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Big Box Store Reps Push Unnecessary Recovery Discs
Ed Albro, PC World writes "At PC World, we've got a story today on salespeople at Best Buy and Circuit City pushing consumers to pay the stores' technicians to create recovery discs for their new laptops. Recovery discs are important to have, of course, but the fact is that they're easy to make yourself. Or you can get them from the manufacturer of your PC, often for half of what Best Buy and Circuit City charge you. The salespeople often tell you that you can buy from the manufacturer — but they claim you'll pay twice as much as the stores charge."
I remember when it was commonplace to get a recovery disc along with your computer; now you have to pay (quite a bit) for software that's already on your system. What happened?
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I think this was covered in the story a while back about the ex Circuit City employee who disclosed all their "secrets". It wasn't in the main story, but was in the linked story.
Best Buy and Circuit City are pressuring customers to buy overpriced add ons they don't need? Hogwash!
Cue apologists who think it's moral to screw over the stupid/uninformed because you can make a buck doing it.
Pretty sure that anyone who knows how to make a recovery disk either won't get suckered in, or will purchase it just so they don't have to do it themselves.
The real retail rape is extended warranty.
Never play chicken with a passive aggressive.
If they are lying to the customers, that is bad. But I would imagine most people do not know how to make a recovery CD, painfully easy as it may be. Also, it would be more convenient than contacting the manufacturer for one.
Don't PC makers include a recovery partition for Windows machines?
A salesperson lying to a customer?! That's unpossible!
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
And the sales associate at Fry's, while trying to sell me the extended warranty, said that warranty replacements on the Wii take forever and are expensive because you have to pay to ship to Japan.
He was flat-out lying, as warranties for North American Nintendo sales go through a center in California, and Nintendo pays for the shipping. But the Fry's employee (a department manager nonetheless) insisted that the shipping/replacement costs and delays were a reason to purchase their warranty instead.
Never underestimate the sleazy, underhanded attempts that a salesperson will go through to get your money, especially if they work on any kind of commission. As a corollary, the less knowledge and understanding the salesperson has about the product they are pushing, the more likely they are to be underhanded in their push.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
for the more tech savvy, i recommend making an image of a harddrive after the OS and whatever other programs have been installed. I did this for my mom's new computer; i reloaded XP (it came with vista home or something along those lines), installed all her favorite programs, set them up, did a virus/spyware scan, etc etc. after everything was said and done, i loaded Acronis True Image, made an image, and burned it to a boot-able DVD using their boot image.
So now, if there is some weird software glitch or she installed / uninstalled too much crap, i just tell her to back up all her personal documents, pop the dvd in, reboot the computer and voila. a few screens and clicks later, she's back to how it was when she first got it.
seriously, that little app has saved me so much work and time. (not a slashvertisement! i don't work for them, i swear!)
This sig contains repetition and redundancy.
What people buying from them should do, is, upon being told about the disks and the charge for them, DEMAND they be included free, or they will not buy the computer.
If the salesman refuses, raise hell with his manager. Purchaser gets the disks for free, salesman gets reprimanded (or fired).
Heh.
Given that the people who will buy these disks would almost certainly not make their own, let alone request one from the maker, the question is whether the store price is worth the difference between having and not having one. I'd say it is.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
It's been awhile since I bought any computer equipment from a big box store, so excuse any ignorance, but don't the manufacturers include recovery CDs in the packaging?
Are the big box stores removing the manufacturer's CD from the packaging and either tossing it, or re-selling it? I can't imagine the latter would go over very well with the manufacturers.
I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.
...if you are buying such a disk from them, then you probably don't know how to get one easier/cheaper, so I guess I don't see a problem here. Those with less knowledge in a given domain generally pay more, and are sometimes happy to do so out of convenience.
I was flipping bits on an abacus, newb.
You should get the full os install disks for free you are paying for them and M$ should have them up for download as ISO images that need the key on the system.
I had to download a torrent of XP media center 2005 to run a repair install on a system that I was fixing for some one and they did not get a install disk / restore disk with there system.
Some recovery disks wipe out all of your data.
