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What Vista SP1 Means To You
An anonymous reader writes "Geek.com has an interview with Nick White, Microsoft's Vista Product Manager, covering the upcoming release of Vista SP1. The interview goes over some of the new features, how the change will affect admins, and how Microsoft decides if a change should be rolled out as an update or as part of the service pack. One of the most interesting questions asks whether people should feel that they have to wait until SP1 to upgrade to the operating system, a common practice with Windows users. White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary and notes how Windows Update has lessened the importance of the release of a service pack. Just the same, a News.com article explores the possibility that this update will finally begin driving users to Vista."
Vista SP1 means fresh material to pick on Microsoft for. So now, instead of having a year of the same old "Vista sucks and is failing" articles on Slashdot day after day, we'll have fresh new material like "Vista SP1 sucks and is failing."
Unfortunately for Microsoft, Vista SP1 doesn't mean anything to the majority of computer users, and that trend is showing very little sign of changing. People that have been using Windows have been pretty happy with XP and Win2000. Surprising numbers of casual users still have '98. And increasing numbers of us are using something else entirely =)
So, with the service pack you're finally getting a stable product? Where's the value for all the money you're laying out? Pay hundreds of dollars, put up with anal probe product activation and wait almost a year for what you should have gotten in the first place.
I'm sure that makes sense on some planet...just not this one.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Mr. White's assertions aside, IMHO, MS is releasing this service pack as early as possible to entice people into believing Vista is "ready". The practice in the industry to wait for the first few updates is to firmly entrenched for them to simply "write it off".
And in my experience, lest my FOSS bias shine through, the idea of waiting for the first few updates goes for most software, not just Windows or other MS software.
Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
From TFA:
"If you're an administrator, then you definitely have a lot more to look forward to when it comes to SP1. One thing that caught my eye was the additional ability in BitLocker to encrypt extra local volumes. Many enterprises still partition their workstations and laptops into a C and D drive. Since users are usually instructed to use the D drive to store their data, this means data was at risk if the enterprise also used BitLocker as a security measure, since D couldn't be previously encrypted."
Wait. Only C: could be locked? Full of fail.
This seems semi-ridiculous.
But I'll say the same thing here that I did last time. Basically, the reason that SP1 isn't as big as deal as a "Service Pack" normally is, is that the two "main" updates that will provide a different end-user experience have already been released.
The main "other" thing that SP1 will offer, which apparently wasn't confirmed by Nick White's post, is Paul Thurrott's statement (echoed by others, but which he has now stepped back from until he can get confirmation) that Vista SP1 will include a kernel update to 6.1. This would be the same kernel that will be in Windows Server 2008.
Wow, I didn't know you could remove bloat with a Service Pack.
I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
I'll tell you what it means to me - Windows XP 64-bit. I "upgraded" to Vista early in the summer, and I kept telling myself through all the headaches that I'd just wait it out until SP1. Now that that's not until next year, I've decided I'm no longer waiting. Instead, I'm switching to XP 64-bit, which appears to have a lot more driver support than the last time I tried it. There's no way I'm going to wait until Q1 2008 for a service pack that might fix my issues, especially if, according to Microsoft, service packs are less important now that Windows Update is widely used.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
it means that we will have a flood of articles about Vista SP1, just like the initial flood of Vista articles. Seeing as there's now 2 articles already inside an hour.... I shudder to think how many we will see until March 2008.. or whenever SP1 comes out.
What can someone be xpected to say about a mere Statement of Intent from Microsoft, about a Service Pack.... which right thinking people would expect a big comapny to release RIGJHT NOW and solve teething troubles faced by Vista users daily?
The schedule for SP1 indicates MS is under zero pressure to deliver anything or do anything innovative. No point fantasizing about it.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
So you are saying that everybody ships unready products. These days everybody have patchs. Some calls it Service Packs, others call it updates, others just patchs, and finally other call it Leopard ;-)
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
Just like Windows eventually caught up to Mac with Windows95 and then exceeded it with Windows 2000, Microsoft will once again catch up to Mac OS X with an eventual improved version of Vista that looks and feels as good.
When that time comes Apple faithful will rant "Mac's had that for 5 years!" and it won't matter anymore. Apple had better get innovating the next major killer features fast, because Microsoft is always improving.
On the downside, it's the IT equivalent of working with raw sewage.
We, the raw sewage community, take umbrage with that remark.
The $500 dual core laptop with Vista home pro pre-installed is the most effective way to spread Vista - and that's exactly what's happening.
