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Failing Our Geniuses
saintlupus writes "Time has an interesting article about the failure of the US educational system to properly deal with gifted students. For example, up to ten times as much money is spent nationwide on educating 'developmentally disabled' students as gifted ones. Does No Child Left Behind mean that nobody can get ahead, either?"
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>Does No Child Left Behind mean that nobody can get ahead, either? Of course it does. If *any* child gets ahead, *millions* of children are left behind that one. I have always referred to this program as "no child gets ahead"-- it's turned out to be remarkably accurate.
Maybe the developmentally disabled kids need a lot more help to be functional (and if they don't get that help as kids, we end up feeding them their whole adult lives), and the genuises don't need as much help?
Honestly, I wish I'd gotten help for my actual limitations (mild autism, which has been moderately crippling at times), but frankly, for the genius stuff, it would have been sufficient for the schools to mostly get out of my way.
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Then, like today, it was much easier for schools to keep classes uniform by holding bright kids back so that more effort could be spent on the "slow" ones. Uniformity is the goal, and it's a lot easier to dumb down smart kids than the other way 'round.
Oh, and here's a clue: if you offer bonuses for teachers of math and science, the teachers with the most seniority (regardless of whether they can add) will teach those classes. My kids had a math PhD teaching music, but she couldn't get into the math program against the ed majors who ran the system.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I've known this to be the truth ever since I was in the 7th grade. I hated school, but I didn't fully understand why. The real reasons did not make sense to me until I read some stuff by John Taylor Gatto. He has a paper called the http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.htmlSix Lesson Schoolteacher that was really eye opening. He has a rather large book called The Underground History of American Education you should check out.
/what/ to think, instead of learning /how/ to think.
What I believe, now that I am not in school, is that first off we should have never had public school, secondly they should never have been tied into the government. Thats how propaganda gets spread around. I honestly believe that every child is a genius, and that our public schools do a great job of convincing them that their individual genius is worthless (eg. You're only a genius if you can add these two 50 digit numbers together in your head in less than 2 seconds). My Mom is a teacher, and she teaches special kids, savants and what not.
Anyways, go back to being told
Well, in a society that regularly ridicules people because they are smart, what do yo expect?
"For example, up to ten times as much money is spent nationwide on educating 'developmentally disabled' students as gifted ones."
Duh! Smart kids learn faster than 'tards. Whodathunkit? Was this article written by Captain Obvious? So you've got a choice - either invest more in educating those who are slower learners, or pay to support them. Which is cheaper in the long run (hint - you don't have to be a genius to figure that one out either).
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It's no surprise. Some cultures love their smart people. The Asian's love their smart people. They glorify them, they treat them with a lot of respect, and view them as a source of national pride.
We, on the other hand, do not. Culturally, Americans view intellectualism with suspicion. We love the captain of the football team; big, handsome, and dumb. You have only to look at the debates on science to understand that. There is societal pressure to not appear too smart, or you'll have a number of unflattering stereotypes applied to you. The last two losing presidential candidates both had their intelligence used against them in an unflattering way; they were know-it-alls, dorks, geeks, namby pamby sissy faggot intellectuals, whereas the guy everyone regards as the dumber candidate is trustworthy and strong.
A lot of it probably has its roots with Christianity. The Devil is smart, remember? When Dante was populating the Inferno, he dumped Odysseus in the 8th circle, 1 up from the bottom. Why? Because he's a smart, tricky bastard, just like the Devil is supposed to be. This country has a lot of radical Christian roots (Puritans, anyone?) so it's not all that surprising that our views on intellectualism are shaped around that.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
More to the point, it would mean treating students as individuals and that would totally screw up the system.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I was in grade school in the early 80's. I went to a good public school. My parents were both teachers and chose to live in that neighborhood because of the school district. Even then, the gifted program was just OK. My parents had me in several after-school classes and activities to bolster the schools shortcomings.
It still comes down to parents doing actual parenting. If you've got a gifted child, you have to know they are only going to get so much from their school.
I was lucky. My parents knew what they were doing. They let me explore my interests without pushing. They had me in a creative writing class. They got me into science competitions. The best thing they did was buy a computer for the house. This was a TRS-80 in 1982. It was a stretch for the household budget, but messing with that taught me more than anything else.
geekd
"When everyone is special, then no one will be."
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
you mean the jocks right? Paying for all the sports equipment to feed their egos so that at least at one part of their life they can look back and say they were happy? - QAK
It's hopeless to make talented students go to schools where even the most violent and the most stupid can not be denied admission. Gifted students will be bullied (sometimes literally) to death because of their different personality, tendency not to hang around in peer groups that can not understand them and plain jealousy. Besides, how exactly can a teacher lecture in a single class where some students are having trouble with multiplication tables and others have questions about derivatives?
