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What Vista SP1 Means To You
An anonymous reader writes "Geek.com has an interview with Nick White, Microsoft's Vista Product Manager, covering the upcoming release of Vista SP1. The interview goes over some of the new features, how the change will affect admins, and how Microsoft decides if a change should be rolled out as an update or as part of the service pack. One of the most interesting questions asks whether people should feel that they have to wait until SP1 to upgrade to the operating system, a common practice with Windows users. White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary and notes how Windows Update has lessened the importance of the release of a service pack. Just the same, a News.com article explores the possibility that this update will finally begin driving users to Vista."
Vista SP1 means fresh material to pick on Microsoft for. So now, instead of having a year of the same old "Vista sucks and is failing" articles on Slashdot day after day, we'll have fresh new material like "Vista SP1 sucks and is failing."
Didn't I just read in the Slashdot Vista news earlier "The service pack is said to improve performance and stability, not to add features."
and they failed to ship a finished product, imagine if MS made cars
I doubt it will "drive" users to vista saying previous service packs managed to drive users to buy iMac's and then MacBooks.
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
Hmmm -- nope. Nothing.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Unfortunately for Microsoft, Vista SP1 doesn't mean anything to the majority of computer users, and that trend is showing very little sign of changing. People that have been using Windows have been pretty happy with XP and Win2000. Surprising numbers of casual users still have '98. And increasing numbers of us are using something else entirely =)
So, with the service pack you're finally getting a stable product? Where's the value for all the money you're laying out? Pay hundreds of dollars, put up with anal probe product activation and wait almost a year for what you should have gotten in the first place.
I'm sure that makes sense on some planet...just not this one.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Mr. White's assertions aside, IMHO, MS is releasing this service pack as early as possible to entice people into believing Vista is "ready". The practice in the industry to wait for the first few updates is to firmly entrenched for them to simply "write it off".
And in my experience, lest my FOSS bias shine through, the idea of waiting for the first few updates goes for most software, not just Windows or other MS software.
Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
It means there is only one more service pack to go before I might consider thinking about adopting it.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
After flirting with Ubuntu on my laptop for about a year, and using Vista at home on my desktop for about 6 months I've had it, and I'll be switching the desktop to Linux as soon as I get some spare time.
From TFA:
"If you're an administrator, then you definitely have a lot more to look forward to when it comes to SP1. One thing that caught my eye was the additional ability in BitLocker to encrypt extra local volumes. Many enterprises still partition their workstations and laptops into a C and D drive. Since users are usually instructed to use the D drive to store their data, this means data was at risk if the enterprise also used BitLocker as a security measure, since D couldn't be previously encrypted."
Wait. Only C: could be locked? Full of fail.
So
I guess we're going to have to re-write the old "it's not a bug, it's a feature".
Meanwhile, we'll be seeing new bugs in the new "functionality" that is not a new "feature".
Maybe a massive bugfix so I can install and use it finally? Or is this just a small patch to an OS going down in history as a Windows ME Second edition
Trolls are like broken clocks. They show the truth two times a day. The rest of the day they talk nonsense.
This seems semi-ridiculous.
But I'll say the same thing here that I did last time. Basically, the reason that SP1 isn't as big as deal as a "Service Pack" normally is, is that the two "main" updates that will provide a different end-user experience have already been released.
The main "other" thing that SP1 will offer, which apparently wasn't confirmed by Nick White's post, is Paul Thurrott's statement (echoed by others, but which he has now stepped back from until he can get confirmation) that Vista SP1 will include a kernel update to 6.1. This would be the same kernel that will be in Windows Server 2008.
My friend Bastille.
But that ball ain't a ball
Irony can only forstall
Knowing that which a clever little word trick cannot reveal.
"One of the most interesting questions asks if whether people should feel like that have to wait until SP1 to upgrade to the operating system, "
Interesting question? You seriously need a life.
And what was the anticipated answer? "Speaking as the product Manager I seriously recommend you don't upgrade to it until we manage to fix it up."
Wanna buy a bridge?
Yeah, I know everyone I talk to has been saying the only reason they don't switch to Vista is because there's no service pack out for it. Yup, it definitely has nothing to do with shoddy driver support from 3rd party manufacturers, or things like UAC. It's definitely been the lack of a service pack.
Honestly, is this seriously what passes of journalism these days??
Wow, I didn't know you could remove bloat with a Service Pack.
I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
Hopefully by the time I'm forced into using Vista, SP1 and the other SP's will be included on the Vista disc.
I'll tell you what it means to me - Windows XP 64-bit. I "upgraded" to Vista early in the summer, and I kept telling myself through all the headaches that I'd just wait it out until SP1. Now that that's not until next year, I've decided I'm no longer waiting. Instead, I'm switching to XP 64-bit, which appears to have a lot more driver support than the last time I tried it. There's no way I'm going to wait until Q1 2008 for a service pack that might fix my issues, especially if, according to Microsoft, service packs are less important now that Windows Update is widely used.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary
Sure, it's no longer necessary because the OS will STILL be a piece of shit after the service pack.
I get to continue feeling happy about my Fedora box.
it means that we will have a flood of articles about Vista SP1, just like the initial flood of Vista articles. Seeing as there's now 2 articles already inside an hour.... I shudder to think how many we will see until March 2008.. or whenever SP1 comes out.
What can someone be xpected to say about a mere Statement of Intent from Microsoft, about a Service Pack.... which right thinking people would expect a big comapny to release RIGJHT NOW and solve teething troubles faced by Vista users daily?
The schedule for SP1 indicates MS is under zero pressure to deliver anything or do anything innovative. No point fantasizing about it.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Isn't it a bit early for a SP1 compared to the release date of XP and it's first SP1? .. or Windows 2000 SP1?
