Slashdot Mirror
Linus Torvalds Speaks Out on Future of Linux
SlinkySausage writes "Linus Torvalds has laid out his plans for the future of Linux, including the 3.0 kernel [there probably won't be one], problems with the Linux release cycles and which distro he personally runs on his home PC. '"Compile everything by hand" ones simply weren't interesting to me,' Torvalds says."
guessing he's not a gentoo user :)
But really at this point, even if he stops developing the kernel, someone else will just pick up where he left off. I don't think we can ever really expect to keep one final generation of the kernel. It'll always be changing and morphing to new cpu's, hardware, etc...
cb_is_cool knows where his towel is.
Oh come on!
3.0 is a perfect excuse to break everything and allow your imagination to run riot. That's the fun bit!
Deleted
The one thing I really like about Linux is that it adheres more to a Unix tradition of doing things continually and incrementally. Like, it drives me nuts that on Windows, to talk to SQL Server in C++, one has had to go from db-library to odbc to either OLE-DB or ADO... whereas, in a Unixy type mindset, one might ask, what really needed to change about db-library that required a whole new way of talking to databases? And, the answer is, not a lot. It is absolutely wonderful that in Linux there is a core set of APIs that always work, aren't suddenly abandoned to make a new feature that frankly, most people don't need.
So, in my mind, to say that there won't be a Linux Kernel 3.0 or a Linux 4.0 or something like that, is actually a GOOD THING. If you want dramatic, shocking, breaking releases that require you to rewrite 95% of your code to do the same thing, if you want to find that what you used suddenly can't work largely because it isn't supported any more, then Microsoft has plenty of that.
So three cheers for point releases, and here's to the death of "major" releases.
This is my sig.
try the coral cache, worked for me:d s_talks_about
http://apcmag.com.nyud.net:8090/7012/linus_torval
Sounds like he is sticking with the programming model of doing a large number of releases with small changes type model. Glad to see it actually, as this is the approach that I have been using on all of the software I build for work. What this does bring up, though, is the unfilled need currently of having an auto-upgrader software package where new kernel packages can be auto-upgraded and then migrated too on the fly without requiring a reboot. This would be quite complex I would admit, and maybe not possible in all kernel releases, but this is definitely something that needs to be looked at... Just my 2 cents worth.. :-)
So you're saying AMD/ATI have a worthwhile open source video driver, eh? Oh, they don't? Gee, maybe THAT is why he said that. He may very well be an Intel lover, but that statement you quoted holds no proof of it.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
http://apcmag.com.nyud.net/7012/linus_torvalds_tal ks_about
Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux kernel, has, along with others like Richard Stallman, literally changed the world of software forever.
;)
Linux-based distributions seem to pop up every day, more and more devices now run Linux at their core, from mobile phones to inflight entertainment systems, to the world's mission critical server infrastructures.
The development of the kernel has changed, and Linux is just getting better and better. However, with a community as large and fractured as the Linux community, it can sometimes be hard to get a big picture overview of where Linux is going: what's happening with kernel version 2.6? Will there be a version 3.0? What has Linus been up to lately? What does he get up to in his spare time?
I had the opportunity to chat with the original creator of the Linux kernel, Linus Torvalds, in a number of email exchanges.
APC: Writing an operating system kernel is a hard job. Why did you write Linux in the first place?
LT: Kernels may be hard, but partly because of that they are also interesting. I've always been more interested in "down to the hardware" details than in fluffy stuff like user interfaces etc, and an operating system kernel is about as down to the hardware as you can get without actually building it yourself (which I've also done - I was at a CPU company for seven years, after all). So I'm not into soldering irons etc, but I very much enjoy working at a low level, and thinking about how my software actually interacts with the CPU and other parts of the system. Besides, I really didn't realize how hard it would be. I really never expected to be still working on it 15+ years later
APC: What's the Linux Foundation?
LT: Heh. I just work here, you should ask some of the people who are actually involved in all the other things that LF does. It's basically the combination of OSDL ("Open Source Development Labs") and FSG ("Free Standards Group"), and is a vendor-neutral place for different organizations to discuss the issues they have, and trying to help Linux along. Part of what LF does is pay me to maintain the kernel.
APC: What are you doing with the kernel now? Are you working on it full time? What parts of it do you work on the most?
LT: I very much work on it full time, but I no longer really work on any particular "part"of it - I end up spending almost all my time on not writing kernel code myself, but on working with the flow of code and merging it all.
In fact, the biggest amount of actual source code I've written in the last two years is not in the kernel itself, but in the tool I use to just track the kernel development (called "git" - a source control management system).
So I still get to write code (and I send out suggested patches quite often - but usually they are along the lines of "so here's how we could handle this issue..." in order to prod others to actually do the final patch and testing). But what I do a lot more is go through other peoples changes and say "yes" or "no".
APC: The 2.6 series kernel has been around for a long time. Why?
LT: We used to have these big and painful development releases that took several years, and it worked reasonably well and people got very used to it ("2. is stable, 2. is development"), but it had serious downsides too.
In particular, the release cycles were so long that all the commercial vendors effectively had to back-port a fair amount of new code from the development kernels, and so development code ended up in the stable releases. Also, conversely, the vendors fixed problems in the stable versions, and sometimes the fixes were missed or weren't easy to then forward-port to the development series, because the two were just very far apart.
Basically, a multi-year development cycle simply doesn't work. It was reasonable and required for a while (we did some pretty radical changes there too), but with 2.6, the base kernel is in good shape, and we've improved our development process enough that we just don
Personally, my favorite aspect of this interview is that Linus himself basically considers the core OS now stable enough that anything new is likely to be incremental instead of ground-shakingly different, at least on the x86 platforms.
