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A Historical Look At The First Linux Kernel

LinuxFan writes "KernelTrap has a fascinating article about the first Linux kernel, version 0.01, complete with source code and photos of Linus Torvalds as a young man attending the University of Helsinki. Torvalds originally planned to call the kernel "Freax," and in his first announcement noted, "I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." He also stressed that the kernel was very much tied to the i386 processor, "simply, I'd say that porting is impossible." Humble beginnings."

173 comments

  1. No sooner had I finished compiling... by kaleco · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...than Gentoo using kernel 0.02 was made available.

    --
    Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
  2. Official kernel development strategy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "When the first kernel pops, then toss in about 1/2 cup of open source developers and shake vigorously until the popping dies down. You don't want to leave it on until you hear nothing, because then it's sure to be burnt."

  3. Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    that that Torvalds guys project never amounted to anything useful.

  4. That's it! by Constantine+XVI · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Instead of trying to convince Linus to go to GPL v3, we can just convince him to go back to the original liscence! :)

    This kernel is (C) 1991 Linus Torvalds, but all or part of it may be redistributed provided you do the following: - Full source must be available (and free), if not with the distribution then at least on asking for it. - Copyright notices must be intact. (In fact, if you distribute only parts of it you may have to add copyrights, as there aren't (C)'s in all files.) Small partial excerpts may be copied without bothering with copyrights. - You may not distibute this for a fee, not even "handling" costs. Mail me at [email blocked] if you have any questions. Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info.
    --
    "I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
    1. Re:That's it! by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You may not distibute this for a fee, not even "handling" costs. There's your show-stopper.
    2. Re:That's it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's your show-stopper. Yeah, I didn't really understand that clause. Charging to send around media even if the content is free has been pretty standard since forever I thought.
    3. Re:That's it! by MindStalker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Back in those days people were selling buckets of free software at high "fee" cost. Linus apparently didn't like this.

    4. Re:That's it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps it was a reaction to GNU selling GCC and Emacs for several hundred dollars?

  5. Re:"Humble beginnings" by Luke+Dawson · · Score: 1

    I don't agree. There are plenty of people out there who may be interested, but just never really got around to actually looking it up. I was like that for a long time - I used Linux way before I knew anything about its beginnings. So I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would find this interesting. And trust me, there are plenty of people out there who don't know squat about the Great War either.

  6. Linus even wrote a book about it by bomanbot · · Score: 5, Informative

    To get an even deeper look into the beginnings of the Linux Kernel, I like the book that Linus wrote which is called Just for Fun - The story of an accidental revolutionary (ISBN 1-58799-080-6, google the rest).

    It contains the entire back history how Linux began as a side project and of course the famous spat with Andrew Tanenbaum over Minix and Linux and I found it to be a good (if very nerdy) read.

    But the pictures in the article? Just sad, he reminds me so much of myself ;-)

    1. Re:Linus even wrote a book about it by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      But the pictures in the article? Just sad, he reminds me so much of myself ;-)

      Erm, what, an average looking white male? So sad.

    2. Re:Linus even wrote a book about it by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Erm, what, an average looking white male? A kind of ugly dork. Probably average for Slashdot, though.
  7. you insensitive clod by someone1234 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I didn't know about this (that the first kernel was completely i386 specific) and consider the article interesting.

    --
    Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  8. It's Also a Great Story by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone who cares already knows. Anyone who wants to find out, can find out. Well, that's not true, as it turns out, I care but I'm not afraid to admit I didn't know any of these things that Linus felt (having joined the game late, nor have I seen the documentation for the first release). And I don't go around looking at the history of software I use, I simply use the software. I use gcc but I'm not so sure its history would be that interesting to me.

    Come on, this is like doing a history of the First World War again, complete with photos of the Arch-Duke. I don't think that's a very good analogy. This wasn't really a history of the Linux kernel, more so a short intro to the attitude of the single point in the beginning. In my opinion, reading through this and scanning the attached documents would be more like if you had given me the first three pages of the Bible. "In the beginning, there was this guy that wasn't very sure anything would come of a project ..." This is a good article because I kind of always thought that Torvalds started Linux knowing it was going to be big. I imagined him sitting down one day and saying, "F this noise, I'm going to write an operating system that works ... and I'll distribute it for free!" ... except in Swedish?

    But that's not what happened and I think that's important for people to recognize. This was not unlike Frodo starting off on a quest thinking he wasn't going to get anywhere (though the motivation and implications are not so huge). It's the classic hero-by-accident story and since it's a true story, I love it all the more.

    You know, I always thought about writing to Paul Harvey (if he's still alive) and asking him to do a "And that's the rest of the story" on Linus. That would be some classic stuff. Although most the listeners, probably not even sure what Linux is let alone know its creator Linus, would probably think he's suffering from some form of dementia set on by age ...

    And it isn't something the is deserving of a place on this website! Are you kidding me? This actually makes me want to start some open source project even though I recognize it will probably go nowhere. Of course this belongs on this site.
    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:It's Also a Great Story by apathy+maybe · · Score: 1, Troll

      Linux.

      All the meaty goodness you could want, along with links to everything mentioned in the article (including the news groups, and all that other random crap).

      As well, if you do a Search for "linux history" (with or without the "), you get Linux the big picture, Linux History and a much better history then the one in the article, History of Linux (though not the first from the search result).

      Basically, the article is rehashing stuff that is very easily found, presenting it in a format that isn't even very interesting (a short blurb at the beginning and then a copy of all the other stuff..., sounds hard to do!) and leaves out a bunch of relevant information (such as all the GNU stuff that made it usable...)!

      --
      I wank in the shower.
    2. Re:It's Also a Great Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm. Every article that is linked from this site can be found elsewhere, so it doesn't belong here.

        stupid douchemitter

    3. Re:It's Also a Great Story by More_Cowbell · · Score: 1

      You know, I always thought about writing to Paul Harvey (if he's still alive) and asking him to do a "And that's the rest of the story" on Linus. That would be some classic stuff. Although most the listeners, probably not even sure what Linux is let alone know its creator Linus, would probably think he's suffering from some form of dementia set on by age ...
      Just thought you might like to know that Paul Harvey is still very much alive and still broadcasting his The Rest of the Story segments.

      And with 22 million listeners a week, I have a feeling a few of them may have heard of Linux - maybe even Linus. ;)

      --
      Experience teaches only the teachable. -AH
    4. Re:It's Also a Great Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kudos for getting Linus' native langage right. :) Which isn't a minor issue, his grandpa having been a fairly noteworthy poet in that language.

      (Although Finland-Swedish litterature is sadly somewhat neglected in Swedish culture)

      Swedish doesn't really have a word for 'fuck' though. In fact, it's a language quite poor in terms of sexual curses. It's mostly 'hell', 'shit' and a half-dozen variants of 'devil'. Finnish has a common sexual curse though, 'vittu'.

  9. Oh No! by MyLongNickName · · Score: 5, Funny

    He looks just like Bill Gates at that age!

    --
    See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    1. Re:Oh No! by F-3582 · · Score: 1

      Or like Stephen Hawking, looking at that one drunk photo ^^

    2. Re:Oh No! by Alzheimers · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    3. Re:Oh No! by jabjoe · · Score: 1

      They started out the same, but Linus looks like he's moved on more, and with out picking up the air of some one unpleasant....

    4. Re:Oh No! by dn15 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or like Stephen Hawking, looking at that one drunk photo ^^
      I was actually going to say the same thing but decided it was in poor taste.... Insensitive bastard.
  10. At least two people agree on 640kB by Centurix · · Score: 5, Funny
    From memory.c

    * NOTE 2!! When from==0 we are copying kernel space for the first
      * fork(). Then we DONT want to copy a full page-directory entry, as
      * that would lead to some serious memory waste - we just copy the
      * first 160 pages - 640kB. Even that is more than we need, but it
      * doesn't take any more memory - we don't copy-on-write in the low
      * 1 Mb-range, so the pages can be shared with the kernel. Thus the
      * special case for nr=xxxx.
    --
    Task Mangler
    1. Re:At least two people agree on 640kB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Same source:
      As the current opinion seems to be that 64 Mb is more than
      enough, but 64 tasks might be a little crowded,


    2. Re:At least two people agree on 640kB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And thus was born the development attitude toward memory management in Linux memory that continues to this day. What a mess. "OOM Killer" anyone? Or kswapd, there was a 10 year odyssey of suck.

  11. 5 most important OSS figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    This is my list of 5 most important open source software figures in the world.
     