It has started a huge shift from desktop computers to laptops, just check out your local stores. I picked up a decent HP dual core, 1 GB memory, 80GB HD, DVD-RW, firewire for my daughter to replace her aging desktop.
Since Vista was pre-installed, everything works, of course. I would not want to switch over to Vista, but since it's included in the $500 laptop price, and it would cost me $160 to get an XP OEM plus my time, there is really no incentive to change it. I don't know how much HP paid for Vista, but with the $500 laptop price it felt like Vista was free.
With this price drop I suspect mass migration to laptops - at least for home users and the spread of Vista.
Sorry, but I just don't buy it. People don't switch to Vista because of:
1) hardware compatibility issues,
2) software compatibility issues, and
3) annoyances such as UAC, which negatively impact hinder the user experience (though, I do understand their utility).
In a corporate setting, the first two are, without question, show stoppers, and the last is a burden for support staff. Further, XP *works* for most people, so there's little reason to switch. A service pack for Vista does nothing to address these issues (nor could it).
You know something's wrong when you're talking about driving people to use software rather than attracting them to it.
DNA just wants to be free...
I used to know a guy on a campus social sciences mailing list that could not discuss Islam or Islamic society without using the term "islamofascist". Every single time. And all his references were to blog entries he had written, most of which were plain wrong or simple misrepresented facts. It gets old after a while, but more importantly it's the equivalent to using "poopyhead" when talking about someone you don't like. It's impossible to have conversations of any sort with people like that.
It's funny that you talk about Microsoft's credibility here, given that your slaughter of intelligent discourse also eliminates most of yours.
I like Slashdot but lately it's becoming more and more like Digg.
Stability and performance are not the same. I never said performance was not an issue, nor did I say stability was unimportant... so I really don't see your point.
And please, enough with your stupid journal already. Its already been picked apart, and even the anti-MS crowd here is starting to see you for the nutjob you are.
Q: Microsoft's biggest competition is...
1) Linux
2) Mac OS X
3) Old MS products
The correct answer is 'C'. I know a company that is *very* Microsoft-centric. Last year they were announcing ambitious plans to move to Vista as soon as possible. Not only are they still on XP, they evidently now have no plans to move to Vista. I guess a cold dose of reality was enough to bring them to their senses.
MS is facing two problems with regard to Vista adoption: 1) Vista mostly sucks* and 2) XP is mostly OK. Either one would be an obstacle. Both together are nearly insurmountable.
In the next 2-3 years, I predict...
- most apps will work OK on Vista
- driver issues will have been worked out
- another service pack or two will shave off all the rough edges--they'll fix that networking/multimedia issue, they'll have better default settings so UAC isn't as annoying, etc.
- OEM hardware with Vista will work pretty well
Basically, they'll get past the current state of Vista having "no redeeming merits to overcome the compatibility headaches it causes." But I really do think that will take 2-3 years, and it'll be interesting to see what MS does in that time. I'm sure Vista will eventually be the dominant OS, but I think it'll take that long--which is too bad, because spam simply will not go away until the bulk of the boxes on the Internet are not insecure Windows systems. (Of course, if Mac OS X or Linux wins, that'll be fine too.) MS really screwed up, though. Once Vista was spiraling out of control, they should have pulled back and did what Apple did with OS X--release a whole new OS with the old OS in a VM. That way they could have had a relatively cruft-free OS with the old crufty stuff contained in a VM, rather than making the single largest collection of cruft ever.
* where "mostly sucks" means "some things that used to work are now broken, and the things that are new and work aren't really that great."
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I read this with a twinge of curiosity. Vista Home Ultimate came on the new Dell system I received a couple months ago. While the novelty of Vista's graphical enhancements wore off quickly, my irritation at a litany of Vista bugs did not. They include:
, linux/article.html
- Two year old Netgear 802.11g wireless card being virtually impossible to install
- Crackling, popping audio in World of Warcraft (and other games) from the built in audio that defied repeated attempts to fix via driver upgrades
--- Disabled said audio in BIOS, inserted Creative Sound Blaster 5.1 digital PCI card. Guess what? VISTA INCOMPATIBLE. Creative. THE standard. in.com.patible with Vista's DRM-heavy digital device list. Back to crackling, popping on board audio. So annoying I resorted to playing WoW with no sound.
- ATI HDTv Wonder PCI card installation - wasted time. Windows Media Center could not tune ANYTHING with any degree of quality when the same card + antenna did brilliantly on my old Win XP box. Furthermore, exhaustive forum searching reveals that Media Center actually cripples the driver for the HD tuner, making it so that you can tune OTA content, OR CATV content, but NOT BOTH. You have to install a hacked up driver from some shady 3rd party website to use the full functionality of your TV card. Again, the ATI product does not appear on Microsoft's DRM-heavy "approved digital device" list.