Have a squat over at the hobo house.
Products that start their lives perceived as having a very high suck factor will end their lives with much the same perception. There is little that can be done once a products suck level (read: consumer perception) has been determined.
load "$",8,1
Just like Windows eventually caught up to Mac with Windows95 and then exceeded it with Windows 2000, Microsoft will once again catch up to Mac OS X with an eventual improved version of Vista that looks and feels as good.
When that time comes Apple faithful will rant "Mac's had that for 5 years!" and it won't matter anymore. Apple had better get innovating the next major killer features fast, because Microsoft is always improving.
Seriously,
Vista was supposed to be released in ?
Vista was proclaimed as ready... oops
How many times do people have to be fooled before they realise that the next release from MS will also be a disappointment?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
On the downside, it's the IT equivalent of working with raw sewage.
We, the raw sewage community, take umbrage with that remark.
Historically, Microsoft's service packs have brought bigger changes than mere patches. With XP, SP2 changed and added a lot of things despite having had Windows Update available for years.
I run a Linux box at home, game on a PS3. My wife uses a Mac laptop. At work, we use Linux and Windows XP. Our IT refuses to deal with Vista.
So it means nothing to me.
The cake is a pie
The first "enhancement" is hardly one, rather a fix for a serious flaw, but that has been poited out by others. The second one, however. is really interesting - if I recall correctly, it was possible to select individual volumes for defragmentation since Windows 95 or so - is that their new marketing technique? Omit something ridiculously obvious, that has been there for ages, in the first version - just to claim having done more and more "enhancements" in the Service Packs?
This is Slashdot. Common sense is futile. You will be modded down.
* A minimum of 7 GB free disk space on the system partition for x86-based operating systems and a minimum of 12 GB free disk space for x64-based operating systems.
They say the drive space will only be used temporarily, and I know drive space is cheap these days. But what about people with laptops that are pushing their hard drives near the limit?
Vista, a visa for the tourista!
Yes, Vista has failed and there are signs of it everyday. The stink is especially obvious when, former advocates in the tech press apologize for saying Vista was worth buying, and many other editors agree.
I can understand why Nick White would want you to buy Vista, but I don't see any real changes that address the problems people are having. He can say whatever he wants about process, it's product that counts.
M$ has burnt a lot of what little credibility it had left with Vista. Apologies from editors are not going to do the trick as long as there is real fair and independent review of performance. Windoze users have waited seven years for an upgrade and they can easily afford to wait another to see if Vista has anything that warrents it's cost and restrictions.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The $500 dual core laptop with Vista home pro pre-installed is the most effective way to spread Vista - and that's exactly what's happening.
It has started a huge shift from desktop computers to laptops, just check out your local stores. I picked up a decent HP dual core, 1 GB memory, 80GB HD, DVD-RW, firewire for my daughter to replace her aging desktop.
Since Vista was pre-installed, everything works, of course. I would not want to switch over to Vista, but since it's included in the $500 laptop price, and it would cost me $160 to get an XP OEM plus my time, there is really no incentive to change it. I don't know how much HP paid for Vista, but with the $500 laptop price it felt like Vista was free.
With this price drop I suspect mass migration to laptops - at least for home users and the spread of Vista.
Personally I feel bad for my sister who will have to use it. I'd recomend she use Ubuntu instead, but she lives in another country and I won't be able to help her, and she doesn't feel prepared to try it on her own. I guess she would probably manage just fine, but sadly she doesn't even want to give it a shot. Oh well...
one step down, 1,000 to go!
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Thank you very much, Apple.
Vista having an enhanced command prompt makes Linux lose its single advantage.
:(
RIP Linux 2008 -- Was never ready for the desktop
Linux violates 235 Microsoft patents.
Another patch, late as usual, that doesn't address the underlining architectural issues, and that should have been fix in the initial release. Oh, by the way, we get to play more of the "Which Build" you got game with service support.
After 25 years of this: "Let me off this Merry-Go-Round"
(I am not sure how to be more clear)
Love the nothing tag! Kudos to whomever it concerns! xD
... that Microsoft should spend more money in bug fixing and for faster update release.
None can be perfect, software can always contain bugs. But being dull and dumb with bugs and security holes is deliberate stupidity.
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
You know something's wrong when you're talking about driving people to use software rather than attracting them to it.
DNA just wants to be free...
"White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary and notes how Windows Update has lessened the importance of the release of a service pack."
Within a week of problems with WGA validation (which Windows Update requires) and, just today, evidence of the apparently high popularity of Autopatcher because of the inadequacy of Microsoft's solutions. For offline users or those at the end of a narrow network pipe Windows Update is a huge pain in the butt (no, WSUS isn't an easy solution for most people, and it's a heck of a lot of hassle if all you want to do is take a CD to update a family member's machine out of town). The rarity of service packs that roll all those patches into one download is a problem. If Microsoft wanted to help its customers better it would always provide a *single* downloadable package representing all the patches to date from the last service pack. Apple provides this sort of thing in the form of "combo updates". What's so difficult about that? They should be checking that the various patches don't interfere with previous ones anyway.
I think you need to stop looking at things as black and white. Its not "stable vs. unstable."
Performance issues are important, even to the absurdly forgiving Windoze crowd. Even in a monopoly, the market can object.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I used to know a guy on a campus social sciences mailing list that could not discuss Islam or Islamic society without using the term "islamofascist". Every single time. And all his references were to blog entries he had written, most of which were plain wrong or simple misrepresented facts. It gets old after a while, but more importantly it's the equivalent to using "poopyhead" when talking about someone you don't like. It's impossible to have conversations of any sort with people like that.
It's funny that you talk about Microsoft's credibility here, given that your slaughter of intelligent discourse also eliminates most of yours.
