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Dell to Offer More Linux PCs

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the one-good-turn dept.

head_dunce writes "According to this article, Mark Shuttleworth from the Ubuntu camp says Dell is seeing a demand for the Linux-based PC and, "There are additional offerings in the pipeline." I'm starting to see flashbacks of the days when Microsoft partnered up with IBM to gain control of the desktop market. Will other Linux flavors find their way to the likes of Lenovo or HP, etc, or will Ubuntu claim the desktop market working with other PC manufacturers?"

47 of 282 comments (clear)

  1. Advantage lost by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Dell's got to be hating this.

    That massive discount Microsoft gives them over smaller OEMs is Dell's biggest competitive advantage. Now they'll have to compete more directly with local whitebox builders.

    They don't have much choice though. The local box builders have already switched to Ubuntu as their OS of choice. Dell has to match them or be swamped.

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    1. Re:Advantage lost by ZakuSage · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Much as I love Ubuntu, I've not heard of any small or even medium sized OEM looking to market to the everyday PC consumer "switching to Ubuntu as their OS of choice".

    2. Re:Advantage lost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think if they were to hate anything about this, it would be Mark running his mouth off about their internal company information.

    3. Re:Advantage lost by b1ufox · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Which are these smaller OEM's BTW, who have shifted to Ubuntu already?
      I am not aware of any?

      Can you please elaborate?

      --
      -- "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - TAE --
    4. Re:Advantage lost by olyar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I would say a much larger advantage is that they have a good name. Businesses want to buy PC's that will work and that come ready to set up quickly. If you buy from Dell (or HP) you know that will be the case. Buy from others and you never know.

      Their brand is their advantage, not the few bucks per machine discount they can get from Microsoft. That helps profits, but its not what keeps them in business.

      --
      Custom, hands-free Linux installs. Instalinux
    5. Re:Advantage lost by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Informative
      I am not aware of any?
      Can you please elaborate?

      Look in your local newspaper.

      There'll be a dozen shopfront computer stores advertising pre-built computer systems. They build them in their backrooms and sell them to local families and businesses. Those guys pay wholesale prices of about AU$160.00 for Vista home premium, AU$320.00 for Office 2007 Standard and AU$50.00 for Norton Antivirus.

      They can retail a Sempron/Ubuntu home or small office system for less than it costs them in wholesale MS/Antivirus licenses.

      That's what Dell (and the second tier vendors) are scared of. If they drop the ball now, and let these little guys get a big enough foothold in the home/SME market, they could be in trouble.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    6. Re:Advantage lost by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dell's got to be hating this.

      That massive discount Microsoft gives them over smaller OEMs is Dell's biggest competitive advantage. Now they'll have to compete more directly with local whitebox builders.

      They don't have much choice though. The local box builders have already switched to Ubuntu as their OS of choice. Dell has to match them or be swamped.

      And there was me thinking that Dell's biggest competitive advantages were its huge purchasing power on all components, not just operating systems, and its brand-name recognition.

      I guess I was wrong. Who knew that Dell was paying the same price for CPUs, RAM, hard drives, etc that outfits run out of the owners' garages were paying?

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    7. Re:Advantage lost by 1u3hr · · Score: 4, Insightful
      If you buy from Dell (or HP) you know that will be the case. Buy from others and you never know.

      If by "others" you mean a name randomly chosen from the Yellow Pages, yes. But if it's a local vendor who you can talk to and check his references, it becomes a much safer proposition, and a lot less hassle than dealing with an enormous company that makes you press a dozen buttons on your phone before you can speak to anyone, who is never the same person who you talked with before and so you have to explain your problem over and over again.

    8. Re:Advantage lost by Your.Master · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ha! You didn't count on the fact that my hometown is incredibly tiny, and therefore has no such advertising.

    9. Re:Advantage lost by ozmanjusri · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just so you don't feel left out, here's an Aussie example for you to look at... http://www.cheapestpc.com.au/

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    10. Re:Advantage lost by VagaStorm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The margin on hardware is much smaller than it is on software, MS can give maybe a 70% discount whereas they might be able to get 10% on hardware.

      --
      www.aleo.no
    11. Re:Advantage lost by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The margin on hardware is much smaller than it is on software, MS can give maybe a 70% discount whereas they might be able to get 10% on hardware.

      Dell might be able to get 10 percent on hardware?

      If you think that the difference between the price that Dell pays for the average piece of hardware and the price that a one-man operation would pay for the same hardware is 10 percent then you're nuts.