- On board gigabit ethernet adapter's network configuration would randomly disappear and have to be reconfigured when the computer was hard rebooted for any reason, including power outages, or video lockups, leading us to..
- NVidia GForce 7300 PCI Express card included with machine worked flawlessly as delivered, BUT after Microsofts last "patch Tuesday" a few weeks ago, the video would not 'wake up' after the machine had been put to sleep. The "sleep mode" suspend worked great until the last security patch.. It makes no sense to me either. After the patch, the video would not wake with the rest of the system, forcing a hard poweroff/restart, causing the network setting to disappear.. HALF the time.
-
So, two nights ago, after backing up, I took my freshly burned Ubuntu 7.04 cd, took a deep breath, and installed. I can get around in Linux, but I am by no means an expert. My installation was smooth. In less than 90 minutes, using Automatix, I had every plugin, driver, and application I could ever want to make my system perform properly. Nvidia OpenGL driver automatically configured, all video/flash plugins for Firefox, DVD playback, the whole 9 yards. Additionally, using the step-by step copy and paste instructions from the ubuntu website, I had Wine installed, and had configured it properly to run World of Warcraft.
So here I sit. World of Warcraft runs smoothly. Audio is CRYSTAL CLEAR, my Soundblaster Live 5.1 card is supported, no popping, clicking audio. I play the game at 1680x1050 with almost all detail settings turned on at a very smooth framerate. I visit CNN.com and view all embedded video seamlessly, no plugin errors or other irritants. When I need to type papers for college, I have OpenOffice. Ipod works flawlessly with podcast management program.
Why do I need Vista again?
------
Make World of Warcraft work flawlessy in Ubuntu with Wine:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WorldofWarcraft
PC World's noob-friendly "Seven Post-Install Tips for Unbuntu 7.04" :
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130923-page,1-c
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
Looks like Apple's got some innovative plans in the works . . .
Should this come to pass, would we have to re-work the "If Microsoft built a car" jokes?
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
New features, my shiny pink ass. I want an operating system that runs Sonar and Premiere and Eve-Online, and runs them fast and with little hassle. I want an operating system that doesn't snoop on me or limit my ability to manipulate the data on my machine in any way I desire. I want an operating system that doesn't pretend to know what's good for me better than I do myself, and I want an operating system that uses my computing resources efficiently.
In other words, I either want an updated XP Pro or OSX that will run on my own sweet hardware.
In regards to Microsoft's "commitment to Service Pack 3", I've got a sick feeling that XP SP3 is going to try to basically bolt on most of the horrible shit in Vista onto my XP system. Microsoft's clearly pissed that we haven't embraced their wonderful new OS and they're going to try to shove it down our throats.
I think what I really want is a third professional, commercial operating system that will run my software and light a fire under MS and Apple, perhaps convincing them that it's worthwhile to actually consider what their customers want. Their ability to make fat profits while ignoring customer satisfaction is not the way the "free market system" is supposed to work, and it speaks volumes about the disdain corporate America has for the rest of us.
I make a living using software that runs on XP Pro. But I am so sick of having companies like Microsoft disregard the desires of "the market" and act like the monopoly they are that not using Vista has become as much a political act than it is a consumer decision.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Don't be fooled by his attempt to confuse the issue. Microsoft Windows is EXPENSIVE, in my opinion, and becoming more so. We often have had to re-load Windows XP to remove system instability caused by sloppy coding and by system files modified by malware.
It has been more than 2 years since WinXP service pack 2 was released (August 25, 2004), even though updating Windows XP from an SP2 CD requires downloading more than 170 Megabytes of files, a difficult problem when there is no internet connection or only a dial-up connection. The Windows XP updates of just last Patch Tuesday were more than 20 Megabytes.
Microsoft seems to have delayed releasing an SP3 for Windows XP to try to discourage people from using their XP operating system. But the really major problems in Windows XP stopped only after the SP2 was released.
We have had eight different kinds of problems with Microsoft update; Microsoft Update gets my vote for the buggiest Microsoft software, and that's a tough title to get. Other people have many, many different kinds of problems with Windows Update. See, for example, Windows Update Discussion Group.
I'm guessing that tens or hundreds of millions of hours and billions of dollars are lost every year because of the sloppy coding in Windows XP. Steve Ballmer took Bill Gates' position as the Chief of Grief.