I like Slashdot but lately it's becoming more and more like Digg.
Bah, I have had 100% software compatibility with Vista so far, and I'm even using x64 version. Yes, it's a new version, and yes, there's the possibility of incompatibilities to arise, but people need to quit being such crybabies having never even used it.
Click it and weep, boys:
http://thinktanktraining.com/vistax64
Bill Gates, if you're reading this, hook me up with a laptop, and I'll tell everyone how much I like Vista, which is true, which is the only reason why I would extend this offer.
Short list of reasons I like Vista:
* The Aero Glass theme is very nice and very clean looking.
* The start button enhancements are fantastic. I love the instant search box.
* The sidebar is very well executed, and I especially like the default picture slideshow.
* Runs great and fast for everyday use (ie, not multitasking WoW) on 1gig ram (2 is better).
* Solid as a f'n rock, and I don't say that lightly.
* "Poor" driver support is still easier than dealing with Linux, 95% automatic so far, and I'm actually fairly good with Linux.
* Window-Tab.
* Boots fast.
Suck it, haters. Vista==100% satisfaction. And I'm not fanboy, I just believe in giving credit where credit is due, and frankly I think Vista is getting a raw deal. I'll never forgive you farkers for putting me in the position of having to defend Microsoft.
-=-=-=-=-
UPDATE:
I added a new 8600gt video card ($112) and an extra 2 gigs of ram ($90 for 3gigs total) and a new AMD x2 2.2ghz chip ($65, up from a single core 1.8), and the machine just smokes. It boots fast, runs stable, etc. It now multitasks WoW like a dream with the game running at 1152x864 in a window.
I've been doing some programming in vb.net 2005, and that is going swimmingly. I tried quake 4 (which is admittedly a little older, and it sucks) but it ran smoothly. My Vista x64 Business machine (that I'm typing on) still kicks tremendous quantities of butt daily. My Vista 32 laptop still hums along quietly, ripping dvd's to my wife's ipod, pumping music to the stereo, connecting to the net from anywhere via at&t's 3g (I hate at&t, but work provided it). The laptop also has full and proper power management. My other buddy here at work has vista on his desktop here, and he doesn't even click over to his old xp machine anymore.
Overall rating: GOOD. Not great, not tremendous, not suck. GOOD. Wholly adequate with a strong hint of pleasant.
My only complaint so far is with the UAC, which I actually quite like for myself, but I hate it when I'm on the phone with people and I tell them to do something, and they INSIST on reading the damn message. Look, jerky, I told you to run the damn program, so yes allow it, please. Alternately, you could click cancel, and we can sit here and think about what it would be like if you knew how to follow instructions. Ehh.. I guess the new search kind of sucks too.
I'm with you on the marketing BS, though, like DX10 being vista only and DRM (not that it's bit me yet) and shenanigans like that. Microsoft is still evil, but when you exaggerate the problems and, in the same breath, push Linux, it comes across as desperate. Windows doesn't have to suck for Linux to be good too.
Read the sig...
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Well, I hope that SP1 can fix the incredibly stupid problem I'm having on my LAN. I can surf teh intarweb through my linux-based router just fine. I can ping my router. I can't actually connect to the router though, via http/ssh/ftp/samba. I can't connect to other devices on my network either. All of them responds to pings, but it's impossible to connect. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE CODERS? How on earth can such a problem pass any kind of "quality control"?
Ok well since I use my Mac and love it, vista SP1 means i have to read all about you windoze users bitchin as usual about M$ shitty products and how the SP wont fix the problems and how screwed you are. Well that sux for you doesnt it :). I mean when Apple comes out w/ new versions of OSX i cant get down to my local store fast enough. You know no OS is perfect but OSX comes really close. Maybe you should crawl out from the rocks you've been under and actually try something else for a change, maybe something that just works like hmmmm say....Mac OSX. I mean if you dont like it you can always install some other third rate OS onto your very sexy Mac hardware including that bloated spaggetti mess of code that is Vista/longhorn. No confirm or deny FTW!!
And I like it like that.
At least Vista cut down on the number of complaints about XP.
Windows Vista, making XP look good for 7 months now.
I read this with a twinge of curiosity. Vista Home Ultimate came on the new Dell system I received a couple months ago. While the novelty of Vista's graphical enhancements wore off quickly, my irritation at a litany of Vista bugs did not. They include:
, linux/article.html
- Two year old Netgear 802.11g wireless card being virtually impossible to install
- Crackling, popping audio in World of Warcraft (and other games) from the built in audio that defied repeated attempts to fix via driver upgrades
--- Disabled said audio in BIOS, inserted Creative Sound Blaster 5.1 digital PCI card. Guess what? VISTA INCOMPATIBLE. Creative. THE standard. in.com.patible with Vista's DRM-heavy digital device list. Back to crackling, popping on board audio. So annoying I resorted to playing WoW with no sound.
- ATI HDTv Wonder PCI card installation - wasted time. Windows Media Center could not tune ANYTHING with any degree of quality when the same card + antenna did brilliantly on my old Win XP box. Furthermore, exhaustive forum searching reveals that Media Center actually cripples the driver for the HD tuner, making it so that you can tune OTA content, OR CATV content, but NOT BOTH. You have to install a hacked up driver from some shady 3rd party website to use the full functionality of your TV card. Again, the ATI product does not appear on Microsoft's DRM-heavy "approved digital device" list.
- On board gigabit ethernet adapter's network configuration would randomly disappear and have to be reconfigured when the computer was hard rebooted for any reason, including power outages, or video lockups, leading us to..
- NVidia GForce 7300 PCI Express card included with machine worked flawlessly as delivered, BUT after Microsofts last "patch Tuesday" a few weeks ago, the video would not 'wake up' after the machine had been put to sleep. The "sleep mode" suspend worked great until the last security patch.. It makes no sense to me either. After the patch, the video would not wake with the rest of the system, forcing a hard poweroff/restart, causing the network setting to disappear.. HALF the time.