      Dell undoubtably buys directly from manufacturers. When it buys Intel CPUs, it buys them directly from Intel. When it buys Belkin accessories, it buys them directly from Belkin. When Dell buys, there's no middleman.

      When a one-man operation buys Intel CPUs or Belkin accessories then it buys them from a distributor. There might be one, two or maybe even three such middlemen between it and Intel or Belkin. Each middleman takes a cut, which drives the price that the one-man operation pays for the products higher and higher. How much is that cut? Well, 10 percent per distributor would be a fair figure.

      (If you want to get a fairer idea of distribution costs, take the cost per 1,000 units that is typically quoted regarding CPUs and compare that to the typical single unit street price. Allow a small (maybe 5-10 percent) profit for the vendor and you'll see that the distribution chain takes a fair chunk along the way.)

      And all that's before you talk about how much of each product is bought by Dell. There's a big difference between maybe buying 5 CPUs a week through the channel and buying almost 200,000 a week directly from the manufacturer.

      In 2006, Dell accounted for 16.1 percent of the 59 million PCs shipped worldwide. Last year, Dell shipped 950 million PCs.

      Are you really telling me that you think that, with that sort of buying power, you don't think that Dell gets deals that give it a more than 10 percent hardware cost price advantage?

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    12. Re:Advantage lost by boyko.at.netqos · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dell's three biggest competitive advantages are Microsoft's discount, purchasing power on components, brand name recognition, and surprise. Dell's *four* biggest competitive advantages are Microsoft's discount, purchasing power, brand, surprise, fear, and ruthless efficiency. Dell's *five* biggest advantages are the discount, purchasing power, brand, surprise, fear and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to Michael Dell... Our *six*... no... *Amongst* Dell's competitive advantages... are such elements as the discount, purchasing power... I'll come in again...

      --
      I used to work for NetQoS. I no longer do, but want to keep the excellent karma attached to this account.
    13. Re:Advantage lost by tehcyder · · Score: 2, Funny

      In 2006, Dell accounted for 16.1 percent of the 59 million PCs shipped worldwide. Last year, Dell shipped 950 million PCs.
      Typo, I know, but it was amusingly bad luck that you emphasised it so heavily.
      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  2. The year of change by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is awesome. I haven't felt so happy about the computer world since I was trying to get my commodore64 to flash the boarder colors as quickly as possible. We have Dell selling Linux, (and apparently it's selling well), we have Macintosh sales up 33% from the same quarter last year (and that's even WITH people waiting for Leopard to come out), and Vista adoption is slow. Suddenly it looks as though finally the innovation stranglehold that Microsoft has held over us for many years is coming to an end. I'm not saying Microsoft will go away, but cross-platform compatibility will become the rule, not the exception. It will be easy to choose whichever platform you like, without worrying about not being able to run half your applications. Freedom will be a realistic choice.
    I suppose it was really inevitable in the long run, but I am happy to see the walls finally cracking.

    --
    Qxe4
    1. Re:The year of change by chuckymonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While I would love to see that come to pass as much as anyone, don't count on it just yet. There is still a very long road ahead and it's going to be painful in many respects and it's still not a sure thing. When five or six major OEMs start to offer a linux distro and the demand stays I'll start to hope, but right now it is just too early to tell.

      --
      "Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
    2. Re:The year of change by yvajj · · Score: 3, Informative


      I'm guessing you're either a linux or mac fan. I have 2 copies of Vista running, one on my laptop and one on my desktop. Both work flawlessly. I have not experienced any problems with IE. I've used both the 64 bit and 32 bit versions of IE without any problem. The only issue I've run into is that there isn't a 64 bit version of Flash, so I'm forced to use the 32 bit version of IE until Adobe release an update. This isn't really a Vista issue.

      Can you back up your claim with specific numbers and details of problems, or are you just spouting FUD?

    3. Re:The year of change by J.Y.Kelly · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well I had my first experience of Vista last night, setting up a 2GHz Celeron laptop a friend had just bought which came with Home basic.

      Whilst everything worked OK and actually looked pretty good I was hugely unimpressed with how slow it was. Opening an application like firefox took 20-30 seconds and logging a user in or out seemed to take forever. Also, even though vista came pre installed it went through innumerable setup routines when first booted (including at least 2 reboots) such that I could have done a linux install in the same amount of time it took me to get to a desktop.