    Linus Torvalds - Thanks for giving me Linux when I just couldn't live with Windows (my roots are in MS-DOS world). Computing became fun again when I loaded Suse Linux on my Pentium 200MHz 32MB computer in 1998. It was as much fun as it was back in the late 80s when I run my own BBS on my first PC.
     
    Richard Stallman - You opened up my eyes and I was thrilled with your ideology and I found you a charismatic leader. I couldn't believe it when I noticed you actually bothered to reply to my e-mail when I asked you something about X window system.
     
    Jordan Hubbard - Cool guy, not nerdy at all, take a look at pictures of him - you would never guess he's one of the world's leading kernel gurus. Thanks for giving us FreeBSD! Very cool OS back then when you were leading the project. You showed us all how one can become one of the world's leading gurus just by self studying hard.
     
    Eric Raymond - Your dedication to OSS is amazing and inspiring! Your novel "Cathedral and the bazaar" is nowadays considered a legendary book and it deserves to be. It is just so amazing book! Nobody else could probably describe hackers better than Eric does in his Jargon File.
     
    Arpad Gereoffy a.k.a. Arpi - Thanks for giving us MPlayer when there was no decent way to watch videos on Linux in 1999. Microsoft tried to dominate the video format market by introducing Windows only .asf format, but it was in no time MPlayer supported .asf files on Linux. I can still remember what it felt like. It felt amazing - almost better than sex.

    So, here are my heroes, how about yours?

    1. Re:5 most important OSS figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steve Balmer for referring to the GPL as a cancer....
      Any publicity is good publicity.
      People don't seem to be "dying" fromt he PL cancer do they.

    2. Re:5 most important OSS figures by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      I'd like to thank Bill Gates, for giving OSS an easy target to shoot at. Hey, ESR: put that gun away...no, you can't shoot him!

      Also to Guido van Rossum for giving us a fantastic language to play with.

      And to Miguel de Icaza for getting the GNOME project started

      And finally, to legendaries such as Ken Thompson, Dennis Ritchie, (the missing and presumed dead) Jim Gray, Brian Kernighan, and so many others -- you are the ones who inspired us to do this!

    3. Re:5 most important OSS figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Me. I am my own hero.

      Not because I designed one of the world's best kernels, or wrote the most popular FOSS license all around.

      But because I finally understood how MMU works. Because I learned what are: assembler, compiler and linker, and how to use them. Because when I saw an interesting project on sf.net, I didn't download the binary, but started browsing CVS. Because my sister is using KDE on Linux.

      These are small accomplishments, nothing really worthy YOUR attention. But to me, this is my life, my own little world, and I can do whatever I may want to do with it. All these little, beautiful things that make up one geek's life.

    4. Re:5 most important OSS figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Arpad Gereoffy a.k.a. Arpi - Thanks for giving us MPlayer when there was no decent way to watch videos on Linux in 1999. Microsoft tried to dominate the video format market by introducing Windows only .asf format, but it was in no time MPlayer supported .asf files on Linux. I can still remember what it felt like. It felt amazing - almost better than sex."

      Mplayer is the dog's bananas.
      I remember using a friends Windows box and wondering why I could not full screen some video formats, and not all videos would play with that player that comes with Windows.
      That was the first time I realised I'd lost touch with OS's outside Linux. :)

    5. Re:5 most important OSS figures by Gothmolly · · Score: 1, Funny

      You're gay.

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    6. Re:5 most important OSS figures by FinchWorld · · Score: 1
      So, here are my heroes, how about yours?

      Well, Homer Simpson started out...

      --
      "I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine." -Jack Thompson
    7. Re:5 most important OSS figures by eokyere · · Score: 1

      software freedom is law; so put eben moglen (and the rest of the staff, who work to tirelessly to maintain the freedoms we are able to build upon) up there somewhere

    8. Re:5 most important OSS figures by locokamil · · Score: 1

      Brian Kernighan is very much alive; he is currently teaching undergraduates at Princeton. I happened to stumble into one of his courses by accident while shopping around at the beginning of the semester (COS333), and stuck around for the entire class. I'm glad I did: the man's a treasure trove of UNIX stories and experience, and a great teacher and mentor to boot.

    9. Re:5 most important OSS figures by mashade · · Score: 1

      He was referring only to Jim Gray, I believe.

      --
      Technology tips and tricks.
    10. Re:5 most important OSS figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eric S. Raymond is massively overrated. He does not deserve a place on a list populated by the other four, all of whom are expert engineers.

      Remind me again what ESR's contribution has actually been? Some software that he's written? Perhaps a key part of a kernel, or an application that everyone uses? Or perhaps just a website full of crazy far-right ramblings?

      Whenever you hear ESR bragging about his own importance, think bullshit and post this link: http://people.ubuntu-in.org/~ghoseb/esr.html

      Then ask him to tell you about the time he became a paper millionaire through being on the board of VA Software and couldn't resist boasting about it everywhere. Millions of dollars buys a whole lot of guns, which will certainly come in useful when the homosexual terrorist communists invade.

    11. Re:5 most important OSS figures by locokamil · · Score: 1

      I lose at grammar. If only we could take back the dumb posts we make on Slashdot...

    12. Re:5 most important OSS figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recommend MPlayer to Windows and Mac users as being the only program that can (a) play almost every video format, and (b) doesn't require codec installation, which is invasive and difficult to undo. On Windows, codecs are basically synonymous with malware, so private codec libraries are a serious gain for both usability and security.

    13. Re:5 most important OSS figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure who I'd get rid of from your list, but I'd put {Kernighan and Ritchie} in there. C is the building block for so much of F/OSS.

    14. Re:5 most important OSS figures by SL+Baur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Richard Stallman - ... I couldn't believe it when I noticed you actually bothered to reply to my e-mail when I asked you something about X window system. Spamming for a donation to the League for Programming Freedom doesn't count.

      You have a strange list. You left out the most important kernel programmer ever - Ken Thompson, you also left out Dennis Ritchie (first C compiler, designer of the first Unix file system), and for promoting excellent modern programming practices and teaching us all how to program the right way - Brian Kernighan and PJ Plauger.

      And what about Larry Wall for Perl? John McCarthy for Lisp (say what you want about Lisp, but it's the only language that has survived with programming mindshare for over half a century)? The lead engineer of the group at IBM who wrote the first high level language compiler for Fortran, proving that assembly language wasn't the end-all for efficient programming? Donald Knuth for his programming books and TeX?
    15. Re:5 most important OSS figures by doom · · Score: 1

      Remind me again what ESR's contribution has actually been?

      • He wrote some decent reviews of SF novels for the sf-lovers usenet news group (search for "Raymond's Reviews")
      • He did a number of useful, grunt work things, like managing the termcap info (if I remember right)
      • He wrote the original version of the fetchmail utility (whose point I still haven't grasped, myself, and the later maintainers went out of their way to dis his original work on it, but there you go).
      • He wrote the "Cathedral" essay, which while over-hyped and now somewhat dated, actually did play an important historical role in the formation of the mozilla project, which led to firefox.
      • Oh, he wrote the original vc.el package for emacs, which I think is PFC myself.

      That's about it, off the top of my head. Someone else can handle the list of irritating quirks that have created so many ESR-haters...

  12. uh huh by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a poster in my office with all the lines of code for kernel 0.0.1. It's uber-geek. A must have for most slashdotters!

    --
    The game.
    1. Re:uh huh by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      How about the kernel source HTML'd into looking like a penguin?

      http://www.itsjustcrap.com/penguin.html

      Not sure what kernel version it is... there are other peoples names in it, so it certainly isn't 0.01 ....

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    2. Re:uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So where do we get one?

    3. Re:uh huh by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 1

      I can't find it anywhere online. I'm pretty sure it was a gimme from Redhat.

      --
      The game.
    4. Re:uh huh by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      That page uses font tags to do the colouring, and doesn't seem to close ANY of them, so FF gives up on rendering it after a few lines.

    5. Re:uh huh by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      Yup. Works in Mozilla fine, and IE (had to check on a cow-orkers comp). I really need to get a print of it made somehow....

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    6. Re:uh huh by ddusza · · Score: 1

      Opera seems to like it also.

      --
      Don't fear the penguins
    7. Re:uh huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a mans browser!! IE cares not for your petty HTML standards!

  13. Re:"Humble beginnings" by Slackus · · Score: 0

    Why are there so many trolls on slashdot, I see so many negative posts lately that it's becoming a drag to even read the comments. I for one enjoyed the article.

  14. Re:"Humble beginnings" by ttnb · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Anyone who cares already knows. Anyone who wants to find out, can find out.