-
So, two nights ago, after backing up, I took my freshly burned Ubuntu 7.04 cd, took a deep breath, and installed. I can get around in Linux, but I am by no means an expert. My installation was smooth. In less than 90 minutes, using Automatix, I had every plugin, driver, and application I could ever want to make my system perform properly. Nvidia OpenGL driver automatically configured, all video/flash plugins for Firefox, DVD playback, the whole 9 yards. Additionally, using the step-by step copy and paste instructions from the ubuntu website, I had Wine installed, and had configured it properly to run World of Warcraft.
So here I sit. World of Warcraft runs smoothly. Audio is CRYSTAL CLEAR, my Soundblaster Live 5.1 card is supported, no popping, clicking audio. I play the game at 1680x1050 with almost all detail settings turned on at a very smooth framerate. I visit CNN.com and view all embedded video seamlessly, no plugin errors or other irritants. When I need to type papers for college, I have OpenOffice. Ipod works flawlessly with podcast management program.
Why do I need Vista again?
------
Make World of Warcraft work flawlessy in Ubuntu with Wine:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WorldofWarcraft
PC World's noob-friendly "Seven Post-Install Tips for Unbuntu 7.04" :
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130923-page,1-c
THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.
Looks like Apple's got some innovative plans in the works . . .
Should this come to pass, would we have to re-work the "If Microsoft built a car" jokes?
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
How, pray tell, is this comment insightful? All it essentially states is one user's experience which led him / her to a desire to switch to Linux. I strongly prefer Linux to Windows myself, but the fact that this was modded as "insightful" is absurd. There's a lot of complaining on /. about Mac fanboysm, but Linux fanboyism is just as - if not moreso - rampant as evidenced by the modding up of this post and other posts that essentially state "I like Linux" with more verboseness.
No offense to the parent poster; your experience is valid and I appreciate you sharing it with us. However, there's nothing really insightful about it.
two articles in a day about something that doesn't mean anything to anybody with a brain enough to avoid it, just means that slashdot is looking into MS for sponsorship, now that their stock (LNUX) has been downgraded...
Ab-so-lute-ly nuthin. Say it agin.
Personally, I do anything important on my Linux box (including managing my investments online, storing copies of my statements, any hobby creative work, etc.). I also have my entire music collection on my Linux box. It is nice and secure and works very well and very affordably (and no unwanted spying on me or blackbox vendor-lock-in you-can't-do-that bullcrap software).
I have my windoze machine for one reason and one reason only: games.
I don't mind if M$ spies on my gaming machine...all they will see are my scores.
I won't upgrade to Vista until Blizzard upgrades World of Warcrack to Vista.
Microsoft's upcoming release of a 650+ meg service pack of stablity, security, and usability patches will make me want to buy Vista.
I really need the DRM infection. I want the "root-kit of the week" delivered by removable media. I really want to have WGA lock my computer down because it can't verify my installation. I want to have 10-25% of my availabe network bandwidth unavailable to communicate with their intelligence agency of choise. I want my 'secured' drives to be 100% readable by anyone with the back-door key to the government approved encryption scheme. I really want to get force-fed advertising that worms it's way through the buffer-overflow holes in the browser. I'm eagerly awaiting securely storing my private financial information on their secure servers. But the thing that I am really looking forwards to is coping with the worms, virii and trojans that will propogate through the monoculture like wildfire during the weeks it takes Microsoft to come out with a patch for that service that you can 'disable' but not 'turn off'.
After seeing the disasters that were Windows XP SP1 & SP2, I have no faith in Microsoft's ability to come up with an operating system that is stable, responsive, secure and usable. They seem to only be able to come out with operating systems that possess two of those four attributes.
I've been dual-booting Microsoft and Linux since MS-DOS 6.2 and 0.99.xx, but my current machine is the last one. The next desktop I build will be a Linux box, and only a Linux box.
Is anyone else getting sick of tags that "answer" the question asked in the subject? It's fine that Vista SP1 means nothing to you...but I really don't need to see it. Can we just ban people that add stupid tags?
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
Windows XP SP2 is almost a completely different OS than what shipped in a shrink wrapped box in 2001. The article completely glosses over that point, and stresses the virtues of Windows Update. Which, if I recall correctly, existed before XP SP2. So... ?
I'm a 2000 man.
So in one breath you complain that it took them 7 years to push out a buggy piece of shit ... and then in the very next breath, you'll suggest they should have waited 8 years to push out a slightly LESS buggy piece of shit ?
... but either way, you'd still be able to complain, so that's okay then.
If they ironed out every last bug and made a perfect piece of golden code, it would take them (OR ANYONE ELSE for that matter, a lifetime)
One of the usual gadflies steps up to defend Vista after less than a day of use:
It's clear that our idea of "clean" is different, but the opinion I have comes from others who have worked with Vista for months. People like this really should not have problems. "Ordinary" users have told me worse things. No one, not even dedicated people who have managed to make Vista work, has told me that the system is ready. Let me know nine months from now if Vista can actually do anything for you that XP, Mac or gnu/linux could not do faster. Until then, Vista is crater that's sucking a large chunk of the PC industry down with it.
Everyone should be pissed that the reason for these bugs and performance hits are tools designed to keep you from making copies of your media files and run things from competitors. I know those kinds of things don't bother you, but they do bother me and many others. I have serious doubts in M$'s willingness or ability to pull those restrictions out or make them really work. This is not another ME change the interface and and rename it problem. This is a problem of effort wasted on things that thwart competition and the customer.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I've deployed Vista at home in a VMWare 5.5 virtual machine. It is the only way I can make sure my wife doesn't crater my XP machine. The day I saw her clicking at the internet fart button was the last straw. She has been banished to a virtual Vista with IE7 in protected mode.
