous instances in which a person will win a big jackpot and then shortly afterwards win another, even possibly same exact, one ... even on the same machine - and many employees who have worked on the casino floor will attest to observing such happenings.

Every event is unrelated to the previous ... the odds of hitting the big one remains exactly the same for the next spin regardless of whether one hit it before or not.

Either there is more to the story or that casino is operated by idiots because an experienced casino manager is well aware of basic statistics; at minimum from mere observation alone.

Ron

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[GoodbyeBlueSky1]

Over two days, I decided to "track" the play on a given slot machine, by attempting to jot down the results. How did you do this without attracting attention? I feel like many casinos would threaten to break your knees if they saw you doing that, despite the fact that as you say it wouldn't help you win. It still looks "weird" and surely the billion cameras in the ceiling could see you.

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[KDR_11k]

Are those blanks actual blanks or just mismatching symbols? I've never seen a slot machine with blanks but then again I haven't been inside a casino, I've only seen those things you see in the corner of a bar.

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[FiniteElementalist]

Why would they do that? The only motivation for concern they would have is that he might be trying to mess with the machine's electronics or coin mechanisms, but just writing stuff down wouldn't be cause for that.

There's a reason why they display past results for Roulette tables: they let people form false patterns on random data. If they see him recording the machine, then he is likely trying to come up with a "system", which doesn't work, or is trying to figure out the payout and probability structure of the machine, which is harmless since it is well known that the machine is skewed against him either way.

As long as he is not interfering with the other gamblers I see little incentive for the casino to stop him.

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[dada21]

Notepad, pen. Never had a problem with casino security or management. Rules are you can't have electronics when playing (was told to put my cell phone away a few times at the craps tables), but nothing is wrong with having a notepad and a pen. In fact, I have a very close friend and business partner who plays video poker a few times a year at big values, and he writes down everything. He also has all the "Perfect Play" mathematical payout odds written on his notepad on pages 1-10. Again, no security issues.

Casinos don't care about that stuff as long as you are not using electronics which may be used for the wrong reasons (communicating with another player during a poker event, or videotaping/audiotaping employees or other customers). Also, there is a comp-ruse that some people have used at the craps table (one player playing the pass, one player playing the don't pass, in hopes of breaking even but generating huge comps for both players) -- the casino management and tracking software now flags these players within 5 rolls of the dice, and then the pit boss will reduce their comps slowly as they continue to try to scam the system.

Vegas is great for a few things: easy access to decent shows (see Beatles' LOVE), decent buffets, fun people after 2am at almost any hotel bar (usually employees off duty), and the pinball machine museum (awesome, rent a car to get there and back). Also hiking at Red Rock is amazing (rent a car).

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[sholden]

How is that fixed? What's the difference from randomly determining that the player will win the first N-1 plays, and lose the Nth; and randomly determining at each play whether it wins or loses? Assuming the probabilities are done correctly of course.

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[LordSnooty]

Yes, almost everyone who plays them seriously knows that this is the case, in fact they are classed as 'AWP' - Amusement With Prizes. (Other machines are Skill With Prizes & have lower jackpots). Also they have many tricks like holding the Cancel button slows down some gamble-type game, these Easter Eggs eventually became part of the standard design. But they are all pre-determined to pay out the percentage of money it's set to, as per the video. The gamble is playing the machine at the right time, ie when it's full and ready to release some money. Surely the LV-style slot machines act in a not-dissimilar way - like they don't get the PR campaign ready before they decide which day the multi-million slot jackpot is won...

Re:The near misses are not "programmed."

[LunaticTippy]

Would the casino be as blithe about your notepad and pen at a card table? You could count cards and give yourself an advantage. Of course, casinos will eject and lifeban and share this info with other casinos at their whim. I had a friend who was a math whiz who could count cards in his head. He got blacklisted from one casino and found that all other major casinos would intercept him within minutes.