      Were it not for my friend wanting to use a load of kids CDROMS on this machine I'd have swapped it over to linux in a heartbeat and they'd have had a much more usable machine.

    4. Re:The year of change by minus9 · · Score: 4, Funny

      A flawless operating system and no more problems with IE. This is truly a great day in history.

    5. Re:The year of change by tguyton · · Score: 2, Informative

      I had a similar experience a couple days ago. My friend had a brand new Thinkpad R61 with 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo and 2GB of RAM. He said he was having problems with his display and his network card. I booted up the system and was appalled by the fact that it took this new installation of Vista Home basic even longer to start than my 5 year old XP box. Now I've read all the "zOMG teh vista has popups on EVERY CLICK!" comments on /. and was pretty sure that much exaggeration was going on, but I quickly discovered that these comments were barely a stone's throw from reality. I'm very well aware that you can turn off all the popups, but for someone who's just trying to get a network card working on the first boot-up of the machine, it was extremely aggravating. On top of that, the machine was running unbelievably slow. There's no excuse for that - brand new installation, brand new machine - 2GB of RAM! I asked him how attached he was to Vista, and he said he wasn't - he would have chosen XP if there had been an option for it, and he'd just as soon have Linux. I put Ubuntu on there faster than you could blink and set him up with XP in VMWare for running Photoshop and things (yay art school). Ubuntu detected the native resolution for the display no problem. I had to do a little fiddling to get the network card working properly, but it didn't take any longer than five minutes. Long story short, Ubuntu saves the day again ftw! He can now do absolutely everything he needs and wants with his laptop, and it's running at a much more reasonable speed and required very little effort on either of our parts to get it that way.

    6. Re:The year of change by east+coast · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Suddenly it looks as though finally the innovation stranglehold that Microsoft has held over us for many years is coming to an end.

      There is no such thing as innovation stranglehold.

      I'm not saying Microsoft will go away, but cross-platform compatibility will become the rule, not the exception. It will be easy to choose whichever platform you like, without worrying about not being able to run half your applications. Freedom will be a realistic choice.

      Cross platform compatibility of what? As I see it Apple is the hold out here. Apple feels that virtualization is fine and good as long as it's not their OS. Do you know what sucks more then Microsoft's vendor lockin? Apple's hardware and software lockin. Don't act like the increase in Mac sales is making things better in the face of Apple's attitude towards third parties. If anything, computing would suck worse with Apple riding the high waves.

      I suppose it was really inevitable in the long run, but I am happy to see the walls finally cracking.

      Again, wait and see.

      First off, many products are big on initial release only to die a quick death. I will be confident of the Dell-Ubuntu thing in a couple of years. I don't know why people are expecting a pass or fail on this in the first 100 days. This isn't politics as much as some people make it out to be. It's a product.

      Secondly, don't start to think things have really made a turn without software support. Hardware has never been the hang up for Linux overall, at least not the lead hang up. Without software you can make a grade-A system and make it cheap and people will not hold on for long. Look at Atari and Amiga. Fantastic machines with a ton of potential. Where are they today? Oh, that's right, no one ever wrote software for them, for the most part.

      Lack of software support is stopping me from becoming a big Linux adopter. I run it as a VM only for right now.

      Maybe things will change. I'd go with it. But I'm not going on my own without a bit more happening first.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    7. Re:The year of change by JohnBailey · · Score: 2, Interesting

      well, yeah... he can... but except playing most modern games on it. so yeah... don't blow that balloon too much. Your post just shows how incompetent you are. My Vista 64bit running on 2GB RAM is working JUST FINE. I wonder when the FUD ever stops, I mean /.ers are supposed to be tech lovers but it seems that all they have is FUD and hate. Linux might be great and all, but nothing will be successful if it's built on spite. ...Now spice on the other hand, expands your conscienceness. (Only a true sci-fi fan will get me.) Thing is.. There are too many stories just like this kicking around just about any forum to ignore. Microsoft always seem to release software that is beyond the ability of most of the hardware at the time of release. They did it with their PDA stuff, they did it with XP I would imagine, and they definitly did it with Vista.

      Those who have had good experiences are either lucky that the combination of hardware they have is better supported and powerful enough, or they specifically combed forums and articles for any pitfalls they can avoid. If I was recommending an OS to anybody for a computer they were buying right now, I'd go for Linux or XP every time depending on the needs of the user. Vista.. no way. There are just too many gotchas right now. In a year or two when the hardware support is there and there are apps that will actually take advantage of Vista, then it would make sense, but for now, its too much pain when things go wrong.