On another note, OpenOffice.Org 2.2.1 works pretty good with Vista.
Where's the 0xBEEF
Don't be fooled by his attempt to confuse the issue. Microsoft Windows is EXPENSIVE, in my opinion, and becoming more so. We often have had to re-load Windows XP to remove system instability caused by sloppy coding and by system files modified by malware.
It has been more than 2 years since WinXP service pack 2 was released (August 25, 2004), even though updating Windows XP from an SP2 CD requires downloading more than 170 Megabytes of files, a difficult problem when there is no internet connection or only a dial-up connection. The Windows XP updates of just last Patch Tuesday were more than 20 Megabytes.
Microsoft seems to have delayed releasing an SP3 for Windows XP to try to discourage people from using their XP operating system. But the really major problems in Windows XP stopped only after the SP2 was released.
We have had eight different kinds of problems with Microsoft update; Microsoft Update gets my vote for the buggiest Microsoft software, and that's a tough title to get. Other people have many, many different kinds of problems with Windows Update. See, for example, Windows Update Discussion Group.
I'm guessing that tens or hundreds of millions of hours and billions of dollars are lost every year because of the sloppy coding in Windows XP. Steve Ballmer took Bill Gates' position as the Chief of Grief.
Corporate Rule: Never use a new version of Windows until after the 2nd service pack has been released, and others have had a chance to see if there are problems. It is expensive in re-training costs to use a different operating system, so a company that has a virtual monopoly can abuse the customer by releasing unfinished and sloppy software, and still not lose most of its customers.
Remember that the cost of Windows is much more than the cost of the OS itself for many reasons besides the high maintenance costs. Microsoft's biggest customers are the giant computer manufacturers, and they want to manipulate people to buy new computers. So, each new version of Microsoft Windows requires more powerful hardware. Those who use Windows are dragged through the adversarial business schemes of one of the most anti-customer large corporations in the world, in my opinion.
Microsoft Windows maintenance is so expensive that people throw away their computers and buy new ones because the maintenance cost is so high. See, for example, the New York Times article, Corrupted PC's Find New Home in the Dumpster. (Free NYT registration required.)
Many people depend for making a living on maintaining Microsoft Windows. Many of those people have no other way of making a living. They often try to confuse discussions of the maintenance costs of Windows and discussions of Microsoft's adversarial practices; don't be fooled by their misdirection.
I have very very good luck with Windows - I grew up using MS-DOS and kind of kept up to date as things rolled out so I know enough ins and outs to keep it running well.
Generally my installations are conflict-free, fast, stable (OS crashing... doesn't happen. Period. The odd app dies time to time.) no viruses, no exploits, etc... I had a trojan about ten years ago but that was the last one.
Then again, I almost never install Windows before the first service pack. Win95 OSR1 was ok, OSR2 was so fast and stable for me. Win98 was a pig, then Win98 SE was a well-dressed pig (haha...) and by the end I didn't really want to get rid of it since I had it working... PRETTY well. NT, 2k... never used at home. WinXP/2003 have been amazing for me; I started at XP SP1, but 2003 was the original release. I never thought I'd see Windows run rock-solid for years, but here it is. I guess others aren't always so lucky but at work we have thousands of WinXP SP2 installations that work great.
Will Windows Update lessen the need for major service packs? Did it in Win98? Did it in ME? Did it in XP? Not really... why should it be any different for Vista? I'll probably move to Vista eventually, but I don't think SP1 will even be enough - it sounds like there are a lot of dealbreakers in it and clearly I'm on the pro-Windows side of things. Also there isn't much incentive to move right now. The only thing I really want out of XP right now is better multiprocessor support. The security does suck, but I find running from behind a firewall/router with a bit of common sense in daily operation keeps it well safe enough.
Vista is a nice set of ideas, but I think they need to just bite the bullet and "BeOS it," drop backwards compatibility ONCE, and rewrite from scratch for modern systems. Do it like MacOS X and include an older legacy supporting version with it. It's not a smooth migration, but the disruption would be worth having everything done right - assuming they actually do it right. Multiprocessor support to at least 64 CPUs. Throw away everything to do with networking. Burn it. Do it from square one. They have the money. They have more than capable coders. They might even have business systems analysts who understand how to manage it (MIGHT!) Then choosing the best OS wouldn't be so much about the lesser of the evils. (Don't start about Linux... It's fine in the right cases, but I don't have any use or time for the dozen distros/versions I've run over the last 10 years. I'll keep checking in periodically but it's just not a practical solution for me or any company I've worked for.)
CORRECTION: I should have said, "It has been more than 3 years since WinXP service pack 2 was released..."
Nobody, not even utter fanboys, thought that pre-SP Vista would be worthwhile. MS know they have to release an SP to make people interested. It gives them a way to wipe the slate clean.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Not a god-damned thing.
I had such a miserable experience running Vista for two weeks (on a fairly ballsy PC - AMD Athlon fx 4000 w/ 4 gb RAM, gamer-quality video card, etc.). Sorry, but you'd have to point a gun to my head to get me to do that again.
This was the last Windows PC in my otherwise all-Mac house. Tomorrow I'm replacing it with a new Mac Mini Core2Duo. Probably just redeploy the PC as a home network server.
If you love Vista, great, I'm not trying to piss on your parade. I will admit the Aero interface is very pretty. Hardly makes up for random blue-screen/reboots several times a day. Yes, this was a fresh install, not an upgrade version.
This is just one man's experience......