Slot machines, lottery, stock market

[iminplaya]

Can anybody tell the difference? I prefer Keno myself. Drink fast and pay slow.

Re:Slot machines, lottery, stock market

[iminplaya]

The stock market is every bit as "random" as Vegas. The house always wins. The payout is percentage set by the house. Talking about Sony is like picking out a single casino. It's like saying that the MGM Grand will go broke because one of their slot machines only made 25,000 dollars yesterday. It does nothing to show the big picture.

bZZZzzZzZTTTTTt!

[mabhatter654]

Snap! Krackle! Pop!

People always want to be a winner

[CrazyJim1]

I was thinking today: If someone wins at a slot machine, they tell other people and get them interested in the trip to a casino. Now when people lose, they don't go bragging like they do when they win so negative publicity is low. It's always,"Hey I bought a motorcylce with my winnings." or,"I played all day on one dollar."

Re:People always want to be a winner

[klenwell]

I read somewhere recently (I think it was The Black Swan by NNT) that whether or not you become a gambling addict depends largely on your first experience with it. First-time winners tend to be more likely to become addicts. A form of confirmation bias -- affirmation bias?

Luckily, my dad had no mercy on me playing poker as a 5 year-old.

Re:People always want to be a winner

[Splab]

Some years back one of my friends and I went to the casino when they had "free" night (first sunday every other month they didn't charge entrance fee). They sat op introduction tables where newcomers could learn how to play the card games and roulette. The reason why we allways came these nights was that the slot machines seemed to be paying out good. We usually just entered with about $10 and headed for the slots, cant remember ever going home from one of those nights with less than $100.
Granted this is based on my own perception on how the plays went, but there did seem to be a higher than 100% payout on slots.

Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[thc69]

The last time I was in a casino, I realized that out of the thousands of drones sitting at machines, not a single one was smiling. Aren't they there to have fun? Must be something like grinding and farming in an MMORPG...lots of unpleasant time spent "having fun".

I repeat: Thousands of people. Zero smiles. Legions of bleary-eyed bleak-souled drones.

I have no moral problem with gambling, and it doesn't bother me that there are four casinos within two hours drive of my house...but I just can't understand why any of those people are there, doing that. They sure don't look like they're having fun. (And, you may ask, why was I there? Restaurants.)

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[Paulrothrock]

The wife and I went to a casino in Atlantic City. I took out $20 and left my bank cards in the car so that I couldn't take out any more. Five minutes at one slot machine and I was out of dough. I looked at my wife and asked "Okay, so now what?" It wasn't fun at all.

Now, sitting down at a table with a bunch of friends and playing cards is one thing, but pushing a button on a machine like a rat? I can do that at home for free.

If you go to Atlantic City, make sure you check out the Ripley's museum. It's the only good thing in that god foresaken town.

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[ChromeAeonium]

Probably the same reason people play the lottery. They think that if they keep playing (aka. throwing away money), it will pay off if they keep playing/they'll recoup their losses. Have you ever seen someone look unhappy and buy a ticket, scratch it off, and discard it, or one of those people buy a bunch of state lotto tickets? I'd bet that a lot have, more or less, the same look and motivating force.
You know how cigarettes say, 'Warning: May cause lung cancer?' Maybe casinos should have a sign that says, 'Warning: There are better ways to make money.'

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[CrazyJim1]

Asheron's Call 1 had some of the best "Slot machine loot" of any MMORPG I know. I used to make $15 an hour on ebay with the normal stuff I'd find, then when an ultra rare came along, it could net me upwards of $100. Too bad the Chinese came into the fray so soon. It was pretty lucrative to play and sell stuff on ebay. Some people made enough to buy real houses with their income. Now you're lucky if you can dredge out $5 an hour because the games are so unfriendly to tradable loot and Chinese gold farmers.

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[Le Marteau]

not a single one was smiling. Aren't they there to have fun?