    I'm not interested in learning the history of everything -- I'm just interested in learning the history of events that can teach me significant lessons, e.g. by inspiring me (starting humble can work out really well if there is significant demand and an empowering license like the GPL is used) or by warning of dangers.

    Therefore, articles like this are important to me. I wouldn't know to look for this particular bit of history if it weren't for people pointing out that this is a worthwhile bit of history to read up on.

    (In this particular instance, I knew already, but only because I came across an article on the same topic some time ago. Nevertheless I'm appreciating the reminder.)

  15. Re:"Humble beginnings" by skoaldipper · · Score: 1

    Nothing to compile here. Move along.

    In all seriousness, this article is one of the better linux history pieces I've seen as well. Personally, the first picture of Linus bears a striking resemblence to a young Jerry Lewis - the second one of a slumped over Dean Martin after a martini.

    --
    I hope, when they die, cartoon characters have to answer for their sins.
  16. Re:"Humble beginnings" by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 1

    Uhm, depends on how long you've been frequenting slashdot...

    Not only that, I knew the story even before knowing slashdot. In days long gone, it was pretty much included in every Linux book you could buy. This is pretty much "required general knowledge" for anyone being in Computer Sience or IT.

  17. Re:"Humble beginnings" by mce · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, I was there back then (read my sig) and yet even so I enjoyed the trip down Linux memory lane while going through this article. Sure, this is not top-quality journalism, but if you don't want to read it, then don't.

    Slashdot is not anymore what to used to be when I joined (look at my /. id to see what I mean), but even so I still use it as my home page on my home boxen. If there's stuff that I don't want to read, I simply don't.

    PS: I happen to be interested in military history as well. So yes, I do still read stuff about WWI, archduke included, even after so many years. In fact, your mentionaing of it just caused me to read what Wikipedia says about Franz Ferdinand.

  18. Re:"Humble beginnings" by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 2, Informative

    Besides, for those too lazy to read up the history of Open Source and Linux, just watch Revolution OS. Features Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds, Bruce Perens, Eric Raymond and many more.

  19. RMS not an "open source figure" by ttnb · · Score: 1
    This is my list of 5 most important open source software figures in the world. ... Richard Stallman

    Richard Stallman doesn't agree with being called an "open source software figure" or with being considered part of the "open source movement". The "open source" movement is a fork of the "free software" movement started by Richard Stallman. Although "open source software" is practically identical to "free software" for just about all practical purposes, the fundamental philosophy of the Open Source Initiative differs significantly enough from the viewpoint of Stallman's Free Software Foundation (FSF) that the FSF will, if participating at all at "open source" events, put up a big "we're not part of the open source movement!" banner. A good discussion of the difference between "open source" and "free software" from the FSF's perspective is here.

    1. Re:RMS not an "open source figure" by srpatterson · · Score: 1

      You are RMS AICMFP :)

      --
      -- The Heineken Uncertainty Principle: You can never be sure how many bears you had last night.
    2. Re:RMS not an "open source figure" by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 1

      He can claim his name is GNU/ Stallman and it doesn't matter. He's associated with Open Source in the mind of the public to the extent that the public is even aware of him. Whether or not Open Source is a fork of Free Software is debatable. However, it is logically correct to call Free Software a subset of Open Source Software.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
    3. Re:RMS not an "open source figure" by ttnb · · Score: 1
      However, it is logically correct to call Free Software a subset of Open Source Software.

      Well, if you start with the assumption that the set of Free Software is identical to the set of Open Source Software (which is approximately true), you can derive as a logical conclusion that it is a subset, yes. However, making that statement is very misleading, as it gives the impression of Free Software somehow being a special case of Open Source Software.

      Initially and for seveal years (I don't know exactly when they changed that), the Open Source Initiative described itself as "a marketing program for free software" and as a "pitch for 'free software' on solid pragmatic grounds rather than ideological tub-thumping". These quotes are from their "Frequently Asked Questions about Open Source" document which used to be available quite prominently on their website. You can still find a copy here.

  20. How would one build this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How would one build this kernel? What else did Linus need to have this kernel running on his system? It would be fun to build and boot this in a VM. It's so small I can almost understand it. :)

    1. Re:How would one build this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is bootstrapped through minix.

    2. Re:How would one build this? by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

      I'm glad someone mentioned Minix. Whatever happened to that and why didn't it get the same level of interest as Linux?

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    3. Re:How would one build this? by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

      Forget my last question. Why didn't I bother to Google first - it's all there.
      Be nice if /. had a 'delete my dumb post' button.

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    4. Re:How would one build this? by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It got quiet a bit of interest, but was hampered by two major issues initially.

      First, it wasn't free software. It was shared source, you could obtain the source after buying a copy and share that source with others who had also bought a copy, but you couldn't just modify it and pass on your modifications to anyone who wanted. That extra step of "Receiver must already have a license" was an issue, and reduced the number of experimenters and tinkerers drastically. GNU/Linux has achieved much of its popularity through the ability of virtually anyone who has a copy to pass on that copy to others, with freely downloadable LiveCDs and other ways to be exposed to it with little commitment on your part.

      The other was that it was (usually, at least in x86) 16 bit. Applications generally ran in 64k memory spaces (albeit different spaces for code and data.) This severely limited the available functionality.

      Linus, in part, wrote the first Linux kernel to try to overcome the second issue. By using Linux + the GNU toolchain instead of Minix, you had a full blown 32 bit operating system. Things like the X11 Windowing System suddenly became possible. His eventual adoption of the GPL also gave Linux users the freedom needed to ensure they could build a much bigger community around that kernel than Minix was able to achieve.

      Today, Minix version 3 is available as free software, and in 32 bit form, but it happened too late to stop the GNU/Linux juggernaut from rolling right over it.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:How would one build this? by Burnhard · · Score: 1

      Yep I used Minix at Uni - modified the memory manager to use a different allocation algorithm! I was going to ask the same question - why did Linux take off the way it did?

    6. Re:How would one build this? by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well I think that is a bit unfair.
      Minix and Linux where different proposes in mind from the start. I would consider them be both be highly successful.
      Minix was included with a text book. Minix was written to teach students how a Unix like OS worked so they could learn how write operating system code! Minix was very portable, clearly written, and would even run on an 8088 and 68000. It's technical limitations where just a logical trade off.
      Requiring people to own the book to have the OS was probably a mistake but My guess is that the author wanted to prevent people from reselling Minix. Plus he really wanted people to buy his book.
      Linux was some guy that wanted to write a free Unix Kernel for his 386 and he didn't care if it worked on anything but a 386 or frankly anything but his own computer.
      Frankly at that time I and everybody else was waiting for the real free UNIX that the GNU project was going to write. The future was going to be GNU Unix and it was going to be a state of the art micro kernel based UNIX like OS. Of course the future doesn't really feel obligated to follow our plans.
      Minix was a brilliant success. How many of the early Linux Kernel developers read Operating Systems: Design and Implementation by Andrew S. Tanenbaum?
      I would say that Minix it did it's job very well.

      Now Minix3 is a very new project. Frankly I find it very interesting. It is micro kernel and it runs drivers in user space. The goal is to create self healing OS. AKA a driver crashing will not take out the OS.
      It uses BSD instead of the GPL which I am beginning to favor because of what I consider the bad spirited anti-Tivo clauses in GPLV3.
      I really hope that Minix3 does get the attention that it deserves. Just as I hope the OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyBSD, and Linux continue to grow and thrive.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    7. Re:How would one build this? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 1

      ``Today, Minix version 3 is available as free software, and in 32 bit form, but it happened too late to stop the GNU/Linux juggernaut from rolling right over it.''

      Not to mention that Minix 3 development still happens mostly behind closed doors, and actually using the system requires carefully stepping around all the pitfalls. It may have a great design, but development and implementation are still somewhat lacking.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    8. Re:How would one build this? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Informative

      ``Plus he really wanted people to buy his book.''

      He, or the publisher. IIRC, it took quite some convincing on Andy's part to actually allow Minix to be distributed by third parties at all.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    9. Re:How would one build this? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I really don't know but I stand by my opinon that Minix did exactly what was expected of it. I helped educate people that went on to write Operating Systems. One of which is Linux.
      Besides I don't know him well enough to call him Andy. But I would love to meet him.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    10. Re:How would one build this? by dhasenan · · Score: 1

      When it appeared, the BSDs were in court with the Santa Cruz Organization. SCO used a lot of BSD-copyrighted work; the BSD kernel used about six files full of assembly from the old, old Bell Labs UNIX kernel; when SCO sued BSD386, it was revealed that they were suing in regards to intellectual property that mostly belonged to other people.