The thing of it is, 95% of the people that get machines like this don't ever bother creating their restore disks on their own. Granted, it would be better if they did, better still if the OEM's would actually press you a restore disk for the OS you paid for, but unfortunately neither one of those things is likely to happen. Even if the customer ends up paying more on their bottom line for their puchase (hopefully not more than $20), at least they actually have a set of disks. What usually happens is they have nothing, and then when their hard drive dies (remember, not if, but when), they have nothing to restore their machine with, and they end up paying for the restore disks, the shipping costs, and their repair time is delayed by a couple of days at least.
IANAA (apologist) but I don't see it as screwing over, in exchange for some of my time to perform for you a service you deem to have value you give me some of your cash in proportion to the value you perceive. The fact that you see no value in buying the disks because you are educated enough to make them for yourself and you have the time/interest to doesn't mean that everyone else is. One can easily change the oil in their car and I often encourage/train friends how to but I don't see places that offer to change it for you in exchange for a fee as ripping you off.
Most of these in-store warranties are a substitute for your existing warranty, in that you just bring your console into the store, they replace it with one of their retail stock, and they (are supposed to) mark your old console as defective and return it to the vendor as a sales return. So, your turn-around time is a lot faster.
However, in today's era of Internet purchases, this usually partially/fully disconnects you with the stuff you bought on the console. For example, if you replace your 360 in Best Buy, you have to submit documentation to Microsoft detailing this exchange before they'll reimburse you for any purchases for your paid downloads.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Check out this blog post about 27 Confessions of a Former Circuit City Worker.
There's lots of insights about what the deal really is behind extended warranties, backup discs, and such. For example:
10. When buying a PC you will be asked to have a backup DVD made for a charge of $30. This is done through an application found on all computers, sometimes hidden. You could do it yourself for free. Also, it was very common to sell this on Toshiba laptops. Little do the customers know, it's already in the box. So we would charge, and do nothing.
> One thing that slashdotters forget is with MS Windows, don't underestimate the stupidity of the average user.
> Most probably don't even know what a recovery disk is.
I honestly had no idea what a "recovery disk" was until I just googled for it. I've been using computers for over 20 years, and have made a career as a software engineer for the last 12. I've always just had the full OS on disk. I guess that makes me stupid.
There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
Every time I check out of one of these places -- which is not often at all -- I'm invariably offered some kind of extended warranty. When I initially refuse, the cashier usually says something like "You'd really be wise to buy it, these things break all the time."
I respond, "So what you're saying is, this product is a piece of shit and I shouldn't buy it. Check." The look on the cashier's face is always priceless. For a big-ticket item, it's also great to see the sales associate foaming at the mouth because the dumbshit cashier just tanked a sale.
And yeah, I walk right out without buying it. Half the time I never intended to anyway. Hours of amusement, kids!
I remember when you got the whole OS in it full retail box... With manuals no less. Heckpirate., I remember when MS was spouting that getting your manuals was a primary reason not to illegally copy your software.
I hope someone mods this up, especially since there are a lot of folks like me that have ACs auto-modded down.
You're right on the mark. Here's the thing. If you buy warranties on everything you buy that they're offered on, at some point, you will come out ahead on some particular item. A laptop, a refrigerator, a microwave oven, a television, an iPod... Something. And, as the parent post noted, good for you.
However, that thing that you came out ahead on has a nasty way of ingraining itself into your selective memory. You remember that thing that you came out ahead on, because wow, you saved hundreds of dollars. You tend to forget the thousands of dollars you lose $50 to $100 at a time by buying extended warranties that you never need or use.
It's simple psychology, and retail stores are taking advantage of it, along with people's lack of knowledge about computers and their tendency to react to fear, to make billions of dollars a year. Ask any financial expert or consumer advocate and they'll all say the same thing: The only time you should ever purchase a warranty is if you literally cannot function without whatever it is you're buying the warranty for.
Plus, that doesn't take into account the fact that most of the time, it's a lot harder to actually get companies to follow through on their warranties than the salespeople claim it will be. Keep in mind that when companies have to pay out warranties, that's taking money away from them that they had considered pure profit. It's very likely that they'll avoid fulfilling the terms based on some technicality. For example, did you keep all of the original packaging? Even the driver CD? My dad got burned on that one once. He tried to claim an extended warranty repair, and they wouldn't fulfill the warranty because he had thrown away a three-year-old driver disc.