Why is it required that one grin like an imbecile while 'having fun'? For example, look at a biker on a Harley Davidson. They generally look like someone took a mighty big piss in their corn flakes that morning. But I bet they sure are 'having fun' or however you would insist on phrasing it.

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[dbcad7]

Well, a slot machine is a single player game. Now maybe you can play Solitaire for hours with a grin on your face, but if you do then your destined for a padded room.

There are some people who are real social animals, and will talk to strangers while playing the slots, and have a great old time.. but if you are spending money to try and win some money, your probably concentrating on the machine, and wishing that this person would find themselves someone else to chat to. Maybe this doesn't seem fun to you, but it is to many people.

If you crave social interaction then most table games are where you'll find it. Some dealers are quite chatty, and many (but not all) players as well. This is where you will find the noisy people who do the rebel yell when they win ten bucks.,

I have hit thousand dollar jackpots at the machine and not made a peep. (video keno is my game).. Now maybe to you as an observer it may seem I am not having fun, but I don't care, keno paid for my last trip to germany.. It's all different strokes for different folks. I think the same could be said about golf (which I also enjoy)

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[justthinkit]

Maybe it was the music (or lack thereof). I was at the Hilton in Reno one time when a Dixieland band was playing and it really did make people happy. Modern/rock music is kind of depressing to lose money to. This unscientific two data point poll brought to you by Microsoft, and the symbol BAR.

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[Deadstick]

out of the thousands of drones sitting at machines, not a single one was smiling.

I can think of some people who didn't smile much during sex, either...

rj

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[steronz]

For real. My usual example of this is sex. Most people's sweaty, contorted faces don't look anything close to a smile.

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[Lazarian]

I've worked in pubs that have video lottery machines and have talked with friends who work as addiction and abuse counselors, and they gave me a lot of insight as to why that may be.

In many cases it may not be that people are actually trying to win, but they get addicted to the emotional rush of either winning -or- losing. I tended to see it more often with older people who are lonely or with people that I've known to be in emotionally starved relationships. The negative rush of losing that last twenty in the VLT seems to be just as addictive as the positive rush they get when they hit the jackpot, and I suppose it may be part of the same mechanism where some people stay in abusive relationships. What keeps them sitting there is not necessarily the urge to win, but the desire to -feel-. Be it the elderly person whose kids don't visit anymore and they go home to an empty apartment, or the woman who's boyfriend that makes her feel like she doesn't exist. It's the stimulus they seem to be after. And I've noticed that the crowd that play those machines tend to develop their own social group apart from everyone else, with the lottery machine at the center.

That's a vast over-simplification of course, but after talking with people who deal with addictions, it does seem to make some sense. People can get addicted to stimuli, and ones that are negative or painful can be just as addictive as pleasurable ones. You get to see a lot of examples working in places like that, from the guy who gets shitfaced every night because he doesn't want to go home and face the wife and kids, to the lonely woman staring emptily at the screen because there's nobody worth going home to.

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[steve-san]

I agree with you 100%.

That said, the next time you walk into a casino and hear shouts and cheering (usually accompanied by smiles), go investigate where it's coming from. In my experience, it's almost always the craps table. Given, there's a learning curve beyond mindless button-pushing, but:
a. The game is actually fun, as you're riding the ups and downs with a group of other real, live people
b. You don't feel like you're being robbed by a machine
c. As others have mentioned in detail, you can play (smart) for a long time, getting good bang for your entertainment buck, and possibly walk away with considerably more than you started with

Of course, YMMV.

Re:Psychology of slot machine users: Depressed

[Cro Magnon]

I doubt that I smile much at the casino, partly because I usually lose my shirt, but mostly because I'm focussed on the machine (usually vidio poker). I still enjoy it, but it's not the sort of activity that gets me jumping up and down (unless I get a Royal Flush).

hahahaha

[yoha]

Wikipedia is cited as a source

Monaco online casino

[Proto23]

I have actually built an online casino for a third party in Monaco and they aked us to rig the slotmachines so they would pay out more than their natural randomness would do, because they want their clients/addicts to have as much fun as possible for as long as possible before they run out of money. We even had a button that they could press in the management pages that would trigger a Jackpot within 50 games or so to keep the customer happy. When someone was gambling they would monitor how much money he had lost and if it became too much, they would grant him the jackpot so he could play a few more hours before that money was gone too. Of course the software was coded never to pay out more than a fixed percentage but the percentages were all in the 95-98% range.