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
I found I often needed to change my user agent in Firefox to report that I was using IE on Windows to use a particular site that "required it" (IE, developer didn't want to test it on other platforms but it worked just fine). I told it to report I was using Windows and IE when I was actually using Ubuntu and Firefox. There are a lot of times I forgot to change it back for months or more.
I'm sure that OSX/Safari and OSX/Firefox people experience the same thing. Now there's now way for me to know the actual impact this would have on the numbers, but I'd like to point out that it could possibly be significant. May not even be 1%, may be higher - I know people that just change their user agent whenever they install on a box so they don't get annoyed by IE-only sites.
Security improvements that will be in Windows Vista SP1 include:
* Provides security software vendors a more secure way to communicate with Windows Security Center.
* Includes application programming interfaces (APIs) by which third-party security and malicious software detection applications can work with kernel patch protection on x64 versions of Windows Vista. These APIs help ISVs develop software that extends the functionality of the Windows kernel on x64 computers without disabling or weakening the protection offered by kernel patch protection.
* Improves the security of running RemoteApp programs and desktops by allowing Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) files to be signed. Customers can differentiate user experiences based on publisher identity.
* Adds an Elliptical Curve Cryptography (ECC) pseudo-random number generator (PRNG) to the list of available PRNGs in Windows Vista.
* Enhances BitLocker Drive Encryption (BDE) to offer an additional multifactor authentication method that combines a key protected by the Trusted Platform Module (TPM) with a Startup key stored on a USB storage device and a user-generated personal identification number (PIN).
Reliability
Windows Vista SP1 will include improvements that target some of the most common causes of crashes and hangs, giving users a more consistent experience. Many of these improvements will specifically address issues identified from the Windows Error Reporting tool. The following list describes some of the reliability improvements that Windows Vista SP1 will include:
* Improved reliability and compatibility of Windows Vista when used with newer graphics cards in several specific scenarios and configurations.
* Improved reliability when working with external displays on a laptop.
* Improved Windows Vista reliability in networking configuration scenarios.
* Improved reliability of systems that were upgraded from Windows XP to Windows Vista.
* Increased compatibility with many printer drivers.
* Increased reliability and performance of Windows Vista when entering sleep and resuming from sleep.
Performance
The following list describes some of the performance improvements that Windows Vista SP1 will include:
* Improves the speed of copying and extracting files.
* Improves the time to become active from Hibernate and Resume modes.
* Improves the performance of domain-joined PCs when operating off the domain; in the current release version of Windows Vista, users would experience long delays when opening the File dialog box.
* Improves performance of Windows® Internet Explorer® 7 in Windows Vista, reducing CPU utilization and speeding JavaScript parsing.
* Improves battery life by reducing CPU utilization by not redrawing the screen as frequently, on certain computers.
* Improves the logon experience by removing the occasional 10-second delay between pressing CTRL-ALT-DEL and the password prompt displaying.
* Addresses an issue in the current version of Windows Vista that makes browsing network file shares consume significant bandwidth and not perform as fast as expected.
I'm not going to install Vista SP1 unless they make sure to add the feature of not totally sucking. Even then, Gutsy is just so pretty, I doubt I will bother.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
someone named plague, claims Vista is "stable" and blithers
Stability and performance are not the same. I never said performance was not an issue, nor did I say stability was unimportant...
Without stability you don't get performance of anykind. The fact remains that adding Vista to any computer is both a performance and stability hit with little to justify it.
I'm happy for you if Vista does anything right and is worth your use, but really I think you are a liar. More reliable people than you have thrown in the towel on Vista.
enough with your stupid journal already
If you don't like it, don't click through. Stick your head in the sand while Steve and Bill throw chairs. I like my little list and there's something new to add to it almost every day.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Here is a trend of Google's search term for "Vista":
http://google.ca/trends?q=vista
Note how the curve peaks when Vista is released, then it drops, levels off, and now it's slowly moving up again. Of course, this doesn't directly mean anything at all, but it could mean a slow increase of recent interest in the OS. Or searches from frustrated users whom have recently purchased a computer with Vista included.
Didn't I just read in the Slashdot Vista news earlier "The service pack is said to improve performance and stability, not to add features."
M$ often gives out contradictory statements. Their business model is as new feature free as Windoze itself.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
They can drive me there, but they can't make me get out of the car. I'll stick with Mac OS X and Kubuntu for my day-to-day needs, and XP and its more reasonable license agreement for the stuff I need to do in Windows.
Losing your karma bonus sucks, doesn't it, Twitter?
Are you ready for that mouse driver to _maybe_ stop crashing your system?
Yeah, we thought so. Well, tough luck, pointdexter.
brian botkiller "Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance" - Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash
To speak of Vista's "failure" in the marketplace is desperately premature, if not inane.
A new OS or fork that fails to gain more than 4% of the user base in 9 months could only be considered a success in Redmond. We have already been through a Christmas and back to school sale. Why should next year be any different? M$ still thinks xbox and zune are competitive, so what do I know?
If you want to talk about desperate, think about M$'s position. Release a brand new OS and a brand new Office suit and then see no difference to your bottom line. See banks, airlines, hardware stores and others deploy rival software, "where it counts". See vendors sell the same rival software. Their software is buggy because they opted for the great content lockdown instead of taking care of things that mattered.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Runs on Linux and Windows, and doesn't need a TPM chip to operate. It'll create encrypted volumes from files, or work with raw devices, and also do "hidden volumes" in case you need plausible deniability - http://www.truecrypt.org/
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Another problem is this; all the atlernatives have terrible power management; for example, I tried Fedora 7, SLED 10 SP1, Solaris Express B70 (upgraded to B71) and all of them fail misserably to actually manage my power and enable me to use my computer off battery for longer than 1 hour.
This is not a troll, I'd love to see more competition but I (along with others) aren't going to bend over backwards and sacrifice functionality for the sake of 'sticking it to the man'.