Which would imply a stability that leads to dependability which leads to usability which leads to widespread use. At least that is my hope in the enterprise, that the combination of commodity hardware with a commodity, high powered and stable OS can be coupled with increasingly powerful database engines such as mySQL, Veritas, etc. Oracle on Linux is now considered stable as well.
At home? stability leading to dependability leading to integration leading to crossover applications that will no longer depend on a proprietary OS stack to function. The only thing missing from my desired tool set on Linux right now is basically an easy to use, high powered MIDI to music recording and notation system -- and the pieces for all of that is already there -- it's my time to research and integrate the pieces that is in short supply.
I guess my point is that stability and upgradeability cause me to buy (several Linuxes and Win2K). Give me yet a large bulkier OS that doesn't really do much but add coolness (Vista or even XP) and I yawn.
...Open Source isn't the only answer -- but it's almost always a better value than the alternatives...
It sounds like you don't grasp the simple brilliance of this. Rather than having the kernel handle these bits, forcing a one-size-fits-all approach, you instead have other teams working on this, developing the GUI, customizing it to the task at hand. Look at Enlightenment, GNOME, KDE, each one fills a need, but none of them are exclusive.
The phrase "My name is Legion for we are many" comes to mind.
Example, at work here, Fedora suits our needs perfectly. While at home, Ubuntu powers my sons desktop and Gentoo is my servers backbone. Yet, when I need to take apps from home, they run with minimal problem. They isolate the desktop from the apps that run on it, giving you infinite flexibility. Yes, it can be overwhelming. Yes, it does not look like a unified front. But by doing this, Linux can be, and is, whatever you need it to be! Hell, my gentoo box doesn't even have a monitor! I ssh in, or when that fails, I have an old teletype in case of emergencys.
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
I managed to read the slashdotted article, and I think you're sorta missing HIS point. Which is that he is a Kernel Developer, not an OS developer. He's not really interested in the other parts of the system, just like you're not really all that interested in the nitty-gritty of kernel mechanics (which is more than fine, btw).
In other words...you need a lot of different kinds of people to build an operating system. Linus never claimed to be the benevolent dictator of an operating system - just of the Linux kernel. There's a difference, and there can't help but be. Related, yes, but the same thing: No, and they can't be.
Thankfully, there are many people out there who want to focus on stuff like UI design and the like. I might even disagree with Linus that such things are "fluffy", but I don't really think his opinions on that have influenced anybody any MORE toward the side of "we just like to code kernels, we don't care about ease-of-use".
So - yes, but no. Ease of use is an obstacle to widespread Linux adoption: Yes, and everyone knows that. But No, this doesn't really have anything to do with Linus.
Linux doesn't have a GUI, dude. You should read about Linux more, and write about it less.
Linus is the creator of, and remains deeply involved with the development of the Linux operating system kernel. "The GUI" isn't his concern. (Though providing the underlying services to support it is.)
Also, I don't think Linus much cares about Linux being "mainstream". He just wants it to be the best!
-Peter
If stability means it's dying. As I see it, the current Linux kernel does all that it needs to, and does it quite well. There is no need to upgrade it, because to do so would be an upgrade for upgrade's sake. Anyone in IT will tell you that to upgrade simply for the sake of upgrading is stupid, and will lead to a multitude of problems. The only reason that the Linux kernel would need a version 3.x is because of a fundamentally new hardware technology. Currently, software is driving hardware development; games are written requiring advanced graphics cards. In the 90's, hardware drove software development; chip makers like Intel put out a new processor, and then software was written to take advantage of the advancements of the new chip.
Even advancements in multi-core technology would not require a 3.x series kernel (unless I'm mistaken in my belief that the 2.6.x series supports multi-core CPU's), simply because once you cam make a dual-core CPU functional with the kernel, expanding that functionality to 4, 8, or even 64 cores is simply an expanding of the current code. And even if the current kernel does not support multi-core CPU's, that would be more of a 2.8.x series, rather than an entirely new kernel version.
Anybody want my mod points?
You know what you should do, you should email Linus and discuss the finer points of why he should use the same distro as you to validate your own choice.
All right, so they'll duel first.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Enough with the Vista bashing, we're sorry.
Quack, quack.
Even advancements in multi-core technology would not require a 3.x series kernel (unless I'm mistaken in my belief that the 2.6.x series supports multi-core CPU's), simply because once you cam make a dual-core CPU functional with the kernel, expanding that functionality to 4, 8, or even 64 cores is simply an expanding of the current code. And even if the current kernel does not support multi-core CPU's, that would be more of a 2.8.x series, rather than an entirely new kernel version
I guess that a 3.0 version would be a suitable "label" to a conversion of the Linux kernel into a Microkernel architecture, I am not saying that it is going to be done, but I think that with the development of multicore technology and the overall new technology a microkernel architecture seems plausible.
In any case, I assume that just a modification of such size would make the version major worth of being changed.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
I for one welcome our delcious "kentucky fried penguin" overlords!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Linux is soooo Y2K. I run RedHat now.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
I mean, real collapsable threads. Because one asshole says "gentoo" in a FP and 99% of what was supposed to be about a Linus interview goes to Hell in a handbasket. So I wish it was possible to click on a "[-]" button the second I saw "gentoo" and be spared of all this.
Nothing against Gentoo, but this was a horrible example when this would've been a really useful Slashdot feature.
i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
People who claim that Torvalds should be doing this or saying that should examine their own positions and honestly consider if they're not simply trying to use him and his position within the community to try and further a particular POV.