Re:Fraud is a Crime

[Golgafrinchan]

Your post failed to show that casinos are "lying" or "defrauding" customers.

The lighting and drinks are lies? What does that mean?

The drugged air? I've heard of that conspiracy theory, but as far as I know, it's only that -- a conspiracy theory which has never been proven. Additionally, many of the casinos in Las Vegas are open to the outside, so it would be really difficult to "drug" the air when so much of it is coming from outside. Unless you'd suggest that the Las Vegas air itself is drugged, but then you'd be loony.

How is the arrangement of odds a lie? There's nothing in any casino anywhere that says that everything is a fair bet, so you're just as likely to win as you are to lose. In fact, at some slot machines, signs advertise your likelihood of winning -- "97% payout", for example.

So tell us again... where are all these lies you're referring to?

Cool story but I like the SeeMeWin experiment more

[GamblingAddict]

Interesting read but I definitely have to say that I'm enjoying the SeeMeWin gambling experiment better. The hot chicks don't hurt. Now that's research!

Re:Cool story but I like the SeeMeWin experiment m

[flashman43]

I just checked out the seemewin.com site from your post. An hour and a half later... wow, it's addicting. I'm about to go out and buy some scratch tickets myself. They won about 5 times in a row. That NEVER happens by probability alone. Read their blog... I think they may be on to something about the distribution of winning tickets.

You could have read the article.

[twitter]

The lighting and drinks are lies? What does that mean? The drugged air? I've heard of that conspiracy theory, but as far as I know, it's only that -- a conspiracy theory

The article's authors believe otherwise and explain themselves before deciding that regulating fraudulent practices in casinos was some kind of paternalistic, protecting the marks from themselves move. Allow me to quote what they said because you are too lazy to read or to protective to acknowledge the practices.

The mark is kept unaware of the passing of time by artificial lighting.

In most Las Vegas casinos, there is a noticeable lack of natural light and of clocks. The gambling floor is always located away from the main entrance out onto the street to minimize the gamblers exposure to the outside world. ... This design keeps casino patrons in a perpetual (and artificial) daytime, exterior environment, whether they are gambling or not. Thus, those who are already gambling find it easier to keep gambling, and those who are simply walking around the casino are more inclined to start using a machine

Near misses manipulate the player's sense of odds

The most important of these is the inclusion of a system in the machine that yields a high frequency of near misses, or situations in which the player believes they have almost won. For example, the slot machine often displays two out of the three jackpot bars, a tremendously stimulating event which has greatly reinforced the players behavior at no cost to the casino. The ringing bells, flashing lights, and other sounds from their own machine and nearby machines are other secondary conditioning mechanisms that keep the player stimulated.

Manipulation of payout odd placement

casinos are planned such that there are slot machines lining walkways around tables. However, these slots are always tight. This cuts down on the noise and distraction to table players, and makes sense because the majority of players on these machines are playing spontaneously, with little expectation of winning. This demonstrates to what degree casino layouts are optimizedin this case, to the point that a complex system is implemented simply to clean up loose change from spontaneous players.

Drugging patrons.

It has even been reported that casinos have attempted to manipulate the air circulation in order to affect the behavior of gamblers. They may add extra oxygen to the circulation to keep gamblers more alert, or even add pheromones that make people feel more relaxed and at ease. Casinos vehemently deny these allegations; however, companies marketing these technologies do exist and do make sales to casinos.

"Free" drinks and ordinary odds are not deceptive like the above is. The mark is unaware of the powerful emotional manipulation at work. This is not a friendly game of cards, it's fraud.