From the comments I would propose that the traditional linux stronghold has been lost. Anyone making negative references to Microsoft products seems to be modded down and 'out yelled', whether the comments are on technical merits, anecdotal or opinionated, or derogatory.
Of course derogatory for its own sake should be modded down. Technical conversations should be directly rebuffed unless they are obvious lies (it goes both ways Twitter...). Anecdotal; ymmv. Opinionated should be reasoned with technical basis in a civil manner. Unfortunately civility is a dying characteristic [that is an unsubstantiated opinion modders] in the world in general following chivalry.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
Is one of those new features - like - not bluescreening every time I add a new device?
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
Nothing. Only one computer runs XP for 1 Windiz hardware. That hardware will not mutate to require Vista, so Vista has no meaning to me. Kubuntu & Suse for all other computer needs.
Yes, anyone who dares suggest that Vista is not the existencial nightmare you claim it is is a liar.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
...in the entire world that is happy with my move to Windows Vista?
Sure, there were some annoyances early on (all video card related), but these issues have all gone away. Once AMD released mature video drivers for my x1950pro, my machine has been running the way I expect it to (with no issues).
Microsoft deserves a lot of the things people say about them, but I can't believe the number of people who don't have any real experience with Vista that chime in saying "ha, ha, Vista is crap."
Admittedely I was nervous about going to Vista when I did (March of this year), but I was building a new computer at the time, and figured I may as well try it out. I could always go back to XP if Vista really was as bad as people were claiming.
I would try 64-bit Linux before trying XP-64 or Vista-64. It has essentially equal driver support to the 32-bit version, since almost all drivers are built from source (and I know for sure the binary nvidia driver supports 64-bit; I think the ATI does too.)
If I were going to go for it, I'd run Ubuntu. Basically the only difference in terms of compatibility from a 32-bit system is some kludging to get the (32-bit only) flash plugin going; I think either you install 32-bit firefox, or use some plugin shim. Unless you're running gentoo (where you do everything yourself pretty much) modern distros will smooth this over for you I think.
I know it's a big change, but if you're serious about 64-bit computing that really is the way to go.
White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary and notes how Windows Update has lessened the importance of the release of a service pack
.NET 1.1. To get a stable .NET install, you need to first install .NET 1.1. Then you need to install 1.1.SP1, because there is no installer with SP1 slipstremed in. Then you have to install two seperate hotfixes. I'm sorry I don't have the KB numbers. That's FOUR installers (if you're using Windows update, 2 reboots) to get you up to the latest version.
I, for one, cannot stand Microsoft's ignorance when it comes to rollups and Service Packs. Windows XP, slipstremed with Service Pack 2, still requires 80+ patches and at least 2 reboots to finish patching. At one point it looked like Microsoft was going to be releasing more rollups, which means less actual patches to apply. The "Internet Explorer Cumulative Security Patch" is a step in the right direction. At least you can be reasonably assured that if you patch yourself with said patch, IE is relatively up to date.
One package that's been pissing me off lately is
Message to Microsoft: we WANT rollups and service packs!!! Windows Update is a pain in the ass!!!!!
If nothing else, I'd like to see a method of downloading all patches since SP2 into a single installer, so I could easily build an offline installer kit. Install XP with SP2 slipstremed, install the patch kit, done without a network connection (and saving HOURS of patch downloading time).
I installed sp1 back in September many, many, many times. My first attempts were not so great, because well I didn't know how to properly build sp1, and well the speed really sucked. After some bugs were fixed, ect... it was time to prove it was better than the install times of XP. All that delta compression along with the new dependency tree would ensure that the update was more efficient and more importantly it allows uninstall of the SP to actually work. Oh and for those of you who don't know, SP1 will be build 6001. As the last 4 bits of the build number actually refer to the SP level. The developers wanted it a multiple of 16 to prevent collisions, while the marketing team wanted it to be a multiple of 10 for well, marketing reasons. So for the last month or so build numbers were incremented by 80. Mind you Vista actually missed 6000 by about 2 builds. But they just pretended it was 6000 since it looks so nice.
I, for one, welcome our new SP1 overloards. (Not really, but it will generate a whole shitload of billable hours).
I've been doing slashdot since like 97 - right around senior year in high school. Back then I would have been a good little member of the cult of RMS, I would have been all "fuck the man" for software patents, I pirated software like hell (even had a really good warez server when comcast was beta testing cable modems) and I had gigs of mp3's.
If I'm anything like other people on Slashdot, I'm now older and wiser. I am about to plunk down $1,600 on Photoshop/Dreamweaver. I bought and paid for all the software on all my computers including Visual Studio, Quickbooks and Office Pro. I own two Vista boxes, one XP box and a Mac laptop. I've got half a rack of linux gear in the Westin building, but I've grown too old to pull my hair out with it's stability and I'm moving the farm to FreeBSD. I cannot wait until my business grows to the size then I have to plunk down cash for a wicked cool "big iron" system.
I've been through Slashdot and got bored. I went to kuro5hin before it died. I trolled with the best on adequacy before it died. I tried digg until it turned into youtube without video. It has been 10 years and despite everything, slashdot is still here going strong. As much as people diss slashdot, it is the only website of it's type that is still around. It may have new ajax tricks, but it is still the same as it was in 1997.
So has the traditional Linux stronghold been lost, or has the general slashdot population just grown up, got jobs and now see linux for what it is? A tool just like any other tool. And that is okay.
I heard that Vista SP1 was really just upgrading Vista users to a non-server version Win2008. Does this mean that the OS version number is changing to 6.1?
I wish Microsoft had made XP SP2 upgrade everyone to Win2003 (NT 5.2).