      But in that period, about 1990-1994, the future of BSD UNIX was rather shaky, so adoption slowed. In stepped Linux, built completely from scratch, guaranteed not to have copyright issues. And being released under the GNU license rather than the BSD license, academics and FSFers alike (though there wasn't a Free Software Foundation yet) were able to submit code to it without feeling guilty.

    11. Re:How would one build this? by Raenex · · Score: 1

      You're a very frank person.

  21. Note the mention of GNU by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yup, GNU Mach was well into development BEFORE Linux was even written. This is an example why open source projects are more effective when they're driven by pragmatism and not politics.

    1. Re:Note the mention of GNU by DrXym · · Score: 2, Informative

      Correction GNU Hurd.

    2. Re:Note the mention of GNU by sayfawa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe if the GNU folks had only been working on a kernel instead of also doing the hundreds of other programs as well, they would have made more headway with HURD. And if Linus had been trying to do a whole OS and not just the kernel, Linux the kernel would still be early in development.

      The mention of GNU should merely point out how important the GNU is in GNU/Linux. As Linus said in the post: Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft.

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    3. Re:Note the mention of GNU by ajs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe if the GNU folks had only been working on a kernel instead of also doing the hundreds of other programs as well, they would have made more headway with HURD. And if Linus had been trying to do a whole OS and not just the kernel, Linux the kernel would still be early in development. Very doubtful.

      First off, keep in mind that originally, Linux was aimed at being more on-par with Minix than Hurd. Linus would have written it even if the Gnu folks didn't exist, though it would have been written with pcc instead of gcc. Early on, he didn't have or even target creating a "whole OS", just a terminal server.

      The mention of GNU should merely point out how important the GNU is in GNU/Linux. Every time I hear "GNU/Linux", I have to chuckle. It's a bit like Pittsburgh demanding that Ford vehicles be called Steel/Ford. It's the ultimate example of RMS's hubris, and frankly I find it unfortunate, since most of his fundamental ideas are not unreasonable, just his ego and his behavior.
    4. Re:Note the mention of GNU by DrXym · · Score: 0, Troll
      Maybe if the GNU folks had only been working on a kernel instead of also doing the hundreds of other programs as well, they would have made more headway with HURD. And if Linus had been trying to do a whole OS and not just the kernel, Linux the kernel would still be early in development.

      This is a poor excuse. Linux went from nothing to a whole operating system in an extremely short space of time. Sure it used GNU tools which makes it all the more curious why GNU Hurd managed to go nowhere. Weren't those same tools available to the Hurd kernel too? One could also ask what's Hurd's excuse SEVENTEEN YEARS AFTER STARTING that it still isn't a viable alternative to Linux?

      The mention of GNU should merely point out how important the GNU is in GNU/Linux. As Linus said in the post: Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft.

      Lots of things are important to Linux, not just GNU tools. The insistence by some that it be called GNU/Linux is absurd. If you took away the parts that are not GNU, not copyright FSF, it would be wallowing in obscurity just like the Hurd.

    5. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Peaker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The purpose of the GNU work is to make people aware of Freedom-related issues.

      Saying Stallman insisting on calling it GNU is hubris is funny, when you consider that its not Stallman who named it after his first name.

      Its reasonable to request distributions that are heavily based on Linux and GNU to mention GNU in their name.

      I would also think it is reasonable for a huge codebase such as KDE to request that, too. For example, "Kubuntu" for short, and "A KDE frontend to a GNU/Linux system" for long.

      Calling it "Kubuntu Linux" (or "Redhat Linux") despite that simple request is not "illegal" or even not legitimate, but it is not very considerate of the many people who contributed to GNU in the hopes of raising awareness to the GNU project and software Freedom.

    6. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is an example why open source projects are more effective when they're driven by pragmatism and not politics.

      The problem is that politics is interested in you even if you're not interested in it. The pragmatic approach involves taking politics into account even if you're personally bored to tears by the subject.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    7. Re:Note the mention of GNU by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > when you consider that its not Stallman who named it after his first name.

      Nor did Linus, if you'd even bothered to read the summary.

      Despite RMS's handwavings about Linux merely dropping some trivial kernel piece into the otherwise completed GNU system, the reality is that the Linux people did a lot of work in getting the glibc and binutils toolchain working for it. RMS has to this day not acknowledged any of their work in doing so. I think it's more RMS's failure to reciprocate that has more to do with it. He who demands respect the loudest is usually afforded the least.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    8. Re:Note the mention of GNU by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 1
      GNU Mach, GNU Hurd, actually you are both right:

      The GNU Hurd is the GNU project's replacement for the Unix kernel. The Hurd is a collection of servers that run on the Mach microkernel to implement file systems, network protocols, file access control, and other features that are implemented by the Unix kernel or similar kernels (such as Linux).
    9. Re:Note the mention of GNU by gowen · · Score: 1

      Yeah. All those GNU guys managed to complete were a compiler that supports 20-odd languages, a shell, the full set of portable, POSIX-compatible UNIX tools (sed, awk etc), a cross-platform plotter, a PostScript interpreter, a chess engine, a complete system for internationalisation, a C library ... oh, and about 5,000 other applications and tools.

      And they only wrote those since they were all needed to compile Emacs.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    10. Re:Note the mention of GNU by ajs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The purpose of the GNU work is to make people aware of Freedom-related issues. Ah... look, young'un... GNU was founded to create a system that wouldn't restrict people's ability to use it to its fullest, which many of the people involved early on, including Stallman, felt needed to involve the ability to read, modify and distribute source code. It was not some sort of "sowing the seeds of freedom among the heathens," effort.

      Saying Stallman insisting on calling it GNU is hubris is funny, when you consider that its not Stallman who named it after his first name. Wherein my example is quite apt... We could say that it's horrible hubris of Ford to have named his company after himself... really, the so-called "Ford" was a result of the tremendous advances made in the previous 20 years by the Steele industry. It's only fair for such a misguided naming to be corrected by the "Steele/Ford Motor Company."

      No. People name things, not to ascribe merit, but in order to provide them with a label. Linux was named Linux. Why it was named Linux is irrelevant, that's it's name.

      Its reasonable to request distributions that are heavily based on Linux and GNU to mention GNU in their name. Not at all.

      I would also think it is reasonable for a huge codebase such as KDE to request that, too. For example, "Kubuntu" for short, and "A KDE frontend to a GNU/Linux system" for long. Great. Enjoy booting your GKXMITBSDBunnix. Bottom line: a name is a label, not a laundry list of ingredients.
    11. Re:Note the mention of GNU by zlogic · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to troll, but I think GNU doesn't release as many code as it used to. For example, Emacs 22 was promised to be released somewhere in 2005 and it went out of beta only in 2007. Meaning that the stable version dumped GTK1.x (the one without font antialiasing) mere months ago.
      Or GNU Bison, which can produce C and C++ code, but the C++ version is unable to grow the symbol stack because the C++ new/delete operators don't play nice with C realloc. The developers promised to fix this "hopefully some time in the future". And forks (non-GNU), like bison++ don't even support GLR parsing (which is much more powerful than LALR). I don't understand this - someone bothered to port a language parser to C++ and yet was unable to write an array resizing function? Even a slow, crappy version would be better than bison simply failing with a "memory exhausted" error.

    12. Re:Note the mention of GNU by DrXym · · Score: 1
      Who is saying GNU software sucks? I'm not. I'm just pointing out the bleeding obvious which is the GNU Hurd has been an abject failure at creating an operating system, in no small part because in the past 17 years it still has not produced a viable distribution. If this amorphous blob that you call the "GNU guys" is so great, why can't they produce a kernel to compete with Linux? What is it that Linux has that they don't? I'll tell you - PRAGMATISM. Which is what I said in the first place.

      It's also notable that it's not the first time the "GNU guys" have had a kick up the rear end to get moving. GNU cc and emacs are other examples of a projects mired in politics and glacial development. At least gcc got shaken up by the egcs fork because that was a millstone hanging around Linux for quite some time as well.