Corporate Rule: Never use a new version of Windows until after the 2nd service pack has been released, and others have had a chance to see if there are problems. It is expensive in re-training costs to use a different operating system, so a company that has a virtual monopoly can abuse the customer by releasing unfinished and sloppy software, and still not lose most of its customers.
Remember that the cost of Windows is much more than the cost of the OS itself for many reasons besides the high maintenance costs. Microsoft's biggest customers are the giant computer manufacturers, and they want to manipulate people to buy new computers. So, each new version of Microsoft Windows requires more powerful hardware. Those who use Windows are dragged through the adversarial business schemes of one of the most anti-customer large corporations in the world, in my opinion.
Microsoft Windows maintenance is so expensive that people throw away their computers and buy new ones because the maintenance cost is so high. See, for example, the New York Times article, Corrupted PC's Find New Home in the Dumpster. (Free NYT registration required.)
Many people depend for making a living on maintaining Microsoft Windows. Many of those people have no other way of making a living. They often try to confuse discussions of the maintenance costs of Windows and discussions of Microsoft's adversarial practices; don't be fooled by their misdirection.
I agree. I happened to buy a computer the first week Vista came out. I honestly didn't even realize it had come out. My old computer went bad and I needed a new one fast. I honestly can't see where all the gripes are. I leave it on all the time. It never crashes on me. It's only rebooted a couple of times because of certain updates it's gotten that required it (I know I know, why should an update require a reboot blah blah blah). It's really run like a dream. I don't have particularly fast hardware. It wasn't an expensive computer. I got it for $750 at Staples. I've never noticed a slow down because of aero. I run as a standard user and not as admin and the only time I get prompted for UAC is when I install something or I make system changes which is as it should be. (I had an issue with an HP program that assumed running as admin to check for updated drivers every day. Luckily that program was finally updated and so is no longer an issue.)
I mean honestly, what is the big problem? I keep reading articles and comments talking about how crappy Vista is and I just shake my head and say I don't get it. I don't know. I guess prejudices are hard to give up.
www.joshferguson.org
Let me know nine months from now if Vista can actually do anything for you that XP, Mac or gnu/linux could not do faster
My mother-in-law is a very unknowledgeable user. I bought her a computer a week after I bought mine and I set it up with Vista (came with XP but Vista had just been released so I got a free upgrade). My mother-in-law's biggest problem has always been her kids coming home to visit and downloading or installing crap. It's always been a challenge to lock her XP down. With Vista it's a piece of cake. She runs as a standard user and since she isn't a power user, she rarely has to be bothered by UAC. When she is, it's no big deal to enter the admin password. Now when I go to visit I don't have to spend hours cleaning off viruses and spyware. It all just works. She's never had an issue and I never have to fix something using the VNC server I installed on it like I used to with her XP.
As for faster, it really doesn't have a speed problem. I've never noticed any speed issue and that's with Aero running. It's an HP that I paid $650 for and it included a monitor. Not exactly high-end hardware.
www.joshferguson.org
XP user at work
Linux user at home
Vista user at home
Never had an issue with vista since I installed it right when it was first released. Runs well on my old Dell Domension 8300 box. Not crashed. Not slow when copying lots of files. I use it to serve all my MP3 (>250 Megs) throughout my house. I run NTI Shadow 3 in the background to backup My Docs, photos and music to my LACIE network drive. I run McAfee in the background and a bunch of other stuff. I'm not a tech-boy, I installed it myself and I use it for general home use. Honestly, I'm not seeing where the big issue is. It does it's job and that's all I ask it to do.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
- saving a wireless connection with no SSID;
- hibernating;
- coming back from hibernation;
- re-establishing a wireless connection AFTER coming back from hibernation (assuming you managed to get that far);
- checking your battery consumption
- ???
and then tell me there's nothing to complain about.Are you ready for that mouse driver to _maybe_ stop crashing your system?
Yeah, we thought so. Well, tough luck, pointdexter.
brian botkiller "Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance" - Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash
To speak of Vista's "failure" in the marketplace is desperately premature, if not inane.
A new OS or fork that fails to gain more than 4% of the user base in 9 months could only be considered a success in Redmond. We have already been through a Christmas and back to school sale. Why should next year be any different? M$ still thinks xbox and zune are competitive, so what do I know?