Re:You could have read the article.

[Splab]

My own experience with casinos here in Denmark are that first of all they are below street level, this means you have to walk up a flight of stairs, this is supposedly to keep you playing (people are lazy?). Also, when you play the dealer is always placed on a chair sitting higher than the players - this is as far as I know supposed to make the dealer seem superioer to the player and thus making it harder to stand up and go. (and they got the lighting and no clocks also)

Re:You could have read the article.

[Blakey Rat]

If artificial lighting for a business that's open 24 hours a day is a conspiracy, then almost every Wal-Mart and grocery store in the US is involved in some kind of huge conspiracy!

Of course, it would be unthinkable to a conspiracy theorist that they might, you know, keep the lights on so people could see what they're doing? Nah, must be a conspiracy-- any normal business would turn off their lights when the sun went down, even if they were still open!

Re:You could have read the article.

[TropicalCoder]

I have never gambled at a casino. They scare me. Once someone invited me to go along, and I went, since I needed to get out of the house. I stayed at the bar, reading a book until my companion had had enough, and refused to go near a machine, even when offered some free tokens by a casino employee. The power of the psychology employed is a frightening concept. At this point there have been decades of research into sales and marketing and how to arrange shelf space to maximize profits, and as another here pointed out, even universities in Los Vegas that specialize in the psychology of gambling. Manipulation of the environment with lighting and air "conditioning" adds another dimension. Imagine the potential to take this to a whole new level with cutting edge technology such as face recognition and detection of emotions. Imagine a person is looking bored, or anxiously looking at his watch, and starts walking toward the door. Suddenly the machines all around him are triggered to win, lights flashing, coins raining down. I doubt there would be any laws against increasing the payout at will - ie: giving away money, only against decreasing it below some regulated amount. There was mention of strategically placed machines that pay out more than normal in highly visible locations. Imagine that instead of each machine having its own microprocessor, its software is hosted on a virtual platform on cluster somewhere. Then its payout could be manipulated instantly to suit the moment - to attract attention when required. Computers with face/emotion recognition could have vast neural networks that would learn how to maximize profits from each individual, as well as the group as a whole. It would recognize regulars and first timers. The software would grow so sophisticated with time that it would be beyond the ability of any individual to comprehend. The computers would also help to motivate employees and have them smiling encouragement or handing out free drinks at the precise moment required or doing whatever it is that keeps the money flowing to the casino's coffers. It would experiment with lighting levels, sounds, music, temperature, air movement, every detail of the environment, constantly fine tunning and instantly adapting to ever changing realities. Each casino would have its "control centre" and its software would be a closely guarded secret. It would be a trap from who's clutches you would never escape - Hotel California.

I think casinos should required to foot the bill for social problems caused by gambling and gambling addiction. ...and if this was a requirement, would owning a casino still be profitable?

Re:You could have read the article.

[Dun Malg]

The mark is kept unaware of the passing of time by artificial lighting.

Near misses manipulate the player's sense of odds

Manipulation of payout odd placement These are all well known to experienced gamblers. It's idiotic to call them tactics against a "mark" when the "mark" knows full well they're being used.

Drugging patrons. Here is where I have first hand experience that shows you're on crack.

It has even been reported that casinos have attempted to manipulate the air circulation in order to affect the behavior of gamblers. They may add extra oxygen to the circulation to keep gamblers more alert, As an electrician I worked closely with the guys maintaining the heating and AC systems in the casinos. The amount of air blowing out the open doors of your average casino nearly makes it impossible to keep it cool inside, much less maintain a certain level of any substance in that air. Besides the fact that it's a felony to adulterate the air like that, the fact is that you could not economically add enough oxygen to the air to make a difference. You get better results keeping people alert by turning the thermostat down a couple degrees.

or even add pheromones that make people feel more relaxed and at ease. You know that no scientific study has every identified any human pheromone, much less a specific one that makes people "feel more relaxed and at ease", right? Well no, of course not. You're a nut case. If it doesn't support your theories, it's a lie or a conspiracy.