    13. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Braino420 · · Score: 1
      He has also said other things on the topic. From Revolution OS:

      Interviewer:

      -If some people asked you to describe this GNU/Linux, I mean, what's your thought about this, does that justify, or...
      Linus Torvalds:

      -Well, I think it's justified, but it's justified if you actually make a GNU distribution on Linux. The same way that I think that Red Hat Linux is fine, or SuSE Linux, or Debian Linux, because if you actually make your own distribution of Linux, you get to name the thing. But calling Linux in general GNU/Linux, I think it's just ridiculous.
      --
      They call me the wookie man, I guess that's what I am
    14. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Braino420 · · Score: 1

      This is a poor excuse. Linux went from nothing to a whole operating system in an extremely short space of time. Sure it used GNU tools which makes it all the more curious why GNU Hurd managed to go nowhere. Weren't those same tools available to the Hurd kernel too? One could also ask what's Hurd's excuse SEVENTEEN YEARS AFTER STARTING that it still isn't a viable alternative to Linux?
      You got modded a troll because you don't read before you write.
      --
      They call me the wookie man, I guess that's what I am
    15. Re:Note the mention of GNU by TrekkieGod · · Score: 1

      The mention of GNU should merely point out how important the GNU is in GNU/Linux.

      I don't think anyone ever claimed GNU software isn't an important part (even perhaps the most important part) of distributions everywhere. My beef with GNU/Linux is the ridiculous emphasis on a name. I don't go around saying, "I'm running Microsoft Windows". I say, "I'm running Windows." And people who run mac os x don't say, "I'm running mach/mac os x". I also use a bunch of stuff that's not GNU. Do I need to start including those in the name too?

      Feel free to remind people that their distro would be useless without gnu tools. Stop correcting people when they say they're running Linux. They're not lying, they ARE running Linux. They ARE running a Linux distro in the sense that the distro uses linux as a kernel. The fact that the distro also happens to include massive amounts of gnu tools is important but it doesn't mean people need to change what they want to call the thing. Geez...I thought the GPL frowned upon advertisement clauses...

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    16. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And if Linus had been trying to do a whole OS and not just the kernel

      Bah. What else is there to OS than kernel (in case of "monolithic" architecture, that is)?

    17. Re:Note the mention of GNU by crucini · · Score: 1

      Its reasonable to request distributions that are heavily based on Linux and GNU to mention GNU in their name.

      Not really. GNU is effectively dead, and was never very alive to begin with. Linux killed it. The only reason the GNU moniker is attached to some parts of Linux is historical. If GNU had not been around before Linux, the libc and utils would have been written just for Linux. Do you doubt that there was sufficient talent and energy in the Linux community to do that?

      Have you seen Ulrich Drepper's comments on RMS's behavior? Point is, the people actually writing the valuable code did not always think of it as "GNU". They wrote userland code for this awesome OS called Linux, and they accepted the convention of calling it "GNU".

      And I'm sure you know that the compiler we call GCC did not originate within GNU. So RMS had historical value as a standard-bearer to rally around in the dark times, but today there is no reason to let him stamp his logo on Linux.

      RMS's vision did not succeed. The GNU OS never came to be. He did not have the programming or leadership skills to realize his dream of a free Unix clone.

      Linus did, and that's why the OS is named after him.
    18. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Peaker · · Score: 1

      Linus did, and that's why the OS is named after him.


      Linus didn't. He wrote a kernel.

      The free unix clone was a combination of Linux and GNU code and others. Sure, they could have written it, maybe. But they didn't.
      And GNU had a lot more LOCs/work put into it than the Linux kernel, especially years ago when the name debate started. So it would make sense to name the entire unix clone you compose according to the name of the largest/most significant contributor, doesn't it? In that case, GNU was definitely it, at least in those days.

    19. Re:Note the mention of GNU by DrXym · · Score: 1
      No, I got modded a troll because someone doesn't like the truth. Or are you seriously going to claim that Hurd is a viable alternative to Linux?

      Linux went from nothing, to running a bash shell, to a fully functioning OS using the same tools available to the Hurd. The reason was a "get it done" attitude and not worrying or caring about politics. Pragmatism in other words.

    20. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Raenex · · Score: 1

      The reason was a "get it done" attitude and not worrying or caring about politics. Agreed. Worse is better. In his announcement, Linus talks about all the dirty hacks he used, and how non-portable the program was. And yet eventually it became ported nearly everywhere.
    21. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Braino420 · · Score: 1

      That's fine if you won't read the link; but my point was that HURD wasn't done when Linux was because it was a more complex implementation. It wasn't because of some imaginary scenario you made up in your head.

      --
      They call me the wookie man, I guess that's what I am
    22. Re:Note the mention of GNU by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Actually I'm quite familiar with Hurd having forlornly checked for progress multiple times over the years. Claiming it was a more complex implementation is a weak excuse back then and a pathetic one 17 years on. I know from experience from developing QNX apps that it was quite possible to produce a production quality microkernel even back then. While I was programming QNX, Linux went from nothing to full blown distributions. GNU Hurd.... didn't. I remember installing a Slackware dist for the first time and being blown away by its completeness.

    23. Re:Note the mention of GNU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For example, Emacs 22 was promised to be released somewhere in 2005 and it went out of beta only in 2007. Meaning that the stable version dumped GTK1.x (the one without font antialiasing) mere months ago.
      You are a fucking LIAR. GNU Emacs has never supported Gtk 1.
  22. Linus's middle name.... by Danathar · · Score: 1

    I had no idea it was Benedict. I've not seen that elsewhere, must not be something he likes ;)

    "From: Linus Benedict Torvalds [email blocked]"

    1. Re:Linus's middle name.... by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      Or something he doesn't care about, and nobody decided it was important enough to make fun of.

      I went by my middle name for the first 18 years of my life, but chose to go with my first name instead for various reasons. Hardly anyone except my family knows my middle name, and it's not because I don't like it. It's just not important enough to announce to everyone I meet, let alone the entire world.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Linus's middle name.... by Soruk · · Score: 1

      Some university systems set your email From: line to have your full name (as they have it) and don't let you change it, and they make you jump through all sorts of hoops with the sysadmins if you wanted to change it even for legit reasons (being known by your middle name, wanting to drop the middle name altogether or reduce it to an initial), presumably to stop people's outgoing email looking like it fell out of an IRC server.

      --
      -- Soruk
  23. Well by akkarin · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Oh, Linux will *never* have a fan base. Never. Ever. Period."
    - Bill Gates

    --
    This sig left intentionally blank.
  24. Re:"Humble beginnings" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Slashdot is not anymore what to used to be when I joined For a lot of us that's because we are no longer young, we are no longer ready to believe anything, we no longer have people throwing money annd offices with comfy chairs at us for knowing how to use a shell and a scripting language. Linux and technology and the world in general aren't as fun as they were, because we got old.

    Hell, even Dennis Miller somehow became a cranky old right wing blowhard when I wasn't looking. The world has moved on.
  25. fairytale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones."

    ...and so the userbase of said operation system remained small and unprofessional and everybody lived happily ever after.*

    *to be added to "famous last words posted on Slashdot"

  26. Re:History of GCC by gr8_phk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I use gcc but I'm not so sure its history would be that interesting to me.
    I'm no historian, but I think the origin of GCC is very interesting. When RMS started the GNU project, he was not a compiler guy. He had written system tools, but never a compiler. He recognized that any free operating system (GNU in particular) would require a free compiler and that this was a requirement, not an option. So he sat down and wrote the first GCC himself. It wasn't something he wanted to do, but it was fundamental to his vision so he did it anyway. That speaks to his insight, ability, and dedication. Most important was the insight. Imagine where GNU/Linux would be today if it had to rely on commercial compilers. Yep, that's right - it wouldn't exist.

    Also, there is much discussion about GCC transitioning to GPLv3 license. Apparently once the 4.3 branch is released, 4.2 will no longer be maintained under GPLv2. I believe this is because the FSF knows the compiler is fundamental and the license change is so important they don't really want patches contributing to the version under the old license.

  27. More than just a kernel by sepluv · · Score: 4, Informative
    just as a preemptive strike against all the Linus-entirely-made-the-OS-himself trolls before they come out of the woodwork, here is the last paragraph of section 2 from the announcement in the TFA. Torvalds says it better than I could:

    Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info.
    --
    Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
    [This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
  28. Re:"Humble beginnings" by baldass_newbie · · Score: 0, Troll

    Ob. 'You must be new around here'

    Seriously, half the time the trolls are the entertainment.
    I mean, do you really give a shit about 15+ year old kernels and a goofy looking European?
    Seriously.

    --
    The opposite of progress is congress
  29. Re:"Humble beginnings" by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

    That book that Torvalds co-wrote is pretty good. I think it's called "Just for fun". Great read.

  30. Embarassing change of context by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Am I the only one twisted enough to have fixed for a moment on the once perfectly innocent sentence : "Could someone please try to finger me from overseas?"... :)

  31. Linus was wrong by phrostie · · Score: 1

    never let it be said that Linus is never wrong. good thing too ;-)

  32. Ready? by bollucks · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...and it was almost ready for the desktop.

    1. Re:Ready? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 2, Informative

      ``...and it was almost ready for the desktop.''