Ideally, we need a system of student competitions that identifies talent and sponsors the winners for tuition in private, more challenging schools - as much for their protection as for accelerated education. This is unlikely to happen though because of both lack of money and current attitude of political correctness that allows "special needs" students to beat up gifted ones at will. In the meantime parents should step up to the plate, do home schooling the best they can and organize study groups where students can help each other get more information from books and Internet.
Achievement levels off once you start generating knowledge yourself. Learning logarithms when you're 10 instead of 14 isn't going to make you significantly more likely to "cure leukemia or stop global warming".
Look at those "geniuses" who get packed off to college in their early teens. Have any of them ever accomplished anything noteworthy?
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Doesn't make it any easier when the system is designed to hold you back. Yea, sure, you're in history class, and the teacher is lecturing out of the book, so you just start reading the book. You think when you finish the book they let you move up a class? Or do you think the teacher will start ragging on you for not paying attention because you've read the damn book two or three times, and you're bored out of your fricking mind?
And do you think when the teacher hears your assertion that you've read the book that that teacher will react with anything but scorn? And do you think that teacher will be surprised and pleased that you actually appear to have mastered the material, after he's stopped class to flip ahead and bombard you with study questions from the later chapters of the book?
Or do you think that he will be so enraged at your showing him up in front of the class that he will go out of his way to pick on you for the rest of the year? You'll end up with a reputation as a "discipline problem," and spend the rest of high school magically ending up in classes with other "discipline problems" which is the nail in the coffin as far as ever giving a damn about school.
And those grades are critical for getting you into the sort of college that you'll really need to be in to get the most out of it. Mediocre grades and phenomenal test scores will only take you so far.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
I think you might overstate your point a bit, but I do think you have one never the less. The rise of intellectualism during the Enlightenment was also a period when it was permissive to view religion with suspicion, where the human mind was something to be glorified as much if not more than some fuzzy sky deity for which Europe had been battered bloody for a couple of hundred years before. Heck, men like Madison and Jefferson, who didn't bother to hide their own contempt for Christianity, were not only accepted in society, but became major politicians and statesmen, and were major architects of the United States itself. By Lincoln's time, we were already heading into the post-Enlightenment era, where politicians had to make all the right religious sounds.
Now we have powerful lobbies seeking to undermine science education in the United States, trying to find ways to sneak past that great product of the Enlightenment Age; the Bill of Rights, so that there superstitious worldview can be promulgated in public schools.
If the US wants to know why its surrendering the production of scientists to other parts of the world, they only need to look at all those small-minded, anti-intellectual twerps that manage to get on school boards and state Boards of Education, with their Bible in one hand and hatred of knowledge in the other.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
In my experience (mine and people I know), it's not that gifted kids don't try to get ahead, it's that they are often actively prevented from doing so.
Don't forget that historically many people who went on to be geniuses were considered retarded or in modern terms developmentally disabled... like Einstein, for example. Many extremly technically gifted people are categorized as being Autistic, which often comes with high intellegence, with low social skills... And autism is one of the biggest cost initiatives in the no child left behind campaign. Special needs != Stupid High performing student != gifted/genius No child left behind just makes it more painfully obvious that the school system is only a very expensive, very useless state mandated babysitting service. Real learning happens when people are left to persue subjects they are passionate about. I can't believe people still think that a genius will be somehow less valuable and less effective with less school resources. In fact, I would be willing to say that the less the "education" process gets in the way of learning, the better.
... on whether or not the gifted student is smart enough to figure out how to use resources to direct their own learning.The point? I think most of the smart kids -- especially if they have any kind of decent direction from parents, or a counselor, or some kind of mentor -- can take advantage of the existing system just fine, and learn to find resources outside of it to further their own goals. Kids are kids. Just because a kid is a genius doesn't make him anything other than a kid. You're expecting these kids to not only be smart but also extremely motivation and fully knowledgeable about what is possible.
You know what they'll figure out on their own? That it takes 10 minutes to get the password of every student in the school. Why? Because it's about the most interesting thing they can do during school hours.
How do you expect a kid to be motivated about anything when they're forced to sit for 6 hours a day in a chair and be subjected to repetitive babbling on things they learned the first time the teacher said it. Of course any attempt to claim they already know this will be returned with a "too bad, you need to stay in this class since we don't care how boring it is" response from the school. And no the school doesn't care how good the child is or how gifted they are but simply sends out the same form reply anytime someone even dares to ask to do something different.