Casinos vehemently deny these allegations; Of course they do, just like they deny that they're spiking the drinks with methamphetamine and using hypnotic eye blasts to make people keep gambling.

however, companies marketing these technologies do exist and do make sales to casinos. If you have evidence these companies are selling to specific casinos, why have neither you nor anyone else gone to the gaming commission and had them shut down? Because all you have is claims by the companies that they've sold to unnamed casinos, right? Huh. Sounds more like typical deceptive marketing for products that don't work because, as noted earlier, adding oxygen does nothing and human pheromones are a lie.

"Free" drinks and ordinary odds are not deceptive like the above is. The mark is unaware of the powerful emotional manipulation at work. This is not a friendly game of cards, it's fraud.

Seriously, you're nuts. Casinos don't need any of those tricks. The gambling industry is pretty darned transparent. It has to be. It's tightly regulated and closely watched. It doesn't need to engage in deceptive practices to make money. Face it, they don't have to trick people into gambling. People like to gamble already. They need only stand there and and take their 3%.

Re:You could have read the article.

[Cro Magnon]

I noticed something else at the casino I play at. When leaving the casino, the first window to the outside that you see is tinted. It makes it look like a gloomy day outside, even if the sun is shining. I suspect that it's deliberate, so the gambler will think it's a crappy day outside and go back to gambling.

Re:Next semester: The Prostitute

[ResidntGeek]

...or an unimaginably small sample size, or confirmation bias?

White on Black

[DavidD_CA]

How about a study on the effects of reading a white-on-black website has on the mind, including the homicidal tendendices that follow?

Seriously, that trend started back in like 1997. Can we put it to rest?

Re:White on Black

[fbjon]

you know some people actually PREFER not to stare into a lightbulb. Only those who forgot to turn on the lights in the room, as is widely recommended.

Re:White on Black

[toddestan]

Even in a well lit room, I still prefer light on dark as opposed to the other way around.

You're calling them crazy?

[Afecks]

You're calling other people crazy yet you've found a way to turn this discussion into anti-Microsoft hate propaganda yet again like the countless others. You're not even talking about how great something is, you're talking about how much it sucks, constantly. If you hate it so much why do you focus on it to the point where you can't have a normal conversation about anything BUT this single topic?

Re:You're calling them crazy?

[RickRussellTX]

I'll simply point out that others have noted that Microsoft products induce loyalty by making you work for it .

This is fairly common

[heinousjay]

It's what happens when people build their entire persona around a single idea. The best thing to do with people who exhibit a singular focus is to ignore them, lest you get sucked into their psychological pathology inadvertently.

Re:This is fairly common

[bladesjester]

I still say the anti-microsoft fanboy should lose the last 3 letters from his username =]

Re:Cool story but I like the SeeMeWin experiment m

[GamblingAddict]

it is addicting i agreee

Believe it........ or not

[Anonymous Coward]

I went to Atlantic City this one time, and saw this car sitting there with a handful of bank cards lying in the seat. Whipped out my slim jim and popped the sucker open. Got a free car and a few hundred bucks' worth of cards out of the deal. Bet the owner wished he'd stayed home. I was so amazed by my luck that I stopped by the Ripley's museum to see if they wanted to buy my story. The losers said that they weren't interested because apparently this kind of thing happens all the time there. So, I sold the car and the cards to some guy at a chop shop, headed to the nearest casino, and blew the whole wad on the slots.

Music

[asm2750]

I've herd that some of the notes a slot machine generates entices people to play.

Fairness is in the casino's best interests

[Myria]

It is in the best interest of casinos for their games to be fair. They want their machines to follow the rules exactly, and be as random as possible - the math takes care of the rest. If they weren't following the rules, Nevada and the public would get them shut down very quickly.