      At the time, it sort of was. Remember, this was the age of DOS. I don't know how much you could actually do with Linux at the time, but GNU was already a vastly more featureful system than DOS. When the first Linux distribution came out (Slackware, 1993), it sported all the glory of the GNU system, a GUI (XFree86), the ability to run DOS, and, if I recall correctly, even some support for running win16 (remember, Windows 95 wasn't out yet) programs.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    2. Re:Ready? by kat_skan · · Score: 1

      Eh, not really. I was just getting into PCs at this time, so my memory is a little fuzzy, but a little digging finds WordPerfect was already at version 5.1 and Lotus 1-2-3 at Release 3. Those were pretty much the killer apps for the platform, and versions of Windows that supported virtual 8086 mode had been available for some time, so you could run them in tandum.

      Besides that, dBase IV and FoxPro were out, plus Borland's Turbo C++ and Turbo Pascal, and even an early version of Visual Basic. Thre was a DOS port of The Print Shop out--dunno how big this was on DOS, but I do recall plenty of banners printed on fan-fold paper in schools and all sorts of little businesses during the 80's. This was also about when Apogee and Epic were getting started with their shareware games.

      A Unix system with just the compiler toolchain and shell utilities doesn't really hold a candle to that.

    3. Re:Ready? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      Toolkit for Linux CD-ROM (May 1994)
      The new Toolkit for Linux CD-ROM from Walnut Creek features the sunsite.unc.edu archive and the ALPHA and BETA directories from the tsx-11.mit.edu archive. Distributions include Slackware 1.2.0 and MCC. Also includes Xfree86 2.1 and 1.3, tcl/tk, gcc2.4.5, libc4.4.4, emacs 18.58 and 19.22, GNU Ada, lisp, Prolog, Fortran, rexx, Eiffel and more.

      It came out just in time to save me from Windows hell.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    4. Re:Ready? by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      Slackware was NOT the first distribution. It was based on ONE of the first distributions (SLS) though. The first distribution I ran was called LGX in it's first release, for Linux Gnu Xwindow, which in later releases was called Yggdrasil Linux. The LGX distribution that I have was the first commerical release of a Linux (kernel 0.99.13) on CD. It will probably one-day be a valuable collector's item. I don't think I can even run it anymore. It booted off a CD attached to a Sound Blaster Pro, and I don't think it has boot support for IDE CDROMs.

      Those were the days, when a 'bug' in the installer made it difficult to install because it wanted to install all 600+ megs.

    5. Re:Ready? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ``Slackware was NOT the first distribution. It was based on ONE of the first distributions (SLS) though.''

      Thank you for pointing that out!

        -- RAMMS+EIN

    6. Re:Ready? by serutan · · Score: 1

      I was gonna say, "Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of 386s running this!" but no.

  33. Re:History of GCC by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hate to tell you this but GCC wasn't the first free compiler. It wasn't even the first c compile.
    There was the Small c compiler that dates back all the way to 1980. There was also the DICE compiler for the Amiga written by Matt Dillon of FireflyBSD fame that was from around the same time frame.
    Now GCC is leaps and bounds ahead of those compilers today but without if RMS hadn't written GCC frankly I think Somebody would have like Matt Dillon maybe.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  34. Ah, the good old days...accounting by wandazulu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Because I was a computer-room assistant back in college I got a couple of Unix accounts (that's what they were called) to learn and possibly help the grad students who were doing all the "cool" stuff on them (as opposed to showing a freshman how to print from WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS (F7 baby!)). The problem with the Unix machines (a SunOS and an Ultrix box) was that they both had accounting turned on and so I had $5000 of computer time to use until I had to go back and ask for more, which they actually gave only begrudgingly. I guess some departments really paid some $$$ for access.

    Anyway, along comes Linux (not .01 but some very pre-1.0 version) and somebody else put it on a Gateway2000 486 machine) and all of a sudden I had, along with all the other assistants, a Unix-like machine we could call our own, do whatever we want and not worry about screwing up the "real" work being done. So when it came to learning how the Unix-world worked, I learned far more on that early Linux box than either SunOS or Ultrix if only because I didn't have to deal all the accounting stuff.

    The funny thing is that I remember feeling that the Linux box responded better than the Sun machine or the VAX in that it seemed to handle more users better (though I suppose on the Linux box we were just mucking about with standard commands instead of doing heavy-duty work).

    1. Re:Ah, the good old days...accounting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you went to CMU like I did, you wouldn't have had to beg like that. We had labs of DECstations and SUN workstations with monster-sized graphics display, and even a lab of Next cubes, with relative ease of getting at them without much contention/waiting. ;-)

      We still had to pay for laser print-outs, though. This was early '90s. OTOH, never even heard of Linux at that time. What for, we had "real" UNIX (and MACH) at our finger tips.

  35. Not true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, I'm not gay. I'm 100% heterosexual. I'm just a person who has the courage to show emotions and write emotionally. There's nothing sexual about it. I wish other people would have the courage to write more emotionally, even as anonymous cowards - I'm sure this world would be a better place.

    1. Re:Not true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That closes it. You are gay.

  36. Re:History of GCC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another poster already commented that if a Free C compiler did not exist, Linus would have used a proprietary one.

    If the GNU toolset did not exist, Linus would have used different tools. Even today, the toolset can disappear, and the kernel can change to use something else.

    Without Linux, the GNU toolset would not have the popularity it does today. It would not receive the code contributions it receives today. It would not be in quite as good of a state as it is today.

    Without Linux, RMS doesn't have a Free software "poster child". With the reluctance to move to GPLv3, RMS is losing his poster child anyway, and that's the biggest cause for concern for the FSF and GPLv3.

    GNU needs Linux more than Linux needs GNU.

    -M

    (and, appropriately, the captcha for this is "irksome", which is my impression of the "GNU/Linux" garbage)

  37. Re:History of GCC by fsmunoz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hate to tell you this but GCC wasn't the first free compiler. It wasn't even the first c compile.
    Maybe not, but your examples don't seem to totally support that :)

    There was the Small c compiler that dates back all the way to 1980.
    That's correct, but the scope of Small C and GCC are, I think, a bit different... Small C was made for embeded systems and supports a subset of the C language. It was there, true, but GCC was the first ANSI C free compiler.

    There was also the DICE compiler for the Amiga written by Matt Dillon of FireflyBSD fame that was from around the same time frame.
    DICE was shareware (... I sold DICE as shareware and it quite unexpectedly generated a fair chunk of income. This allowed me to expand into later Amiga models (A3000) as well as put together some fairly souped up PC's (for the times), on which I ran Linux...). The source code has been made available (http://www.obviously.com/dice/) but that was in 1997, so quite recently comparing with GCC. I'm not even going into the DICE licence.

    if RMS hadn't written GCC frankly I think Somebody would have like Matt Dillon maybe.

    Sure. That can be said of anything ever done by anyone I think...
  38. Re:"Humble beginnings" by IdleTime · · Score: 0

    I started using it around kernel version 0.9 something, I even did some programming on the kernel and I have used Linux on at least one of my desktops since 1995, both for work and for hobby.

    The first distro I actually tried (other than bootstrapping systems myself) was a Slackware found in a computer magazine.

    --
    If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
  39. Nice slice of history! by farrellj · · Score: 1

    I got into Linux around kernel version 0.11 or so...and what a wild, strange trip it has been! I would have been even more fun to have caught the original posting by Linus...but I only had access to the newsgroups around the kernel version I mentioned.

    ttyl
              Farrell

    --
    CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
  40. Re:"Humble beginnings" by RockoTDF · · Score: 2, Funny

    Funny....no one in the IT dept where I work (besides me) knows shit about Linux...much less its history. No wonder nothing here works properly...

    --
    There is more to science than physics!

    www.iomalfunction.blogspot.com
  41. Re:History of GCC by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 1

    The same could be said in reverse. GNU could have used the BSD kernel instead of the Linux kernel, and then what? Would Linux the kernel ever have been more than a hobby toy? I guess the world will never know...

  42. Re:History of GCC by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    I forgot that DICE was shareware. It was a nice little compiler.
    Small c wasn't for embedded systems. In 1980 an 8080 with 16k of ram was a powerful desktop!
    Maybe you should look more at the history of the GCC compiler.