      A computer capable or running Vista is going to be close enough to a gamer's PC of a year or two ago from what I've read, while Linux or XP can run happily on a half gig of memory and a modest cheap processor. Not everyone is a gamer, and those that are, are not always going to go for the latest graphics intensive frag fest that needs the latest video card and an insane amount of power. For an enthusiast, this isn't a problem, but for someone looking for a general purpose PC, its overkill.

      Slashdotters are tech lovers, but some of us are also realists. Computers are used for more than the latest games. Some people find a system that works reliably and is easy to fix when it does go wrong preferable to spending a significant amount of money on features that are not important to them. Spending $400 on a hot video card is pointless if the most demanding thing you do is a little photo retouching. And non slashdotters are often not interested in the tech, just getting the apps they have paid good money for continuing to work, and to be able to get their work done like they did before.
      --
      It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
    8. Re:The year of change by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is still a very long road ahead and it's going to be painful in many respects and it's still not a sure thing. When five or six major OEMs start to offer a linux distro and the demand stays I'll start to hope, but right now it is just too early to tell.

      The big OEMs are in bed with M$, I work for one of the biggest, not naming names...

      Their fear is the little guy that "loathes" M$ and wants to take M$ down,
      little guy IT has no MBA's to feed, no massive megalithic monster to maintain with
      giant building campus's and eletric bills the size of small stock offerings.

      There is a storm coming, and the $199 PC will just be the start of it.

      Mom and Pop home user often just want to do basic mundane open office like things,
      the web, and their stocks, etc etc.

      The malware/crapware/spyware that has plagued windows is known to be getting worse,
      and they have heard on linux is nearly non-existent from their linux/Mac using friends.

      Gamers recently found out that World of Warcraft run with Cedega on Linux...

      The worm has turned, ppl are sick of the lies, and FUD out of Redmond.

      33% Increase in MacIntosh sales in a quarter ????

      My opinion...Vista/Malware/Crapware/greed driven pricing are the biggest threat to M$, not Linux.

      They shot themselves in the foot, and they don't even get it....yet.

      Ex-MislTech

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
  3. Not surprising... by Psychopundit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Based on this guy's experience, it looks like they've already killed off one of the Ubuntu Inspiron notebooks (hopefully for something newer). http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/m essage?board.id=sw_linux&thread.id=11156

  4. Linux wins the low-cost computing game by paxmaniac · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Linux must exploit the low cost angle to get reasonable traction in the PC market. People are starting to realize that they don't actually need the latest and greatest hardware specifications to do 95% of what they want to do with a computer.

    The new $200 Asus EEE PC could provide a big boost for Linux if it takes off. The price point makes it extremely attractive as a transportible second computer, and it could find some big markets in schools and universities.

    Dell and Ubuntu (or other hardware manufacturers) could start a similar revolution in the desktop market with a very low cost and low specification machine. Especially if it is also compact and stylish.

    1. Re:Linux wins the low-cost computing game by kripkenstein · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, I think the $200 Asus EEE is more the way to go than cheap desktops. Laptops are already outselling desktops, so a mobile offering makes more sense to focus on.

      More specifically, the $200 Asus EEE and things like Intel's Mobile Internet Device may bring in a new era of computer use. (The iPhone can be seen as part of that trend, btw - a small, mobile internet-capable machine; also the Nokia Tablet.) The goal should be an affordable (sub-$300) device with an attractive design, that people can use for email, social networking, web browsing, etc. It could take off among college students, for example. In fact this may be the exact goal of Intel's MID partnership with Ubuntu.

    2. Re:Linux wins the low-cost computing game by lixee · · Score: 4, Funny

      A 200$ 7" 2Gb gadget is no match for the 150$ full-blown Medison celebrity machine. I also hear it comes with a spam-proof email client. Or was it scam-proof? I forget...

      --
      Res publica non dominetur
  5. Uhhh.. fuck off with your spin. by QuantumG · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Major vendor preinstalls Linux.. people are buying it.. all you have to contribute is negative doom-saying.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  6. Obligatory by halfloaded · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, but does it run... uhhh... Windows?

  7. Linux is variety by sykopomp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My main concern here is how much attention "smaller" linux distros, and possibly even other kernels and POSIX systems are going to receive when Ubuntu suddenly takes 99% of the linux userbase (or rather, makes it through new users). Will we actually see more stuff getting made that's easily compatible with all distros, or is ubuntu going to set up its own funky standardizing system that pushes any other given distro back weeks on releases?