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
By rounding you managed to gloss over an interesting piece of data: OS X has increased from 2.8 ( Jan '05) to 4.0 (July '07) and Linux has increased from 2.7 (Jan '05) to 3.4 (July '07). This is a subtle change, to be sure, but nonetheless interesting.
Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
The 64 bit version of Server2003 was pretty good even in beta. Why use a home computer opertating system like XP when you can't even get better driver support than 2003?
Yes, but does it run on Linux?
The best way to accelerate a windows server is by 9.81 m/s2
..to run `update-manger` and check for new ubuntu release.
have you any idea how much damage this bulldozer would suffer if I just let it roll right over you?
If what the AC said was obviously correct, it was a waste of time, as it was already obvious. Only stuff that are correct, but not obvious, is worth taking notice of.
Picking on people for using name calling is both immature, and a clear sign that the speaker has no real counter-arguments.
Name calling is imply a way to show lack of respect. It is obvious that the previous speaker had no respect for MS Windows, so calling it Windoze was entirely appropriate in that context.
Nothing I will keep using my Slackware 12.0 :]
and What does it mean to you Sir?
Read and Comment at my BLOG
!!!
It means more painful calls at the Help Desk at the campus I work on.... on an OS we don't yet support... which means more headaches. Thanks M$ for forcing so many college students into buying a crappy done OS before the market was ready to handle it.
Give me a productive error over a boring, mundane and unproductive fact any day. ~Anon
That's what SP1 means to me, another 7 years of not using it
and you can download it right here.
Security is one of those properties that either exists or not. Saying that something is "more secure" is saying something like "being a little pregnant"!!! you either have security and nobody can break in or you don't.
SP2 is on its way!!! (hurrah! I never dared to use a brand-new Microsoft product without at least SP2 out).
One more to go.
This means: At least 1 more year until SP2 comes out, only then Vista can be comsidered "released" ! Before that it's a "public beta version" The whole Internet is going to slow down as terrabytes of SP1 clog up the internet.
Privilege Escalation: There have been lots of privilege escalation vulnerabilities in Windows XP. Here is one, now fixed: Highly critical, System access, From remote.
If I sense that I'm being "driven" to Vista, a place I certainly don't want to go, I will jump out of the fuckin vehicle...
APK
its impossible to get any kind of useful discussion about windows products when all you guys can do is post "it dont work right, it sucks!"
first of all, more than half of you i know from experience have no clue at all what you're talking about, you don't know anything about the OS beyond what you see on your screen, read some review on CNET or something, and it dosen't recognize your scanner or something so it 'sucks'
if you have nothing actually ABOUT the topic to contribute other than that you are an idiot who bought vista and dosen't like it, maybe you should just SHUT UP.
also, if you're working in IT and all you can say is 'vista sucks' that basically tells me that you're an IT guy who really dosen't know his job very well (like 80% of them), and gets frustrated very easily dealing with these complex devices we call 'computers'.
Means that I finally CAN THINK of using it in a VMWare container....
What's stopping you using a modern GNU/Linux distro (assuming hardware support)?
It just gets me because a lot of people will tell you that GNU/Linux is great if you don't intend to play the latest games on it (ie, the ones that don't work in wine), but if you just want to browse the web, listen to music, chat to friends, edit images, whatever else you can do with the tons of Free Software available, then its great as long as your hardware is well supported.
Also it means you lose all the overhead from vista, and you get improved security without the Treacherous Computing and DRM rubbish.
"sudo rm -rf your-face"
I hope you come back to read my response, that's one of the reasons I signed up - I'd get e-mailed about responses.
:)
Anyway I don't judge people for simply posting anonymously. There are many that do so for privacy concerns (don't want to register - that's fine), some for the reasons you stated (I considered them myself before signing up - I may have decided wrongly).
Now while most of this discussion has been about this post by the AC, please note that it started with my pointing out the invalidity (and irony) of an AC specifically calling someone else's credibility into question without presenting any rebuttal to his post or relevant subject matter.
Now I'm not calling your review of Twitter's behavior into question, just stating I haven't seen it with my own two eyes yet. If it's possible he's changed since the events you're recalling he deserves a 2nd chance from those he hasn't wronged yet (like me). If he hasn't changed, I'll see it myself eventually.
I appreciate your taking time to respond - it did occur to me that a few of the actual valid AC crowd would misconstrue what I was saying. This gave me a chance to (attempt to) clear that up - I don't mind ACs, I mind when people use AC posting to start a one-sided flame war. Look forward to your posting again, though I'm bummed I won't know who you are.
"wait until SP1 to upgrade to the operating system, a common practice with Windows users."
Well historically speaking, the rule is actually to wait until SP2. MS changed the strategy only since XP/2003, to roll out the good stuff in SP1, in order to try and break the "wait until SP2" rule-of-thumb. I guess it's working, at least the author has forgotten.
Uh... guys? I don't think he was kidding.
First, some news: osdn.com is down.
And some on-topic comment: Vista SP1 means nothing to me because there's no way it can pass validation with the enterprise customers who might ask me to deploy it. Every member of my family that eager to install Vista has already had me roll it back.
And now back to our regularly scheduled flamewar:
It just has to be done carefully, pointed toward obvious flaws and with good humor. I will agree that the Microsoft fanbois seem to have mod points these days -- I'm getting clearly biased downmods all the time. They're still not beating the upmods, though, so I'm winding up with mods like the ones to this post:
I wind up with five votes up, one down. I loose a karma point because funny doesn't count, but usually someone will choose "interesting" to work around this. I get to feel good because the people who liked it enough to burn a mod point outnumbered the people who diliked it that much (and fanbois with modpoints) by a margin of five to one.
In all, I would say the system is working for me but not for twitter. Twitter's an easy target, and twitter posts a lot.
YMMV.
Help stamp out iliturcy.