What the educational system at large now represents, is a dumbing down to the least common denominator so that nobody feels bad.
... like "This child is bright, this one... not so much"
No child should be left behind, and certainly school can be challenging for some. But by instituting a tenet that "There are no losers" so let's give everyone an award - we're raising a generation that thinks mediocrity is ok. It's not ok, and the failure to nurture gifted children is ensuring our future demise.
What ever happened to respecting and cherishing differences?
I hate to sound like I'm insulting your religion, each to their own and all that. But I can't stand by and watch someone say things like There is a rich intellectual tradition amongst the mainline Christian denominations when Christianity/Catholicism especially has repeatedly proven to be one of the biggest obstacles to the development of mankind's knowledge. You caused the Dark Ages for crying out loud!
... We love the captain of the football team; big, handsome, and dumb ...
... know-it-alls ...
... namby pamby sissy faggot intellectuals ...
;-)
You have basically proven that you are just as ignorant and just as wiling to stereotype as those your rail against. Captains are usually intelligent. And some football (American) positions do require intelligence, the ability to quickly analyze a fluid situation (an unfolding play), develop a successful plan and refine that plan in real time as further developments occur. The fact that these skills are applied to big guys hitting your rather than a network intrusion is irrelevant.
It is not intellectualism that people dislike, it is arrogance and condescension. Also, if a political candidate can not communicate without seeming arrogant or condescending then they have some shortcomings in leadership skills.
Not all intellectuals are liberal.
I apologize if the preceding joke went to far. The point is that intellectuals come with various political viewpoints, various athletic abilities, various levels of moral courage, etc. Again, you display a narrow uninformed stereotype and resemble those your criticize.
This proves the point, that when ever someone cries "the government should do something" the answer is probably NO
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
The answer that immediately came to my mind as well.
I'm a science teacher, and the focus of my school is exactly as described - it is to raise the test scores of marginally achieving populations. There are advanced courses in most subjects, but other than that no extra attention is paid to gifted kids, except at the most minimal level (i.e. the extra efforts of one sponsoring teacher) in some extracurricular clubs. Even the training provided to districts by national consultants such as those of Professional Learning Communities make virtually no mention of gifted kids (I listened very carefully for this at the conference I took part in). They advocate standardizing and homogenizing instruction, to a) increase the teaching skills of poor teachers, and to b) allow all kids to be graded by standardized tests. The implicit and explicit assumption is that a rising tide will raise all boats. Unfortunately, this whole process completely excludes the programs of truly gifted teachers (and they are admittedly too rare), and gifted kids find normal schooling to be incredibly boring a lot of the time.
"Then you have another student with an IQ of 130. This student is no more normal than the other. He is intellectually gifted. Failing to identify or serve this student's needs will not even earn anyone a slap on the wrist."
There's a huge difference though, the high IQ type has all ability to self acutalize. The internet and library are there for a reason, you can learn at any pace you want, its more likely gifted kids are just too lazy to do their own learning. In the age of the internet there is less and less of an excuse for high IQ types in my opinion, while the low IQ student will ALWAYS be at a sever disadvantage for the rest of his life, the high IQ type will not be. They just need to be pointed in the right direction and also most of the time to be left alone to study and create new works on their own, the people at teh edge of the high IQ spectrum should not expect their 'needs' to be served so much as as creating what they need since they at the top of the pile, why should anyone gifted expect interesting work when they in the top %1 of the population? I mean come on the dice is so loaded with gifted kids, most of them simply have character flaws, are lazy or oblivious to their own egotistical flaws.
One thing the article never said was: What about having her go to regular classes with her agemates but allowed to do her own learning? Bring her own books, get correspondance cousework from university? The article sounds like a big pity party.
One of the reasons our nation's gifted children are suffering is because of a severe lack of skilled, qualified teachers to suit their needs. Let me elaborate with a personal story: my mom always talks about how my grandmother was a second grade teacher, and was well known for her ability to teach her second grade students well enough to read from the newspaper by the end of the school year. Parents went out of their way to get their children into her courses. The problem, though, was that she had a horrible salary. She was a single mother and had to take care of four kids. Life for my mother was hard.
Teachers like my grandmother aren't around anymore because other industries pay better. That's not to say people are greedy money grubbers, though, because in most of the United States it is difficult to support oneself on a teacher's salary. So when given the choice between taking a $40k teaching gig or a $60k software developing gig in a state like, say, California (where schools are nearly last place in the country and living costs are HIGH), the majority would go for the $60k gig. And without good teachers or resources, we end up taking the mindset of "How do we keep the less gifted students on track with the norm?"