    "GCC was started by Richard Stallman in 1985. He extended an existing compiler to compile C. The compiler originally compiled Pastel, an extended, nonportable dialect of Pascal, and was written in Pastel. It was rewritten in C by Len Tower and Stallman,[3] and released in 1987[4] as the compiler for the GNU Project, in order to have a compiler available that was free software. Its development was supervised by the Free Software Foundation.[5]"

    So Stallman based his work on another free compiler. Of course the story doesn't end there.

    "In 1997, a group of developers, dissatisfied with the slow pace and closed nature of official GCC development, formed a project called EGCS (Experimental/Enhanced GNU Compiler System), which merged several experimental forks into a single project forked from GCC. EGCS development subsequently proved more vigorous than GCC development, and EGCS was eventually "blessed" as the official version of GCC in April 1999."

    So what we know and love as GCC is really based on EGCS because GCC was moving way too slow. Kind of like HURD. The statement that I often here that RMS wrote GCC is an exaggeration. Hie is one of the authors of GCC. If he hadn't of done it someone else would have.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  43. IBM, Intel, and MS say "you're welcome" by ClosedSource · · Score: 2, Insightful

    because they were the companies that made a low-cost Linux-capable machine economically feasible.

  44. Re:History of GCC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have it backwards -- nobody really gives a crap about the kernel. They care about "Linux", but what that actually means to them is the userspace programs. Most distributions are GNU/Linux because the linux kernel is just a little bit nicer in a lot of ways such as /proc and the way devices are named, and it is slightly more efficient. You can easily build a GNU/FreeBSD distro that only experts can tell from anything else.

    People use Linux for the toolchain and apps not for the kernel. People stuck on Windows install Cygwin so they have bash and all those other tools. They install OO.o, inkscape, firefox, etc. They don't install qemu in order to 'run linux'.

  45. MS had this too ya know.... by conares · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...only problem is all their correspondance was written in an proprietary format and theres no app to read it anymore....

    --
    That, that really grinds my gears!
  46. Bravo by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

    Don't mind the trolls. Soldier on and keep at it. The art of writing is something that is sadly becoming lost in this age.

    One of the best books I've ever read is from my wife's collection. It's a collection of love letters from World War One. Probably some of the best writing I've ever seen. Very moving stuff, and it makes us "modern" folk look like absolute idiots when it comes to the basics, like expressing yourself.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:Bravo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Don't mind the trolls. Soldier on and keep at it. The art of writing is something that is sadly becoming lost in this age."

      Ha! *You* are the gay, then.

      "One of the best books I've ever read is from my wife's collection. It's a collection of love letters from World War One"

      Wai... wait a moment... I did read that book and liked it too...
      Oh, my god! Am I...? Am I a...?

      Sigh!

  47. Nice article, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    does this Linux program run on Windows yet?

    1. Re:Nice article, but ... by Ravenscall · · Score: 1
      --
      You say you want a revolution....
    2. Re:Nice article, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cygwin is not Linux.

  48. Linus gone wild by doorwayboy · · Score: 3, Funny

    Anyone else notice the two pics of a young Linus were are linus1.gif and linus3.gif?
    http://kerneltrap.org/files/linus2.gif

    1. Re:Linus gone wild by pimpimpim · · Score: 1

      Hah! To my own shame I must say I didn't notice, I loose some nerd points there :) It might actually have been done like this on purpose, knowing the kind of people who would read this article.

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  49. More like Phoenix and AMD by IvyKing · · Score: 2, Informative
    If it weren't for the PeeCee clone market made possible by the Phoenix BIOS and the competition in the processor market keeping Intel on their toes, the low cost high performance Linux system as we know it wouldn't exist.


    Remember, back around 1990, IBM and Compaq system prices were pretty close to what was being asked for low end HP/Apollo, Sun and MIPS boxes. Now if DEC had been more agressive with the pricing for Alpha and Ultrix...

    1. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      I should have included Phoenix as well. As far as PCs 1990's pricing being comparable with Unix workstations, it didn't happen that way on my planet.

    2. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by IvyKing · · Score: 1
      Did you ever see what Compaq was asking for their first 486 systems? Seem to recall prices on the order of 10 grand or so. OTOH, generic 486 boxes were a lot cheaper - which is exactly my point that Phoenix (and AMI) did a lot more for lowering the cost of the PeeCee than IBM, Intel or MickeySoft. Remember also that Windoze didn't start taking off until 1991 or '92 - also remember that the killer app for the IBM PC was Lotus 1-2-3.


      Ca 1991, 386 boxes were a lot cheaper than 486 boxes in part due to AMD selling 386's.

    3. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      I don't think AMD had enough of a market share in that time-frame to influence Intel prices much. But the more important point is that popularity of PCs made a business case for AMD to compete with Intel and the openness of the PC (excluding the BIOS) along with the ability to aquire MSDOS instead of having to reverse-engineer it as well, made clones feasible a lot earlier than they would have otherwise.

      386 systems were cheaper than 486 systems because the 486 was faster.

    4. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by IvyKing · · Score: 2, Insightful
      If you're going to bring up MS-DOS, you might as well mention Seattle Computer Products. The reason that MS-DOS was available for other machines was that it was originally written by SCP for their own hardware - and since IBM did not pay for the original development, they had no exclusive rights to MS-DOS. BTW, Compaq and a few other companies had their own forks of MS-DOS. Also BTW, DR-DOS was the result of DR reverse engineering a reverse engineered version of CP/M.


      What made the business case for the IBM PC was Lotus 1-2-3, which was written specifically for the PC. What helped the clone market was that the IBM PC design was pretty generic, allowing for relatively easy cloning.


      As for AMD's market share in 386 systems, it doesn't take much to force a change in Intel's pricing. FWIW, 486 motherboards were cheaper to build than 386 motherboards - the 486 had onchip cache and didn't need a numeric co-processor.

    5. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by ClosedSource · · Score: 0

      IBM didn't have exclusive rights to MS-DOS because that's not the agreement they made with MS. There were no legal hurdles that prevented them gaining exclusivity had they wanted it. This history is well known but doesn't really change the fact that being able to buy MS-DOS generically was a key factor in the development of clones.

      In addition while Lotus 1-2-3 was a very popular application, it wasn't solely responsible for the success of the PC. But again this isn't really relevant to our debate.

    6. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      the 486 had onchip cache and didn't need a numeric co-processor.

      Pretty much nobody needed a numeric processor back then. You had a 'status symbol' machine in the company if yours had an 8087, 80287, or 80387 in it. Only people doing CAD could generally justify it. And some people ran Autocad with a memory resident 'math coprocessor' software patch installed.

    7. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by IvyKing · · Score: 1

      IBM didn't have exclusive rights to MS-DOS because that's not the agreement they made with MS. There were no legal hurdles that prevented them gaining exclusivity had they wanted it.


      One hurdle was that SCP had already distributed 86-DOS to Lomas Data Products prior to the sale of rights to MS (see the LDP ad in the June 1981 issue of BYTE). In order for IBM to have exclusive rights to MS-DOS, they would have had to have MS negotiate with both SCP and LDP about using another OS for their machines and that would have ended up costing a lot more than the $50,000 that MS paid SCP for 86-DOS. As part of the sale of 86-DOS, SCP got royalty free access to MS-DOS and MS programming languages for CPU's sold by SCP.


      Related point, work on 8086 support at MS started because of SCP - MS Disk Basic was running on SCP hardware in November 1979.

    8. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by IvyKing · · Score: 1
      Since I've been in R&D most of my working life, a numeric co-processor has been a necessity for almost all of the machines I've worked on. The first 486 bought by our company was purchased December 1990. I remember one application where we replaced a 12MHz 286 mobo (with 287) with a 33MHz mobo and were impressed with the speed improvement.


      My original point was that it was cheaper to make the mobo for the 486 than for the 386 because you didn't need the co-processor socket and could get by without a cache on the mobo. By "cheaper", I mean the cost of the motherboard before the processor and main RAM is installed.

    9. Re:More like Phoenix and AMD by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      "If it weren't for the PeeCee clone market made possible by the Phoenix BIOS and the competition in the processor market keeping Intel on their toes, the low cost high performance Linux system as we know it wouldn't exist. "

      And don't forget to thank the industrial military-complex and their shrewd practice of "second sourcing". By refusing to buy from Intel unless they shared their trade secrets with AMD, they ensured that no one (including them) could be held hostage by the whims, mistakes, and self-interest of just one supreme supplier.

      And in a way, "open source" can also be thought in that way. Open source code doesn't just open the code, it opens up the marketplace (and it keeps it open) should a customer ever desire to have more than just one source to buy from -- at least -- that's the way I sell the concept to some.

  50. It's too bad about teh Lunix, really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    You know, it really is a shame Lunis couldn't have been bothered to write it properly in the first place.