I really don't like the way such places try to manipulate people. The near misses aren't manipulated by the machine's operation, but the game's layout is designed such that near misses are a natural result. The methods used by casinos very much the same crap as supermarkets micromanaging item placement to trick you and your children into buying more items and more expensive items. I dislike that more than the idea of going somewhere to lose money.

By the way, I'm one of those Vegas winners you speak of. I was bored and waiting for a show so I sat and played quarter video poker. I got a royal flush on the 4th hand - $1000. Walked away immediately, and haven't gambled since then. Lost a total of maybe $30 in my life before then on similar cheap games.

Re:Fairness is in the casino's best interests

[iphayd]

You're one of the lucky ones then. Talk to a gambling addict, most define their addiction to have started with a win.

(IANAGA) and (IANAGA counselor, but my wife is)

Re:Fraud is a Crime

[echucker]

One little problem with the drugged air theory - it would equally affect the casino's employees.

Re:When good slots go bad

[Easy2RememberNick]

If it's done "randomly and briefly (to (sic) quick to see, really, but caught on camera)" what's the problem? If you can't see it you won't know about it.

Poor choice of emulator

[Knave75]

The featured article discusses an online slot machine emulator that they used as part of their research. This emulator is on a website that, once you feel you have won an appropriate number of credits, lets you "enter a sweepstakes" with those winnings. Needless to say, while playing the emulator, it is almost impossible not to end up ahead after a reasonable number of plays, since the company wants you to enter their sweepstakes.

The article then goes on to say that this emulator formed a good part of the author's research into slot machines. With research like that, how can you go wrong?

Re:Fraud is a Crime

[Fross]

The drugged air? I've heard of that conspiracy theory, but as far as I know, it's only that -- a conspiracy theory which has never been proven.

Based solely on my own trip to Las Vegas, my body clock was completely shot having flown across the Atlantic and partying lots, but staying in one of the big hotels, I found something very very weird that made me believe something in all that.

I woke up at 8am. Every. Single. Day.

Not that that is unusual enough for me, but it felt like I was waking up even when I didn't want to.

Went to bed at 10pm, jetlagged. Woke up at 8am. Fine, unexpected but normal.
Partied til 3am. Woke up at 8am, feeling groggy. Unusual. Had an afternoon nap.
Partied til 6am, got absolutely wrecked, and guess what? Woke up at 8am on the dot, feeling *so* tired (and still drunk, not hungover. Just really tired!) Couldn't get back to sleep, until about 9:30am, where I slept for another 6 hours.

I've never had a punctual body-clock, let alone when partying, so that really weirded me out. Especially the last morning, when I actually *wanted* to sleep, but somehow couldn't.

I'd be the first to believe they put something in the air to perk people up and get them to go out and spend their money.

Slot players won't even play high-payout machines

[mbstone]

More noteworthy, gaming regulations require that slot machines that are posted as having a certain percentage payout must pay out that amount. In Las Vegas and Atlantic City, there are slots with signs reading "99.8% Payout" (in other words, the vigorish -- the fee charged by the casino for the privilege of gambling there -- is 0.2%). If slot players were rational, they would line up to play these machines; they could play longer and win more often. Instead, in my experience, these machines sit empty. Inference: Most slot players don't understand the concept of vig, or don't care.

You can sometimes find video poker machines posted as paying over 100%, of course you need to know an optimal VP strategy to take advantage of them.

Actual craps odds

[mbstone]

Actually, a craps pass or come line bet with full odds has a house percentage far less than 1.4% (with Las Vegas 3x/4x/5x odds, it's about 0.55%). The 1.4% house edge is only on the pass or come line ("flat") bet, the odds are free (0% house advantage). This is also different from the "risk of ruin" which is calculated as the odds you will lose all of your money after X number of bets. And yes, if you stick to pass or come line bets with full odds (avoiding other more expensive bets), you might well have a +EV if you include the value of "comps."

Re:Oh, sure. Trust me.