If you want to talk about desperate, think about M$'s position. Release a brand new OS and a brand new Office suit and then see no difference to your bottom line. See banks, airlines, hardware stores and others deploy rival software, "where it counts". See vendors sell the same rival software. Their software is buggy because they opted for the great content lockdown instead of taking care of things that mattered.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Runs on Linux and Windows, and doesn't need a TPM chip to operate. It'll create encrypted volumes from files, or work with raw devices, and also do "hidden volumes" in case you need plausible deniability - http://www.truecrypt.org/
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
From the comments I would propose that the traditional linux stronghold has been lost. Anyone making negative references to Microsoft products seems to be modded down and 'out yelled', whether the comments are on technical merits, anecdotal or opinionated, or derogatory.
Of course derogatory for its own sake should be modded down. Technical conversations should be directly rebuffed unless they are obvious lies (it goes both ways Twitter...). Anecdotal; ymmv. Opinionated should be reasoned with technical basis in a civil manner. Unfortunately civility is a dying characteristic [that is an unsubstantiated opinion modders] in the world in general following chivalry.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
Ick! XP is ugly and feels slow compared to Vista. There are so many little things you pick up, like there is finally an easy way to see the full path to running processes, once you try to support people using XP you just get frustrated! Vista is a huge improvement over XP.
That doesn't mean there aren't bugs. Their new TCP/IP stack has all kinds of bugs. There is a bug (and I'm too lazy to find the KB on it) that fucks up how it sends ACK's to other devices. As it turns out, it will hang the MediaMVP in my bedroom. Some vendors software gets buggy too - Vista changed a lot of the API for explorer (the file one, dammit!) that seems to crash TortiseSVN every now and then (though explorer.exe is the one that does the crashing...)
Given a little more time to mature, I suspect many people will look at this like XP vs 3.1. They really just look and act that much different.
I cannot wait to get Vista on my folks computer. My mother seems to trash their computer all the time. However, she'll aways call me whenever XP gives a "Are you sure, Dave?" message. With UAC, she'll be calling me every time she tries to install yet another DVD duplicator or some weird ass media player.
Or just try to use any version of Ciscos vpn software. Apparently the 5.0 version works *sometimes* and only on fresh installs of vista. I tried to verify it working on a fresh install of vista in a vm and it couldn't hold the vpn up for more than a few minutes at time. Back to XP I went...
I've been doing slashdot since like 97 - right around senior year in high school. Back then I would have been a good little member of the cult of RMS, I would have been all "fuck the man" for software patents, I pirated software like hell (even had a really good warez server when comcast was beta testing cable modems) and I had gigs of mp3's.
If I'm anything like other people on Slashdot, I'm now older and wiser. I am about to plunk down $1,600 on Photoshop/Dreamweaver. I bought and paid for all the software on all my computers including Visual Studio, Quickbooks and Office Pro. I own two Vista boxes, one XP box and a Mac laptop. I've got half a rack of linux gear in the Westin building, but I've grown too old to pull my hair out with it's stability and I'm moving the farm to FreeBSD. I cannot wait until my business grows to the size then I have to plunk down cash for a wicked cool "big iron" system.
I've been through Slashdot and got bored. I went to kuro5hin before it died. I trolled with the best on adequacy before it died. I tried digg until it turned into youtube without video. It has been 10 years and despite everything, slashdot is still here going strong. As much as people diss slashdot, it is the only website of it's type that is still around. It may have new ajax tricks, but it is still the same as it was in 1997.
So has the traditional Linux stronghold been lost, or has the general slashdot population just grown up, got jobs and now see linux for what it is? A tool just like any other tool. And that is okay.
7. Profit!!!!
My grandmother used anecdotal evidence all the time, and she lived to be 120 years old.
I don't think you are right. I bought a nice crap of the line dual core HP laptop with Vista Core 550$ added 50$ ram to bring it to 1.5 gigs. Hibernate as well as wifi work wonderfully. Standby is nice. I didn't used to have it so when I close the lid my laptop goes into standby. It is so fast now that I left it that way. Hibernation works alright but it seems to take a MUCH longer time to go into Hibernation. Coming out of hibernation is extremely quick though.
I thought I would hate Vista but it is alright when using the included programs. However a lot of my favorite programs like nero as well as many nice little things I run don't work right. Unless... you buy the upgrade. Same story as with XP but I really liked that upgrade and had no gripes with it whatsoever. I wasn't excited about XP but I loved it after I tried it out. Not really the same with Vista.
Vista is Ok for people who don't game. Maybe your error was in not buying a HP.... If you game like me the performance hit for Vista is wayy to much for me to deal with. There aren't any real great reasons to upgrade to vista you can already skin XP and get Yahoo widgets for free!