    All these years later, and he's still trying to cludge it together and keep it working. And let's not even talk about security- naming the problems with that would cause a buffer overflow on the forum.

    Had Lunis and company written it properly at the start, maybe he wouldn't still be chasing Windows 95's tail lights.

    1. Re:It's too bad about teh Lunix, really by PalmKiller · · Score: 1

      LOL, somebody please mod this coward up :)

  51. SCO, Eat Your Heart Out by ryanisflyboy · · Score: 1
    FTA:

    Although linux is a complete kernel, and uses no code from minix or other sources, almost none of the support routines have yet been coded.

  52. Still True Today by ryanisflyboy · · Score: 1
    FTA:

    "I'd hate to get flames like "you destroyed my entire collection of Sam Fox nude gifs (all 103 of them), I'll hate you forever", just because I may have done something wrong." - Torvalds
  53. Re:History of GCC by vga_init · · Score: 2, Informative

    Strictly speaking, he didn't just "sit down" and write his own compiler from scratch. He spent a lot of time searching for a free compiler that was already complete, and finally he found one. It wasn't a C compiler, so he made the necessary modifications to get it going. Also, he didn't do it by himself--Leonard Tower was working on it full time, and there were other assistants.

  54. No, the problem with the Hurd was Mach by Animats · · Score: 1

    The Hurd debacle has a number of causes. First, it started from Mach. Mach was an attempt to build a microkernel by adding stuff to an early BSD kernel. This was a bad idea to begin with, and the end result was disappointing.

    Microkernel architecture is quite hard, and if any of the initial design decisions are botched, you get a slow, ugly system. The better microkernels are commercial and proprietary, and don't have many papers on how the internals were designed. Mach has the published papers, because it was an academic system, and this results in a tendency to emulate Mach, which is generally considered to have been a botch.

    UNIX-like kernels are straightforward to write. There have been many clones of UNIX, most of them forgotten.

    Open source projects have trouble with difficult architectural decisions. There's a tendency in the open source world to focus on "features", and microkernels aren't about "features". They're about doing message passing, protection, and CPU dispatching really well, making it possible to do everything else outside the kernel.

  55. Re:"Humble beginnings" by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 1

    It is indeed called "Just for Fun", and yes, I have it in my bookshelf. It's a great read.

  56. Re:"Humble beginnings" by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 1

    Well, I still have to work in an IT department where they haven't at least heard of Linux. Actually, I've never met an IT guy that didn't at least try Linux once. Most of them have at least one Linux box.

    That said, I've mostly only worked with people that have a computer science background, so my view is probably tainted.

  57. Re:History of GCC by Ma�djeurtam · · Score: 1

    Now I'm dreaming of OpenSolaris under the GPLv3. Goodbye Linux, Redhat, Novell and their err... strange deals.

    And Linus' wisdom has been weak those last years (lots of strange, 'politic' choices). We need another benevolent dictator. This one is used up.

    Gentoo GNU/OpenSolaris will make my day.

    --
    Instant Karma's gonna get you, Gonna knock you right on the head (John Lennon, 1970)
  58. How it got out of hand. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have been an avid user of linux since 1994. i cannot remember the exact version but 1.1.13 was the one i spent most of the early days using.

    The thing that will suprise most newer users is the incentive that started moving linux from a silly fun project was not its current anti M$ following. Most of that crowd at the time were supporting OS2.

    The folks that used and loved Linux in those days were poor students who needed to learn UNIX for university projects but could not spend all their days in the labs on ultra expensive machines.

    Being able to develop on a relativly cheep home 3 or 486 take it in to the labs and be reasonably confident it would compile and run was a godsend.

    A generatipn of software engineering students came out of university feeling they at least in part owed their degrees to Linus and GNU.

    I know I am one. Thank you Linus. I have never met you but owe you much beer. Yeah the free kind.

  59. Re:"Humble beginnings" by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    In days long gone, it was pretty much included in every Linux book you could buy.

    In days longer gone, there weren't any Linux books. I bought the first one I heard of, which was published by Yggdrasil and turned out to be a huge bound volume of FAQs and Howtos. And then the Matt Welsch book came out, which helped a lot.

    Them where the days when you scraped up whatever books on Unix that you could find from O'Reilly and adapted it over. 'Essential System Administration' and the X Books.

  60. Re:History of GCC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't one of you old geezers tell us about the episode of RMS trying to get the compiler kit from Free Universtity (of Netherland, don't rememeber the exact name) for his use, but got pissed on instead, and he resorted to writing his own GCC.

    Its true, GCC is THE MOST important component of GNU suite, even more than Emacs/LISP. Where would we be without it? Commercial UNICES stopped distributing CC as part of the basic OS long ago. On one project, I used GCC on Solaris because we didn't want to pay for SUN SDK.

  61. OT: Look at all the low-id's come out! by WoTG · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't recall ever seeing so many 3 and 4 digit /. IDs post. Kind of an odd feeling in a geeky way.

    1. Re:OT: Look at all the low-id's come out! by Kilroy · · Score: 2, Funny

      We don't get out much anymore. It takes forever to render these new comment threads in Mosaic.

  62. Commented linux by PerseP · · Score: 1

    In http://www.oldlinux.org/book.html there is a book where they comment linux 0.01 source code. The pity about it is that it's only in Chinese. Does anybody know about anything similar in english?

    1. Re:Commented linux by Marauder2 · · Score: 1

      While it covers v2.2, it's called "Linux Core Kernel Commentary: Guide to Insider's Knowledge on the Core Kernel of the Linux Code"
      ISBN-10: 1576104699
      http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Core-Kernel-Commentary -Knowledge/dp/1576104699

  63. Re:History of GCC by fsmunoz · · Score: 1

    Yes, I used DICE in the Amiga, it was nice, no doubt about it. It's sometimes hard to tell if something that I used back in that time was "free" since the concept of free most used was generally used to refer to freeware and shareware.

    As for the GCC history, I do know it. One interesting thing that I aways found funny was when RMS found a " Free University Compiler" (can't remember the name of the Uni) and wrote to them to use it; the thing is, it was the University that was Free, not the compiler :).

    Having said that, RMS *and* the FSF were instrumental in the the development of GCC as the first truely free (i.e. something GPL/BSD/MIT/ISC licenced, not neesseraly copyleft) ANSI C compiler. EGCS was a recent event (I remember it well), GCC was already widely used and loved before it, and doesn't really change the previous history of GCC or its importance... furthermore EGCS became the main GCC and its still developed as a GNU project.

    As for the actual input of RMS in GCC or in other things, you are of course right in that he is one of many authors (fortunately!), and nowadays RMS doesn't really code much to my knowledge. One thing is important though: RMS *and others* did it at a time when few people were doing it, and as such bootstraped a process of common sharing and development. Hence his importance, even if he deosn't have a line of code in the current GCC. It's generally easier for people to join an already ongoing project than to start it by themselves.

  64. Re:History of GCC by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    You see that is what gets me. Code shareing was going on long before RMS and the GPL. Public domain software often included source code. I released source for a Virus checker and Arexx bindings for TDI Modula-2 long before I ever saw the GPL.
    I even fixed a few bugs in PD software that I had the source for and sent them to the author. It was by snail mail but I did it.
    Then internet is what really pushed FOSS forward. Frankly I wish RMS would do more talking and less preaching. But then I am not one of the RMS faithful. If not for RMS we would still have BSD if not GCC we would have a different free compiler. Just like if the Wright brothers hadn't built the first airplane Santos Dumont would have "and some day he did but they are full of it". If Frank Whittle hadn't built the first jet engine some one else would have. Very few people are key players in history. The real driver in FOSS development was and still is the Internet and not RMS.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  65. Re:History of GCC by gr8_phk · · Score: 1

    Now I'm dreaming of OpenSolaris under the GPLv3. Goodbye Linux, Redhat, Novell and their err... strange deals.

    1) You are dreaming
    2) It's lacking a huge (I mean HUGE) number of device drivers.
    3) I don't think it's got ports to all the architectures Linux runs on.

    Each of those things could change of course, but it would take time. I think it would be nice if there was a viable kernel under GPLv3. One correction: Redhat hasn't signed one of those strange deals like Novell.

  66. Don't try THIS kids@home... by dlymper · · Score: 1
    Years ago, a friend of mine noticed the following line in fs/buffer.c:

    while (tmp != free_list || (tmp=NULL));
    /* Kids, don't try THIS at home ^^^^^. Magic */

    --
    - "I say the whole world must learn of our peaceful ways...by force!!" Bender B. Rodriguez