We all see ads and propaganda for the Army, right? Recruiters at every school. But where the hell is the propaganda for teacher recruitment? If our public education system had the same budget as the military, none of these problems would've existed. We'd have had ads asking for teachers playing at the theaters before the previews came on. Superintendents of public school boards would be making speaches at universities about why you should get a job in teaching. Gifted students would have access to advanced courses and cirriculum in the same school as the normal kids. (I've got nothing against the nation's military, though, and I wasn't intending to give that message off. Sorry.)
On another note, I took an IQ test a while ago and found out that... well, my IQ wasn't as high as the girl in the beginning of the TIME article, but it was up there. I don't remember being able to talk as well as she did, but in my psychology research I found out I did a lot while I was a kid. Memorizing the names and locations of the United States, making large structures with building blocks, y'know? However when I was at school I was a complete bonehead! I'd find it hard to read a lot of the material they gave in class and outright hated writing and grammar lessons. And I was always imagining different things, I never really focused on the teacher's lessons or anything. I was told that some of my classmates didn't even think that I would get past high-school.
There's a lot in deciding who is smart and who is not. A lot of the issues that students have are simple barriers or developmental issues that they haven't grown out of. Things like dyslexia, attention deficity disorder, or even an early fear of math. And there are a lot of issues with standardized testing, because many students learn and study in different ways, and if teachers aren't aware or open to these different types of learning methods, how are students supposed to excel?
Add onto that a lot of immigrant children don't even know English, so how are they supposed to learn in a classroom? One of the issues with the "No Child Left Behind" Act is that it rewards schools that perform well in academic standardized testing, but when a lot of students from poor immigrant families perform poorly because of a lack of education or the language barrier, the school and the entire district suffer the consequences. Ultimately the children are being taught material from the SATs and standardized testing for the sake of passing the exams only!
Let loose the slashdot moaning about how bad the public education system is... regardless of the fact that the average slashdotter wouldn't last two days as a teacher. Boo hoo, the parents and administration won't support me and none of the kids want to learn, and I'm somehow supposed to motivate them. Welcome to public education. It's HARD to teach. Here's some good advice for anyone - unless you've actually done a person's job, shut the hell up. And yes, I HAVE taught. At one point in time I taught gifted 4th and 5th graders how to program, years ago. Some of those kids are now in college, studying computer programming. So I've actually DONE something. You want to change public education? Triple teacher salaries to dramatically increase competition for jobs and radically improve the quality of teachers, and change USA culture so that parents and kids respect education (good luck.) Though since we seem to value money so much, increasing teacher salaries might have the same effect.
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"A normal classroom is a torture for these kids."
Ohh so true. My 2nd grade teachers thought I had learning dissabilities. In reality I was just so damn bored.
Thankfully my mother was a teacher for the school district, so when she told my teachers they needed to challenge me to get me to do better they were willing to give it a shot. They probably hated me for the trouble I was in class and would probably try anything by that point to make me less annoying. My teachers were somewhat surprised that all of a sudden I was less disruptive in class and did better academically.
I was not self actuated until high school. By that point, I didn't need teachers to teach me subjects--particularly math and the sciences. So I agree with your assertion that a young intelligent kid can benefit from some academic coaching.
I was placed in classes where I was the obviously much younger student in the class. I hated the ridicule directed my way for being intellectually capable. I was sensitive to the fact that I was threatening to others, so I learned to not speak up and give answers in a class environment except only occasionally--it wasn't necessary for the education of myself or my classmates, and I could just ignore the class and read ahead. That is an important social lesson that I may not have learned had I only been among peers as capable as me. It allowed me to know when it's appropriate to shine and when it's not--when an answer is needed to solve a problem nobody else knows, then show your stuff. I can pick out the special ed. (as in gifted special ed.) student a mile away. They never learned humility or how to interract with the rest of the world. They never learn how to take their gifts and use them to sway the masses since they are too busy trying to convince everyone they are right to the point of losing supporters. They develop their abilities for the most selfish goal of satisfying their need to feel they are better than everyone else. They become ignored geniuses.
Despite the assumed rigor attached to the study of physical sciences, for instance, acceptance of a scientist's theories often include a measure of politics. The history of science is filled with people long dead before their work is recognised or accepted. Einstein was a rare example of genius excepted in his lifetime. I believe it's not a coincidence that Einstien was also generally a humble and kind person.