Last, but not least, it may seem like a bargain to buy a $200 five-year extended warranty on a $2000 computer. But in five years, what will that computer really be worth? If you're lucky, maybe $100 on eBay. You can get a replacement cheaper than you can ship the durn thing.
Just don't do it. Take all money you would have spent on extended warranties and put it in a savings account. You'll earn interest on it, and in no time, you'll have enough money in the bank to replace anything like that that you would buy and you'll never need another warranty again.
"At least at Best Buy, however, sales reps are rewarded for selling more products and services through what is informally called a "score card" system, according to a Best Buy employee who asked not to be identified. The employee told me that sales teams that score well receive the opportunity to work longer shifts (and thus make more money)."
Wow I really wish where I worked I had to earn my overtime. Damn that would be sweet. Now I just get overtime for well being just short staffed. Damn I am glad I never took that job at Best Buy, and went for the less lucrative and rewarding job in the IT department.
Selex
Funny, I always just cracked open the case and taped the recovery cd(s) to the inside of the case. Always seemed to save me a lot of headaches finding the exact right installer for that paticular revision machine.
As soon as you get a new PC you should call the manufacturer and request recovery media. If they tell you "it's in the recovery partition" or "you can make a set with our BIOS/Windows utility" demand that you want the recovery media. The worst scenario to be in involves a wrecked partition or hard drive, or burned (not pressed) CDs/DVDs that have disintegrated over time. I was able to get recovery media with my Thinkpad free of charge after I received it; I just called, they confirmed that the laptop was in warranty, and I got it a few days later.
On average, you lose money when you buy insurance regardless of scale. That's, in fact, the whole point of insurance: you pay slightly more than your expected costs up front to negate the risk of unexpected costs greatly in excess of either your expected costs or the insurance cost.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to insure a computer if you are fairly certain (1) you are going to replace it eventually, and (2) you will always have the reserves to replace it at need in an emergency.
OTOH, if may be essential to replace it, and you may not be able to do so out of cash, it may be worth insuring.
on average, that's true of every kind of insurance, regardless of scale. Insurance is worth it (if it is at all) based on the consequences of the potential unexpected downside it protects you against and the degree to which it mitigates that risk, not because you will on average save money with it. Risk is a real cost, even though its monetary value may be highly subjective.
I have one of those 'Universal Recovery Disks', it helps against spyware, virusses, malware or just plain broken hardware and you can still save your data:
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Stores are always overcharging for doing simple things for clueless or busy people. It's not "news". If the market didn't support it, they would lower their price or stop offering it.
/. agenda. That's why these stories keep showing up. No one else cares.
Pissing on the big retailers is part of the
Good heavens Miss Sakamoto - you're beautiful!
Dell provides Ubuntu now. You can also build your own and get no OS on it.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I used to work for Geek Squad. The Restore CD service is really a matter of the convenience. That said, however, they are sold by idiots. I've see some salespeople sell restore cd's when the computer comes with them or cannot be made (toshiba's come with them and certain sony laptops don't allow you to make them). Best Buy does not have commission, it just has idiots. We are pressured to sell every fuckin' thing to the point of making sure the customer is not satisfied. We are chastised for fixing simple problems for free. I had a manager once that said "if it turns on, it's $199." Geek Squad agents are now salespeople, not computer technicians or even tech savvy. Agent Jonny Utah, Geek Squad's remote connection tool, is used for everything to the point of making the in-store agent obsolete at the expense of the customer. Virus removal and other common tasks are becomming more and more automated. I'm trying to get out and I recommend the customers do the same. I can't wait for the day when Geek Squad goes away but as long as that "I'd rather pay someone to do it than learn anything" market continues to come into the store everyday, it's here to stay and most customers will never know that difference. I have so many bad things to say about Geek Squad that I wish I never worked there. It's a bad line on my resume.
This is why Mexicans and Asians try to haggle at Wal-Mart. In their world, everything is negotiable. As it is in professional America.
-OJ
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