    1. Re:Linux is variety by lixee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nonsense. The main problems Linux have are the lack of commercial software support and hardware drivers. If Ubuntu takes off (scratch that, it already did) it'll fix both problems and that's obviously not something distro-specific. Then you're forgetting about the GPL. Last but not least, Ubuntu is Debian based and there's no way the GNU zealot over at Debian (I mean that as a compliment) will ever bend to the will of a corp. EVER!

      I trust Mark. The guy transpires good faith. He's wasn't solely after money like Gates. He was the man with the vision (how long till we have nerd-cults dedicated to him?).

      --
      Res publica non dominetur
    2. Re:Linux is variety by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It might mean that every single mainstream linux app in the future is going to be developed exclusively in py. :-\

      Yeah, but I'm sure there's a downside too..

  8. Mandriva by SniperClops · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hope Mandriva gets a deal, they make the best distro IMHO. Everything just works on the desktop.

    1. Re:Mandriva by deftcoder · · Score: 2, Informative

      Debian offers 3 versions: a stable release (currently 'Etch'), a testing release (currently 'Lenny'), and an extremely bleeding edge release (which is always called 'Sid')

      Ubuntu is basically Debian Sid, but rebranded with Ubuntu artwork. Essentially, you're running Debian Sid if you use Ubuntu. (Interesting fact: Shuttleworth used to be a Debian developer/maintainer)

      Personally, I use the stable version of Debian on servers and other places where security/stability is paramount. But I use the testing version on desktops, where sacrificing very, VERY good security/stability for more up to date programs is more acceptable for me. I really dislike running the unstable release, as it's usually just that.

      --
      Peace sells, but who's buying?
  9. preconfigure by man_ls · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Dell produced a Linux Ubuntu PC configured to run with multiple monitors from the get-go, I'd buy it just to save myself the trouble.

    I'm so fed up of messing up xorg.conf and having to reconfigure it every time I reboot just to get video...

    1. Re:preconfigure by harris+s+newman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wha? 1) Why do you have to reboot? Ever? 2) Why do you need to change xorg.conf after the first time? Ever? 3) Are you running the live copy of ubuntu?

    2. Re:preconfigure by bmo · · Score: 2, Informative

      "A reboot is required only when you do a distro upgrade."

      No, a reboot is required much more often than a distro upgrade. An example of this would be a kernel security upgrade.

      --
      BMO

    3. Re:preconfigure by miro+f · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have always used nvidia cards.

      Since nvidia's 9xxx series of drivers, the graphical configuration utility allows you to hotplug monitors and set up dual head without touching xorg or even restarting the X server.

      it's a bit disappointing that the feature isn't there for users of other cards, but it appears X is going through some big changes and hopefully soon enough it will hit the 21st century...

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    4. Re:preconfigure by MMC+Monster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The bar is always rising. First it was "If Linux would install on my system painlessly...", then it was "If Linux could play popular media types, such as flash and mp3s...", then it was "If Linux could be sold by a national chain that could be trusted...", now it's "If Linux could work with multiple-monitors without configuration..."

      Linux has won. Easy multiple-monitor support is probably going to land in the next version of Ubuntu. Regardless, people will find something else to complain about.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
  10. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  11. Centos on former Ubuntu Dell by digitalhermit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm writing this on one of the original Dell Ubuntu laptops. A few days after receiving it, I wiped Ubuntu and put on Centos5 mainly to keep the same software that I use on my servers and other workstations. There was a small glitch in getting the wireless to work, but so far it's been perfect. The laptop hibernates properly, browses wirelessly and wired, and works properly. The annoying stuff that took some configuration were the media keys, MP3 and WMA video playback, and an issue with the sound kicking off and requiring a driver reload via KDE. This wasn't too tough for me to figure out, but I have some experience with Linux. I wouldn't recommend it for the Linux newbie, but heck, that's why it ships with Ubuntu.

    I'm not a big fan of Dell home systems (their business machines are much better built), but having a major vendor support Linux is a good thing regardless. By them supporting Linux fixes can get pushed to other systems. The glitches in the Intel 3945 wireless card will be worked out. Maybe the Broadcoms start working without ndiswrapper. Heck, ATI might come around and make a proper video driver set.