[Macthorpe]

If you're going to link to your own posts as evidence, can you at least choose one that isn't quite so thoroughly debunked?

What flamebait.

[twitter]

It's idiotic to call them tactics against a "mark" ... Here is where I have first hand experience that shows you're on crack. ... You're a nut case. ... Seriously, you're nuts. ...

If I'm crazy, why are you talking to me? I don't mind, but you need to build some reading comprehension skills and manners.

I don't have any claims other than the hypocrisy of the original article. They, not I make all of these claims. You and I both agree that if some of these claims are true they are a violation of law and that regulating them is not only sensible it's already happened. We may quibble over the morality of the rest but it's silly to believe all of the above and then say that regulations are paternalistic.

Of course, I don't need claims to think Casinos are disgusting and predatory. There is little social good they do to justify the harm they also do. Things were better when people ran restaurants instead.

Re:What flamebait.

[Macthorpe]

So, let me summarise what you said:

"I'm not claiming anything, it's the article, so don't blame me. However, I claim casinos are horrible, disgusting, evil sinholes."

Do you ever preview before you submit?

Re:Fraud is a Crime

[Ambidisastrous]

If the extra oxygen (or whatever) is there to keep gamblers more alert and energetic, that's fine if it affects the dealers too, as long as it's not a health hazard.

Garbage

[jaffray]

One really wonders why the hell these kids chose to do a student project on slot machines, when by their own admission the closest they've ever been to a slot machine is watching one on an episode of The Simpsons. The article is full of urban myths and unsourced nonsensical claims.

"Casino planners know that slot players love to see and hear other people winning on nearby machines, because players hold it as evidence that money can be made on the machines. Thus casinos are designed to have the loosest machines in prominent areas"

Do you really believe a casual observer can tell the difference between a 95% slot and a 98% slot? It'd take dozens of hours of nonstop play before the difference in the results would become statistically significant - and the authors are suggesting that passersby will be influenced by a highly visible slot being looser over a stretch of a few seconds or minutes!

I've played in casinos where games returning 90% sit a few feet away from identical games returning 95%, and very few of even the most regular players, who spend many hours a week in front of the machines, show any sign of recognizing that one is better than the other.

"Studies have shown that carpeting is often purposefully jarring to the eyes, which draws customers' gaze upwards toward the machines on the gambling floor."

First of all, *everything* in a casino is jarring to the eyes! I have no idea to what "studies" they refer, and God forbid they give a source, but they overlook the most obvious reason for the carpets - casino carpets are filthy! They're heavily trafficked and routinely have drinks spilled on them. A busy pattern helps disguise the stains.

"It is nearly impossible not to feel as though one is being almost forced to spend money the moment one sets foot in a casino."

Really? Because my reaction has always been to get to where I'm going as soon as possible to get away from the noise and smoke. Stop projecting.

Re: Citation

[klenwell]

Since the AC who posted this comment was obviously unequal to the task of finding the article, I tracked it down:

The Tug of the Newfangled Slot Machines (May 9, 2004 By GARY RIVLIN)

That should be enough to get anyone interested in going the right direction. Don't expect to find a free copy on the New York Times's site, where articles are only available for free for a very limited time.

From the article:

At 8 p.m. on a warm midsummer's night, Baerlocher watched a
woman dressed in green polyester pants and a
yellow-and-white-striped short-sleeved top play a slot
machine he designed called ''The Price Is Right.'' At
first, the woman's body language was noncommittal: she
stood half-turned from the game, as if no more than mildly
curious about the outcome of her wager. ''Price'' is what
slot pros call ''a cherry dribbler,'' a machine that
dispenses lots of small payouts while it nibbles at your
stash rather than biting off large chunks of it. ''You want
to give the newbie lots of positive reinforcement -- to
keep 'em playing,'' Baerlocher told me. As if on cue, the
woman hit a couple of small jackpots and took a seat.
''Gotcha,'' Baerlocher said softly under his breath.