I urge you to find a way to have your daughter be in a setting, at least for a small portion of her education, where she interracts with regular people. Afterall, the world is filled with regular people. Your 8 year old could, when ready and appropriate, spend time in some traditional college prep classes in a high school for instance. You can even have her approach this likely dull class not as an opportunity to learn the subject, but rather an exploration into how to interact with normal people. And please do everything you can to ensure she does not learn contempt for average people. Otherwise your daughter could end up sounding like the snotty girl in the article :
" 'People are, I must admit it, a lot of times intimidated by me,' she told me; modesty isn't among her many talents. She described herself as 'perfectionistic' and said other students sometimes had 'jealousy issues' regarding her. "
I'm not the original poster, but I'll still answer your question: No. I'm bitter that I lost a lot of my childhood by sitting in a prison of the mind, wasting my time instead of doing something better with my life.
I'm not on Slashdot because of my time in school. I'm here because I value continuing education. Don't laugh.
Except for about four years of my schooling (one in primary, one in middle, and two in high) where I was given a chance to self-educate, I spent my time in school alternately at the top of the class or rebelling. Those times when I was self-paced, I completed a couple of years' coursework at a time. For anyone with an IQ above 130, public school is an undeniable waste of time. I'd even say that it's a waste of several hours a day for the average student. Not much goes on in school except crowd control, lunch, and socializing.
I have had a few teachers who pushed me to my limit and were educated enough to lead me, but most were just average and knew little about their subjects. The textbook was always a better source of information than the average teacher, and I didn't have to waste fifty hours of my life to get through it at a snail's pace. My time on Slashdot educates me better than my time in school did, though the signal/noise ratio has gone down in the last few years.
I understand you'll see this post as egotistical and smug, but I feel qulified to comment on this story (and your post) because
Put identity in the browser.
After I took the SAT in seventh grade (and scored similarly to an average senior that year), I was allowed to skip eighth grade. There were upsides and downsides, and I'm fairly happy about where I am now -- but it's not for everyone. I lost a lot of friends and there seemed to be a higher asshole to polite person ratio in my graduating class.
I took a self-paced English course the summer after my freshman year. I finished a semester's worth of work in two weeks. I'm still pissed off about all of that wasted time. I could probably have learned a couple of languages, I would probably be better at math.. Hell, I could have become even more of a virtuoso guitarist if I had started music lessons a couple of years earlier ;) .
I've had this discussion with many of my genius friends, and this attitude is pretty much universal among them. Yes, the school system is nearly useless for all ends of the spectrum. In my cynical moments I imagine that it's a plot to keep the country stupid and docile while they turn the Republic into a fascist shadow of its original promise.
I use friend/foe to signal strong [dis]agreement instead of mod points. What else are f/f good for?
Well i completely agree but from someone who is an Indian citizen and thus an Indian student, i ll try to present the unknown half of the story.you may call it what you feel like, but your story reminds me of my school days and after math of education system in India.
/.ers, India has an education system which forces you to put more emphasis on marks and not understanding. This leads to mugging and poor understanding of the subject.I ll admit mugging when i was a kid, cuz this is how we all are brought up.Though i had to mug for grades, i never liked it.
During my primary standard school i use to finish my whole syllabus before the start of the new term.I am not a genius neither did i take an IQ test, nor do i think i have an IQ of 145+ but i like studying books in my free time.Science was the most easiest and trivial subject to me.As a sidenote for many
After school i went to college for my bachelors in Computers.I realised within one week that i cannot mug anymore somehow. I felt attending classes was a waste of my time. Attending practicals which force you to work rather than learn was a torture. As expected i failed miserably at my grade in my first year of college. That was shock to me.But soon i realised grades do not matter, what matters more is my own satisfaction. Why should i follow the path which makes me feel knowledgeless. Honestly i chose to stop following the stupid rules in college, got one of the lowest marks in the class but managed to get through. I remember being touted as one of the idiot students who do not know a thing about their major.duh... it hurts when those words are from your faculty.Reason being i never liked the idea of sitting at back bench and asking questions which don't make sense. I would prefer reading books and breaking my computer, and personally i learnt more this way.luckily i managed to pass somehow.
Twist of fate, as it seems.My first job after college turned out to be a R&D job where i work as a virtualization hacker full time along with some stints on High Performance computing. And this all makes sense to me.I always liked challenges, and this job is a challenge.I don't regret not following the herd but what i do regret is low grades i got. I know now it may not matter but somehow it hurts.
I hope in US you people get good enough grades for following your heart at colleges?
Godspeed and good luck.
-- "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration" - TAE --