    I chose to buy this laptop precisely because the hardware is Linux compatible (well, except for the closed Nvidia drivers which are not too bad). If more people did this it gives an incentive for hardware manufacturers to release code and drivers for Linux. That helps everyone.

  12. Re:IMO by fractoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What did you want to use it for? It's done everything I've asked of it (internet browsing, playing media, WoW via Wine, editing documents). What further use do you want it to be? (honest, curious question)

    --
    Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  13. Dell got a big discount on Ubuntu by Alain+Williams · · Score: 2, Informative
    I have it on good authority that Michael took Mark out to dinner and negotiated a huge 80% discount on the list price of Ubuntu. This was on the basis of the discount that Bill gave him when he took him out to dinner.

    Now: 80% discount on $0 is ....

  14. Linux preinstalled is "no OS" or "Pirate Windows"? by Alkonaut · · Score: 2, Insightful
    What I'd like to know is how many of the boxes sold with preinstalled linux, actually get used as linux boxes.

    How many use it just to dodge the license cost, and just install their pirated windows copy? Any guesses? Is linux becoming the "no OS" choice available at other whitebox builders?

  15. A common API is the key by OzTech · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It isn't about the cost, it's about the software or in particular the desktop software and how easy it is to install and get running, although perhaps of more importance is the availability and range of software (ne: programs) available, and how reliable they are.

    As soon as Unix/Linux people realise this and look beyond their own nose (ne: favourite flavour of GNU/Linux), they will realise that the API is the real jewel. The reason that Microsoft beat IBM at its own game with the OS2/Windows war was because it won the API war. They convinced, or scammed (depending upon your point of view) programmers to write to the Win31 API and OS/2 was killed. Providing development tools such as Visual Basic and Access which removed the whole API schema just made their task a whole lot easier.

    Forget the fancy esoteric languages and "scripted" (ne: interpreted) tools, because they are not what is needed to wrestle the end user away from Windows. What is required is a common platform (display, communications, and file API's to name just a few). Sure, let the system level person choose between a Gnome or KDE desktop. Let them run either RedHat, Suse, or Ubuntu (insert flavour of the week) but provide a common interface to of them all via a simple and straight-forward API. Then provide the killer application development tools like Visual Basic and/or Access which will let newbie programmers write their killer app with no knowledge of computers or programming and then GNU/Linux may just stand a chance.

  16. Re:What is it about the Linux Desktop GUI that suc by SpiritGod21 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Honestly, I'm kind of surprised by your experience with Ubuntu. I was really anti-Ubuntu when I tried Edgy Eft (I learned after the fact that everyone thought Edgy sucked, but it was my first experience with Ubuntu) and it dive-bombed on 3 separate computers on me. However, loving Ubuntu's philosophy, I gave it a try on my laptop a few months after Feisty Fawn came out. Super fast, everything worked (wireless required some tweaks, but some nice guy had written a script that required nothing more than running it and clicking a button!), and I had Linux on a laptop with no troubles. Decided to try it at home and my desktop is faster than ever. It boots significantly faster than XP did, it's (of course) more secure, though I already had my XP install pretty locked down, and it's got all the many benefits of Linux. The GUI's fast and intuitive, my fiance figured out on her own how to import photos from our digital camera (simply by plugging it in; it just worked!) and how to navigate to upload them to Facebook, and I play World of Warcraft, Oblivion, and EVE-Online on it without a problem (most of the time >_> ). My experience with Feisty Fawn has been flawless, and I recommend it to everyone now.

    Maybe my system's just a bit faster to get over some threshold, but my laptop's 3 years old and nothing to brag about anymore (was a nice gaming laptop when I bought it). I'm guessing you had some hardware issue or, perhaps, were you using Edgy Eft? Feisty Fawn feels lightyears ahead of Edgy.

  17. Re:One teensy problem. by clodney · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To be price competitive, yes. To be competitive, no.

    In the Minneapolis area there are still a number of boutique system builders. Walk in, pick out a motherboard, case, processor, memory, etc., and either take it home or watch them build it for you.

    This is good on several levels. First, these people actually know what they are doing, and are capable of doing diagnostics and repairs. Second, a system you get from them is not bogged down with craplets and shovelware. Third is the whole immediate gratification factor.

    I can buy a brand new system cheaper from Dell than I can from these guys, but it won't have exactly the components I want, and if I am reusing some components of an existing system the local guys will come out ahead. They don't even charge me anything to integrate my existing components for reuse.

    There is still a market for the personalized service you get. Price is not everything, or Linux would have won by now.